I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

"Mel Knight" wrote in message
...
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

I'd first want to know who owns the pole. Does the power company own it or
the telephone company? If it's located on your property, there should be an
easement. It's also possible that if it's been there long enough, the owner
has a right of way

On Jan 12, 7:54*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Mel Knight" wrote in message

...

I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me..

Do you have any experience in this area?

I'd first want to know who owns the pole. Does the power company own it or
the telephone company? If it's located on your property, there should be an
easement. It's also possible that if it's been there long enough, the owner
has a right of way

An old girlfriend's father had a similar situation where there was no
easement, the pole had been there for years, and he still managed to
get them to move the line. Unfortunately he's no longer around so I
can't ask him how he managed to do it.

R

On 1/12/2011 7:45 PM, Mel Knight wrote:
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

Standard disclaimer- IANAL.
Having said that- sometimes easements for utility right-of-ways are
recorded against the subdivision when it is first platted out, and do
not get spelled out in detail on all the individual land deeds,
especially when the deed is a 'lot number' deed rather than a complete
traditional description. Title company reports are often incomplete,
since they are mainly looking for open liens and competing ownership
claims and such. Too bad most areas are no longer offering abstracts
(and in fact buying up and destroying old abstracts) when property
changes hands these days. There is a reason mortgage companies require
title insurance, in case something like this crawls out of the woodwork.

You or an expert you hire needs to go down to whatever unit of
government (usually the county, but sometimes the township) keeps the
property books for your area. If there was an easement, it will be
recorded somewhere. Unless you live in an older urban area, odds are you
won't have to go back too far. Walk up and down the run of wire, and
look for data plates on the poles. In this part of country, they often
include a year on them. That will give you a place to start backward from.

Unless the pole is causing you problems and/or there is no recorded
easement, what they will probably do is offer you a token sum to sign an
easement and waive the right to sue to make them remove the pole. It is
possible that some installation crew just dropped a pole there because
that is the route they needed to take, and assumed an easement was in
place, because the route was on the work order. If there is no easement,
you could force them to reroute the line (or try to), but whoever lives
at the end of it may then want to get involved, and try to claim an
easement by open and notorious usage or something.

So how mad are you? Is it worth hiring lawyers over? And how long has
the pole been there?

--
aem sends...

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:48:42 -0500, aemeijers wrote:
So how mad are you? Is it worth hiring lawyers over? And how long has
the pole been there?

I'm not mad. I just don't want poles and wires crossing my property if I
don't have to have it so.

My first inclination is to just tell them to remove it.

My second inclination is to see what they offer (but unless it's on the
order of tens of thousands of dollars, I'll default to my first
inclination).

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I gave the PG&E guys the pole number but there is no date or other
identifying information in this part of the country (California) on the
poles out here.

What kind of area is this? What matters is not whether there is a pole
(or anything else) on the report. What matters is whether there is an
easement on the property. In many residential areas EVERY property has
an easement, in which case, they can pretty much put a pole there if
they feel like it...

You don't say specifically, but do I gather from your wording that you
bought this property recently without noticing the pole?

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:15:39 -0800, Larry Fishel wrote:
You don't say specifically, but do I gather from your wording that you
bought this property recently without noticing the pole?

Yes. I bought the property within the year. It's rural. There's not
another home within hundreds of yards, and it's all wooded. The pole is
near the main street (within the easement of the main road) but the wires
cut over my property.

There are other poles, but their wires go along the street, and I assume
the main street easement covers the poles. My property goes to the center
of each of the streets but the street easements go side to side some
thirty feet.

The pole is within the street easements (but I don't know if the street
easements allow for poles) but the wires go over my property where there
is no easement.

In article ,
Mel Knight wrote:



I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).


I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

On Jan 12, 11:29*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
*Mel Knight wrote:

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

Maybe he didn't notice the pole going up because he was looking down
at his dirt.

R

On Jan 13, 12:34*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 12, 11:29*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

*Mel Knight wrote:

I don't know how long the pole and wires have been there. The creosote
looks still wet, so I'd say about a year or two (compared to other
poles).

I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

Maybe he didn't notice the pole going up because he was looking down
at his dirt.

R

if they are phone wires try calling the phone company with pole number

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:29:03 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

It's rural. And hilly. And very forested. Lots of acres.

BTW, I didn't "think" to notice the pole. The pole is near the street.
The wires cross the property near the border. The recent survey clued me
in to the fact that the wires were actually on my property.

It's more I didn't think about it than I didn't "see" it.

In article ,
Mel Knight wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:29:03 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

It's rural. And hilly. And very forested. Lots of acres.

BTW, I didn't "think" to notice the pole. The pole is near the street.
The wires cross the property near the border. The recent survey clued me
in to the fact that the wires were actually on my property.

It's more I didn't think about it than I didn't "see" it.

I guess your assumption that the pole is "illegal" is rather bold, then.
You bought a rural, hilly, forested, many-acre plot of land 6 months
ago, and you just now noticed a power pole out by the street, whose
attached wires transgress your airspace in one corner of your kingdom.
Hmm. Next you'll be finding illegal gopher holes, I'm sure.

On Jan 13, 6:38*am, Mel Knight wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:29:03 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
I'm just curious, how much land do you have, that a pole could go
unnoticed for a year or two? I'm inclined to say a man shouldn't have
any more dirt than he can keep an eye on.

It's rural. And hilly. And very forested. Lots of acres.

BTW, I didn't "think" to notice the pole. The pole is near the street.
The wires cross the property near the border. The recent survey clued me
in to the fact that the wires were actually on my property.

It's more I didn't think about it than I didn't "see" it.

Not clear here but it "sounds" like the pole is on the public ROW and
only the wires cross the property. That would complicate the
'easement' problem as you have lost no useable land and the wires
probably do not affect your use of the property in any reasonable way.

We recently had a case here where the local power company wanted to
replace a power line crossing a field with a "High Line". Original
easement was in the 40s for the usual type construction (wood pole,
not all that higher, etc.). Power co thought they could just replace
the line with huge steel towers, very tall and multiple conductors
for very high voltage feed to a substation. Nope. That prevented the
land owner from using aerial application of pesticides and
fertilyzers. End result was they had to repurchas the ROW at a very
high cost.

Harry K

Later down thread people are talking about 'moving the wires'. That
will obviously mean moving the pole no matter where it is located.

On Jan 12, 6:45*pm, Mel Knight wrote:
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

How long have you lived there???

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 20:05:10 -0800, hr(bob) wrote:
How long have you lived there???

six months

Mel Knight wrote in
:

I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that
cross the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told
me to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine)
and what I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell
me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

The problem may be serious for you in that if or when you ever want to
sell the property you will have to disclose the existence of the wires
across the property to prospective buyers. Some buyers may make removal
of the wires a condition of sale and you will then need to correct it
under pressure of sale and time. So get it fixed now or settle the issue
while there is no rush.

The best first step is to write a letter to the power company telling
them of the wires and requiring them to relocate the poles in such a way
that the wires do not cross your property. It is most likely that they
will make you a cash offer for the right to leave the wires in place. You
then decide whether it is a small enough issue that it is worth it to
accept the cash. Best to consult with a lawyer about the ramifications of
leaving the wires in place. If you take the cash you will be stuck with
the wires forever and so will future buyers of the property.

Maybe even ask the lawyer if you have recourse on the people who sold you
the property with the wires and did not disclose it to you. Whether they
knew about them or not, they probably signed something to the effect that
there were no encumberances or some such things. Maybe it is their
responsibility to get the wires removed.

On 1/12/2011 7:45 PM, Mel Knight wrote:
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that cross
the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told me
to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine) and what
I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell me.

Do you have any experience in this area?


One time the phone company ran poles and wires across quite a large part
of a farmers field. After it was there for a while and in service, the
farmer went out late at night with a shotgun where the wires hung the
lowest and blasted it to bits. News reported thousands and thousands of
phones stopped working. The repair crew found the fault and in a day or
two or three ran a new cable along the road on existing poles about 5
extra miles around the farmers field.

I suppose you would probably get caught using that solution unless there
is no one within a mile or so of your property.

First, I see you changed your question to say the pole is not on your
property. Therefore, I must ask if the lines go over your property.
Since it sounds like you have a large piece of rural land, you know
the title company is involved, and have been there only a year, the
property survey markers may still be in place or you can find them
again with the survey that came with your closing papers. Determine
if the lines are actually over your property.
If the lines are over your property and no easement was in your
closing papers or is on your title, you have a suit for trespass and
to eject the lines from your property. Had you your own lawyer at
closing (which everyone should do even if the custom is to not), they
would have either caught this or would continue to represent you now.
Since you didn't, contact your realtor (not the seller's realtor) for
information on how to proceed.

On Jan 15, 9:47*am, "
wrote:
First, I see you changed your question to say the pole is not on your
property. *Therefore, I must ask if the lines go over your property.
Since it sounds like you have a large piece of rural land, you know
the title company is involved, and have been there only a year, the
property survey markers may still be in place or you can find them
again with the survey that came with your closing papers. *Determine
if the lines are actually over your property.
If the lines are over your property and no easement was in your
closing papers or is on your title, you have a suit for trespass and
to eject the lines from your property. *Had you your own lawyer at
closing (which everyone should do even if the custom is to not), they
would have either caught this

How in the world would a lawyer involved in a routine closing know
about overhead utility wires that slightly overhang a property from
a pole that is on an easement? The OP himself didn't notice them
for 6+ months.


or would continue to represent you now.

Sure, for additional money. It wasn't the responsibility of the
lawyer
to go out and do a visual inspection or survey to determine what is
encroaching on the property. If the overhead wires position was
shown clearly on a survey, then MAYBE you could get the lawyer to
own up to it. It could be the title
company's headache, if the wires actually do go over the property
without an easement. Also possible they've been there for 50 years
and then, depending on state law, who knows.....


Since you didn't, contact your realtor (not the seller's realtor) for
information on how to proceed.


What makes you think he even has a realtor? And why would you go
to a realtor, who isn't licensed to practice law, for legal advice?

Mel Knight wrote:
I just found what appears to be an illegal power pole with telephone
lines (yes, a power pole, with telephone lines) on my property that
cross the property but do not serve my home.

The title company report shows nothing of the sort.

After a week on the phone (off and on) with PG&E, they just now told
me to write a letter stating the 'conflict' (their words, not mine)
and what I'd like the resolution to be.

When I asked what are the available 'resolutions' they wouldn't tell
me.

Do you have any experience in this area?

We need more information. Will the pole burn (i.e., creosoted timber) or is
it metal?

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 13:16:02 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
We need more information. Will the pole burn (i.e., creosoted timber) or
is it metal?

Creosoted timber.

Why do you ask?

Mel Knight wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 13:16:02 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
We need more information. Will the pole burn (i.e., creosoted
timber) or is it metal?

Creosoted timber.

Why do you ask?

You should take it upon yourself to dig a fire-break around the pole
(wink-wink) to prevent it from catching fire by spontaneous compubstion
(nudge-nudge), lightning strike (know-what-I mean, know-what-I-mean), or
(God forbid!) arson (giggle, giggle), the wire won't tumble down on your
property.