I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

"Mel Knight" wrote in message
...
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

I'd first want to know who owns the pole. Does the power company own it or
the telephone company? If it's located on your property, there should be an
easement. It's also possible that if it's been there long enough, the owner
has a right of way

On Jan 12, 7:54*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Mel Knight" wrote in message

...

I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me..

Do you have any experience in this area?

I'd first want to know who owns the pole. Does the power company own it or
the telephone company? If it's located on your property, there should be an
easement. It's also possible that if it's been there long enough, the owner
has a right of way

An old girlfriend's father had a similar situation where there was no
easement, the pole had been there for years, and he still managed to
get them to move the line. Unfortunately he's no longer around so I
can't ask him how he managed to do it.

R

On 1/12/2011 7:45 PM, Mel Knight wrote:
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

Standard disclaimer- IANAL.
Having said that- sometimes easements for utility right-of-ways are
recorded against the subdivision when it is first platted out, and do
not get spelled out in detail on all the individual land deeds,
especially when the deed is a 'lot number' deed rather than a complete
traditional description. Title company reports are often incomplete,
since they are mainly looking for open liens and competing ownership
claims and such. Too bad most areas are no longer offering abstracts
(and in fact buying up and destroying old abstracts) when property
changes hands these days. There is a reason mortgage companies require
title insurance, in case something like this crawls out of the woodwork.

You or an expert you hire needs to go down to whatever unit of
government (usually the county, but sometimes the township) keeps the
property books for your area. If there was an easement, it will be
recorded somewhere. Unless you live in an older urban area, odds are you
won't have to go back too far. Walk up and down the run of wire, and
look for data plates on the poles. In this part of country, they often
include a year on them. That will give you a place to start backward from.

Unless the pole is causing you problems and/or there is no recorded
easement, what they will probably do is offer you a token sum to sign an
easement and waive the right to sue to make them remove the pole. It is
possible that some installation crew just dropped a pole there because
that is the route they needed to take, and assumed an easement was in
place, because the route was on the work order. If there is no easement,
you could force them to reroute the line (or try to), but whoever lives
at the end of it may then want to get involved, and try to claim an
easement by open and notorious usage or something.

So how mad are you? Is it worth hiring lawyers over? And how long has
the pole been there?

--
aem sends...

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:48:42 -0500, aemeijers wrote:
So how mad are you? Is it worth hiring lawyers over? And how long has
the pole been there?

I'm not mad. I just don't want poles and wires crossing my property if I
don't have to have it so.

My first inclination is to just tell them to remove it.

My second inclination is to see what they offer (but unless it's on the
order of tens of thousands of dollars, I'll default to my first
inclination).

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I gave the PG&E guys the pole number but there is no date or other
identifying information in this part of the country (California) on the
poles out here.

On Jan 12, 6:45*pm, Mel Knight wrote:
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

How long have you lived there???

What kind of area is this? What matters is not whether there is a pole
(or anything else) on the report. What matters is whether there is an
easement on the property. In many residential areas EVERY property has
an easement, in which case, they can pretty much put a pole there if
they feel like it...

You don't say specifically, but do I gather from your wording that you
bought this property recently without noticing the pole?

In article ,
Mel Knight wrote:



I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).


I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

On Jan 12, 11:29*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
*Mel Knight wrote:

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

Maybe he didn't notice the pole going up because he was looking down
at his dirt.

R

On Jan 13, 12:34*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 12, 11:29*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

*Mel Knight wrote:

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

Maybe he didn't notice the pole going up because he was looking down
at his dirt.

R

if they are phone wires try calling the phone company with pole number

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:15:39 -0800, Larry Fishel wrote:
You don't say specifically, but do I gather from your wording that you
bought this property recently without noticing the pole?

Yes. I bought the property within the year. It's rural. There's not
another home within hundreds of yards, and it's all wooded. The pole is
near the main street (within the easement of the main road) but the wires
cut over my property.

There are other poles, but their wires go along the street, and I assume
the main street easement covers the poles. My property goes to the center
of each of the streets but the street easements go side to side some
thirty feet.

The pole is within the street easements (but I don't know if the street
easements allow for poles) but the wires go over my property where there
is no easement.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:29:03 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

It's rural. And hilly. And very forested. Lots of acres.

BTW, I didn't "think" to notice the pole. The pole is near the street.
The wires cross the property near the border. The recent survey clued me
in to the fact that the wires were actually on my property.

It's more I didn't think about it than I didn't "see" it.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:00:12 -0800, wrote:
if they are phone wires try calling the phone company with pole number

I did. The phone company says they "rent" the poles from the power
company. It's the power company I've been talking to for all this time.

I could go back and tell the phone company to remove "their rent" from
the pole, I guess.

That's an option. Thanks. I didn't really think of that. Maybe they can
put pressure on the power company then to remove their pole.

That's a good idea. That's the kind of ideas I was looking for.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:05:10 -0800, hr(bob) wrote:
How long have you lived there???

six months

Mel Knight wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:00:12 -0800, wrote:
if they are phone wires try calling the phone company with pole number

I did. The phone company says they "rent" the poles from the power
company. It's the power company I've been talking to for all this time.

I could go back and tell the phone company to remove "their rent" from
the pole, I guess.

That's an option. Thanks. I didn't really think of that. Maybe they can
put pressure on the power company then to remove their pole.

That's a good idea. That's the kind of ideas I was looking for.


What's it hurting, first?

Second, what did the attorney that handled the property purchase have to
say as far as what are the local/state ordinances in effect regarding
easements (you _did_ have an attorney, didn't you)?

--

Mel Knight wrote in
:

I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that
cross the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told
me to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine)
and what I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell
me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

The problem may be serious for you in that if or when you ever want to
sell the property you will have to disclose the existence of the wires
across the property to prospective buyers. Some buyers may make removal
of the wires a condition of sale and you will then need to correct it
under pressure of sale and time. So get it fixed now or settle the issue
while there is no rush.

The best first step is to write a letter to the power company telling
them of the wires and requiring them to relocate the poles in such a way
that the wires do not cross your property. It is most likely that they
will make you a cash offer for the right to leave the wires in place. You
then decide whether it is a small enough issue that it is worth it to
accept the cash. Best to consult with a lawyer about the ramifications of
leaving the wires in place. If you take the cash you will be stuck with
the wires forever and so will future buyers of the property.

Maybe even ask the lawyer if you have recourse on the people who sold you
the property with the wires and did not disclose it to you. Whether they
knew about them or not, they probably signed something to the effect that
there were no encumberances or some such things. Maybe it is their
responsibility to get the wires removed.

On 1/12/2011 7:45 PM, Mel Knight wrote:
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?


One time the phone company ran poles and wires across quite a large part
of a farmers field. After it was there for a while and in service, the
farmer went out late at night with a shotgun where the wires hung the
lowest and blasted it to bits. News reported thousands and thousands of
phones stopped working. The repair crew found the fault and in a day or
two or three ran a new cable along the road on existing poles about 5
extra miles around the farmers field.

I suppose you would probably get caught using that solution unless there
is no one within a mile or so of your property.

In article ,
Mel Knight wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:29:03 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

It's rural. And hilly. And very forested. Lots of acres.

BTW, I didn't "think" to notice the pole. The pole is near the street.
The wires cross the property near the border. The recent survey clued me
in to the fact that the wires were actually on my property.

It's more I didn't think about it than I didn't "see" it.

I guess your assumption that the pole is "illegal" is rather bold, then.
You bought a rural, hilly, forested, many-acre plot of land 6 months
ago, and you just now noticed a power pole out by the street, whose
attached wires transgress your airspace in one corner of your kingdom.
Hmm. Next you'll be finding illegal gopher holes, I'm sure.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:58:34 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
I guess your assumption that the pole is "illegal" is rather bold
Hmm. Next you'll be finding illegal gopher holes, I'm sure.

My assumption is based on the fact that there is no underlying easement
that allows that pole and it's overhanging wires.

I just got off the phone with the title company who said I can submit a
claim to them if PG&E refuses to move the pole and if I have a use for
the land under the wires.

I spoke earlier with PG&E who said only that if the pole has no easement
then they will ask me what I want to do to correct the situation (they
were extremely vague).

I was just looking for ideas of how best to handle this from you guys.
And, if anyone knows the value of a "power line easement", that they
would tell me their experience (I have no idea if it's worth one dollar
or one hundred thousand dollars, for example).

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 20:02:14 +0000 (UTC), Mel Knight
wrote Re Just had a strange conversation with PG&E about an
illegal pole on my property:

I was just looking for ideas of how best to handle this from you guys.
And, if anyone knows the value of a "power line easement", that they
would tell me their experience (I have no idea if it's worth one dollar
or one hundred thousand dollars, for example).

The value of the easement is determined by what "enjoyment" of your
land is lost by the presence of the pole & lines. IOW, how are you
inconvenienced by their presence? The more "enjoyment" you forgo, the
more costly the easement.

Since you didn't really notice (any negative impact) for several
months, be prepared for PGE to argue that it doesn't have much of an
impact on you.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On 1/13/2011 10:05 AM, dpb wrote:
Mel Knight wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:00:12 -0800, wrote:
if they are phone wires try calling the phone company with pole number

I did. The phone company says they "rent" the poles from the power
company. It's the power company I've been talking to for all this time.

I could go back and tell the phone company to remove "their rent" from
the pole, I guess.
That's an option. Thanks. I didn't really think of that. Maybe they
can put pressure on the power company then to remove their pole.
That's a good idea. That's the kind of ideas I was looking for.


What's it hurting, first?

Second, what did the attorney that handled the property purchase have to
say as far as what are the local/state ordinances in effect regarding
easements (you _did_ have an attorney, didn't you)?

--
Not everyplace uses attorneys for property purchases. Around here, the
contracts are all take-it-or-leave-it pre-printed boilerplate, so an
attorney is pointless. They will NOT make changes. It's a regional thing.

--
aem sends...

"Mel Knight" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:58:34 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
I guess your assumption that the pole is "illegal" is rather bold
Hmm. Next you'll be finding illegal gopher holes, I'm sure.

My assumption is based on the fact that there is no underlying easement
that allows that pole and it's overhanging wires.

I just got off the phone with the title company who said I can submit a
claim to them if PG&E refuses to move the pole and if I have a use for
the land under the wires.

I spoke earlier with PG&E who said only that if the pole has no easement
then they will ask me what I want to do to correct the situation (they
were extremely vague).

I was just looking for ideas of how best to handle this from you guys.
And, if anyone knows the value of a "power line easement", that they
would tell me their experience (I have no idea if it's worth one dollar
or one hundred thousand dollars, for example).


Easement cost can very widely. As a rule of thumb you might use one fourth
of the value of the land. The pole is in the street and okay. Moving the
wires is not going to cost much so the power co. is unlikely to want to pay
for an easement. You can ask nicely that they move them and they probably
will. Might mean that they will add a anchor to that pole you don't like.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:42:36 -0500, aemeijers wrote:
Not everyplace uses attorneys for property purchases.

In California, it's almost unheard of to have an attorney present when
you purchase a home. Dunno why. Just is.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 03:12:40 +0000 (UTC), Mel Knight
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:42:36 -0500, aemeijers wrote:
Not everyplace uses attorneys for property purchases.

In California, it's almost unheard of to have an attorney present when
you purchase a home. Dunno why. Just is.
Ameicans have atorneys involved in just about anything else - why not
a real estate transaction - quite possibly the largest investment of
your life????

On 1/13/2011 11:07 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 03:12:40 +0000 (UTC), Mel
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:42:36 -0500, aemeijers wrote:
Not everyplace uses attorneys for property purchases.

In California, it's almost unheard of to have an attorney present when
you purchase a home. Dunno why. Just is.
Ameicans have atorneys involved in just about anything else - why not
a real estate transaction - quite possibly the largest investment of
your life????

Because in most states, unless it is a private person-to-person sale,
you have a Realtor (c) or two involved. They have boilerplate contracts
they have to use, or lose their membership or something. And the title
transfer houses (which seem to be a ******* cross between a lawyer and a
bank) are in on the racket. I showed the paperwork to a lawyer buddy of
mine, and he said just go with the flow. Beyond getting their massive
cut for a few hours work, they aren't interested in screwing the buyers.

Given that the canned contract is written in stone, a lawyer simply adds
no value. Not like a commercial real estate deal, where you are starting
with a blank piece of paper, and everything is negotiable. All the
realtors use exactly the same forms, and they all act like they were
handed down from God.

Now, the house I bought in Louisiana did involve a lawyer, but he didn't
do anything more than the title company here in Michigan did. His clerk
made up the canned paperwork (at least not a pre-printed form), he
signed his name a few times, and made a couple hundred bucks. And in
both states, of course, they tacked on all sorts of meaningless junk
fees just because they could. I think I ran through half a pad of checks
that day, and I'm pretty sure one was for the pizza that was getting
delivered as I left.

Next time, I think I'm gonna try paying with a briefcase full of cash.
Of course, the feds would be after me within hours if I did that. Or a
FSBO sale, with the exchange taking place at a bank.

--
aem sends...

On 1/13/2011 11:07 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 03:12:40 +0000 (UTC), Mel
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:42:36 -0500, aemeijers wrote:
Not everyplace uses attorneys for property purchases.

In California, it's almost unheard of to have an attorney present when
you purchase a home. Dunno why. Just is.
Ameicans have atorneys involved in just about anything else - why not
a real estate transaction - quite possibly the largest investment of
your life????

Thats one of the problems. Simple things became intentionally way too
complicated because of powerful lobbies. Just consider most legislators
are lawyers.

It gets really tiring hearing government folks asking "are you a lawyer"
as a roadblock when you are researching properties etc at the local
courthouse.

Same exact deal with taxes. Get rid of all of the tax forms and
accounting procedures, exemptions, credits whatever and replace it with
a flat tax based on consumption with exemption for basic stuff such as
food much the same way sales taxes are applied.

On 1/13/2011 11:22 PM, aemeijers wrote:
On 1/13/2011 11:07 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 03:12:40 +0000 (UTC), Mel
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 18:42:36 -0500, aemeijers wrote:
Not everyplace uses attorneys for property purchases.

In California, it's almost unheard of to have an attorney present when
you purchase a home. Dunno why. Just is.
Ameicans have atorneys involved in just about anything else - why not
a real estate transaction - quite possibly the largest investment of
your life????

Because in most states, unless it is a private person-to-person sale,
you have a Realtor (c) or two involved. They have boilerplate contracts
they have to use, or lose their membership or something. And the title
transfer houses (which seem to be a ******* cross between a lawyer and a
bank) are in on the racket. I showed the paperwork to a lawyer buddy of
mine, and he said just go with the flow. Beyond getting their massive
cut for a few hours work, they aren't interested in screwing the buyers.


Same for person to person. I bought a property directly from the owner.
We had to go to a title company where they use the same standardized
forms that everyone must use.


Given that the canned contract is written in stone, a lawyer simply adds
no value. Not like a commercial real estate deal, where you are starting
with a blank piece of paper, and everything is negotiable. All the
realtors use exactly the same forms, and they all act like they were
handed down from God.

Now, the house I bought in Louisiana did involve a lawyer, but he didn't
do anything more than the title company here in Michigan did. His clerk
made up the canned paperwork (at least not a pre-printed form), he
signed his name a few times, and made a couple hundred bucks. And in
both states, of course, they tacked on all sorts of meaningless junk
fees just because they could. I think I ran through half a pad of checks
that day, and I'm pretty sure one was for the pizza that was getting
delivered as I left.

Next time, I think I'm gonna try paying with a briefcase full of cash.
Of course, the feds would be after me within hours if I did that. Or a
FSBO sale, with the exchange taking place at a bank.

On Jan 13, 6:38*am, Mel Knight wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:29:03 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

It's rural. And hilly. And very forested. Lots of acres.

BTW, I didn't "think" to notice the pole. The pole is near the street.
The wires cross the property near the border. The recent survey clued me
in to the fact that the wires were actually on my property.

It's more I didn't think about it than I didn't "see" it.

Not clear here but it "sounds" like the pole is on the public ROW and
only the wires cross the property. That would complicate the
'easement' problem as you have lost no useable land and the wires
probably do not affect your use of the property in any reasonable way.

We recently had a case here where the local power company wanted to
replace a power line crossing a field with a "High Line". Original
easement was in the 40s for the usual type construction (wood pole,
not all that higher, etc.). Power co thought they could just replace
the line with huge steel towers, very tall and multiple conductors
for very high voltage feed to a substation. Nope. That prevented the
land owner from using aerial application of pesticides and
fertilyzers. End result was they had to repurchas the ROW at a very
high cost.

Harry K

Later down thread people are talking about 'moving the wires'. That
will obviously mean moving the pole no matter where it is located.

I spoke earlier with PG&E who said only that if the pole has no easement
then they will ask me what I want to do to correct the situation (they
were extremely vague).

I was just looking for ideas of how best to handle this from you guys.
And, if anyone knows the value of a "power line easement", that they
would tell me their experience (I have no idea if it's worth one dollar
or one hundred thousand dollars, for example).


The way to 'handle' the situation is to first determine that there is
indeed no easement. If there isn't then ask/require them to move the wires.
That's what they want you to do. The hassle and cost of determining that
there is no easement is all your's. If you don't do that they have no
problem at all, just some complaining from you, so why should they do
anything?

Moving the wires would require at least relocating one pole, maybe adding
one pole. Estimate $1,000 for materials and 4 hours of equipment at
$100/hr, 2 men for 4 hours = 8 manhours at $50/hour and it may cost them
about $1800 to move the wires. They could offer you half that, $900, to
save themselves the trouble. They would have additional expense of legal
and title fees to ensure any easement that buys them is properly done. So
they would not be any money ahead if they offered you $900. To make it
better from their standpoint they may offer much less. I doubt you'd get
much over the $500 to $1,000 range. If I was them I'd just move the wires
and have it done with - a lot less office time and bother. They won't do
anything at all though if you don't start the process.

On Jan 13, 10:40*am, Mel Knight wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 06:00:12 -0800, wrote:
if they are phone wires try calling the phone company with pole number

I did. The phone company says they "rent" the poles from the power
company. It's the power company I've been talking to for all this time.

I could go back and tell the phone company to remove "their rent" from
the pole, I guess.

That's an option. Thanks. I didn't really think of that. Maybe they can
put pressure on the power company then to remove their pole.

That's a good idea. That's the kind of ideas I was looking for.

You said the poles are on an easement its just the wire thats a
problem.. lots of luck on this


Jimmie

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:02:44 +0000, Reno wrote:
They won't do anything at all though if you don't start the
process.

I loved your analysis. Since it's not in the tens of thousands range,
I'll stick with the "please remove it".

The title company and I have determined there is no underlying easement
(although the pole itself is covered by the roadway easement).

So, I'll write them a letter, telling them the pole and wires have no
underlying easement and that we need to "discuss" the matter. They will
probably counter with the pole having an easement but the wires not
having an easement - and then we'll see what happens.

Thanks for all the ideas. This is wholly new stuff to me!

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:35:18 -0800, Harry K wrote:
it "sounds" like the pole is on the public ROW and
only the wires cross the property.

Yup. Most likely (according to the title company).

you have lost no useable land and the wires probably do not
affect your use of the property in any reasonable way.

According to the title company, that's not an issue (of course, that's up
to the courts to decide). The title company said that I could put in a
"claim" to them if it costs me money to relocate the wires, if they
"missed" an easement, or if I have costs associated with an easement that
they missed.

Since there is no easement (that we know of), then I'm expecting the
power company to relocate the wires. Where or how they relocate them
isn't my issue as long as it's not over my property.

I didn't see this reply until now, but, the title company didn't say
anything about losing "use of the land", so, I hope that's not a factor.

Thanks for the ideas!

On Jan 12, 9:43 pm, Mel Knight wrote:

I'm not mad. I just don't want poles and wires crossing my property if I
don't have to have it so.

My first inclination is to just tell them to remove it.

My second inclination is to see what they offer (but unless it's on the
order of tens of thousands of dollars, I'll default to my first
inclination).

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I gave the PG&E guys the pole number but there is no date or other
identifying information in this part of the country (California) on the
poles out here.


On Jan 14, 9:59*pm, Mel Knight wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:35:18 -0800, Harry K wrote:
it "sounds" like the pole is on the public ROW and
only the wires cross the property.

Yup. Most likely (according to the title company).

you have lost no useable land and the wires probably do not
affect your use of the property in any reasonable way.

According to the title company, that's not an issue (of course, that's up
to the courts to decide). The title company said that I could put in a
"claim" to them if it costs me money to relocate the wires, if they
"missed" an easement, or if I have costs associated with an easement that
they missed.

Since there is no easement (that we know of), then I'm expecting the
power company to relocate the wires. Where or how they relocate them
isn't my issue as long as it's not over my property.

I didn't see this reply until now, but, the title company didn't say
anything about losing "use of the land", so, I hope that's not a factor.

Thanks for the ideas!


Sadly what you want and what the law allows are two totally
separate things...

1. Did you purchase this house with the wires already routed
over/across/through the back yard?

(If you did and you are complaining about it now, rather than
at the time of sale when you should have asked about it, is
like complaining that there is an increase of traffic on a rail
spur line that abuts your property... The rail line [in your
case a pole and wires] existed before you owned the property
and the appropriate time for your objection has come and
gone and if you want it moved at this point you would have
to pay for all of the costs involved with that because you
failed to do your bona fides and properly determine that the
wire in dispute had no specific easement prior to purchase...)

2. How long have you owned the property in question?

3. How far into your property do the wires extend?

(Zoning law usually prohibits zero-lot line construction, so
you will own land that you can not build on, if the wires
cross an un-buildable portion of your site because of the
setback requirements, then you have no loss or damage
that you can claim...)

Are you really willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars
filing a lawsuit in land court over this with a lawyer who
specializes in such cases over a wire which slightly crosses
over your "land" near a utility/roadway ROW? If you lose
the case you will have to pay the legal costs of the utility
companies and that can be much more than you will
spend on your lawyers...

You should have brought up this objection at the time you
purchased the property prior to the close of the sale...
You bought into it knowing that the wires were there without
obtaining any actual proof that no easement existed...
Like Harry K. mentioned above you have no reasonable
impact or hindrance on your use of the lot... The "preference"
to not have wires crossing over your land is something that
if you want to realize is something that you will have to
pay for... $10,000 for a crew to relocate the poles and wires
needed to move them from over your lot to fully exercise
what may be non-existant "air rights" (how tall are structures
allowed to be on your lot by zoning law) is something
which you would need to pay the full cost for...

$10,000 to relocate the pole and wires is a sure thing...
Or you could pay that as a retainer for a lawyer to take
on your case and see ballooning legal fees and endure
a two year wait before your land court case goes to trial...

Remember the title insurance will cover you for actual
costs to deal with this issue AFTER THE FACT... Do
you really want to be paying commercial interest rates
on a loan you took to pay off your legal costs and wait
MORE months while you deal with the title insurance
claim before you are reimbursed?

Good Luck...

My advice is to just "lump it" and deal with the wires
where they are... You could be opening a Pandora's
Box where you quickly lose control over what you
have put into motion... All because you would rather
not have a wire intrude into your yard...

~~ Evan

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 21:26:43 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:

On Jan 12, 9:43 pm, Mel Knight wrote:

I'm not mad. I just don't want poles and wires crossing my property if I
don't have to have it so.

My first inclination is to just tell them to remove it.

My second inclination is to see what they offer (but unless it's on the
order of tens of thousands of dollars, I'll default to my first
inclination).

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I gave the PG&E guys the pole number but there is no date or other
identifying information in this part of the country (California) on the
poles out here.


On Jan 14, 9:59*pm, Mel Knight wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:35:18 -0800, Harry K wrote:
it "sounds" like the pole is on the public ROW and
only the wires cross the property.

Yup. Most likely (according to the title company).

you have lost no useable land and the wires probably do not
affect your use of the property in any reasonable way.

According to the title company, that's not an issue (of course, that's up
to the courts to decide). The title company said that I could put in a
"claim" to them if it costs me money to relocate the wires, if they
"missed" an easement, or if I have costs associated with an easement that
they missed.

Since there is no easement (that we know of), then I'm expecting the
power company to relocate the wires. Where or how they relocate them
isn't my issue as long as it's not over my property.

I didn't see this reply until now, but, the title company didn't say
anything about losing "use of the land", so, I hope that's not a factor.

Thanks for the ideas!


Sadly what you want and what the law allows are two totally
separate things...

1. Did you purchase this house with the wires already routed
over/across/through the back yard?

(If you did and you are complaining about it now, rather than
at the time of sale when you should have asked about it, is
like complaining that there is an increase of traffic on a rail
spur line that abuts your property... The rail line [in your
case a pole and wires] existed before you owned the property
and the appropriate time for your objection has come and
gone and if you want it moved at this point you would have
to pay for all of the costs involved with that because you
failed to do your bona fides and properly determine that the
wire in dispute had no specific easement prior to purchase...)

2. How long have you owned the property in question?

3. How far into your property do the wires extend?

(Zoning law usually prohibits zero-lot line construction, so
you will own land that you can not build on, if the wires
cross an un-buildable portion of your site because of the
setback requirements, then you have no loss or damage
that you can claim...)

Are you really willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars
filing a lawsuit in land court over this with a lawyer who
specializes in such cases over a wire which slightly crosses
over your "land" near a utility/roadway ROW? If you lose
the case you will have to pay the legal costs of the utility
companies and that can be much more than you will
spend on your lawyers...

You should have brought up this objection at the time you
purchased the property prior to the close of the sale...
You bought into it knowing that the wires were there without
obtaining any actual proof that no easement existed...
Like Harry K. mentioned above you have no reasonable
impact or hindrance on your use of the lot... The "preference"
to not have wires crossing over your land is something that
if you want to realize is something that you will have to
pay for... $10,000 for a crew to relocate the poles and wires
needed to move them from over your lot to fully exercise
what may be non-existant "air rights" (how tall are structures
allowed to be on your lot by zoning law) is something
which you would need to pay the full cost for...

$10,000 to relocate the pole and wires is a sure thing...
Or you could pay that as a retainer for a lawyer to take
on your case and see ballooning legal fees and endure
a two year wait before your land court case goes to trial...

Remember the title insurance will cover you for actual
costs to deal with this issue AFTER THE FACT... Do
you really want to be paying commercial interest rates
on a loan you took to pay off your legal costs and wait
MORE months while you deal with the title insurance
claim before you are reimbursed?

Good Luck...

My advice is to just "lump it" and deal with the wires
where they are... You could be opening a Pandora's
Box where you quickly lose control over what you
have put into motion... All because you would rather
not have a wire intrude into your yard...

Does the utility have a right of way easement for their wires that
come to your buildings?
Where is this right of way easement recorded and what is the exact
language it uses?
Where does this public easement for the road begin and end and what
does it specifically allow/disallow?
Where does the "meets and bounds" survey you bought the land with show
this easement? If no "meets and bounds" where is the subdivision plat
recorded and what is in the recorded covenants?

The above checks may provide you with an answer to some of your
uncertainties.
--
Mr.E

First, I see you changed your question to say the pole is not on your
property. Therefore, I must ask if the lines go over your property.
Since it sounds like you have a large piece of rural land, you know
the title company is involved, and have been there only a year, the
property survey markers may still be in place or you can find them
again with the survey that came with your closing papers. Determine
if the lines are actually over your property.
If the lines are over your property and no easement was in your
closing papers or is on your title, you have a suit for trespass and
to eject the lines from your property. Had you your own lawyer at
closing (which everyone should do even if the custom is to not), they
would have either caught this or would continue to represent you now.
Since you didn't, contact your realtor (not the seller's realtor) for
information on how to proceed.

On Jan 15, 6:47*am, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 21:26:43 -0800 (PST), Evan





wrote:
On Jan 12, 9:43 pm, Mel Knight wrote:

I'm not mad. I just don't want poles and wires crossing my property if I
don't have to have it so.

My first inclination is to just tell them to remove it.

My second inclination is to see what they offer (but unless it's on the
order of tens of thousands of dollars, I'll default to my first
inclination).

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I gave the PG&E guys the pole number but there is no date or other
identifying information in this part of the country (California) on the
poles out here.

On Jan 14, 9:59 pm, Mel Knight wrote:
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:35:18 -0800, Harry K wrote:
it "sounds" like the pole is on the public ROW and
only the wires cross the property.

Yup. Most likely (according to the title company).

you have lost no useable land and the wires probably do not
affect your use of the property in any reasonable way.

According to the title company, that's not an issue (of course, that's up
to the courts to decide). The title company said that I could put in a
"claim" to them if it costs me money to relocate the wires, if they
"missed" an easement, or if I have costs associated with an easement that
they missed.

Since there is no easement (that we know of), then I'm expecting the
power company to relocate the wires. Where or how they relocate them
isn't my issue as long as it's not over my property.

I didn't see this reply until now, but, the title company didn't say
anything about losing "use of the land", so, I hope that's not a factor.

On Jan 15, 9:47*am, "
wrote:
First, I see you changed your question to say the pole is not on your
property. *Therefore, I must ask if the lines go over your property.
Since it sounds like you have a large piece of rural land, you know
the title company is involved, and have been there only a year, the
property survey markers may still be in place or you can find them
again with the survey that came with your closing papers. *Determine
if the lines are actually over your property.
If the lines are over your property and no easement was in your
closing papers or is on your title, you have a suit for trespass and
to eject the lines from your property. *Had you your own lawyer at
closing (which everyone should do even if the custom is to not), they
would have either caught this

How in the world would a lawyer involved in a routine closing know
about overhead utility wires that slightly overhang a property from
a pole that is on an easement? The OP himself didn't notice them
for 6+ months.


or would continue to represent you now.

Sure, for additional money. It wasn't the responsibility of the
lawyer
to go out and do a visual inspection or survey to determine what is
encroaching on the property. If the overhead wires position was
shown clearly on a survey, then MAYBE you could get the lawyer to
own up to it. It could be the title
company's headache, if the wires actually do go over the property
without an easement. Also possible they've been there for 50 years
and then, depending on state law, who knows.....


Since you didn't, contact your realtor (not the seller's realtor) for
information on how to proceed.


What makes you think he even has a realtor? And why would you go
to a realtor, who isn't licensed to practice law, for legal advice?

Mel Knight wrote:
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that
cross the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told
me to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine)
and what I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell
me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

We need more information. Will the pole burn (i.e., creosoted timber) or is
it metal?

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 06:07:22 -0800, trader4 wrote:
Start of the process with a letter that is a lie.
Where is the lie?

There is no easement for the pole that I know of. The only possible
(maybe even probable) easement is the road ROW which I don't have so I
don't know what the road ROW is. The pole is definitely on my property.

As for the wires, there is no underlying easement for it either. That the
title company is certain of because, unlike the pole, there is no
easement whatsoever under the area where the wires to the neighbor's
house are routed.

Where, may I ask, is the lie you speak of?

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 13:16:02 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
We need more information. Will the pole burn (i.e., creosoted timber) or
is it metal?

Creosoted timber.

Why do you ask?