Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc. Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Murriel wrote:

Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc.

For four cycle engines use a good synthetic motor oil, I use Mobil 1
5W-30 in all my power equipment. For two cycle engines use a brand name
two cycle oil for the fuel-oil mix.

Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Not really, but you don't really have any other option unless you can
travel to one of the few states where you can get alcohol free gasoline.
To compensate you should put Sta-Bil in all your power equipment fuel,
even if you don't expect to store it that long as the alcoholic fuel
doesn't store well for even short periods.

Murriel wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc.

Which were simply rebranded (and therefor probably significantly more
expensive) automotive-grade oils...

Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

The only issue would be very old engines that might have some issues w/
o-rings, etc., in fuel system that are not alcohol-resistant. Anything
10 years or newer (and probably closer to 20 in reality) will have no
issues w/ 10% blends.

--

Pete C. wrote:
Murriel wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc.

For four cycle engines use a good synthetic motor oil, I use Mobil 1
5W-30 in all my power equipment. For two cycle engines use a brand name
two cycle oil for the fuel-oil mix.

Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Not really, but you don't really have any other option unless you can
travel to one of the few states where you can get alcohol free gasoline.
To compensate you should put Sta-Bil in all your power equipment fuel,
even if you don't expect to store it that long as the alcoholic fuel
doesn't store well for even short periods.

Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled the
tank (it is ab old cart)?

Lou

LouB wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Murriel wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc.

For four cycle engines use a good synthetic motor oil, I use Mobil 1
5W-30 in all my power equipment. For two cycle engines use a brand name
two cycle oil for the fuel-oil mix.

Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Not really, but you don't really have any other option unless you can
travel to one of the few states where you can get alcohol free gasoline.
To compensate you should put Sta-Bil in all your power equipment fuel,
even if you don't expect to store it that long as the alcoholic fuel
doesn't store well for even short periods.

Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled the
tank (it is ab old cart)?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think there's anything to back up the previous poster's assertions.

--

dpb wrote:
LouB wrote:
....
Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled the
tank (it is ab old cart)?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think there's anything to back up the previous poster's assertions.

Actually, if it is _really_ old, the possibility I raised earlier of
alcohol "working" on carb o-rings, gaskets, etc., could be an issue.
Just how old is "old"?

--

"Murriel" wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc.

Who the heck told you that? The dealer of the shop that wanted to sell you
that four dollar quart of oil?

Both Briggs and Tecumseh recommend the use of standard SAE 30 weight
detergent motor oil to be used in their engines. The only exception is Tec,
who recommends SAE 10w30 weight detergent motor oil for use in cold
temperatures.

Buy SAE 30 weight detergent oil. Change it once a year, when you sharpen
your blade. Always use fresh gas, and run it out at the end of the season.
Oh, and clean under the deck after each mow, and let it dry.

Jon

Jon Danniken wrote:
....
Both Briggs and Tecumseh recommend the use of standard SAE 30 weight
detergent motor oil to be used in their engines. The only exception is Tec,
who recommends SAE 10w30 weight detergent motor oil for use in cold
temperatures.
....

Ayup...

_MANY_ years ago (like 50 or so) many small 4-cycle engines did
recommend non-detergent oils, but that has been so long ago there are
precious few if any still running outside a collector's collection.

--

dpb wrote:
LouB wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Murriel wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc.

For four cycle engines use a good synthetic motor oil, I use Mobil 1
5W-30 in all my power equipment. For two cycle engines use a brand name
two cycle oil for the fuel-oil mix.

Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Not really, but you don't really have any other option unless you can
travel to one of the few states where you can get alcohol free gasoline.
To compensate you should put Sta-Bil in all your power equipment fuel,
even if you don't expect to store it that long as the alcoholic fuel
doesn't store well for even short periods.

Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled the
tank (it is ab old cart)?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think there's anything to back up the previous poster's assertions.

Thanks

dpb wrote:
dpb wrote:
LouB wrote:
...
Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled
the tank (it is ab old cart)?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think there's anything to back up the previous poster's
assertions.

Actually, if it is _really_ old, the possibility I raised earlier of
alcohol "working" on carb o-rings, gaskets, etc., could be an issue.
Just how old is "old"?

1987

Lou

Murriel wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc. Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Don't know about the oil but my 3 year old snowblowers manual says not
to use gas with alcohol in it. I had not noticed this and left
stabilized alcohol containing gas in it and it would not start. I
believe repair shop had to replace some seals.

On my 2 cycle Lawnboy, I was using a good brand 2 cycle oil but
constantly having to have carburetor cleaned. Now I only use their oil
and have not had any problems.

On Jun 16, 8:43*am, (Murriel) wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc. *Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. *Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

If you believe that special oil is needed, you have a problem.

LouB wrote:
dpb wrote:
dpb wrote:
LouB wrote:
...
Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled
the tank (it is ab old cart)?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think there's anything to back up the previous poster's
assertions.

Actually, if it is _really_ old, the possibility I raised earlier of
alcohol "working" on carb o-rings, gaskets, etc., could be an issue.
Just how old is "old"?

1987
....

I'd think that's on the cusp of probabilities. Possibly could find
info from either cart or engine manufacturer if it's a standard-issue
B&S or other common engine.

Did you check to make sure you've got spark, first, yet?

--

dpb wrote:

Not really, but you don't really have any other option unless you
can travel to one of the few states where you can get alcohol free
gasoline. To compensate you should put Sta-Bil in all your power
equipment fuel, even if you don't expect to store it that long as
the alcoholic fuel doesn't store well for even short periods.

Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled
the tank (it is ab old cart)?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think there's anything to back up the previous poster's
assertions.

You could probably gin up a simple still to separate the gasoline from the
alcohol. Alcohol boils at about 180°F and Octane at 260°F.

You'd have better fuel for your machine plus a little something to ease the
pain.

Wear safety goggles.

Pete C. wrote:
Murriel wrote:
....
Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Not really, ...

From B&S FAQ--

All 4 stroke cycle spark ignited engines

Fuel must meet these requirements:
* Clean, fresh, unleaded gasoline.
* A minimum of 87 octane/ 87 AKI (91 RON). ...
* Gasoline with up to 10% ethanol (gasohol) or up to 15% MTBE
(methyl tertiary butyl ether), is acceptable.

Except as noted earlier for older engines since ethanol is widespread
and in some areas mandated, it would be most surprising if the engine
manufacturers weren't building their engines to run on the available
fuels. (They aren't variable-fuel systems, though, so E85 is out since
they require new carburation, etc..)

While B&S does recommend adding fuel stabilizer to ensure fuel doesn't
get stale since most homeowners don't use fuel very rapidly, I'm
convinced that's an avoidance policy to attempt to minimize customer
complaints rather than a real need. If a little additive can all of a
sudden make fuel perfectly fine for 24 months, it would be quite
remarkable the fuel itself as manufactured isn't able to last even 10%
of that time span.

I've routinely let equipment over-winter w/o any special treatment and
never in 40+ years had any issues the following year/spring/summer.

I just took an old B&S on a tiller that hadn't been touched for 10 years
and the gas left in that tank was not as some might have one believe,
gel nor were there any significant deposits, etc. Dump the contents of
the tank and rinse it out, put a little carb cleaner through the jets, a
new plug and little thin oil in the cylinder and spin it a few times to
lube it up a little. After that it started on about the third or fourth
pull and runs just fine, thank you very much...

The lore is far overblown from the realities in my estimation and
according to my experience.

--

dpb wrote:
LouB wrote:
dpb wrote:
dpb wrote:
LouB wrote:
...
Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled
the tank (it is ab old cart)?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think there's anything to back up the previous poster's
assertions.

Actually, if it is _really_ old, the possibility I raised earlier of
alcohol "working" on carb o-rings, gaskets, etc., could be an issue.
Just how old is "old"?

1987
...

I'd think that's on the cusp of probabilities. Possibly could find
info from either cart or engine manufacturer if it's a standard-issue
B&S or other common engine.

Did you check to make sure you've got spark, first, yet?

--


Its only been broken for two months so I will get around to it sooner or
later:-))

dpb wrote:
LouB wrote:
dpb wrote:
dpb wrote:
LouB wrote:
...
Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I filled
the tank (it is ab old cart)?

Highly unlikely.

I don't think there's anything to back up the previous poster's
assertions.

Actually, if it is _really_ old, the possibility I raised earlier of
alcohol "working" on carb o-rings, gaskets, etc., could be an issue.
Just how old is "old"?

1987
...

I'd think that's on the cusp of probabilities. Possibly could find
info from either cart or engine manufacturer if it's a standard-issue
B&S or other common engine.

Did you check to make sure you've got spark, first, yet?
....

These other ideas always come not too long after the initial response...

The following is purely hypothesis; I've no factual basis other than the
recollection of an issue from ages gone by...

The other effect I can think of as an outside, remote possibility would
be whether an E10 blend could possibly dissolve previous varnish, etc.,
in an old engine and redeposit it throughout.

I had an incident years ago (like 35 or so, now) where I loaned a mower
to a neighbor who refilled it w/ white gas and used it for an hour or
so. The white gas did as described above and I ended up scrapping the
mower as the resulting film once the engine cooled seemed impervious to
any solvent including the white gas.

I'd not think that would happen w/ E10 or there would be thousands of
automobiles with serious problems but outside the aforementioned problem
w/ the rubber/plastic incompatibilities in the fuel system it's the only
thing regarding the ethanol itself I can come up with that would have to
do w/ the fuel itself.

Just a thought; as noted I think it highly unlikely...

--

dpb wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Murriel wrote:
...
Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Not really, ...

From B&S FAQ--

All 4 stroke cycle spark ignited engines

Fuel must meet these requirements:
* Clean, fresh, unleaded gasoline.
* A minimum of 87 octane/ 87 AKI (91 RON). ...
* Gasoline with up to 10% ethanol (gasohol) or up to 15% MTBE
(methyl tertiary butyl ether), is acceptable.

For current products. Many of us run products that are a decade or more
old.


Except as noted earlier for older engines since ethanol is widespread
and in some areas mandated, it would be most surprising if the engine
manufacturers weren't building their engines to run on the available
fuels. (They aren't variable-fuel systems, though, so E85 is out since
they require new carburation, etc..)

There is also a difference between "run on" and operate reliably over
time with.


While B&S does recommend adding fuel stabilizer to ensure fuel doesn't
get stale since most homeowners don't use fuel very rapidly, I'm
convinced that's an avoidance policy to attempt to minimize customer
complaints rather than a real need. If a little additive can all of a
sudden make fuel perfectly fine for 24 months, it would be quite
remarkable the fuel itself as manufactured isn't able to last even 10%
of that time span.

I've been storing fairly large quantities of gasoline for 1yr+ for years
and I can definitely tell you that Sta-Bil makes a huge difference. I
can also tell you that since we started getting alcoholic fuel it's
storage ability without Sta-Bil has decreased dramatically over the
non-alcoholic fuel without Sta-Bil. I don't yet have a solid
determination if Sta-Bil can keep the alcoholic fuel good as long as it
can the non-alcoholic fuel.


I've routinely let equipment over-winter w/o any special treatment and
never in 40+ years had any issues the following year/spring/summer.

In 25+ years I've had a number of items with issues in the spring after
being stored over winters and in every case it was stored with untreated
fuel.


I just took an old B&S on a tiller that hadn't been touched for 10 years
and the gas left in that tank was not as some might have one believe,
gel nor were there any significant deposits, etc.

Probably had Sta-Bil or similar added then, since I've seen equipment
left a mere two years with nasty sour fuel in the tank.

Dump the contents of
the tank and rinse it out, put a little carb cleaner through the jets, a
new plug and little thin oil in the cylinder and spin it a few times to
lube it up a little. After that it started on about the third or fourth
pull and runs just fine, thank you very much...

The lore is far overblown from the realities in my estimation and
according to my experience.

Not in my estimation nor experience.

PS: An ultrasonic cleaner full of warm Simple Green works wonders for
reviving a carb that's gunked up.

LouB wrote:
dpb wrote:
....
I'd think that's on the cusp of probabilities. Possibly could find
info from either cart or engine manufacturer if it's a standard-issue
B&S or other common engine.

Did you check to make sure you've got spark, first, yet?

Its only been broken for two months so I will get around to it sooner or
later:-))



Actually, for small engines 20 years is probably a little early for
specific ethanol compatibility; it was pretty standard by then for autos
but small engines tended to come along later. I remember the flap
roughly that time w/ the first ethanol and most specifically, it seemed,
w/ the Chrysler minivans that were all the newest rage at the time had
several incompatibilities.

So, I'd say it isn't out of the question it might have had a deleterious
effect on the carb being that age. Still, in those it didn't actually
keep them from running very often, mostly they had poor mileage from
internal leaks/bypasses and perhaps some external leaks as well. The
simpler small engine single cylinder might be more prone to just not
start, though.

Anyway, start w/ spark and go from there when you do get one of them
round tuits to use on this particular project.

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Pete C. wrote:
Murriel wrote:
...
Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

Not really, ...

From B&S FAQ--

All 4 stroke cycle spark ignited engines

Fuel must meet these requirements:
* Clean, fresh, unleaded gasoline.
* A minimum of 87 octane/ 87 AKI (91 RON). ...
* Gasoline with up to 10% ethanol (gasohol) or up to 15% MTBE
(methyl tertiary butyl ether), is acceptable.

Except as noted earlier for older engines since ethanol is widespread
and in some areas mandated, it would be most surprising if the engine
manufacturers weren't building their engines to run on the available
fuels. (They aren't variable-fuel systems, though, so E85 is out since
they require new carburation, etc..)

While B&S does recommend adding fuel stabilizer to ensure fuel doesn't
get stale since most homeowners don't use fuel very rapidly, I'm
convinced that's an avoidance policy to attempt to minimize customer
complaints rather than a real need. If a little additive can all of a
sudden make fuel perfectly fine for 24 months, it would be quite
remarkable the fuel itself as manufactured isn't able to last even 10%
of that time span.

I've routinely let equipment over-winter w/o any special treatment and
never in 40+ years had any issues the following year/spring/summer.

I just took an old B&S on a tiller that hadn't been touched for 10 years
and the gas left in that tank was not as some might have one believe,
gel nor were there any significant deposits, etc. Dump the contents of
the tank and rinse it out, put a little carb cleaner through the jets, a
new plug and little thin oil in the cylinder and spin it a few times to
lube it up a little. After that it started on about the third or fourth
pull and runs just fine, thank you very much...

The lore is far overblown from the realities in my estimation and
according to my experience.

--

Same here...
Over the last 25 years I have never used Stabil and never had any problems
with the mower , trimmer , chainsaw , ect being stored over the winter....

Of course, it's always good to read and follow the manual.
That said, it's also important to use good brand of motor
oil. For whatever reasons, the cheap oils don't run well in
air cooled engines.

My fav is Castrol, but other folks have had good experience
with other oils. I think anyone using other than castrol is
an impolite person who lacks graces. Let the flame wars
begin!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"dpb" wrote in message
...
Jon Danniken wrote:
....
Both Briggs and Tecumseh recommend the use of standard SAE
30 weight
detergent motor oil to be used in their engines. The only
exception is Tec,
who recommends SAE 10w30 weight detergent motor oil for
use in cold
temperatures.
....

Ayup...

_MANY_ years ago (like 50 or so) many small 4-cycle engines
did
recommend non-detergent oils, but that has been so long ago
there are
precious few if any still running outside a collector's
collection.

--

In article , dpb wrote:


Actually, for small engines 20 years is probably a little early for
specific ethanol compatibility; it was pretty standard by then for autos
but small engines tended to come along later. I remember the flap
roughly that time w/ the first ethanol and most specifically, it seemed,
w/ the Chrysler minivans that were all the newest rage at the time had
several incompatibilities.

Wouldn't those that did not require oil and gas mixture have come
along after ethanol was in large use and those most of those could
(should) be okay?

--
"I found what I thought was a REALLY good book,
called _Girl to Grab_. Imagine my surprise when I found
out it was volume 6 of the *Encyclopedia Britanica*!"
-Martin Mull

On Jun 16, 8:43*am, (Murriel) wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc. *Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. *Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

I don't know if I've just been lucky or what when it comes to using
ethanol gas in my small engine equipment??? But I've never had a
problem with it, so far. I have some old equipment as well. Like
about a 1970 vintage Simplicity riding lawnmower that refuses to
quit. I never even run out the gas tank at the end of the season and
it sits through a very long northern MN winter with NO stabilizer
either. It has always fired right back up when I need to use it in
the spring. Same old ethanol blended gas. Amazing. I also use
ethanol in my chainsaws (4 or 5 of them, I lost count) from a 1970's
Stihl to a 2008 Husqvarna. Never run the tanks out of them either. I
also store ethanol gas in 5 gallon plastic containers for up to 6
months at a time and have never had to waste a drop of it due to it
going bad. I could go on and on but I just have not seen or had a
problem using ethanol gas in any of my small engine equipment
regardless of its age. I also use a good quality 2 cycle oil but not
necessarily a name brand oil such as Stihl or Husqvarna. I think some
people who have problems with their lawn mowers, etc. not starting the
next season just blame the problem on the gas and take it in to a shop
and they maby have to put in a new spark plug or clean out the air
filter or something simple and charge a pretty penny and then tell the
customer it was a "stale gas problem." Just my opinion.....
Steve

As to oil, I use a good brand of 10w30, and be done with it.
Castrol is my brand of choice.

Gasohol. I'd avoid it as long as possible. Eventually, the
Fed will require all stations to serve it, and then you'll
have no choice.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Murriel" wrote in message
...
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden
tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those
devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub
Cadet,"
etc. Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal
has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden
tractors?

Very possible. Please try a squirt of ether on the air
filter, and see if it runs for a second. That helps define
the problem as fuel related.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"LouB" wrote in message
...

Could that be why my gas golf cart stopped starting after I
filled the
tank (it is ab old cart)?

Lou

Stormin Mormon wrote:

My fav is Castrol, but other folks have had good experience
with other oils. I think anyone using other than castrol is
an impolite person who lacks graces.

Castrol is an oil products marketer.

Union 76 (conocophilips) pumps it out of the ground, ships it, refines it,
and puts it into quart-sized containers.

I buy Union 76 oil. It's cheaper than the "fancy" brands, too.

Jon

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:

Actually, for small engines 20 years is probably a little early for
specific ethanol compatibility; it was pretty standard by then for autos
but small engines tended to come along later. I remember the flap
roughly that time w/ the first ethanol and most specifically, it seemed,
w/ the Chrysler minivans that were all the newest rage at the time had
several incompatibilities.

Wouldn't those that did not require oil and gas mixture have come
along after ethanol was in large use and those most of those could
(should) be okay?

I'm having difficulty parsing this...

Those "that did not require oil and gas mixture" to me means 4-cycle
engines. There have been 4-cycle small engines around "since forever"
so they definitely were around well before ethanol became widespread. I
was thinking specifically of the first relatively short-lived ethanol
boom during the Carter-era shortages that affected passenger vehicles
but not, to the best of my recollection, small engines so much...

--

In article , dpb wrote:


I'm having difficulty parsing this...
I had difficulty writing it, not enough coffee, I guess. (g)


Those "that did not require oil and gas mixture" to me means 4-cycle
engines. There have been 4-cycle small engines around "since forever"
so they definitely were around well before ethanol became widespread. I
was thinking specifically of the first relatively short-lived ethanol
boom during the Carter-era shortages that affected passenger vehicles
but not, to the best of my recollection, small engines so much...

--
What I was TRYING to say is that earlier in my life, all of my
mowers required the 4-cycle oil. My last few have run on regular gas
without the need for including the oil in the gas. Would THOSE (the ones
running on regular only) be more likely than the 4-cycle engines to be
more ethanol tolerant as they (seemed to me anyway) to come on to the
scene after ethanol was in wider use.

--
"I found what I thought was a REALLY good book,
called _Girl to Grab_. Imagine my surprise when I found
out it was volume 6 of the *Encyclopedia Britanica*!"
-Martin Mull

Steve wrote:
On Jun 16, 8:43 am, (Murriel) wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc. Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

I don't know if I've just been lucky or what when it comes to using
ethanol gas in my small engine equipment??? But I've never had a
problem with it, so far. I have some old equipment as well. Like
about a 1970 vintage Simplicity riding lawnmower that refuses to
quit. I never even run out the gas tank at the end of the season and
it sits through a very long northern MN winter with NO stabilizer
either. It has always fired right back up when I need to use it in
the spring. Same old ethanol blended gas. Amazing. I also use
ethanol in my chainsaws (4 or 5 of them, I lost count) from a 1970's
Stihl to a 2008 Husqvarna. Never run the tanks out of them either. I
also store ethanol gas in 5 gallon plastic containers for up to 6
months at a time and have never had to waste a drop of it due to it
going bad. I could go on and on but I just have not seen or had a
problem using ethanol gas in any of my small engine equipment
regardless of its age. I also use a good quality 2 cycle oil but not
necessarily a name brand oil such as Stihl or Husqvarna. I think some
people who have problems with their lawn mowers, etc. not starting the
next season just blame the problem on the gas and take it in to a shop
and they maby have to put in a new spark plug or clean out the air
filter or something simple and charge a pretty penny and then tell the
customer it was a "stale gas problem." Just my opinion.....
Steve

There is a product on the market now called 50FUEL
It's pure gasoline premixed to 50:1 oil/gas or 40:1
Shelf life of 2 years at least.
For things like trimmers and chainsaws, it seems to solve some starting
and run problems on my equipment. Retails for $4 - $5 /qt

Kurt Ullman wrote in
:

In article , dpb wrote:


I'm having difficulty parsing this...
I had difficulty writing it, not enough coffee, I guess. (g)


Those "that did not require oil and gas mixture" to me means 4-cycle
engines. There have been 4-cycle small engines around "since
forever" so they definitely were around well before ethanol became
widespread. I was thinking specifically of the first relatively
short-lived ethanol boom during the Carter-era shortages that
affected passenger vehicles but not, to the best of my recollection,
small engines so much...

was that Ethanol,or Methanol? Methanol is really bad news.
ethanol(E10) really didn't come into use (as fuel additive) until lately.


--
What I was TRYING to say is that earlier in my life, all of my
mowers required the 4-cycle oil. My last few have run on regular gas
without the need for including the oil in the gas. Would THOSE (the
ones running on regular only) be more likely than the 4-cycle engines
to be more ethanol tolerant as they (seemed to me anyway) to come on
to the scene after ethanol was in wider use.


Some small 2 cycle motors use oil injection,not a gas/oil mix.
current emissions regs forced a switch to non oil-burning motors.

I don't see why ethanol is affecting small motors,unless they used really
cheap seals.AFAIK,ethanol would not affect neoprene.I couldn't find
anything on the Dupont website about it's alcohol resistance,without
registering/logging on.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article , dpb wrote:


I'm having difficulty parsing this...
I had difficulty writing it, not enough coffee, I guess. (g)


Those "that did not require oil and gas mixture" to me means 4-cycle
engines. There have been 4-cycle small engines around "since forever"
so they definitely were around well before ethanol became widespread. I
was thinking specifically of the first relatively short-lived ethanol
boom during the Carter-era shortages that affected passenger vehicles
but not, to the best of my recollection, small engines so much...

--
What I was TRYING to say is that earlier in my life, all of my
mowers required the 4-cycle oil. My last few have run on regular gas
without the need for including the oil in the gas. Would THOSE (the ones
running on regular only) be more likely than the 4-cycle engines to be
more ethanol tolerant as they (seemed to me anyway) to come on to the
scene after ethanol was in wider use.

2-cycle engines use gas-oil mix.
4-cycle engines use straight gas and have a separate oil sump.

RB wrote:

There is a product on the market now called 50FUEL
It's pure gasoline premixed to 50:1 oil/gas or 40:1
Shelf life of 2 years at least.
For things like trimmers and chainsaws, it seems to solve some starting
and run problems on my equipment. Retails for $4 - $5 /qt

Wow, $16-$20 per gallon?! That's sure paying a lot extra for the
convenience of not spending 35 seconds dumping a little bottle of
pre-measured 2-cycle oil into a small gas can.

Pete C. wrote:
dpb wrote:
....
For current products. Many of us run products that are a decade or more
old.

And again, w/ the possible exception of seals or some plastics, it's
fine. The only problems would be with much older equipment that was
designed for leaded fuel which hasn't been available for almost 20 years.

I'm still running a JD 112 that is at least 40, a JD S92 that is at
least 30 so don't suspect you've got anything on me wrt the age of the
gear...

....

There is also a difference between "run on" and operate reliably over
time with.

See above...

....
I've been storing fairly large quantities of gasoline for 1yr+ for years
and I can definitely tell you that Sta-Bil makes a huge difference. ...

I see no point in storing "large quantities" of any fuel for over a
year. I was speaking of simply over-wintering, etc., typically 6-8
months max and not large quantities. What's the point in that, anyway?

I've routinely let equipment over-winter w/o any special treatment and
never in 40+ years had any issues the following year/spring/summer.

In 25+ years I've had a number of items with issues in the spring after
being stored over winters and in every case it was stored with untreated
fuel.

Sorry, I've had 15 years more and don't have problems--what can I tell
you other than I don't store fuel longer than a year.

I just took an old B&S on a tiller that hadn't been touched for 10 years
and the gas left in that tank was not as some might have one believe,
gel nor were there any significant deposits, etc.

Probably had Sta-Bil or similar added then, since I've seen equipment
left a mere two years with nasty sour fuel in the tank.

I can definitely assert it did _NOT_ have anything at all done to it
other than load it on the truck when we moved it and unload it and put
it in the shed here when we arrived.

....

Not in my estimation nor experience.

All I can say is it has never been an issue I've ever seen over the
periods stated...

PS: An ultrasonic cleaner full of warm Simple Green works wonders for
reviving a carb that's gunked up.

If I ever see one, I'll give it a go...

Doubt it would have helped on the lead-salt deposits in the old mower I
mentioned elsewhere in the thread, however...

--

Jim Yanik wrote:
....
was that Ethanol,or Methanol? Methanol is really bad news.
....

Hmmmm...good question and I don't recall otomh now. I'll have to check
but I'd forgotten that may have been methanol then. That would indeed
make a difference.

--

dpb wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
dpb wrote:
...
For current products. Many of us run products that are a decade or more
old.

And again, w/ the possible exception of seals or some plastics, it's
fine. The only problems would be with much older equipment that was
designed for leaded fuel which hasn't been available for almost 20 years.

I'm still running a JD 112 that is at least 40, a JD S92 that is at
least 30 so don't suspect you've got anything on me wrt the age of the
gear...


I have a 30+ Deere 110 riding mower, a Kubota B7100DT tractor, etc.

...

There is also a difference between "run on" and operate reliably over
time with.

See above...

...
I've been storing fairly large quantities of gasoline for 1yr+ for years
and I can definitely tell you that Sta-Bil makes a huge difference. ...

I see no point in storing "large quantities" of any fuel for over a
year. I was speaking of simply over-wintering, etc., typically 6-8
months max and not large quantities. What's the point in that, anyway?

The point is to have fuel on hand to refuel the mower for the 3.5 hrs or
so it takes to mow the lawn, have fuel to keep the generator going
during power failures, and also reserve fuel for long trips.


I've routinely let equipment over-winter w/o any special treatment and
never in 40+ years had any issues the following year/spring/summer.

In 25+ years I've had a number of items with issues in the spring after
being stored over winters and in every case it was stored with untreated
fuel.

Sorry, I've had 15 years more and don't have problems--what can I tell
you other than I don't store fuel longer than a year.

This fuel was generally well under a year as well, with the equipment
having been last fueled and run ~Oct and restarted in Mar or so.


I just took an old B&S on a tiller that hadn't been touched for 10 years
and the gas left in that tank was not as some might have one believe,
gel nor were there any significant deposits, etc.

Probably had Sta-Bil or similar added then, since I've seen equipment
left a mere two years with nasty sour fuel in the tank.

I can definitely assert it did _NOT_ have anything at all done to it
other than load it on the truck when we moved it and unload it and put
it in the shed here when we arrived.

Prior to your acquiring it.


...

Not in my estimation nor experience.

All I can say is it has never been an issue I've ever seen over the
periods stated...

PS: An ultrasonic cleaner full of warm Simple Green works wonders for
reviving a carb that's gunked up.

If I ever see one, I'll give it a go...

Doubt it would have helped on the lead-salt deposits in the old mower I
mentioned elsewhere in the thread, however...

Someone gave me a pressure washer they couldn't start. I pulled the carb
off, gave it 10 min in the ultrasonic cleaner, blew it dry with
compressed air, reinstalled it and the engine started right up and has
run fine ever since.

Pete C. wrote:
dpb wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
dpb wrote:
...
For current products. Many of us run products that are a decade or more
old.
And again, w/ the possible exception of seals or some plastics, it's
fine. The only problems would be with much older equipment that was
designed for leaded fuel which hasn't been available for almost 20 years.

I'm still running a JD 112 that is at least 40, a JD S92 that is at
least 30 so don't suspect you've got anything on me wrt the age of the
gear...


I have a 30+ Deere 110 riding mower, a Kubota B7100DT tractor, etc.

...

Well, if you're into the listing game, ( ) then there's the JD 955,
the JD 4440 and 4640, JLG 40H, w/o itemizing haying and harvesting
equipment, etc., ...

....

The point is to have fuel on hand to refuel the mower for the 3.5 hrs or
so it takes to mow the lawn, have fuel to keep the generator going
during power failures, and also reserve fuel for long trips.

If it's on hand for over a year, your capacity is too great is the point
and you've got much inventory aging that isn't doing anything useful.
Get the quantities on hand such that you're turning it over in a few
months at most.

And if it takes 3-1/2 hr to mow the lawn you need a larger mower or
better layout...or more goats. (Altho if I bag the lawn it can take
close to that w/ handling the clippings and if add in time for mowing
all the grounds around the outbuilings, corrals and feedlot and
equipment park areas it would be a couple days. Doesn't rain so much
here that have to do anything but the yard very often, thankfully.

We go thru couple thousand gal diesel/month during peak seasons of
planting/harvest. Gasoline consumption isn't near what diesel is, of
course, but still a 250 gal bulk tank doesn't make it through more than
3-4 months for the pickups and old trucks and so on so the little dabs
that the small engines use is the spillings, basically.

....

This fuel was generally well under a year as well, with the equipment
having been last fueled and run ~Oct and restarted in Mar or so.

Well, why did you go on about over a year then???

I just took an old B&S on a tiller that hadn't been touched for 10 years
and the gas left in that tank was not as some might have one believe,
gel nor were there any significant deposits, etc.
Probably had Sta-Bil or similar added then, since I've seen equipment
left a mere two years with nasty sour fuel in the tank.
I can definitely assert it did _NOT_ have anything at all done to it
other than load it on the truck when we moved it and unload it and put
it in the shed here when we arrived.

Prior to your acquiring it.

I bought it new and it has never been out of my possission, sorry...it
had been used the summer before we moved and parked as it was the last
time it was used in TN before returning to KS. Here the garden spot
was/is large enough I used the 5-ft tiller on the 955 and the 3-ft on
the old 112 and never bothered to get the little hand guy out until this
year I decided to see if the cultivator attachment might fit between the
rows. Turns out it did and in this sandy soil instead of the TN red
clay and rock and on flat ground instead of TN hillside it worked quite
nicely...

And of course the fuel left in the tank _was_ pretty nasty; I've never
said I'd not use fresh fuel in anything that was stagnant for over a
year for starting (altho it certainly would run quite unaffected to
simply fill the tank w/ fresh).

--

In article .com,
"Pete C." wrote:

RB wrote:

There is a product on the market now called 50FUEL
It's pure gasoline premixed to 50:1 oil/gas or 40:1
Shelf life of 2 years at least.
For things like trimmers and chainsaws, it seems to solve some starting
and run problems on my equipment. Retails for $4 - $5 /qt

Wow, $16-$20 per gallon?! That's sure paying a lot extra for the
convenience of not spending 35 seconds dumping a little bottle of
pre-measured 2-cycle oil into a small gas can.

But it's *pure* gasoline, Pete. Made by the Amish.

"Smitty Two" wrote:
"Pete C." wrote:

RB wrote:

There is a product on the market now called 50FUEL
It's pure gasoline premixed to 50:1 oil/gas or 40:1
Shelf life of 2 years at least.
For things like trimmers and chainsaws, it seems to solve some starting
and run problems on my equipment. Retails for $4 - $5 /qt

Wow, $16-$20 per gallon?! That's sure paying a lot extra for the
convenience of not spending 35 seconds dumping a little bottle of
pre-measured 2-cycle oil into a small gas can.

But it's *pure* gasoline, Pete. Made by the Amish.

You know the Germans always make good stuff.

Jon

Murriel wrote:
Years ago I was told not to use automotive oil in garden tractors and
lawn mowers but rather oil especially formulated for those devices,
such as brands bearing the names "Briggs and Stratton," "Cub Cadet,"
etc. Now I see that the gasoline at the staion where I deal has 10%
ethanol. Is this acceptable for lawn mowers and garden tractors?

You were misled about the oil, and the E10 fuel will not harm your
lawnmower.

s

Pete C. wrote:
RB wrote:
There is a product on the market now called 50FUEL
It's pure gasoline premixed to 50:1 oil/gas or 40:1
Shelf life of 2 years at least.
For things like trimmers and chainsaws, it seems to solve some starting
and run problems on my equipment. Retails for $4 - $5 /qt

Wow, $16-$20 per gallon?! That's sure paying a lot extra for the
convenience of not spending 35 seconds dumping a little bottle of
pre-measured 2-cycle oil into a small gas can.

I did the math.
I'm not driving to the gas station to fill up a 1-gallon can, nor buying
the oil separately. And I'm getting pure product with no ethanol.
My Ryobi trimmer had been giving me problems with hard starting and
running. It's much better with the first tank of this stuff.
A quart will last me about 2 months of summer usage.