On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:32:23 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.


Even if a trap cracked, how much water is in the typical trap? Between a cup
and a quart at the most? How's that going to cause major damage to a house?


It won't unless somehow you cracked the bases of a couple toilets.
That wouldn't cause major damage to the home but you would be buying a
couple new toilets perhaps shucking out a few hundred bucks plus the
cost of labor to replace them if you aren't inclined to do so
yourself.

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:32:23 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.


Even if a trap cracked, how much water is in the typical trap? Between a cup
and a quart at the most? How's that going to cause major damage to a house?


It won't unless somehow you cracked the bases of a couple toilets.
That wouldn't cause major damage to the home but you would be buying a
couple new toilets perhaps shucking out a few hundred bucks plus the
cost of labor to replace them if you aren't inclined to do so
yourself.

On Dec 9, 10:58*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message

...



JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

For $3.97 that might be a lot cheaper than replacing a bunch
of broken pipes. I got to thinking. On the way home, I
bought myself a jug of antifreeze. Might never need it. But
it might be cheaper than replacing a bunch of pipes and such
if I need it here, or for a friend some day.

--
Christopher A. Young

Unless the drains were clogged, why would there be any water in them? And
what little is left in the traps would have plenty of room for expansion.
What you need to do is shut off the main water supply valve, and then
drain as much water as you can from the supply pipes by turning on ALL
the taps, especially the one in the laundry sink (in the basement), if
there is a tap down there.

Why is the power off? Reasons beyond the owner's control, or what?

the traps WILL break *duh.

If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom and don't tighten
the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't break because
there's room for expansion. With me so far?

After I run water in my sink or tub, the pipes end up empty except for a
very small amount in the U-shaped trap. Since there's plenty of room for
expansion (above and below), why should there be a problem? It certainly
couldn't HURT to use the anti-freeze, but the OP didn't mention shutting off
the water and draining the pipes. Seems to me that's where the real problems
will occur, since those pipes are under pressure and sealed (until they
break).

I assist with the maintenance at several church summer camps. Anytime
we do not antifreeze the traps they break. When that U shaped slug of
water freezes it expands in all directions and fractures the traps.
Your theory doesn't work in the real world. We blow all of the supply
lines down with compressed air so we have no trouble with those.
--
Tom Horne

On Dec 9, 10:58*am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message

...



JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

For $3.97 that might be a lot cheaper than replacing a bunch
of broken pipes. I got to thinking. On the way home, I
bought myself a jug of antifreeze. Might never need it. But
it might be cheaper than replacing a bunch of pipes and such
if I need it here, or for a friend some day.

--
Christopher A. Young

Unless the drains were clogged, why would there be any water in them? And
what little is left in the traps would have plenty of room for expansion.
What you need to do is shut off the main water supply valve, and then
drain as much water as you can from the supply pipes by turning on ALL
the taps, especially the one in the laundry sink (in the basement), if
there is a tap down there.

Why is the power off? Reasons beyond the owner's control, or what?

the traps WILL break *duh.

If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom and don't tighten
the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't break because
there's room for expansion. With me so far?

After I run water in my sink or tub, the pipes end up empty except for a
very small amount in the U-shaped trap. Since there's plenty of room for
expansion (above and below), why should there be a problem? It certainly
couldn't HURT to use the anti-freeze, but the OP didn't mention shutting off
the water and draining the pipes. Seems to me that's where the real problems
will occur, since those pipes are under pressure and sealed (until they
break).

I assist with the maintenance at several church summer camps. Anytime
we do not antifreeze the traps they break. When that U shaped slug of
water freezes it expands in all directions and fractures the traps.
Your theory doesn't work in the real world. We blow all of the supply
lines down with compressed air so we have no trouble with those.
--
Tom Horne

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:32:23 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.


Even if a trap cracked, how much water is in the typical trap? Between a
cup
and a quart at the most? How's that going to cause major damage to a
house?


It won't unless somehow you cracked the bases of a couple toilets.
That wouldn't cause major damage to the home but you would be buying a
couple new toilets perhaps shucking out a few hundred bucks plus the
cost of labor to replace them if you aren't inclined to do so
yourself.

OK. I hadn't considered the toilets.

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:32:23 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.


Even if a trap cracked, how much water is in the typical trap? Between a
cup
and a quart at the most? How's that going to cause major damage to a
house?


It won't unless somehow you cracked the bases of a couple toilets.
That wouldn't cause major damage to the home but you would be buying a
couple new toilets perhaps shucking out a few hundred bucks plus the
cost of labor to replace them if you aren't inclined to do so
yourself.

OK. I hadn't considered the toilets.

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.


Now, what about the water heater? :-)

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.


Now, what about the water heater? :-)

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.

You are wrong.

Anti freeze in traps is standard practice for lots of cabins in the mountains
for a reason. Traps freeze and crack. Then you have to repair the damage before
you can use the fixtures/toilets.

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.

You are wrong.

Anti freeze in traps is standard practice for lots of cabins in the mountains
for a reason. Traps freeze and crack. Then you have to repair the damage before
you can use the fixtures/toilets.

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:21:41 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Unless the drains were clogged, why would there be any water in them? And
what little is left in the traps would have plenty of room for expansion.
What you need to do is shut off the main water supply valve, and then drain
as much water as you can from the supply pipes by turning on ALL the taps,
especially the one in the laundry sink (in the basement), if there is a tap
down there.

Plus a tap on the top floor to let air in so it drains out the bottom
as well as possible.

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:21:41 -0500, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Unless the drains were clogged, why would there be any water in them? And
what little is left in the traps would have plenty of room for expansion.
What you need to do is shut off the main water supply valve, and then drain
as much water as you can from the supply pipes by turning on ALL the taps,
especially the one in the laundry sink (in the basement), if there is a tap
down there.

Plus a tap on the top floor to let air in so it drains out the bottom
as well as possible.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.

You are wrong.

Anti freeze in traps is standard practice for lots of cabins in the
mountains for a reason. Traps freeze and crack. Then you have to repair
the damage before you can use the fixtures/toilets.




Is it a special kind of antifreeze? I would imagine most cabins have septic
systems and isn't af a no-no?

Jim

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.

You are wrong.

Anti freeze in traps is standard practice for lots of cabins in the
mountains for a reason. Traps freeze and crack. Then you have to repair
the damage before you can use the fixtures/toilets.




Is it a special kind of antifreeze? I would imagine most cabins have septic
systems and isn't af a no-no?

Jim

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:11:09 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Steve Barker" wrote

the traps WILL break duh.

Don't ask me how I know. Some people will say that there has to be a sealed
pipe, otherwise there's room to expand up the pipe. Balderdash, I say. And
what's the big deal taking 15 minutes and two gallons of RV antifreeze and
going through the house? Also, don't forget the toilet tanks. There is
about a pint of water in there that won't drain, and it needs some
antifreeze in there. And the bow of snake sprayers in the kitchen.

So how do you ice-proof the sprayer?

Again,
don't ask me how I know.

Steve

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:11:09 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Steve Barker" wrote

the traps WILL break duh.

Don't ask me how I know. Some people will say that there has to be a sealed
pipe, otherwise there's room to expand up the pipe. Balderdash, I say. And
what's the big deal taking 15 minutes and two gallons of RV antifreeze and
going through the house? Also, don't forget the toilet tanks. There is
about a pint of water in there that won't drain, and it needs some
antifreeze in there. And the bow of snake sprayers in the kitchen.

So how do you ice-proof the sprayer?

Again,
don't ask me how I know.

Steve

"HeyBub" wrote


I don't understand. How can freezing of water in a p-trap present a
significant problem?


At my cabin, the floor is joists. All plumbing hangs under there, then goes
down to the septic tank.

Temperature in the nearby town was 0 last evening. 1,500 farther up at the
cabin, it varies from 10 to 15 degrees colder. So, it was below zero, not
just below 32 degrees, at the cabin. If I don't put RV antifreeze in all
the P traps, and make sure they have been flushed of water, I stand to have
substantial damage. I had a 3/4" copper line freeze on me last winter, and
the thing was open on the top end, so there was room for expansion.

I consider burst pipes a significant problem. YMMV.

Steve

"HeyBub" wrote


I don't understand. How can freezing of water in a p-trap present a
significant problem?


At my cabin, the floor is joists. All plumbing hangs under there, then goes
down to the septic tank.

Temperature in the nearby town was 0 last evening. 1,500 farther up at the
cabin, it varies from 10 to 15 degrees colder. So, it was below zero, not
just below 32 degrees, at the cabin. If I don't put RV antifreeze in all
the P traps, and make sure they have been flushed of water, I stand to have
substantial damage. I had a 3/4" copper line freeze on me last winter, and
the thing was open on the top end, so there was room for expansion.

I consider burst pipes a significant problem. YMMV.

Steve

"EXT" wrote

Water will still be in the supply lines, probably even if it is drained,
and can freeze. If the water was not shut off the house could be flooded
when the supply pipe splits.

Water can be in all sorts of lines you think you've drained. At our cabin,
we have one of the pull out snakes in the kitchen. The water in the bow of
the hose remained after the cabin had been drained, and it froze. Now, I
take off the head and blow through it to empty it, but that first year, it
burst. I think I'm going to make a Schrader input, and use air to blow it
out, so I can get more.

Steve

"EXT" wrote

Water will still be in the supply lines, probably even if it is drained,
and can freeze. If the water was not shut off the house could be flooded
when the supply pipe splits.

Water can be in all sorts of lines you think you've drained. At our cabin,
we have one of the pull out snakes in the kitchen. The water in the bow of
the hose remained after the cabin had been drained, and it froze. Now, I
take off the head and blow through it to empty it, but that first year, it
burst. I think I'm going to make a Schrader input, and use air to blow it
out, so I can get more.

Steve

"Steve Barker" wrote

the traps WILL break duh.

Don't ask me how I know. Some people will say that there has to be a sealed
pipe, otherwise there's room to expand up the pipe. Balderdash, I say. And
what's the big deal taking 15 minutes and two gallons of RV antifreeze and
going through the house? Also, don't forget the toilet tanks. There is
about a pint of water in there that won't drain, and it needs some
antifreeze in there. And the bow of snake sprayers in the kitchen. Again,
don't ask me how I know.

Steve

"Steve Barker" wrote

the traps WILL break duh.

Don't ask me how I know. Some people will say that there has to be a sealed
pipe, otherwise there's room to expand up the pipe. Balderdash, I say. And
what's the big deal taking 15 minutes and two gallons of RV antifreeze and
going through the house? Also, don't forget the toilet tanks. There is
about a pint of water in there that won't drain, and it needs some
antifreeze in there. And the bow of snake sprayers in the kitchen. Again,
don't ask me how I know.

Steve

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

For $3.97 that might be a lot cheaper than replacing a bunch
of broken pipes. I got to thinking. On the way home, I
bought myself a jug of antifreeze. Might never need it. But
it might be cheaper than replacing a bunch of pipes and such
if I need it here, or for a friend some day.

--
Christopher A. Young


Unless the drains were clogged, why would there be any water in them?
And what little is left in the traps would have plenty of room for
expansion. What you need to do is shut off the main water supply valve,
and then drain as much water as you can from the supply pipes by turning
on ALL the taps, especially the one in the laundry sink (in the
basement), if there is a tap down there.

Why is the power off? Reasons beyond the owner's control, or what?

the traps WILL break duh.


If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom and don't
tighten the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't break
because there's room for expansion. With me so far?

After I run water in my sink or tub, the pipes end up empty except for a
very small amount in the U-shaped trap. Since there's plenty of room for
expansion (above and below), why should there be a problem? It certainly
couldn't HURT to use the anti-freeze, but the OP didn't mention shutting
off the water and draining the pipes. Seems to me that's where the real
problems will occur, since those pipes are under pressure and sealed
(until they break).

Joe, you said it, therefore it must be true. I guess I didn't crawl in the
mud under my cabin and replace a burst P trap. Must been one of those
Ambien dreams.

Steve

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

For $3.97 that might be a lot cheaper than replacing a bunch
of broken pipes. I got to thinking. On the way home, I
bought myself a jug of antifreeze. Might never need it. But
it might be cheaper than replacing a bunch of pipes and such
if I need it here, or for a friend some day.

--
Christopher A. Young


Unless the drains were clogged, why would there be any water in them?
And what little is left in the traps would have plenty of room for
expansion. What you need to do is shut off the main water supply valve,
and then drain as much water as you can from the supply pipes by turning
on ALL the taps, especially the one in the laundry sink (in the
basement), if there is a tap down there.

Why is the power off? Reasons beyond the owner's control, or what?

the traps WILL break duh.


If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom and don't
tighten the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't break
because there's room for expansion. With me so far?

After I run water in my sink or tub, the pipes end up empty except for a
very small amount in the U-shaped trap. Since there's plenty of room for
expansion (above and below), why should there be a problem? It certainly
couldn't HURT to use the anti-freeze, but the OP didn't mention shutting
off the water and draining the pipes. Seems to me that's where the real
problems will occur, since those pipes are under pressure and sealed
(until they break).

Joe, you said it, therefore it must be true. I guess I didn't crawl in the
mud under my cabin and replace a burst P trap. Must been one of those
Ambien dreams.

Steve

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's house. The
power got shut off, and the house is cold inside. Down to 37, last he
checked. Four burneers on the stove for an hour raises the temp two
entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps. Toilets, sinks,
showers. We considered the dishwasher. But that hadn't run in six month
or so, and probably the trap dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar,
and should stay warmer.

For $3.97 that might be a lot cheaper than replacing a bunch of broken
pipes. I got to thinking. On the way home, I bought myself a jug of
antifreeze. Might never need it. But it might be cheaper than replacing a
bunch of pipes and such if I need it here, or for a friend some day.

I'm hoping you bought RV type antifreeze and not automobile type. You
don't want to flush auto stuff down the drains to contaminate the water
supply.

Didn't the man just say that?

Steve

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's house. The
power got shut off, and the house is cold inside. Down to 37, last he
checked. Four burneers on the stove for an hour raises the temp two
entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps. Toilets, sinks,
showers. We considered the dishwasher. But that hadn't run in six month
or so, and probably the trap dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar,
and should stay warmer.

For $3.97 that might be a lot cheaper than replacing a bunch of broken
pipes. I got to thinking. On the way home, I bought myself a jug of
antifreeze. Might never need it. But it might be cheaper than replacing a
bunch of pipes and such if I need it here, or for a friend some day.

I'm hoping you bought RV type antifreeze and not automobile type. You
don't want to flush auto stuff down the drains to contaminate the water
supply.

Didn't the man just say that?

Steve

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.


Even if a trap cracked, how much water is in the typical trap? Between a
cup and a quart at the most? How's that going to cause major damage to a
house?

It won't. But then when the owner returns and starts to reuse it ..........

Steve

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:09:38 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's
house. The power got shut off, and the house is cold inside.
Down to 37, last he checked. Four burneers on the stove for
an hour raises the temp two entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps.
Toilets, sinks, showers. We considered the dishwasher. But
that hadn't run in six month or so, and probably the trap
dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar, and should stay
warmer.

Water freezing in a drain trap will expand without breaking the
surrounding plumbing.


Even if a trap cracked, how much water is in the typical trap? Between a
cup and a quart at the most? How's that going to cause major damage to a
house?

It won't. But then when the owner returns and starts to reuse it ..........

Steve

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's house. The
power got shut off, and the house is cold inside. Down to 37, last he
checked. Four burneers on the stove for an hour raises the temp two
entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps. Toilets, sinks,
showers. We considered the dishwasher. But that hadn't run in six month
or so, and probably the trap dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar,
and should stay warmer.

For $3.97 that might be a lot cheaper than replacing a bunch of broken
pipes. I got to thinking. On the way home, I bought myself a jug of
antifreeze. Might never need it. But it might be cheaper than replacing a
bunch of pipes and such if I need it here, or for a friend some day.

why not just turn the heat on?


Because he said the power got shut off. He didn't say why, but based on the
information we have (as opposed to "what if...?"), there is no heat
available.



duh, turn the power back on. It's cheaper than a re-plumb.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Friend of mine, is acting as caretaker for a family member's house. The
power got shut off, and the house is cold inside. Down to 37, last he
checked. Four burneers on the stove for an hour raises the temp two
entire degrees.

Last night, we put RV antifreeze in the drain traps. Toilets, sinks,
showers. We considered the dishwasher. But that hadn't run in six month
or so, and probably the trap dried out. Washing machine is in the cellar,
and should stay warmer.

For $3.97 that might be a lot cheaper than replacing a bunch of broken
pipes. I got to thinking. On the way home, I bought myself a jug of
antifreeze. Might never need it. But it might be cheaper than replacing a
bunch of pipes and such if I need it here, or for a friend some day.

why not just turn the heat on?


Because he said the power got shut off. He didn't say why, but based on the
information we have (as opposed to "what if...?"), there is no heat
available.



duh, turn the power back on. It's cheaper than a re-plumb.

sewer gases often include methane, its a natural biproduct of rotting
stuff in sewer lines.

can cause explosion............

not good

The OP is far better off letting a friend live there for the price of
utilities.

vacant homes are often arson targets, and if homeowners wasnt told
home was vacant no coverage

sewer gases often include methane, its a natural biproduct of rotting
stuff in sewer lines.

can cause explosion............

not good

The OP is far better off letting a friend live there for the price of
utilities.

vacant homes are often arson targets, and if homeowners wasnt told
home was vacant no coverage

DD_BobK wrote:
On Dec 9, 8:17 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

The Ball canning guide says otherwise. Many uncracked jars in my freezer
over the years are also evidence to the contrary. But this doesn't matter.
If you think there is NOT room for expansion in the u-shaped drain traps, I
really want to hear about it. I'm a very curious guy.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

...


I've had glass crack, in the freezer. Many years ago, and my
parents were not pleased. Admittedly it was a full glass
bottle with a cap screwed on. I'm fairly sure ice expands
sidways, so it would crack in any case.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
...

If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom
and don't tighten
the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't
break because
there's room for expansion. With me so far?


JSB & CY-

I've frozen a few things in glass over the years in the freezer and
outside.....jsut a curious kid with an understanding dad.

My comment is...if the glass has any importance, dont do it.

Sometimes they break but most of the time they don't. I think it has
to do with the shape of the containter AND with how (from where) it
starts to freeze. My theory is, if the top froze first, it created
a "cap" and didnt allow the ice to grow in height.

CY- When water freezes it expansion in all directions. Just like when
a homogeneous material (like a block of metal) is subject to unifrom
heating, it grows in all three axes.

But lets not get started on a discussion of what happens when a metal
washer is heated....

cheers
Bob

--------------------
water expands 4% when it freezes

paul

DD_BobK wrote:
On Dec 9, 8:17 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

The Ball canning guide says otherwise. Many uncracked jars in my freezer
over the years are also evidence to the contrary. But this doesn't matter.
If you think there is NOT room for expansion in the u-shaped drain traps, I
really want to hear about it. I'm a very curious guy.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

...


I've had glass crack, in the freezer. Many years ago, and my
parents were not pleased. Admittedly it was a full glass
bottle with a cap screwed on. I'm fairly sure ice expands
sidways, so it would crack in any case.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
...

If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom
and don't tighten
the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't
break because
there's room for expansion. With me so far?


JSB & CY-

I've frozen a few things in glass over the years in the freezer and
outside.....jsut a curious kid with an understanding dad.

My comment is...if the glass has any importance, dont do it.

Sometimes they break but most of the time they don't. I think it has
to do with the shape of the containter AND with how (from where) it
starts to freeze. My theory is, if the top froze first, it created
a "cap" and didnt allow the ice to grow in height.

CY- When water freezes it expansion in all directions. Just like when
a homogeneous material (like a block of metal) is subject to unifrom
heating, it grows in all three axes.

But lets not get started on a discussion of what happens when a metal
washer is heated....

cheers
Bob

--------------------
water expands 4% when it freezes

paul

And when the water is turned back on, some future moment. A
very real concern for sure.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...

Water will still be in the supply lines, probably even if it
is drained, and
can freeze. If the water was not shut off the house could be
flooded when
the supply pipe splits.

And when the water is turned back on, some future moment. A
very real concern for sure.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...

Water will still be in the supply lines, probably even if it
is drained, and
can freeze. If the water was not shut off the house could be
flooded when
the supply pipe splits.

I agree. Having the power off is unwise. I'd have to ask
again. I've forgotten why the power is off. I think one or
more of the adult (should behave like them) children owns
the house on paper, and the father is acting with great
love, helping take care of the house. Even though father is
out of work, money is not there, and gasoline to drive to
the house is precious.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...

This seems unwise, viz. denies power to lamps and burglar/
fire alarms. Many insurance carriers deny coverage when
electricity is shut off. Canadian houses empty for a week
to
several months in winter usually maintain elec. connections
and set furnace heat at 45 to 50 deg. Fahr., with an alarm
to
report if the electricity should fail.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

I agree. Having the power off is unwise. I'd have to ask
again. I've forgotten why the power is off. I think one or
more of the adult (should behave like them) children owns
the house on paper, and the father is acting with great
love, helping take care of the house. Even though father is
out of work, money is not there, and gasoline to drive to
the house is precious.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...

This seems unwise, viz. denies power to lamps and burglar/
fire alarms. Many insurance carriers deny coverage when
electricity is shut off. Canadian houses empty for a week
to
several months in winter usually maintain elec. connections
and set furnace heat at 45 to 50 deg. Fahr., with an alarm
to
report if the electricity should fail.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Toilet replace, I've done that. It's a pain in the ass.
Expecially when a pour of antifreeze coulda prevented the
problem.

Tipecanoe and a toilet or two?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

No one said that it would cause MAJOR damage. Might be a
good idea to
prevent it from happening, though. Especially since
preventing it is
so much cheaper and easier than having to repair it. And
trapped water
in the inards of a toilet can cost you a toilet, too.

Toilet replace, I've done that. It's a pain in the ass.
Expecially when a pour of antifreeze coulda prevented the
problem.

Tipecanoe and a toilet or two?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

No one said that it would cause MAJOR damage. Might be a
good idea to
prevent it from happening, though. Especially since
preventing it is
so much cheaper and easier than having to repair it. And
trapped water
in the inards of a toilet can cost you a toilet, too.