I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin

In article ,
wrote:
Anyone have any suggestions?
Well I immediatly thought of solar panels but then had an idea about using
a small wind turbine. It would work night & day and put out about 2-6 Amps
@12v.

How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel?
If there was enough clearance on the inside of the wheel between it & the
body, fix full pully wheels around the diameter and use a long belt. That
would give you the gearing you need without much loss in power or slippage.

I'll not to draw it in ASCII art

HTH

--
Terminal_Crazy

Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6
Lancashire England http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/

look into a generator as compared to an alternator , produces voltage at lower
rpms , years ago , cabooses on trains had a similar system
the wheels would turn a generator which would charge storage batteries
for 12 volt systems on the caboose ,
as far as mounting the drive gear or pulley , look into mounting a pulley
directly to the spokes with the center of the pulley , lining up with the
center of the drive wheel , then its a simple matter of mounting the gen or
alt , and using a belt ,
a fully loaded alternator will require a bit of horsepower to keep it turning
and you may actually find that it will produce so much drag as to actually
cause to drive whell to lock up once it fully enrgizes , thats why i suggest
using a generator ,

cant beleive a fully charged deep cycle would only last 8 hours in this
instance , unless they are using headlights also ,




wrote:
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights onstheir
horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteriesnwhich last about
7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amishoneighbors charge them, or use a
gas generator. I was talking to oneeof them and he said he would like to
connect a car alternator to thetwheels. I told him that seems doable. That
got me thinking. Wiringba delco with built in regulator is easy. There are
two problems. in1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden
spoke wheel

wrote in message
...
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin


They have LED lights now and they use very little current, all auto
stores have them.

The Freon Cowboy wrote:
cant beleive a fully charged deep cycle would only last 8 hours in this
instance , unless they are using headlights also ,


I expect they are. I agree with you that a generator is the way to go. They
were used for years on both cars and airplanes and will generate electricity
with virtually any movement at all. The reason the auto and aircraft industry
shifted to alternators was the more even output. A car with a generator would
darken its lights markedly at a red light whereas a car equipped with an
alternator would not.


You can get one at JC Whitney for as little as $84.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...001596/c-10101

(Sorry for the long URL... alternately just go to http://jcwhitney.com and do a
search for "generator".



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Nov 8, 7:29 am, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote:
The Freon Cowboy wrote:
cant beleive a fully charged deep cycle would only last 8 hours in this
instance , unless they are using headlights also ,

I expect they are. I agree with you that a generator is the way to go. They
were used for years on both cars and airplanes and will generate electricity
with virtually any movement at all. The reason the auto and aircraft industry
shifted to alternators was the more even output. A car with a generator would
darken its lights markedly at a red light whereas a car equipped with an
alternator would not.

You can get one at JC Whitney for as little as $84.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...10101/Pr-p_Pro...

(Sorry for the long URL... alternately just go tohttp://jcwhitney.comand do a
search for "generator".

--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Leds are more efficient , my bicycle light of 5 red leds lasts 300
hours on 2 AA batteries. Getting enough rpm will be hard if the wheel
spins on the axle, you will need alot of gearing to get prm fast
enough to spin the generator. With Leds the battery will last many
times longer.

In article ,
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

The Freon Cowboy wrote:
cant beleive a fully charged deep cycle would only last 8 hours in this
instance , unless they are using headlights also ,


I expect they are.

Along with a GPS, electric foot warmer, and the Rockford Fosgates, of
course.

On Nov 8, 7:16 am, (The Freon Cowboy) wrote:
look into a generator as compared to an alternator , produces voltage at lower
rpms

No they don't. In fact higher output at lower RPMs is one of the main
reasons that alternators replaced generators. The other being lighter
weight.

nate

Alvin,

I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels.

I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical
lights were available?

Otherwise, I'd start with a switch to more efficient lighting so the
battery lasts longer.

I don't know if they still make them, but once upon a time you could get
lights for bicycles that were powered by a little generator that ran on the
top of the bike tire. Seems like it would be easy to adapt to a buggy.

Otherwise, maybe you could install a small gas powered generator? A hybrid
buggy?

But it seems like it's getting away from the Amish ideals to me?

Anthony

wrote:
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin

Hi,
How about solar panel?

Tony Hwang wrote:

wrote:

I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.
1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.
2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.
Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?
I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin

Hi,
How about solar panel?
And LED lights which draws very small amount of current.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:16:53 -0600, wrote:


Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

Use lanterns. If you're going to live in the bronze age, then electric lighting
isn't available.

According to HerHusband :

I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical
lights were available?

It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of
an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't
as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it
depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different
levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to
adapt to the modern world.

Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one
if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about
asking for a ride ;-)

Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when
Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the
corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either
to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and
stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a
telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an
outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation.

My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania
Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where
the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain
at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends.

I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators
will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power ;-)
too.

However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term
solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something
simple and mostly maintenance free is better.

Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

wrote in message
...
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Remember those bicycle lights that have a generator that rubs on the tire to
light the light? They might be AC output, so you'd need some diodes to charge
batteries, but they could be a good starting point. Add a "tire" to the
generator if the buggy wheels are not rubber. Obviously, the output current is
limited, so you either need small bulbs or multiple generators.

Bob

On Nov 8, 10:37 am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to HerHusband :

I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical
lights were available?

It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of
an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't
as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it
depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different
levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to
adapt to the modern world.

Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one
if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about
asking for a ride ;-)

Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when
Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the
corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either
to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and
stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a
telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an
outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation.

My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania
Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where
the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain
at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends.

I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators
will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power ;-)
too.

However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term
solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something
simple and mostly maintenance free is better.

Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Sounds like a good community to have a way station with a few solar
panels and a few group owned batteries on charge, swap out your
discharged battery for a charged one along the way. Wouldn't need to
be any bigger than an outhouse.

I think LED lights are the way to go! Way less complex than a
generator, very low power use, life near forever, no extra drag for
horses to pull. simple straighforward change.

even if you have a generator you will still need a battery for non
motion times.

LED should cost less too.

just go look at some current LED lanterns, WOW was my first thought.

If you REALLY want a generator get a small hand crank one the amish
kids can wind to keep the battery charged!

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:16:53 -0600, wrote:

I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin

One page PDF file for Amish Buggy LED lights - lumileds.com.

http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/AmishBuggy0903F.PDF

if they're going to bend the rules enough to put an alternator on the buggy,
THEY'd be better off buying some suitably sized solar panels to charge those
batteries during the day when not in use. I'm afraid by the time you geared
the alternator up with pulleys or gears, you'd have quite the drag on that
wheel. A typical GM self exciting alternator needs to spin about 2000 rpm
to get anything useful done.


steve


wrote in message
...
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin

According to beecrofter :

Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.

Sounds like a good community to have a way station with a few solar
panels and a few group owned batteries on charge, swap out your
discharged battery for a charged one along the way. Wouldn't need to
be any bigger than an outhouse.

Amish communitees are very well spread out. They're not towns,
they're farming regions with a mixture of Amish and non-Amish
farmers. In many cases the non-Amish outnumber the Amish
by a substantial margin.

In order to be useful, "way stations" would have to be impractically
numerous ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

wrote

I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries

of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?


Ineresting! What comes t my mind is the old bicycle lights. You know, the
ones that run off the spokes hitting the wheels? They generaly stop when
you stop, but might that be somesort of lead? I've seen ones for sale that
charge a small accessory battery so it runs for a bit when stopped.

I'e also seen solar powered bicycle lights, charge during the day stuff. I
didnt have much luck with the one I got, but then I only had a west/south
facing window to charge it in ad seldom got 'direct sun'. They don't give
alot of light, but several of them might do the trick as well as fit the
lifestye?

I found it amusing when we visited amish country in Indiana. We went to
their modern type general store that has gas lights and sunpipes and
skylights. So far so good. Then, all around the perimeter of the store
are modern refrigerator cases. What runs them??? A/C power made from
inverters off a bank of about 100 car batteries being charged by the
thermoking reefer unit out on the semi trailer. I goes out to look. Upon
this thermoking unit are 6, Yes count them SIX, high output General motors
style alternators to charge this bank of batteries. A huge 500 gallon
diesel tank stands near by to feed this fuel monster. Now how is that being
disconnected from society??? It's rediculous to burn all that diesel when
all he'd have to do it hook up to the electricty.

s


"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to HerHusband :

I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before
electrical
lights were available?

It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of
an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't
as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it
depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different
levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to
adapt to the modern world.

Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one
if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about
asking for a ride ;-)

Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when
Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the
corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either
to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and
stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a
telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an
outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation.

My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania
Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where
the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain
at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends.

I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators
will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power ;-)
too.

However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term
solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something
simple and mostly maintenance free is better.

Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Nov 8, 9:17 am, N8N wrote:
On Nov 8, 7:16 am, (The Freon Cowboy) wrote:

look into a generator as compared to an alternator , produces voltage at lower
rpms

No they don't. In fact higher output at lower RPMs is one of the main
reasons that alternators replaced generators. The other being lighter
weight.

nate

However, a permanent-magnet generator will charge a completely dead
battery. An alternator will not.

I don't think operating RPM is a big issue; as the top speed of a
horse and buggy is not that great. simply gear the alternator to be
running at its optimal RPM at "cruising speed."

nate

It seems like LED and a solarpanel is a great solution,and in these days
when environmental problems is discussed worldwide,it would definitely be a
positive solution for that too.
No emissions and also it will not need much maintenance so it would be a
great solution.
Solarpanels has also been improved and still are,next generation solarpanels
will be much more efficient then todays.
What I've heard they work really fine.
Regards

skrev i meddelandet
...
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin

I would be looking to use LED style lights instead and a bicycle
generator with maybe a solar panel too. I also think that using
automotive stuff would weight too much and have too much drag. Most
modern alternators create way too much current for just lights
anyway. Even an older 40A alternator wouldn't be as good as say going
to Nashbar's or Performance's website and using bicycle stuff
instead. Maybe if these Amish had electrical rear defoggers that they
were using then you might be able to justify something like an
automotive alternator.

To the person who said something about why are they even using
electricity in the first place, they aren't always necessarily against
it. It's more of a self sufficiency type of thing (meaning that in
some Amish communities it's OK to use electricity for certain things
as long as you generate it yourself).

Actually the solar panels are probably only a reasonable idea if they
park the buggy outside, I would think.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:34:13 -0800, wrote:

I would be looking to use LED style lights instead and a bicycle
generator with maybe a solar panel too.

Check out this buggy with amber flashers on front and rear. *
Buggy battery safety is important

* Ohio State University Fact Sheet
Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations
http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0596_4.html

The following fact sheets are available from Ohio State University
Extension:

Driving Safely in Amish Country, AEX 596
Buying the Right Battery for Your Buggy, AEX 596.1
Buggy Battery Safety, AEX 596.2
Buggy Highway Safety Tips for You and Your Family, AEX 596.3
Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations, AEX 596.4
Pedestrian Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.5
Bicycle Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.6
Boosting Visibility of Ag Equipment, AEX 598
Additional Marking of Horse Drawn Vehicles = Additional Safety, AEX
598.1
http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~agsafe...s/am_pubs.html

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:34:13 -0800, wrote:

I would be looking to use LED style lights instead and a bicycle
generator with maybe a solar panel too.

Check out this buggy with amber flashers on front and rear. *
Buggy battery safety is important

* Ohio State University Fact Sheet
Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations
http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0596_4.html

The following fact sheets are available from Ohio State University
Extension:

Driving Safely in Amish Country, AEX 596
Buying the Right Battery for Your Buggy, AEX 596.1
Buggy Battery Safety, AEX 596.2
Buggy Highway Safety Tips for You and Your Family, AEX 596.3
Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations, AEX 596.4
Pedestrian Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.5
Bicycle Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.6
Boosting Visibility of Ag Equipment, AEX 598
Additional Marking of Horse Drawn Vehicles = Additional Safety, AEX
598.1
http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~agsafe...s/am_pubs.html

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:34:13 -0800, wrote:

I would be looking to use LED style lights instead and a bicycle
generator with maybe a solar panel too.

Check out this buggy with amber flashers on front and rear. *
Buggy battery safety is important

* Ohio State University Fact Sheet
Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations
http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0596_4.html

The following fact sheets are available from Ohio State University
Extension:

Driving Safely in Amish Country, AEX 596
Buying the Right Battery for Your Buggy, AEX 596.1
Buggy Battery Safety, AEX 596.2
Buggy Highway Safety Tips for You and Your Family, AEX 596.3
Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations, AEX 596.4
Pedestrian Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.5
Bicycle Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.6
Boosting Visibility of Ag Equipment, AEX 598
Additional Marking of Horse Drawn Vehicles = Additional Safety, AEX
598.1
http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~agsafe...s/am_pubs.html

According to Steve Barker :
I found it amusing when we visited amish country in Indiana. We went to
their modern type general store that has gas lights and sunpipes and
skylights. So far so good. Then, all around the perimeter of the store
are modern refrigerator cases. What runs them??? A/C power made from
inverters off a bank of about 100 car batteries being charged by the
thermoking reefer unit out on the semi trailer. I goes out to look. Upon
this thermoking unit are 6, Yes count them SIX, high output General motors
style alternators to charge this bank of batteries. A huge 500 gallon
diesel tank stands near by to feed this fuel monster. Now how is that being
disconnected from society??? It's rediculous to burn all that diesel when
all he'd have to do it hook up to the electricty.

Nobody said it has to be entirely logical. Or at least to us.

Most religions have a number of things in them that seem more than
a trifle inconsistent or counter-productive or varies in surprising
ways from one place to another. Or at least to outsiders who don't
understand what the point of the whole thing is.

This will demystify it considerably:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish#Modern_technology

There are many things to admire in their way of life. We could all
do with a little less advertising for example. I just don't like some
of the other facets...
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to :
Actually the solar panels are probably only a reasonable idea if they
park the buggy outside, I would think.

Given how long their trips take, and mostly during the day at that
where lighting isn't necessary, it's probably not an issue.

Someone would have to do some simple calculations with specs
on candidate components to figure out how much daylight they'd
need.

Can't be too impractical, otherwise, solar lights wouldn't work -
usually capable of 8 hours or so using only a square inch or
two of collector and a single AA battery. Scale it up to a 4x4
or larger collector, and reasonably well chosen LED lights, I'm
sure it'd work quite well. Except after long period of truly
abysmal weather.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:16:53 -0600, wrote:

Check out this buggy with amber flashers on front and rear. *
Buggy battery safety is important

* Ohio State University Fact Sheet
Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations
http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0596_4.html

The following fact sheets are available from Ohio State University
Extension:

Driving Safely in Amish Country, AEX 596
Buying the Right Battery for Your Buggy, AEX 596.1
Buggy Battery Safety, AEX 596.2
Buggy Highway Safety Tips for You and Your Family, AEX 596.3
Buggy Lighting and Marking Recommendations, AEX 596.4
Pedestrian Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.5
Bicycle Safety in Amish Country,AEX 596.6
Boosting Visibility of Ag Equipment, AEX 598
Additional Marking of Horse Drawn Vehicles = Additional Safety, AEX
598.1
http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~agsafe...s/am_pubs.html

I repair office machines. a guy kept calling and missing me. but said
I have no phone.

found out later he was amish looking for parts for a old hand crank
ditto machine, that I used to service.

sadly he quit calling, he was ill in hospital I think he died.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 18:17:30 GMT, "Nightmare" wrote
Re Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy:

It seems like LED and a solarpanel is a great solution,and in these days
when environmental problems is discussed worldwide,it would definitely be a
positive solution for that too.
No emissions and also it will not need much maintenance so it would be a
great solution.
Solarpanels has also been improved and still are,next generation solarpanels
will be much more efficient then todays.
What I've heard they work really fine.

This (or similar) charger

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=1952

with LED lights should be cheaper and easier than any generator.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:15:01 -0800, N8N wrote:

On Nov 8, 9:17 am, N8N wrote:
On Nov 8, 7:16 am, (The Freon Cowboy) wrote:

look into a generator as compared to an alternator , produces voltage at lower
rpms

No they don't. In fact higher output at lower RPMs is one of the main
reasons that alternators replaced generators. The other being lighter
weight.

nate

However, a permanent-magnet generator will charge a completely dead
battery. An alternator will not.

I don't think operating RPM is a big issue; as the top speed of a
horse and buggy is not that great. simply gear the alternator to be
running at its optimal RPM at "cruising speed."

nate

Would that be a one horsepower generator or two?

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
Alvin,

I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels.

I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before
electrical
lights were available?

Otherwise, I'd start with a switch to more efficient lighting so the
battery lasts longer.

I don't know if they still make them, but once upon a time you could get
lights for bicycles that were powered by a little generator that ran on
the
top of the bike tire. Seems like it would be easy to adapt to a buggy.

Otherwise, maybe you could install a small gas powered generator? A hybrid
buggy?

But it seems like it's getting away from the Amish ideals to me?

Anthony

I donno. Why don't you go to Amish.com and ask them.

http://www.amish.com/

Jim
--
Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together?

wrote in message
...
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin


How about getting them saved? Then they would be free to drive a car
instead of being in stupid bondage. Many Amish own and drive vehicles.
Driving a buggy instead of a car will not get them to heaven and driving a
car will not send them to hell.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:37:04 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

According to HerHusband :

I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical
lights were available?

It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of
an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't
as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it
depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different
levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to
adapt to the modern world.

Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one
if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about
asking for a ride ;-)

Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when
Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the
corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either
to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and
stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a
telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an
outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation.

My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania
Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where
the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain
at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends.

I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators
will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power ;-)
too.

However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term
solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something
simple and mostly maintenance free is better.

Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.

You are pretty much correct about the more modern Amish. My neighbors
do have an outdoor phone in a small shed and are connected to an
answering service. Some of them have small electric generators and
will power up a standard trouble light when they shoe their horses
after dark. Their local sawmill is a huge diesel powered engine with
shafts and pulleys all over the place to power different devices.
They can drive a tractor, but not own one. They can not drive a car,
but can ride in them, and often do. I give them rides quite often. I
charge their batteries too. They are nice people. I find their
"rules" a little strange at times, but I accept them for what they
are. For example, they can not be hooked to the "grid" (electric
service), but they can use most anything electric if it connects to a
generator. My neighbor even has an electric razor and shaves in the
barn when his generator is running, which is used to run an air
compressor connected to a 500gallon LP tank. That air is used to pull
water from their community well. They have indoor plumbing, but only
cold water. They have to heat it on an outdoor wood burner, or on
their kitchen wood stove. They use gasoline or LP for their generator
or compressor, but can not have an LP cook stove or furnace. They can
smoke cigars, but not cigarettes.

You get the picture......

Like I said, they are nice people, but do things in strange ways.
Yet, who am I to say. At least they dont have an electric bill, and
the whole community shares the phone bill, and that is a good thing.

Therefore, an alternator or solar panels would be acceptable in THIS
community, but not others.

I enjoy their company and they love to come over and watch movies with
me. Of course a few of their younger kids have found ways to hide
portable DVD players which they power off their 12V battery until dad
finds out why the battery is dead......

Alvin

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:32:37 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

According to :
Actually the solar panels are probably only a reasonable idea if they
park the buggy outside, I would think.

Given how long their trips take, and mostly during the day at that
where lighting isn't necessary, it's probably not an issue.

Someone would have to do some simple calculations with specs
on candidate components to figure out how much daylight they'd
need.

Can't be too impractical, otherwise, solar lights wouldn't work -
usually capable of 8 hours or so using only a square inch or
two of collector and a single AA battery. Scale it up to a 4x4
or larger collector, and reasonably well chosen LED lights, I'm
sure it'd work quite well. Except after long period of truly
abysmal weather.

Actually, their Sunday church services begin around sunrise and they
generally do not come home until 9 or 10 pm. It's more than "church".
They have a meal or two, the youngers ones play games later in the
day, the older ones socialize and discuss their business and horses.
They can not do any work on Sundays except to care for their horses
and other animals. They work most of the time the other 6 days of the
week, so Sunday is their day to relax. My point is that they often
come home from their Sunday worship after dark, particularly when the
days are shorter. Some travel 10 to 15 miles each way. Those horses
do work hard at times.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:07:53 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 18:35:48 -0500, Jeff DeWitt wrote:

wrote:
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Alvin


The Amish are fascinating, and there is an excellent website about the
"Plain People".

http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml

Jeff DeWitt

Yeah, but don't overlook the really negative things about them. It's not at all
pretty and quaint. It's a cult. Women and children are "property" and the
accepted way to communicate with them is to beat them. Nice.



Like ALL religions, there are good and bad. There has been a big
thing on the news in the last year about one that beat and had sex
with relatives and the whole thing seems to give a bad image of all of
them. It's one bad apple...... I have never seen any beatings around
here. They have better marriages than most non-Amish from waht I see.
On the other hand, when there is a divorce, the woman can never marry
again, (unless the man dies). It's not all quaint or pretty. They
work hard and work most of the time. Yet, they seem to be happier
than most people and dont have all the problems and debt that many
others have. Their concepts of sharing the phone bill, the well, etc
saves money, and when they need a barn, all of of them work together,
which makes for closer families. There's a good and bad side to
everything and to all people. Whether it's a cult or not, I really
can not say. I think most if not all religions are a cult in some
manner. Even those so well accepted in our world, such as the
Catholics are cult-like. I am not here to judge anyone's beliefs. If
people are happy, then that's what matters. Some of them do leave the
Amish too. Either way, they are an interesting people and I enjoy
living near them. They are usually the first to help me when I have a
problem and that says something about them.

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 08:11:26 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.

1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.

2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.

Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
anyone ever done anything like this?

I'm having fun with this project....

Remember those bicycle lights that have a generator that rubs on the tire to
light the light? They might be AC output, so you'd need some diodes to charge
batteries, but they could be a good starting point. Add a "tire" to the
generator if the buggy wheels are not rubber. Obviously, the output current is
limited, so you either need small bulbs or multiple generators.

Bob



It looks like LED lights and solar panels WIN in this thread, and I
can surely relate to both as a good alternative. Solar panels are
cheap to run too, once they are paid for. I wish they made some
bicycle generators that were a higher output. I think those common
ones are just 1.5 volts (or less). Too bad they dont make a 12V model
(or do they?).

Anyone know of any sources on the web for higher output 12v bicycle
type generators? What is a good source for both solar panels and
bright headlight type LED lights?

One thing mentioned were lanterns. I ma not sure just why they dont
use them on their buggies. Maybe they do not meet the requirements of
the law. or maybe it's the fire hazzard, or just the cost of kerosene?
I will have to ask. I do see them sold on websites that sell parts
for horsedrawn buggies and wagons, but it seems they are more
decoration that useful.....

Thanks for all the advice.

Alvin