kenji wrote:

In article ,
"# Fred #" wrote:

OK...what do I look for in the Yellow Pages to find a local guy who
installs a kitchen range hood?

Don't go to Yellow Pages. Talk with real estate agents, or even better, a
real estate management firm, in your mom's area and ask who they use.

they'd use a hnadyman or a carpenter


Some Balkan or East European off - the - boat that doesn't know what
they're doing...

--
Best
Greg

so yer senior citizen mom was there when they guys showed then left?

there's the prob.

No one ever came to look at it. They rejected the job sight unseen.

If sears was hiring me to install a vent-hood, I'd probably
balk at moving cabinets and doing tile-work, too.
Especially the tile-work which involves a completely different
set of skills and tools.

Would you rather they guy had shown up, and used a 5# sledge
to make a hole big enough? Maybe take some tinsnips and
trim the new vent hood?

No I would think that since the name of the sub contractor is Custom
Appliance Installers (if I heard Sears correctly) they would have the
skills to do what is necessary to install range hoods, cooktops, ranges,
disposers, dishwashers, etc. which would mean skills including simple
electric work, simple plumbing (like for hooking up a dishwasher or
icemaker), simple gas piping, and some basic handyman & carpentry skills to
get the job done. I don't think you'd want to hire a separate electrician,
plumber, carpenter, and cabinetry person just to put in an under-counter
dishwasher.

What is a "custom appliance installer" but a handyman specializing in this
one area or at least they should be. They still need a combination of
skills.

Steve Kraus wrote:
I have not changed any story. Both the old unit and new one are 36"
models. (They come in 30", 36", sometimes in 42") That is what they are
called. The actual measurement of the new unit, as I recall it, is about
1/8" under presumably to allow fitting into a 36" space. The space, from

DO you know from an actual measurement or a diagram in the manual that
it is only 1/8" less? A lot of appliances of nominal 30" width, range
from 27 to 29 1/2". Carpentry isn't a very precise craft, and when
multiple elements come together as in a kitchen, usually they're pretty
generous about the fitment.

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
No I would think that since the name of the sub contractor is Custom
Appliance Installers (if I heard Sears correctly) they would have the
skills to do what is necessary to install range hoods, cooktops, ranges,
disposers, dishwashers, etc. which would mean skills including simple
electric work, simple plumbing (like for hooking up a dishwasher or
icemaker), simple gas piping, and some basic handyman & carpentry skills
to
get the job done. I don't think you'd want to hire a separate
electrician,
plumber, carpenter, and cabinetry person just to put in an under-counter
dishwasher.

What is a "custom appliance installer" but a handyman specializing in this
one area or at least they should be. They still need a combination of
skills.


It may be that Sears won't pay them enough to do the extra work or they have
some policy (as a Sears sub contractor) that does not allow them to price a
job when on site. It can also be that some of these seemingly simple jobs
turn into nightmares once underway. Who is liable if they put a mounting
screw through a pipe or wire?

In article . net, Steve Kraus wrote:
If sears was hiring me to install a vent-hood, I'd probably
balk at moving cabinets and doing tile-work, too.
Especially the tile-work which involves a completely different
set of skills and tools.

Would you rather they guy had shown up, and used a 5# sledge
to make a hole big enough? Maybe take some tinsnips and
trim the new vent hood?

No I would think that since the name of the sub contractor is Custom
Appliance Installers (if I heard Sears correctly) they would have the
skills to do what is necessary to install range hoods, cooktops,

They have a contract with sears, just like the other guy said. The people
who are doing the installs are probably the boobs, the newbies, the
idiots because it's supposed to be the easiest stuff. You don't even want
these guys moving the door from the right to left side of the fridge.

What is a "custom appliance installer" but a handyman specializing in this
one area or at least they should be. They still need a combination of
skills.

You made it a special case for them. They won't take special cases.

In article . net,
Steve Kraus wrote:

so yer senior citizen mom was there when they guys showed then left?

there's the prob.

No one ever came to look at it. They rejected the job sight unseen.

ohhhhhh.....

that's kinda ****ed up

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
link.net...
in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.
Snip

Moving a cabinet a half inch is just as much work as moving it across the
room.
I doubt you would find many appliance installers willing to do the cabinet
work.

How to you trim installed tile on a wall? Again, I doubt you would find
an appliance installer equiped to do that kind of job.

I can understand your frustration, wanting to help your mother and being
some distance away and having to rely on unknown people to do a job. But,
stop and rethink for a minute. Is it possible you are being a bit
unreasonable in your expectations?

In chi.general kenji wrote:

: In article . net,
: Steve Kraus wrote:

: so yer senior citizen mom was there when they guys showed then left?
:
: there's the prob.
:
: No one ever came to look at it. They rejected the job sight unseen.

: ohhhhhh.....

: that's kinda ****ed up


I wish he would post a .jpg anyway, I re-read his explanation twice about
why there could be a 1/8" problem and still don't get it.

With the above post, he must of told the sales drone at Sears that there
could be a problem installing it and they wrote it on the ticket, which is
how/why the installer rejected the job. Like others said, should of kept
your mouth shut. At least they would of came out and you could of did an
eye-to-eye with them.

Like others have also said, those guys just get a flat rate from businesses
like Sears so anything more than a unbolt and rebolt, they are going to flip
a coin to take on the job or not. If he explained to sears anything like
what he's been posting about the problem, no wonder they were scared off.

One thing I get the feeling about with all of this is that you are expecting
perfection with the install and I really doubt that is going to happen. Tile
cutting/replacing, cabinet moving, that is all beyond the scope of just
replacing the hood. I did my own kitchen remodel a couple years ago,
everything from the dishwasher to overhead microwave and can tell you first
hand, nothing is going to be moved 1/8" in any direction without getting
into a major overhaul.

Again since I can't picture the problem you think there is, if you are
worried about having a gap with the new hood or exposed tile where none was
before, deal with it, there is going to be a gap or exposed tile.

-bruce

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:14:02 -0600, kenji wrote:

In article . net,
Steve Kraus wrote:

so yer senior citizen mom was there when they guys showed then left?

there's the prob.

No one ever came to look at it. They rejected the job sight unseen.

ohhhhhh.....

that's kinda ****ed up

Not really, the client called up about a vent-hood replacement,
and started jabbering about fixing the tile and moving the
adjoining cabinets, and they decided: "Screw that. I've
got easier jobs waiting."

Nexus7 wrote:

Carpentry isn't a very precise craft,

Yeah, most carpenters are fairly _liberal_.

In chi.general Scott en Aztl?n wrote:
: Chicago Paddling-Fishing said in chi.general:

: I'd go to your local catholic church mass on Saturday night or Sunday morning,
: on the back page of the bulletin are ads from community based businesses and
: there is usually at least one who does that sort of installation...

: Have you found that workmen who put the Pisces symbol in their ads
: and/or who advertise in the back of the Order of Worship at the local
: church are any more honest/fair/trustworthy/etc. than a random
: selection from the yellow pages?

Those who advertise in the back are usually very local (live within a mile of
where you live) and are pretty accessable. Also because they rely on word of
mouth they strive to do a good job because they only cover the area you live
in... Someone who covers a wide area can do a bad job for a long time before
it catches up to them, someone who covers a very small area won't be in
business long if they do poor work...

I found the guy who did our garage roof in the bulletin and I still don't
understand how he was able to reroof a 22x22 garage (no tear off) for $250
and make a profit...

He has since moved to vegas, but I had him do a few other jobs for me
afterwards... he did siding for someone I knew down the street and he
didn't like how part of it turned out (as far as I know, she didn't complain
and I didn't notice what he was complaining about either) so he ripped it off
and redid at at no charge to her saying he drives by it every day and he
didn't want people to think he did bad work... you want to find a handyman
who just happens to be a perfectionist as well...

--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:00:19 GMT, Steve Kraus
wrote:

in·com·pe·tence
: the state or fact of being incompetent

in·com·pe·tent
2 : inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3 a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action b : unable to
function properly

Facts only:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.


First, let's assume everything you stated was correct. Even so, it's
only half the story. Why did they need to enlarge the install space?
Was that by the manufacturer's instructions?

This is what I'm guessing, the vendor gets a flat rate. So performing
the work in as little time possible means there is a greater chance
for profit, and a larger one. So they don't want to do extra work, so
they will only do what they have to.

tom @ www.FreelancingProjects.com

Steve Kraus wrote in
ink.net:

If sears was hiring me to install a vent-hood, I'd probably
balk at moving cabinets and doing tile-work, too.
Especially the tile-work which involves a completely different
set of skills and tools.

Would you rather they guy had shown up, and used a 5# sledge
to make a hole big enough? Maybe take some tinsnips and
trim the new vent hood?

No I would think that since the name of the sub contractor is Custom
Appliance Installers (if I heard Sears correctly) they would have the
skills to do what is necessary to install range hoods, cooktops,
ranges, disposers, dishwashers, etc. which would mean skills including
simple electric work, simple plumbing (like for hooking up a
dishwasher or icemaker), simple gas piping,

Yes, these are the skills they have.

and some basic handyman & carpentry skills to get the job done.

Nope. They do one job. Like I said already, Sears hires a company based on
their price per unit. There's no extras built in to the price, and since
they are probably less skilled, you shouldn't expect much.

You made it a special case for them. They won't take special cases.

I'd love to find out on what basis they chose to call themselves
"**CUSTOM** Appliance Installers."

BTW, I did the job myself yesterday.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007, Steve Kraus wrote:

BTW, I did the job myself yesterday.


and how many wall tiles did you have to remove?

:

I purchased a range hood for my mom from sears.com (local store pickup).
It was to replace a defective old unit (same nominal size, duct and wiring
already there).

I phoned Sears to arrange installation. They said this would be
accomplished by their preferred contractor, a company called (I think)
Custom Appliance Installers. I believe they are out of Orland Park, IL.

The contractor called and my mom told them it's possible that the adjacent
cabinet might have to get moved over an eighth of an inch or some tiles cut
to clear the different side dimensions of the new unit. "We don't do
that," she was told. Sears called back and left a message saying they were
cancelling.

I called Sears. They said they'd get another vendor to do it.

Sears called back saying tough luck, we can't do it. Go find your own
handyman they "helpfully" suggested.

Is it any wonder Sears is on the skids when they and their vendors are
incompetent to the task of installing their own product at a place where a
similar item was just removed? This can't be the only case where some
small adjustments are required to get something in place.



I agree with those that say that Sears, to their credit, had the good
sense to understand what their contractors are capable of doing and
what they cannot do. Installing a range hood in a std space is one
thing. Moving cabinets, even an 1/8", unless it happens to be the last
one and there is room next to it is a whole different thing. And even
worse, is cutting some tiles that are cemented to brick as part of a
kitchen backsplash. You should be happy they didn't send some guy who
tried to do it and screwed the whole thing up, which is what they
probably know from experience can happen.

As for the details of the install, I can understand the issue with the
existing tile being cut in around the old unit. But the requirement I
see is that you need a hood that is slightly bigger than the old one so
that it covers up all the area in back that doesn't have tile. It
sounds like the new one is indeed bigger, but you want the excess tile
cut away so the hood will go back an additional 3/8" like the old one.
Why is that necessary? Usually the front back dimension is not
critical and trying to get tile that is cemented to a brick wall cut
and off without damaging the remaining tile doesn't sound like an
typical install issue to me, nor something I would want to do.

I still don't understand the need to move the cabinet because of the
tile though. If the old one was the same nominal as the new one, it
should just go straight in, no?

Steve Kraus wrote in news:dNZqh.11455
:

You made it a special case for them. They won't take special cases.

I'd love to find out on what basis they chose to call themselves
"**CUSTOM** Appliance Installers."

I'm sure they may do it if you hired them directly, but they contract with
Sears to install range hoods for a certain price, there is no room for
custom work.

Eric wrote:
Steve Kraus wrote in news:dNZqh.11455
:

You made it a special case for them. They won't take special cases.

I'd love to find out on what basis they chose to call themselves
"**CUSTOM** Appliance Installers."

I'm sure they may do it if you hired them directly, but they contract with
Sears to install range hoods for a certain price, there is no room for
custom work.


Given that there is an issue with tile being around the footprint of
the old hood and the space perhaps requiring a cabinet to be moved, the
better approach to this whole job would have been to get an installer
first. Someone with experience can ofter save a lot of headache.
Like they would know if any hoods are on the low end of the nominal
width. Or which ones might have footprints that would cover up the
tile, go over it easily instead of cutting it, etc.

barbie gee wrote:

and how many wall tiles did you have to remove?

In the end I opted to leave the tiles be and put the hood a tile thickness
farther over. I ended up with the cabinet to the right shifted by 1/4"
(less than the thickness of a tile because there was a little excess to
start with).

I ended up taking down the upper cabinet as the right one wasn't going to
come out otherwise. Then took down the right, removed a lip that was
spacing it away from the right side wall, put it back in position on a
temporary support, reattached the upper one (with lag bolts, not wimpy
original screws, one of which missed the stud), worked out the electric,
duct damper business, mounted the hood, mounted the right cabinet. Filled
in the gap with patching plaster (I'll see how that goes; maybe do
something else later. Probably a strip of wood painted to match.)

The electric issue was that the feed (armored flex) was on the left; new
unit wanted it on the right and contains the blower on the left. I drew a
chart representing the small range of movement for the flex line and found
a suitable place on the hood where it could enter away from the fan,
drilled and Greenlee punched it. Ran new internal wiring to get from left
to right.

Yeah, a long job and no I wouldn't expect anyone to do that for $150.00.
Never did.

Here is the end result:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...knik/hood1.jpg

From this angle you can only barely make out the edge of the tiles in
question but they are the same as the ones directly behind the cooktop.

In article k.net,
Steve Kraus wrote:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...knik/hood1.jpg

the paper towels over the stove make me nervous and what's that grate on
the vertical portion of the cabinetry under the stove?

what's that grate on
the vertical portion of the cabinetry under the stove?

That's from the original long gone Western-Holly cooktop which presumably
drew air from the counter space it was set into hence a seperately provided
vent. The KitchenAid you see there (probably 15-20 years old itself) has
ventilation into the box around the edge of the top.

The antique wall ovens are pretty cool, though...

Yeah, most definitely. Also Western-Holly circa 1957 or so. It has a nice
commercial oven look to it. The double oven was not standard for the
subdivision so the original owner must have specified it.