I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

Do you want your new furnace installed by a *qualified* technician?? or by
"Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob"??

I have 3 choices:

You have a lot more choices than just Bryant.

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

I am not going to comment about brands other than to say.... check Consumer
Reports.

Noon-Air wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

Do you want your new furnace installed by a *qualified* technician?? or by
"Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob"??

But, how do I know he's not qualified? He's licensed and insured, and
the company has been a member of the BBB since 1980 and has no
complaints in the last 3 years, the maximum reporting period.
Correction: has been in business for 26 years to be exact, not 15.

My belief is that someone doesn't necessarily have to be "certified
this" and "certified that" as long as they have the proper licenses,
insurance, and experience to do the work. The company obviously is
able to install and repair HVAC based on it's record. I'm just
speculating here. Is there anything wrong with my reasoning?


I have 3 choices:

You have a lot more choices than just Bryant.

You will see the 3rd one is Rheem. I also got a quote from a Lennox
dealer but wasn't terribly impressed. I just don't have time to get a
quote from every brand when it takes an hour each. Rheem is highly
rated according to CR.


Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

I am not going to comment about brands other than to say.... check Consumer
Reports.

On 25 Sep 2006 18:00:20 -0700, wrote:

I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions.

I like things that are high tech. So I'd go for a Carrier Infinity system,
like: http://www.residential.carrier.com/
with the fancy thermostat/humidistat and web control.

Don www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

writes:

Noon-Air wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

Do you want your new furnace installed by a *qualified* technician?? or by
"Billy-Joe-Jim-Bob"??

But, how do I know he's not qualified? He's licensed and insured, and
the company has been a member of the BBB since 1980 and has no
complaints in the last 3 years, the maximum reporting period.
Correction: has been in business for 26 years to be exact, not 15.

These are all plusses.

My belief is that someone doesn't necessarily have to be "certified
this" and "certified that" as long as they have the proper licenses,
insurance, and experience to do the work. The company obviously is
able to install and repair HVAC based on it's record. I'm just
speculating here. Is there anything wrong with my reasoning?

The only thing you may be missing is any assurance on continuing
education. These high efficiency furnaces have only come about in the
latter half of this company's career, and are a good deal more
complicated than the old stuff, and 13SEER A/C if you're doing it
surely present new things to know as well. One thing the certs might
potentially bring is some assurance that they are current with changes
that have occurred in hte industry lately. Others can answer whether
those certs actually have such continuing ed requirements.

But that said, I too am curious/dubious about the cert value. But it
certainly wouldn't be a strike against someone. And frankly, if
someone's name is on the business and I'm getting a 10 year warranty
from them and they've been in business for 26 years, I'm worrying if
they'll be around to honor that warranty, or who backs the warranty if
that shop is no longer in business when I need the work? You may have
this angle covered, but just wanted to toss it out there.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Todd H. wrote:
ther
those certs actually have such continuing ed requirements.

But that said, I too am curious/dubious about the cert value. But it
certainly wouldn't be a strike against someone. And frankly, if
someone's name is on the business and I'm getting a 10 year warranty
from them and they've been in business for 26 years, I'm worrying if
they'll be around to honor that warranty, or who backs the warranty if
that shop is no longer in business when I need the work? You may have
this angle covered, but just wanted to toss it out there.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

The said warranty is a manufacturer's (Rheem) warranty.

wrote:
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

Nate and Nadca equal Notagotdamnthing ................Certifications,
fancy trucks, fancy uniforms....fancy assed slick talking salesmen mean
nothing.....

Do your own research...talk to friends, family and coworkers....people
at church .... anyhow...talk to people who have had HVAC equipment
serviced and installed and find out who is reliable and honest and can
do you a good job.

Make sure they do a load calc on the house...make sure they get the
proper permits and inspections from the city or county.....

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.


Holy ****! Why are these prices so cheap? What corners are these hacks
cutting to quote prices so low?

wrote:

Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

The big places may need to charge higher since they must employ some
mediocre workers due to the volume they handle (like any large
company), and add in a rework fee to begin with to cover themselves.
The best and worse work is done by small family own businesses. The
simpler the furnace the less risk you will encounter now and in the
future regardless of the choice. Talking to few customers of the big
contractors is not of much help as the installation quality can vary.

writes:
wrote:

Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

The big places may need to charge higher since they must employ some
mediocre workers due to the volume they handle (like any large
company), and add in a rework fee to begin with to cover themselves.
The best and worse work is done by small family own businesses. The
simpler the furnace the less risk you will encounter now and in the
future regardless of the choice. Talking to few customers of the big
contractors is not of much help as the installation quality can
vary.

Okay I'll bite. How does a bad furnace installation typically evidence
iself?

The culture of "pay for good installation" is rich certainly, and
perhaps it's justified. On the other hand, is this beingf overblown a
bit? How much really can go wrong?

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

For the purpose of limiting the discussion, let's leave system sizing
out of the equation because a) assume we're replacing an existing
system that the owner would notice is either evenly/adequately heating
or cooling the house or not, backed up by b) assume the homeowner has
gotten several quotes and has reviewed them to see whether all bidders
have quoted consistent sizes c) the folks doing the estimates are
doing the sizing, and the actual installer is showing up with a given
size unit already in the truck.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

We have a older version of the Bryant 90 plus installed in 89' over the
years its been a decent furnace, there were several problems with it mostly
due to it being an early model of the super high efficiency furnaces. We
have replaced the heat exchange box from it corroding from moisture buildup
and bad drainage design, new model of box isn't supposed to do that. normal
wear and tear has seen the blower motor replaced after 6 years, the inducer
motor replaced after about 8 years, the venturies clogged up and replaced
after about 12 years, after the last service call in 2002 for the venturies
we started getting the repair company out for regular yearly service call in
the fall to clean and check the furnace, year before last we signed a
prearranged deal where they come out twice a year to check before each
season fall and spring for heat and a/c and overall checkup of the system.
We have a 591a model with air conditioner added at time of install. Couple
things you may want to consider is the guy that normally comes out and works
on our unit says that most furnaces are built by only a couple of companies,
forgot who he said bryant was made by but was supposed to be reputable brand
name you pay for the name when you go with courier, lennox, sears whatever.
At the time of our purchase they were just coming out with the ultra
efficient like 90% or higher think ours is like 85% efficient, but the super
efficient ones had nothing but problems. oh some things to consider
depending on type of house maybe adding a attic powered fan, we did reduced
a/c usage somewhat in summer or a whole house fan, have heard nice things
about those as well. If you do not get a/c with your unit you can later add
on a heat pump / a/c unit, splitting your heating source to gas / electric,
also heard good things about that set up depending on electical costs in
your area. heat pumps work to about 40 degrees i think.

Good luck on your choice.

Todd H. wrote:
writes:
wrote:

Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.
The big places may need to charge higher since they must employ some
mediocre workers due to the volume they handle (like any large
company), and add in a rework fee to begin with to cover themselves.
The best and worse work is done by small family own businesses. The
simpler the furnace the less risk you will encounter now and in the
future regardless of the choice. Talking to few customers of the big
contractors is not of much help as the installation quality can
vary.

Okay I'll bite. How does a bad furnace installation typically evidence
iself?


First sign is when your home becomes airborn and the sound of Sirens.


The culture of "pay for good installation" is rich certainly, and
perhaps it's justified. On the other hand, is this beingf overblown a
bit? How much really can go wrong?

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

For the purpose of limiting the discussion, let's leave system sizing
out of the equation because a) assume we're replacing an existing
system that the owner would notice is either evenly/adequately heating
or cooling the house or not, backed up by b) assume the homeowner has
gotten several quotes and has reviewed them to see whether all bidders
have quoted consistent sizes c) the folks doing the estimates are
doing the sizing, and the actual installer is showing up with a given
size unit already in the truck.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

On 26 Sep 2006 00:01:49 -0500, (Todd H.) wrote:

writes:
wrote:

Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

The big places may need to charge higher since they must employ some
mediocre workers due to the volume they handle (like any large
company), and add in a rework fee to begin with to cover themselves.
The best and worse work is done by small family own businesses. The
simpler the furnace the less risk you will encounter now and in the
future regardless of the choice. Talking to few customers of the big
contractors is not of much help as the installation quality can
vary.

Okay I'll bite. How does a bad furnace installation typically evidence
iself?

The culture of "pay for good installation" is rich certainly, and
perhaps it's justified. On the other hand, is this beingf overblown a
bit? How much really can go wrong?

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

For the purpose of limiting the discussion, let's leave system sizing
out of the equation because a) assume we're replacing an existing
system that the owner would notice is either evenly/adequately heating
or cooling the house or not, backed up by b) assume the homeowner has
gotten several quotes and has reviewed them to see whether all bidders
have quoted consistent sizes c) the folks doing the estimates are
doing the sizing, and the actual installer is showing up with a given
size unit already in the truck.

Best Regards,

Todd,
I guess you'd like fries with that?
Bubba

"Todd H." wrote in message ...
writes:
wrote:

Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

The big places may need to charge higher since they must employ some
mediocre workers due to the volume they handle (like any large
company), and add in a rework fee to begin with to cover themselves.
The best and worse work is done by small family own businesses. The
simpler the furnace the less risk you will encounter now and in the
future regardless of the choice. Talking to few customers of the big
contractors is not of much help as the installation quality can
vary.

Okay I'll bite. How does a bad furnace installation typically evidence
iself?

It won't show up until its too late.

The culture of "pay for good installation" is rich certainly, and
perhaps it's justified. On the other hand, is this beingf overblown a
bit? How much really can go wrong?

What can go wrong with a bad doctor, or a bad mechanic, or a bad cook,
or......

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

You want pictures??

For the purpose of limiting the discussion, let's leave system sizing
out of the equation because a) assume we're replacing an existing
system that the owner would notice is either evenly/adequately heating
or cooling the house or not, backed up by b) assume the homeowner has
gotten several quotes and has reviewed them to see whether all bidders
have quoted consistent sizes c) the folks doing the estimates are
doing the sizing, and the actual installer is showing up with a given
size unit already in the truck.

sizing?? whats to say that your furnace was sized correctly in the first
place??

"Noon-Air" writes:

What can go wrong with a bad doctor, or a bad mechanic, or a bad
cook,

Those are fairly self explanatory. None of these folks are installing
brand new HVAC systems though.

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

You want pictures??

Not necessary, but hey if ya got em.... I would like the cult
followers of the "good installation is more important than a brand
selected" religion to give some real examples of the actual perils of
a bad/rookie installation.

For the purpose of limiting the discussion, let's leave system
sizing out of the equation because a) assume we're replacing an
existing system that the owner would notice is either
evenly/adequately heating or cooling the house or not, backed up
by b) assume the homeowner has gotten several quotes and has
reviewed them to see whether all bidders have quoted consistent
sizes c) the folks doing the estimates are doing the sizing, and
the actual installer is showing up with a given size unit already
in the truck.

sizing?? whats to say that your furnace was sized correctly in the first
place??

Nothing. Which is why b) and c) are also assumed as backups.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

NATE and NADCA shows you the company stays on top of continuing
education. Rheem is better than Bryant long term. However for each
particular model the consumer reports suggestion was a good one.

Please understand this is a critical choice becuase you will have to
live with the heating system for a long time and it will either be
heaven or hell. The real trick is the evaluation of your needs based on
the square footage of your home and just how well its insulated. This
gives the contracor a formula to follow in order to make what they call
a heat load calculation. This essentially estimates the most heat you
will need during the coldest day of the heating season.

The goal is not to go to big with a unit since that will reduce the
actual efficiencies of the unit and you will be using more fuel with
the constant starts and stops. The goal is to have the unit on the
coldest day run for 45 minutes. This is like higheway mileage vs city
stop and go.

So bigger is not better. Its critical to get the right guy doing the
evaluation and the install. In order to check the BBB was a good choice
as is your state department of consumer protection.

Here's the inside scoop. You need to ask how long the techs have been
working for the company and the length of time they have been in the
business. This tells you 2 things. 1.) If the techs have been with the
company a long time it shows the company is strong and is run well. If
they have not it means constant turnover due to dissention in the
ranks. A minimum of 5 years. 2.) An experianced tech is better then a
newly minted one.

Check to see how they maintain their vehicals inside and out. If it's
messy on the inside beware,

Visit their office. If the inside of the office is in chaos RUN.

Essentially what I'm suggeting is see how they run and maintain their
business because thats what they will be doing with your heating
system.

I would also ask for referrals of past customers and I WOULD CALL them.
You can ask about installation, how clean they were, how long it took.
Any problems after or durring the install. ect..

For more details on how to choose a heating system whether it runs by
gas or oil you may want to visit http://www.heatingoilhelp.com Its a
site that focuses on oil heated systems but a lot of the information
also transfers to the gas side.

John
http://www.HeatingOilHelp.com
If you like my suggestions please visit the site and rate me if you
would. Thanks



wrote:
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

On 26 Sep 2006 06:53:41 -0700, "jbogs" wrote:

Here's the inside scoop. You need to ask how long the techs have been
working for the company and the length of time they have been in the
business. This tells you 2 things. 1.) If the techs have been with the
company a long time it shows the company is strong and is run well. If

Or it means the company sucks, rips people off, and the
ex-felon druggy 'tech' that's been there 20 years can't get a job
anywhere else, and is drinking buddies with the owner.

Check to see how they maintain their vehicals inside and out. If it's
messy on the inside beware,

Bull****. The worst techs sometimes keep the cleanest trucks.
Because they have nothing better to do, and that's the only thing they
can do right, is wash a car.

Visit their office. If the inside of the office is in chaos RUN.

If they're good, a busy office is likely.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Interestingly I am getting a furnace quote from home depot today. Gas
forced air, 90+. I am wondering about one speed vs 2 speed vs variable
speed furnaces?

Will get quote on air but probably wait till spring for install matter
of $

Having been thru credit card hell we DONT go there ever again

jbogs wrote:
The goal is not to go to big with a unit since that will reduce the
actual efficiencies of the unit and you will be using more fuel with
the constant starts and stops. The goal is to have the unit on the
coldest day run for 45 minutes. This is like higheway mileage vs city
stop and go.

So bigger is not better.

I don't think a car analogy is a good one. Imagine walking into a car
dealership and saying I want model X, with options Y and engine Z and
all of a sudden getting interrupted by the dealer saying, sorry, you
can't choose the engine, I will pick the engine for you that will
maximize your gas mileage and give you barely adequate performance
under your worse case load conditions (i.e., you will have to floor the
gas pedal to maintain 55 mph), I don't think many consumers would be
happy to hear that...

Al Moran writes:
On 26 Sep 2006 00:01:49 -0500, (Todd H.) wrote:


What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

For the purpose of limiting the discussion, let's leave system sizing
out of the equation because a) assume we're replacing an existing
system that the owner would notice is either evenly/adequately heating
or cooling the house or not, backed up by b) assume the homeowner has
gotten several quotes and has reviewed them to see whether all bidders
have quoted consistent sizes c) the folks doing the estimates are
doing the sizing, and the actual installer is showing up with a given
size unit already in the truck.

Best Regards,

On the AC side, in no particular order,

Leaving the orifice out of a flowrater, improperly charging the
system, setting the blower speed wrong, wiring the system wrong, using
the wrong amperage fuses, not installing a filter, leaving large ass
gaps in sheet metal transitions, leaving ducts completely
loose/unconnected, improperly adjusting a txv valve, no trap in
condensate lines,installing new system and not clearing old condensate
lines, tech specing correct tonnage and office gets wrong tonnage and
installer puts it in anyways ie, need four tons, office gets 2 1/2 ton
condenser 3 1/2 ton coil and 4 ton air handler...

On the heat side, in no particular order,

No "T" in gas line. no gasflex on gas line, manifold pressure
improperly set, not converting natural gas valve to propane when
required, too many elbows in flue pipe, flue pipe not installed
correctly, hooking VPS hoses up in wrong place on 90% furnaces, blower
motors not orientated correctly causing the supply to be the return
and the return to be the supply...

These are all things I have seen.

Those are helpful examples-Thanks Al.

Damn, some bone headed stuff in there for sure! I mean, how the hell
someone gets the motor in backwards and not notice the vents sucking
instead of blowing... woof. And not changing the the valving to the
gas in use... **** fire that would be bad news.


--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

As the owner of a company that has ALL service techs
NATE certified, and being NATE certified myself, I may
be a bit prejudiced.

I will, however, say that anyone who has passed the
NATE test has a proven record of technical competence.

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Cheap in my part of the country-


Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474

Hardly covers my costs-


Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299

Again, hardly covers my costs-

Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

Go to the NATE web site and read.

Todd H. wrote:

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

I don't know how this ranks, but I had to fix a friend's furnace when she bought
a couple of years ago:

The installer had put the filter holder on the side of the furnace opposite the
ducts. The filter was right up against the wall of the furnace. I had to
remove the filter track and re-install it on the side where the ducts were.
There were a bunch of little bits to tidy up in the process.

My guess was that it was installed by someone who'd never seen a furnace before.
Since the house was only a few years old, it was the original property
developer's team of "expert builders". The warranty had expired a couple of
years earlier, otherwise I would have made an amusing phone call on my friend's
behalf.

Mike

Michael Daly writes:

Todd H. wrote:

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

I don't know how this ranks, but I had to fix a friend's furnace when
she bought a couple of years ago:

The installer had put the filter holder on the side of the furnace
opposite the ducts. The filter was right up against the wall of the
furnace. I had to remove the filter track and re-install it on the
side where the ducts were. There were a bunch of little bits to tidy
up in the process.

LMAO...oh my. Damn, there really are stone dumbass people in every
profession.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

She-Hate-Me wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Cheap in my part of the country-


Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474

Hardly covers my costs-


Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299

Again, hardly covers my costs-


This I don't understand. These are a random sampling of 3 contractors,
two very well known with all the certifications. And these prices are
cheap??

is there a review website somwehere for new furnaces to compare them

On 26 Sep 2006 14:57:38 -0700, wrote:


She-Hate-Me wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Cheap in my part of the country-


Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474

Hardly covers my costs-


Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299

Again, hardly covers my costs-


This I don't understand. These are a random sampling of 3 contractors,
two very well known with all the certifications. And these prices are
cheap??

You dont understand there mr worldly. You live in one area of the
planet. We all live in another. You dont think we all charge the same,
do you? The cost of living is not the same in every area of the
planet. It varies greatly. So does hvac installation. If you want more
prices, get more estimates.
Bubba
Bubba

"Todd H." wrote in message ...
Michael Daly writes:

Todd H. wrote:

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

I don't know how this ranks, but I had to fix a friend's furnace when
she bought a couple of years ago:

The installer had put the filter holder on the side of the furnace
opposite the ducts. The filter was right up against the wall of the
furnace. I had to remove the filter track and re-install it on the
side where the ducts were. There were a bunch of little bits to tidy
up in the process.

LMAO...oh my. Damn, there really are stone dumbass people in every
profession.

As long as your writing a book on dumbasses in every profession, what is
*your* profession??

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On 26 Sep 2006 14:57:38 -0700, wrote:


She-Hate-Me wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Cheap in my part of the country-


Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474

Hardly covers my costs-


Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299

Again, hardly covers my costs-


This I don't understand. These are a random sampling of 3 contractors,
two very well known with all the certifications. And these prices are
cheap??

You dont understand there mr worldly. You live in one area of the
planet. We all live in another. You dont think we all charge the same,
do you? The cost of living is not the same in every area of the
planet. It varies greatly. So does hvac installation. If you want more
prices, get more estimates.
Bubba
Bubba

Even here in south Mississippi, those prices are at least $1000 low.....
That furnace *starts* at $4,000 before you add any extra bells and whistles

"Al Moran" wrote in message
news
On 26 Sep 2006 16:03:20 -0700, "
wrote:

is there a review website somwehere for new furnaces to compare them


yes

When people ask questions over at your HVAC newsgroup you chase them over to
here. Then you slink to this NG with your idiot comments. If you don't
have anything useful to add, go back to hvac, try not to pollute this NG
with what goes on at your home base.
MLD

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:52:04 GMT, "MLD" wrote:


"Al Moran" wrote in message
news
On 26 Sep 2006 16:03:20 -0700, "
wrote:

is there a review website somwehere for new furnaces to compare them


yes

When people ask questions over at your HVAC newsgroup you chase them over to
here. Then you slink to this NG with your idiot comments. If you don't
have anything useful to add, go back to hvac, try not to pollute this NG
with what goes on at your home base.
MLD


Shut the **** up, asshole.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Bubba wrote:
On 26 Sep 2006 14:57:38 -0700, wrote:

permits
$3299

Again, hardly covers my costs-


This I don't understand. These are a random sampling of 3 contractors,
two very well known with all the certifications. And these prices are
cheap??

You dont understand there mr worldly. You live in one area of the
planet. We all live in another. You dont think we all charge the same,
do you? The cost of living is not the same in every area of the
planet. It varies greatly. So does hvac installation. If you want more
prices, get more estimates.
Bubba
Bubba

I'm going on the assumption that anyone commenting on prices are in the
US. Now if they're in Canada, I could see how the prices seem low. I
did quote in dollars. But one guy said he's in Mississippi and his
cost would be at least 1000 more. I never thought of the city I live
in as having a low cost of living. As a matter of fact, I did some
quick checking and it's average or more than average. Labor here is
probably not cheap, relatively speaking (Michigan). I could be wrong.

wrote in message
...
"jbogs" wrote:

NATE and NADCA shows you the company stays on top of continuing
education. Rheem is better than Bryant long term. However for each

bull****. some manufacturers (Bryant) dictate that 50% of a dealers
techs are to be Nate certified. A tech can be Nate certified on oil
furnaces, and yet be clueless and non-certified on heat pumps.


www.hvacexcellence.com

"Oscar_Lives" wrote in message
news:cFmSg.71992$aJ.42380@attbi_s21...

wrote in message
...
"jbogs" wrote:

NATE and NADCA shows you the company stays on top of continuing
education. Rheem is better than Bryant long term. However for each

bull****. some manufacturers (Bryant) dictate that 50% of a dealers
techs are to be Nate certified. A tech can be Nate certified on oil
furnaces, and yet be clueless and non-certified on heat pumps.


www.hvacexcellence.com


er..

www.hvacexcellence.org

Use only a MASTER SPECIALIST for your HVAC service!

http://www.hvacexcellence.org/masterspcialist.htm







"jbogs" wrote in message
ups.com...
NATE and NADCA shows you the company stays on top of continuing
education. Rheem is better than Bryant long term. However for each
particular model the consumer reports suggestion was a good one.

Please understand this is a critical choice becuase you will have to
live with the heating system for a long time and it will either be
heaven or hell. The real trick is the evaluation of your needs based on
the square footage of your home and just how well its insulated. This
gives the contracor a formula to follow in order to make what they call
a heat load calculation. This essentially estimates the most heat you
will need during the coldest day of the heating season.

The goal is not to go to big with a unit since that will reduce the
actual efficiencies of the unit and you will be using more fuel with
the constant starts and stops. The goal is to have the unit on the
coldest day run for 45 minutes. This is like higheway mileage vs city
stop and go.

So bigger is not better. Its critical to get the right guy doing the
evaluation and the install. In order to check the BBB was a good choice
as is your state department of consumer protection.

Here's the inside scoop. You need to ask how long the techs have been
working for the company and the length of time they have been in the
business. This tells you 2 things. 1.) If the techs have been with the
company a long time it shows the company is strong and is run well. If
they have not it means constant turnover due to dissention in the
ranks. A minimum of 5 years. 2.) An experianced tech is better then a
newly minted one.

Check to see how they maintain their vehicals inside and out. If it's
messy on the inside beware,

Visit their office. If the inside of the office is in chaos RUN.

Essentially what I'm suggeting is see how they run and maintain their
business because thats what they will be doing with your heating
system.

I would also ask for referrals of past customers and I WOULD CALL them.
You can ask about installation, how clean they were, how long it took.
Any problems after or durring the install. ect..

For more details on how to choose a heating system whether it runs by
gas or oil you may want to visit http://www.heatingoilhelp.com Its a
site that focuses on oil heated systems but a lot of the information
also transfers to the gas side.

John
http://www.HeatingOilHelp.com
If you like my suggestions please visit the site and rate me if you
would. Thanks



wrote:
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

wrote:
I'm getting my furnace replaced and have some questions. How important
is it for the contractor to be NATE or NADCA certified? The more
expensive, big places really push these certifications. Or is this
more of a sales pitch than anything?

I have 3 choices:

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning (I need it)
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$4360

Bryant Plus 90t
5 year parts/2 year labor warranty
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning still to be added to price, probably $300-400 more
very well established company with all the fancy certifications and
guarantees
permits
$3474 (plus duct cleaning)

Rheem RGRK
10 year parts/labor
humidifier
media filter
duct cleaning
smaller company, in business for over 15 years, owner seems very
competent
permits
$3299


Is there anything good/bad about either furnace? Comments? I know the
bigger places might offer more piece of mind, but the price seems
pretty steep.

Hmmm,
None of aboe for me!

Oscar_Lives wrote:
wrote in message
...
"jbogs" wrote:

NATE and NADCA shows you the company stays on top of continuing
education. Rheem is better than Bryant long term. However for each
bull****. some manufacturers (Bryant) dictate that 50% of a dealers
techs are to be Nate certified. A tech can be Nate certified on oil
furnaces, and yet be clueless and non-certified on heat pumps.


www.hvacexcellence.com

**** off.... We have educated idiots with those certs that can't tie
their own shoes.. You must be one of them! The real cert is the guy that
goes for his masters license and builds a business that survives and
provides both employment and a service to the community.

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:18:13 -0500, "Noon-Air"
wrote:


"Todd H." wrote in message ...
Michael Daly writes:

Todd H. wrote:

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

I don't know how this ranks, but I had to fix a friend's furnace when
she bought a couple of years ago:

The installer had put the filter holder on the side of the furnace
opposite the ducts. The filter was right up against the wall of the
furnace. I had to remove the filter track and re-install it on the
side where the ducts were. There were a bunch of little bits to tidy
up in the process.

LMAO...oh my. Damn, there really are stone dumbass people in every
profession.

As long as your writing a book on dumbasses in every profession, what is
*your* profession??

C'mon Noon,
You gotta follow along. Dont you remember? Todd is that wonderful EE
we all know and love. Oh yeah, he is also a self proclaimed computer
expert. :-)
I think he also does brain surgery with that EE degree and solves
world problems in his spare time.
Bubba

anyone have a link for web reviews of furnaces?

"Bubba" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:18:13 -0500, "Noon-Air"
wrote:


"Todd H." wrote in message ...
Michael Daly writes:

Todd H. wrote:

What are the top 10 things that folks have actually seen (or heard
directly from someone who saw, no hypotheticals please) screwed up by
prior installers, and the potential consequences of those screwups?

I don't know how this ranks, but I had to fix a friend's furnace when
she bought a couple of years ago:

The installer had put the filter holder on the side of the furnace
opposite the ducts. The filter was right up against the wall of the
furnace. I had to remove the filter track and re-install it on the
side where the ducts were. There were a bunch of little bits to tidy
up in the process.

LMAO...oh my. Damn, there really are stone dumbass people in every
profession.

As long as your writing a book on dumbasses in every profession, what is
*your* profession??

C'mon Noon,
You gotta follow along. Dont you remember? Todd is that wonderful EE
we all know and love. Oh yeah, he is also a self proclaimed computer
expert. :-)
I think he also does brain surgery with that EE degree and solves
world problems in his spare time.
Bubba

Oh yeah.... I remember now, thats the guy that isn't actually even qualified
on anything sharper than a crayon or anything with moving parts.

"Don Ocean" wrote in message
...
Oscar_Lives wrote:
wrote in message
...
"jbogs" wrote:

NATE and NADCA shows you the company stays on top of continuing
education. Rheem is better than Bryant long term. However for each
bull****. some manufacturers (Bryant) dictate that 50% of a dealers
techs are to be Nate certified. A tech can be Nate certified on oil
furnaces, and yet be clueless and non-certified on heat pumps.


www.hvacexcellence.com

**** off.... We have educated idiots with those certs that can't tie their
own shoes.. You must be one of them! The real cert is the guy that goes
for his masters license and builds a business that survives and provides
both employment and a service to the community.

Ummm....Don, Pat *is* the real deal.....masters license and all.