in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.

Steve Kraus wrote:
...

Leave off the gratuitous dictionary explanation next time.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed?

How do we know the adjustments are not major ones? Considering you need
to look up the dictionary for common words, your expertise in
estimating the severity of the adjustments needed can't be relied upon.
Did they come to your house and measure the opening and suggest an
appliance, which, as it later turned out, would not fit?

Sears, if it in in bad shape (which I thought was no longer the case),
is there because of incompetence in its ownership.

In article .net,
Steve Kraus wrote:

in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.

friend of mine bought a dishwasher from Best Buy with installation. He
pulled his old one the day before his new was to be installed. Guy pulls
up with his new one and brings it into the kitchen. The installer was
6'4" and about 475lbs. Not kidding...475. He couldn't into the opening
under the counter to hook the new one up. It took three weeks until a
suitably sized human was sent to install the new dishwasher.

Steve Kraus wrote:
....
The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.
....
... can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.

Be thankful they recognized the problem up front before destroying your
kitchen. At least they were straight up before making a mess rather
than leaving you w/ a _real_ problem.

A "cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch" might as
well be a foot -- unless it's free-standing on a wall with nothing else
in the way (quite unusual in most kitchens over/beside a range), moving
it any is likely to become a remodeling job.

It would have been nice to send somebody out to look at it, but for
such a small job scope, not too surprising they wouldn't. They (Sears)
has a particular niche market and it basically is bolt-in/drop-in
replacement. Anything else is not what they're after.

If can't find a new unit that will fit w/o modification and you're not
able to do the installation yourself, I think they gave you good advice.

kenji wrote:
In article .net,
Steve Kraus wrote:

in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.

friend of mine bought a dishwasher from Best Buy with installation. He
pulled his old one the day before his new was to be installed. Guy pulls
up with his new one and brings it into the kitchen. The installer was
6'4" and about 475lbs. Not kidding...475. He couldn't into the opening
under the counter to hook the new one up. It took three weeks until a
suitably sized human was sent to install the new dishwasher.

As usual you get what you pay for. If you are capable of doing the
installation yourself is one thing. The alternative is pay more and buy
from a reputable contractor to start with.

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
link.net...
in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles
cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they
were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.



Did you take the time to call a kitchen specialty dealer and find out what
they would charge to do the job, as well as what their procedure was, in
terms of coming over to measure before making any recommendations or
promises? I'm always mystified as to why this seems to be the last thing
people do, after they've wasted their time with the bigger stores.

When shopping for things that have to be installed, ***always*** shop the
small, locally owned businesses. Some may be as bad as Sears or Home Depot,
but some will be excellent.

In article
,
Rich256 wrote:

kenji wrote:
In article .net,
Steve Kraus wrote:

in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles
cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they
were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.

friend of mine bought a dishwasher from Best Buy with installation. He
pulled his old one the day before his new was to be installed. Guy pulls
up with his new one and brings it into the kitchen. The installer was
6'4" and about 475lbs. Not kidding...475. He couldn't into the opening
under the counter to hook the new one up. It took three weeks until a
suitably sized human was sent to install the new dishwasher.

As usual you get what you pay for. If you are capable of doing the
installation yourself is one thing. The alternative is pay more and buy
from a reputable contractor to start with.

I think the general public shopping at national retailers have the
expectation that an installation is something the retialer can do
efficiently. Probably 95% of installs with Sears, Best Buy, etc...all go
fine. As usual you really only here about problems, not the installs
that go smoothly. Kind of like ISP problems.

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

When shopping for things that have to be installed, ***always*** shop the
small, locally owned businesses.

OK...what do I look for in the Yellow Pages to find a local guy who
installs a kitchen range hood?

"kenji" wrote in message
news:kenji-46C8F7.09302411012007@localhost...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

When shopping for things that have to be installed, ***always*** shop the
small, locally owned businesses.

OK...what do I look for in the Yellow Pages to find a local guy who
installs a kitchen range hood?


I'd look under "kitchen", which should lead you to listings for companies
which do kitchen remodeling. Don't let the word "remodeling" scare you. Many
such stores are happy to sell just one item and install it, if necessary. I
bought my Moen faucet through a company like that. They were $20 cheaper
(for just the faucet) than Home Depot. It was a special order items for both
stores, so the comparison is a valid one. The store offered to install it,
but I didn't need help with it. My main reason for going to a local dealer
was that just in case I simply didn't have time to install the thing, I knew
I could call these people and have them handle it. I don't think it's right
to buy an item from one place, and then ask a competitor to install it.

My point is that you may be able to buy a hood cheaper from a smaller
company, which can also install it if you need them to. You may also be able
to speak to someone who actually does the work, and he may be able to give
you tips on doing it yourself. I've run into this twice recently, once with
an appliance store, and with the company that handles my heating service.

Finally, even if it *is* more expensive, there's some value in peace of
mind, especially since this is for your mother.

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"kenji" wrote in message
news:kenji-46C8F7.09302411012007@localhost...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

When shopping for things that have to be installed, ***always*** shop the
small, locally owned businesses.

OK...what do I look for in the Yellow Pages to find a local guy who
installs a kitchen range hood?


I'd look under "kitchen", which should lead you to listings for companies
which do kitchen remodeling. Don't let the word "remodeling" scare you. Many
such stores are happy to sell just one item and install it, if necessary. I
bought my Moen faucet through a company like that. They were $20 cheaper
(for just the faucet) than Home Depot. It was a special order items for both
stores, so the comparison is a valid one. The store offered to install it,
but I didn't need help with it. My main reason for going to a local dealer
was that just in case I simply didn't have time to install the thing, I knew
I could call these people and have them handle it. I don't think it's right
to buy an item from one place, and then ask a competitor to install it.

My point is that you may be able to buy a hood cheaper from a smaller
company, which can also install it if you need them to. You may also be able
to speak to someone who actually does the work, and he may be able to give
you tips on doing it yourself. I've run into this twice recently, once with
an appliance store, and with the company that handles my heating service.

Finally, even if it *is* more expensive, there's some value in peace of
mind, especially since this is for your mother.

he should be taking his mom out for meals

They never came and looked at it before deciding it was beyond their
ability.

Space is about 1/8" over the 36" nominal while the new hood is about 1/8"
less than nominal but because some tiles were installed as a backsplash
around the kitchen and the edge footprint of the new unit differs slightly
from the prior one on the left side these would be trimmed a little for
clearance. On the other hand those could be left alone and the cabinet to
the right could be moved slightly (there's at least a good 1/2" it can go
closer to a wall to the right.

I don't think I'm wrong in suggesting that these are probably things
encountered all the time in this sort of work. I could sort of understand
if they had some installers who could only do basic, simple, "wam bam sign
here please, ma'am" installs and referred others to someone else. But to
be completely unable to come up with a contractor to handle this and tell
the customer to go find a handyman, yeah, that's why I am emphasizing the
word incompetent.

And I'd be ashamed to go around using the name "Custom Appliance
Installers" or whatever it is if I couldn't deal with an install of this
non-magnitude.

In article .net,
Steve Kraus wrote:

They never came and looked at it before deciding it was beyond their
ability.

Space is about 1/8" over the 36" nominal while the new hood is about 1/8"
less than nominal but because some tiles were installed as a backsplash
around the kitchen and the edge footprint of the new unit differs slightly
from the prior one on the left side these would be trimmed a little for
clearance. On the other hand those could be left alone and the cabinet to
the right could be moved slightly (there's at least a good 1/2" it can go
closer to a wall to the right.

I don't think I'm wrong in suggesting that these are probably things
encountered all the time in this sort of work. I could sort of understand
if they had some installers who could only do basic, simple, "wam bam sign
here please, ma'am" installs and referred others to someone else. But to
be completely unable to come up with a contractor to handle this and tell
the customer to go find a handyman, yeah, that's why I am emphasizing the
word incompetent.

And I'd be ashamed to go around using the name "Custom Appliance
Installers" or whatever it is if I couldn't deal with an install of this
non-magnitude.

is it possible they got the "asshole vibe" from you and decided to just
walk away?

I'm not pointing fingers...just wondering.

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
link.net...
They never came and looked at it before deciding it was beyond their
ability.

Space is about 1/8" over the 36" nominal while the new hood is about 1/8"
less than nominal but because some tiles were installed as a backsplash
around the kitchen and the edge footprint of the new unit differs slightly
from the prior one on the left side these would be trimmed a little for
clearance. On the other hand those could be left alone and the cabinet to
the right could be moved slightly (there's at least a good 1/2" it can go
closer to a wall to the right.

I don't think I'm wrong in suggesting that these are probably things
encountered all the time in this sort of work. I could sort of understand
if they had some installers who could only do basic, simple, "wam bam sign
here please, ma'am" installs and referred others to someone else. But to
be completely unable to come up with a contractor to handle this and tell
the customer to go find a handyman, yeah, that's why I am emphasizing the
word incompetent.

And I'd be ashamed to go around using the name "Custom Appliance
Installers" or whatever it is if I couldn't deal with an install of this
non-magnitude.


Was there a dollar amount discussed for this installation? How much?

If you have a "standard" installation you can't beat the price from Sears or
other "big box" store.

If you don't have a standard installation you either DIY or pay MUCH more
for a local small businessman to sell and install the replacement.

"Around here," for an example, Home Depot and Lowe's will have their
contractor install a patio door for $500 (or less). They also have good
prices on the doors.

A local company wants $800 per door for an installation without special
problems. They also charge a few $100 more for equivalent door that the
big box store.

That's just the way it is.

"John Gilmer" wrote in message
...
If you have a "standard" installation you can't beat the price from Sears
or
other "big box" store.

If you don't have a standard installation you either DIY or pay MUCH more
for a local small businessman to sell and install the replacement.

That's just the way it is.

No, it isn't. My local appliance dealer delivered and installed a
dishwasher for $50LESS than HD would do it and they did it the next day.
They delivered and set up the washer the same day and charged less.

I bought an 8' Pella slider that was a better model than HD sold and paid
$300 less to have it installed by a local. You may not find tat type of
service where you live, but I certainly can beat the big store every day for
items like that.

Same **** with Home Crapo or any other store that out sources their
installers. No control over them.


Steve Kraus wrote:
in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:_Ytph.4264$3L1.1902@trndny03...

"John Gilmer" wrote in message
...
If you have a "standard" installation you can't beat the price from Sears
or
other "big box" store.

If you don't have a standard installation you either DIY or pay MUCH more
for a local small businessman to sell and install the replacement.

That's just the way it is.

No, it isn't. My local appliance dealer delivered and installed a
dishwasher for $50LESS than HD would do it and they did it the next day.
They delivered and set up the washer the same day and charged less.

I bought an 8' Pella slider that was a better model than HD sold and paid
$300 less to have it installed by a local. You may not find tat type of
service where you live, but I certainly can beat the big store every day
for items like that.


.....and then you go and tell 5 people how happy you were with the work.
These small dealers must be nuts. :-)

I bought an 8' Pella slider that was a better model than HD sold and paid
$300 less to have it installed by a local. You may not find tat type of
service where you live, but I certainly can beat the big store every day
for
items like that.


I'm quite happy for you.

But that's not how the prices go "around here."

"John Gilmer" wrote in message
...


I bought an 8' Pella slider that was a better model than HD sold and paid
$300 less to have it installed by a local. You may not find tat type of
service where you live, but I certainly can beat the big store every day
for
items like that.


I'm quite happy for you.

But that's not how the prices go "around here."


Sounds like you don't have enough competition there.

is it possible they got the "asshole vibe" from you and decided to
just walk away?

I'm not pointing fingers...just wondering.

A reasonable question but I never actually spoke to the contractor myself.

Was there a dollar amount discussed for this installation? How much?

Sears took down my CC number and said the charge would be, I believe, $149-
something. I would expect that would be a basic charge and would have
increased for anything beyond beyond a simple bolt-it-up hookup. I would
not have expected that price to hold.

OK...what do I look for in the Yellow Pages to find a local guy who
installs a kitchen range hood?

Don't go to Yellow Pages. Talk with real estate agents, or even better, a
real estate management firm, in your mom's area and ask who they use.

In article 01,
Steve Kraus wrote:

is it possible they got the "asshole vibe" from you and decided to
just walk away?

I'm not pointing fingers...just wondering.

A reasonable question but I never actually spoke to the contractor myself.

so yer senior citizen mom was there when they guys showed then left?

there's the prob.

In article ,
"# Fred #" wrote:

OK...what do I look for in the Yellow Pages to find a local guy who
installs a kitchen range hood?

Don't go to Yellow Pages. Talk with real estate agents, or even better, a
real estate management firm, in your mom's area and ask who they use.

they'd use a hnadyman or a carpenter

But that's not how the prices go "around here."


Sounds like you don't have enough competition there.

Not right now.

There is still a "housing boom" going on. It's just starting to lose steam
but there is plenty of work still out there.

We have a LOT of government jobs here so we just don't "feel the pain" of
you folks who live in the real world.

I'm always mystified as to why this seems
to be the last thing people do, after they've wasted their time with
the bigger stores.

Actually I shopped a variety of stores, both specialized, and general,
looking for the hood. My criteria was it should be stainless steel, 36"
wide, 7-8 or whatever "thick" (not one that goes way way up to the
ceiling), compatible with a rear exhaust duct (10" wide or whatever the
standard is; sorry I don't have all the specs here) and I preferred the
controls for fan and lights on the front as the old Nutone unit was. I
didn't want bottom of the barrel junk but not super expensive either. Some
Nutone/Broan units fit the bill. I selected the Kenmore ELITE model, which
is made by Nutone/Broan, because while similar in outward appearance I
preferred how, when looking up from under it, all you see are the two large
metal mesh filter panels (which pop off for washing) taking up the entire
area except the lip where the two lamps are. I liked that better than
designs with various nooks and crannies that would probably be difficult to
keep clean. Price was a bit over $300.

I would have installed it myself but decided maybe it was better to get a
pro to deal with the issues involved. I had no idea the pro invoked by the
seller can only handle the simplest jobs. If it had been that simple I
would indeed have done it myself in the first place. As for why call Sears
for installation, well it's only natural since they are the seller of the
product.

At this time we are deciding whether I should just do it myself after all,
or return it to Sears since they are unable to install their own item.

Wow...a range hood being installed where one was just removed. Same size
and same make even. It's not like I was asking them to install it atop a
50' chimney.

dpb wrote:
Steve Kraus wrote:
...

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.

...

... can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.


Be thankful they recognized the problem up front before destroying your
kitchen. At least they were straight up before making a mess rather
than leaving you w/ a _real_ problem.

A "cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch" might as
well be a foot -- unless it's free-standing on a wall with nothing else
in the way (quite unusual in most kitchens over/beside a range), moving
it any is likely to become a remodeling job.

It would have been nice to send somebody out to look at it, but for
such a small job scope, not too surprising they wouldn't. They (Sears)
has a particular niche market and it basically is bolt-in/drop-in
replacement. Anything else is not what they're after.

If can't find a new unit that will fit w/o modification and you're not
able to do the installation yourself, I think they gave you good advice.


All appliances have installation instructions, including the space
requirement. I learned the hard way when we bought a new wall oven )

Since the contract called for installing a hood (relatively easy), it is
a rather large "oops". I would not expect the installer to do a freebie
of major proportions.

We had "Sears" redo our kitchen - new doors/drawers on cab., reface
cab., new countertops, install new sink. I would not have chosen Sears,
as it was hubby's choice. The carpenter (sub) was total professional,
did great work, and came back twice for minor adjustments. The plumber
who installed and hooked up the sink was a total jerk, who tried to
bluff us into believing the sink should be held down only with silicone
caulk. Even I know better ) Never have contractors work late on a
Friday ) When we called Sears back for the adjustments, there was no
hesitation - scheduled and returned quickly.

We had floor tile installed by a small, local contractor. His crew was
top-notch - two young guys who moonlight for HD. They were very
skilled, knew all the tricks to make adjustment for significant issues,
and we could not have been more pleased. He had a separate crew who
undercut baseboards to allow for tile; no half-assed newbies or guys
working outside of their skill area.

I would start over and make the right deal with someone who is
contracted to do what needs to be done.

Space is about 1/8" over the 36" nominal while the new hood is about 1/8"
less than nominal but because some tiles were installed as a backsplash
around the kitchen and the edge footprint of the new unit differs slightly
from the prior one on the left side these would be trimmed a little for
clearance. On the other hand those could be left alone and the cabinet to
the right could be moved slightly (there's at least a good 1/2" it can go
closer to a wall to the right.


The hoods I've installed before, the new ones fits into the old space
without any side-to-side play.

Ok, I'm checking another house now and the hood is indeed about 3/16" off at
one of the corners. Nothing is level nor plumb - track house where
everything were slapped together in a hurry. Sloppy installation but I never
notice it until now.

Steve Kraus wrote in
. 125.201:

I'm always mystified as to why this seems
to be the last thing people do, after they've wasted their time with
the bigger stores.

Actually I shopped a variety of stores, both specialized, and general,
looking for the hood. My criteria was it should be stainless steel,
36" wide, 7-8 or whatever "thick" (not one that goes way way up to the
ceiling), compatible with a rear exhaust duct (10" wide or whatever
the standard is; sorry I don't have all the specs here) and I
preferred the controls for fan and lights on the front as the old
Nutone unit was. I didn't want bottom of the barrel junk but not
super expensive either. Some Nutone/Broan units fit the bill. I
selected the Kenmore ELITE model, which is made by Nutone/Broan,
because while similar in outward appearance I preferred how, when
looking up from under it, all you see are the two large metal mesh
filter panels (which pop off for washing) taking up the entire area
except the lip where the two lamps are. I liked that better than
designs with various nooks and crannies that would probably be
difficult to keep clean. Price was a bit over $300.

I would have installed it myself but decided maybe it was better to
get a pro to deal with the issues involved. I had no idea the pro
invoked by the seller can only handle the simplest jobs. If it had
been that simple I would indeed have done it myself in the first
place. As for why call Sears for installation, well it's only natural
since they are the seller of the product.

At this time we are deciding whether I should just do it myself after
all, or return it to Sears since they are unable to install their own
item.

Wow...a range hood being installed where one was just removed. Same
size and same make even. It's not like I was asking them to install
it atop a 50' chimney.

Sears (and other large stores) contract with a company for a set price to
do a set job. There isn't room for custom work in this arrangement. I get
from your original statement that they didn't even come out to the house,
which is understandable. They contract with the store at a low price
based on volume, so driving to your house cuts into any profit. You may
have done better if you didn't reveal the extra work required on the
phone, and the installer may have made the hood fit to get paid for your
job.

Anyway, an appliance installer is not going to want to move your cabinet.
That is outside the scope of what they do. The contractors hired by the
big chains are not paid as well as contractors that work for smaller,
specialty stores. The guy that advised you to contact a small kitchen
remodeler is right. Otherwise, you would need to contact the installer
directly and arrange to pay them directly for the work to get additional
work done.

You're also changing your story here. First you said they may have to
move a cabinet 1/8", and now you're saying "same size and make even".
These are two very different stories.

I'm still not understanding the initial problem all that well. Can you
post some pictures?
Did you buy a new range hood that was the same size as the old one or
not? And if so what's the problem?

"John Gilmer" wrote in message
...


But that's not how the prices go "around here."


Sounds like you don't have enough competition there.

Not right now.

There is still a "housing boom" going on. It's just starting to lose
steam
but there is plenty of work still out there.

We have a LOT of government jobs here so we just don't "feel the pain" of
you folks who live in the real world.



How many locally owned kitchen dealers would you estimate you have there?

In chi.general kenji wrote:
: In article ,
: "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

: When shopping for things that have to be installed, ***always*** shop the
: small, locally owned businesses.

: OK...what do I look for in the Yellow Pages to find a local guy who
: installs a kitchen range hood?

I'd go to your local catholic church mass on Saturday night or Sunday morning,
on the back page of the bulletin are ads from community based businesses and
there is usually at least one who does that sort of installation...

If it were my folks, I'd buy it from someplace where installation is part of
the deal or I'd do it myself... Now you have the problem of owning the part
and trying to get someone else to install it...

Might just return it telling Sears you bought it from them expecting them to
install it and then buy it from a place that will install it...

We bought our new washer/dryer from Sears (we go thru them sorta often here),
they set it in the spot and removed the old washer/dryer, but refused to do
the gas hookup claiming they don't do that anymore for insurance reasons...
I was disappointed and it seems to me in the past they did (might be because
of ownership changes) and we haven't bought from them again... when we bought
the new oven from BestBuy that was our first question, will they do the entire
install and they said yes (and they did...)

An eighth of a inch isn't that much... those vent panels punch out and I would
think since metal is cutable and bendable that the stack included would be
plyable enough to make that sort of change (we replaced ours, and it's not that
hard, i mean, your not running new vents to the roof or wall...)

--
John Nelson
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:26:07 GMT, Steve Kraus
wrote:

is it possible they got the "asshole vibe" from you and decided to
just walk away?

I'm not pointing fingers...just wondering.

A reasonable question but I never actually spoke to the contractor myself.

If sears was hiring me to install a vent-hood, I'd probably
balk at moving cabinets and doing tile-work, too.
Especially the tile-work which involves a completely different
set of skills and tools.

Would you rather they guy had shown up, and used a 5# sledge
to make a hole big enough? Maybe take some tinsnips and
trim the new vent hood?

"kenji" wrote

friend of mine bought a dishwasher from Best Buy with installation. He
pulled his old one the day before his new was to be installed. Guy pulls
up with his new one and brings it into the kitchen. The installer was
6'4" and about 475lbs. Not kidding...475. He couldn't into the opening
under the counter to hook the new one up. It took three weeks until a
suitably sized human was sent to install the new dishwasher.

This is the first time, that I heard someone actually bought an appliance
from BB.

In article ,
"Ralph Miller" wrote:

"kenji" wrote

friend of mine bought a dishwasher from Best Buy with installation. He
pulled his old one the day before his new was to be installed. Guy pulls
up with his new one and brings it into the kitchen. The installer was
6'4" and about 475lbs. Not kidding...475. He couldn't into the opening
under the counter to hook the new one up. It took three weeks until a
suitably sized human was sent to install the new dishwasher.

This is the first time, that I heard someone actually bought an appliance
from BB.

Not too different than anywhere else. I bought a washing machine from
them. What I liked was that I picked one out paid for it and whipped it
into my van all in less than 20 minutes. That's how I like to shop.

"kenji" wrote in message
news:kenji-CE652B.09172511012007@localhost...
In article .net,
Steve Kraus wrote:

in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and
wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the
adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles
cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they
were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where
a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.

friend of mine bought a dishwasher from Best Buy with installation. He
pulled his old one the day before his new was to be installed. Guy pulls
up with his new one and brings it into the kitchen. The installer was
6'4" and about 475lbs. Not kidding...475. He couldn't into the opening
under the counter to hook the new one up. It took three weeks until a
suitably sized human was sent to install the new dishwasher.

When I bought mine from Best Buy I was assured I would get a Best Buy
installer and not a sub-contractor. I was very clear up front that I wanted
a Best Buy employee. If they didn't have their own installers I'd pay the
extra $75 and buy from a local appliance center. They showed up in an
unmarked van, both were in filthy plain t-shirts and jeans a since my new
washer was not hardwired they whacked me for $85 to install an unprotected
non-GFI outlet directly under a faucet. Best Buy had no interest in
correcting this after the fact. Nor did they care that my salesperson
flat-out lied to me about who would be coming to my house. Not to sound
like an asshole to any subs out there but if I am to have someone in my
house I want to know who they are and have a choice. This has been my
policy since some similar 'no name' subs installed my Directtv several years
ago, saw a motorcycle helmet and chatted with me about bikes for a bit about
a week before my bike dissapeared from my garage. It may have been a
coincidence but better safe than sorry.

In article ,
Scott en Aztl?n wrote:

Chicago Paddling-Fishing said in chi.general:

I'd go to your local catholic church mass on Saturday night or Sunday
morning,
on the back page of the bulletin are ads from community based businesses and
there is usually at least one who does that sort of installation...

Have you found that workmen who put the Pisces symbol in their ads
and/or who advertise in the back of the Order of Worship at the local
church are any more honest/fair/trustworthy/etc. than a random
selection from the yellow pages?

generally the guys in our parishes weekly bulletin are all reliable and
have been advertising for a long time and are seen around the parish and
church, which means more credibility.

You're also changing your story here. First you said they may have to
move a cabinet 1/8", and now you're saying "same size and make even".
These are two very different stories.

I have not changed any story. Both the old unit and new one are 36"
models. (They come in 30", 36", sometimes in 42") That is what they are
called. The actual measurement of the new unit, as I recall it, is about
1/8" under presumably to allow fitting into a 36" space. The space, from
brickwork of the oven stack to the left to the cabinet on the right is a
bit over 36".

I tend to call 36" the nominal dimension but that may imply it's an average
and surely they are all precisely undersized the same amount. Maybe it
should be called the rough dimension for the space it's going into.

The reason it can't just go right in is that the area to left of the
cooktop (and behind it and around the sink etc.) was tiled with a tile that
is maybe 3/8" thick and this tiling goes right up to exactly where the old
range hood was. The tiler cut the tile to fill the space exactly so now
with the old hood down there is an area open (untiled) that exactly matches
the left side profile of the old hood.

If the side profiles of both hoods were the same it would go right in
although there might still be a need to temporarily move the cabinet to the
right to get into position since tiles to the front would block sliding it
straight back from the front. Maybe one could angle it into that space
first on the left and then bringing up the right. A moot point because the
side profile is not in fact the same.

If the tiles were cut and removed to get back down to the brick for an area
matching the side profile of the new hood then it will fit ok just as the
old one did. If the cabinet is moved to get the range hood into place then
it would then go back where it was.

OR

If one has to mess with the cabinet anyway it could be remounted about a
half inch farther to the right in which case the range hood could mounted
with the tiles left as is and hood left side just touching them. In other
words the hood would be mounted one tile thickness farther to the right
than the old one was. This offset is a bit more than the tiny excess of
space created by the fact that the hood is a hair under 36" and the overall
space is bit more than 36".

The length of the explanation makes it seem more complex than it is.

In article . 201, Steve Kraus wrote:

The reason it can't just go right in is that the area to left of the
cooktop (and behind it and around the sink etc.) was tiled with a tile that
is maybe 3/8" thick and this tiling goes right up to exactly where the old
range hood was. The tiler cut the tile to fill the space exactly so now
with the old hood down there is an area open (untiled) that exactly matches
the left side profile of the old hood.

If the side profiles of both hoods were the same it would go right in
although there might still be a need to temporarily move the cabinet to the
right to get into position since tiles to the front would block sliding it
straight back from the front. Maybe one could angle it into that space
first on the left and then bringing up the right. A moot point because the
side profile is not in fact the same.

If the tiles were cut and removed to get back down to the brick for an area
matching the side profile of the new hood then it will fit ok just as the
old one did. If the cabinet is moved to get the range hood into place then
it would then go back where it was.

OR

If one has to mess with the cabinet anyway it could be remounted about a
half inch farther to the right in which case the range hood could mounted
with the tiles left as is and hood left side just touching them. In other
words the hood would be mounted one tile thickness farther to the right
than the old one was. This offset is a bit more than the tiny excess of
space created by the fact that the hood is a hair under 36" and the overall
space is bit more than 36".

The length of the explanation makes it seem more complex than it is.

Doesn't matter, it's clearly too complicated for a sears installer. They
did you a favor by not doing it. They would have messed the whole thing
up big time if you had them try.

Hanging a hood is no big deal. You seem to know all the details, why not
just do it yourself?

In article . 201,
Steve Kraus wrote:

The length of the explanation makes it seem more complex than it is.

post a jpg