I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve

SteveB wrote:
I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. ...
For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?
....
First, _why_ do you want the gas stove/range? That should determine
whether you're willing to wait or not.

Propane probably won't be any cheaper than the electric, might even be
more expensive depending on just how high LP is where you are as
compared to the electric rates.

The "chef" reasons for gas are immaterial one to the other imo (and, not
being particularly culinary, mostly overrated), but those are choices
only possible to be made on the basis of personal preference and/or
prejudice.

--

SteveB wrote:
I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve



No big difference in using it. There is very little difference between
natural gas and propane as far as using it goes. Natural gas is cheaper
than propane.

The deciding factor may be the initial cost. While the NG company may
charge you a fee for hookup, the propane will be quite a hefty initial
cost. The tank you will probably have to buy. The propane company will
do the install and hook everything up to your gas line. Depending upon
the size of your tank, that will be between 1200 and 1800 bucks
including the first fill of propane.

With either one, you are going to have to install gas lines to your
fixtures. I did my own and only had to pay for materials, so I can't
tell you what it would be for you. I put the stove and the water heater
on the propane. Left the AC/Heat as electric. Materials were about
150.00, not including stove and water heater.

I HATE electric stoves, so the choice was easy for me. YMMV

In addition, there are no inspections here in the country, so I did not
have to deal with that. Again, YMMV.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:07:07 GMT, Robert Allison wrote:

SteveB wrote:
I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve



No big difference in using it. There is very little difference between
natural gas and propane as far as using it goes. Natural gas is cheaper
than propane.

The deciding factor may be the initial cost. While the NG company may
charge you a fee for hookup, the propane will be quite a hefty initial
cost. The tank you will probably have to buy. The propane company will
do the install and hook everything up to your gas line. Depending upon
the size of your tank, that will be between 1200 and 1800 bucks
including the first fill of propane.

With either one, you are going to have to install gas lines to your
fixtures. I did my own and only had to pay for materials, so I can't
tell you what it would be for you. I put the stove and the water heater
on the propane. Left the AC/Heat as electric. Materials were about
150.00, not including stove and water heater.

I HATE electric stoves, so the choice was easy for me. YMMV

In addition, there are no inspections here in the country, so I did not
have to deal with that. Again, YMMV.

I don't know about the initial hookup, but it costs me $60 a year to rent a
500 gallon propane tank. It was already here when I bought the trailer.

As far a grilling goes, I have been able to use the NG grill on much colder
days than I could ever with propane. OTOH, the conversion from propane to
NG is fairly inexpensive. I think it cost about $30 for the grill
conversion kit (Great Outdoors grill, no longer being manufactured). For a
stove it is simply replacing the jets.

Mike D.

Mike Dobony wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:07:07 GMT, Robert Allison wrote:


SteveB wrote:

I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve



No big difference in using it. There is very little difference between
natural gas and propane as far as using it goes. Natural gas is cheaper
than propane.

The deciding factor may be the initial cost. While the NG company may
charge you a fee for hookup, the propane will be quite a hefty initial
cost. The tank you will probably have to buy. The propane company will
do the install and hook everything up to your gas line. Depending upon
the size of your tank, that will be between 1200 and 1800 bucks
including the first fill of propane.

With either one, you are going to have to install gas lines to your
fixtures. I did my own and only had to pay for materials, so I can't
tell you what it would be for you. I put the stove and the water heater
on the propane. Left the AC/Heat as electric. Materials were about
150.00, not including stove and water heater.

I HATE electric stoves, so the choice was easy for me. YMMV

In addition, there are no inspections here in the country, so I did not
have to deal with that. Again, YMMV.


I don't know about the initial hookup, but it costs me $60 a year to rent a
500 gallon propane tank. It was already here when I bought the trailer.

As far a grilling goes, I have been able to use the NG grill on much colder
days than I could ever with propane. OTOH, the conversion from propane to
NG is fairly inexpensive. I think it cost about $30 for the grill
conversion kit (Great Outdoors grill, no longer being manufactured). For a
stove it is simply replacing the jets.

Mike D.

This is true and if you can get the propane company to rent you the
tank, that is the way to go. For reasons that I don't like, they would
only sell one to me. If I had put my HVAC on gas, they would have
rented me a tank, but I didn't, so they wouldn't. Something about ALL
the fixtures must be on propane for them to rent. That may be different
in other areas.

When I first converted the stove, I just ran off a 60 gallon tank, which
I carried down to the propane place to refill. When I installed the
water heater, I didn't want to have to carry that down every 3 weeks or
so, so I rented the tank. 250 gallon.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:46:45 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?

Steve

Hi Steve,

I've cooked on electric, natural gas and, most recently, propane. I
currently live in an area where natural gas won't be available for at
least another ten years, so propane is what I use now. In my case,
propane is almost twice as costly as electric per BTU, but it does
allow me to prepare hot meals in the event of an extended power
outage; that's important to me. And given a choice, I prefer natural
gas or, alternatively, propane over electric for all the reasons
you've no doubt heard before.

I had a natural gas BBQ when I lived in Toronto and it was great
because you never worried about running out of propane (inevitably at
the worst possible time) and messing with tanks or transporting the
equivalent of a Ford Pinto in your trunk. My current BBQ is connected
to the main propane tank by way of a quick disconnect, so these same
benefits apply.

Just make sure the appliances you purchase can be easily converted to
natural gas when that happy day comes (not a problem in most cases,
but some BBQs cannot) and that the lines are properly sized for
natural gas -- depending upon the BTU load, a larger diameter line may
be required.

Cheers,
Paul

On Feb 15, 12:46*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
I live in a rural area currently with electric only. *No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. *We want a gas
stove. *Am considering propane. *I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. *Heats fast, bakes good. *We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. *And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. *Is there a big difference in that?

Steve

Its the same, its gas, Just get a stove that comes with or order now
conversion jets, my cooktop came with both.

SteveB wrote:

I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?

Steve

LP vs. Nat gas, effectively no difference, and cheap and easy to switch
a stove between them.

As for waiting, if it's just the stove you want, by all means get it,
set it for propane, and feed it from an ordinary purchased 100# LP tank.
If you aren't running the furnace, hot water, gas dryer, etc. your LP
use will be very low.

I have a dual fuel stove with 5 gas burners that runs from an ordinary
20# LP tank outside. I'm single, but I do like to cook so the stove gets
plenty of use and I have to swap the 20# tank every 8+ months. Unless
you have a huge family, it's highly unlikely you'd have to fill a 100#
tank more than once a year, you can fill it anywhere, and you aren't
paying rental on a huge LP tank you don't need.

If / when Nat. gas becomes available, you can hookup if you decide the
economics and the monthly service charge warrant it. If you still only
have a gas stove, and have no need to run anything else gas, I expect
the economics will show that just filling the LP tank once a year and
not paying any service charges is a better deal.

"dpb" wrote in message ...
SteveB wrote:
I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a
gas stove. ...
For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it
to wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then
convert when it gets there if we choose to?
...
First, _why_ do you want the gas stove/range? That should determine
whether you're willing to wait or not.

Propane probably won't be any cheaper than the electric, might even be
more expensive depending on just how high LP is where you are as compared
to the electric rates.

The "chef" reasons for gas are immaterial one to the other imo (and, not
being particularly culinary, mostly overrated), but those are choices only
possible to be made on the basis of personal preference and/or prejudice.

If you don't cook, how can you offer an opinion?

Gas cooks better. Electric sucks. Go to any restaurant and see if they use
electricity or gas.

Steve

SteveB wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message ...
SteveB wrote:
I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a
gas stove. ...
For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it
to wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then
convert when it gets there if we choose to?
...
First, _why_ do you want the gas stove/range? That should determine
whether you're willing to wait or not.

Propane probably won't be any cheaper than the electric, might even be
more expensive depending on just how high LP is where you are as compared
to the electric rates.

The "chef" reasons for gas are immaterial one to the other imo (and, not
being particularly culinary, mostly overrated), but those are choices only
possible to be made on the basis of personal preference and/or prejudice.

If you don't cook, how can you offer an opinion?

Gas cooks better. Electric sucks. Go to any restaurant and see if they use
electricity or gas.

Actually, they each have their benefits. I have dual fuel, which is
really the best of both, with gas burners up top, and electric
convection main and electric side ovens below.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:11:33 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

Actually, they each have their benefits. I have dual fuel, which is
really the best of both, with gas burners up top, and electric
convection main and electric side ovens below.

Hi Pete,

Initially, I wasn't too thrilled that my range was dual fuel, but it's
turned out to be the better choice afterall now that propane is more
expensive than electricity (at least locally) and because no
combustion by-products are released into the room. The one drawback
for me is that the forty amp breaker steals space in main panel that
could be used for other purposes; at this point, I have one slot
remaining.

Cheers,
Paul

SteveB wrote:
....

If you don't cook, how can you offer an opinion?

I simply asked -- if you're one of those who thinks that way, then that
should be your deciding factor imo...I personally don't happen to think
it makes a heck of a lot of difference, but for those who do, go for it...

---

"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:11:33 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

Actually, they each have their benefits. I have dual fuel, which is
really the best of both, with gas burners up top, and electric
convection main and electric side ovens below.

Hi Pete,

Initially, I wasn't too thrilled that my range was dual fuel, but it's
turned out to be the better choice afterall now that propane is more
expensive than electricity (at least locally) and because no
combustion by-products are released into the room. The one drawback
for me is that the forty amp breaker steals space in main panel that
could be used for other purposes; at this point, I have one slot
remaining.

Cheers,
Paul

I redid all my panels a couple years ago and with a 40 space main panel,
using two spaces for a surge suppresser, two for a generator feed and
electric everything, I've still got 6 spaces free.

For your panel, you could cheaply and easily add a sub panel should you
need more spaces, and depending on why you needed those extra spaces a
sub panel may be more desirable anyway. I have a 125A 32 space sub panel
out in my shop.

My point on the dual fuel was really that gas is preferable for surface
burners where the ability to adjust the heat with no lag time, and the
higher peak output are better, and the electric for the ovens where they
provide for generally better controls and often more even heat.

dpb wrote:

SteveB wrote:
...

If you don't cook, how can you offer an opinion?

I simply asked -- if you're one of those who thinks that way, then that
should be your deciding factor imo...I personally don't happen to think
it makes a heck of a lot of difference, but for those who do, go for it...

---

Having spent quite a bit of time cooking on both electric and gas at
different houses, it is entirely possible to cook good meals on either.
Having gas burners makes some tasks easier, and makes a few tasks
possible such a stir fry where few if any electric stoves have
sufficient heat output to work properly (even low end gas stoves aren't
adequate).

yep a 100 pound LP tank and stove with conversion parts on hand to
convert when NG becomes available..........

they did this on a ask this old house recently

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:03:17 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

I redid all my panels a couple years ago and with a 40 space main panel,
using two spaces for a surge suppresser, two for a generator feed and
electric everything, I've still got 6 spaces free.

For your panel, you could cheaply and easily add a sub panel should you
need more spaces, and depending on why you needed those extra spaces a
sub panel may be more desirable anyway. I have a 125A 32 space sub panel
out in my shop.

Hi Pete,

I have a 100-amp main panel with 32 half height breakers, but no means
to add a sub panel (finished area). I'd like to add a second ductless
heat pump to serve the basement level and it seems my best option is
to terminate the range cable in the laundry room and install a pony
panel that will serve both loads; given the oven is 5,200-watts, there
should be enough capacity for them to happily co-exist.

My point on the dual fuel was really that gas is preferable for surface
burners where the ability to adjust the heat with no lag time, and the
higher peak output are better, and the electric for the ovens where they
provide for generally better controls and often more even heat.

As you say, better temperature control is supposedly one key
advantage, although I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference.

Cheers,
Paul

"SteveB" wrote:

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

If you think there's a reasonable chance you will have NG available in the near
future (defined as the useful life of your appliances) and are reasonably
certain you will buy the hookup when NG does become available, sure.
Economically, you are probably better off staying with electric appliances until
you actually have NG available.

Historically, propane has been less expensive than eletricity, but more
expensive than NG. Lately propane & electricity are about even in cost per
equivilent BTU and both cost more than NG.

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?

NG has a slighly lower energy content than propane, but all that means is that
the jets are enlarged to allow more NG to flow. Cooking temps end up being the
same. There's no difference in taste to the food between the two. The real
benefit is not having to fill a portable propane tank every few weeks.

Rick Blaine wrote:

"SteveB" wrote:

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

If you think there's a reasonable chance you will have NG available in the near
future (defined as the useful life of your appliances) and are reasonably
certain you will buy the hookup when NG does become available, sure.
Economically, you are probably better off staying with electric appliances until
you actually have NG available.

Doubtful, since he would then have to purchase a new stove when NG
became available.


Historically, propane has been less expensive than eletricity, but more
expensive than NG. Lately propane & electricity are about even in cost per
equivilent BTU and both cost more than NG.

If he's just running a stove, LP will absolutely be cheaper than NG
since NG comes with a service charge every month, and for a stove only,
all he'll have to do is take a 100# LP tank to be filled once a year at
most and not pay any tank rental charges for a huge LP tank or service
charges for NG service.


I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?

NG has a slighly lower energy content than propane, but all that means is that
the jets are enlarged to allow more NG to flow. Cooking temps end up being the
same. There's no difference in taste to the food between the two. The real
benefit is not having to fill a portable propane tank every few weeks.

Fill a portable tank every few weeks???????? What planet are you on? Or
are you cooking for an entire town from a 20# LP tank? A 20# LP tank
runs my stove and I swap it out every 8-10 months.

"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:03:17 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

I redid all my panels a couple years ago and with a 40 space main panel,
using two spaces for a surge suppresser, two for a generator feed and
electric everything, I've still got 6 spaces free.

For your panel, you could cheaply and easily add a sub panel should you
need more spaces, and depending on why you needed those extra spaces a
sub panel may be more desirable anyway. I have a 125A 32 space sub panel
out in my shop.

Hi Pete,

I have a 100-amp main panel with 32 half height breakers, but no means
to add a sub panel (finished area).

A finished area doesn't mean you can't add a sub panel. Indeed if you
couldn't add a sub, how could you install new circuits to use up the
remaining space in the current panel? It's just a bit more work to fish
wires around, and a little less fun.

I'd like to add a second ductless
heat pump to serve the basement level and it seems my best option is
to terminate the range cable in the laundry room and install a pony
panel that will serve both loads; given the oven is 5,200-watts, there
should be enough capacity for them to happily co-exist.

Capacity is a function of the wire gauge, so you'd need to verify what
it's wired with. If it's a newer installation, the range feed should be
four wire which is what you'd need for a sub panel. If it's older three
wire then you can't repurpose it as a sub panel feed.


My point on the dual fuel was really that gas is preferable for surface
burners where the ability to adjust the heat with no lag time, and the
higher peak output are better, and the electric for the ovens where they
provide for generally better controls and often more even heat.

As you say, better temperature control is supposedly one key
advantage, although I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference.

It depends on the cooking you do as to how much you'd notice it, but I
certainly noticed that when I cook on electric I frequently have to
physically lift a pan off the burner when I turn it down since it will
take several seconds before the electric coil begins to cool vs. the
instant change in flame level with gas. Minor for small pans, but a real
pain for big heavy stuff, or when you are multitasking several burners
and can't spare the time to hold the pan in the air.

Pete C. wrote:
"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:11:33 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

Actually, they each have their benefits. I have dual fuel, which is
really the best of both, with gas burners up top, and electric
convection main and electric side ovens below.
Hi Pete,

Initially, I wasn't too thrilled that my range was dual fuel, but it's
turned out to be the better choice afterall now that propane is more
expensive than electricity (at least locally) and because no
combustion by-products are released into the room. The one drawback
for me is that the forty amp breaker steals space in main panel that
could be used for other purposes; at this point, I have one slot
remaining.

Cheers,
Paul

I redid all my panels a couple years ago and with a 40 space main panel,
using two spaces for a surge suppresser, two for a generator feed and
electric everything, I've still got 6 spaces free.

For your panel, you could cheaply and easily add a sub panel should you
need more spaces, and depending on why you needed those extra spaces a
sub panel may be more desirable anyway. I have a 125A 32 space sub panel
out in my shop.

My point on the dual fuel was really that gas is preferable for surface
burners where the ability to adjust the heat with no lag time, and the
higher peak output are better, and the electric for the ovens where they
provide for generally better controls and often more even heat.
I designed my kitchen 15 years ago (a
remodel) with a gas cooktop and an
electric oven. The gas cooktop is a
must for cooks. My electric oven works
well, however, I would never buy Dacor
again, but would definitely get another
electric oven. Now we are planning a
move to an area where NG is probably
not an option. We are definitely
planning on a propane cooktop and an
electric oven.

"Robert Allison" wrote in message
news:A2mtj.26$kI4.23@trnddc05...
Mike Dobony wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:07:07 GMT, Robert Allison wrote:
This is true and if you can get the propane company to rent you the tank,
that is the way to go.

I only have my stove on Propane (if you cook electric sucks - you cannot
control the temp with any type of fine degree. Though if you bake electric
ovens are the best). They wanted to start "renting" me the tanks for a
couple hudred dollars a year because I didn't use "enough" propane - that on
top of charging what amounts to twice the $ per gallon that any old place
will fill a 20lb tank for. They call it a premium becuase I only use so
much. That's when I told them to come get their tanks and I installed 2 40
lbers and a regulater bought at an RV store - got the idea when I saw all
these RV's driving around with dual tanks and figured "Hell" that's all I
need.. LOL! Now, not only do I pay less for propane I own the tanks. When
I run out on the grill I can "rob" a tank from my house (or vice versa).
The only "inconveniance" is a couple times a year I have to go 5 minutes
down the road to buy propane.

"Pete C." wrote:

Economically, you are probably better off staying with electric appliances until
you actually have NG available.

Doubtful, since he would then have to purchase a new stove when NG
became available.

- Electric appliances are generally cheaper than gas ones
- Some of the cost of said electric appliance could be recovered by selling it,
if & when get gets NG
- The cost of hooking (connection to the street) up to the NG service is not
going to be cheap
- Paying a NG billing charge every month, especially if the only thing hooked up
is a range is going to cost a packet
- There's no guarantee NG will become available

Economically, he's better off staying with an electric range. Personal
preference for cooking with gas trumps this, of course.

"Pete C." wrote:

A 20# LP tank
runs my stove and I swap it out every 8-10 months.

I've run a gas grill of a 20# tank, grill 3 or 4 times a week and needed to fill
every 3-4 weeks. I suppose if all you used were the burners, it would last
longer.

the new stoves come setup for nat, and have the LP orifices included.


s

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a
gas stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin
and it works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not
nearly as much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it
to wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then
convert when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve

Apparently you DON'T cook, like you said. Serious cooking cannot be
accomplished on an electric stove.


s



"dpb" wrote in message ...
The "chef" reasons for gas are immaterial one to the other imo (and, not
being particularly culinary, mostly overrated), but those are choices only
possible to be made on the basis of personal preference and/or prejudice.

--

Rick Blaine wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

Economically, you are probably better off staying with electric appliances until
you actually have NG available.

Doubtful, since he would then have to purchase a new stove when NG
became available.

- Electric appliances are generally cheaper than gas ones

Somewhat, but once you get above the basic models the difference
disappears quickly.

- Some of the cost of said electric appliance could be recovered by selling it,
if & when get gets NG

Almost never happens, at least in the US. People throw out perfectly
good appliances during a remodel... not that that's a good thing

- The cost of hooking (connection to the street) up to the NG service is not
going to be cheap

Nope, it will be free, the usual tactic of the gas utility to lock
people into their monthly service charges. When they run lines into a
neighborhood, they have crews there anyway and they want to get as many
hookups as possible to start paying for that line construction.

- Paying a NG billing charge every month, especially if the only thing hooked up
is a range is going to cost a packet

Exactly. If he had gas heat, hot water, clothes dryer, shop heat, etc.
it would generally be worthwhile. I don't think he's in a big heating
area though.

- There's no guarantee NG will become available

Correct.


Economically, he's better off staying with an electric range. Personal
preference for cooking with gas trumps this, of course.

If he likes to cook on gas, a 100# owned LP tank (or even a 40#
probably) would do just fine and be economical.

Rick Blaine wrote:

"Pete C." wrote:

A 20# LP tank
runs my stove and I swap it out every 8-10 months.

I've run a gas grill of a 20# tank, grill 3 or 4 times a week and needed to fill
every 3-4 weeks. I suppose if all you used were the burners, it would last
longer.

A 20# LP tank runs my 5 burner dual fuel range for 8-10 months. I'm
single, but I enjoy cooking and cook a lot, often with multiple burners
active. A 100# tank would surely last the OP a year, a 40# at least 6
months.

"S. Barker" wrote:

Apparently you DON'T cook, like you said. Serious cooking cannot be
accomplished on an electric stove.

Yes it can, but an electric stove limits some of your options. Gas is
vastly preferable of course.

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:46:45 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve


Steve, visit a local RV/mobile home business.. They can give you
ideas. many places as a child had duel propane tanks. LP tanks usage
was rotated when a tank was empty...turn one valve on and the other
off. The local company filled the empty tank, so you always had one
tank full of LP.

Before that is was splitting wood to cook (another stove)..

NG is the best for my cooking, BUT you may pay dearly to get it into
the house. Let the gas company bring the lines to you. Over time it
cost you less.

--
Oren

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 01:02:27 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

"S. Barker" wrote:

Apparently you DON'T cook, like you said. Serious cooking cannot be
accomplished on an electric stove.

Yes it can, but an electric stove limits some of your options. Gas is
vastly preferable of course.

I had an electromagnetic (?) range top once. All the cooking vessels
had to be tested with magnets... or they would not heat. Cast iron
worked and aluminum did not. Goood food.

--
Oren

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:50:32 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:

"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote:

I have a 100-amp main panel with 32 half height breakers, but no means
to add a sub panel (finished area).

A finished area doesn't mean you can't add a sub panel. Indeed if you
couldn't add a sub, how could you install new circuits to use up the
remaining space in the current panel? It's just a bit more work to fish
wires around, and a little less fun.

Well, I could add a sub panel but it would mean ripping out drywall
and re-framing, which is something I'd like to avoid if possible.
During the renovation phase, I pulled an extra 15-amp circuit to the
attic and this last slot is intended to feed this line should it ever
be required.

I'd like to add a second ductless
heat pump to serve the basement level and it seems my best option is
to terminate the range cable in the laundry room and install a pony
panel that will serve both loads; given the oven is 5,200-watts, there
should be enough capacity for them to happily co-exist.

Capacity is a function of the wire gauge, so you'd need to verify what
it's wired with. If it's a newer installation, the range feed should be
four wire which is what you'd need for a sub panel. If it's older three
wire then you can't repurpose it as a sub panel feed.

Good question. I believe the cable, which is now forty years old,
contains a black, red, white and ground, but I'd have to check this to
be sure. As to its gage, I can't imagine an issue, given that it was
installed at the time the house was built and presumably by a
qualified electrican and to code.

My point on the dual fuel was really that gas is preferable for surface
burners where the ability to adjust the heat with no lag time, and the
higher peak output are better, and the electric for the ovens where they
provide for generally better controls and often more even heat.

As you say, better temperature control is supposedly one key
advantage, although I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference.

It depends on the cooking you do as to how much you'd notice it, but I
certainly noticed that when I cook on electric I frequently have to
physically lift a pan off the burner when I turn it down since it will
take several seconds before the electric coil begins to cool vs. the
instant change in flame level with gas. Minor for small pans, but a real
pain for big heavy stuff, or when you are multitasking several burners
and can't spare the time to hold the pan in the air.

Sorry, I should have been more clear -- only with respect to the oven
portion and not the gas cook top.

Cheers,
Paul

Oren wrote:

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 01:02:27 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

"S. Barker" wrote:

Apparently you DON'T cook, like you said. Serious cooking cannot be
accomplished on an electric stove.

Yes it can, but an electric stove limits some of your options. Gas is
vastly preferable of course.

I had an electromagnetic (?) range top once. All the cooking vessels
had to be tested with magnets... or they would not heat. Cast iron
worked and aluminum did not. Goood food.

Induction. Seems to drift in and out of popularity.

Oren wrote:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:46:45 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve


Steve, visit a local RV/mobile home business.. They can give you
ideas. many places as a child had duel propane tanks. LP tanks usage
was rotated when a tank was empty...turn one valve on and the other
off. The local company filled the empty tank, so you always had one
tank full of LP.

Before that is was splitting wood to cook (another stove)..

NG is the best for my cooking,

No appreciable difference between NG and LP for cooking.

BUT you may pay dearly to get it into
the house.

Not if they are just bringing the lines into the neighborhood when
they're desperate to get people hooked up and paying monthly service
charges.

Let the gas company bring the lines to you.

At no charge.

Over time it
cost you less.

Not if all you run on gas is the stove. LP with an owned tank or two
will be much cheaper than paying a service charge to a gas company every
month. $20-$40 per year of LP will be a lot cheaper than paying like $8
per month just to have gas available, plus the cost of the gas you
actually use.

On Feb 15, 7:21�pm, Rick Blaine wrote:
"Pete C." wrote:
A 20# LP tank
runs my stove and I swap it out every 8-10 months.

I've run a gas grill of a 20# tank, grill 3 or 4 times a week and needed to fill
every 3-4 weeks. I suppose if all you used were the burners, it would last
longer.

i have picked up neighbors tanks they buy a new grill and put the old
grill at the curb. i piler the tanks, some were full. most had old
style valves so i take the tank to home depot and exchange the empty
for a full one with current valve, then refill it which is cheaper
when its empty again.

i have 6 or 7 tanks in my shed, we grill a lot, i never run out.

about once a year i get them all filled............

As you say, better temperature control is supposedly one key
advantage, although I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference.

Then you haven't cooked very much. With gas, it's on or it's off. Or it's
on just a little. Or it's on a lot. You can visually look at it and see
what it's doing.


It depends on the cooking you do as to how much you'd notice it, but I
certainly noticed that when I cook on electric I frequently have to
physically lift a pan off the burner when I turn it down since it will
take several seconds before the electric coil begins to cool vs. the
instant change in flame level with gas. Minor for small pans, but a real
pain for big heavy stuff, or when you are multitasking several burners
and can't spare the time to hold the pan in the air.

The perfect description of why many cooks like gas over electric. You must
have a different kind of electric stove than I. When I turn mine down, it
takes a LOT longer than "several seconds" to cool off. Sometimes it takes
until the food starts to burn, or is seriously overcooked.

For me, the OP, there is no question gas vs. electric. Gas wins out. I
was mainly wondering how people compare the two gases.

Steve

"Oren" wrote in message
. many places as a child had duel propane tanks.

I bet is was fun watching them fight

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:36:47 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

As you say, better temperature control is supposedly one key
advantage, although I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference.

Then you haven't cooked very much. With gas, it's on or it's off. Or it's
on just a little. Or it's on a lot. You can visually look at it and see
what it's doing.

I realize gas ovens cycle on and off (as do electric) and greater
variation in cooking temperature is possible (or so I'm told), but
having used both I've never found it to be a problem. Perhaps some
models have more accurate controls than others, or maybe newer ranges
in general work better than their older counterparts -- I really don't
know. All I can tell you is that I've never had reason to complain.

And for those less fortunate, help might be found he

http://www.ehow.com/how_8260_check-adjust-ovens.html

Cheers,
Paul

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a
gas stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin
and it works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not
nearly as much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it
to wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then
convert when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve

Last house had natural gas. I grew up with gas appliances. Moved here and
had electric. Hated it so we went to propane. No noticeable difference
between the two. You can always convert when the time comes. Put in a
line for the gill while you are at it.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Oren wrote:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:46:45 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I live in a rural area currently with electric only. No pun intended.
There are rumors of nat. gas coming soon, but who knows when. We want a
gas
stove. Am considering propane. I have a propane stove at the cabin and
it
works fine. Heats fast, bakes good. We don't use it a lot, not nearly
as
much as we would at the primary house.

For those who have/have had both propane and natural gas, is it worth it
to
wait for the natural gas, or just do the propane thing. And then
convert
when it gets there if we choose to?

I certainly like propane for grilling, but can't compare as I have never
used nat. for outdoor cooking. Is there a big difference in that?


Steve


Steve, visit a local RV/mobile home business.. They can give you
ideas. many places as a child had duel propane tanks. LP tanks usage
was rotated when a tank was empty...turn one valve on and the other
off. The local company filled the empty tank, so you always had one
tank full of LP.

Before that is was splitting wood to cook (another stove)..

NG is the best for my cooking,

No appreciable difference between NG and LP for cooking.

BUT you may pay dearly to get it into
the house.

Not if they are just bringing the lines into the neighborhood when
they're desperate to get people hooked up and paying monthly service
charges.

Let the gas company bring the lines to you.

At no charge.

Over time it
cost you less.

Not if all you run on gas is the stove. LP with an owned tank or two
will be much cheaper than paying a service charge to a gas company every
month. $20-$40 per year of LP will be a lot cheaper than paying like $8
per month just to have gas available, plus the cost of the gas you
actually use.

I did the math, and in the long run, the LP would be the cheapest. Now,
aside from that, we are about ready to add another 3.5 ton heat pump to our
ever expanding casa here. IF they get the gas in time, that would make it
preferable to have the NG for the gas pack on the heat pump. But I'd still
just keep the LP for cooking. We don't do a LOT of cooking, but enough to
justify turning this range into a boat anchor if I had the choice. Electric
stoves suck big time.

Steve

"Paul M. Eldridge" wrote:

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:36:47 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

As you say, better temperature control is supposedly one key
advantage, although I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference.

Then you haven't cooked very much. With gas, it's on or it's off. Or it's
on just a little. Or it's on a lot. You can visually look at it and see
what it's doing.

I realize gas ovens cycle on and off (as do electric) and greater
variation in cooking temperature is possible (or so I'm told), but
having used both I've never found it to be a problem. Perhaps some
models have more accurate controls than others, or maybe newer ranges
in general work better than their older counterparts -- I really don't
know. All I can tell you is that I've never had reason to complain.

And for those less fortunate, help might be found he

http://www.ehow.com/how_8260_check-adjust-ovens.html

Cheers,
Paul

From what I've seen, electric ovens tend to have better controls than
gas ovens do. Dual fuel is the way to go whether it's a dual fuel range,
or a gas cooktop and electric wall ovens.