I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

On Jun 25, 2:46*pm, "bob" wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

@Bob:

The fire sprinkler system in your apartment is being inspected on an
annual basis by the local AHJ... So a "malfunction" is not very
likely
to occur... You do realize that each individual sprinkler head must
"activate" by having a bi-metal piece or glycerin syringe melt/pop in
order for water to flow from it... It is not a "deluge" type system
unless
it is very very very old or deployed in special situation like a
theatre
stage...

As to turning off the sprinkler system after a fire, the fire
department
will take care of that before they turn the building back over to the
owner during the overhaul...

Well, your new home is much safer than your previous domiciles as
you will not be burnt to death in a fire and have a much longer escape
window during a fire event in a sprinklered building than in one
without...

As to your question about water damage to electronics, that is what
happens when things get soaking wet -- this is many more times
likely to happen from a water leak from a tenant on a floor above you
than from sprinkler leaks or an actual fire... As someone else
stated,
get renter's insurance... There is already a device which will shut
off
power when water logged devices short circuit, it is called a circuit
breaker... However I wouldn't worry that much about it, as during a
serious fire event in a building the fire department generally shuts
off
the power to the building to make the fire fighting operations safer
and
remove electrical short circuiting as a source of ignition...

~~ Evan

On Jun 25, 3:40*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 11:46:20 -0700, "bob" wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

So leave them alone. **

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

No, No! *Speak to your local fire captain at the fire house.

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Get renter's insurance.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

Yes

**

Prisoner tampers with his "apartment" over-head sprinkler and sets it
off. *The smart thinking officer used linens and laundry to make a dam
at his door. *Cell, er "apartment" fills knee deep. Then he looked
like a oil field worker. Many years of dirty water in black pipe.

@Oren:

It is not that the water is dirty, as it is the same water that you
could
drink in most places... It is that during the many years of sitting
in
the black pipe the manganese and other dissolved solids settle out
of solution...

~~ Evan

On 6/25/2011 4:38 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 25, 2:46 pm, wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

@Bob:

The fire sprinkler system in your apartment is being inspected on an
annual basis by the local AHJ... So a "malfunction" is not very
likely
to occur... You do realize that each individual sprinkler head must
"activate" by having a bi-metal piece or glycerin syringe melt/pop in
order for water to flow from it... It is not a "deluge" type system
unless
it is very very very old or deployed in special situation like a
theatre
stage...

As to turning off the sprinkler system after a fire, the fire
department
will take care of that before they turn the building back over to the
owner during the overhaul...

Well, your new home is much safer than your previous domiciles as
you will not be burnt to death in a fire and have a much longer escape
window during a fire event in a sprinklered building than in one
without...

As to your question about water damage to electronics, that is what
happens when things get soaking wet -- this is many more times
likely to happen from a water leak from a tenant on a floor above you
than from sprinkler leaks or an actual fire... As someone else
stated,
get renter's insurance... There is already a device which will shut
off
power when water logged devices short circuit, it is called a circuit
breaker... However I wouldn't worry that much about it, as during a
serious fire event in a building the fire department generally shuts
off
the power to the building to make the fire fighting operations safer
and
remove electrical short circuiting as a source of ignition...

~~ Evan

And, believe it or not. most consumer electronics/PCs (with the possible
exception of of LCD displays), handle getting wet pretty well, as long
as it is not immersed and the water is clean. I've salvaged plenty of
stuff that was left outside, or under an accidental sprinkler discharge.
Unplug, hold upside down to drain, field-strip it, blow it out gently
with an air source, and leave in a sunny window for a day or three. May
have to use a little electronic spray cleaner on any pots or circuit
boards that show water trails, and replace a popped fuse here and there,
but it usually still works.

The odds go down with a sewage leak, or plumbing supply line leak that
came down through drywall and insulation, of course. But my old-school
Sherwood stereo receiver in the other room came out of a dumpster, where
previous owner thought it was ruined because a cat ****ed in it.
Cleaning and new fuses, and it lit right up and sounds fine.

--
aem sends...

On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the
ceiling.

CY: Good!

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I
turn it off
after the fire is out?

CY: No, the landlord or fire department does that.

Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

CY: Different one, which should be padlocked in the open
position.

I?Tm more worry about water damage (to electronics and
computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because I?Tve never had a fire before and
this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

CY: Time to talk to your local fire dept.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers
or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce
short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

CY: Not sure.

Did the cat get electrocuted?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

The odds go down with a sewage leak, or plumbing supply line
leak that
came down through drywall and insulation, of course. But my
old-school
Sherwood stereo receiver in the other room came out of a
dumpster, where
previous owner thought it was ruined because a cat ****ed in
it.
Cleaning and new fuses, and it lit right up and sounds fine.

--
aem sends...

Remove magazine, locking action, and trigger guard.....

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
...


as it is not immersed and the water is clean. I've salvaged
plenty of
stuff that was left outside, or under an accidental
sprinkler discharge.
Unplug, hold upside down to drain, field-strip it,

I think it would help if you explained what field-strip
means here.

On 6/25/2011 8:32 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Did the cat get electrocuted?


Dunno, all I could smell was the cat **** when I opened it up. Washed
the case in the sink, and rinsed the motherboard with tuner cleaner, and
screwed it all back together with fresh fuses, and it worked fine.
Powerful sucker, too- it drives my old walnut Large Advent speakers just
fine. One nice retro stereo.

--
aem sends...

On 6/25/2011 6:39 PM, mm wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 17:25:41 -0400,
wrote:


And, believe it or not. most consumer electronics/PCs (with the possible
exception of of LCD displays), handle getting wet pretty well, as long
as it is not immersed and the water is clean. I've salvaged plenty of
stuff that was left outside, or under an accidental sprinkler discharge.
Unplug, hold upside down to drain, field-strip it,

I think it would help if you explained what field-strip means here.

In this context, it means take it apart as far as you can, and still be
able to put it back together. Take the case off or apart, take out any
boards that are held in place with screws and unpluggable connectors,
pull the knobs off- basically anything that wouldn't take a Real
Electronics Expert (which I am not) to put back together. Use eyes and a
real bright flashlight, and maybe a cheap VOM, to look for any simple
mechanical damage, or contaminant trails that can easily be cleaned out.
Use VOM or flashlight to check fuses, and any solder joints that may
have cracked that can be repaired without specialized tools.

--
aem sends...

On Jun 25, 1:42*pm, Evan wrote:
On Jun 25, 3:40*pm, Oren wrote:





On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 11:46:20 -0700, "bob" wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

So leave them alone. **

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

No, No! *Speak to your local fire captain at the fire house.

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Get renter's insurance.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

Yes

**

Prisoner tampers with his "apartment" over-head sprinkler and sets it
off. *The smart thinking officer used linens and laundry to make a dam
at his door. *Cell, er "apartment" fills knee deep. Then he looked
like a oil field worker. Many years of dirty water in black pipe.

@Oren:

It is not that the water is dirty, as it is the same water that you
could
drink in most places... *It is that during the many years of sitting
in
the black pipe the manganese and other dissolved solids settle out
of solution...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It also will tu rn stagnant, stsink like a sewer and turn black. We
discovered that the day I had a fire in the jail and spinklers
activated. One real mess to clean up. I suppose what happens to it
depends on the local water supply but turn stagnant it will.

Harry K

On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:32:11 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Did the cat get electrocuted?

Probably not. Except for a couple parts near where the cord comes in,
the voltage inside a receiver is about 12DC or lower. Even the 110v
parts are well insulated except for a few solder spots.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Most systems "should" have an inspector's test port. Perhaps
your fire sprinkler repair company can flush out the system.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Harry K" wrote in message
...

It also will tu rn stagnant, stsink like a sewer and turn
black. We
discovered that the day I had a fire in the jail and
spinklers
activated. One real mess to clean up. I suppose what
happens to it
depends on the local water supply but turn stagnant it will.

Harry K

On 06/25/2011 02:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

Typically the sprinkler risers are in the stairwells, with the floor
control valves on each landing. HOWEVER - if you are not a firefighter,
fire marshal, or sprinkler contractor, you probably don't want to touch
those valves, unless you like having legal problems. The valve controls
all the sprinkler for the whole floor, therefore if the fire is out in
your apartment but not in your neighbor's, and you cut the water off,
well, you get the idea.

I too share your concern on a visceral level about having all that
pressurized water in pipes above all my valuables, but honestly, the
sprinkler system is probably better maintained than the domestic water
supply. So long as you don't bust a sprinkler head (it happens,
especially with non-concealed types) you don't have a lot to worry about.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 06/25/2011 05:25 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 6/25/2011 4:38 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 25, 2:46 pm, wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire
damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is the
first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

@Bob:

The fire sprinkler system in your apartment is being inspected on an
annual basis by the local AHJ... So a "malfunction" is not very
likely
to occur... You do realize that each individual sprinkler head must
"activate" by having a bi-metal piece or glycerin syringe melt/pop in
order for water to flow from it... It is not a "deluge" type system
unless
it is very very very old or deployed in special situation like a
theatre
stage...

As to turning off the sprinkler system after a fire, the fire
department
will take care of that before they turn the building back over to the
owner during the overhaul...

Well, your new home is much safer than your previous domiciles as
you will not be burnt to death in a fire and have a much longer escape
window during a fire event in a sprinklered building than in one
without...

As to your question about water damage to electronics, that is what
happens when things get soaking wet -- this is many more times
likely to happen from a water leak from a tenant on a floor above you
than from sprinkler leaks or an actual fire... As someone else
stated,
get renter's insurance... There is already a device which will shut
off
power when water logged devices short circuit, it is called a circuit
breaker... However I wouldn't worry that much about it, as during a
serious fire event in a building the fire department generally shuts
off
the power to the building to make the fire fighting operations safer
and
remove electrical short circuiting as a source of ignition...

~~ Evan

And, believe it or not. most consumer electronics/PCs (with the possible
exception of of LCD displays), handle getting wet pretty well, as long
as it is not immersed and the water is clean. I've salvaged plenty of
stuff that was left outside, or under an accidental sprinkler discharge.
Unplug, hold upside down to drain, field-strip it, blow it out gently
with an air source, and leave in a sunny window for a day or three. May
have to use a little electronic spray cleaner on any pots or circuit
boards that show water trails, and replace a popped fuse here and there,
but it usually still works.

The odds go down with a sewage leak, or plumbing supply line leak that
came down through drywall and insulation, of course. But my old-school
Sherwood stereo receiver in the other room came out of a dumpster, where
previous owner thought it was ruined because a cat ****ed in it.
Cleaning and new fuses, and it lit right up and sounds fine.


Water is clean? you ever smelled water that has been sitting in
sprinkler pipes for a long time? That water is anything *but* clean.
Certainly not "potable" even.

But like I said in my previous post, it's not something that the OP
should be losing sleep over; odds are far higher of having a domestic
water leak than an unneeded sprinkler activation incident.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 06/25/2011 08:30 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the
ceiling.

CY: Good!

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I
turn it off
after the fire is out?

CY: No, the landlord or fire department does that.

Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

CY: Different one, which should be padlocked in the open
position.


That's the old school way. Now they typically have a groove cut in the
stem of the valve which activates a "tamper switch" which reports to the
FA system (and therefore the central station) when someone closes a
normally open valve, or opens a normally closed one.

If you don't have tamper switches, the chain/cable used to lock the
valve open is supposed to have a breakaway but in practice that doesn't
always happen. The key (actually, several sets of keys - including the
ones to access the fire alarm panel, and a master key to the building)
to the lock should be in the key box in the fire control room which the
fire dept. has access to.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 06/26/2011 08:00 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Most systems "should" have an inspector's test port. Perhaps
your fire sprinkler repair company can flush out the system.


Should be tested annually anyway...?

some older systems don't have express drains, so you need some big trash
cans, hoses, etc. to test the system - and that will only flush the
riser not the floor.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote

I too share your concern on a visceral level about having all that
pressurized water in pipes above all my valuables, but honestly, the
sprinkler system is probably better maintained than the domestic water
supply. So long as you don't bust a sprinkler head (it happens,
especially with non-concealed types) you don't have a lot to worry about.

nate

The code in our state (maybe nation?) is that the sprinkler heads have to be
changed every 50 years.

They can go off accidently, but it is very rare. I've seen sprinkler pipes
banged by errant fork lift drivers and nothing happened. Except one time,
many years ago. To guys were done for the day and were racing back to the
charging station. They had the stand up type of lift and were playing
Chariot race, like Ben Hur. One went under a mezzanine with his fork partly
raised and he took out a 3/4" pipe. Lots of water in the storeroom that
night.

At our business, they put in a new system in parts that had no sprinkler and
changed out some 50 year old heads. Never had one go off. The system is
tested twice a year.

Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate


Dry systems are a bitch to maintain and they tend to rust faster than a
wet system due to the oxygen and moisture contained in the pipes. I used
to keep an eye on a system that had two risers and compressors. I can't
tell you how many times I had to scramble to trouble shot a compressor
before it tripped and charged the system. Rust, pin holes, bad
connections... dry systems tend to develop small leaks and the
compressors have to work harder and harder to keep up as the system gets
older. If the diaphragm trips unintentionally due to a drop in pressure
there is always a chance some of the heads may fail due to the hammer
effect.

"Ned Flanders" wrote in message
...
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused
by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate


Dry systems are a bitch to maintain and they tend to rust faster than a
wet system due to the oxygen and moisture contained in the pipes. I used
to keep an eye on a system that had two risers and compressors. I can't
tell you how many times I had to scramble to trouble shot a compressor
before it tripped and charged the system. Rust, pin holes, bad
connections... dry systems tend to develop small leaks and the compressors
have to work harder and harder to keep up as the system gets older. If the
diaphragm trips unintentionally due to a drop in pressure there is always
a chance some of the heads may fail due to the hammer effect.



We have two freeze prone areas at work. They have a glycol system. The
pipes are filled with an anti-freeze solution and there is a reservoir tank
attached to it also in the last heated section. This was recommended by
both the sprinkler company and the insurance carrier.

[snip]

But my old-school
Sherwood stereo receiver in the other room came out of a dumpster, where
previous owner thought it was ruined because a cat ****ed in it.
Cleaning and new fuses, and it lit right up and sounds fine.

I once got a good clock-radio out of a dumpster. It just needed to be
cleaned out because it was full of roach ****.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"christs" don't."

On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 02:19:38 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:32:11 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Did the cat get electrocuted?

Probably not. Except for a couple parts near where the cord comes in,
the voltage inside a receiver is about 12DC or lower. Even the 110v
parts are well insulated except for a few solder spots.

[snip]

Pee is electrically conductive enough to could hurt on 12V.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"christs" don't."

On 6/26/2011 2:12 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 02:19:38 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:32:11 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Did the cat get electrocuted?

Probably not. Except for a couple parts near where the cord comes in,
the voltage inside a receiver is about 12DC or lower. Even the 110v
parts are well insulated except for a few solder spots.

[snip]

Pee is electrically conductive enough to could hurt on 12V.

But it ain't a continuous conductive stream, at least according to
Mythbusters. At least for humans, standing up. Not sure about a cat,
being lower to the ground and all.

--
aem sends...

On 6/25/2011 2:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

I'd get he hell out of there, it's a flood hazard.

On 6/26/2011 9:08 AM, Ned Flanders wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits
caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate


Dry systems are a bitch to maintain and they tend to rust faster than a
wet system due to the oxygen and moisture contained in the pipes. I used
to keep an eye on a system that had two risers and compressors. I can't
tell you how many times I had to scramble to trouble shot a compressor
before it tripped and charged the system. Rust, pin holes, bad
connections... dry systems tend to develop small leaks and the
compressors have to work harder and harder to keep up as the system gets
older. If the diaphragm trips unintentionally due to a drop in pressure
there is always a chance some of the heads may fail due to the hammer
effect.


The dry systems I'm familiar with had compressed air dryers for the
compressors to keep moisture at a minimum. I've repaired many a
compressor and air dryer system. The dry air was to prevent the exact
problems you mentioned. An engineer I was working with on the first
indoor cooling tower type setup in The Southeast, bumped a sprinkler
head with his hardhat and lucky for us it simply leaked so I tend to
believe the things are quite tough as far as resisting water hammer.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/26/2011 9:08 AM, Ned Flanders wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it
off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater
or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits
caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler
heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if
that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an
eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment
building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate


Dry systems are a bitch to maintain and they tend to rust faster than a
wet system due to the oxygen and moisture contained in the pipes. I used
to keep an eye on a system that had two risers and compressors. I can't
tell you how many times I had to scramble to trouble shot a compressor
before it tripped and charged the system. Rust, pin holes, bad
connections... dry systems tend to develop small leaks and the
compressors have to work harder and harder to keep up as the system gets
older. If the diaphragm trips unintentionally due to a drop in pressure
there is always a chance some of the heads may fail due to the hammer
effect.


The dry systems I'm familiar with had compressed air dryers for the
compressors to keep moisture at a minimum. I've repaired many a
compressor and air dryer system. The dry air was to prevent the exact
problems you mentioned. An engineer I was working with on the first
indoor cooling tower type setup in The Southeast, bumped a sprinkler
head with his hardhat and lucky for us it simply leaked so I tend to
believe the things are quite tough as far as resisting water hammer.

TDD


Around here, all new dry fire suppression systems must be tested for a
minimum delay from when the sprinkler head is tripped to when the water
starts spraying at the furthest head. This testing guarantees the system
will be wet inside. Blow the lines all you want but you will never get
all of the moisture out.

On 6/26/2011 9:57 PM, Ned Flanders wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/26/2011 9:08 AM, Ned Flanders wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it
off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater
or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits
caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler
heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if
that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed
air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an
eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment
building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate


Dry systems are a bitch to maintain and they tend to rust faster than a
wet system due to the oxygen and moisture contained in the pipes. I used
to keep an eye on a system that had two risers and compressors. I can't
tell you how many times I had to scramble to trouble shot a compressor
before it tripped and charged the system. Rust, pin holes, bad
connections... dry systems tend to develop small leaks and the
compressors have to work harder and harder to keep up as the system gets
older. If the diaphragm trips unintentionally due to a drop in pressure
there is always a chance some of the heads may fail due to the hammer
effect.


The dry systems I'm familiar with had compressed air dryers for the
compressors to keep moisture at a minimum. I've repaired many a
compressor and air dryer system. The dry air was to prevent the exact
problems you mentioned. An engineer I was working with on the first
indoor cooling tower type setup in The Southeast, bumped a sprinkler
head with his hardhat and lucky for us it simply leaked so I tend to
believe the things are quite tough as far as resisting water hammer.

TDD


Around here, all new dry fire suppression systems must be tested for a
minimum delay from when the sprinkler head is tripped to when the water
starts spraying at the furthest head. This testing guarantees the system
will be wet inside. Blow the lines all you want but you will never get
all of the moisture out.


I suppose I should have written that the air dryers minimize the
introduction of more moisture from the compressed air source. I'm
curious as to how often the time to spray water has to be tested?
Is it a one time certification or is it an annual test? I know the
guys from the fire protection company don't want water pooling in
the unheated warehouse sprinkler systems so I don't what their
procedures are but I've taken automotive antifreeze and blown it
through pneumatic systems that were freezing up in cold weather.
If it was extremely critical, I'm sure they could blow denatured
alcohol through the system to get rid of residual water like I've
done on some pneumatic systems. I'll have to ask one of the guys
about it. I guess a fire would melt an ice plug? :-)

TDD

On Jun 25, 2:46*pm, "bob" wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?


Sprinkler heads go off one at a time. It's not like the movies where
a fire by one head makes the whole room rain. Only the heads that get
hot enough will start spraying. If that happens you'll be glad they
did.

They don't trip accidentaly. BUT! They are pretty delicate when it
comes to being bumped, and they dump an impressive amount of water
when they go off. So you do want to be VERY careful when near them.
I've seen people hang a clothes hanger on them with disastrous
results, or your kids could toss a frisbee, etc. You'll be liable for
the damage if you cause it.

On Jun 25, 2:46*pm, "bob" wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

Yes, you could certainly install a water sensing device that would
kill the power to the machines, but you might want to place it as
close to the spinkler head as possible.

If you placed it on the floor (where most water sensing alarms are
usually placed) your systems would probably already be wet by the time
the sensor sensed the water.

You could also place your equipment in racks with a "roof" to keep the
water off of the equipment, but you'd have to deal with ventilation so
that the roof didn't keep the heat in. That could, ironically, cause a
fire! ;-)

Of course, once the fire department crashes through the window with
hoses a-blazing and waters down your whole apartment, all bets are off
as far as keeping your equipment dry.

All that said, if you are that concerned about your equipment, I'll
assume that you already employ off site back-up storage for your data.
You can try and protect the systems from water, but if the fire itself
wipes out the back-up media stored in the shoe box in the hall closet,
you're just as out of luck.

On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 17:58:11 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if that
worries you.

thanks for pointing this out. I used to wonder about that. Wondered
how the other heads knew to start. Now I see that they don't.

P&?M?

Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

On Jun 25, 2:46*pm, "bob" wrote:
If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

No. You cannot control the sprinklers. They are controlled at a
central location in the apartment building, on a floor-by-floor basis,
or a building-by-building basis, depending on the size of the
building.

You don't want some idiot turning off his sprinklers out of some
misguided notion that his electronic toys are worth more than human
lives.

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

That's the risk you run. Make sure you have renter's insurance that
covers all your stuff. Keep important papers in a water-tight fire
safe. Keep backups of your important data off site.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

There are some devices designed to protect against basement flooding.
However, they may not work if it's just "raining." Also, even if your
computer is off, if it gets wet, you can forget about ever using it
again.

On Jun 26, 9:18*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

They can go off accidently, but it is very rare. *I've seen sprinkler pipes
banged by errant fork lift drivers and nothing happened. *

Maybe if you bang the pipes, but if you hit the head there's a good
chance.

I've seen it happen several times, once in a hotel room where somebody
hung a clothes hanger on the head. (Doh!)

That little glass piece is fragile - it handles a good compressive
load but any sideways pressure will trip it, and an impressive amount
of water will come out.

On Jun 26, 12:51*am, Harry K wrote:
On Jun 25, 1:42*pm, Evan wrote:



On Jun 25, 3:40*pm, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jun 2011 11:46:20 -0700, "bob" wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

So leave them alone. **

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

No, No! *Speak to your local fire captain at the fire house.

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than fire
damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is the first
time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Get renter's insurance.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

Yes

**

Prisoner tampers with his "apartment" over-head sprinkler and sets it
off. *The smart thinking officer used linens and laundry to make a dam
at his door. *Cell, er "apartment" fills knee deep. Then he looked
like a oil field worker. Many years of dirty water in black pipe.

@Oren:

It is not that the water is dirty, as it is the same water that you
could
drink in most places... *It is that during the many years of sitting
in
the black pipe the manganese and other dissolved solids settle out
of solution...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It also will tu rn stagnant, stsink like a sewer and turn black. *We
discovered that the day I had a fire in the jail and spinklers
activated. *One real mess to clean up. *I suppose what happens to it
depends on the local water supply but turn stagnant it will.

Harry K

@Harry K:

Definitely sounds to me like some sort of neglect on the part
of the jail has gone on here... Your sprinkler system should
be having at least annual flow tests -- where inspector test
valves in each zone are opened to determine the responsiveness
of the water flow sensors for each zone (which can go bad) as
well as each supervised zone valve being exercised from fully
opened to fully closed and back to open to test the tamper
switches...

If your water in your sprinkler system expires and smells
like sewage after only 12 months then there are local
water quality issues at play -- if your sprinkler system
is being fed from a potable water supply... Some regions
of the country maintain a separate system for fire hydrants
and sprinkler mains which is NOT potable and your system
might be connected to such a water supply...

Generally even good treated water in a sprinkler main will
have the manganese dioxide (fine gritty black powder)
precipitate out of solution from sitting a year in the pipe...
It is better to rinse any of the powder down the nearest
drain with clean water than to wait and try to sweep it
up once it is dry...

~~ Evan

On Jun 26, 9:06*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 02:46 PM, bob wrote:

I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

Typically the sprinkler risers are in the stairwells, with the floor
control valves on each landing. *HOWEVER - if you are not a firefighter,
fire marshal, or sprinkler contractor, you probably don't want to touch
those valves, unless you like having legal problems. *The valve controls
all the sprinkler for the whole floor, therefore if the fire is out in
your apartment but not in your neighbor's, and you cut the water off,
well, you get the idea.

I too share your concern on a visceral level about having all that
pressurized water in pipes above all my valuables, but honestly, the
sprinkler system is probably better maintained than the domestic water
supply. *So long as you don't bust a sprinkler head (it happens,
especially with non-concealed types) you don't have a lot to worry about.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

@Nate:

What you are discussing in the stairwells is NOT the sprinkler riser
pipe but merely the fire hose standpipe riser which is an entirely
separate feed down the the fire pump room in the building (and in
some buildings the riser pipes are dry and require a fire pumper
truck to hook up at the external connection point after the engine
has established a water supply from a fire hydrant to feed water
into them) to allow the fire crews to obtain water to fight fires on
the upper levels without having to drag hoses in from the ground
floor...

Typical fire hose standpipe risers are 4" to 6" in size... The main
sprinkler piping in a building is generally 8" (small building) or
better with main supply pipes serving large sections of the building
being at least 12"...

~~ Evan

On Jun 26, 9:11*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:



On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

+1 to what Nate said...

The expenses involved in all the additional sensors as well as the
special valves that each "dry zone" needs as well as the dedicated
air compressor for each zone required and emergency power to feed
it are enough of a barrier to reserve the use of "dry sprinkler"
systems
to sections of a building where environmental concerns like freezing
temperatures are a factor in the fire protection system design like
loading dock areas, parking areas and entry ways and stairwells
which are unheated...

~~ Evan

On Jun 26, 11:24*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 6/26/2011 9:57 PM, Ned Flanders wrote:



The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/26/2011 9:08 AM, Ned Flanders wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it
off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater
or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits
caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler
heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if
that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed
air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an
eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment
building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate

Dry systems are a bitch to maintain and they tend to rust faster than a
wet system due to the oxygen and moisture contained in the pipes. I used
to keep an eye on a system that had two risers and compressors. I can't
tell you how many times I had to scramble to trouble shot a compressor
before it tripped and charged the system. Rust, pin holes, bad
connections... dry systems tend to develop small leaks and the
compressors have to work harder and harder to keep up as the system gets
older. If the diaphragm trips unintentionally due to a drop in pressure
there is always a chance some of the heads may fail due to the hammer
effect.

The dry systems I'm familiar with had compressed air dryers for the
compressors to keep moisture at a minimum. I've repaired many a
compressor and air dryer system. The dry air was to prevent the exact
problems you mentioned. An engineer I was working with on the first
indoor cooling tower type setup in The Southeast, bumped a sprinkler
head with his hardhat and lucky for us it simply leaked so I tend to
believe the things are quite tough as far as resisting water hammer.

TDD

Around here, all new dry fire suppression systems must be tested for a
minimum delay from when the sprinkler head is tripped to when the water
starts spraying at the furthest head. This testing guarantees the system
will be wet inside. Blow the lines all you want but you will never get
all of the moisture out.

I suppose I should have written that the air dryers minimize the
introduction of more moisture from the compressed air source. I'm
curious as to how often the time to spray water has to be tested?
Is it a one time certification or is it an annual test? I know the
guys from the fire protection company don't want water pooling in
the unheated warehouse sprinkler systems so I don't what their
procedures are but I've taken automotive antifreeze and blown it
through pneumatic systems that were freezing up in cold weather.
If it was extremely critical, I'm sure they could blow denatured
alcohol through the system to get rid of residual water like I've
done on some pneumatic systems. I'll have to ask one of the guys
about it. I guess a fire would melt an ice plug? :-)

TDD

+1 to the fire melting the ice plug...

Although you would want to take every effort to prevent the ice
plug from forming as ice is pretty strong and can do interesting
things in pipes with the sprinkler heads installed facing downwards...
So it is more of a maintenance issue for preventing the heads
from blowing out and causing a nuisance discharge...

~~ Evan

On 06/29/2011 02:28 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 26, 9:06 am, Nate wrote:
On 06/25/2011 02:46 PM, bob wrote:

I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits caused by
water when the device is powered.

Typically the sprinkler risers are in the stairwells, with the floor
control valves on each landing. HOWEVER - if you are not a firefighter,
fire marshal, or sprinkler contractor, you probably don't want to touch
those valves, unless you like having legal problems. The valve controls
all the sprinkler for the whole floor, therefore if the fire is out in
your apartment but not in your neighbor's, and you cut the water off,
well, you get the idea.

I too share your concern on a visceral level about having all that
pressurized water in pipes above all my valuables, but honestly, the
sprinkler system is probably better maintained than the domestic water
supply. So long as you don't bust a sprinkler head (it happens,
especially with non-concealed types) you don't have a lot to worry about.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

@Nate:

What you are discussing in the stairwells is NOT the sprinkler riser
pipe but merely the fire hose standpipe riser which is an entirely
separate feed down the the fire pump room in the building (and in
some buildings the riser pipes are dry and require a fire pumper
truck to hook up at the external connection point after the engine
has established a water supply from a fire hydrant to feed water
into them) to allow the fire crews to obtain water to fight fires on
the upper levels without having to drag hoses in from the ground
floor...

Typical fire hose standpipe risers are 4" to 6" in size... The main
sprinkler piping in a building is generally 8" (small building) or
better with main supply pipes serving large sections of the building
being at least 12"...

~~ Evan

Around here generally the floor control valves and the hose valves are
tapped off the same pipe, or at least that's what I'm used to seeing.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 6/29/2011 1:39 PM, Evan wrote:
On Jun 26, 11:24 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 6/26/2011 9:57 PM, Ned Flanders wrote:



The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/26/2011 9:08 AM, Ned Flanders wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it
off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater
or is
there a different one?

I’m more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers) than
fire damage. Perhaps because I’ve never had a fire before and this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits
caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler
heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if
that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed
air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an
eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment
building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate

Dry systems are a bitch to maintain and they tend to rust faster than a
wet system due to the oxygen and moisture contained in the pipes. I used
to keep an eye on a system that had two risers and compressors. I can't
tell you how many times I had to scramble to trouble shot a compressor
before it tripped and charged the system. Rust, pin holes, bad
connections... dry systems tend to develop small leaks and the
compressors have to work harder and harder to keep up as the system gets
older. If the diaphragm trips unintentionally due to a drop in pressure
there is always a chance some of the heads may fail due to the hammer
effect.

The dry systems I'm familiar with had compressed air dryers for the
compressors to keep moisture at a minimum. I've repaired many a
compressor and air dryer system. The dry air was to prevent the exact
problems you mentioned. An engineer I was working with on the first
indoor cooling tower type setup in The Southeast, bumped a sprinkler
head with his hardhat and lucky for us it simply leaked so I tend to
believe the things are quite tough as far as resisting water hammer.

TDD

Around here, all new dry fire suppression systems must be tested for a
minimum delay from when the sprinkler head is tripped to when the water
starts spraying at the furthest head. This testing guarantees the system
will be wet inside. Blow the lines all you want but you will never get
all of the moisture out.

I suppose I should have written that the air dryers minimize the
introduction of more moisture from the compressed air source. I'm
curious as to how often the time to spray water has to be tested?
Is it a one time certification or is it an annual test? I know the
guys from the fire protection company don't want water pooling in
the unheated warehouse sprinkler systems so I don't what their
procedures are but I've taken automotive antifreeze and blown it
through pneumatic systems that were freezing up in cold weather.
If it was extremely critical, I'm sure they could blow denatured
alcohol through the system to get rid of residual water like I've
done on some pneumatic systems. I'll have to ask one of the guys
about it. I guess a fire would melt an ice plug? :-)

TDD

+1 to the fire melting the ice plug...

Although you would want to take every effort to prevent the ice
plug from forming as ice is pretty strong and can do interesting
things in pipes with the sprinkler heads installed facing downwards...
So it is more of a maintenance issue for preventing the heads
from blowing out and causing a nuisance discharge...

~~ Evan

I could have sworn I've seen the sprinkler heads pointing up in a lot of
warehouses and industrial buildings. It could be for protecting them
from the goofy forklift driver of for making sure no residual water
collects in them and freezes. Once again, I'll have to ask one of the
guys from the Fire Protection company. It makes sense to do that in an
unheated building and I have seen different designs for the little metal
umbrella so there is probably one designed just for the upturned head.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/26/2011 9:57 PM, Ned Flanders wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/26/2011 9:08 AM, Ned Flanders wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
On 06/25/2011 06:58 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 6/25/2011 1:46 PM, bob wrote:
I live in an apartment with several fire sprinkler in the ceiling.

If the sprinkler goes off due to fire or malfunction, can I turn it
off
after the fire is out? Is it the same valve near the water heater
or is
there a different one?

Im more worry about water damage (to electronics and computers)
than
fire damage. Perhaps because Ive never had a fire before and
this is
the first time I moved to a place with fire sprinklers.

Alternately, is there a switch to cut off power to computers or
other
devices when it senses water? This would reduce short-circuits
caused by
water when the device is powered.

It's not like in the movies and TV where you see all the sprinkler
heads
start spraying water at the same time. It doesn't work like that if
that
worries you. Only the sprinkler head tripped by flames releases
water.
Many systems are dry, meaning there is no water, only compressed
air in
the pipes which keeps the main water valve shut until a sprinkler
head
is activated by fire. The wet pipe systems have to be drained to
flush
them out on a regular basis to keep crud out of them, the dry systems
don't have that problem and the maintenance folks have to keep an
eye on
the air pressure in the system which is usually remotely monitored
through the alarm system. If you are in a multi-floor apartment
building
, each floor may have a maintenance closet where there is a valve for
your floor.

TDD

Dry systems are typically only used where ther eis a risk of freezing.
The vast majority of residential sprinklers are wet pipe.

nate


Dry systems are a bitch to maintain and they tend to rust faster than a
wet system due to the oxygen and moisture contained in the pipes. I
used
to keep an eye on a system that had two risers and compressors. I can't
tell you how many times I had to scramble to trouble shot a compressor
before it tripped and charged the system. Rust, pin holes, bad
connections... dry systems tend to develop small leaks and the
compressors have to work harder and harder to keep up as the system
gets
older. If the diaphragm trips unintentionally due to a drop in pressure
there is always a chance some of the heads may fail due to the hammer
effect.


The dry systems I'm familiar with had compressed air dryers for the
compressors to keep moisture at a minimum. I've repaired many a
compressor and air dryer system. The dry air was to prevent the exact
problems you mentioned. An engineer I was working with on the first
indoor cooling tower type setup in The Southeast, bumped a sprinkler
head with his hardhat and lucky for us it simply leaked so I tend to
believe the things are quite tough as far as resisting water hammer.

TDD


Around here, all new dry fire suppression systems must be tested for a
minimum delay from when the sprinkler head is tripped to when the water
starts spraying at the furthest head. This testing guarantees the system
will be wet inside. Blow the lines all you want but you will never get
all of the moisture out.


I suppose I should have written that the air dryers minimize the
introduction of more moisture from the compressed air source. I'm
curious as to how often the time to spray water has to be tested?

Just once when the system is installed. After that it just has to be
serviced by a licensed fire protection co.

Is it a one time certification or is it an annual test? I know the
guys from the fire protection company don't want water pooling in
the unheated warehouse sprinkler systems so I don't what their
procedures are but I've taken automotive antifreeze and blown it
through pneumatic systems that were freezing up in cold weather.
If it was extremely critical, I'm sure they could blow denatured
alcohol through the system to get rid of residual water like I've
done on some pneumatic systems. I'll have to ask one of the guys
about it. I guess a fire would melt an ice plug? :-)

In the 17 years I lived there both systems tripped many times due to
malfunctions, accidental contact, vandalism, and car fires. Keeping the
pipes dry would have been a hell of a challenge.

After a watching the fire prevention company a few times. I could pretty
much have the system drained and compressor back up and running.

All they had left to do was blow out the low points one final time, shut
the main valve from the city water, drain the diaphragm check valve and
pressurize it from the sprinkler side, open the valve to the city water,
and sign off on it.

One time the malfunction was caused by a flaw in a seam of a pipe. The
pin hole got progressively bigger until the compressor could not keep
up. The system tripped (naturally on the weekend). By the time the fire
prevention guys got there on the Monday the small hole was about a
centimetre in diameter and the water was gushing out.