I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I notice
in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse off of me.
Is this normal with water softeners? Does this mean my wateris TOO
soft?

Should I use a different brand of soap, like Zest, that promotes no
soapy feeling?

Thanks!!

Eddie G

"Eddie G" wrote in message
ups.com...
I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I notice
in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse off of me.
Is this normal with water softeners? Does this mean my wateris TOO
soft?

Should I use a different brand of soap, like Zest, that promotes no
soapy feeling?

To start, let's get a technicality out of the way. There is no such thing
as "too soft". There is though, less hard. There are different degrees of
hardness, but it is either soft or some degree of hardness. Just like a
lamp can be dimmed or brightened, it can be "too off". It is either off or
on.

The soap is rinsing off. What you feel is your very clean skin, not coated
with minerals in the water. Some people like that feel, others don't. For
those that do not, they adjust the softener to do a less than good job or
mix in some hard water, defeating the purpose of the softener to start with.
Personally, I like the slick feel of clean skin, but if you have never had
it, it can be a little strange.

Ed,

How do you adjust the softener? My softener removes hardness by releasing
sodium and sequestering calcium. There's no control over this, it removes
calcium as long ass it has sodium, I think. Do you rig a bypass so some hard
water is mixed with the output of the softener?

Dave M.

David Martel wrote:
Ed,

How do you adjust the softener? My softener removes hardness by releasing
sodium and sequestering calcium. There's no control over this, it removes
calcium as long ass it has sodium, I think. Do you rig a bypass so some hard
water is mixed with the output of the softener?

Dave M.

My softener has a setting that is based on the hardness level.
Depending on how hard the water is, the higher I can set the softener.
It is a Waterboss if you are familiar with that brand.

Eddie

David Martel wrote:
Ed,

How do you adjust the softener? My softener removes hardness by releasing
sodium and sequestering calcium. There's no control over this, it removes
calcium as long ass it has sodium, I think. Do you rig a bypass so some hard
water is mixed with the output of the softener?

Dave M.

My softener has a setting that is based on the hardness level.
Depending on how hard the water is, the higher I can set the softener.
It is a Waterboss if you are familiar with that brand.

Eddie

Eddie G wrote:
I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I
notice in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse
off of me.

As another poster said, the soap is coming off. More or less.
However, you aren't feeling clean skin, you feel the sodium carbonate
in the water that was left after the ion exchange between NaCl (salt)
and CaCO3 (calcium carbonate). It is a base and bases generally feel
slick because of their reaction with the oils in your skin. With
strong bases, that reaction yields soap and glycerin, no idea what the
sodium carbonate is doing. Maybe the same thing.

Soft water that is not artificially softened doesn't give that slick,
slimy feeling.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Eddie G" wrote in message
ups.com...
I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I notice
in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse off of me.
Is this normal with water softeners? Does this mean my wateris TOO
soft?

Should I use a different brand of soap, like Zest, that promotes no
soapy feeling?

To start, let's get a technicality out of the way. There is no such thing
as "too soft". There is though, less hard. There are different degrees of
hardness, but it is either soft or some degree of hardness. Just like a
lamp can be dimmed or brightened, it can be "too off". It is either off or
on.

The soap is rinsing off. What you feel is your very clean skin, not coated
with minerals in the water. Some people like that feel, others don't. For
those that do not, they adjust the softener to do a less than good job or
mix in some hard water, defeating the purpose of the softener to start with.
Personally, I like the slick feel of clean skin, but if you have never had
it, it can be a little strange.

Go to http://www.lifesourcewater.com/comparison-chart.html and read
under the "water softener" column. It says the water is not good for
drinking, plants, or pets. Is this propaganda to sell you their own
system?

David Martel wrote:
Ed,

How do you adjust the softener? My softener removes hardness by releasing
sodium and sequestering calcium. There's no control over this, it removes
calcium as long ass it has sodium, I think. Do you rig a bypass so some hard
water is mixed with the output of the softener?

Dave M.

To my knowledge, there is no provision on any softener to mix hard
water with softened water. You would have to do so in the plumbing. I
do not suggest doing this.

Ion exchange does not sequester, it removes the positive charged ions
in the water with negative charged sites on the resin beads. As those
ions are removed, two much smaller and weaker positive charged sodium
or potassium ions are released into the water. The sodium is added at
the rate of 7.85 mg/l per grain of 'hardness' removed. A slice of white
bread usually has 120-160 mg of sodium, a glass of V8 has 560 mg.
Softeners remove more than just calcium and magnesium (hardness
minerals); such as ferrous iron, lead, copper, manganese etc.. Water is
either hard or soft and the hardness varies in all waters.

If a softener is sized correctly and set up correctly, the softened
water will be 0 gpg hard every time you use any volume of water (in
gallons per minute flow); otherwise the softener is not working
correctly and there's little sense in using/having it. The vast
majority of people like the feel and get used to it in about 3 weeks,
then they really hate the feel of hard water when they go somewhere
that has hard water; or if their softener breaks.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Gary Slusser wrote:
David Martel wrote:
Ed,

How do you adjust the softener? My softener removes hardness by releasing
sodium and sequestering calcium. There's no control over this, it removes
calcium as long ass it has sodium, I think. Do you rig a bypass so some hard
water is mixed with the output of the softener?

Dave M.

To my knowledge, there is no provision on any softener to mix hard
water with softened water. You would have to do so in the plumbing. I
do not suggest doing this.

Ion exchange does not sequester, it removes the positive charged ions
in the water with negative charged sites on the resin beads. As those
ions are removed, two much smaller and weaker positive charged sodium
or potassium ions are released into the water. The sodium is added at
the rate of 7.85 mg/l per grain of 'hardness' removed. A slice of white
bread usually has 120-160 mg of sodium, a glass of V8 has 560 mg.
Softeners remove more than just calcium and magnesium (hardness
minerals); such as ferrous iron, lead, copper, manganese etc.. Water is
either hard or soft and the hardness varies in all waters.

If a softener is sized correctly and set up correctly, the softened
water will be 0 gpg hard every time you use any volume of water (in
gallons per minute flow); otherwise the softener is not working
correctly and there's little sense in using/having it. The vast
majority of people like the feel and get used to it in about 3 weeks,
then they really hate the feel of hard water when they go somewhere
that has hard water; or if their softener breaks.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

What about this: http://www.triangularwave.com/f7.htm

Eddie G wrote:
I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I
notice in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse
off of me. Is this normal with water softeners? Does this mean my
wateris TOO soft?

Should I use a different brand of soap, like Zest, that promotes no
soapy feeling?

Thanks!!

Eddie G

That's normal. If the tub is remaining too slippery after a good rinsing,
you might want to check your water hardness and see what the recommended
setting is. Many places will test water for you, including where you bought
the softener.

IMO, "too soft" would be a tub surface that remains dangerously slippery, or
if you don't like the feeling, you could tone it down some. I'd start with
getting a test done if you haven't already, and go by that. It works well
usually, and the benefits of the softener are worthwhile.

Not all water inthe house should be softened, by the way. Usually it's just
the water to the dishwasher, hot water faucets, and the like, but not the
cold water or toilet unless you can afford the salt usage.

Contrary to what someone else said, softened water IS potable and won't hurt
to drink. It won't however taste very good and can make a bad pot of
coffeeg! I don't know if prolonged consumption would cause any problems
or not; the softener probably wouldn't be healthy long term, as in any other
substance taken into the body.

http://www.raindancewatersystems.com...r-catalog.html is just one
of many hits at Google for
water softeners +definition
Caution: Some of those top-ads are double-click trackers; stick to the
links below them unless you don't care.

HTH
Pop`

Eddie G wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Eddie G" wrote in message
ups.com...
I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I notice
in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse off of me.
Is this normal with water softeners? Does this mean my wateris TOO
soft?

Should I use a different brand of soap, like Zest, that promotes no
soapy feeling?

To start, let's get a technicality out of the way. There is no such thing
as "too soft". There is though, less hard. There are different degrees of
hardness, but it is either soft or some degree of hardness. Just like a
lamp can be dimmed or brightened, it can be "too off". It is either off or
on.

The soap is rinsing off. What you feel is your very clean skin, not coated
with minerals in the water. Some people like that feel, others don't. For
those that do not, they adjust the softener to do a less than good job or
mix in some hard water, defeating the purpose of the softener to start with.
Personally, I like the slick feel of clean skin, but if you have never had
it, it can be a little strange.

Go to http://www.lifesourcewater.com/comparison-chart.html and read
under the "water softener" column. It says the water is not good for
drinking, plants, or pets. Is this propaganda to sell you their own
system?

And if you believe what they say, you'll eventually be buying a bridge
to nowhere. The site bends a lot of well known truths and then they mix
in their idea of the truth.

Their main product to replace a softener is a very over priced filter
to remove chlorine and tastes while it contains a PWT
(physical/magnetic water treatment) anti-scale/descale device. It does
not remove hardness, iron, maganese etc., so it is not a softener or a
replacement or one.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Last year I moved into a house with a water softener. I got used to
the slick feeling fairly quickly and like the way it leaves my hair and
skin (soft). The thing I really like about softened water, though, is
the way it leaves my tub, shower, sinks, and laundry! I can use half
the laundry soap, yet the clothes are cleaner, and it's much easier to
clean the tub, glass shower doors, sinks, and fixtures.

I have an unsoftened water line to the kitchen sink. I drink that to
avoid the taste of softened water (although lots of people don't mind
it), and I fill my indoor watering can from that. I have an unsoftened
line to the back yard spigot, too; I'm not sure if it would hurt the
plants, but I don't see any reason to pay for soft water for them.

Jo Ann

Eddie G wrote:
I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I notice
in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse off of me.
Is this normal with water softeners? Does this mean my wateris TOO
soft?

Should I use a different brand of soap, like Zest, that promotes no
soapy feeling?

Thanks!!

Eddie G

"Pop`" wrote in message

Contrary to what someone else said, softened water IS potable and won't
hurt to drink. It won't however taste very good and can make a bad pot of
coffeeg! I

You won't get the buildup that ruins the coffee maker though. In most cases,
carbon filtered water is all that is needed for good drinking. Gets rid of
the chlorine and whatever else may lurk in your system.

In article om, "Eddie G" wrote:

Go to http://www.lifesourcewater.com/comparison-chart.html and read
under the "water softener" column. It says the water is not good for
drinking, plants, or pets. Is this propaganda to sell you their own
system?

Softened water *is* bad for plants. As Gary noted, water softeners operate by
replacing calcium and magnesium ions in hard water with either sodium or
potassium -- both of which cause soil to become hard by decreasing its
permeability to water. And that makes it hard for plants to get the water they
need. Use hard water on your plants.

People who are on sodium-restricted diets should avoid drinking softened water
also -- even if the softener uses potassium instead of sodium.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 09/02/06 10:48 am Eddie G wrote:

How do you adjust the softener? My softener removes hardness by releasing
sodium and sequestering calcium. There's no control over this, it removes
calcium as long ass it has sodium, I think. Do you rig a bypass so some hard
water is mixed with the output of the softener?

My softener has a setting that is based on the hardness level.
Depending on how hard the water is, the higher I can set the softener.
It is a Waterboss if you are familiar with that brand.

I have a WaterBoss. If I understood the manual correctly, the hardness
setting merely determines how many gallons of softened water you can use
before it regenerates. AIUI, as long as the thing is not overdue for
regeneration (i.e., as long as you did not tell it that your water is
softer than it really is), the water it supplies will be as soft as the
device is able to make it.

Perce

On 09/02/06 10:59 am Eddie G wrote:

Go to http://www.lifesourcewater.com/comparison-chart.html and read
under the "water softener" column. It says the water is not good for
drinking, plants, or pets. Is this propaganda to sell you their own
system?

When my brother-in-law installed a water softener, he installed a
reverse osmosis unit after it to remove the sodium. I simply took the
feeds for the irrigation system, the outside hose bibs, the
drinking-water spigot and the ice-maker from ahead of the water softener.

Perce

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Pop`" wrote in message

Contrary to what someone else said, softened water IS potable and won't
hurt to drink. It won't however taste very good and can make a bad pot of
coffeeg! I

You won't get the buildup that ruins the coffee maker though. In most cases,
carbon filtered water is all that is needed for good drinking. Gets rid of
the chlorine and whatever else may lurk in your system.

I still get water stains in the toilet...I thought the softener would
stop that.

Also, it is too late for me to change the water feeds. The softener is
right after my main water valve for the entire house, so I'm stuck with
it for drinkin, plants, and outside watering.

"Eddie G" wrote in message

I still get water stains in the toilet...I thought the softener would
stop that.

Drinking more beer may help. Could be something else that the softener is
not removing.



Also, it is too late for me to change the water feeds. The softener is
right after my main water valve for the entire house, so I'm stuck with
it for drinkin, plants, and outside watering.

Do you have room to put a T in the line and take off water for other uses?
Could be a PITA to separate the lines.

On 2 Sep 2006 06:50:01 -0700, "Eddie G" wrote:

I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I notice
in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse off of me.
Is this normal with water softeners? Does this mean my wateris TOO
soft?

Should I use a different brand of soap, like Zest, that promotes no
soapy feeling?

Thanks!!

Eddie G


Soft water has a slippery feel and opposed to hard water. Actually,
rinsing with soft water will wash away the soap better than hard
water. Soap brands make little difference.

dadiOH writes:

Soft water that is not artificially softened doesn't give that slick,
slimy feeling.

Try washing your hands with a jug of distilled water, which is utterly
soft.

How does that compare to your "softened" water?

On 2 Sep 2006 09:37:44 -0700, " wrote:


I have an unsoftened water line to the kitchen sink. I drink that to
avoid the taste of softened water (although lots of people don't mind
it), and I fill my indoor watering can from that. I have an unsoftened
line to the back yard spigot, too; I'm not sure if it would hurt the
plants, but I don't see any reason to pay for soft water for them.

Jo Ann


Good !
People should avoid drinking softened water.
It contains too much residual sodium.

The most economical way to plumb the softener,
is to have it feed your hot-water heater.
That way you use softened water for washing.


rj

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 14:39:53 GMT, "David Martel"
wrote:

Ed,

How do you adjust the softener? My softener removes hardness by releasing
sodium and sequestering calcium. There's no control over this, it removes
calcium as long ass it has sodium, I think. Do you rig a bypass so some hard
water is mixed with the output of the softener?

Dave M.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe setting the softener
to regenerate less frequently would make the water less soft. I
recently moved into a house that has a MacClean softener with a
maximum capacty of 30k grains. The family that lived in the house
previously had the softener regenerating every 4 days which is
probably overkill since I'm the only person living in the house. How
would I go about testing the water to determine the hardness and iron
content in order to determine the proper setting? There is a bypass
valve on the softener. To get an accurate result do I need to bypass
the softener and let the water run for a few minutes before I take a
sample? Or should I just drain some water from the holding tank. The
house uses a well pump/pressure tank setup.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Pop`" wrote in message

Contrary to what someone else said, softened water IS potable and
won't hurt to drink. It won't however taste very good and can make
a bad pot of coffeeg! I

You won't get the buildup that ruins the coffee maker though. In most
cases, carbon filtered water is all that is needed for good drinking.
Gets rid of the chlorine and whatever else may lurk in your system.

Good point.

Stains in the toilet may be due to rust (iron in the water). Your
water softener may not be able to remove enough iron to remedy this. I
have to use both a water softener and a whole-house iron filter to get
rid of the rust stains.

Jo Ann

Eddie G wrote:

I still get water stains in the toilet...I thought the softener would
stop that.

Also, it is too late for me to change the water feeds. The softener is
right after my main water valve for the entire house, so I'm stuck with
it for drinkin, plants, and outside watering.

Pop` wrote:

IMO, "too soft" would be a tub surface that remains dangerously slippery, or
if you don't like the feeling, you could tone it down some. I'd start with
getting a test done if you haven't already, and go by that. It works well
usually, and the benefits of the softener are worthwhile.

Not all water inthe house should be softened, by the way. Usually it's just
the water to the dishwasher, hot water faucets, and the like, but not the
cold water or toilet unless you can afford the salt usage.

Contrary to what someone else said, softened water IS potable and won't hurt
to drink. It won't however taste very good and can make a bad pot of
coffeeg! I don't know if prolonged consumption would cause any problems
or not; the softener probably wouldn't be healthy long term, as in any other
substance taken into the body.

http://www.raindancewatersystems.com...r-catalog.html is just one
of many hits at Google for
water softeners +definition
Caution: Some of those top-ads are double-click trackers; stick to the
links below them unless you don't care.

HTH
Pop`

For residential softeners, softened water is either hard or soft based
on 0 gpg (grains per gallon= soft) or more than 0 gpg (=hard). If the
water isn't 0 gpg, the softener isn't working correctly.

All the water in the building should be softened because otherwise all
fixtures using hard water can suffer damage and the water is less
usable etc.. Plus, as soon as hard water is added to softened water,
the water is hard and there is no benefit to having the softener. Most
clothes washing is done in warm and cold water today, so there would be
no benefit to laundry done in hard water.

The sodium added to water by ion exchange softening is 7.85 mg/l per
gpg of ion exchange. I.E. 25 gpg hard water = 7.85*25=196.25 mg per
rough a quart. A slice of white bread contains 120-160 mg per SLICE.
Check the labels on your food containers, and your water; bottles or
water company CCR (consumer confidence report). Anyone under a low
sodium or sodium restricted diet knows how to count their daily sodium
intake; the rest of us should not be concerned about the sodium in our
water, but we certainly get WAY too much sodium in our food, which is
not good for us.

http://www.awqinc.com/sodium_softening.html
Mayo Clinic says... http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317

And if you want a good cup of coffee, use RO water. There is very
little to no hardness in RO water.

Beware of raindance, they sell very high priced stuff that is no better
than what you can buy from anyone else.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

I have a WaterBoss. If I understood the manual correctly, the hardness
setting merely determines how many gallons of softened water you can use
before it regenerates. AIUI, as long as the thing is not overdue for
regeneration (i.e., as long as you did not tell it that your water is
softer than it really is), the water it supplies will be as soft as the
device is able to make it.

Perce

The hardness is one of the 3 parts needed to correctly set up a
softener. The other parts are the salt dose and how much water is used
daily.

This may help:
http://www.qualitywaterassociates.co...izingchart.htm also
use the calculator page link at the bottom to se how it all comes
together.

Gary
Qualty Water Associates

Eddie G wrote:
Gary Slusser wrote:

To my knowledge, there is no provision on any softener to mix hard
water with softened water. You would have to do so in the plumbing. I
do not suggest doing this.

Ion exchange does not sequester, it removes the positive charged ions
in the water with negative charged sites on the resin beads. As those
ions are removed, two much smaller and weaker positive charged sodium
or potassium ions are released into the water. The sodium is added at
the rate of 7.85 mg/l per grain of 'hardness' removed. A slice of white
bread usually has 120-160 mg of sodium, a glass of V8 has 560 mg.
Softeners remove more than just calcium and magnesium (hardness
minerals); such as ferrous iron, lead, copper, manganese etc.. Water is
either hard or soft and the hardness varies in all waters.

If a softener is sized correctly and set up correctly, the softened
water will be 0 gpg hard every time you use any volume of water (in
gallons per minute flow); otherwise the softener is not working
correctly and there's little sense in using/having it. The vast
majority of people like the feel and get used to it in about 3 weeks,
then they really hate the feel of hard water when they go somewhere
that has hard water; or if their softener breaks.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

What about this: http://www.triangularwave.com/f7.htm

They sell PWT (physical or magnetic water treatment) equipment and
compare it to water softeners. Their equipment does not remove anything
from water unless they include mechanical filtration like carbon etc.
In only very few commercial/industrial cases does PWT/MWT work, it
especially doesn't work in residential applications.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Eddie G wrote:

I still get water stains in the toilet...I thought the softener would
stop that.

It sounds as if your softener is not set up or sized correctly and it
is not removing all the hardness and/or iron in your water. Get raw
water and softened water tests done and see. Then set up the softener
for your daily water use at 60 gallons/person/day.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Jim Smith wrote:
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 14:39:53 GMT, "David Martel"
wrote:


Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe setting the softener
to regenerate less frequently would make the water less soft. I
recently moved into a house that has a MacClean softener with a
maximum capacty of 30k grains. The family that lived in the house
previously had the softener regenerating every 4 days which is
probably overkill since I'm the only person living in the house. How
would I go about testing the water to determine the hardness and iron
content in order to determine the proper setting? There is a bypass
valve on the softener. To get an accurate result do I need to bypass
the softener and let the water run for a few minutes before I take a
sample? Or should I just drain some water from the holding tank. The
house uses a well pump/pressure tank setup.

If you don't get the amount of hardness set correctly, the softener
can't work right; kinda like having a bad fuel gauge in your vehcile.
Sample at the well pump pressure tank. Then check this link:
http://www.qualitywaterassociates.co...izingchart.htm

Gary
Quality Water Associates

Richard J Kinch wrote:
dadiOH writes:

Soft water that is not artificially softened doesn't give that slick,
slimy feeling.

Try washing your hands with a jug of distilled water, which is utterly
soft.

How does that compare to your "softened" water?

Comparing essentially deionized water to softened only water is not a
fair comparison. The TDS and other things in softened only water
changes the 'feel' of the water. The same applies to RO water.

Gary
Quality Water Assciates

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in
:


"Eddie G" wrote in message
ups.com...
I installed a water softener several months ago and since then I
notice
in the shower that I feel that the soap doesn't fully rinse off of
me. Is this normal with water softeners? Does this mean my wateris
TOO soft?

Should I use a different brand of soap, like Zest, that promotes no
soapy feeling?

To start, let's get a technicality out of the way. There is no such
thing as "too soft". There is though, less hard. There are
different degrees of hardness, but it is either soft or some degree of
hardness. Just like a lamp can be dimmed or brightened, it can be
"too off". It is either off or on.

The soap is rinsing off. What you feel is your very clean skin, not
coated with minerals in the water. Some people like that feel, others
don't. For those that do not, they adjust the softener to do a less
than good job or mix in some hard water, defeating the purpose of the
softener to start with. Personally, I like the slick feel of clean
skin, but if you have never had it, it can be a little strange.




There is no such thing as "too soft". There is though, less hard.

I'll have to see if she buys into that one :-)

Gary Slusser writes:

Comparing essentially deionized water to softened only water is not a
fair comparison.

It would prove or disprove the factoid in question, that the slipperiness
is due to the *absence* of anything but skin and water.

Gary Slusser writes:

In only very few commercial/industrial cases does PWT/MWT work, it
especially doesn't work in residential applications.

In only works in fantasyland.

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:04:42 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Gary Slusser writes:

In only very few commercial/industrial cases does PWT/MWT work, it
especially doesn't work in residential applications.

In only works in fantasyland.


It works alright in preventing the formation of lime in the water
pipes and nozzles. Very strong and large permanent magnets align the
dissolved mineral crystals to retard mineral deposition. The magnets
cannot be sized down economically for a household system. It does not
soften water as the minerals are still there. The London Imperial
College lab tests were published in a New Scientist article more than
20 years ago. The tests were commissioned by the Swiss manufacturer
of the magnetic system who couldn't give a scientifically acceptable
explanation for their product.

In article , Richard J Kinch wrote:
Gary Slusser writes:

Comparing essentially deionized water to softened only water is not a
fair comparison.

It would prove or disprove the factoid in question, that the slipperiness
is due to the *absence* of anything but skin and water.

The slipperiness of water softened by ion exchange is due to the presence of
sodium ions. Rainwater doesn't feel slippery. Neither does steam-distilled
water.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , wrote:
On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 01:04:42 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Gary Slusser writes:

In only very few commercial/industrial cases does PWT/MWT work, it
especially doesn't work in residential applications.

In only works in fantasyland.


It works alright in preventing the formation of lime in the water
pipes and nozzles. Very strong and large permanent magnets align the
dissolved mineral crystals to retard mineral deposition. The magnets
cannot be sized down economically for a household system. It does not
soften water as the minerals are still there. The London Imperial
College lab tests were published in a New Scientist article more than
20 years ago. The tests were commissioned by the Swiss manufacturer
of the magnetic system who couldn't give a scientifically acceptable
explanation for their product.

Now there's a shock -- the only "evidence" supporting the supposed
effectiveness of this system came from a study commissioned by its
manufacturer. Imagine my surprise.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 09/04/06 09:41 am Doug Miller wrote:

Comparing essentially deionized water to softened only water is not a
fair comparison.

It would prove or disprove the factoid in question, that the slipperiness
is due to the *absence* of anything but skin and water.

The slipperiness of water softened by ion exchange is due to the presence of
sodium ions. Rainwater doesn't feel slippery. Neither does steam-distilled
water.

I remember rainwater from the old farm back in the UK when I was a child
before we had a piped water supply. It *did* feel slippery. And I just
tried washing my hands with distilled water; it *did* leave them feeling
slippery.

Perce

Oh pshaw, on Sat 02 Sep 2006 08:14:29a, Gary Slusser meant to say...


David Martel wrote:
Ed,

How do you adjust the softener? My softener removes hardness by
releasing
sodium and sequestering calcium. There's no control over this, it
removes calcium as long ass it has sodium, I think. Do you rig a bypass
so some hard water is mixed with the output of the softener?

Dave M.

To my knowledge, there is no provision on any softener to mix hard
water with softened water. You would have to do so in the plumbing. I
do not suggest doing this.

Ion exchange does not sequester, it removes the positive charged ions
in the water with negative charged sites on the resin beads. As those
ions are removed, two much smaller and weaker positive charged sodium
or potassium ions are released into the water. The sodium is added at
the rate of 7.85 mg/l per grain of 'hardness' removed. A slice of white
bread usually has 120-160 mg of sodium, a glass of V8 has 560 mg.
Softeners remove more than just calcium and magnesium (hardness
minerals); such as ferrous iron, lead, copper, manganese etc.. Water is
either hard or soft and the hardness varies in all waters.

If a softener is sized correctly and set up correctly, the softened
water will be 0 gpg hard every time you use any volume of water (in
gallons per minute flow); otherwise the softener is not working
correctly and there's little sense in using/having it. The vast
majority of people like the feel and get used to it in about 3 weeks,
then they really hate the feel of hard water when they go somewhere
that has hard water; or if their softener breaks.

Gary
Quality Water Associates


I hate the feel of softened water. I had a softener installed for 7 years
and, while I got used to the feel, I never liked it. I appreciate the
advantages of using soft water for appliances like the clothes washer and
dishwasher. If I were able to do so, I would install a softener for those
purposes only. As it is, I cannot easily alter my plumbing.

--
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

Useless Invention: Double-sided playing cards.

In article ,
Wayne Boatwright wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com wrote:

I hate the feel of softened water. I had a softener installed for 7 years
and, while I got used to the feel, I never liked it. I appreciate the
advantages of using soft water for appliances like the clothes washer and
dishwasher. If I were able to do so, I would install a softener for those
purposes only. As it is, I cannot easily alter my plumbing.


Maybe it'll help to get some store-bought water, take a a cup-full,
and pour it into your hair, rub it around, and then over your body.

Might get that slippery feel out.

I hope it works ...

David