The water does not have to be turned on. Once the weather warms, the ice
in the frozen pipes that cracked the pipes will melt and the water will
escape from the cracks. I know this for a fact since I had to respond to
floods in unoccupied homes after a long freeze.

--

Bill

anyone who desnt beieve water will freeze and break lines and traps in
a unheated home lacks common sense.

its a real issue, and tearing into cielings and walls to replace lines
is no fun, let alone water leaks when things warm up and water is
turned bacxk on.......

The water does not have to be turned on. Once the weather warms, the ice
in the frozen pipes that cracked the pipes will melt and the water will
escape from the cracks. I know this for a fact since I had to respond to
floods in unoccupied homes after a long freeze.

--

Bill

anyone who desnt beieve water will freeze and break lines and traps in
a unheated home lacks common sense.

its a real issue, and tearing into cielings and walls to replace lines
is no fun, let alone water leaks when things warm up and water is
turned bacxk on.......

wrote in message
...

The water does not have to be turned on. Once the weather warms, the ice
in the frozen pipes that cracked the pipes will melt and the water will
escape from the cracks. I know this for a fact since I had to respond to
floods in unoccupied homes after a long freeze.

--

Bill

anyone who desnt beieve water will freeze and break lines and traps in
a unheated home lacks common sense.

its a real issue, and tearing into cielings and walls to replace lines
is no fun, let alone water leaks when things warm up and water is
turned bacxk on.......


It seems we are hearing the most that this cannot happen from people who
have not ever replaced a pipe or p trap that has burst from freezing.

Why is that?

Steve

wrote in message
...

The water does not have to be turned on. Once the weather warms, the ice
in the frozen pipes that cracked the pipes will melt and the water will
escape from the cracks. I know this for a fact since I had to respond to
floods in unoccupied homes after a long freeze.

--

Bill

anyone who desnt beieve water will freeze and break lines and traps in
a unheated home lacks common sense.

its a real issue, and tearing into cielings and walls to replace lines
is no fun, let alone water leaks when things warm up and water is
turned bacxk on.......


It seems we are hearing the most that this cannot happen from people who
have not ever replaced a pipe or p trap that has burst from freezing.

Why is that?

Steve

On Dec 9, 1:45*pm, Paul Oman wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
On Dec 9, 8:17 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

The Ball canning guide says otherwise. Many uncracked jars in my freezer
over the years are also evidence to the contrary. But this doesn't matter.
If you think there is NOT room for expansion in the u-shaped drain traps, I
really want to hear about it. I'm a very curious guy.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

...

I've had glass crack, in the freezer. Many years ago, and my
parents were not pleased. Admittedly it was a full glass
bottle with a cap screwed on. I'm fairly sure ice expands
sidways, so it would crack in any case.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
...

If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom
and don't tighten
the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't
break because
there's room for expansion. With me so far?

JSB & CY-

I've frozen a few things in glass over the years in the freezer and
outside.....jsut a curious kid with an understanding dad.

My comment is...if the glass has any importance, dont do it.

Sometimes they break but most of the time they don't. *I think it has
to do with the shape of the containter AND with how (from where) it
starts to freeze. * My theory is, if *the top froze first, it created
a "cap" and didnt allow the ice to grow in height.

CY- When water freezes it expansion in all directions. *Just like when
a homogeneous material (like a block of metal) is subject to unifrom
heating, it grows in all three axes.

But lets not get started on a discussion of what happens when a metal
washer is heated.... *

cheers
Bob

--------------------
water expands 4% when it freezes

paul

Then why is ~10% of an iceberg above the surface of the water?

4% relative to what?

cheers
Bob

On Dec 9, 1:45*pm, Paul Oman wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
On Dec 9, 8:17 am, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

The Ball canning guide says otherwise. Many uncracked jars in my freezer
over the years are also evidence to the contrary. But this doesn't matter.
If you think there is NOT room for expansion in the u-shaped drain traps, I
really want to hear about it. I'm a very curious guy.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

...

I've had glass crack, in the freezer. Many years ago, and my
parents were not pleased. Admittedly it was a full glass
bottle with a cap screwed on. I'm fairly sure ice expands
sidways, so it would crack in any case.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
...

If I put liquid in a glass jar, but leave enough headroom
and don't tighten
the lid, I can put that jar in the freezer and the jar won't
break because
there's room for expansion. With me so far?

JSB & CY-

I've frozen a few things in glass over the years in the freezer and
outside.....jsut a curious kid with an understanding dad.

My comment is...if the glass has any importance, dont do it.

Sometimes they break but most of the time they don't. *I think it has
to do with the shape of the containter AND with how (from where) it
starts to freeze. * My theory is, if *the top froze first, it created
a "cap" and didnt allow the ice to grow in height.

CY- When water freezes it expansion in all directions. *Just like when
a homogeneous material (like a block of metal) is subject to unifrom
heating, it grows in all three axes.

But lets not get started on a discussion of what happens when a metal
washer is heated.... *

cheers
Bob

--------------------
water expands 4% when it freezes

paul

Then why is ~10% of an iceberg above the surface of the water?

4% relative to what?

cheers
Bob

On Dec 9, 2:20*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The WH is in the subterranian cellar. We *hope* that will
stay above freezing. If it gets bitter cold, I can go back,
turn turn the gas on at the WH, and it will heat back up.
It's on pilot, now. I mighta better left it on super low
vacation temp.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
...

Now, what about the water heater? *:-)

My money is on the pilot being enough

cheers
Bob

On Dec 9, 2:20*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The WH is in the subterranian cellar. We *hope* that will
stay above freezing. If it gets bitter cold, I can go back,
turn turn the gas on at the WH, and it will heat back up.
It's on pilot, now. I mighta better left it on super low
vacation temp.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
...

Now, what about the water heater? *:-)

My money is on the pilot being enough

cheers
Bob

Now, what about the water heater? �:-)

My money is on the pilot being enough

cheers
Bob-

new hot water tank at least 400 bucks, is it worth the risk?

They slept through the sounds of someone stealing their pipes??? How drunk
were these people? Or, are they simply deaf?



"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I hope the house will have the copper pipes, when we return.
I do know of one family who had that happen late night while
the family slept. I know the man in question, and he was a
bit crude mouthed when he got up and found he didn't have
any water to make his morning cup o'joe. Plus the cost of
replacing the pipes.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 13:35:29 -0800


vacant homes are often arson targets, and if homeowners
wasnt told
home was vacant no coverage

These days, stealing the copper plumbing to sell for scrap
is a big
issue with unoccupied homes.

Yeah, but they won't be FILLED with water, like when they were under
pressure.


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I do remember. There may be horizontal runs of pipe which
still contain water.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
No, because you were also slick enough to shut off the water
supply and turn
on all the faucets, thereby draining them. Remember? You did
that yesterday.

Could have been both. It was a couple decades ago, and I'm
no longer associating with them.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
They slept through the sounds of someone stealing their
pipes??? How drunk
were these people? Or, are they simply deaf?

I hope that you're right. Depends on how much slope, and in
which direction.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
Yeah, but they won't be FILLED with water, like when they
were under
pressure.


"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message
...
I do remember. There may be horizontal runs of pipe which
still contain water.

What other option is there? NOT draining the pipes?


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I hope that you're right. Depends on how much slope, and in
which direction.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
Yeah, but they won't be FILLED with water, like when they
were under
pressure.


"Stormin Mormon" wrote
in message
...
I do remember. There may be horizontal runs of pipe which
still contain water.

on 12/10/2009 12:52 AM (ET) DD_BobK wrote the following:
On Dec 9, 2:20 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The WH is in the subterranian cellar. We *hope* that will
stay above freezing. If it gets bitter cold, I can go back,
turn turn the gas on at the WH, and it will heat back up.
It's on pilot, now. I mighta better left it on super low
vacation temp.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
...

Now, what about the water heater? :-)


My money is on the pilot being enough

cheers
Bob


You don't have an electric water heater, I'm guessing.
Winter in the North US causes many power outages due to downed wires
from ice weight, or falling ice laden branches..
Gas Furnaces and Oil Boilers also require electricity to run.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
That's true, but not relevant to this situation. Think about it a moment,
then forget about it. It's the least of your problems. The supply pipes are
the main issue.

unless it cracks your $300 toilet.

Jules wrote in
news
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:10:21 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Toilet replace, I've done that. It's a pain in the ass.

Maybe you installed it the wrong way up?



The wax thing is not a can cushion?

On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 14:38:57 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"mm" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:11:09 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Steve Barker" wrote

the traps WILL break duh.

Don't ask me how I know. Some people will say that there has to be a
sealed
pipe, otherwise there's room to expand up the pipe. Balderdash, I say.
And
what's the big deal taking 15 minutes and two gallons of RV antifreeze and
going through the house? Also, don't forget the toilet tanks. There is
about a pint of water in there that won't drain, and it needs some
antifreeze in there. And the bow of snake sprayers in the kitchen.

So how do you ice-proof the sprayer?

Again,
don't ask me how I know.

Steve

It disconnects on both end. The first year, I took the head off, and left

I didnt' know the head came off. Thanks.

the hose hanging down to floor level. This year, I blew air through it
backwards. You ice proof the sprayer by removing all water from it.

Steve

"DD_BobK" wrote

4% relative to what?

cheers
Bob

Volume? What do I win?

Steve

1) do nothing
2) gravity drain (been done)
3) blow out with compressed air
4) pump some antifreeze into the water lines, some how
5) power back on, or some form of heat source
6) leave water dribbling

Maybe I missed one?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
What other option is there? NOT draining the pipes?

Well, in light of what I wrote (text left in) there is a
chance you can determine if the cold house has electric
water heater.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"willshak" wrote in message
m...
On Dec 9, 2:20 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The WH is in the subterranian cellar. We *hope* that will
stay above freezing. If it gets bitter cold, I can go
back,
turn turn the gas on at the WH, and it will heat back up.
It's on pilot, now. I mighta better left it on super low
vacation temp.


You don't have an electric water heater, I'm guessing.
Winter in the North US causes many power outages due to
downed wires
from ice weight, or falling ice laden branches..
Gas Furnaces and Oil Boilers also require electricity to
run.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Is, on mine. The wax ring is a bit sticky, so I smeared
vaseline on the wax top. Now, it works fine. I've had to
invest in cold packs, I keep sliding off and hitting my head
on the sink.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
Jules wrote in
news
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:10:21 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Toilet replace, I've done that. It's a pain in the ass.

Maybe you installed it the wrong way up?



The wax thing is not a can cushion?

If the sprayer hose is removed, doesn't water come spraying
out?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
...

So how do you ice-proof the sprayer?


It disconnects on both end. The first year, I took the
head off, and left

I didnt' know the head came off. Thanks.

Gravity drain is free and easy, and requires no other equipment other than a
beer, which you enjoy while standing there saying "Yep. It's draining."


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
1) do nothing
2) gravity drain (been done)
3) blow out with compressed air
4) pump some antifreeze into the water lines, some how
5) power back on, or some form of heat source
6) leave water dribbling

Maybe I missed one?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
What other option is there? NOT draining the pipes?

Not if you shut off the water supply and drained the pipes, while sipping
your specially designated beer.


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
If the sprayer hose is removed, doesn't water come spraying
out?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"mm" wrote in message
...

So how do you ice-proof the sprayer?


It disconnects on both end. The first year, I took the
head off, and left

I didnt' know the head came off. Thanks.

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:26:26 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Is, on mine. The wax ring is a bit sticky, so I smeared
vaseline on the wax top. Now, it works fine. I've had to
invest in cold packs, I keep sliding off and hitting my head
on the sink.

this thread is rapidly going down the toilet...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but as we can see at the web site
below, many religions include some very odd practices. Is there anything in
the Mormon religion which prohibits the draining of pipes?

http://listverse.com/2007/08/13/10-w...ous-practices/

But the chicken thing seems just as weird as the e-meter. :-)

Being Mormon, and the house belongs to a practicing Mormon,
that's more likely to be a rootbeer than a real beer. But,
the thought counts. Ease of operation is important. Gravity
drain is also less dependant on equipment. Doesn't need a
balky generator to start, for example.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
Gravity drain is free and easy, and requires no other
equipment other than a
beer, which you enjoy while standing there saying "Yep. It's
draining."

Being Mormon, and the house belongs to a practicing Mormon,
that's more likely to be a rootbeer than a real beer. But,
the thought counts. Ease of operation is important. Gravity
drain is also less dependant on equipment. Doesn't need a
balky generator to start, for example.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
Gravity drain is free and easy, and requires no other
equipment other than a
beer, which you enjoy while standing there saying "Yep. It's
draining."

That's my concern. Might be horizontal pipes with sags.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

Don't count on it doing a complete enough job to prevent
damage from a
freeze-up. There are many reasons why portions of plumbing
may not
drain unless the lines are blown out with compressed air.

That's my concern. Might be horizontal pipes with sags.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

Don't count on it doing a complete enough job to prevent
damage from a
freeze-up. There are many reasons why portions of plumbing
may not
drain unless the lines are blown out with compressed air.

You think we should clean up our crappy language?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jules" wrote
in message
news On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:26:26 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Is, on mine. The wax ring is a bit sticky, so I smeared
vaseline on the wax top. Now, it works fine. I've had to
invest in cold packs, I keep sliding off and hitting my
head
on the sink.

this thread is rapidly going down the toilet...

You think we should clean up our crappy language?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jules" wrote
in message
news On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:26:26 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Is, on mine. The wax ring is a bit sticky, so I smeared
vaseline on the wax top. Now, it works fine. I've had to
invest in cold packs, I keep sliding off and hitting my
head
on the sink.

this thread is rapidly going down the toilet...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

Being Mormon, and the house belongs to a practicing Mormon,
that's more likely to be a rootbeer than a real beer.

I can't believe you said that. You are obviously a communist. :-)

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...

Being Mormon, and the house belongs to a practicing Mormon,
that's more likely to be a rootbeer than a real beer.

I can't believe you said that. You are obviously a communist. :-)

I havn't read anything about draining pipes, in the
scriptures or church materials. It's an interesting
question.

That's a fun web site. Nice, once in a while, to learn a
little bit about other religions. Catholics like to eat body
and blood. Jews have their Yarmulches. Muslims have thier
honor killings, jihads, wars, battles, and killings. And did
I mention they have an interesting tradition of killing
people? Wonder if that "wearing the environment" religion
includes young women, too?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
Please don't take this the wrong way, but as we can see at
the web site
below, many religions include some very odd practices. Is
there anything in
the Mormon religion which prohibits the draining of pipes?

http://listverse.com/2007/08/13/10-w...ous-practices/

But the chicken thing seems just as weird as the e-meter.
:-)

I havn't read anything about draining pipes, in the
scriptures or church materials. It's an interesting
question.

That's a fun web site. Nice, once in a while, to learn a
little bit about other religions. Catholics like to eat body
and blood. Jews have their Yarmulches. Muslims have thier
honor killings, jihads, wars, battles, and killings. And did
I mention they have an interesting tradition of killing
people? Wonder if that "wearing the environment" religion
includes young women, too?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
Please don't take this the wrong way, but as we can see at
the web site
below, many religions include some very odd practices. Is
there anything in
the Mormon religion which prohibits the draining of pipes?

http://listverse.com/2007/08/13/10-w...ous-practices/

But the chicken thing seems just as weird as the e-meter.
:-)

But the Muslims don't have their own official hotel. So they suck. :-)

http://www.palmyrainn.com/


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I havn't read anything about draining pipes, in the
scriptures or church materials. It's an interesting
question.

That's a fun web site. Nice, once in a while, to learn a
little bit about other religions. Catholics like to eat body
and blood. Jews have their Yarmulches. Muslims have thier
honor killings, jihads, wars, battles, and killings. And did
I mention they have an interesting tradition of killing
people? Wonder if that "wearing the environment" religion
includes young women, too?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
Please don't take this the wrong way, but as we can see at
the web site
below, many religions include some very odd practices. Is
there anything in
the Mormon religion which prohibits the draining of pipes?

http://listverse.com/2007/08/13/10-w...ous-practices/

But the chicken thing seems just as weird as the e-meter.
:-)

But the Muslims don't have their own official hotel. So they suck. :-)

http://www.palmyrainn.com/


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I havn't read anything about draining pipes, in the
scriptures or church materials. It's an interesting
question.

That's a fun web site. Nice, once in a while, to learn a
little bit about other religions. Catholics like to eat body
and blood. Jews have their Yarmulches. Muslims have thier
honor killings, jihads, wars, battles, and killings. And did
I mention they have an interesting tradition of killing
people? Wonder if that "wearing the environment" religion
includes young women, too?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
message ...
Please don't take this the wrong way, but as we can see at
the web site
below, many religions include some very odd practices. Is
there anything in
the Mormon religion which prohibits the draining of pipes?

http://listverse.com/2007/08/13/10-w...ous-practices/

But the chicken thing seems just as weird as the e-meter.
:-)

wrote

Don't count on it doing a complete enough job to prevent damage from a
freeze-up. There are many reasons why portions of plumbing may not
drain unless the lines are blown out with compressed air.

BTDT. Particularly traps, the bow from any kitchen or bathroom "snakes"
sprayers, and wherever there's a bow that traps water.

It was 4 below zero in the town near our cabin, and probably ten more than
that at the cabin. We'll see how good a job we did winterproofing when we
fire it up in the spring.

Steve