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Paul
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????

I have a Carrier Weather maker SX - model number 58SXA100-JG Serial
Number - 4390A02724 - the only reason I'm including the serial number
is because someone told me that you may be able to tell the age of the
unit. I don't know the age of the unit. It is definitely before the
age of blinking leds to help diagnose problems. We had to replace the
AC unit when we moved in 3 years ago, I've replaced it with a Lennox
AC unit.

About 1 month ago the furnace started to work intermittently on a
weekend - of course. I called a local repair shop and they sent a guy
out who listened to my story and said it's probably your high temp
limit switch. We can replace it and do the green label program for
$245.00. I was cold, so I said okay. I was in the middle of
replacing the furnace filter when he arrived.

The furnace worked that day, but the next morning it stopped working
again. I called the shop and the same guy came over and said, you know
I didn't have the right temperature high limit switch, so I'm going to
replace the original one I put in with one that has a higher
temperature rating at no charge.

Well it worked for about 10 days, then stopped again. I called the
same firm and a new guy came and said the only thing he could find
wrong with it was that door to the blower fan housing was loose and
the safety switch didn't let the furnace go on. No charge for that
service call either.

The furnace worked for another couple of days and stopped again. At
this point I said to my wife, well I'm going to give these folks one
more chance. I called them and told them that I was getting pretty
frustrated.

So they sent a new person over. A very, very conscientious and
persistent fellow. He said right up front that he didn't like working
on this type of furnace, that it was particularly difficult to
diagnose. But he started in.

He checked the power both 115v and 24v to the furnance, gas valve
circuit board, high limit switch through the inducer circuitboard. He
found that the inducer circuitboard was bad. The board had that
"toasted" electronics smell. He said that he would have to replace
the inducer circuitboard - $365.00. I said okay. So then the inducer
motor came on, the pilot came on, the gas valve opened and the main
burner came on. But there was no power to the blower motor from the
main circuit board. The blower motor did work using a manual setting.
He said he'd like to try to replace the main circuit board - cost
$210. He replaced the main circuit board and still could not get the
blower motor to run. He called another tech and they both traced all
of the circuits using the schematics on the furnace and the
schematics that came with the new parts. They could not get the blower
motor to come on. So far total cost was $821, and the furnace was
still not working. So - I asked them to put back the old circuit
boards and not charge me the $365 and $210 for the new circuit boards.
- I'll deal with the $245 later.

My questions:

1) Should I call a "certified" carrier repair person, and get an
estimate for what it would take to fix. Are these furnaces really
that hard to diagnose? I know I need the inducer circuit board at
$365.00. Is it worth getting fixed or

2) Should I start getting quotes - including a manual j calculation
for a new furnace

3) If I do need a new furnace, are there any issues of mixing and
maxing AC and furnace brands? I'm assuming that there isn't.

3) $245 sounds excessive for a limit switch that is very inexpensive.
What's a reasonable rate for that.

4) If I did have to buy a new furnace, based on my description above,
would you consider going through that shop for a new furnace - I'd
probably get a credit of $245. I think I know the answer to this -
call the local HVAC supply house, and ask them who would they use.

Thanks - hope this has been entertaining for some of you.
  #2   Report Post  
Greg O
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????


"Paul" wrote in message
om...
My questions:


1) Should I call a "certified" carrier repair person, and get an
estimate for what it would take to fix. Are these furnaces really
that hard to diagnose? I know I need the inducer circuit board at
$365.00. Is it worth getting fixed or


You need to, at the very least, call someone that knows what they are doing!
The "techs" you have been calling don't!
I don't work on Carrier furnaces every day, but they are relatively simple
to work on.
Also $245 seems quite a bit high for a limit switch, unless you are counting
after hours labor in the price too.
Greg

  #3   Report Post  
Martik
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????

You just convinced me to keep my 26year old Lennox!

Try posting in alt.hvac


  #4   Report Post  
m Ransley
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????

Did you have a guy called Chris Young out , a Stoooormin Mormin. ?

  #5   Report Post  
HeatMan
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????


"Paul" wrote in message
om...
I have a Carrier Weather maker SX - model number 58SXA100-JG Serial
Number - 4390A02724 - the only reason I'm including the serial number
is because someone told me that you may be able to tell the age of the
unit. I don't know the age of the unit. It is definitely before the
age of blinking leds to help diagnose problems. We had to replace the
AC unit when we moved in 3 years ago, I've replaced it with a Lennox
AC unit.


I'm not too familiar with this model, but I can tell you that it was made
the 43rd week of 1990.

I'm not a big fan of Carrier, but I think they are better than Lennox......




  #6   Report Post  
vairxpert
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????

On 16 Mar 2004 16:22:26 -0800, (Paul) wrote:


My questions:

1) Should I call a "certified" carrier repair person, and get an
estimate for what it would take to fix. Are these furnaces really
that hard to diagnose? I know I need the inducer circuit board at
$365.00. Is it worth getting fixed or


Yes, get someone that knows what they are doing. $365 to install an
inducer board during normal business hours is INSANE.

There is a small wiring kit and instructions that come with the new
inducer boards. Did they install that inducer board as indicated
making the correct modifications? In the past I have received a few
of those inducer board kits without instructions or the mod. parts...I
don't know why Carrier lets crap like that happen. If those guys
don't normally work on Carriers they wouldn't have a clue that
modifications needed to be made. The board will plug in "as is" but
the furnace will not work. From what I recall very strange things
happen with the HSI and possibly the blower.


2) Should I start getting quotes - including a manual j calculation
for a new furnace


It's up to you. The furnace is 14 years old.


3) If I do need a new furnace, are there any issues of mixing and
maxing AC and furnace brands? I'm assuming that there isn't.


Things just need to be sized up right.


3) $245 sounds excessive for a limit switch that is very inexpensive.
What's a reasonable rate for that.


If local and during regular business hours, about $90.00. After hours
or weekends would be higher. Sunday would probably run you around
$150. If you were a regular customer that I liked I'd still probably
only charge you $90.00.

4) If I did have to buy a new furnace, based on my description above,
would you consider going through that shop for a new furnace - I'd
probably get a credit of $245. I think I know the answer to this -
call the local HVAC supply house, and ask them who would they use.


Sometimes intermittent problems can be a pain in the ass to diagnose
but you gave those guys way too many chances. There was also no
excuse for just swapping in a new circuit board when the blower did
not turn on. Sounds like you got some part changers. Since they
can't figure out whats wrong with the furnace they should put it back
as it was, admit defeat and give you all your money back.
Call out someone that knows what they're doing and you may get your
furnace back up and running for under $200.00.


Thanks - hope this has been entertaining for some of you.


Nothing funny about what you've been through.

George

  #7   Report Post  
Paul
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????

vairxpert wrote in message . ..
On 16 Mar 2004 16:22:26 -0800, (Paul) wrote:


My questions:

1) Should I call a "certified" carrier repair person, and get an
estimate for what it would take to fix. Are these furnaces really
that hard to diagnose? I know I need the inducer circuit board at
$365.00. Is it worth getting fixed or


Yes, get someone that knows what they are doing. $365 to install an
inducer board during normal business hours is INSANE.

There is a small wiring kit and instructions that come with the new
inducer boards. Did they install that inducer board as indicated
making the correct modifications? In the past I have received a few
of those inducer board kits without instructions or the mod. parts...I
don't know why Carrier lets crap like that happen. If those guys
don't normally work on Carriers they wouldn't have a clue that
modifications needed to be made. The board will plug in "as is" but
the furnace will not work. From what I recall very strange things
happen with the HSI and possibly the blower.


2) Should I start getting quotes - including a manual j calculation
for a new furnace


It's up to you. The furnace is 14 years old.


3) If I do need a new furnace, are there any issues of mixing and
maxing AC and furnace brands? I'm assuming that there isn't.


Things just need to be sized up right.


3) $245 sounds excessive for a limit switch that is very inexpensive.
What's a reasonable rate for that.


If local and during regular business hours, about $90.00. After hours
or weekends would be higher. Sunday would probably run you around
$150. If you were a regular customer that I liked I'd still probably
only charge you $90.00.

4) If I did have to buy a new furnace, based on my description above,
would you consider going through that shop for a new furnace - I'd
probably get a credit of $245. I think I know the answer to this -
call the local HVAC supply house, and ask them who would they use.


Sometimes intermittent problems can be a pain in the ass to diagnose
but you gave those guys way too many chances. There was also no
excuse for just swapping in a new circuit board when the blower did
not turn on. Sounds like you got some part changers. Since they
can't figure out whats wrong with the furnace they should put it back
as it was, admit defeat and give you all your money back.
Call out someone that knows what they're doing and you may get your
furnace back up and running for under $200.00.


Thanks - hope this has been entertaining for some of you.


Nothing funny about what you've been through.

George


Thanks everyone! I called Carrier, and they gave me a
referral for a local authorized carrier repair person. They will be
coming out tomorrow. I'll keep you posted. One thing that I neglected
to mention (I tried to be thorough!) was that the first person that
put in the limit switch also kicked up the blower speed. The carrier
person said that perhaps (won't know until he's here) the way the
wiring was changed to kick the fan speed up could be part of the
problem. So maybe it was a flakey inducer board, and then wiring
changes that's been giving me the problem. But I'll let the
professionals deal with that, and report back with the results.
  #8   Report Post  
Bill
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????

You can get into some really hairy problems with electronic problems of
this nature. Sometimes one bad circuit board will cause another to fail.
Then you replace the failed circuit board, but the problem is still there
and the circuit board fails again.

Some intermittent problems will happen only when the circuit boards are
warm or only when they are cold.

Then the intermittent problem may go away when the service guy shows up, so
he can't find what is causing the problem.

Sometimes there can be one wire which is broken or has a bad connection.
Just disconnecting a circuit board and reconnecting it can make it work
again. Then the wire fails again in a few days. So you can keep installing
new circuit boards thinking they are going bad, but the real problem is a
loose or bad wiring connection! These things can be a royal pain to track
down.

Even the best service technicians will have a difficult time solving these
problems and it may take several service calls before the problem is found.

Some service organizations have an "escalation" policy where more and more
knowledgeable technicians are sent out until the problem is resolved.
Sometimes someone from the factory will even show up for real nasty cases.
(I don't know if this is done in the HVAC industry or not.)

If you want to resolve the problem quickly, I would get a new furnace.
Otherwise go with the "certified" repair person idea and keep calling them
back until it is fixed....


"Paul" wrote in message
I have a Carrier Weather maker SX - model number 58SXA100-JG Serial
Number - 4390A02724 - the only reason I'm including the serial number
is because someone told me that you may be able to tell the age of the
unit. I don't know the age of the unit. It is definitely before the
age of blinking leds to help diagnose problems. We had to replace the
AC unit when we moved in 3 years ago, I've replaced it with a Lennox
AC unit.

About 1 month ago the furnace started to work intermittently on a
weekend - of course. I called a local repair shop and they sent a guy
out who listened to my story and said it's probably your high temp
limit switch. We can replace it and do the green label program for
$245.00. I was cold, so I said okay. I was in the middle of
replacing the furnace filter when he arrived.

The furnace worked that day, but the next morning it stopped working
again. I called the shop and the same guy came over and said, you know
I didn't have the right temperature high limit switch, so I'm going to
replace the original one I put in with one that has a higher
temperature rating at no charge.

Well it worked for about 10 days, then stopped again. I called the
same firm and a new guy came and said the only thing he could find
wrong with it was that door to the blower fan housing was loose and
the safety switch didn't let the furnace go on. No charge for that
service call either.

The furnace worked for another couple of days and stopped again. At
this point I said to my wife, well I'm going to give these folks one
more chance. I called them and told them that I was getting pretty
frustrated.

So they sent a new person over. A very, very conscientious and
persistent fellow. He said right up front that he didn't like working
on this type of furnace, that it was particularly difficult to
diagnose. But he started in.

He checked the power both 115v and 24v to the furnance, gas valve
circuit board, high limit switch through the inducer circuitboard. He
found that the inducer circuitboard was bad. The board had that
"toasted" electronics smell. He said that he would have to replace
the inducer circuitboard - $365.00. I said okay. So then the inducer
motor came on, the pilot came on, the gas valve opened and the main
burner came on. But there was no power to the blower motor from the
main circuit board. The blower motor did work using a manual setting.
He said he'd like to try to replace the main circuit board - cost
$210. He replaced the main circuit board and still could not get the
blower motor to run. He called another tech and they both traced all
of the circuits using the schematics on the furnace and the
schematics that came with the new parts. They could not get the blower
motor to come on. So far total cost was $821, and the furnace was
still not working. So - I asked them to put back the old circuit
boards and not charge me the $365 and $210 for the new circuit boards.
- I'll deal with the $245 later.

My questions:

1) Should I call a "certified" carrier repair person, and get an
estimate for what it would take to fix. Are these furnaces really
that hard to diagnose? I know I need the inducer circuit board at
$365.00. Is it worth getting fixed or

2) Should I start getting quotes - including a manual j calculation
for a new furnace

3) If I do need a new furnace, are there any issues of mixing and
maxing AC and furnace brands? I'm assuming that there isn't.

3) $245 sounds excessive for a limit switch that is very inexpensive.
What's a reasonable rate for that.

4) If I did have to buy a new furnace, based on my description above,
would you consider going through that shop for a new furnace - I'd
probably get a credit of $245. I think I know the answer to this -
call the local HVAC supply house, and ask them who would they use.

Thanks - hope this has been entertaining for some of you.



  #9   Report Post  
Bill
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????

"Paul" wrote in message
...One thing that I neglected
to mention (I tried to be thorough!) was that the first person that
put in the limit switch also kicked up the blower speed. The carrier
person said that perhaps (won't know until he's here) the way the
wiring was changed to kick the fan speed up could be part of the
problem...


That's another thing. You get several different people (some not very
experienced) out working on an electronic problem and one or more of them
causes new problems. Then you still have the original problem plus the new
problem(s)!


  #10   Report Post  
Markie
 
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Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????

Don't post in alt.hvac, they are just a bunch of fat ass hvac guys who
will tell you to just call another $90/hour fat ass hvac guy who will
just end up scratching his fat ass while saying 'duhhhhh' Where do
high school dropouts go? Into hvac.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:43:27 GMT, "Martik" wrote:

You just convinced me to keep my 26year old Lennox!

Try posting in alt.hvac




  #11   Report Post  
Paul
 
Posts: n/a
Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ???? - FIXED!!!

Thought I'd let folks know what happened. I called Carrier and they
immediately tranferred me to a local certified tech. He said the
particular furnace I have can be tricky at times, but this time it
seemed pretty straight forward. He came out and discovered I had two
bad boards - an inducer circuit board, and a blower circuit board.
Everything is working fine now. I had told the tech that the other
repair folks had tried replacing those boards ( I made them swap them
back when they couldn't get the furnace working). The carrier
certified tech said it looked like the original repair folks probably
had the wiring wrong and blew up the blower circuit board... The
carrier tech had to change the way the thermostat had been wired to
the blower circuit board. Another thing that I liked about this
particular company was that they itemized the bill - price of parts,
price of labor.... The first company just said this is what it will
cost(after he had done some diagnoses).

(Paul) wrote in message . com...
I have a Carrier Weather maker SX - model number 58SXA100-JG Serial
Number - 4390A02724 - the only reason I'm including the serial number
is because someone told me that you may be able to tell the age of the
unit. I don't know the age of the unit. It is definitely before the
age of blinking leds to help diagnose problems. We had to replace the
AC unit when we moved in 3 years ago, I've replaced it with a Lennox
AC unit.

About 1 month ago the furnace started to work intermittently on a
weekend - of course. I called a local repair shop and they sent a guy
out who listened to my story and said it's probably your high temp
limit switch. We can replace it and do the green label program for
$245.00. I was cold, so I said okay. I was in the middle of
replacing the furnace filter when he arrived.

The furnace worked that day, but the next morning it stopped working
again. I called the shop and the same guy came over and said, you know
I didn't have the right temperature high limit switch, so I'm going to
replace the original one I put in with one that has a higher
temperature rating at no charge.

Well it worked for about 10 days, then stopped again. I called the
same firm and a new guy came and said the only thing he could find
wrong with it was that door to the blower fan housing was loose and
the safety switch didn't let the furnace go on. No charge for that
service call either.

The furnace worked for another couple of days and stopped again. At
this point I said to my wife, well I'm going to give these folks one
more chance. I called them and told them that I was getting pretty
frustrated.

So they sent a new person over. A very, very conscientious and
persistent fellow. He said right up front that he didn't like working
on this type of furnace, that it was particularly difficult to
diagnose. But he started in.

He checked the power both 115v and 24v to the furnance, gas valve
circuit board, high limit switch through the inducer circuitboard. He
found that the inducer circuitboard was bad. The board had that
"toasted" electronics smell. He said that he would have to replace
the inducer circuitboard - $365.00. I said okay. So then the inducer
motor came on, the pilot came on, the gas valve opened and the main
burner came on. But there was no power to the blower motor from the
main circuit board. The blower motor did work using a manual setting.
He said he'd like to try to replace the main circuit board - cost
$210. He replaced the main circuit board and still could not get the
blower motor to run. He called another tech and they both traced all
of the circuits using the schematics on the furnace and the
schematics that came with the new parts. They could not get the blower
motor to come on. So far total cost was $821, and the furnace was
still not working. So - I asked them to put back the old circuit
boards and not charge me the $365 and $210 for the new circuit boards.
- I'll deal with the $245 later.

My questions:

1) Should I call a "certified" carrier repair person, and get an
estimate for what it would take to fix. Are these furnaces really
that hard to diagnose? I know I need the inducer circuit board at
$365.00. Is it worth getting fixed or

2) Should I start getting quotes - including a manual j calculation
for a new furnace

3) If I do need a new furnace, are there any issues of mixing and
maxing AC and furnace brands? I'm assuming that there isn't.

3) $245 sounds excessive for a limit switch that is very inexpensive.
What's a reasonable rate for that.

4) If I did have to buy a new furnace, based on my description above,
would you consider going through that shop for a new furnace - I'd
probably get a credit of $245. I think I know the answer to this -
call the local HVAC supply house, and ask them who would they use.

Thanks - hope this has been entertaining for some of you.

  #12   Report Post  
*CBHVAC*
 
Posts: n/a
Default Furnace problems - repair, replace or ????


"Markie" wrote in message
...
Don't post in alt.hvac, they are just a bunch of fat ass hvac guys who
will tell you to just call another $90/hour fat ass hvac guy who will
just end up scratching his fat ass while saying 'duhhhhh' Where do
high school dropouts go? Into hvac.



Another 7th grade drop-out named Markie heard from.

Tell me Markie....is there a thing called cold? Is cold a real thing?

Please....answer that one...and everyone else...let Markie Boy answer this
one....


On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:43:27 GMT, "Martik" wrote:

You just convinced me to keep my 26year old Lennox!

Try posting in alt.hvac




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