On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:03:36 -0000, colin wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tmvmiiqt4buhsv@fx62...
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:38:36 -0000, colin
wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tmrzqxxk4buhsv@fx62...
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:53:25 -0000, Snap Whipcrack..............
wrote:

It dissipates. Where do you think the microwave transmitters on
mountain
tops power ends up? It doesn't go round and round the earth forever.

It's absorbed into water, in lakes for example.

A closed microwave has nothing that can absorb it.

The glass tray will usually absorb some of the microwave, basically when
its
empty the electric field builds up to such a high value that it
eventually
gets absorbed by something somewhere, or it ends up disipating in
sparking
wich can be quite spectacular if have two bits of unconnected metal
close to
eachother.

Brainiac Science Abuse (TV program) put a set of five swinging balls (one
of them office toys) in a microwave on its own. The microwave exploded
spectacularly after less than a minute. Can you explain that?

From what ive seen of braniac they probably filled it with something that
would explode spectacularly.
I wonder what the balls were made of, something explosive perhaps ?
ordinary flour or paper dust can make a very good explosive if mixed with
air.

You mean they were lying?!?

A colleague suggested that large metal objects might "short circuit" the magnetron and draw more power from it than it expects. I didn't agree or disagree, I know nothing about that sort of thing.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Caller: "Can you give me the telephone number for Jack?"
Operator: "I'm sorry, sir, I don't understand who you are talking about".
Caller: "On page 1, section 5, of the user guide it clearly states that I need to unplug the fax machine from the AC wall socket and telephone Jack before cleaning. Now, can you give me the number for Jack?"

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:40:56 -0000, Bill Janssen wrote:

colin wrote:
"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tmvmmskc4buhsv@fx62...

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:35:16 -0000, Snap Whipcrack..............

wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:49:43 -0000, Snap Whipcrack..............

wrote:

break it?

overheating, or a build up of microwaves over a certain level?

I'm concerned one of my pet parrots will switch it on! (Seriously, they do
stuff like that)

But where do you think the power ends up if it is not absorbed?


Same question, where do the light waves go from the light inside the
microwave? Same energy, just higher frequency and lower power. Same
place as the microwaves.

Light is absorbed into all sorts of things. Microwaves are NOT absorbed

into anything inside the oven. They are reflected completely by the metal
sides.

not completly, even if they were silver coated it would still not be quite
100%,
it bounces back and forth so quickly eventually even the smallest loss gets
multiplied suficiently to absorb considerable energy.

Colin =^.^=
While the microwave is bouncing around in the oven there will be
locations where the signal combines to generate
high voltages and other places where high currents are generated. These
locations can be in side of the Magnetron.

As long as it doesn't explode. I have a good mind to try it with my old one. Outside.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

This exchange was overheard between the separated sections of the jail.
A male voice yells over to the female side: "I got 12 inches over here you would love to have."
The female response was: "Well, spit it out it isn't yours."

On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:24:34 -0000, Geoff wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:
On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:59:45 -0000, Daniel Mandic
wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:

(Seriously,
they do stuff like that)


Aha. My Cats like to turn on my Vaccuum cleaner and I get shocked, in
the first moments.

(Seriously, I have left the Vacuum cleaner connected to the
wall-socket many times, indeed. But it was never on, when I came
back home)

I have had them chew through the flex.

I suggest that the main problem is your desire to have 14 parrots in your
house.

13.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A thousand monkeys pounding on a thousand typewriters will eventually produce either the bible, or a system error.

Peter Hucker wrote:


I suggest that the main problem is your desire to have 14 parrots in
your house.

13.

That's just unlucky !

geoff

Peter Hucker wrote:

The parrots don't understand, they just like to take things to pieces.


Yeah, I understand slightly.

I think the parrots do not have such a sense for Electricity like cats.
Sometimes I pet my Cats and it is coming to electric tension. In the
Dark, I can even see flashing light :-).

What can I say, they enjoy it :-). Many other pets would not like such
a discharge IMHO and would be off.




Best regards,

Daniel Mandic

On Jan 26, 2:14 pm, "Peter Hucker" wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:35:58 -0000, Brewer720 wrote:

On Jan 19, 3:13 pm, "Peter Hucker" wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will break it?

Even more worrying - will it catch fire or explode?

Don't they have a safety cutout? Can't it sense the Klystron overheating, or a build up of microwaves over a certain level?

I have purchased a new microwave which has an easier to grab control. I'm concerned one of my pet parrots will switch it on! (Seriously, they do stuff like that)

--http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A Pakistani arrives in London City all excited. He stops the first person he meets. "Good day, Mr. British, thank you to accept me in Your nice country", but the person interrupts and says: "I am not British, I'm Chinese."
The Pakistani continues on his way and meets another passer-by. "Thank you Mr. British for to let my family and me stay here... " Again, he's interrupted before finishing his sentence. "I no be British, I be Turk!"
He goes a little farther and meets another person and greets him "thank you for letting me come to your beautiful country." ... "I'm not British, I'm Kosavon."
"But," answers the Pakistani distressed, "where are the British??"
The Kosavon looks at his watch and says ..... "Probably at work."

Why would a parrot turn on a microwave oven? Is he pining for the
fjords? Sorry... I couldn't resist.

Seriously, perhaps you could put a large bowl or something in there so
that the door can't be closed. If the door can't close, no matter what
the parrot does the safety interlock would prevent the oven from
starting.

I cannot leave the door open. They will go inside and chew things, like the cardboard (?!) cover over the magnetron.

--http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

What does a Polish woman do after she sucks a cock?
Spits out the feathers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:43:37 -0000, Daniel Mandic wrote:

Peter Hucker wrote:

The parrots don't understand, they just like to take things to pieces.


Yeah, I understand slightly.

I think the parrots do not have such a sense for Electricity like cats.
Sometimes I pet my Cats and it is coming to electric tension. In the
Dark, I can even see flashing light :-).

What can I say, they enjoy it :-). Many other pets would not like such
a discharge IMHO and would be off.

They're not scared of anything. They love fireworks for example.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

I met this gal in a bar and one thing lead to another. I said, "Let's go back to my place."
She said, "Oh, do you have cable?"
I said, "No, but I have some old ropes that should do just fine."

On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:32:16 -0000, Brewer720 wrote:

On Jan 26, 2:14 pm, "Peter Hucker" wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:35:58 -0000, Brewer720 wrote:

On Jan 19, 3:13 pm, "Peter Hucker" wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will break it?

Even more worrying - will it catch fire or explode?

Don't they have a safety cutout? Can't it sense the Klystron overheating, or a build up of microwaves over a certain level?

I have purchased a new microwave which has an easier to grab control. I'm concerned one of my pet parrots will switch it on! (Seriously, they do stuff like that)

--http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A Pakistani arrives in London City all excited. He stops the first person he meets. "Good day, Mr. British, thank you to accept me in Your nice country", but the person interrupts and says: "I am not British, I'm Chinese."
The Pakistani continues on his way and meets another passer-by. "Thank you Mr. British for to let my family and me stay here... " Again, he's interrupted before finishing his sentence. "I no be British, I be Turk!"
He goes a little farther and meets another person and greets him "thank you for letting me come to your beautiful country." ... "I'm not British, I'm Kosavon."
"But," answers the Pakistani distressed, "where are the British??"
The Kosavon looks at his watch and says ..... "Probably at work."

Why would a parrot turn on a microwave oven? Is he pining for the
fjords? Sorry... I couldn't resist.

Seriously, perhaps you could put a large bowl or something in there so
that the door can't be closed. If the door can't close, no matter what
the parrot does the safety interlock would prevent the oven from
starting.

I cannot leave the door open. They will go inside and chew things, like the cardboard (?!) cover over the magnetron.

--http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

What does a Polish woman do after she sucks a cock?
Spits out the feathers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Errr.... which bit did you write?

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Always finish what you have starte

most with glass rotating trays will run, the glass absorbs enough rays to
heat up slightly but wont smoke anything.

might ruin your electric bill budget though. ;-))

shakle the damm bird to the cage/perch

or teach the bird to climb inside to warm itself up. ;-P





"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tme3s0ec4buhsv@fx62...
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Even more worrying - will it catch fire or explode?

Don't they have a safety cutout? Can't it sense the Klystron overheating,
or a build up of microwaves over a certain level?

I have purchased a new microwave which has an easier to grab control. I'm
concerned one of my pet parrots will switch it on! (Seriously, they do
stuff like that)

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A Pakistani arrives in London City all excited. He stops the first person
he meets. "Good day, Mr. British, thank you to accept me in Your nice
country", but the person interrupts and says: "I am not British, I'm
Chinese."
The Pakistani continues on his way and meets another passer-by. "Thank you
Mr. British for to let my family and me stay here... " Again, he's
interrupted before finishing his sentence. "I no be British, I be Turk!"
He goes a little farther and meets another person and greets him "thank
you for letting me come to your beautiful country." ... "I'm not British,
I'm Kosavon."
"But," answers the Pakistani distressed, "where are the British??"
The Kosavon looks at his watch and says ..... "Probably at work."

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tmzeq8ks4buhsv@fx62...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:03:36 -0000, colin
wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tmvmiiqt4buhsv@fx62...
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:38:36 -0000, colin
wrote:

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tmrzqxxk4buhsv@fx62...
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:53:25 -0000, Snap Whipcrack..............
wrote:

It dissipates. Where do you think the microwave transmitters on
mountain
tops power ends up? It doesn't go round and round the earth
forever.

It's absorbed into water, in lakes for example.

A closed microwave has nothing that can absorb it.

The glass tray will usually absorb some of the microwave, basically
when
its
empty the electric field builds up to such a high value that it
eventually
gets absorbed by something somewhere, or it ends up disipating in
sparking
wich can be quite spectacular if have two bits of unconnected metal
close to
eachother.

Brainiac Science Abuse (TV program) put a set of five swinging balls
(one
of them office toys) in a microwave on its own. The microwave exploded
spectacularly after less than a minute. Can you explain that?

From what ive seen of braniac they probably filled it with something
that
would explode spectacularly.
I wonder what the balls were made of, something explosive perhaps ?
ordinary flour or paper dust can make a very good explosive if mixed
with
air.

You mean they were lying?!?

well normally in order to cuase an explosion you have to have a combustable
material that burns very quickly,
the force comes from the fact that the burnt material wich is oxidesed takes
up a great deal more volume
and until it expands is under great pressure. in an empty oven there is no
combustables.

they always seem to try something to see if it blows up and if it doesnt
then they make sure it does, its often a caravan or microwave oven that gets
blown up.

A colleague suggested that large metal objects might "short circuit" the
magnetron and draw more power from it than it expects. I didn't agree or
disagree, I know nothing about that sort of thing.

It cant 'draw' more power from it unless that power actualy goes somewhere,
however it can put the magnetron under more stress, the voltages and current
may be higher even though the power is actually less, ie they are out of
phase and hence arnt both high at the same time.

but theres actually not that much to a magnetron, theres a central cathode
wich is like a rod with a heater inside, and a circular anode around this
with slots in, all in a vacuum and also not surprisngly a strong magnet.
The power is picked up via a piece of wire inbetween one of the slots.
The anode is what gets hot due to current flowing and is attatched to a
quite large heatsink with great number of fins wich has a fan blowing on it.

theres not a great deal to go wrong, its simplicity is its strength, the
same basic design was used 60 years ago, it could lose the vacuum of course,
or the insulation could fail, or the heater could break, or the magnet could
lose its strength but most of the parts are designed to work at a high
temperature, its just metal and glass, its not like silicon wich self
destructs at 200'c.

The transformer does actually limit the current anyway.

Colin =^.^=

On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:58:14 GMT, "colin"
wrote:

well normally in order to cuase an explosion you have to have a combustable
material that burns very quickly,
the force comes from the fact that the burnt material wich is oxidesed takes
up a great deal more volume
and until it expands is under great pressure. in an empty oven there is no
combustables.


WEll, almost right... (and your 'normally' does apply, so what you say
is true, but there's more! bg)

All you need is pressure, not a combustable substance.

In the case of the balls that 'exploded' were they to have a 'strong'
outter shell, and a high moisture content inside, the moisture could
easily convert to steam and build up pressure until the outer shell
failed--an explosion... It would not be difficult to build up a
hundred PSI of steam pressure, and that would result in a rather large
'bang'!

"PeterD" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:58:14 GMT, "colin"
wrote:

well normally in order to cuase an explosion you have to have a
combustable
material that burns very quickly,
the force comes from the fact that the burnt material wich is oxidesed
takes
up a great deal more volume
and until it expands is under great pressure. in an empty oven there is
no
combustables.


WEll, almost right... (and your 'normally' does apply, so what you say
is true, but there's more! bg)

All you need is pressure, not a combustable substance.

In the case of the balls that 'exploded' were they to have a 'strong'
outter shell, and a high moisture content inside, the moisture could
easily convert to steam and build up pressure until the outer shell
failed--an explosion... It would not be difficult to build up a
hundred PSI of steam pressure, and that would result in a rather large
'bang'!

aha yes the Boiling liquid expanding vapour explosions didnt think of that
at the time,
but I did think enough to say normally lol,
bit like eggs that explode when you put them in a microwave without first
making a hole in them,
although its not all that exciting.

Colin =^.^=

colin wrote:
"PeterD" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:58:14 GMT, "colin"
wrote:

well normally in order to cuase an explosion you have to have a
combustable
material that burns very quickly,
the force comes from the fact that the burnt material wich is oxidesed
takes
up a great deal more volume
and until it expands is under great pressure. in an empty oven there is
no
combustables.

WEll, almost right... (and your 'normally' does apply, so what you say
is true, but there's more! bg)

All you need is pressure, not a combustable substance.

In the case of the balls that 'exploded' were they to have a 'strong'
outter shell, and a high moisture content inside, the moisture could
easily convert to steam and build up pressure until the outer shell
failed--an explosion... It would not be difficult to build up a
hundred PSI of steam pressure, and that would result in a rather large
'bang'!

aha yes the Boiling liquid expanding vapour explosions didnt think of that
at the time,
but I did think enough to say normally lol,
bit like eggs that explode when you put them in a microwave without first
making a hole in them,
although its not all that exciting.

Colin =^.^=





Once upon a time whilst visiting the in-laws in Germany, my wife
reheated some hard boiled eggs in their shells in the microwave by
placing an egg in a glass tumbler and then a slightly larger one over
the first 'in case they pop'. They were then placed on the table for
'früstück'. A full two minutes later an egg exploded covering not only
us, but the ceiling, drapes and nick nak display shelves with egg. A
frantic clean up campaign started as was had a little over a hour to
restore the dining room to its pristine condition before the
mother-in-law returned. We can laugh about it now, but we never have
told the in-laws about it. One day when my father-in-law has to change a
light bulb (long-life of course) he might find a bit of dried egg and
wonder....

They're cleverer than you think. One escaped, and flew from tree to tree waiting for me to chase after him. Came back the following day by himself, after flying for miles all over the place.


On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:19:42 -0000, wrote:

most with glass rotating trays will run, the glass absorbs enough rays to
heat up slightly but wont smoke anything.

might ruin your electric bill budget though. ;-))

shakle the damm bird to the cage/perch

or teach the bird to climb inside to warm itself up. ;-P





"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tme3s0ec4buhsv@fx62...
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Even more worrying - will it catch fire or explode?

Don't they have a safety cutout? Can't it sense the Klystron overheating,
or a build up of microwaves over a certain level?

I have purchased a new microwave which has an easier to grab control. I'm
concerned one of my pet parrots will switch it on! (Seriously, they do
stuff like that)

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A Pakistani arrives in London City all excited. He stops the first person
he meets. "Good day, Mr. British, thank you to accept me in Your nice
country", but the person interrupts and says: "I am not British, I'm
Chinese."
The Pakistani continues on his way and meets another passer-by. "Thank you
Mr. British for to let my family and me stay here... " Again, he's
interrupted before finishing his sentence. "I no be British, I be Turk!"
He goes a little farther and meets another person and greets him "thank
you for letting me come to your beautiful country." ... "I'm not British,
I'm Kosavon."
"But," answers the Pakistani distressed, "where are the British??"
The Kosavon looks at his watch and says ..... "Probably at work."







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

It said, "Insert disk #3," but only two will fit!

yep, we give humans way too much in the way of exclusive ability to think
and reason. & dont forget, some of these other critters have had eons of
evolutionary expertise in dealing with the occasional problems of human
interference! and they win too! we seem to be ruthless killers for no
reasons at all!

release of grey parrots from zoo in NY city awhile back, they migrated east
to connecticut, began habitating/building HUGE stick nests around (what
else) telephone poles cross arms, complete with transformers and 14 KV feed
thru lines!

30-40 birds per nest, quite a probem for power crews! of course, animal
rights folks went nuts when they had to start removing them!. u can read
articles abt in news archives. quite interesting

:-))

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tm4zly0q4buhsv@fx62...
They're cleverer than you think. One escaped, and flew from tree to tree
waiting for me to chase after him. Came back the following day by himself,
after flying for miles all over the place.


On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:19:42 -0000, wrote:

most with glass rotating trays will run, the glass absorbs enough rays
to
heat up slightly but wont smoke anything.

might ruin your electric bill budget though. ;-))

shakle the damm bird to the cage/perch

or teach the bird to climb inside to warm itself up. ;-P





"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tme3s0ec4buhsv@fx62...
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Even more worrying - will it catch fire or explode?

Don't they have a safety cutout? Can't it sense the Klystron
overheating,
or a build up of microwaves over a certain level?

I have purchased a new microwave which has an easier to grab control.
I'm
concerned one of my pet parrots will switch it on! (Seriously, they do
stuff like that)

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A Pakistani arrives in London City all excited. He stops the first
person
he meets. "Good day, Mr. British, thank you to accept me in Your nice
country", but the person interrupts and says: "I am not British, I'm
Chinese."
The Pakistani continues on his way and meets another passer-by. "Thank
you
Mr. British for to let my family and me stay here... " Again, he's
interrupted before finishing his sentence. "I no be British, I be Turk!"
He goes a little farther and meets another person and greets him "thank
you for letting me come to your beautiful country." ... "I'm not
British,
I'm Kosavon."
"But," answers the Pakistani distressed, "where are the British??"
The Kosavon looks at his watch and says ..... "Probably at work."







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

It said, "Insert disk #3," but only two will fit!

That sounds familiar. My greys love power cords!

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 05:54:41 -0000, wrote:

yep, we give humans way too much in the way of exclusive ability to think
and reason. & dont forget, some of these other critters have had eons of
evolutionary expertise in dealing with the occasional problems of human
interference! and they win too! we seem to be ruthless killers for no
reasons at all!

release of grey parrots from zoo in NY city awhile back, they migrated east
to connecticut, began habitating/building HUGE stick nests around (what
else) telephone poles cross arms, complete with transformers and 14 KV feed
thru lines!

30-40 birds per nest, quite a probem for power crews! of course, animal
rights folks went nuts when they had to start removing them!. u can read
articles abt in news archives. quite interesting

:-))

"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tm4zly0q4buhsv@fx62...
They're cleverer than you think. One escaped, and flew from tree to tree
waiting for me to chase after him. Came back the following day by himself,
after flying for miles all over the place.


On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:19:42 -0000, wrote:

most with glass rotating trays will run, the glass absorbs enough rays
to
heat up slightly but wont smoke anything.

might ruin your electric bill budget though. ;-))

shakle the damm bird to the cage/perch

or teach the bird to climb inside to warm itself up. ;-P





"Peter Hucker" wrote in message
newsp.tme3s0ec4buhsv@fx62...
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Even more worrying - will it catch fire or explode?

Don't they have a safety cutout? Can't it sense the Klystron
overheating,
or a build up of microwaves over a certain level?

I have purchased a new microwave which has an easier to grab control.
I'm
concerned one of my pet parrots will switch it on! (Seriously, they do
stuff like that)

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

A Pakistani arrives in London City all excited. He stops the first
person
he meets. "Good day, Mr. British, thank you to accept me in Your nice
country", but the person interrupts and says: "I am not British, I'm
Chinese."
The Pakistani continues on his way and meets another passer-by. "Thank
you
Mr. British for to let my family and me stay here... " Again, he's
interrupted before finishing his sentence. "I no be British, I be Turk!"
He goes a little farther and meets another person and greets him "thank
you for letting me come to your beautiful country." ... "I'm not
British,
I'm Kosavon."
"But," answers the Pakistani distressed, "where are the British??"
The Kosavon looks at his watch and says ..... "Probably at work."







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
http://www.petersphotos.com

It said, "Insert disk #3," but only two will fit!







--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

The ant can lift 50 times its own weight, can pull 30 times its own weight, and always falls over on its right side when intoxicated.

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will break it?

Derp.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question. This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens. They ran them all the time with nothing in them. I had
always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb the
energy and mentioned that. I got a strange look from the guy. Obviously
the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what the ovens
were designed to get rid of.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

On 2017/12/12 6:14 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 03:49:55 -0000, rickman wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question.Â* This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens.Â* They ran them all the time with nothing in them.Â* I had
always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb the
energy and mentioned that.Â* I got a strange look from the guy.Â* Obviously
the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what the ovens
were designed to get rid of.

It seems nothing happens, well no fire or explosion anyway.Â* He never
said if it still worked afterwards:
https://youtu.be/AsaW5xnOkCA


Why don't you simply put a load meter on the microwave and try running
it empty or with a cup of water. I expect that with no load the unit
will simply not draw as much current.

Do regular ovens 'care' if something is in them or not? Why should a
microwave?

John :-#(#

On 2017/12/12 8:25 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:12:51 -0000, John Robertson
wrote:

On 2017/12/12 6:14 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 03:49:55 -0000, rickman wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it
will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question.Â* This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens.Â* They ran them all the time with nothing in them.
I had
always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb the
energy and mentioned that.Â* I got a strange look from the guy.
Obviously
the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what the
ovens
were designed to get rid of.

It seems nothing happens, well no fire or explosion anyway.Â* He never
said if it still worked afterwards:
https://youtu.be/AsaW5xnOkCA


Why don't you simply put a load meter on the microwave and try running
it empty or with a cup of water. I expect that with no load the unit
will simply not draw as much current.

Do regular ovens 'care' if something is in them or not? Why should a
microwave?

John :-#(#

A regular oven switches off the heater once the inside is at 200C or
whatever you set it to.

A microwave oven works completely differently.Â* 900W (or so) of
microwave energy continuously enters the cavity and should be absorbed
by the food.Â* If it isn't, where does that microwave energy go?


When in doubt find a real answer:

http://products.geappliances.com/app...ontentId=17934

So, it seems microwaves will run up to five minutes when empty, but
after that will overheat various parts. And probably die.

Learn something every day!

John :-#)#

On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 08:43:05 -0800, John Robertson
wrote:

When in doubt find a real answer:

When in doubt, read about what manufacturers have done about the empty
oven problem.

Some patents:
"Oven protective device"
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3281567A/

"Electronic oven protection circuit"
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3412227A/

"System for sensing the presence of a load in an oven cavity of a
microwave cooking appliance"
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6867402B1/

There are probably other patents.

Basically, there is a directional coupler VSWR (voltage standing wave
ratio) detector or other scheme for detecting if the oven is empty,
which senses the high reflected power produces by an empty oven and
shuts it down.


Learn by Destroying(tm) or this should be tested by Mythbusters:

About 15 years ago, I was drawn into a discussion about what bad
things might happen if the oven were to run empty. Opinions varied
ranging from nothing to planetary destruction. I wasn't sure but
based on my RF experience, I guessed(tm) that it would be either a
huge increase in voltage across the magnetron, or a huge increase in
current through the magnetron. I placed my bet on some kind of
arcing, but didn't offer any specific location.

Three allegedly functional junk microwave ovens were purchased from
the local thrift shop for about $20/ea. When the owners of the store
found out what we were doing, she threw in three more ovens that had
various defects which made them unsellable, but were allegedly able to
heat water.

I don't have time right now for the whole story, so I'll just
summarize. Every oven acted or failed differently. As I vaguely
recall:
- One immediately shut itself off and would not restart until I
unplugged the power cord. My guess(tm) is I tripped an overcurrent
breaker.
- One turned itself off after about 30 seconds by blowing a fuse.
- One made a noise indicating the something had blown up inside, but
continued to run. After about 1 minute, there was another noise
followed by smell of burning electronics.
- One arced over some burned food on the waveguide window. I removed
the window and tried again. This time it arced intermittently inside
the waveguide near the window for about 15 minutes. There was a hint
that something electrical was burning inside, so we turned it off.
- One had some mechanical damage to the case, which caused some arcing
outside of the cooking area. Since that meant that we might have high
levels of RF leaking from the oven, we terminated the test early.

I have photos of the ovens and list of makers and models. I'm too
lazy/busy to find them right now. Suffice to say that there were no
fires, explosions, implosions, lightning bolts, ball lightning, toxic
discharges or devastating EMP. In most cases, the fuse or breaker
tripped, which is easily replaced or reset. Someone did an autopsy on
3 of the ovens and found one shorted magnetron and two blown Hi-V
diodes. The ovens that seemed to have burning electronic were not
inspected.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

John Robertson wrote on 12/12/2017 11:12 AM:
On 2017/12/12 6:14 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 03:49:55 -0000, rickman wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question. This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens. They ran them all the time with nothing in them. I had
always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb the
energy and mentioned that. I got a strange look from the guy. Obviously
the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what the ovens
were designed to get rid of.

It seems nothing happens, well no fire or explosion anyway. He never said
if it still worked afterwards:
https://youtu.be/AsaW5xnOkCA


Why don't you simply put a load meter on the microwave and try running it
empty or with a cup of water. I expect that with no load the unit will
simply not draw as much current.

I don't think a microwave works like a transformer. The energy is emitted
by the unit like an antenna regardless of whether there is something to
absorb it or not. The difference is with a radio antenna the energy is free
to leave the transmitter into free space. A microwave is in a sealed box.

Hmmm... maybe the waves do go back into the klystron and reduce the power
drawn. Then why would the makers have warned to not run them empty?


Do regular ovens 'care' if something is in them or not? Why should a microwave?

Because they aren't the same?

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Jeff Liebermann wrote on 12/12/2017 2:26 PM:

Three allegedly functional junk microwave ovens were purchased from
the local thrift shop for about $20/ea. When the owners of the store
found out what we were doing, she threw in three more ovens that had
various defects which made them unsellable, but were allegedly able to
heat water.

I don't have time right now for the whole story, so I'll just
summarize. Every oven acted or failed differently.

Jeff, you are a trip!

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:


Perhaps the power going back into the klystron causes heating? Perhaps
the power goes into other parts and causes damage?

Microwave ovens use magnetrons, not klystrons. When power is applied to the
magnetron, it is pretty independent of the RF load, you apply a couple
thousand Volts minus to the cathode, and the anode is grounded. But, due to
the magnetic field, the electrons spiral outward instead of just heading
straight outward radially to the anode. Passing the resonant cavities
repeatedly during that spiral path builds the RF resonance.

The oven chamber develops standing waves. If there is nothing to absorb the
RF, it is reflected back into the magnetron, and the anode runs hotter. I
think the thermal switch on the anode is more to cover the condition where
the fan motor has seized up than no food in the oven, but may handle both to
some extent.

Jon

On 2017/12/12 2:04 PM, rickman wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote on 12/12/2017 2:26 PM:

Three allegedly functional junk microwave ovens were purchased from
the local thrift shop for about $20/ea.Â* When the owners of the store
found out what we were doing, she threw in three more ovens that had
various defects which made them unsellable, but were allegedly able to
heat water.

I don't have time right now for the whole story, so I'll just
summarize.Â* Every oven acted or failed differently.

Jeff, you are a trip!


He is having too much fun - Ban Jeff!

(thanks, Jeff!!)

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

"Mary-Jane Rottencrotch" wrote in message
...
On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Derp.

I've never had one blow up because of that, but its best avoided.

There may be am increased risk of arcing the dielectric window that covers
the end of the waveguide.

So far - I've yet to actually buy a microwave, I've done well out of simply
removing a damaged dielectric window and carrying on. Carbonised food
spatter is a far more common cause, but I wouldn't leave an empty microwave
running longer than it took to realise my mistake.

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:


Perhaps the power going back into the klystron causes heating? Perhaps
the power goes into other parts and causes damage?

Microwave ovens use magnetrons, not klystrons. When power is applied to
the
magnetron, it is pretty independent of the RF load, you apply a couple
thousand Volts minus to the cathode, and the anode is grounded. But, due
to
the magnetic field, the electrons spiral outward instead of just heading
straight outward radially to the anode. Passing the resonant cavities
repeatedly during that spiral path builds the RF resonance.

The oven chamber develops standing waves. If there is nothing to absorb
the
RF, it is reflected back into the magnetron, and the anode runs hotter. I
think the thermal switch on the anode is more to cover the condition where
the fan motor has seized up than no food in the oven, but may handle both
to
some extent.

Reflected waves can augment or cancel - or anywhere in between.

AFAIK: the extremes are flashover in the magnetron or excessive current
draw. I doesn't take much excessive current draw to cause shorted turns in
the mains transformer.

rickman wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question. This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens. They ran them all the time with nothing in them. I
had always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb
the energy and mentioned that. I got a strange look from the guy.
Obviously the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what
the ovens were designed to get rid of.

STUPID!

Microwave ovens *generate* (microwave) energy and cannot "get rid" of
any of that.

It boils down to how much of a load mis-match (SWR) can the magnetron
("maggie") tolerate.

Nothing will "break", but the maggie may burn out.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 03:49:55 -0000, rickman wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question. This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens. They ran them all the time with nothing in them. I had
always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb the
energy and mentioned that. I got a strange look from the guy. Obviously
the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what the ovens
were designed to get rid of.

You'd think there would be something that absorbs microwaves that miss
the food. And you'd think such a thing would have a thermal cutout.
Anybody want to try it?

IDIOT!
ain't nuttin that "absorbs" the energy.
Ask how the maggie works with highly mis-matched loads (hi SWR).

rickman wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote on 12/12/2017 2:26 PM:

Three allegedly functional junk microwave ovens were purchased from
the local thrift shop for about $20/ea. When the owners of the store
found out what we were doing, she threw in three more ovens that had
various defects which made them unsellable, but were allegedly able to
heat water.

I don't have time right now for the whole story, so I'll just
summarize. Every oven acted or failed differently.

Jeff, you are a trip!

I live in an apartment complex, and a lot of microwave ovens have
been thrown away; and most of them were perfectly OK after they were
cleaned up.
Same pattern with vacuum cleaners.
A number of people are pigs.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:59:42 -0000, Robert Baer
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 03:49:55 -0000, rickman wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it
will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question. This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens. They ran them all the time with nothing in them.
I had
always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb the
energy and mentioned that. I got a strange look from the guy.
Obviously
the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what the
ovens
were designed to get rid of.

You'd think there would be something that absorbs microwaves that miss
the food. And you'd think such a thing would have a thermal cutout.
Anybody want to try it?

IDIOT!
ain't nuttin that "absorbs" the energy.
Ask how the maggie works with highly mis-matched loads (hi SWR).

I went for an interview in a place that designed industrial strength
magnetron. There IS a block to absorb energy. A microwave oven without
one is VERY badly designed.

Rule of thumb or any commercial (= = volume) item is: for every fifty
cent cost to make, selling price must go up by five dollars (cars, toys,
etc).
Industrial grade magge-powered ovens cost a lot more than the over
the counter el-cheapos that the great unwashed buy.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:56:51 -0000, Robert Baer
wrote:

rickman wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question. This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens. They ran them all the time with nothing in them. I
had always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb
the energy and mentioned that. I got a strange look from the guy.
Obviously the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what
the ovens were designed to get rid of.

STUPID!

Microwave ovens *generate* (microwave) energy and cannot "get rid" of
any of that.

It boils down to how much of a load mis-match (SWR) can the magnetron
("maggie") tolerate.

Nothing will "break", but the maggie may burn out.

There is a block to absorb the energy that comes back. It should have a
thermal cutout on it.

NOTHING to "absorb", IF there is a thermal cut-out that is a BIG clue
to that fact.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Let's say I have a shop with shelf space for 500 microwaves. If the
expensive ones make me £50 and the cheap ones make me £10, I ain't
gonna sell the cheap ones.


You aren't going to sell much of anything. People will go elsewhere
to by their microwave, and take their other business with them. First of
all, it would be foolish to put out 500 units on retail shelves.
Secondly, a lot of people who buy high end items don't go to a retail
store. They call a service company, tell them what they want. It is
delivered, and installed. The old one is hauled off as part of the
price. The seller's reputation is on the line for quality, so most of
the profit comes from the labor, not the markup.

I just bought a new microwave. It was a high end model that was
closed out for $60. The original price was $160. How much profit was
lost after that $100 discount?

BTW, that is the first new microwave that I've ever bought. I've
used them for 35 years, and I only paid $2 for a good used one, once.
The rest were repaired, mostly with used parts.

Another example of silly marketing. I worked at a TV shop as a
teenager. They sold new and used Color TVs, and new B&W, but no used.
The owner gave me all the B&W trade ins that I sold from my home. I sold
more TVs than he did, and most weeks I sold more in used B&W than he did
in color sets.

In article ,
says...

Let's say I have a shop with shelf space for 500 microwaves. If the
expensive ones make me £50 and the cheap ones make me £10, I ain't gonna
sell the cheap ones.

Like I said, you don't understand retail. You may only make 10 on the low
priced ovens, but if you sell 10 of those for every 1 of the high priced
oven you will still carry the low priced oven because you will make more
money than if you don't. You will still carry the high priced oven because
you can make more money than if you don't. The fact that you have 50 of the
cheap ovens on the shelf doesn't mean you will sell more of them than if you
had 40 cheap ovens and 10 of the expensive ovens sitting on the shelf.

There are many factors you don't seem to understand.




About 60 years ago a couple of men started a grocery store with one
store. Their idea was to make 5 fast penneys instead of one slow
nickle. That turned into the Food Lion chain of stores. Made lots of
people in a small town of about 20,000 people millionairs. I was a
stock boy during part of that time and remember going to almost every
item in the store (with others) and marking down each item. This was
before bar codes and every item had to be hand marked. In that town and
several small towns around there are several Food Lion stores, Wallmart,
and two other stores toget groceries at as their main item. The A@P,
Winn-Dixie chains folded years ago.

Depending on the item, it is often better to stock many low dollar/
profit items and a few high dollar items.

People are funny. A fellow I knew sold items at a farmers market. One
day he tried to sell cantalopes for $ .25 and not selling many, he
marked that out and put up a sign of 3/$ 1.00. Sold almost all of them
at that price even though they cost more.

On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 18:31:01 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

People are funny. A fellow I knew sold items at a farmers market. One
day he tried to sell cantalopes for $ .25 and not selling many, he
marked that out and put up a sign of 3/$ 1.00. Sold almost all of them
at that price even though they cost more.

I found this at a local market:
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/you-save.html
When I accosted a stocking clerk to point out the problem, he failed
to see what was wrong. When I dragged over a manager, it took about
15 seconds for his brain to engage and see the problem. He later
mentioned that it was like that for at least 2 days and nobody
noticed.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Let's say I have a shop with shelf space for 500 microwaves. If the
expensive ones make me £50 and the cheap ones make me £10, I ain't gonna
sell the cheap ones.

Like I said, you don't understand retail. You may only make 10 on the low
priced ovens, but if you sell 10 of those for every 1 of the high priced
oven you will still carry the low priced oven because you will make more
money than if you don't. You will still carry the high priced oven because
you can make more money than if you don't. The fact that you have 50 of the
cheap ovens on the shelf doesn't mean you will sell more of them than if you
had 40 cheap ovens and 10 of the expensive ovens sitting on the shelf.

There are many factors you don't seem to understand.




About 60 years ago a couple of men started a grocery store with one
store. Their idea was to make 5 fast penneys instead of one slow
nickle. That turned into the Food Lion chain of stores. Made lots of
people in a small town of about 20,000 people millionairs. I was a
stock boy during part of that time and remember going to almost every
item in the store (with others) and marking down each item. This was
before bar codes and every item had to be hand marked. In that town and
several small towns around there are several Food Lion stores, Wallmart,
and two other stores toget groceries at as their main item. The A@P,
Winn-Dixie chains folded years ago.


Winn-Dixie went through bankruptcy, but they didn't fold. In fact,
by local Winn-Dixie store was a 'Sweetbay' that had been a Food Lion
store that was sold out with all the others to Sweetbay, in the region.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jan 2018 19:02:10 -0000, Michael A Terrell
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Let's say I have a shop with shelf space for 500 microwaves. If
the expensive ones make me £50 and the cheap ones make me £10, I
ain't gonna sell the cheap ones.

You aren't going to sell much of anything. People will go
elsewhere to by their microwave,

No, because the moron next door is marking up the expensive ones too
much, so everyone buying decent ovens comes to me.


So, everyone else is a moron, except for you? This explains more
than you know. How will you eliminate the overhead for your store? Only
sell stolen goods? No business phone, or insurance? No employees? Maybe
a dirt floor, in a tin shack?


and take their other business with them. First of
all, it would be foolish to put out 500 units on retail shelves.

Give reasoning. There might be 500 different models, anyway it was a
figure plucked out of thin air. I'd probably be selling other devices
and wouldn't have room for 500.


Probably? You have no idea how to create a business plan. Without
one, you'll have to front all of the CASH to stock your store. No floor
plan, where the seller retains ownership of the merchandise until it's
retailed.

Secondly, a lot of people who buy high end items don't go to a retail
store. They call a service company, tell them what they want. It is
delivered, and installed.

Only if you're a complete numpty that can't plug in something as
simple as a microwave oven.


High end microwaves are often installed under a cabinet. I guess all
you've ever see are the trailer park models that are small enough to
slide under those $10 cabinets. It required drilling holes in the
cabinets to hang the oven and installing wiring for the unit so that
makes you the 'numpty', whatever the hell that is.


The old one is hauled off as part of the
price. The seller's reputation is on the line for quality, so most of
the profit comes from the labor, not the markup.

I just bought a new microwave. It was a high end model that was
closed out for $60. The original price was $160. How much profit was
lost after that $100 discount?

Who knows, they were cutting losses as they couldn't get rid of them.


Which wouldn't happen, if someone didn't overstock on high end
products that they had no chance of selling.


BTW, that is the first new microwave that I've ever bought. I've
used them for 35 years, and I only paid $2 for a good used one, once.
The rest were repaired, mostly with used parts.

I bought one for £30 once. Basic model. The rest were free second
hand. Mainly due to idiots replacing perfectly working devices. It's
the same reason 2nd hand cars are so cheap, people pay £30,000 for a
new car, then sell it for half that after a couple of years.
Complete and utter fools.


If they didn't dump their still usable vehicles, you would never be able
to own any vehicle. Some people have valid reasons to trade in a two
year old car. Some people drive for a living, and put a lot of miles on
a vehicle. Sometimes their needs change, and their vehicle no longer
fits those needs.


Another example of silly marketing. I worked at a TV shop as a
teenager. They sold new and used Color TVs, and new B&W, but no used.
The owner gave me all the B&W trade ins that I sold from my home. I
sold more TVs than he did, and most weeks I sold more in used B&W
than he did in color sets.

If he was only going to make a few dollars for each used BnW sale,
then he was right not to bother. Why waste shop space?


He made no sale, since he didn't have what they wanted. This was the
mid '60s when money was quite tight in the area. The people couldn't
afford a new B&W set, which started at over $100 for anything worth
taking home. People in management jobs at the local factories bought new
color TVs. They were still vacuum tube, and they cost most working class
people four months or more of their income. Used color TVs were more
expensive than new sets, in that they needed a lot of repairs. My dad
bought one of the first Motorola Quasar color TVs. It had the first
rectangular color CRT. A 23EGP22. It was one of the worst color CRTs
made. In today's money that set would have cost thousands of dollars.

OTOH, I sold every usable TV as fast as I hauled them home, since I
had no place to store them. He was throwing away the profit of three to
five new color sets a week, in those B&W sets he was tossing out. I made
up to $50 on the free TVs that I sold, and he lost that much. Not only
that, but I had zero overhead, because there would be one to three TVs
sitting in the old carriage house, with a dirt floor.

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 18:31:01 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

People are funny. A fellow I knew sold items at a farmers market. One
day he tried to sell cantalopes for $ .25 and not selling many, he
marked that out and put up a sign of 3/$ 1.00. Sold almost all of them
at that price even though they cost more.

I found this at a local market:
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/you-save.html
When I accosted a stocking clerk to point out the problem, he failed
to see what was wrong. When I dragged over a manager, it took about
15 seconds for his brain to engage and see the problem. He later
mentioned that it was like that for at least 2 days and nobody
noticed.

Just depends who the "You" is!! "You", the customer or "You", the
retailer!! ;-)

--
Daniel

The three Ages of Man ....

1. Man believes in Santa Claus!!
2. Man does not believe in Santa Claus!!
3. Man IS Santa Clause!!

Den 2017-12-11 kl. 05:07, skrev Mary-Jane Rottencrotch:
On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will break it?


No I run them empty when I was a repairguy/problem shooter in Whirlpool
factory here in Sweden. Sometimes running them for 10-15 minutes to
check for microwave leaks and abnormalities. So a Shorter time of
running empty will not harm your owen.