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  #1   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
about late November through February. They're all in proper
containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for
the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway
for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage,
no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting
around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I know
I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden gate
into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a
business.
Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Maybe your local Fire Marshal could provide suggestions, as could a
local contractor specializing in storage for institutions that might
store a few hundred gallons.

It seems desirable to isolate the fuel from heat of fire (underground)
and with safe venting to prevent pressure buildup. Then a hand-pump
would transfer to containers. I've seen such a package installed to
Fire Marshal's satisfaction in CT. The tank had to be coated to his
satisfaction, inside & out, and he wanted to see about a foot of
round-sand next to the tank- even had it partly dug out after the fact
to be certain.

With kerosene, he had no problem with storage in barrels above ground.
Looks like diesel it is, on first-cost basis alone, for many.

J

  #3   Report Post  
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Toller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Pop" wrote in message
news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.


Thats not so bad; I was 10 days from the 91 ice storm and 6 days from the 98
wind storm. But we rarely have a short outage.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
about late November through February. They're all in proper
containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for
the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway
for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage,
no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting
around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I know
I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden gate
into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

That seems quite reasonable; I just have 3-2 gallon plastic cans sitting on
a shelf in my garage.
A real inflamable cabinet would be a good upgrade (for either of us). I see
them at auctions for reasonable prices every now and then but can't justify
the room they take up.

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a
business.


It is easy enough to register as a business; if that would be enough. Get a
tax certificate and all that. (means you have to file quarterly, even if
you don't actually do any business...) You could be Pop's snow plowing, and
then just never get around to doing it.

Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop




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Posted to alt.home.repair
Doug Kanter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Pop" wrote in message
news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
about late November through February. They're all in proper
containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for
the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway
for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage,
no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting
around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I know
I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden gate
into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a
business.
Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop



What's the question? Are you concerned about the durability of the
containers? If that's the issue, head over to marina in A-Bay or Lake George
or whatever's nearest, and replace the containers with the type made for
boats. They tend to be much more rugged. Add a little gas preservative to
each container. And, even with the preservative, rotate your inventory. Pour
one container into the car every month and refill the container. Then, move
on to the next container.


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Back in the 70s during the energy crisis, I had a locked 165 gal. tank near
the house. There was a lot of loss from evaporation, so I got another tank,
filled them both 3/4 full and put 2" iron pipe plugs in them. They made
noise when they expanded and contracted, but by leaving enough room, there
was no danger. If a local company won't deliver a tank and fill it, then buy
your own tank and bring the gas home. I took a Texaco fuel and motor oil
once, and the instructor said that if a tank is clean and sealed, gas will
remain good for years. The other option would be to get a diesel generator.

"Pop" wrote in message
news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
about late November through February. They're all in proper
containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for
the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway
for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage,
no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting
around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I know
I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden gate
into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a
business.
Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop






  #6   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Actually, you don't have to file quarterly, and the IRS will not normally do
anything about it. If you file an honest return and pay on time, that's all
they care about. For 15 years we would just send the money in with our
return. We finally decided that it was easier to come up with the money
quarterly, so now we do it that way.

"Toller" wrote in message
news

"Pop" wrote in message
news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.


Thats not so bad; I was 10 days from the 91 ice storm and 6 days from the
98
wind storm. But we rarely have a short outage.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
about late November through February. They're all in proper
containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for
the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway
for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage,
no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting
around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I know
I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden gate
into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

That seems quite reasonable; I just have 3-2 gallon plastic cans sitting

on
a shelf in my garage.
A real inflamable cabinet would be a good upgrade (for either of us). I

see
them at auctions for reasonable prices every now and then but can't

justify
the room they take up.

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a
business.


It is easy enough to register as a business; if that would be enough. Get

a
tax certificate and all that. (means you have to file quarterly, even if
you don't actually do any business...) You could be Pop's snow plowing,

and
then just never get around to doing it.

Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop






  #7   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Bob" wrote in message
...
Actually, you don't have to file quarterly, and the IRS will not normally
do
anything about it. If you file an honest return and pay on time, that's
all
they care about. For 15 years we would just send the money in with our
return. We finally decided that it was easier to come up with the money
quarterly, so now we do it that way.


I had to file quarterly for the state for the taxes when I lived in PA. If
no activity, it was a 15 second report.


  #8   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Doug Kanter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:6lMDf.5365$J81.307@trndny01...

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Actually, you don't have to file quarterly, and the IRS will not normally
do
anything about it. If you file an honest return and pay on time, that's
all
they care about. For 15 years we would just send the money in with our
return. We finally decided that it was easier to come up with the money
quarterly, so now we do it that way.


I had to file quarterly for the state for the taxes when I lived in PA.
If no activity, it was a 15 second report.


Same thing in NY.


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Posted to alt.home.repair
Toller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Bob" wrote in message
...
Actually, you don't have to file quarterly, and the IRS will not normally
do
anything about it. If you file an honest return and pay on time, that's
all
they care about. For 15 years we would just send the money in with our
return. We finally decided that it was easier to come up with the money
quarterly, so now we do it that way.

Not the IRS; NYS sales tax.


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Jim Yanik
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Pop" wrote in message
news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.




Convert the generator to run on natural gas or propane;you can use the gas
lines that run your home heating,or the kitchen stove/oven.
Even when electric power is lost,you still get gas.
A fair sized propane tank will run a generator a long time,probably longer
than it should run continuously.
And it's safer because you do not have to refuel a hot generator.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Years ago, I asked the PA Dept. of Revenue about sales tax. They told me I
was not required to collect sales tax on anything I install, as long as I
pay sales tax on an item when I buy it.

"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Actually, you don't have to file quarterly, and the IRS will not

normally
do
anything about it. If you file an honest return and pay on time, that's
all
they care about. For 15 years we would just send the money in with our
return. We finally decided that it was easier to come up with the money
quarterly, so now we do it that way.

Not the IRS; NYS sales tax.




  #12   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

I have a Winco multi-fuel generator that operates on gasoline, propane, or
natural gas. It uses 9/10 gallon gasoline per hour or 1.4 gallons propane
per hour. I never tried it on natural gas, but Winco said it will use about
100 cubic ft. per hour, but will only deliver about 80% output. It has a
really unique carburetor, but at least it gives the option of still using
gasoline.



"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Pop" wrote in message
news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.




Convert the generator to run on natural gas or propane;you can use the gas
lines that run your home heating,or the kitchen stove/oven.
Even when electric power is lost,you still get gas.
A fair sized propane tank will run a generator a long time,probably longer
than it should run continuously.
And it's safer because you do not have to refuel a hot generator.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net



  #13   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Pop wrote:
Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
about late November through February. They're all in proper
containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for
the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway
for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage,
no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting
around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I know
I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden gate
into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a
business.
Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop



Do it like most small time farmers/ranchers. Fill
a 55 gallon drum, that you can roll or raise to a
convenient height (drum horizontal). You can even
build a cage with an inner sliding part that
you raise a foot at a time with a hydraulic car jack.

The drum would have a locking tap on the downside
opening with the other opening up. Whenever you
want gas you unscrew the top opening to allow air
to enter, then fill whatever you want from the
tap. Add a hose and get the barrel high enough
and you can fill the vehicles. Probably want to
use up all the extra gas and empty the empty the
barrel once a year.

All those proper containers are a hazard. Much
better and safer to store a large amount
altogether in an air tight container.
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Bob wrote:
Back in the 70s during the energy crisis, I had a locked 165 gal. tank near
the house. There was a lot of loss from evaporation, so I got another tank,
filled them both 3/4 full and put 2" iron pipe plugs in them. They made
noise when they expanded and contracted, but by leaving enough room, there
was no danger. If a local company won't deliver a tank and fill it, then buy
your own tank and bring the gas home. I took a Texaco fuel and motor oil
once, and the instructor said that if a tank is clean and sealed, gas will
remain good for years. The other option would be to get a diesel generator.

"Pop" wrote in message
news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...


Right, but the simple solution based on the amount
of gas he has is to use a 55 gallon barrel. And
you are right, you want the tank sealed, not open
and giving off fumes as some suggest. If a 55 g
drum can't take the pressure changes from weather
changes (not in the sun) then it is a poor drum
indeed.
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
MC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

George E. Cawthon wrote:
Pop wrote:

Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional multi-day
power outages with frequent outages of several hours in the winter.
Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5 days without power.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning about
late November through February. They're all in proper containers,
stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for the purpose,
painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway for emergency
vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage, no smoking, all
that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting around in separate
containers, some of the plastic, which I know I should get rid of.
That locker is about ten feet from the garage and near a storage shed
behind them, with a wooden gate into the area. Theft is not a problem
- very rural, motion lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a business.
Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get the
gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump fuel oil
from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop


Do it like most small time farmers/ranchers. Fill a 55 gallon drum,
that you can roll or raise to a convenient height (drum horizontal).
You can even build a cage with an inner sliding part that you raise a
foot at a time with a hydraulic car jack.

The drum would have a locking tap on the downside opening with the other
opening up. Whenever you want gas you unscrew the top opening to allow
air to enter, then fill whatever you want from the tap. Add a hose
and get the barrel high enough and you can fill the vehicles. Probably
want to use up all the extra gas and empty the empty the barrel once a
year.

All those proper containers are a hazard. Much better and safer to
store a large amount altogether in an air tight container.

First I would consider moving to the natural gas/propane approach as
fuel, some exiting engines could be fitted with the type of carburetor
needed.

If that is not an option then next I would go with diesel as can be
stored much safer.

However weather diesel or Gas, I would go with a more durable and larger
container for keeping that amount on hand.

On our farm we used to have permanent tanks, We had to replace the tanks
once and the supplier said would need to now have EPA approved
installation, etc. We did not want to go through the expense of that.
The supplier told us that anything not a permanent fixture would not
necessarily need to be approved by the EPA. Many construction companies
use portable tanks to take to job sites. So we got a small heavy duty
trailer and mounted a small 100 Gal tank and then pulled down to the
supplier to have filled instead of them coming out to us. Worked out
better since when on one side of the property for a while we could take
the tank with us.

May be an option, would still depend on laws in your area, May can get a
55 gal drum that would be adequate and strap down on a suitable utility
trailer if you have means to tow somewhere to fill (Even the local gas
station)



  #16   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"George E. Cawthon" wrote in
message
...
: Pop wrote:
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?
:
: I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
: multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several
hours in
: the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of
'98 - 5
: days without power.
:
: Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
: I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
: about late November through February. They're all in proper
: containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made
for
: the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the
road/driveway
: for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline
storage,
: no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas
sitting
: around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I
know
: I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
: garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden
gate
: into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
: lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..
:
: I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be
a
: business.
: Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to
get
: the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.
:
: My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
: fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?
:
: TIA,
:
: Pop
:
:
:
: Do it like most small time farmers/ranchers. Fill
: a 55 gallon drum, that you can roll or raise to a
: convenient height (drum horizontal). You can even
: build a cage with an inner sliding part that
: you raise a foot at a time with a hydraulic car jack.
:
: The drum would have a locking tap on the downside
: opening with the other opening up. Whenever you
: want gas you unscrew the top opening to allow air
: to enter, then fill whatever you want from the
: tap. Add a hose and get the barrel high enough
: and you can fill the vehicles. Probably want to
: use up all the extra gas and empty the empty the
: barrel once a year.
:
: All those proper containers are a hazard. Much
: better and safer to store a large amount
: altogether in an air tight container.

Hmm, I like that actually, if it's allowable here; think I'll
check that out further.

Couple questions:
Why do you say the several containers are a hazard? I don't
want several containers, but curious why they're more hazardous
than a drum?
How do you control moisture inside the tank? Wouldn't it have
to be kep mostly full year 'round to keep moisture from becoming
a problem?
Still thinking about moistu How would one know the drum
they are getting wasn't going to rust inside? Outside you paint
& care for, but regular 55 gal drums are relatively thin metal,
are they not?
If it were you, where would you source the drum from? I have
a few in the cellar that i keep drinking water in, that stay fine
inside, but ... dunno what would happen if they contained
gasoline.

I don't see any problem with gas getting stale; as long as it's
kept in closed containers it'll last 6 months easy, and right now
in the spring I just start using up the winter gas in the lawn
tractor, weed eater, etc etc etc.. So that part doesn't worry me
too much; it's fairly easy to keep a turn-over going. Especially
if I could easily dump it into the car too.

Hmm, I'll bet a propane tank would work too, wouldn't it? Maybe
even two of them. Certainly no problem with tank
expansion/collapse in the changeing temps and all that - and they
could even be lightly pressurized with moisture-free (well,
filtered anyway) compressed air, to act as a pump of sorts. I
keep envisioning a drum collapsing after a heat wave followed by
a few cold nights g. Well, that pressurizing might not be
practical, but the rest bears some thinking about.

Thanks - helps to discuss things with others. Sort of like
brainstorming; brings out new thoughts.

Pop


  #17   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
: "Doug Kanter" wrote in
: :
:
:
: "Pop" wrote in message
: news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your
generators?
:
: I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
: multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several
hours in
: the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of
'98 - 5
: days without power.
:
:
:
:
: Convert the generator to run on natural gas or propane;you can
use the gas
: lines that run your home heating,or the kitchen stove/oven.
: Even when electric power is lost,you still get gas.
: A fair sized propane tank will run a generator a long
time,probably longer
: than it should run continuously.
: And it's safer because you do not have to refuel a hot
generator.

That's a good thought, but I know zero about propane conversions.
Is it a diy if one has any experience at all? How would I go
about finding out more about converting? Any thoughts? Other
than Google, I mean; I'll be going there shortly but no idea yet
what to search for.Yet.

Any idea of the pros/cons? Especially starting in very cold
weather? The genset isn't permanently mounted; it's a roll-out
to the site when needed kind of thing. Hit the start button,
plug it in, and flip the transfer switch; I'd want to keep that
ease of use.

Thanks for the thoughts; appreciations.

Pop




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Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Toller" wrote in message
news :
: "Pop" wrote in message
: news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?
:
: I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
: multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several
hours in
: the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of
'98 - 5
: days without power.
:
: Thats not so bad; I was 10 days from the 91 ice storm and 6
days from the 98
: wind storm. But we rarely have a short outage.
:
: Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
: I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
: about late November through February. They're all in proper
: containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made
for
: the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the
road/driveway
: for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline
storage,
: no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas
sitting
: around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I
know
: I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
: garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden
gate
: into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
: lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..
:
: That seems quite reasonable; I just have 3-2 gallon plastic
cans sitting on
: a shelf in my garage.
: A real inflamable cabinet would be a good upgrade (for either
of us). I see
: them at auctions for reasonable prices every now and then but
can't justify
: the room they take up.
:
: I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be
a
: business.
:
: It is easy enough to register as a business; if that would be
enough. Get a
: tax certificate and all that. (means you have to file
quarterly, even if
: you don't actually do any business...) You could be Pop's snow
plowing, and
: then just never get around to doing it.

Actually, that is a problem for me. I am disabled and starting a
business, even just on paper as a sole proprietor, would look
pretty bad to the "powers that be" (read as gummint critters).
They'd be all over me for SGA, taxes and all kinds of things,
looking to take it away from me. rant I committed murder for
them, and they'd "murder" me just as fast as we did the gooks;
there's nothing fair about our government and they're only there
when you don't need them.
/rant

Pop


  #19   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

wrote in message
ups.com...
: Maybe your local Fire Marshal could provide suggestions, as
could a
: local contractor specializing in storage for institutions that
might
: store a few hundred gallons.
:
: It seems desirable to isolate the fuel from heat of fire
(underground)
: and with safe venting to prevent pressure buildup. Then a
hand-pump
: would transfer to containers. I've seen such a package
installed to
: Fire Marshal's satisfaction in CT. The tank had to be coated to
his
: satisfaction, inside & out, and he wanted to see about a foot
of
: round-sand next to the tank- even had it partly dug out after
the fact
: to be certain.
:
: With kerosene, he had no problem with storage in barrels above
ground.
: Looks like diesel it is, on first-cost basis alone, for many.

Makes lots of sense; I do plan on talking to the fire dept again.
It's been a couple years and at that time I just wanted to be
sure they'd be OK with my having the gasoline around in that
quantity. Oh, and I already have the trench/sand/gravel moat,
BTW. It'll drain out into an empty field if fire ever does open
any of those containers. It was easy to do at the time, so ...
..


Pop


  #20   Report Post  
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Toller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Bob" wrote in message
...
Years ago, I asked the PA Dept. of Revenue about sales tax. They told me I
was not required to collect sales tax on anything I install, as long as I
pay sales tax on an item when I buy it.

I hope NYS agrees with you, because I have done that rather than mess with
tax exempt certificates when buying supplies. My theory is that the
customer is buying the supplies and reimbursing me for them; I am only
selling my labor and profit.




  #21   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Jim Yanik
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

"Bob" wrote in
:

I have a Winco multi-fuel generator that operates on gasoline,
propane, or natural gas. It uses 9/10 gallon gasoline per hour or 1.4
gallons propane per hour. I never tried it on natural gas, but Winco
said it will use about 100 cubic ft. per hour, but will only deliver
about 80% output. It has a really unique carburetor, but at least it
gives the option of still using gasoline.



"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Pop" wrote in message
news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.




Convert the generator to run on natural gas or propane;you can use
the gas lines that run your home heating,or the kitchen stove/oven.
Even when electric power is lost,you still get gas.
A fair sized propane tank will run a generator a long time,probably
longer than it should run continuously.
And it's safer because you do not have to refuel a hot generator.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net




Is the propane or NG less expensive than gasoline? IIRC,NG is not
expensive.
It's cleaner,better for your generator engine,and with a underground gas
line,nearly uninterruptable supply,and also no storage or handling
problems.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Pop wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in
message
...
: Pop wrote:
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?
:
: I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
: multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several
hours in
: the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of
'98 - 5
: days without power.
:
: Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
: I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
: about late November through February. They're all in proper
: containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made
for
: the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the
road/driveway
: for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline
storage,
: no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas
sitting
: around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I
know
: I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
: garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden
gate
: into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
: lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..
:
: I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be
a
: business.
: Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to
get
: the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.
:
: My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
: fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?
:
: TIA,
:
: Pop
:
:
:
: Do it like most small time farmers/ranchers. Fill
: a 55 gallon drum, that you can roll or raise to a
: convenient height (drum horizontal). You can even
: build a cage with an inner sliding part that
: you raise a foot at a time with a hydraulic car jack.
:
: The drum would have a locking tap on the downside
: opening with the other opening up. Whenever you
: want gas you unscrew the top opening to allow air
: to enter, then fill whatever you want from the
: tap. Add a hose and get the barrel high enough
: and you can fill the vehicles. Probably want to
: use up all the extra gas and empty the empty the
: barrel once a year.
:
: All those proper containers are a hazard. Much
: better and safer to store a large amount
: altogether in an air tight container.

Hmm, I like that actually, if it's allowable here; think I'll
check that out further.

Couple questions:
Why do you say the several containers are a hazard? I don't
want several containers, but curious why they're more hazardous
than a drum?
How do you control moisture inside the tank? Wouldn't it have
to be kep mostly full year 'round to keep moisture from becoming
a problem?
Still thinking about moistu How would one know the drum
they are getting wasn't going to rust inside? Outside you paint
& care for, but regular 55 gal drums are relatively thin metal,
are they not?
If it were you, where would you source the drum from? I have
a few in the cellar that i keep drinking water in, that stay fine
inside, but ... dunno what would happen if they contained
gasoline.

I don't see any problem with gas getting stale; as long as it's
kept in closed containers it'll last 6 months easy, and right now
in the spring I just start using up the winter gas in the lawn
tractor, weed eater, etc etc etc.. So that part doesn't worry me
too much; it's fairly easy to keep a turn-over going. Especially
if I could easily dump it into the car too.

Hmm, I'll bet a propane tank would work too, wouldn't it? Maybe
even two of them. Certainly no problem with tank
expansion/collapse in the changeing temps and all that - and they
could even be lightly pressurized with moisture-free (well,
filtered anyway) compressed air, to act as a pump of sorts. I
keep envisioning a drum collapsing after a heat wave followed by
a few cold nights g. Well, that pressurizing might not be
practical, but the rest bears some thinking about.

Thanks - helps to discuss things with others. Sort of like
brainstorming; brings out new thoughts.

Pop



They are hazardous because you have more chances
of spills from splits, stumbling over them, vapor
release, etc.

You don't need to control moisture inside. If it
really worries you a can of gas drier in or better
yet about 8 ounces of ethanol (from the paint
store) in a full tank. It won't rust inside when
full of gas. But the best insurance is to have a
new or nearly new barrel with no evidence of rust.
If that still worries you put a filter on the
outflow or use a built in filter at the tap. The
barrel may rust through but not for a long time
like 20 years.

No, 55 gallon drums are heavy metal. I used one
for compost half buried in the ground and later
switched to one standing up in the open (easier to
dump over to empty). The first lasted about 15
years but the bottom rusted out because I had
poked holes in it for drainage. The second which
stand in my garden (and gets sprayed at least
every 3rd day throughout the summer)is still going
strong (bottom rusty because it has holes poked in
it and solid except for the bottom. I bought the
second at least 10 years ago from a farm woman who
had used it for many years on a wagon to spray
insecticide. Now if they can stand holding
compost year round, gasoline storage is not going
to affect them much. My father store gas in one
for probably 25 years, unfortunately, the last
placement was under a cedar tree standing upright.
He only got gas out in an emergency so water and
snow would fill the top rim, leaves would fall on
the top and decompose, and then daily temperature
changes would cause the barrel to contract and
pull the mess from the top through the threads of
the fill screws. What was pulled through was so
fine you couldn't see it, but it plugged one of
those sintered bronze gas filters. You are not
going to rust out a good steel barrel.

I have no idea what the cost of a new one is
(check any gas and oil company), but the best bet
for a decent price is to buy a standard oil barrel
from someone or some company that uses a lot of
oil--diesel, lub oil, hydraulic fluid, cutting
fluid, and whatever comes in barrels. Check
garages, heavy equipment dealers and repair
places, lub shops, farmers.

Check what the gas company URLs say. Gas remains
fresh for at least 1 year if stored properly.

Yep other tanks are possible, but they will be a
lot more expensive, especially for the little
amount of gas you want to store.

Sealed gas tanks worked ok for my dad with
temperatures ranging from -40 to 87 degrees. The
end walls would bulge, but they never leaked. If
a drum is full of gas it can collapse. Actually
it won't collapse if you have 4 or 5 gallons in
it. and the temp difference between hot days
followed by cold night isn't significant. If you
are really worried, when winter comes, open the
top screw to equalize the pressure and then close
tight, but there is no need for that, just taking
some gas out every month eliminates any possible
problem.
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Pop wrote:
"Toller" wrote in message
news :
: "Pop" wrote in message
: news:VAKDf.2424$ap3.1827@trndny03...
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?
:
: I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
: multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several
hours in
: the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of
'98 - 5
: days without power.
:
: Thats not so bad; I was 10 days from the 91 ice storm and 6
days from the 98
: wind storm. But we rarely have a short outage.
:
: Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
: I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
: about late November through February. They're all in proper
: containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made
for
: the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the
road/driveway
: for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline
storage,
: no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas
sitting
: around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I
know
: I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
: garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden
gate
: into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
: lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..
:
: That seems quite reasonable; I just have 3-2 gallon plastic
cans sitting on
: a shelf in my garage.
: A real inflamable cabinet would be a good upgrade (for either
of us). I see
: them at auctions for reasonable prices every now and then but
can't justify
: the room they take up.
:
: I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be
a
: business.
:
: It is easy enough to register as a business; if that would be
enough. Get a
: tax certificate and all that. (means you have to file
quarterly, even if
: you don't actually do any business...) You could be Pop's snow
plowing, and
: then just never get around to doing it.

Actually, that is a problem for me. I am disabled and starting a
business, even just on paper as a sole proprietor, would look
pretty bad to the "powers that be" (read as gummint critters).
They'd be all over me for SGA, taxes and all kinds of things,
looking to take it away from me. rant I committed murder for
them, and they'd "murder" me just as fast as we did the gooks;
there's nothing fair about our government and they're only there
when you don't need them.
/rant

Pop


Registering as a business is bogus. You still
have to prove that you use the gas off road.
Thirty gallons a year isn't going to save enough
in gas taxes for the trouble.
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
mm
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 03:03:30 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Bob" wrote in message
...
Years ago, I asked the PA Dept. of Revenue about sales tax. They told me I
was not required to collect sales tax on anything I install, as long as I
pay sales tax on an item when I buy it.

I hope NYS agrees with you, because I have done that rather than mess with
tax exempt certificates when buying supplies. My theory is that the
customer is buying the supplies and reimbursing me for them; I am only
selling my labor and profit.


Only one person has to pay sales tax, either the middle man or the
final consumer. If the middle man doesn't want to pay sales tax, he
has to get a resale permit, collect the tax on anything that would be
sales-taxable, and pay that money to the appropriate state agency.

Wholesalers shouldn't sell things to anyone without collecting sales
tax, unless they have seen the buyer's permit, have recorded his
permit number, and he is not buying things to use for himself, but to
resell.



Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.
  #25   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"MC" wrote in message
.. .
: George E. Cawthon wrote:
: Pop wrote:
:
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your
generators?
:
....
:
: On our farm we used to have permanent tanks, We had to replace
the tanks
: once and the supplier said would need to now have EPA approved
: installation, etc. We did not want to go through the expense of
that.
: The supplier told us that anything not a permanent fixture
would not
: necessarily need to be approved by the EPA. Many construction
companies
: use portable tanks to take to job sites. So we got a small
heavy duty
: trailer and mounted a small 100 Gal tank and then pulled down
to the
: supplier to have filled instead of them coming out to us.
Worked out
: better since when on one side of the property for a while we
could take
: the tank with us.
:
: May be an option, would still depend on laws in your area, May
can get a
: 55 gal drum that would be adequate and strap down on a suitable
utility
: trailer if you have means to tow somewhere to fill (Even the
local gas
: station)
:

Good brainstorming; thanks all. Looking like the drum idea is
best and the one i understand the best so far. Can't haul it to
be filled though 'cause around here they'll only put fuel (even
kero) in approved containers so I called to see about delivery:
Can't find a place yet that will deliver gasoline - they're only
for fuel oil types. They also said gas could only be delivered
to a properly installed EPA container, so I guess that's out.

Thanks
Pop




  #26   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"George E. Cawthon" wrote in
message
...
: Pop wrote:
: "George E. Cawthon" wrote in
: message
:
...
: : Pop wrote:
: : Hi,
: :
: : What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your
generators?
....
:
: They are hazardous because you have more chances
: of spills from splits, stumbling over them, vapor
: release, etc.
Agreed; that's why I made the little red, metal "closet" for
them to store in, besides the fact that the fire dept liked it
better (grudgingly, but they said there was nothing to stop me).
That was a long time ago; I'm almost afraid to ask again. We
only have volunteer FD's around here but they're pretty sharp in
general.
:
: You don't need to control moisture inside. If it
: really worries you a can of gas drier in or better
: yet about 8 ounces of ethanol (from the paint
: store) in a full tank. It won't rust inside when
: full of gas. But the best insurance is to have a
: new or nearly new barrel with no evidence of rust.

Good points.

You seem to be right. I have two metal and two plastic barrels
for water stored downstairs in the basement. I emptied the metal
barrels and pulled rings to look inside; they're pretty clean and
not rusty.

: If that still worries you put a filter on the
: outflow or use a built in filter at the tap. The
: barrel may rust through but not for a long time
: like 20 years.

Good; hadn't thought of that yet - already have funnels with the
copper water strainers in them.

:
: No, 55 gallon drums are heavy metal. I used one
: for compost half buried in the ground and later
: switched to one standing up in the open (easier to
: dump over to empty). The first lasted about 15
: years but the bottom rusted out because I had
: poked holes in it for drainage. The second which
: stand in my garden (and gets sprayed at least
: every 3rd day throughout the summer)is still going
: strong (bottom rusty because it has holes poked in
: it and solid except for the bottom. I bought the
: second at least 10 years ago from a farm woman who
: had used it for many years on a wagon to spray
: insecticide. Now if they can stand holding
: compost year round, gasoline storage is not going
: to affect them much. My father store gas in one
: for probably 25 years, unfortunately, the last
: placement was under a cedar tree standing upright.
: He only got gas out in an emergency so water and
: snow would fill the top rim, leaves would fall on
: the top and decompose, and then daily temperature
: changes would cause the barrel to contract and
: pull the mess from the top through the threads of
: the fill screws. What was pulled through was so
: fine you couldn't see it, but it plugged one of
: those sintered bronze gas filters. You are not
: going to rust out a good steel barrel.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
:
: I have no idea what the cost of a new one is
: (check any gas and oil company), but the best bet
: for a decent price is to buy a standard oil barrel
: from someone or some company that uses a lot of
: oil--diesel, lub oil, hydraulic fluid, cutting
: fluid, and whatever comes in barrels. Check
: garages, heavy equipment dealers and repair
: places, lub shops, farmers.

Ah, hadn't thought of Agway either - even have a relative works
at one of them. Also have a nephew at a car dealership. Good
thinking - if they can't help me they'll at least know where I
can call around to I bet.
:
: Check what the gas company URLs say. Gas remains
: fresh for at least 1 year if stored properly.

Yup, stale gas isn't really ever an issue. Worst happens here is
I use up the winterized gas in the summer for lawn equipment. I
do keep it rotating.
:
: Yep other tanks are possible, but they will be a
: lot more expensive, especially for the little
: amount of gas you want to store.
:
: Sealed gas tanks worked ok for my dad with
: temperatures ranging from -40 to 87 degrees. The
: end walls would bulge, but they never leaked. If
: a drum is full of gas it can collapse. Actually
: it won't collapse if you have 4 or 5 gallons in
: it. and the temp difference between hot days
: followed by cold night isn't significant.

Ummm, nearly empty cans can collapse too - I've done it; not
completely, but enough it wouldn't reliably sit upright any
longer. One side collapsed more than the other.
Are you saying the expand/contraction of gasoline can also
collapse a can if it's full and air tight? I never thought of
that, but I can see it's possible I guess, esp inthe case of 45
or 55 gallons; it would be a fairly significant volume change I
guess.

If you
: are really worried, when winter comes, open the
: top screw to equalize the pressure and then close
: tight, but there is no need for that, just taking
: some gas out every month eliminates any possible
: problem.

Right. Goog point.

Thanks for your thoughts.


  #27   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Pop wrote:
((snipped))



Ummm, nearly empty cans can collapse too - I've done it; not
completely, but enough it wouldn't reliably sit upright any
longer. One side collapsed more than the other.
Are you saying the expand/contraction of gasoline can also
collapse a can if it's full and air tight? I never thought of
that, but I can see it's possible I guess, esp inthe case of 45
or 55 gallons; it would be a fairly significant volume change I
guess.


No, I'm not saying that. Liquids don't compress,
so a tank full of liquid can never collapse. What
I'm saying is that you don't need to worry about a
55 gallon drum collapsing under any condition. It
might bulge or dimple a bit but that is all.

The old school trick of collapsing a metal can by
boiling some water in it, screwing on a tight cap,
and then letting it cool is fun to watch, shows
the power of air pressure, but is extreme. You
have water vapor dropping from 212 to a lower
temperature and condensing to liquid. That leaves
virtually no vapor in the can. That extreme will
never happen with gasoline in a barrel without
deliberate manipulation to cause it.


If you
: are really worried, when winter comes, open the
: top screw to equalize the pressure and then close
: tight, but there is no need for that, just taking
: some gas out every month eliminates any possible
: problem.

Right. Goog point.

Thanks for your thoughts.


  #28   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
MC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Pop wrote:
"MC" wrote in message
.. .
: George E. Cawthon wrote:
: Pop wrote:
:
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your
generators?
:
...
:
: On our farm we used to have permanent tanks, We had to replace
the tanks
: once and the supplier said would need to now have EPA approved
: installation, etc. We did not want to go through the expense of
that.
: The supplier told us that anything not a permanent fixture
would not
: necessarily need to be approved by the EPA. Many construction
companies
: use portable tanks to take to job sites. So we got a small
heavy duty
: trailer and mounted a small 100 Gal tank and then pulled down
to the
: supplier to have filled instead of them coming out to us.
Worked out
: better since when on one side of the property for a while we
could take
: the tank with us.
:
: May be an option, would still depend on laws in your area, May
can get a
: 55 gal drum that would be adequate and strap down on a suitable
utility
: trailer if you have means to tow somewhere to fill (Even the
local gas
: station)
:

Good brainstorming; thanks all. Looking like the drum idea is
best and the one i understand the best so far. Can't haul it to
be filled though 'cause around here they'll only put fuel (even
kero) in approved containers so I called to see about delivery:
Can't find a place yet that will deliver gasoline - they're only
for fuel oil types. They also said gas could only be delivered
to a properly installed EPA container, so I guess that's out.

Thanks
Pop


I would think any qty up to a 55 gal drum/tank that is mobile would just
be able to go to the local gas station and fill up. the attendants never
know if approved or not. Where I live everyone in any sort of
construction has custom made tanks that are not approved by anyone, they
just pull up and fill up and go. My truck hold 60 gal itself so qty
would not be an issue there.
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

MC wrote:
Pop wrote:

"MC" wrote in message
.. .
: George E. Cawthon wrote:
: Pop wrote:
:
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?
:
...
:
: On our farm we used to have permanent tanks, We had to replace the
tanks
: once and the supplier said would need to now have EPA approved
: installation, etc. We did not want to go through the expense of that.
: The supplier told us that anything not a permanent fixture would not
: necessarily need to be approved by the EPA. Many construction companies
: use portable tanks to take to job sites. So we got a small heavy duty
: trailer and mounted a small 100 Gal tank and then pulled down to the
: supplier to have filled instead of them coming out to us. Worked out
: better since when on one side of the property for a while we could take
: the tank with us.
:
: May be an option, would still depend on laws in your area, May can
get a
: 55 gal drum that would be adequate and strap down on a suitable utility
: trailer if you have means to tow somewhere to fill (Even the local gas
: station)
:

Good brainstorming; thanks all. Looking like the drum idea is best
and the one i understand the best so far. Can't haul it to be filled
though 'cause around here they'll only put fuel (even kero) in
approved containers so I called to see about delivery: Can't find a
place yet that will deliver gasoline - they're only for fuel oil
types. They also said gas could only be delivered to a properly
installed EPA container, so I guess that's out.

Thanks
Pop

I would think any qty up to a 55 gal drum/tank that is mobile would just
be able to go to the local gas station and fill up. the attendants never
know if approved or not. Where I live everyone in any sort of
construction has custom made tanks that are not approved by anyone, they
just pull up and fill up and go. My truck hold 60 gal itself so qty
would not be an issue there.


Of course you are right, local codes have nothing
to do with how much gas you buy or essentially
anything you do at a gas station or on a highway.
Heck you could just buy a truck put two 30
gallon tanks in the bed, and use it just to hold
gas at home. Totally out of the jurisdiction of
local codes as long as it meets the state
roadworthy requirements.

The simplest procedure as suggested above is a
barrel on a small trailer. Total cost would be
about $200 or less, but you would have to register
the trailer for road use add a power connection
for brake, tail, and turn signal lights on the car
and add a simple ball hitch to your vehicle.
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Li
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

You would also have to make sure the barrel was placarded or labeled. The
DOT has rules about anything like pulled over the road.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
MC wrote:
Pop wrote:

"MC" wrote in message
.. .
: George E. Cawthon wrote:
: Pop wrote:
:
: Hi,
:
: What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?
:
...
:
: On our farm we used to have permanent tanks, We had to replace the
tanks
: once and the supplier said would need to now have EPA approved
: installation, etc. We did not want to go through the expense of that.
: The supplier told us that anything not a permanent fixture would not
: necessarily need to be approved by the EPA. Many construction

companies
: use portable tanks to take to job sites. So we got a small heavy duty
: trailer and mounted a small 100 Gal tank and then pulled down to the
: supplier to have filled instead of them coming out to us. Worked out
: better since when on one side of the property for a while we could

take
: the tank with us.
:
: May be an option, would still depend on laws in your area, May can
get a
: 55 gal drum that would be adequate and strap down on a suitable

utility
: trailer if you have means to tow somewhere to fill (Even the local

gas
: station)
:

Good brainstorming; thanks all. Looking like the drum idea is best
and the one i understand the best so far. Can't haul it to be filled
though 'cause around here they'll only put fuel (even kero) in
approved containers so I called to see about delivery: Can't find a
place yet that will deliver gasoline - they're only for fuel oil
types. They also said gas could only be delivered to a properly
installed EPA container, so I guess that's out.

Thanks
Pop

I would think any qty up to a 55 gal drum/tank that is mobile would just
be able to go to the local gas station and fill up. the attendants never
know if approved or not. Where I live everyone in any sort of
construction has custom made tanks that are not approved by anyone, they
just pull up and fill up and go. My truck hold 60 gal itself so qty
would not be an issue there.


Of course you are right, local codes have nothing
to do with how much gas you buy or essentially
anything you do at a gas station or on a highway.
Heck you could just buy a truck put two 30
gallon tanks in the bed, and use it just to hold
gas at home. Totally out of the jurisdiction of
local codes as long as it meets the state
roadworthy requirements.

The simplest procedure as suggested above is a
barrel on a small trailer. Total cost would be
about $200 or less, but you would have to register
the trailer for road use add a power connection
for brake, tail, and turn signal lights on the car
and add a simple ball hitch to your vehicle.





  #31   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
George E. Cawthon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

You mean the U.S. Department of Transportation? or
the state department of transportation?

Certainly the U.S. department has no jurisdiction
to regulate boat trailers or what you haul in the
boat on a trailer. (think interstate
transportation). The state does have regulations
on trailers, most individuals probably have no
idea what may be prohibited from being hauled or
the conditions required and couldn't care less. I
have my doubts that the state patrol has any idea
either and would stop a trailer only if it is
swaying. They wouldn't pay any attention to a barrel.

Li wrote:
You would also have to make sure the barrel was placarded or labeled. The
DOT has rules about anything like pulled over the road.

  #32   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

George E. Cawthon wrote:
You mean the U.S. Department of Transportation? or the state department
of transportation?

Certainly the U.S. department has no jurisdiction to regulate boat
trailers or what you haul in the boat on a trailer. (think interstate
transportation). The state does have regulations on trailers, most
individuals probably have no idea what may be prohibited from being
hauled or the conditions required and couldn't care less. I have my
doubts that the state patrol has any idea either and would stop a
trailer only if it is swaying. They wouldn't pay any attention to a
barrel.

Li wrote:

You would also have to make sure the barrel was placarded or labeled.
The
DOT has rules about anything like pulled over the road.


Bad advise for Maryland. Our state police are very well trained in the
recognition of illegal hazardous materials transports. The US DOT rules
are enforceable on intrastate shipment because it is simply impractical
to tell intrastate from interstate in actual practice. If the Maryland
State police can see that barrel you will be stopped. The regularly
stop camping and travel trailers for using over sized propane tanks.
Such training and enforcement efforts have received a lot of command
attention since 2001/9/11.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Richard J Kinch
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Pop writes:

Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them.


I made a hose for the pressure test fitting on my Jeep's fuel injector
rail, and now it pumps gas for emergencies!
  #34   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Pop
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
.. .
: Pop writes:
:
: Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to
get
: the gas out of them.
:
: I made a hose for the pressure test fitting on my Jeep's fuel
injector
: rail, and now it pumps gas for emergencies!

Actually, I've considered that, but ... I've never been sure of
the right way to do it. How do you trigger the fuel pump; turn
ignition to ON (not start), or jumper in the test connector?
I've never been able to locate the right pins in the power
connector. What did you use for a valve?

Pop


  #35   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

I am a farmer. I dont have one of these but I have seen farmers with
a 30 or 55 gallon drum with a hand operated pump that screws right
into the threaded hole on the drum. Then you just pump it out. You
need to change the gas once a year or so or it will go stale, so then
just pump it into your car and bring home a few 5 gallon gas cans
every day and refill it. I have to gas up my tractor, but I just haul
5 gallon gas cans and always keep one on hand. I have considered
getting a drum and pump myself, and may do this some day.

I think a vent is needed for heat/cold expansion contraction.
Go to your local TSC (Tractor Supply Co). I think they have them.

Mark



On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:35:33 GMT, "Pop"
wrote:

Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
about late November through February. They're all in proper
containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for
the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway
for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage,
no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting
around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I know
I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden gate
into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a
business.
Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop




  #36   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

In reply to my own message that I just left you, I decided to do a
little looking on the web.

Here's a barrel (drum) pump made for gasoline (and other liquids) for
$25.
http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/137382.htm

Here is another
http://www.randmh.com/php/page.phtml?0300
Stock number W1408366 Low cost Steel pump (also $25)

Then all you need is a drum and I'd inquire about the venting.
Be sure the drum did not contain some chemicals that will mix with the
gas and cause problems. Find one of the oil change places or a
tractor repair center. They get motor oil, trans fluid, etc. in those
drums. A little oil in the gas wont hurt a thing. You will likely
have to pay for the barrel, they usually pay a deposit on them.

Using google, I searched for "drum pump" (with quotes).
There are lots of them. This is the first one I found that said (FOR
GASOLINE). I'm sure there are others.

Heck, for that price I might order one myself !!!

Here are a few other sites I looked at.
http://www.vestilmfg.com/products/dh...dispensing.htm
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...sp?sku=0707980
http://www.indco.com/products.aspx?catid=119&mapid=43
http://www.randmh.com/php/page.phtml?0300

Here is a vent.
It says .... F) The VENT-B opens manually or automatically at 5 p.s.i.
May be used with flammable liquids. Utilize on plastic or steel drums.
Fits horizontal drum with 2" bung opening.
GO TO: http://www.vestilmfg.com/products/dh...um_faucets.htm

Mark

-----------------------------------


On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:35:33 GMT, "Pop"
wrote:

Hi,

What do you folk do for gasoline storage for your generators?

I am in far northern NY with harsh winters and occasional
multi-day power outages with frequent outages of several hours in
the winter. Worst one so far was during the Ice Storm of '98 - 5
days without power.

Here's my solution, but I don't like it:
I simply keep about 30-35 gallons of gas on hand beginning
about late November through February. They're all in proper
containers, stored outdoors, in a small open "locker" I made for
the purpose, painted red, highly visible from the road/driveway
for emergency vehicles, and clearly labelled as gasoline storage,
no smoking, all that good stuff. But that's a LOT of gas sitting
around in separate containers, some of the plastic, which I know
I should get rid of. That locker is about ten feet from the
garage and near a storage shed behind them, with a wooden gate
into the area. Theft is not a problem - very rural, motion
lites, siren, and someone is home near 24/7, etc..

I wanted a farm tank wiht a pump, but was refused; have to be a
business.
Have two cars, which hold plenty of fuel, but ... no way to get
the gas out of them. Siphoning is impossible these days.

My next generator's going to be a diesel! I know how to pump
fuel oil from my furnaces! But what about right now?

TIA,

Pop


  #37   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
Richard J Kinch
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gasoline Storage

Pop writes:

Actually, I've considered that, but ... I've never been sure of
the right way to do it. How do you trigger the fuel pump; turn
ignition to ON (not start), or jumper in the test connector?
I've never been able to locate the right pins in the power
connector. What did you use for a valve?


The rail has a Schrader valve with 1/4 flare fitting. All you need is a
1/4 female flare on a hose. Connect it, run hose to fuel can, start the
car. Turn off car when done. Kind of like drawing blood.
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