Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

it all depends on how far and difficult it is to replace wiring and
outlet....... plus does your breaker box have any unused slots?

is the wire exposed? or hidden?

Frankly unless your treadmill is a PRO model its hard to believe it
will really need 20 amps.

Frankly unless your treadmill is a PRO model its hard to believe it
will really need 20 amps.

I guess he will dump energy back to the grid when he is on the treadmill. I
would not tangle with him!

Seriously, 20A seems a bit much.

On 6 Dec 2006 15:46:07 -0800, "
wrote:


RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

it all depends on how far and difficult it is to replace wiring and
outlet....... plus does your breaker box have any unused slots?

is the wire exposed? or hidden?

Frankly unless your treadmill is a PRO model its hard to believe it
will really need 20 amps.

And to think, there was a time when they used treadmills to
GENERATE power.....

RS wrote:

I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

The material cost on this would be fairly small. The vast majority of
the cost would be in labour.

In any case, you should probably get a few more estimates.

Do you know anyone else there? Find out if they have had electrical
work done, who they hired to do it, and what they thought of them.

Chris

A dedicated 20 amp cable must be run from the circuit breaker panel to the
location of the outlet. The easier and quicker it is to do this, the less it
will cost. I would suggest getting another estimate



"RS" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

It's not at all possible to even guess at an answer to that question.
If there is a circuit breaker panel in the garage and the garage walls
are unfinished, I would say that's way too much. On the otherhand, if
the breaker panel is in the house and he has to fish cable through the
attic and walls, it might be a reasonable price.

If the breaker panel is in the house, I would consider spending some
extra money and running a heavy cable to the garage and installing a
new breaker panel in the garage. While you are at it, you might want to
considering adding a provision for future wiring to a backyard shed.

Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi

(RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

In article .com, "RS" wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet.

Since the wires are concealed, he's going to have to open up the wall at some
point -- which means repairing it after he's done. His quote seems a bit steep
to me, though, even accounting for that. I wonder if he considered running the
new cable up from the breaker panel to the attic over the garage (assuming you
*have* an attic up there!), and from there back down to wherever you want the
outlet. That should be less expensive, even though it takes more wire, because
there won't be nearly as much labor in opening up walls and repairing
afterward.

Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

In most cities, it's the contractor's responsibility to get the permit, not
the homeowner's.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Finding the keyboard operational
Doug Miller entered:

In article .com,
"RS" wrote:

Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric
board - I wasn't aware we had to do that!

In most cities, it's the contractor's responsibility to get the
permit, not
the homeowner's.
I am used to contractors charging for their time if they get the permit but
they doen't charge it the homeowner gets it. What worries me if I get my ow
permit is that I do it wrong, I would be the responsible party.
Bob


--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

RS wrote:

Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi


Jeepers, a 3.5 HP motor for a one person treadmill?

Hard to believe, but that's what they claim:

http://www.soletreadmills.com/details.php?name=F85

I bet that's the same "peak starting" horsepower "BS" claimed for many
cheap air compressors and some vacuum cleaners too.

3.5 HP is 2611 watts (at 100% efficiency no less). You can't take that
much continuously from a 20 amp 120 volt circuit without popping the
breaker.

Before you spend money on new wiring I'd suggest you find someone with
an ac ammeter, plug the treadmill into your present 15 amp circuit, and
have them measure the actual current it's drawing when during typical
usage. At worst you'll pop the breaker if my assumption about that
horsepower "hype" is incorrect.

You might just be pleasantly suprised to find out it never draws enough
current to overload a 15 amp circuit.

If it does, then spend the money on new wiring.

HTH,

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
RS wrote:

Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi


Jeepers, a 3.5 HP motor for a one person treadmill?

Hard to believe, but that's what they claim:

http://www.soletreadmills.com/details.php?name=F85

I bet that's the same "peak starting" horsepower "BS" claimed for many
cheap air compressors and some vacuum cleaners too.

3.5 HP is 2611 watts (at 100% efficiency no less). You can't take that
much continuously from a 20 amp 120 volt circuit without popping the
breaker.

Before you spend money on new wiring I'd suggest you find someone with
an ac ammeter, plug the treadmill into your present 15 amp circuit, and
have them measure the actual current it's drawing when during typical
usage. At worst you'll pop the breaker if my assumption about that
horsepower "hype" is incorrect.

You might just be pleasantly suprised to find out it never draws enough
current to overload a 15 amp circuit.

If it does, then spend the money on new wiring.

HTH,

Jeff


What the OP needs to do is look at the ampere
rating, not the HP rating of the motor.
You are probably right about them using peak
horsepower. My 5hp compressor works fine on 15
amps even on a 50 foot extension cord.

An actual 3.5 HP motor would require a 30 amp
circuit.

RS wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi

(RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I gotta tell ya, at first I thought you were being raked over the coals
by that contractor, but after viewing the website for Seattle's
Building Dept.:

https://egov1.seattle.gov/dpd/Online...WhatKindOfWork

Indeed, any electrical work short of replacing a switch, receptacle,
ballast, or fuse requires an electrical permit in Seattle!

That explains the ridiculous prices that you were quoted. Try to get
some more bids to see if that price is in the ballpark for your area.
In my area $300(US) will get one a 20 amp circuit anywhere in any
house.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

I used to hear that the suicide rate in Seattle was the highest in the
country, but I thought it was because of the weather


"volts500" wrote in message
ps.com...
RS wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi

(RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I gotta tell ya, at first I thought you were being raked over the coals
by that contractor, but after viewing the website for Seattle's
Building Dept.:

https://egov1.seattle.gov/dpd/Online...WhatKindOfWork

Indeed, any electrical work short of replacing a switch, receptacle,
ballast, or fuse requires an electrical permit in Seattle!

That explains the ridiculous prices that you were quoted. Try to get
some more bids to see if that price is in the ballpark for your area.
In my area $300(US) will get one a 20 amp circuit anywhere in any
house.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

RBM (remove this) wrote:
I used to hear that the suicide rate in Seattle was the highest in the
country, but I thought it was because of the weather

LOL. I wonder how many of those suicides result from dealing with the
building department. Permit fees are more than 10% of the OP's low bid
of $600......$68.85 = $56.65 for Admin fees, $10.80 for the circuit and
$1.40 for the receptacle connect.

With approx. $70 for the permit and $50 for the materials, I guess
about $500 for an hour of work ain't bad.

"volts500" wrote in message
ps.com...
RS wrote:
Thank you for all the replies. Yes the treadmill is a PRO model - it's
a Sole F85! The wires are concealed and the distance from the circuit
breaker for the 2 wall will be approximately 10 feet and 17 feet. Also
the electrician mentioned getting a permit from the city electric board
- I wasn't aware we had to do that!

Rashmi

(RS wrote:
Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I gotta tell ya, at first I thought you were being raked over the coals
by that contractor, but after viewing the website for Seattle's
Building Dept.:

https://egov1.seattle.gov/dpd/Online...WhatKindOfWork

Indeed, any electrical work short of replacing a switch, receptacle,
ballast, or fuse requires an electrical permit in Seattle!

That explains the ridiculous prices that you were quoted. Try to get
some more bids to see if that price is in the ballpark for your area.
In my area $300(US) will get one a 20 amp circuit anywhere in any
house.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.

On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:

Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

You might be able to do it yourself. The first thing you should do
(with the power off) is pull out the receptacle. If it has #12 wire
then changing the outlet and the breaker is all that is needed. You
should also find out what does not work with the power off.

A treadmill is something you don't need to use if anything else is on
the circuit that carries a big load.

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

---
9 out of 10 dentists agree that 1 out of 10 dentists are morons.

In article , Terry wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I seriously doubt you will find 12 gauge wire on a 15 amp
breaker.......

Such projects require creative thinking on how easily to run cable or
even a better location for the treadmill.

..

wrote:
I seriously doubt you will find 12 gauge wire on a 15 amp
breaker.......


You wouldn't think so. But, I have found 14 gauge wire on a 20 amp
breaker. So, it's at least worth a look.

-Felder

wrote in message
oups.com...
I seriously doubt you will find 12 gauge wire on a 15 amp
breaker.......

That is certainly not true. When copper was cheaper some electricians
didn't bother to stock 14 & 12; they just ran 12 everywhere.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.
Unsafe? Maybe. Illegal? Sure.

It is hard to believe that a treadmill take more power than my table saw.

People do all sorts of Rube Goldberg things, but in the electrical field, if
the proper standards are followed, second guessing shouldn't be a factor. If
the manufacturer installs a 20 amp plug on a device, it should draw more
than 12 amps and no more than 16 at full load



"Toller" wrote in message
news

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.
Unsafe? Maybe. Illegal? Sure.

It is hard to believe that a treadmill take more power than my table saw.

That is so not true. It is called cover your ass.
I have 3 kitchen appliances that have digital clocks.
The instructions say to unplug the appliance when not in use.

Why would you put a digital clock on a device that you only plug up
for an hour a day?



On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 21:24:48 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

People do all sorts of Rube Goldberg things, but in the electrical field, if
the proper standards are followed, second guessing shouldn't be a factor. If
the manufacturer installs a 20 amp plug on a device, it should draw more
than 12 amps and no more than 16 at full load



"Toller" wrote in message
news

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.
Unsafe? Maybe. Illegal? Sure.

It is hard to believe that a treadmill take more power than my table saw.

RBM wrote:

People do all sorts of Rube Goldberg things, but in the electrical field, if
the proper standards are followed, second guessing shouldn't be a factor. If
the manufacturer installs a 20 amp plug on a device, it should draw more
than 12 amps and no more than 16 at full load

A few code cycles back there were several proposals to modify 210.21-B-2
(probably, but not imortant). One agrument was that some UL listed
devices, like hair dryers, with current draw of 12-15A can have 15A
plugs. I would guess that 20A non-continuous loads can have 20A plug.
(The codemaking panel response was 'we're right, UL is wrong'.) (It
would be nice if UL standards were on-line.)

--
bud--

In article , "Toller" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.

No, it IS unsafe, period -- because it enables plugging in a 20A load on a
circuit that cannot safely carry 20A. Maybe the load the OP is going to plug
into it today only draws 3A -- but you can't predict what might be plugged in
there tomorrow, or next week, or next year. It absolutely is unsafe to attach
a 20A receptacle to a 15A circuit. There is a REASON why 20A plugs and
receptacles exist: to keep them from being plugged in on 15A circuits.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 02:28:50 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , "Toller" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
y.net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.

No, it IS unsafe, period -- because it enables plugging in a 20A load on a
circuit that cannot safely carry 20A. Maybe the load the OP is going to plug
into it today only draws 3A -- but you can't predict what might be plugged in
there tomorrow, or next week, or next year. It absolutely is unsafe to attach
a 20A receptacle to a 15A circuit. There is a REASON why 20A plugs and
receptacles exist: to keep them from being plugged in on 15A circuits.

State your source.

It is 100% legal to use a 20A receptacle on a 15A breaker. If you
plug in a appliance that draws more than 15A then the circuit is
protected by the 15A breaker. (That is what it is there for)

It won't work if you try it, but that doesn't make it unsafe.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Toller"
wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
y.net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a
load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a
20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.

No, it IS unsafe, period -- because it enables plugging in a 20A load on a
circuit that cannot safely carry 20A. Maybe the load the OP is going to
plug
into it today only draws 3A -- but you can't predict what might be plugged
in
there tomorrow, or next week, or next year. It absolutely is unsafe to
attach
a 20A receptacle to a 15A circuit. There is a REASON why 20A plugs and
receptacles exist: to keep them from being plugged in on 15A circuits.

Except for my table saw I don't think I have even seen anything that
required 20a. Chances of a problem are remote. Especially since a) it
would only be a small overload; my 23a water heater ran on #12 for 35 years
before I noticed it, and b) the breaker should cover it.

However, your point is not without merit. If the item can run on a 15a
circuit it would be better to change the plug.

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "Toller" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
y.net...

In article , Terry
wrote:


If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load
that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp
plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.


It is probably unsafe, but not necessarily.
They could have put a 20a plug on a device that draws 3a.


No, it IS unsafe, period -- because it enables plugging in a 20A load on a
circuit that cannot safely carry 20A. Maybe the load the OP is going to plug
into it today only draws 3A -- but you can't predict what might be plugged in
there tomorrow, or next week, or next year. It absolutely is unsafe to attach
a 20A receptacle to a 15A circuit. There is a REASON why 20A plugs and
receptacles exist: to keep them from being plugged in on 15A circuits.

Why wouldn't the 15 amp breaker protect against such overloads?

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Putting a 20 amp outlet on a 14 ga circuit that is protected by a
15 amp CB or fuse is NOT unsafe, and further, it is explicitly allowed
by the NEC. The circuit will still be protected at the 15 amp level
that is appropriate for 14 gauge wire.

OTOH, installing a 20 amp BREAKER in a 14 gauge circuit with a 15 amp
_or_ 20 amp outlet WOULD be unsafe and a violation of code.
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland -

wrote:

Putting a 20 amp outlet on a 14 ga circuit that is protected by a
15 amp CB or fuse is NOT unsafe, and further, it is explicitly allowed
by the NEC. The circuit will still be protected at the 15 amp level
that is appropriate for 14 gauge wire.

NEC(2002) Table 210.21(B)(3) "Receptacle Ratings for Various Size
Circuits" explicitly states that a 15 amp circuit must have a
receptacle rating of "Not over 15 amps." Where in the NEC does it
explicitly state that 20 amp receptacles are permited to be installed
on 15 amp circuits?

wrote:

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

In article , Terry
wrote:


If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.


Putting a 20 amp outlet on a 14 ga circuit that is protected by a
15 amp CB or fuse is NOT unsafe, and further, it is explicitly allowed
by the NEC.

What about that 210.21(B)(3) cite provided by the other poster?

The circuit will still be protected at the 15 amp level
that is appropriate for 14 gauge wire.

OTOH, installing a 20 amp BREAKER in a 14 gauge circuit with a 15 amp
_or_ 20 amp outlet WOULD be unsafe and a violation of code.


--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

In article , () wrote:
In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a load that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a 20amp plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.


Putting a 20 amp outlet on a 14 ga circuit that is protected by a
15 amp CB or fuse is NOT unsafe,

False.

and further, it is explicitly allowed
by the NEC.

False again -- the fact is that it is explicitly *prohibited* by the NEC. See
Table 210.21(B)(3).

The circuit will still be protected at the 15 amp level
that is appropriate for 14 gauge wire.

IF the breaker operates properly...

OTOH, installing a 20 amp BREAKER in a 14 gauge circuit with a 15 amp
_or_ 20 amp outlet WOULD be unsafe and a violation of code.

Installing a 20A receptacle on any circuit with 14ga wire is unsafe and a
violation of Code.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

And what's the problem if the breaker is 15 amps?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a
load that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry. DO NOT put a
20amp plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:11:58 GMT, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

And what's the problem if the breaker is 15 amps?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article , Terry
wrote:

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

NO NO NO NO NO !!!! This is UNSAFE, because it enables plugging in a
load that
will draw more current than the wire can safely carry.


The wire can carry 15A. How is it going to carry more, with a 15A
breaker?

DO NOT put a
20amp plug
on a circuit that has only 14ga wire. UNSAFE. ILLEGAL.
--
18 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

In article , "Stormin Mormon" wrote:
And what's the problem if the breaker is 15 amps?

I guess you've never seen a breaker fail to operate...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article ,
says...
In article , "Stormin Mormon" wrote:
And what's the problem if the breaker is 15 amps?

I guess you've never seen a breaker fail to operate...

The same could be said of the 12 gauge wire in a properly wired 20A
circuit. The code is designed to protect against damage caused by
improper usage, not defective breakers. One must assume that the
wiring and breakers are correctly sized and installed and working
correctly, otherwise, one would never use any electrical devices in
the home.

Finding the keyboard operational
Terry entered:

On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:

Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill
needs a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to
change from 15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to
the door and $900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

You might be able to do it yourself. The first thing you should do
(with the power off) is pull out the receptacle. If it has #12 wire
then changing the outlet and the breaker is all that is needed. You
should also find out what does not work with the power off.

A treadmill is something you don't need to use if anything else is on
the circuit that carries a big load.

If you have #14 gauge wire then you might still be able to use the
treadmill by only changing the receptacle. You should not change the
breaker in this case.

---
9 out of 10 dentists agree that 1 out of 10 dentists are morons.

May be a dumb question but what would happen if he left the wire in the wall
alone and changed the "plug" on the device to a 15 amp? If the breaker
popped, the OP could change the plug back and worry about the 20 amp
circuit.
It would also be interesting to know if the treadmill has a mfrs plat the
states it draws 20 amps. And wouldn't a device like this also have it's own
fuse/cb?
Bob
--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:

Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill needs
a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to change from
15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to the door and
$900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I thought a treadmill worked off people power. I can't imagine why
you would have one that needs a 20A circuit

Terry wrote:
On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:

Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill
needs a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to
change from 15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to
the door and $900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I thought a treadmill worked off people power. I can't imagine why
you would have one that needs a 20A circuit

Only the really cheap ones don't have motors. Mine has a 2 HP DC motor.
It is not a pro model. I have seen them with at least 3.5HP motors (note
these are not the inflated numbers). Using what ever system they use to
come up for advertising use I have seen 6 HP listed.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Terry wrote:

On 6 Dec 2006 15:38:27 -0800, "RS" wrote:


Hi
I just moved to Seattle and we bought a treadmill which we've kept in
the garage. Now the garage has a 15amp circuit but the treadmill
needs a 20 amp one. We asked an electrician to give us a quote to
change from 15 to 20 and he has quoted $600 for the wall closet to
the door and $900 for a wall further.

I am novice at this, could someone tell me what would be a good price
to pay for this?

Thanks
Rashmi

I thought a treadmill worked off people power. I can't imagine why
you would have one that needs a 20A circuit


Only the really cheap ones don't have motors. Mine has a 2 HP DC motor.
It is not a pro model. I have seen them with at least 3.5HP motors (note
these are not the inflated numbers). Using what ever system they use to
come up for advertising use I have seen 6 HP listed.


That just proves that some people will buy almost anything. Jogging
requires no electricity.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .