Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

wrote:
Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.

Are you getting 85V at the breaker? If so, then you've got big problems,
if not then the fault lies in the wiring between the breaker and the
outlet.

Those big problems could be a number of oddball things, possibly power
feeding back through some other device around a break in the system. But
check it the breaker.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thing is, a short that was eating that much power would result in a lot of
heat. You should be able to smell the smoke if this were the case.


John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Mean People Suck - It takes two deviations to get cool.
Ask me about joining the NRA.

wrote:
Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and
have same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

What are the other outlets reading on each leg of your 220 in? Maybe the
transformer feeding your house is going bad on one leg? Check each leg and
if one is very dissamaler call your power company and have them look into
it.

Does the washer run OK?

Rich

Hello

I checked at the breaker and it was 120... I will double check the wire
connections both at the breaker box and outlet again... Very strange
why this happend all of a sudden. I should be able to check the entire
line in the attick tomorrow to make sure it is not fried somewhere
along the way... In the mean time I am keeping the breaker off.

Thanks

On Dec 11, 1:51 pm, wrote:
wrote:
Hello
I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.
I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.Are you getting 85V at the breaker? If so, then you've got big problems,
if not then the fault lies in the wiring between the breaker and the
outlet.

Those big problems could be a number of oddball things, possibly power
feeding back through some other device around a break in the system. But
check it the breaker.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.Thing is, a short that was eating that much power would result in a lot of
heat. You should be able to smell the smoke if this were the case.

John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Mean People Suck - It takes two deviations to get cool.
Ask me about joining the NRA.

ThanksWhat are the other outlets reading on each leg of your 220 in? Maybe the
transformer feeding your house is going bad on one leg? Check each leg and
if one is very dissamaler call your power company and have them look into
it.

Does the washer run OK?

Rich


Nope, washer won't run... I thought it went bad so we ran out and
bought a new one, only to find out the new one wouldnt run either.
Further investigation led me to finding the low voltage issue.

I am not having power issues anywhere else in the house, just this
single circuit.

G

First, some terms.

A "short" is when something is connected, but shouldn't be. An "open"
is something not connected, but should be.

Since you have a VOM, please try reading from the hot to the ground.
If this gives you 110 volts, then the problem is with your neutral.

In any case, it's a good idea every couple years to take a screw
driver and tighten all the neutrals in your breaker box. I know no one
does, but it's a good idea. I've lived at the same adress for 11
years, and not tightened my neutrals.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and
have
same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

wrote:

Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Check the voltages at your other outlets. If they read other than 120V,
you might have an open neutral, with other appliances on the
circuit acting as a voltage divider to create a virtual ground.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

OK
I will test the HOT and GROUND and see what voltage I get.

Thanks for the tip.



On Dec 11, 2:28 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
First, some terms.

A "short" is when something is connected, but shouldn't be. An "open"
is something not connected, but should be.

Since you have a VOM, please try reading from the hot to the ground.
If this gives you 110 volts, then the problem is with your neutral.

In any case, it's a good idea every couple years to take a screw
driver and tighten all the neutrals in your breaker box. I know no one
does, but it's a good idea. I've lived at the same adress for 11
years, and not tightened my neutrals.

CJT wrote:
wrote:

Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Check the voltages at your other outlets. If they read other than 120V,
you might have an open neutral, with other appliances on the
circuit acting as a voltage divider to create a virtual ground.

If the OP is using a digital meter, this might also be a completely
dead circuit with an induced voltage on it that will go away if, say, a
lamp is plugged in (which might be a worthwhile test.)

nate

wrote:
Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and
have same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

I fear an neutral problem, but I have to suggest one remote possibility.
If for some reason the current to that socket is turned off (or there is an
open circuit) and you are using most any digital meter, you may just be
measuring the stray voltage that can show up on dead lines.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Geoff wrote:
OK
I will test the HOT and GROUND and see what voltage I get.


No. Measure hot to neutral. Ideally with some load across the pair,
nearby.

Failing all else, you may want to enlist the services of a pro.
Electrical
power probs can get someone killed, or start a fire. Not good.

J

I will check what the circuit reads when having something plugged into
it...

G

Check the voltages at your other outlets. If they read other than 120V,
you might have an open neutral, with other appliances on the
circuit acting as a voltage divider to create a virtual ground.If the OP is using a digital meter, this might also be a completely
dead circuit with an induced voltage on it that will go away if, say, a
lamp is plugged in (which might be a worthwhile test.)

nate

I will test a few more things as suggested here... if I can't figure it
out I will be calling in a pro. Don't worry, I don't want my house to
burn down either.

Thanks everyone for their help / suggestions.
G


On Dec 11, 3:29 pm, wrote:
Geoff wrote:
OK
I will test the HOT and GROUND and see what voltage I get.No. Measure hot to neutral. Ideally with some load across the pair,
nearby.

Failing all else, you may want to enlist the services of a pro.
Electrical
power probs can get someone killed, or start a fire. Not good.

J

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and
have same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

I fear an neutral problem, but I have to suggest one remote
possibility. If for some reason the current to that socket is turned off
(or there is an open circuit) and you are using most any digital meter,
you may just be measuring the stray voltage that can show up on dead
lines.

Yes, when checking housewiring that is unloaded a DMM can do this. Plug a
lamp (or similar load) into the outlet and re-measure. Or, just see if the
lamp will come on. Could be a bad connection in a junction box. If it was
a floating neutral, I'd guess some other symptoms would be apparent.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Have you checked your attic for squirrels?? I had one chew right
through the wires, but when I turned on the light, I heard a thump
in the attic...squirrel is no longer chewing..he made a mess!

Geoff wrote:
ThanksWhat are the other outlets reading on each leg of your 220
in? Maybe the
transformer feeding your house is going bad on one leg? Check each
leg and if one is very dissamaler call your power company and have
them look into it.

Does the washer run OK?

Rich


Nope, washer won't run... I thought it went bad so we ran out and
bought a new one, only to find out the new one wouldnt run either.
Further investigation led me to finding the low voltage issue.

I am not having power issues anywhere else in the house, just this
single circuit.

G

That pretty much settles it. You said you had 120 at the breaker and 85 at
the plug. Somewhere between the breaker and the plug there is an open - the
wire is broken, a splice is opened up, a wire is off where it passes thru
another outlet, whatever.
The voltage you're reading is called "phantom" voltage and will disappear
if you put any kind of load on it. For instance, plug something into that
outlet and turn it on, but keep it unseated just enough to get your meter
probes on the blades; you'll find it's now reading 0 volts, I'm pretty sure.

HTH
Pop`

Stormin Mormon wrote:
First, some terms.

A "short" is when something is connected, but shouldn't be. An "open"
is something not connected, but should be.

Since you have a VOM, please try reading from the hot to the ground.
If this gives you 110 volts, then the problem is with your neutral.

In any case, it's a good idea every couple years to take a screw
driver and tighten all the neutrals in your breaker box. I know no one
does, but it's a good idea. I've lived at the same adress for 11
years, and not tightened my neutrals.

No, that's NOT a good idea. In fact, it's a good way for somoene who
doesn't know what they're doing to get killed. And probably overtighten all
the connections too. If it was done right, it won't change.

Pop`

On 11 Dec 2006 11:48:58 -0800, wrote:

Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Measure the voltage with nothing connected and again with some load
connected. You'll probably find nearly 0V with the load. In that case,
you have a wire that's not connected and an induced voltage.
--
14 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

N8N wrote:

CJT wrote:

wrote:


Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks


Check the voltages at your other outlets. If they read other than 120V,
you might have an open neutral, with other appliances on the
circuit acting as a voltage divider to create a virtual ground.


If the OP is using a digital meter, this might also be a completely
dead circuit with an induced voltage on it that will go away if, say, a
lamp is plugged in (which might be a worthwhile test.)

nate

Have you calculated how much capacitance (and hence, how many feet of
wire) would be required for that to be so?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Geoff wrote:

I will check what the circuit reads when having something plugged into
it...


Don't forget to turn it on! :-)

G


Check the voltages at your other outlets. If they read other than 120V,
you might have an open neutral, with other appliances on the
circuit acting as a voltage divider to create a virtual ground.If the OP is using a digital meter, this might also be a completely

dead circuit with an induced voltage on it that will go away if, say, a
lamp is plugged in (which might be a worthwhile test.)

nate




--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

CJT wrote:
N8N wrote:

CJT wrote:

wrote:


Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a sudden is
only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I have no idea
why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get the
same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and have
same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks


Check the voltages at your other outlets. If they read other than 120V,
you might have an open neutral, with other appliances on the
circuit acting as a voltage divider to create a virtual ground.



If the OP is using a digital meter, this might also be a completely
dead circuit with an induced voltage on it that will go away if, say, a
lamp is plugged in (which might be a worthwhile test.)

nate

Have you calculated how much capacitance (and hence, how many feet of
wire) would be required for that to be so?


Not really, but I have seen readings as high as 75VAC on a DMM on a dead
circuit before, so I don't think 85V is out of the question.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Everyone pretty much nailed the simptoms of the "phantom voltage". I
plugged some Christmas lights (festive I know) into the socket and
re-read the voltage, it dropped to Zero...

I Tested HOT to Ground and get 120V.
Testing HOT to Neutral produced the 0 or 85v (phantom).

So, somewhere in the circuit the Neutral has a bad connection. I will
trace it tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your assistance...

I also read a little bit about basic home wiring, so I have a better
understanding of what is going on now....

Thanks
Geoff


On Dec 11, 7:26 pm, "Pop`" wrote:

GThat pretty much settles it. You said you had 120 at the breaker and 85 at
the plug. Somewhere between the breaker and the plug there is an open - the
wire is broken, a splice is opened up, a wire is off where it passes thru
another outlet, whatever.
The voltage you're reading is called "phantom" voltage and will disappear
if you put any kind of load on it. For instance, plug something into that
outlet and turn it on, but keep it unseated just enough to get your meter
probes on the blades; you'll find it's now reading 0 volts, I'm pretty sure.

HTH
Pop`

Do you remember the Aesops fable of the man, the boy and the donkey?
It applies, here.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Geoff" wrote in message
ups.com...
I will check what the circuit reads when having something plugged into
it...

G

Check the voltages at your other outlets. If they read other than
120V,
you might have an open neutral, with other appliances on the
circuit acting as a voltage divider to create a virtual ground.If
the OP is using a digital meter, this might also be a completely
dead circuit with an induced voltage on it that will go away if,
say, a
lamp is plugged in (which might be a worthwhile test.)

nate

OK, now we have two opinions. Do I hear three?

More seriously, you're right that unskooled people ought not be
mucking about in panel boxes.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Pop`" wrote in message
news:BBnfh.5138$bj5.1012@trnddc07...
Stormin Mormon wrote:

In any case, it's a good idea every couple years to take a screw
driver and tighten all the neutrals in your breaker box. I know no
one
does, but it's a good idea. I've lived at the same adress for 11
years, and not tightened my neutrals.

No, that's NOT a good idea. In fact, it's a good way for somoene who
doesn't know what they're doing to get killed. And probably
overtighten all
the connections too. If it was done right, it won't change.

Pop`

Please remit $87.50 for internet consultation.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Geoff" wrote in message
ups.com...
Everyone pretty much nailed the simptoms of the "phantom voltage". I
plugged some Christmas lights (festive I know) into the socket and
re-read the voltage, it dropped to Zero...

I Tested HOT to Ground and get 120V.
Testing HOT to Neutral produced the 0 or 85v (phantom).

So, somewhere in the circuit the Neutral has a bad connection. I will
trace it tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your assistance...

I also read a little bit about basic home wiring, so I have a better
understanding of what is going on now....

Thanks
Geoff

CJT wrote:
N8N wrote:

CJT wrote:

wrote:


Hello

I have a single electric socket for my washer which all of a
sudden is only reading 85V. The socket is on its own circuit and I
have no idea why the drop in voltage.

I have removed the socket and tested just the bare wires and get
the same reading.
I have swapped out the circuit breaker (with a known good one) and
have same problem.

What else might be causing this? I am guessing I have a short
somewhere... Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks


Check the voltages at your other outlets. If they read other than
120V, you might have an open neutral, with other appliances on the
circuit acting as a voltage divider to create a virtual ground.


If the OP is using a digital meter, this might also be a completely
dead circuit with an induced voltage on it that will go away if,
say, a lamp is plugged in (which might be a worthwhile test.)

nate

Have you calculated how much capacitance (and hence, how many feet of
wire) would be required for that to be so?

Not necessary, but YOU can if you wish. The wire, capacitance, and the
inductance also BTW, are almost entirely IN the meter! The higher the
meter's input Z, the higher the phantom voltage it will see. Meter input
Z's range usually from a Meg to a hundred Meg ohms or more; do the math. Or
test it out.

Pop`