I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

In article . com, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)


--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Jan 25, 5:34 pm, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article . com, "Terry" wrote:

I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)



So far one open and one closed. Don't ya just love Usenet?


It reminds me of a thread I started once in a support group.

Can pets get hepatitis?

1) yes
2) no
3) not unless you are having rough sex with it.

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:34:02 GMT, Malcolm Hoar wrote:


In article . com, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)


Of course that'll only work if you don't use AC. In the summer you'll heat
the room with all that escaping heated water vapor and raise your cooling
bill.

Terry wrote in message
. com...
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.


I open the door to let the steam out, then close it.

Cheri

On Jan 25, 3:26 pm, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

With my Whirlpool 980, I've never used the dry cycle in 20 years. I
always just leave the door closed, but then again I don't unload the
dishwasher for quite awhile.

Now you've got me curious, why don't you run a couple of tests and then
report back?

In article , AZ Nomad wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:34:02 GMT, Malcolm Hoar wrote:


In article . com, "Terry"
wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)


Of course that'll only work if you don't use AC. In the summer you'll heat
the room with all that escaping heated water vapor and raise your cooling
bill.

Most dishwashers will vent the warm air into the kitchen
anyway, although there are some exceptions including some
Bosch models that vent the steam down the waste line.
In most cases, I doubt the HVAC impact of door open .v.
closed will be very significant. In any event, the original
question was about which method would dry the dishes
faster (not cheaper).

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Jan 25, 2:26 pm, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?


Terry-

I've been doing this "no electric heat" dishwasher dry for YEARS.

Here's what I have found works best.

First, always select "no heat" dry so if you forget to intervene, you
still will use less energy.

Cancel / end the dishwasher cycle when the dry cycle starts, open the
door to let the "steam" escape, close door again & let dishes sit for
awhile until the unit cools down, open the dishwasher & let the dishes
finish by air drying.

Now this is fair amount of fiddling to save some energy so I shortcut
the method to .....wash dishes right before going to bed, cancel / end
cycle when dry cycle starts, open dishwasher & let sit over
night.....dishes dry in the am.

Having conditioned air changes the equation somewhat;

in the summer if you use AC , the heat & mositures from the dishwasher
dry cycle will have to be removed by the AC. If you let the dishes air
dry, the AC will still have to remove the extra moisture generated by
the dishes drying. I don't need / have AC so I have really done the
calcs to determine the best option but my guess it that the AC will do
less work if oyu let the dishes air dry.

OR you could figure out a way to dump the moist air outside (like a dry
vent)

In heating season, adding some moisture to the house is probably a good
thing as long as you don't generate moisture problems (condensation)
but a dishwasher load probably doesn't have all that much water (as
compared to a dryer load of clothes). BTW the heater will supply the
energy to dry the dishes.

cheers
Bob

Another Usenet myth. I have a Bosch dishwasher and it does not vent the
moisture down the drain. How could it? The trap would stop all but fairly
strong air pressure. Also, most dishwashers are tied into the drainline
along with either the sink or garbage disposal ahead of the trap, and the
moisture would just come up through that route.

"Malcolm Hoar" wrote in message
...
In article , AZ
Nomad wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:34:02 GMT, Malcolm Hoar wrote:


In article . com,
"Terry"
wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)


Of course that'll only work if you don't use AC. In the summer you'll
heat
the room with all that escaping heated water vapor and raise your cooling
bill.

Most dishwashers will vent the warm air into the kitchen
anyway, although there are some exceptions including some
Bosch models that vent the steam down the waste line.
In most cases, I doubt the HVAC impact of door open .v.
closed will be very significant. In any event, the original
question was about which method would dry the dishes
faster (not cheaper).

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The heat and moisture are in the kitchen. It has to escape and evaporate,
there is no where to go but the kitchen, either quickly as you open the door
or slowly if you keep it closed.

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...


On Jan 25, 2:26 pm, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?


Terry-

I've been doing this "no electric heat" dishwasher dry for YEARS.

Here's what I have found works best.

First, always select "no heat" dry so if you forget to intervene, you
still will use less energy.

Cancel / end the dishwasher cycle when the dry cycle starts, open the
door to let the "steam" escape, close door again & let dishes sit for
awhile until the unit cools down, open the dishwasher & let the dishes
finish by air drying.

Now this is fair amount of fiddling to save some energy so I shortcut
the method to .....wash dishes right before going to bed, cancel / end
cycle when dry cycle starts, open dishwasher & let sit over
night.....dishes dry in the am.

Having conditioned air changes the equation somewhat;

in the summer if you use AC , the heat & mositures from the dishwasher
dry cycle will have to be removed by the AC. If you let the dishes air
dry, the AC will still have to remove the extra moisture generated by
the dishes drying. I don't need / have AC so I have really done the
calcs to determine the best option but my guess it that the AC will do
less work if oyu let the dishes air dry.

OR you could figure out a way to dump the moist air outside (like a dry
vent)

In heating season, adding some moisture to the house is probably a good
thing as long as you don't generate moisture problems (condensation)
but a dishwasher load probably doesn't have all that much water (as
compared to a dryer load of clothes). BTW the heater will supply the
energy to dry the dishes.

cheers
Bob

"BobK207" wrote in
oups.com:



On Jan 25, 2:26 pm, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy
hog so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher.
When I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?


Terry-

I've been doing this "no electric heat" dishwasher dry for YEARS.

Here's what I have found works best.

First, always select "no heat" dry so if you forget to intervene, you
still will use less energy.

Cancel / end the dishwasher cycle when the dry cycle starts, open the
door to let the "steam" escape, close door again & let dishes sit for
awhile until the unit cools down, open the dishwasher & let the dishes
finish by air drying.

Now this is fair amount of fiddling to save some energy so I shortcut
the method to .....wash dishes right before going to bed, cancel / end
cycle when dry cycle starts, open dishwasher & let sit over
night.....dishes dry in the am.

Having conditioned air changes the equation somewhat;

in the summer if you use AC , the heat & mositures from the
dishwasher
dry cycle will have to be removed by the AC. If you let the dishes
air dry, the AC will still have to remove the extra moisture generated
by the dishes drying. I don't need / have AC so I have really done
the calcs to determine the best option but my guess it that the AC
will do less work if oyu let the dishes air dry.

OR you could figure out a way to dump the moist air outside (like a
dry vent)

In heating season, adding some moisture to the house is probably a
good thing as long as you don't generate moisture problems
(condensation) but a dishwasher load probably doesn't have all that
much water (as compared to a dryer load of clothes). BTW the heater
will supply the energy to dry the dishes.

cheers
Bob




in the summer if you use AC , the heat & mositures from the
dishwasher
dry cycle will have to be removed by the AC.

Whether you use a dry cycle or not the moisture goes in the house. It
may disappear into thin air but it comes out someplace be it out the
door, under the dishwasher, under the counter, etc. The rate at which it
comes out would be what varies.

In article s.com, "EXT" wrote:
Another Usenet myth. I have a Bosch dishwasher and it does not vent the
moisture down the drain. How could it? The trap would stop all but fairly
strong air pressure. Also, most dishwashers are tied into the drainline
along with either the sink or garbage disposal ahead of the trap, and the
moisture would just come up through that route.

Some (not all) Bosch models have what they call
"Condensation Drying".

I don't know how well it works in reality but it is
most certainly a feature that Bosch advertise and
their description of it seems reasonably sensible:

http://www.boschappliances.com/highlight.
cfm?product_id=375&htype=2#highlight_25

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Leave the door open. Being warm does not help if there is no place for
the moisture to go.

In the winter go ahead and use the dry cycle. There will be very little
cost since the heat used will go towards warming your home. On the other
hand during the summer with the A/C on you take a double hit since you pay
for the heat and then you pay to pump it outside.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit


"Terry" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Leave the door open. Being warm does not help if there is no place for
the moisture to go.

In the winter go ahead and use the dry cycle. There will be very little
cost since the heat used will go towards warming your home.

True.

On the other
hand during the summer with the A/C on you take a double hit since you pay
for the heat and then you pay to pump it outside.

Not true (for most dishwashers). Most vent the heat into the
kitchen anyway (during the dry cycle). Where else do you
think it goes? Opening the door after the rinse cycle has
completed and before the drying cycle has started simply
vents the heat more rapidly. The total energy released is
essentially the same either way.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:17:35 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:34:02 GMT, Malcolm Hoar wrote:


In article . com, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)


Of course that'll only work if you don't use AC. In the summer you'll heat
the room with all that escaping heated water vapor and raise your cooling
bill.

Do you think you will heat the room less if the water vapor is trapped
in the dishwasher?

Let me think about this. hmmmm Actually, if the door is open and
the water evaporates, it will actually cool the room, specifically the
surface that the water was sitting on and the air nearby. Whenever
water evaporates, it cools. And it raises the humidity.

But if you left the door shut after the cycle was over, the heat would
still disperse in all directions, through the door, the metal top (and
the counter above it), the metal back (and the wall behind it), the
metal sides and bottom and cabinets and floor next to them. It would
take a while and you couldn't sense it, but the AC would still have to
remove the heat to reach the thermostat setting.

What about the water that cooled but didn't evaporate? It would still
evaporate when you opened the dishwasher door, it would still cool**
just as much, and it would still raise the humidity just as much, but
it would have taken longer.

**I forget what it is called but it takes a lot of heat to turn water
from a liquid to a gas, many times more than it does to raise the temp
of water 1 degree. The water absorbs the heat from other things,
making the other things cooler.

In article , mm wrote:

**I forget what it is called but it takes a lot of heat to turn water
from a liquid to a gas,

latent heat of vaporization.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:02:54 -0500, mm wrote:
Let me think about this. hmmmm Actually, if the door is open and
the water evaporates, it will actually cool the room, specifically the
surface that the water was sitting on and the air nearby. Whenever
water evaporates, it cools. And it raises the humidity.

That is asuming that you're working with cold to room-temperature
water. Flip a shower all the way to hot and open the shower door and I
can assure you that the bathroom will not be cooling down.

I have a Bosch dishwasher and it utilizes this condensation drying
technique; I'm pretty sure all Bosch dishwasher with stainless steel
interiors work the same way.

Overall, it does the job quite well. Drying may take a little longer,
but this isn't a problem if you run the dishwasher overnight.
Sometimes a small amount of water can remain on various items, such as
the bottom of plastic cups and bowls (the ones with outer rings) or on
the recessed surfaces of plastic serving utensils. I don't honestly
recall if this was a problem with my previous dishwasher (a Frigidaire
Pro Gallery) or if it's something unique to Bosch.

The key advantages of this approach are as follows:

1) it's more energy efficient, since no additional energy is
required to dry the dishes;
2) it's more sanitary in the sense that it doesn't draw room
air through the dishwasher, which may in turn deposit dust
and dirt on dishware;
3) it doesn't exhaust heat and moisture into the room which can
add to your home's air conditioning load; moisture condenses
on the interior surface of the dishwasher and is subsequently
disposed down the drain;
4) it's quieter, in that it doesn't provide a direct path for sound
to leak out; and,
5) it eliminates the heating element at the bottom of the tub,
thereby increasing the amount of usable space inside the
dishwasher.

Cheers,
Paul

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 01:41:28 GMT, (Malcolm Hoar)
wrote:

In article s.com, "EXT" wrote:
Another Usenet myth. I have a Bosch dishwasher and it does not vent the
moisture down the drain. How could it? The trap would stop all but fairly
strong air pressure. Also, most dishwashers are tied into the drainline
along with either the sink or garbage disposal ahead of the trap, and the
moisture would just come up through that route.

Some (not all) Bosch models have what they call
"Condensation Drying".

I don't know how well it works in reality but it is
most certainly a feature that Bosch advertise and
their description of it seems reasonably sensible:

http://www.boschappliances.com/highlight.
cfm?product_id=375&htype=2#highlight_25

In article , ess wrote:
On 25 Jan 2007 15:59:02 -0800, "mg" wrote:



On Jan 25, 3:26 pm, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

It actually evaporates better with the door closed because of the trapped
heat...

Not exactly. At the end of the wash/rinse cycles the air inside
the dishwasher is pretty much saturated with water (and cooling
unless there's a heated dry cycle). Evaporation into water-saturated
(and cooling) air just doesn't work very well. You gotta get some
of the moisture out of there.

There may be some merit to opening the door (while the dishes
are still hot) allowing a lot of moisture to escape and then
quickly reclosing the door to retain as much heat as possible.

In other words, trapped heat will help the evaporation and
trapped moisture will hinder it. At the end of the day, you've
got to get the water out of the dishwasher if you want dry
dishes. I still maintain that an open door approach will aid
that process.




--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Terry wrote:
..My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

The heat accelerates the drying process, but the steam may inhibit it.
So the most efficient solution may be to open the door immediately after
the wash cycle completes to allow the steam to escape, then close it to
to have the heat help dry the dishes.

As others have stated, conduct some experiments and post the results.

On Jan 25, 10:06 pm, Bob wrote:
Terry wrote:
..My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

The heat accelerates the drying process, but the steam may inhibit it.
So the most efficient solution may be to open the door immediately after
the wash cycle completes to allow the steam to escape, then close it to
to have the heat help dry the dishes.

As others have stated, conduct some experiments and post the results.

I will just use the spatula wet if I need it before tomorrow.

I do like the tip to go ahead and use the dry cycle in the winter
though.

I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)


Of course that'll only work if you don't use AC. In the summer you'll
heat
the room with all that escaping heated water vapor and raise your cooling
bill.


Yes, but in the winter you would be adding heat and moisture to the living
space
;-)

In article .com, "Terry" wrote:
On Jan 25, 10:06 pm, Bob wrote:
Terry wrote:
..My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

The heat accelerates the drying process, but the steam may inhibit it.
So the most efficient solution may be to open the door immediately after
the wash cycle completes to allow the steam to escape, then close it to
to have the heat help dry the dishes.

As others have stated, conduct some experiments and post the results.

I will just use the spatula wet if I need it before tomorrow.

I really think we should discuss the merits and otherwise of wet
spatulas before you commit to any rash actions like that!

These things are rarely as simple as they might first appear ;-)

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:30:49 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:02:54 -0500, mm wrote:
Let me think about this. hmmmm Actually, if the door is open and
the water evaporates, it will actually cool the room, specifically the
surface that the water was sitting on and the air nearby. Whenever
water evaporates, it cools. And it raises the humidity.

That is asuming that you're working with cold to room-temperature
water. Flip a shower all the way to hot and open the shower door and I
can assure you that the bathroom will not be cooling down.

The first sentence in the previous post dealt with the heat of the
water warming the room. Of course the hot water will warm the room,
but it will do that whether the dishwasher door is shut or open. Just
more slowly if it is shut, but the AC doesn't care if the heat is
added slowly or quickly. It has to work just as hard to remove the
heat.

So in sum total during that time you'll be heating the kitchen, but
the evaporation of the water lessens the increase in temperature.
Same for a hot shower.

(I know the water vapor is not trapped in the dishwasher but a) even
IF for the sake of argument it were trapped, it would still heat the
room the same amount as it cooled off, and b) if the door is shut, the
water vapor's escape is slowed.)

On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Al Bundy wrote:
"BobK207" wrote groups.com:





On Jan 25, 2:26 pm, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy
hog so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher.
When I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Terry-

I've been doing this "no electric heat" dishwasher dry for YEARS.

Here's what I have found works best.

First, always select "no heat" dry so if you forget to intervene, you
still will use less energy.

Cancel / end the dishwasher cycle when the dry cycle starts, open the
door to let the "steam" escape, close door again & let dishes sit for
awhile until the unit cools down, open the dishwasher & let the dishes
finish by air drying.

Now this is fair amount of fiddling to save some energy so I shortcut
the method to .....wash dishes right before going to bed, cancel / end
cycle when dry cycle starts, open dishwasher & let sit over
night.....dishes dry in the am.

Having conditioned air changes the equation somewhat;

in the summer if you use AC , the heat & mositures from the
dishwasher
dry cycle will have to be removed by the AC. If you let the dishes
air dry, the AC will still have to remove the extra moisture generated
by the dishes drying. I don't need / have AC so I have really done
the calcs to determine the best option but my guess it that the AC
will do less work if oyu let the dishes air dry.

OR you could figure out a way to dump the moist air outside (like a
dry vent)

In heating season, adding some moisture to the house is probably a
good thing as long as you don't generate moisture problems
(condensation) but a dishwasher load probably doesn't have all that
much water (as compared to a dryer load of clothes). BTW the heater
will supply the energy to dry the dishes.

cheers
Bob

in the summer if you use AC , the heat & mositures from the
dishwasher
dry cycle will have to be removed by the AC.Whether you use a dry cycle or not the moisture goes in the house. It
may disappear into thin air but it comes out someplace be it out the
door, under the dishwasher, under the counter, etc. The rate at which it
comes out would be what varies.


Whether you use a dry cycle or not the moisture goes in the house. It
may disappear into thin air but it comes out someplace be it out the
door, under the dishwasher, under the counter, etc. The rate at which
it
comes out would be what varies.


And your point?

In article , mm wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:30:49 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:02:54 -0500, mm wrote:
Let me think about this. hmmmm Actually, if the door is open and
the water evaporates, it will actually cool the room, specifically the
surface that the water was sitting on and the air nearby. Whenever
water evaporates, it cools. And it raises the humidity.

That is asuming that you're working with cold to room-temperature
water. Flip a shower all the way to hot and open the shower door and I
can assure you that the bathroom will not be cooling down.

The first sentence in the previous post dealt with the heat of the
water warming the room. Of course the hot water will warm the room,
but it will do that whether the dishwasher door is shut or open. Just
more slowly if it is shut, but the AC doesn't care if the heat is
added slowly or quickly. It has to work just as hard to remove the
heat.

By the end of the rinse cycle, the vast majority of the
hot water has been flushed down the waste line. The remaining
heat is stored mainly in the dishwasher lining and the
dishes. That really isn't very much heat in the grand scheme
of things. And whether the door is open or closed, most of
that heat will disperse into the kitchen as you say. However,
the impact on the HVAC isn't going to be terribly significant;
there simply isn't very much energy involved.

Heat recovery from the waste water might become an interesting
proposition at some point in the future.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Jan 25, 5:09 pm, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article , AZ Nomad wrote:



On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:34:02 GMT, Malcolm Hoar wrote:

Gary Player. |
|http:// In article . com, "Terry"
wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?

Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)

Of course that'll only work if you don't use AC. In the summer you'll heat
the room with all that escaping heated water vapor and raise your cooling
bill.Most dishwashers will vent the warm air into the kitchen
anyway, although there are some exceptions including some
Bosch models that vent the steam down the waste line.
In most cases, I doubt the HVAC impact of door open .v.
closed will be very significant. In any event, the original
question was about which method would dry the dishes
faster (not cheaper).


In any event, the original
question was about which method would dry the dishes
faster (not cheaper).


good catch! everyone (including me) is discussing cheaper!

On Jan 25, 7:17 pm, "Terry" wrote:
On Jan 25, 10:06 pm, Bob wrote:

Terry wrote:
..My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?
The heat accelerates the drying process, but the steam may inhibit it.
So the most efficient solution may be to open the door immediately after
the wash cycle completes to allow the steam to escape, then close it to
to have the heat help dry the dishes.

As others have stated, conduct some experiments and post the results.I will just use the spatula wet if I need it before tomorrow.

I do like the tip to go ahead and use the dry cycle in the winter
though.

I do like the tip to go ahead and use the dry cycle in the winter
though.

USing the the dry cycle in the winter only makes economic sense if
electric heat is cheaper than furnace heat.

cheers
Bob

In article , AZ Nomad wrote:

Of course that'll only work if you don't use AC. In the summer you'll heat
the room with all that escaping heated water vapor and raise your cooling
bill.

Garbage. It vents into the room anyway. The only difference is between a
little bit at a time, and all at once.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Malcolm Hoar wrote:
In article , "Joseph
Meehan" wrote:
Leave the door open. Being warm does not help if there is no
place for the moisture to go.

In the winter go ahead and use the dry cycle. There will be very
little cost since the heat used will go towards warming your home.

True.

On the other
hand during the summer with the A/C on you take a double hit since
you pay for the heat and then you pay to pump it outside.

Not true (for most dishwashers). Most vent the heat into the
kitchen anyway (during the dry cycle). Where else do you
think it goes? Opening the door after the rinse cycle has
completed and before the drying cycle has started simply
vents the heat more rapidly. The total energy released is
essentially the same either way.


I guess I did not make it clear. I was referring to using the dry cycle
where the dishwasher turns on additional heat to speed the drying. Of
course the residual heat in the washer would always end up in the kitchen.
I assume some or all dishwashers do add additional heat during the dry cycle
as mine did many years ago.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Leave the door open. Being warm does not help if there is no place for
the moisture to go.

I agree.

On Jan 25, 6:17 pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:34:02 GMT, Malcolm Hoar wrote:
In article . com, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the energy hog
so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher. When
I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?
Typically, door open. And yes, skipping the heated drying cycle
will normally save a significant amount of energy. However, it
could be different for your dishwasher/kitchen so I'd suggest
you conduct your own experiment versus believing everything you
read on Usenet ;-)Of course that'll only work if you don't use AC. In the summer you'll heat
the room with all that escaping heated water vapor and raise your cooling
bill.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -


Where do you think the heat from the dishwasher goes in summer with the
door closed? With it closed or open, it doesn't matter. One way it
gets into the house quickly, the other slowly.

In article om, wrote:
Leave the door open. Being warm does not help if there is no place for
the moisture to go.

I agree.

IT DOESN'T MATTER. Dishwashers vent the steam out the front anyway, with the
door closed. The heat and moisture all wind up in the room anyway, regardless
of whether the door is closed or open. The only difference is that with the
door closed, the heat and moisture come out slowly, over a longer period of
time -- versus all at once with the door open.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:42:01 GMT, Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:

I have a Bosch dishwasher and it utilizes this condensation drying
technique; I'm pretty sure all Bosch dishwasher with stainless steel
interiors work the same way.

Overall, it does the job quite well. Drying may take a little longer,
but this isn't a problem if you run the dishwasher overnight.
Sometimes a small amount of water can remain on various items, such as
the bottom of plastic cups and bowls (the ones with outer rings) or on
the recessed surfaces of plastic serving utensils. I don't honestly
recall if this was a problem with my previous dishwasher (a Frigidaire
Pro Gallery) or if it's something unique to Bosch.

The key advantages of this approach are as follows:

1) it's more energy efficient, since no additional energy is
required to dry the dishes;
2) it's more sanitary in the sense that it doesn't draw room
air through the dishwasher, which may in turn deposit dust
and dirt on dishware;
3) it doesn't exhaust heat and moisture into the room which can
add to your home's air conditioning load; moisture condenses
on the interior surface of the dishwasher and is subsequently
disposed down the drain;
4) it's quieter, in that it doesn't provide a direct path for sound
to leak out; and,
5) it eliminates the heating element at the bottom of the tub,
thereby increasing the amount of usable space inside the
dishwasher.

How does the water get heated for the wash cycle, without the heating
element at the bottom?

Cheers,
Paul

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 01:41:28 GMT, (Malcolm Hoar)
wrote:

In article s.com, "EXT" wrote:
Another Usenet myth. I have a Bosch dishwasher and it does not vent the
moisture down the drain. How could it? The trap would stop all but fairly
strong air pressure. Also, most dishwashers are tied into the drainline
along with either the sink or garbage disposal ahead of the trap, and the
moisture would just come up through that route.

Some (not all) Bosch models have what they call
"Condensation Drying".

I don't know how well it works in reality but it is
most certainly a feature that Bosch advertise and
their description of it seems reasonably sensible:

http://www.boschappliances.com/highl...2#highlight_25

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 01:41:28 GMT, (Malcolm Hoar)
wrote:

In article s.com, "EXT" wrote:
Another Usenet myth. I have a Bosch dishwasher and it does not vent the
moisture down the drain. How could it? The trap would stop all but fairly
strong air pressure. Also, most dishwashers are tied into the drainline
along with either the sink or garbage disposal ahead of the trap, and the
moisture would just come up through that route.

Some (not all) Bosch models have what they call
"Condensation Drying".

I don't know how well it works in reality but it is
most certainly a feature that Bosch advertise and
their description of it seems reasonably sensible:

http://www.boschappliances.com/highl...2#highlight_25


" Condensation Drying
Unlike other drying systems that use unclean air from the kitchen’s
back wall, Bosch uses the residual heat from the warm water inside its
tub. A sanitizing temperature of 161°F leaves residual heat in the
tub, creating condensation along the cooler wall. The condensation is
then drained so you’ll never have to release steam into the kitchen."

This sounds like puffing to me. Why would the walls be cooler than
the steam? Alternatively, why would the walls be cooler than the
walls of other dishwashers...Because their last water was higher than
161? How much higher might it be? Not much I think.

In answer to my own question in another post, it warms the water not
with a heater in the bottom but with a "Flow-Through Water Heater™
In traditional heating elements, water falls randomly onto a coil,
which warms it inefficiently and creates a hazard. By passing it
through a heating chamber instead, Bosch allows the water to reach
temperatures of up to 161°F safely and quickly. This means you can
place plastic items in the bottom rack without fear of melting or
damage."

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 20:52:11 -0800, ess wrote:

On 25 Jan 2007 20:41:41 -0800, "BobK207" wrote:



On Jan 25, 7:17 pm, "Terry" wrote:
On Jan 25, 10:06 pm, Bob wrote:

Terry wrote:
..My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside with
the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the water
evaporate?
The heat accelerates the drying process, but the steam may inhibit it.
So the most efficient solution may be to open the door immediately after
the wash cycle completes to allow the steam to escape, then close it to
to have the heat help dry the dishes.

As others have stated, conduct some experiments and post the results.I will just use the spatula wet if I need it before tomorrow.

I do like the tip to go ahead and use the dry cycle in the winter
though.

I do like the tip to go ahead and use the dry cycle in the winter
though.

USing the the dry cycle in the winter only makes economic sense if
electric heat is cheaper than furnace heat.

I think a lot of this depends on where you live. I live in a very dry area so extra
humidity is welcome in the winter but it also means my dishes dry very fast without
heat.

True, they dry fast without extra heat.

But first part: You won't get extra humidity by using heat. You'll
get the same, except maybe some water will have time to drip off and
go down the drain** before it evaporates. You could consider
attaching a humidifier to your furnace. You would feel warmer with
the same temp, so you could use a lower temp and feel just as warm.

**How much water does the pump pump out. Is there what is basically a
trap at the bottom of the dishwasher, or does the pump pump the bottom
dry and rely on the trap below the sink. If the pipes at the bottom
don't hold as much as they could after the water part of the whole
cycle is over, then water dripping off would just sit in the pipes,
where I suppose it would evaporate slowly, double slowly.

"BobK207" wrote in
oups.com:



On Jan 25, 5:29 pm, Al Bundy wrote:
"BobK207" wrote
groups.com:





On Jan 25, 2:26 pm, "Terry" wrote:
I have been told that the dry cycle of the dishwasher is the
energy hog so I quit using it.

I was going to use something I had just washed in the dishwasher.
When I opened the door it was still warm inside.

My question is will the dishes dry faster if I leave them inside
with the door closed (while warm) or open the door and let the
water evaporate?

Terry-

I've been doing this "no electric heat" dishwasher dry for YEARS.

Here's what I have found works best.

First, always select "no heat" dry so if you forget to intervene,
you still will use less energy.

Cancel / end the dishwasher cycle when the dry cycle starts, open
the door to let the "steam" escape, close door again & let dishes
sit for awhile until the unit cools down, open the dishwasher & let
the dishes finish by air drying.

Now this is fair amount of fiddling to save some energy so I
shortcut the method to .....wash dishes right before going to bed,
cancel / end cycle when dry cycle starts, open dishwasher & let sit
over night.....dishes dry in the am.

Having conditioned air changes the equation somewhat;

in the summer if you use AC , the heat & mositures from the
dishwasher
dry cycle will have to be removed by the AC. If you let the dishes
air dry, the AC will still have to remove the extra moisture
generated by the dishes drying. I don't need / have AC so I have
really done the calcs to determine the best option but my guess it
that the AC will do less work if oyu let the dishes air dry.

OR you could figure out a way to dump the moist air outside (like a
dry vent)

In heating season, adding some moisture to the house is probably a
good thing as long as you don't generate moisture problems
(condensation) but a dishwasher load probably doesn't have all that
much water (as compared to a dryer load of clothes). BTW the
heater will supply the energy to dry the dishes.

cheers
Bob

in the summer if you use AC , the heat & mositures from the
dishwasher
dry cycle will have to be removed by the AC.Whether you use a dry
cycle or not the moisture goes in the house. It
may disappear into thin air but it comes out someplace be it out the
door, under the dishwasher, under the counter, etc. The rate at which
it comes out would be what varies.


Whether you use a dry cycle or not the moisture goes in the house. It
may disappear into thin air but it comes out someplace be it out the
door, under the dishwasher, under the counter, etc. The rate at which
it
comes out would be what varies.


And your point?



===

Best point I could do with text...

There's a "flow through" inline heater inside the equipment area.

Cheers,
Paul

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:34:06 -0500, mm
wrote:

How does the water get heated for the wash cycle, without the heating
element at the bottom?

In article , Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
There's a "flow through" inline heater inside the equipment area.

This is a very attractive feature, IMO. My next dishwasher will
likely be a Bosch for this (and some other) reasons.

Over the years I've lost quite a few utensils and small plastic
or wood items to the more conventional exposed heating element.
It's annoying when it happens, the smell can be unpleasant and
the risk of a more serious fire (although very small) worries
me greatly as does the potential for one of my kids to stick
their hands in there.

For me, eliminating the exposed element just seems like really
good, thoughtful design.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mm writes:

" Condensation Drying
Unlike other drying systems that use unclean air from the kitchen’s
back wall, Bosch uses the residual heat from the warm water inside its
tub. A sanitizing temperature of 161°F leaves residual heat in the
tub, creating condensation along the cooler wall. The condensation is
then drained so you’ll never have to release steam into the kitchen."

This sounds like puffing to me. Why would the walls be cooler than
the steam? Alternatively, why would the walls be cooler than the
walls of other dishwashers...Because their last water was higher than
161? How much higher might it be? Not much I think.

I don't have a Bosch, but suppose they arrange for cool room air to flow
around the outside of the stainless tub. That would keep the tub cool,
and keep the dew point of the inside of the dishwasher at about room
temperature. The dishes, still considerably hotter than room
temperature, will evaporate water into this air more readily than what's
usually inside a dishwasher (where the dew point is equal to the
temperature of the dishes.

If this is correct, then the heat is dumped into the room, but the
moisture is not (because it condenses into water inside the tub). The
dishes are dried with the clean air inside the dishwasher, rather than
fresh air drawn in from the kitchen. And there is no additional heater
involved, so no danger of anything being melted by the extra heat.

But it would require a metal tub, not a plastic one, to use the tub as
the heat exchanger.

Dave