Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

it all depends on how far and difficult it is to replace wiring and
outlet....... plus does your breaker box have any unused slots?

is the wire exposed? or hidden?

Frankly unless your treadmill is a PRO model its hard to believe it
will really need 20 amps.

RS wrote:

I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

The material cost on this would be fairly small. The vast majority of
the cost would be in labour.

In any case, you should probably get a few more estimates.

Do you know anyone else there? Find out if they have had electrical
work done, who they hired to do it, and what they thought of them.

Chris

A dedicated 20 amp cable must be run from the circuit breaker panel to the
location of the outlet. The easier and quicker it is to do this, the less it
will cost. I would suggest getting another estimate



"RS" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

It's not at all possible to even guess at an answer to that question.
If there is a circuit breaker panel in the garage and the garage walls
are unfinished, I would say that's way too much. On the otherhand, if
the breaker panel is in the house and he has to fish cable through the
attic and walls, it might be a reasonable price.

If the breaker panel is in the house, I would consider spending some
extra money and running a heavy cable to the garage and installing a
new breaker panel in the garage. While you are at it, you might want to
considering adding a provision for future wiring to a backyard shed.

Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi

(RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

Frankly unless your treadmill is a PRO model its hard to believe it
will really need 20 amps.

I guess he will dump energy back to the grid when he is on the treadmill. I
would not tangle with him!

Seriously, 20A seems a bit much.

On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:

Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

You might be able to do it yourself. The first thing you should do
(with the power off) is pull out the receptacle. If it has #12 wire
then changing the outlet and the breaker is all that is needed. You
should also find out what does not work with the power off.

A treadmill is something you don't need to use if anything else is on
the circuit that carries a big load.

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

---
9 out of 10 dentists agree that 1 out of 10 dentists are morons.

On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:

Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I thought a treadmill worked off people power. I can't imagine why
you would have one that needs a 20A circuit

You may want to try snaking the new 12ga wire from the treadmill room to the
main panel your self
and then just have some one put the breaker in for you I'm sure there's
someone in your family or at work
that could put in a breaker for you if not hire a electrician for the outlet
and breaker install
all the real work is getting that wire through the walls. even do the outlet
yourself just use a old works box they are very simple to install.

"RS" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

In article .com, "RS" wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet.

Since the wires are concealed, he's going to have to open up the wall at some
point -- which means repairing it after he's done. His quote seems a bit steep
to me, though, even accounting for that. I wonder if he considered running the
new cable up from the breaker panel to the attic over the garage (assuming you
*have* an attic up there!), and from there back down to wherever you want the
outlet. That should be less expensive, even though it takes more wire, because
there won't be nearly as much labor in opening up walls and repairing
afterward.

Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

In most cities, it's the contractor's responsibility to get the permit, not
the homeowner's.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , Terry wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Terry wrote:
On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:

Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill
needs a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to
change from 15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to
the door and $900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I thought a treadmill worked off people power. I can't imagine why
you would have one that needs a 20A circuit

Only the really cheap ones don't have motors. Mine has a 2 HP DC motor.
It is not a pro model. I have seen them with at least 3.5HP motors (note
these are not the inflated numbers). Using what ever system they use to
come up for advertising use I have seen 6 HP listed.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

I seriously doubt you will find 12 gauge wire on a 15 amp
breaker.......

Such projects require creative thinking on how easily to run cable or
even a better location for the treadmill.

..

RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I agree with the op about checking the gauge of the wire first. Is it
12 or 14?
You could possibly have #12 wire (20 amp) on a 15 amp breaker. In that
case all you need to do is switch out the breaker to a 20 amp.

-Felder

RS wrote:

Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi


Jeepers, a 3.5 HP motor for a one person treadmill?

Hard to believe, but that's what they claim:

http://www.soletreadmills.com/details.php?name=F85

I bet that's the same "peak starting" horsepower "BS" claimed for many
cheap air compressors and some vacuum cleaners too.

3.5 HP is 2611 watts (at 100% efficiency no less). You can't take that
much continuously from a 20 amp 120 volt circuit without popping the
breaker.

Before you spend money on new wiring I'd suggest you find someone with
an ac ammeter, plug the treadmill into your present 15 amp circuit, and
have them measure the actual current it's drawing when during typical
usage. At worst you'll pop the breaker if my assumption about that
horsepower "hype" is incorrect.

You might just be pleasantly suprised to find out it never draws enough
current to overload a 15 amp circuit.

If it does, then spend the money on new wiring.

HTH,

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Terry wrote:

On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:


Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill
needs a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to
change from 15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to
the door and $900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I thought a treadmill worked off people power. I can't imagine why
you would have one that needs a 20A circuit


Only the really cheap ones don't have motors. Mine has a 2 HP DC motor.
It is not a pro model. I have seen them with at least 3.5HP motors (note
these are not the inflated numbers). Using what ever system they use to
come up for advertising use I have seen 6 HP listed.


That just proves that some people will buy almost anything. Jogging
requires no electricity.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

wrote:
I seriously doubt you will find 12 gauge wire on a 15 amp
breaker.......


You wouldn't think so. But, I have found 14 gauge wire on a 20 amp
breaker. So, it's at least worth a look.

-Felder

wrote in message
oups.com...
I seriously doubt you will find 12 gauge wire on a 15 amp
breaker.......

That is certainly not true. When copper was cheaper some electricians
didn't bother to stock 14 & 12; they just ran 12 everywhere.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.
Unsafe? Maybe. Illegal? Sure.

It is hard to believe that a treadmill take more power than my table saw.

"RS" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

Can the treadmill run on 240v? It would be relatively cheap to change the
circuit to a 240v/15a; though obviously you would have to change/disconnect
all the other outlets on the circuit.

People do all sorts of Rube Goldberg things, but in the electrical field, if
the proper standards are followed, second guessing shouldn't be a factor. If
the manufacturer installs a 20 amp plug on a device, it should draw more
than 12 amps and no more than 16 at full load



"Toller" wrote in message
news

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.
Unsafe? Maybe. Illegal? Sure.

It is hard to believe that a treadmill take more power than my table saw.

In article , "Toller" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.

No, it IS unsafe, period -- because it enables plugging in a 20A load on a
circuit that cannot safely carry 20A. Maybe the load the OP is going to plug
into it today only draws 3A -- but you can't predict what might be plugged in
there tomorrow, or next week, or next year. It absolutely is unsafe to attach
a 20A receptacle to a 15A circuit. There is a REASON why 20A plugs and
receptacles exist: to keep them from being plugged in on 15A circuits.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Toller wrote:
"RS" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

Can the treadmill run on 240v? It would be relatively cheap to change the
circuit to a 240v/15a; though obviously you would have to change/disconnect
all the other outlets on the circuit.

sorry you would need 4 conductors, 3 wire 240 isnt permitted

In article .com, " wrote:

Toller wrote:
"RS" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

Can the treadmill run on 240v? It would be relatively cheap to change the
circuit to a 240v/15a; though obviously you would have to change/disconnect
all the other outlets on the circuit.

sorry you would need 4 conductors, 3 wire 240 isnt permitted

False.

3-wire 240V is just fine for any purely 240V load (e.g. resistance heating, or
a 240V motor). 4-wire is required *only* for devices that have both 240V and
120V loads, such as a clothes dryer or an electric range, both of which have
240V heating elements and 120V control and timer circuits.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I agree with the op about checking the gauge of the wire first. Is it
12 or 14?
You could possibly have #12 wire (20 amp) on a 15 amp breaker. In that
case all you need to do is switch out the breaker to a 20 amp.

-Felder

WARNING although the wire gauge at that outlet MIGHT BE 12 thats no
guarantee its 12 gauge thruout the entire breakers circuit!


for any number of reasons like voltage drop somone MAY have run a 12
gauge wire part way thru the circuit ..............

I doubt the machine could be wired 240 volt, but why would it require four
wire. It's not a cooking equipment


wrote in message
oups.com...

Toller wrote:
"RS" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

Can the treadmill run on 240v? It would be relatively cheap to change
the
circuit to a 240v/15a; though obviously you would have to
change/disconnect
all the other outlets on the circuit.

sorry you would need 4 conductors, 3 wire 240 isnt permitted

RS wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi

(RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I gotta tell ya, at first I thought you were being raked over the coals
by that contractor, but after viewing the website for Seattle's
Building Dept.:

https://egov1.seattle.gov/dpd/Online...WhatKindOfWork

Indeed, any electrical work short of replacing a switch, receptacle,
ballast, or fuse requires an electrical permit in Seattle!

That explains the ridiculous prices that you were quoted. Try to get
some more bids to see if that price is in the ballpark for your area.
In my area $300(US) will get one a 20 amp circuit anywhere in any
house.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

I used to hear that the suicide rate in Seattle was the highest in the
country, but I thought it was because of the weather


"volts500" wrote in message
ps.com...
RS wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi

(RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I gotta tell ya, at first I thought you were being raked over the coals
by that contractor, but after viewing the website for Seattle's
Building Dept.:

https://egov1.seattle.gov/dpd/Online...WhatKindOfWork

Indeed, any electrical work short of replacing a switch, receptacle,
ballast, or fuse requires an electrical permit in Seattle!

That explains the ridiculous prices that you were quoted. Try to get
some more bids to see if that price is in the ballpark for your area.
In my area $300(US) will get one a 20 amp circuit anywhere in any
house.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

That is so not true. It is called cover your ass.
I have 3 kitchen appliances that have digital clocks.
The instructions say to unplug the appliance when not in use.

Why would you put a digital clock on a device that you only plug up
for an hour a day?



On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 21:24:48 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

People do all sorts of Rube Goldberg things, but in the electrical field, if
the proper standards are followed, second guessing shouldn't be a factor. If
the manufacturer installs a 20 amp plug on a device, it should draw more
than 12 amps and no more than 16 at full load



"Toller" wrote in message
news

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.
Unsafe? Maybe. Illegal? Sure.

It is hard to believe that a treadmill take more power than my table saw.

No, actually its called National Electric Code, and Underwriters
Laboratories





"Terry" wrote in message
...
That is so not true. It is called cover your ass.



I have 3 kitchen appliances that have digital clocks.
The instructions say to unplug the appliance when not in use.

Why would you put a digital clock on a device that you only plug up
for an hour a day?



On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 21:24:48 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

People do all sorts of Rube Goldberg things, but in the electrical field,
if
the proper standards are followed, second guessing shouldn't be a factor.
If
the manufacturer installs a 20 amp plug on a device, it should draw more
than 12 amps and no more than 16 at full load



"Toller" wrote in message
news

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a
load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a
20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.
Unsafe? Maybe. Illegal? Sure.

It is hard to believe that a treadmill take more power than my table
saw.

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:28:50 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , "Toller" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
y.net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.

No, it IS unsafe, period -- because it enables plugging in a 20A load on a
circuit that cannot safely carry 20A. Maybe the load the OP is going to plug
into it today only draws 3A -- but you can't predict what might be plugged in
there tomorrow, or next week, or next year. It absolutely is unsafe to attach
a 20A receptacle to a 15A circuit. There is a REASON why 20A plugs and
receptacles exist: to keep them from being plugged in on 15A circuits.

State your source.

It is 100% legal to use a 20A receptacle on a 15A breaker. If you
plug in a appliance that draws more than 15A then the circuit is
protected by the 15A breaker. (That is what it is there for)

It won't work if you try it, but that doesn't make it unsafe.

RBM (remove this) wrote:
I doubt the machine could be wired 240 volt, but why would it require four
wire. It's not a cooking equipment

I have a 4 wire compressor. 2 hots, 1 neutral and a ground.

I think more and more 240 volt appliances are going 4 wire.

On 6 Dec 2006 18:34:19 -0800, "
wrote:



I agree with the op about checking the gauge of the wire first. Is it
12 or 14?
You could possibly have #12 wire (20 amp) on a 15 amp breaker. In that
case all you need to do is switch out the breaker to a 20 amp.

-Felder

WARNING although the wire gauge at that outlet MIGHT BE 12 thats no
guarantee its 12 gauge thruout the entire breakers circuit!


for any number of reasons like voltage drop somone MAY have run a 12
gauge wire part way thru the circuit ..............

This is true, but it can be a reasonable assumption if you have #12 at
the outlet (in and out). You can then check the panel and if it has
#12 you can be reasonably sure.

"sorry you would need 4 conductors, 3 wire 240 isn't permitted" It is
permitted where applicable. Some equipment require neutrals and some don't

wrote in message
ups.com...

RBM (remove this) wrote:
I doubt the machine could be wired 240 volt, but why would it require
four
wire. It's not a cooking equipment

I have a 4 wire compressor. 2 hots, 1 neutral and a ground.

I think more and more 240 volt appliances are going 4 wire.

for any number of reasons like voltage drop somone MAY have run a 12
gauge wire part way thru the circuit ..............

This is true, but it can be a reasonable assumption if you have #12 at
the outlet (in and out). You can then check the panel and if it has
#12 you can be reasonably sure.

I SUGGEST someone check EVERY outlet and fixture on that circuit!

People do all sorts of wird things. I know someone wh combined many
circuits in work boxes to save some ground wires

better safe than sorry.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Toller"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
y.net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a
load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a
20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.

No, it IS unsafe, period -- because it enables plugging in a 20A load on a
circuit that cannot safely carry 20A. Maybe the load the OP is going to
plug
into it today only draws 3A -- but you can't predict what might be plugged
in
there tomorrow, or next week, or next year. It absolutely is unsafe to
attach
a 20A receptacle to a 15A circuit. There is a REASON why 20A plugs and
receptacles exist: to keep them from being plugged in on 15A circuits.

Except for my table saw I don't think I have even seen anything that
required 20a. Chances of a problem are remote. Especially since a) it
would only be a small overload; my 23a water heater ran on #12 for 35 years
before I noticed it, and b) the breaker should cover it.

However, your point is not without merit. If the item can run on a 15a
circuit it would be better to change the plug.

NEC , table 210.21 (B) (3) shows you can't install a 20 amp outlet on a 15
amp circuit




"Terry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:28:50 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , "Toller"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
gy.net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a
load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a
20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.

No, it IS unsafe, period -- because it enables plugging in a 20A load on a
circuit that cannot safely carry 20A. Maybe the load the OP is going to
plug
into it today only draws 3A -- but you can't predict what might be plugged
in
there tomorrow, or next week, or next year. It absolutely is unsafe to
attach
a 20A receptacle to a 15A circuit. There is a REASON why 20A plugs and
receptacles exist: to keep them from being plugged in on 15A circuits.

State your source.

It is 100% legal to use a 20A receptacle on a 15A breaker. If you
plug in a appliance that draws more than 15A then the circuit is
protected by the 15A breaker. (That is what it is there for)

It won't work if you try it, but that doesn't make it unsafe.

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
I doubt the machine could be wired 240 volt, but why would it require four
wire. It's not a cooking equipment

Probably not, there are likely to be some displays or something else that
require 120v, but to save $900 it is worth looking into.
If the damn thing actually requires a 20a circuit, it should be convertable.

Toller wrote:
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
I doubt the machine could be wired 240 volt, but why would it require four
wire. It's not a cooking equipment

Probably not, there are likely to be some displays or something else that
require 120v, but to save $900 it is worth looking into.
If the damn thing actually requires a 20a circuit, it should be convertable.

well if theres nothing else on that circuit it could be converted to
240 at the breaker end then install a transformer to take the 240 back
to 120.....

but in all honesty it might be cheaper to buy a brand new treadmill
that runs on 15 amp......

new treadmill with all the latest best features including safety
ones......

does the treadmill have a 20 amp plug on it?

any other close by 20 amp circuits around? whats on the other side of
that garage wall?