My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors disappear.
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides, they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:56:56 -0500, aemeijers wrote:

On 11/22/2010 8:17 PM, Cory wrote:
My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors disappear.
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides, they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks


Does your state have a scrap dealer law, where they have to check ID and
keep a record, like pawnshops do? I'd suggest a press release about the
problem, and a flyer mailed to all the scrap dealers in the area. 'Big
Brother Is Watching', etc. If you can get a local TV station to do a
piece about it, that would be great, too. Most stations are always
looking for filler pieces for slow news days.

That's an excellent idea. They did exactly this, here, regarding compressors
last spring. Evidently there was a rash of compressor thefts, particularly
from new builds. The state went around to all the scrap dealers and collected
the names they could, then publicized the hell out of the operation.

A coat of pink paint on the bases could help. It did wonders when I ran
the tool crib on an apartment construction site. Will they spring for a
big die saying 'property of State of XXX- anyone buying this item is
subject to arrest for receiving stolen property' ? Whack that into each
reflector as it is installed. (or if you have a hydraulic press back at
the shop, have the new guy do it assembly-line fashion- it makes a much
cleaner image.)

Basically what you need to do is go after where they are disposing of
them, since there are only a few of those, and they aren't mobile. If
the harvesters can't sell them, they won't steal them, once they catch on.

Yep. Make sure the scrap yards all know what the consequences are for
accepting stolen property.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:17:23 -0500, "Cory" wrote:

My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors disappear.
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides, they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks


Have your state use reflective tape. Skip the reflectors. Tape rails
and be done with it for a few years.

Reflective tape can be bought inter agency in the state, maybe. Made
by prisoners?

On Nov 22, 8:17*pm, "Cory" wrote:
My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors disappear..
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides, they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks


LOL... Its called Mig-Welding... Make sure the fasteners are of
the same material -- in this case aluminum -- and then when the
assembly is put together tack everything into place with beads of
mig-welding on all the fasteners to prevent them from being removed...

Those guard rail things are meant to stay assembled when they get
put together, so if little aluminum add-on posts are being unbolted
weld the damn bolts in place after you put them on so no one with
a pair of pliers can unbolt them...

Someone who is stealing these sort of things will need a vehicle
with a lot of cargo capacity -- so you should suggest that the state
troopers review traffic camera footage looking at pick up trucks
that enter the highway empty but leave with a lot of stuff in the
back...

~~ Evan

On Nov 23, 1:17*am, "Cory" wrote:
My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors disappear..
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides, they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks

If they are secured to a flat surface, glue them on and additional
security screws or snap rivets. You can get bolts with heads that can
be snapped off leaving a hemispherical head that can't be gripped.
The corresponding nuts are similar.
The problem with all these things except the glue is the existance of
battery powered angle grinders.
You're lucky that's all they steal. Here in the UK is copper cable.
Regardless of the voltage.

After reading the others replies, I think the longest term solution is
to take a couple troopers, and go visit the local scrap yards. When
the scrap yards stop buying, the thieves will stop, we hope.

Are the guard rails metal, or concrete?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Cory" wrote in message
...
My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with
what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new
reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors
mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one
coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16"
head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on
dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors
disappear.
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this
is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top
wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the
lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the
lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides,
they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people
hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

After reading the others replies, I think the longest term solution is
to take a couple troopers, and go visit the local scrap yards. When
the scrap yards stop buying, the thieves will stop, we hope.


We should all be happy we don't live in Beijing. My friend there says
people steal the manhole covers all the time, and it can be months
before they're replaced. In the meantime, no effort is made to cordon
off the hole.

On Nov 23, 8:41*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
After reading the others replies, I think the longest term solution is
to take a couple troopers, and go visit the local scrap yards. When
the scrap yards stop buying, the thieves will stop, we hope.

Are the guard rails metal, or concrete?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org


That will only work in that one state... A determined and organized
thief will continue to steal and simply take them to a less strict
scrap yard or will shred the metal first and sell it bulk in
containers
where it is unrecognizable as something which is stolen and should
not be recycled...

Taking the time to weld the fasteners in place to retain the
reflectors
to the guard rail will require the thieves to carry additional
equipment
which will demonstrate a clear intent to steal as they would need a
grinder or a torch to remove the welded fasteners... This will make
finding the thieves easier in the long run as it isn't something which
can be done out of a little Honda hatchback...

~~ Evan

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:17:23 -0500, "Cory" wrote:

My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted
on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one
coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head.
The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on
dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors
disappear.
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is
a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides,
they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people
hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks


Have your state use reflective tape. Skip the reflectors. Tape rails
and be done with it for a few years.

Reflective tape can be bought inter agency in the state, maybe. Made
by prisoners?


Retro reflective tape is what is used on the 4"x8" aluminum. Just putting
the tape on the guardrail will not do it. On the end of the guardrail,
there is retro reflective tape. Back side of reflector has red, front side
either has white or yellow, depending which side of the road they are to be
placed. They must be facing traffic for the tape to be effective. These are
made in house. The prisoners put the bodies on the new dump trucks, and set
up the plow units.

The idea is to delineate the travel lanes, in "hopes" of keeping the
traveling motorists on the highway. The lane & edge lines are already
painted with highly reflective epoxy.

Personally, I think the state is going overboard to help keep people on the
road. Some people should not be driving, period.

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...


Anti tamper fasteners maybe

Thanks, and this is what they are now looking into.

On 11/23/2010 3:08 AM, Evan wrote:
On Nov 22, 8:17 pm, wrote:
My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors disappear.
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides, they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks


LOL... Its called Mig-Welding... Make sure the fasteners are of
the same material -- in this case aluminum -- and then when the
assembly is put together tack everything into place with beads of
mig-welding on all the fasteners to prevent them from being removed...

Those guard rail things are meant to stay assembled when they get
put together, so if little aluminum add-on posts are being unbolted
weld the damn bolts in place after you put them on so no one with
a pair of pliers can unbolt them...

Someone who is stealing these sort of things will need a vehicle
with a lot of cargo capacity -- so you should suggest that the state
troopers review traffic camera footage looking at pick up trucks
that enter the highway empty but leave with a lot of stuff in the
back...

~~ Evan

Dunno where OP is from, but outside east/west coasts and major urban
areas, traffic cams are rare. Around here, they would get stolen, like
the security camera on my regular recycle site was. (said site to be
closed 31 Dec to to slobs contaminating it...)

--
aem sends...

On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:28:29 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:

On Nov 23, 8:41Â*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
After reading the others replies, I think the longest term solution is
to take a couple troopers, and go visit the local scrap yards. When
the scrap yards stop buying, the thieves will stop, we hope.

Are the guard rails metal, or concrete?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Â*www.lds.org


That will only work in that one state... A determined and organized
thief will continue to steal and simply take them to a less strict
scrap yard or will shred the metal first and sell it bulk in
containers
where it is unrecognizable as something which is stolen and should
not be recycled...

Taking the time to weld the fasteners in place to retain the
reflectors
to the guard rail will require the thieves to carry additional
equipment
which will demonstrate a clear intent to steal as they would need a
grinder or a torch to remove the welded fasteners... This will make
finding the thieves easier in the long run as it isn't something which
can be done out of a little Honda hatchback...

~~ Evan
Or a Harley

On 11/24/2010 12:31 AM, Evan wrote:
On Nov 23, 7:17 pm, wrote:
On 11/23/2010 3:08 AM, Evan wrote:



On Nov 22, 8:17 pm, wrote:
My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors disappear.
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides, they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks

LOL... Its called Mig-Welding... Make sure the fasteners are of
the same material -- in this case aluminum -- and then when the
assembly is put together tack everything into place with beads of
mig-welding on all the fasteners to prevent them from being removed...

Those guard rail things are meant to stay assembled when they get
put together, so if little aluminum add-on posts are being unbolted
weld the damn bolts in place after you put them on so no one with
a pair of pliers can unbolt them...

Someone who is stealing these sort of things will need a vehicle
with a lot of cargo capacity -- so you should suggest that the state
troopers review traffic camera footage looking at pick up trucks
that enter the highway empty but leave with a lot of stuff in the
back...

~~ Evan

Dunno where OP is from, but outside east/west coasts and major urban
areas, traffic cams are rare. Around here, they would get stolen, like
the security camera on my regular recycle site was. (said site to be
closed 31 Dec to to slobs contaminating it...)

--
aem sends...


LOL... You think they are rare -- the ones that are shown on TV in
the more urban areas are only about 5% of them that exist in such
areas...

Thank 9/11 and government grants but traffic cameras are out there
pretty much everywhere in the US now to be able to keep a lookout
for trouble at many levels of the government...

Traffic cameras and interconnected radio communications systems
for first responders have gotten hundreds of millions of dollars in
government funding in the past 10 years...

~~ Evan

You must not live in flyover country. Out here in upper midwest, there
are many stretches where there is not even an overpass or elevated
structure for 10-15 miles at a time to mount a camera on, interstate or
2-lane state road or city street. I work for the govt, and have been
well trained in spotting potential camera locations. For a highway
camera, you need height, power or room for a solar grid, and a nearby
phone line for the IP connection. The whole country is not like
California or the eastern urban centers. Around here, they are pretty
much limited to the concrete rivers where the local interstate passes
through town, and the major surface street intersections. Local TV
stations may have a few 'live cams' as well, mounted on the local high
spots, but about all they can resolve is looking to see how fast
headlights are moving, or if brakes are being applied. The cameras are
not hard to spot- the little half-ball silver or smoke-color enclosures
jump right at you, once you have seen a few.

And for OP- now that I understand situation better, my 'pink paint'
idea is sounding better and better. Lay them out upside down in parking
lot back at the shop, and paint the backs some dayglo color. Maybe put a
tamper-proof foil sticker on back. And in the flyer to the scrap yards,
and the demo for local TV stations and papers, show exactly what they
look like, and give a number to call for anyone that sees one running
loose. Stripping sprayed paint off mill-finish aluminum is a
labor-intensive and tedious process.

--
aem sends...

In the Rochester, NY area. Cameras on poles are all over the place. I
personally am aware of 20 or more. Looking out over roads, bridges,
etc. I'm not totally sure why they are there. Of course, if I asked,
I'd not expect an honest answer.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Evan" wrote in message
...

Thank 9/11 and government grants but traffic cameras are out there
pretty much everywhere in the US now to be able to keep a lookout
for trouble at many levels of the government...

Traffic cameras and interconnected radio communications systems
for first responders have gotten hundreds of millions of dollars in
government funding in the past 10 years...

~~ Evan

On Nov 23, 2:27*pm, "Cory" wrote:
"Evan" wrote in message

...
On Nov 22, 8:17 pm, "Cory" wrote:




I must not have explained, the posts & blocks on the back of the guardrails
are wood. Still, I understand what you say about welding. Guardrails are
bolted together on site, and are made to come apart when repairs need to be
done.

We have truck mounted welders, but I'm sure they wouldn't tack weld them.
Would have to go through and change all the bolts to aluminum, then
welding. Probably have 20K or more of these mounted. I sure it would work,
but not cost efficient.


I haven't seen it mentioned and may have missed something here but...

Aluminum is good priced scrap metal. Why not replace it with
galvanised iron/steel? Not much money in that and cheaper

Harry K

On Nov 24, 11:35*am, Harry K wrote:


I haven't seen it mentioned and may have missed something here but...

Aluminum is good priced scrap metal. *Why not replace it with
galvanised iron/steel? *Not much money in that and cheaper

Harry K


Because traffic signs (and therefore reflectors also) are made out
of aluminum sheet goods cut to whatever size and shape needed
for the specific application required and then a reflectorized
applique sheet which covers the entire surface is applied...

Galvanized steel would not last the years and years required of
a traffic sign... The applique graphics will fade from exposure to
the sun long before anything happens to the aluminum sheet
which would be recycled and made into other things... A sign
panel made of sheet steel would begin to rust even with a
coating on it...

~~ Evan

On Nov 24, 11:00*am, wrote:


The traffic cameras do not usually have the resolution to identify a
person, particularly at night. They are just there to verify that
traffic is flowing. The stop light cameras are higher resolution since
they are used in court. These are usually set up by a private company
that gets 35-40% of the revenue. There will be quite a number of
cameras per intersection shooting each light from a couple of angles.
We are having a big stink here about these cameras in Naples. The
state is now saying they won't use them for "failure to fully stop on
right turn on red" violations and the vendor wants to pull out because
that is where most of his revenue comes from. It turns out people
don't really run enough red lights to pay for the cameras.


Wow, ok, its clear you have no idea how traffic monitoring works...

At all... Whether or not the traffic is flowing is not determined
visually via cameras but with inductive detector loops in the
pavement which in addition to being able to provide traffic
count information can also be used to provide speed information
when used in pairs, as the time between passing the first
loop and the second loop can be used to indicate speed...

These are the same sort of loops that detect the presence of
a car stopped at a traffic signal to prompt the lights to cycle...

You are driving at such speed on the highway so that you
will not usually notice such detector loops unless you are
specifically looking out for them...

As far as camera resolutions and whatnot, again, clearly
you do not have correct information as to what modern
cameras are capable of... The public would have no reason
to see the secured hi-res feeds from such cameras which
are typically used for law enforcement purposes only...

~~ Evan

On Nov 24, 1:32*am, aemeijers wrote:

You must not live in flyover country. Out here in upper midwest, there
are many stretches where there is not even an overpass or elevated
structure for 10-15 miles at a time to mount a camera on, interstate or
2-lane state road or city street. I work for the govt, and have been
well trained in spotting potential camera locations. *For a highway
camera, you need height, power or room for a solar grid, and a nearby
phone line for the IP connection. The whole country is not like
California or the eastern urban centers. Around here, they are pretty
much limited to the concrete rivers where the local interstate passes
through town, and the major surface street intersections. Local TV
stations may have a few 'live cams' as well, mounted on the local high
spots, but about all they can resolve is looking to see how fast
headlights are moving, or if brakes are being applied. The cameras are
not hard to spot- the little half-ball silver or smoke-color enclosures
jump right at you, once you have seen a few.

And for OP- *now that I understand situation better, my 'pink paint'
idea is sounding better and better. Lay them out upside down in parking
lot back at the shop, and paint the backs some dayglo color. Maybe put a
tamper-proof foil sticker on back. And in the flyer to the scrap yards,
and the demo for local TV stations and papers, show exactly what they
look like, and give a number to call for anyone that sees one running
loose. Stripping sprayed paint off mill-finish aluminum is a
labor-intensive and tedious process.

--
aem sends...


Apparently you live in way low tech world aem...

You work for the government in spotting camera locations ? LOL...
Apparently not so well trained... Yes you do need height for a
camera to be useful... However you do not need an overpass
or a bridge to install them on... In fact such installations are
VERY vulnerable to vandalism and do not provide the best
vantage point for being able to use the cameras as more than
a stationary feed... If someone can spray paint the side of the
bridge they can easily spray paint the camera dome as well...

Modern highway monitoring systems utilize cameras mounted
on towers usually off axis from the driver's line of sight if they
are using proper care and caution in driving down the road...
The cameras are pan/tilt/zoom capable and can when installed
at a strategic location sweep the roadway in both directions...
Modern cameras can even have a night vision capability if
required, although not all do...

These towers will often times contain weather sensors to allow
for real time detection of potentially adverse conditions which
would effect the safety of the roadway and prompt sanding
or salting operations to be initiated...

Often located near such towers are the inductive detector
loops which measure both vehicle speeds and provide
a count of the traffic passing over them to allow the
highway and transportation departments to have data
available to them for determining where money should
be spent on periodic maintenance tasks...

As far as being located near a phone line for IP connection,
what century are you living in -- due to the MILES involved
in distances on a highway these installations are usually
all installed on a fiber optic backbone which is owned and
maintained by the state department of highways or
transportation and buried either beside the roadway or in
the median where it connects many transportation
data communications functions and runs back to some
central location where the computer infrastructure is
located without using the PSTN... DSL service for miles
and miles and miles along highways for such equipment
would cost the state DOT megabucks and would not
have the reliability and durability of a dedicated buried
fiber optic line located in an area where no one will
ever be digging anything without the authorities closely
supervising...

The power is the big factor... However, buried lines near
the highway can feed such equipment without attracting
attention to it like wires strung on poles would...

If you have cell phone service along the highway, it would
not be a gigantic stretch of the imagination or technology
used to install DOT dedicated fiber and power facilities to
install a traffic camera system...

So please, let's not base what little is seen of the low-res
public feeds from traffic cameras on the news or even on
the internet in some areas as factual knowledge of what
the monitoring locations are truly capable of...

~~ Evan

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
And for OP- now that I understand situation better, my 'pink paint' idea
is sounding better and better. Lay them out upside down in parking lot
back at the shop, and paint the backs some dayglo color. Maybe put a
tamper-proof foil sticker on back. And in the flyer to the scrap yards,
and the demo for local TV stations and papers, show exactly what they
look like, and give a number to call for anyone that sees one running
loose. Stripping sprayed paint off mill-finish aluminum is a
labor-intensive and tedious process.

Marking them is another possibility they're looking at.

There are no cameras near this location. It is in a remote location.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Cory" wrote:

My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.



Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted
on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one
coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.



I haven't followed this thread too closely, but I'm confused. How big
are these things, anyway? How much aluminum are we talking about? An
ounce or two? I don't quite see why they're being stolen.

4" x 8" x 1/8" thick. A box of 125 weighs slightly over 80 lbs with
reflective tape. Don't know how much they weigh without the tape.

One can only suspect why they're being stolen.

On Nov 23, 11:33*am, Smitty Two wrote:

We should all be happy we don't live in Beijing. My friend there says
people steal the manhole covers all the time, and it can be months
before they're replaced. In the meantime, no effort is made to cordon
off the hole.

Cheap way to start a subway.

R

Evan wrote:


Because traffic signs (and therefore reflectors also) are made out
of aluminum sheet goods cut to whatever size and shape needed
for the specific application required and then a reflectorized
applique sheet which covers the entire surface is applied...

Galvanized steel would not last the years and years required of
a traffic sign... The applique graphics will fade from exposure to
the sun long before anything happens to the aluminum sheet
which would be recycled and made into other things... A sign
panel made of sheet steel would begin to rust even with a
coating on it...


Excellent points. I take it, then, that the guard rails are also made of
Aluminum for exactly the same reasons?

The OP said it was a requirement of the state agency he's in. And the
OP said he didn't know beyond that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Evan" wrote in message
...
On Nov 24, 11:35 am, Harry K wrote:


I haven't seen it mentioned and may have missed something here
but...

Aluminum is good priced scrap metal. Why not replace it with
galvanised iron/steel? Not much money in that and cheaper

Harry K


Because traffic signs (and therefore reflectors also) are made out
of aluminum sheet goods cut to whatever size and shape needed
for the specific application required and then a reflectorized
applique sheet which covers the entire surface is applied...

Galvanized steel would not last the years and years required of
a traffic sign... The applique graphics will fade from exposure to
the sun long before anything happens to the aluminum sheet
which would be recycled and made into other things... A sign
panel made of sheet steel would begin to rust even with a
coating on it...

~~ Evan

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Evan wrote:


Because traffic signs (and therefore reflectors also) are made out
of aluminum sheet goods cut to whatever size and shape needed
for the specific application required and then a reflectorized
applique sheet which covers the entire surface is applied...

Galvanized steel would not last the years and years required of
a traffic sign... The applique graphics will fade from exposure to
the sun long before anything happens to the aluminum sheet
which would be recycled and made into other things... A sign
panel made of sheet steel would begin to rust even with a
coating on it...


Excellent points. I take it, then, that the guard rails are also made of
Aluminum for exactly the same reasons?

No, the rails are galvanized.

On Nov 24, 4:07*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:


Excellent points. I take it, then, that the guard rails are also made of
Aluminum for exactly the same reasons?


Guard rails are two to three times THICKER than a traffic sign and
are designed to be structural components that take load and deflect
a wayward vehicle... There is MUCH more of a guard rail to rust
away which is why they last longer -- they do rust though...

~~ Evan

In article ,
"Cory" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message



I haven't followed this thread too closely, but I'm confused. How big
are these things, anyway? How much aluminum are we talking about? An
ounce or two? I don't quite see why they're being stolen.

4" x 8" x 1/8" thick. A box of 125 weighs slightly over 80 lbs with
reflective tape. Don't know how much they weigh without the tape.

One can only suspect why they're being stolen.

IOW about 50 cents worth of aluminum. Somehow I don't think organized
crime is behind this. Shouldn't be too much trouble to wino-proof the
fasteners.

In article ,
Evan wrote:
On Nov 24, 4:07*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:


Excellent points. I take it, then, that the guard rails are also made of
Aluminum for exactly the same reasons?


Guard rails are two to three times THICKER than a traffic sign and
are designed to be structural components that take load and deflect
a wayward vehicle... There is MUCH more of a guard rail to rust
away which is why they last longer -- they do rust though...

~~ Evan

In my town the T-section posts that are used to hold street signs are
made of painted steel. They seem to last indefinitely, at least 20 or 30
years, even though they are set directly in concrete. How in the world do
they ever last so long without being made of aluminum?


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 17:42:32 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

Shouldn't be too much trouble to wino-proof the
fasteners.

Classic!

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Cory" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message



I haven't followed this thread too closely, but I'm confused. How big
are these things, anyway? How much aluminum are we talking about? An
ounce or two? I don't quite see why they're being stolen.

4" x 8" x 1/8" thick. A box of 125 weighs slightly over 80 lbs with
reflective tape. Don't know how much they weigh without the tape.

One can only suspect why they're being stolen.

IOW about 50 cents worth of aluminum. Somehow I don't think organized
crime is behind this. Shouldn't be too much trouble to wino-proof the
fasteners.

Speaking from experience? Sorry, you left yourself open for that one.

On Nov 24, 1:42*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The OP said it was a requirement of the state agency he's in. And the
OP said he didn't know beyond that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Evan" wrote in message

...
On Nov 24, 11:35 am, Harry K wrote:



I haven't seen it mentioned and may have missed something here
but...

Aluminum is good priced scrap metal. Why not replace it with
galvanised iron/steel? Not much money in that and cheaper

Harry K

Because traffic signs (and therefore reflectors also) are made out
of aluminum sheet goods cut to whatever size and shape needed
for the specific application required and then a reflectorized
applique sheet which covers the entire surface is applied...

Galvanized steel would not last the years and years required of
a traffic sign... *The applique graphics will fade from exposure to
the sun long before anything happens to the aluminum sheet
which would be recycled and made into other things... *A sign
panel made of sheet steel would begin to rust even with a
coating on it...

~~ Evan

Yep, I was going to mention that but figured someone else would?
As to galvanised not lasting? Seems the aluminum doesn't either
except in scrap yards .

Harry K

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:59:41 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 24, 1:42Â*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The OP said it was a requirement of the state agency he's in. And the
OP said he didn't know beyond that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Â*www.lds.org
.

"Evan" wrote in message

...
On Nov 24, 11:35 am, Harry K wrote:



I haven't seen it mentioned and may have missed something here
but...

Aluminum is good priced scrap metal. Why not replace it with
galvanised iron/steel? Not much money in that and cheaper

Harry K

Because traffic signs (and therefore reflectors also) are made out
of aluminum sheet goods cut to whatever size and shape needed
for the specific application required and then a reflectorized
applique sheet which covers the entire surface is applied...

Galvanized steel would not last the years and years required of
a traffic sign... Â*The applique graphics will fade from exposure to
the sun long before anything happens to the aluminum sheet
which would be recycled and made into other things... Â*A sign
panel made of sheet steel would begin to rust even with a
coating on it...

~~ Evan

Yep, I was going to mention that but figured someone else would?
As to galvanised not lasting? Seems the aluminum doesn't either
except in scrap yards .

Harry K
The guard rail they are fastening it to is hot dip galvanized STEEL.
Why not the reflector?

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:17:23 -0500, "Cory" wrote:

My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with what
they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new reflectors
going up on their routes. The workers are putting up reflectors mounted on
the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem is, the reflectors are
mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top should've seen this one coming,
especially with the economy being the way it is.

The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16" head. The
thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders, or on dangerous
curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the reflectors disappear.
Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably what is making them
disappear.

Presuming you have some extra thread left over or use slightly longer
lag bolts. Purchase or have specially made, some reverse threaded
7/16" nuts.

Install reflector using normal lag bolt, washer and nut.
Then install second reverse threaded nut after first.

When two nuts.. meet.. Tack weld them together..
No mater which way they turn the double nut assembly it won't move.

To remove, grind off tack weld, back off each nut appropriately.
Lag threads will remain intact and undamaged. .


Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember, this is a
State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at the top wants
this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the lags
after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out the lags.

Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas? Besides, they
have better things to do, like responding to accidents from people hitting
unmarked guardrails!

Thanks

In article ,
T. Keating wrote:
...snipped...
Presuming you have some extra thread left over or use slightly longer
lag bolts. Purchase or have specially made, some reverse threaded
7/16" nuts.

Install reflector using normal lag bolt, washer and nut.
Then install second reverse threaded nut after first.

When two nuts.. meet.. Tack weld them together..
No mater which way they turn the double nut assembly it won't move.

To remove, grind off tack weld, back off each nut appropriately.
Lag threads will remain intact and undamaged. .

Not that funny.



--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Cory wrote:
My problem, trying to save taxpayers $ by discouraging thieves.

I know what I would do, but working for a State, I have to work with
what they give me.

Our guardrails have reflectors. The State is implementing new
reflectors going up on their routes. The workers are putting up
reflectors mounted on the blocks or posts for the guardrail. Problem
is, the reflectors are mounted on aluminum! Ok, someone at the top
should've seen this one coming, especially with the economy being the
way it is.
The reflectors are installed using 2, 3/8" x 2" lags with a 7/16"
head. The thieves will not bother the reflectors on narrow shoulders,
or on dangerous curves. But, where a full width shoulder exists, the
reflectors disappear. Besides being pretty, the aluminum is probably
what is making them disappear.

Changing material from aluminum is out of the question. Remember,
this is a State Agency, and come hell or high water, some nitwit at
the top wants this to work.

My initial thought is to have the workers dab PL on the heads of the
lags after installing. But, a set of vice grips would still back out
the lags.
Aside from having the State Troopers sit and wait, any ideas?
Besides, they have better things to do, like responding to accidents
from people hitting unmarked guardrails!

Here's the fix:

Obviously the use of bolted-on Aluminum is the result of a political
decision. Steel would be cheaper and (obviously) last longer.

Without question the Aluminum-post-provider is a relative of the highway
purchasing agent.

So, then, the fix is to approach the supplier and convince him to promote
steel posts to his brother-in-law. He can sell them for more on than the
current Aluminum post for the reason that they won't be stolen!

I know the whole idea is spooky, but that's the way the world works.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Without question the Aluminum-post-provider is a relative of the highway
purchasing agent.

The posts, AIUI, are not aluminum, but wood. Else why would the
reflectors be mounted with 2" long lag screws?

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Without question the Aluminum-post-provider is a relative of the
highway purchasing agent.

The posts, AIUI, are not aluminum, but wood. Else why would the
reflectors be mounted with 2" long lag screws?

1. That's all they had.
2. The screw supplier is related to the highway department's purchasing
agent.
3. To a man with a wrench, every problem can be solved with a screw.

On Nov 27, 5:06*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Without question the Aluminum-post-provider is a relative of the
highway purchasing agent.

The posts, AIUI, are not aluminum, but wood. Else why would the
reflectors be mounted with 2" long lag screws?

1. That's all they had.
2. The screw supplier is related to the highway department's purchasing
agent.
3. To a man with a wrench, every problem can be solved with a screw.

Any man will select a screw if one is available.

Harry K

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 10:14:54 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 27, 5:06*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Without question the Aluminum-post-provider is a relative of the
highway purchasing agent.

The posts, AIUI, are not aluminum, but wood. Else why would the
reflectors be mounted with 2" long lag screws?

1. That's all they had.
2. The screw supplier is related to the highway department's purchasing
agent.
3. To a man with a wrench, every problem can be solved with a screw.

Any man will select a screw if one is available.

It's not men who do the selection.

On 11/24/2010 2:20 PM, Evan wrote:
On Nov 24, 1:32 am, wrote:

(snip)

So please, let's not base what little is seen of the low-res
public feeds from traffic cameras on the news or even on
the internet in some areas as factual knowledge of what
the monitoring locations are truly capable of...

~~ Evan

You must live in a real rich area, then. The state I am in, Michigan,
and the state I am from and still spend time in, Indiana, are flat
broke. They can barely afford salt, or patching potholes, or an engineer
to see the relationship between those two activities. I doubt five
percent of the road miles in this state have cameras. And I KNOW there
are no state-owned fiber trunks down the main roads.

Only area near here I am aware of that has a California-style traffic
monitoring system is metro Chicago. In MI, a few cities have 'problem
stretches' with cameras, but only in those problem areas, which are
primarily badly-designed highways where big trucks keep falling off the
curves in icy weather.

And yes, I HAVE seen what a fancy camera in a ball on a pole can do. The
place I work has about 30 of them. including around the perimeter and on
the high points of the building.

--
aem sends...