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Old December 30th 17, 05:39 AM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:59:42 -0000, Robert Baer
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 03:49:55 -0000, rickman wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it
will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question. This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens. They ran them all the time with nothing in them.
I had
always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb the
energy and mentioned that. I got a strange look from the guy.
Obviously
the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what the
ovens
were designed to get rid of.

You'd think there would be something that absorbs microwaves that miss
the food. And you'd think such a thing would have a thermal cutout.
Anybody want to try it?

IDIOT!
ain't nuttin that "absorbs" the energy.
Ask how the maggie works with highly mis-matched loads (hi SWR).


I went for an interview in a place that designed industrial strength
magnetron. There IS a block to absorb energy. A microwave oven without
one is VERY badly designed.

Rule of thumb or any commercial (= = volume) item is: for every fifty
cent cost to make, selling price must go up by five dollars (cars, toys,
etc).
Industrial grade magge-powered ovens cost a lot more than the over
the counter el-cheapos that the great unwashed buy.



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Old December 30th 17, 05:42 AM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 03:56:51 -0000, Robert Baer
wrote:

rickman wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote on 12/11/2017 11:50 AM:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 04:07:43 -0000, Mary-Jane Rottencrotch
wrote:

On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will
break it?

Derp.

It was a sensible question. This could be done by accident.

I interviewed with a place once that was doing something with testing
microwave ovens. They ran them all the time with nothing in them. I
had always read that you should not operate them with nothing to absorb
the energy and mentioned that. I got a strange look from the guy.
Obviously the energy that would be absorbed is within the limits of what
the ovens were designed to get rid of.

STUPID!

Microwave ovens *generate* (microwave) energy and cannot "get rid" of
any of that.

It boils down to how much of a load mis-match (SWR) can the magnetron
("maggie") tolerate.

Nothing will "break", but the maggie may burn out.


There is a block to absorb the energy that comes back. It should have a
thermal cutout on it.

NOTHING to "absorb", IF there is a thermal cut-out that is a BIG clue
to that fact.

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Old January 1st 18, 07:02 PM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Let's say I have a shop with shelf space for 500 microwaves. If the
expensive ones make me 50 and the cheap ones make me 10, I ain't
gonna sell the cheap ones.



You aren't going to sell much of anything. People will go elsewhere
to by their microwave, and take their other business with them. First of
all, it would be foolish to put out 500 units on retail shelves.
Secondly, a lot of people who buy high end items don't go to a retail
store. They call a service company, tell them what they want. It is
delivered, and installed. The old one is hauled off as part of the
price. The seller's reputation is on the line for quality, so most of
the profit comes from the labor, not the markup.

I just bought a new microwave. It was a high end model that was
closed out for $60. The original price was $160. How much profit was
lost after that $100 discount?

BTW, that is the first new microwave that I've ever bought. I've
used them for 35 years, and I only paid $2 for a good used one, once.
The rest were repaired, mostly with used parts.

Another example of silly marketing. I worked at a TV shop as a
teenager. They sold new and used Color TVs, and new B&W, but no used.
The owner gave me all the B&W trade ins that I sold from my home. I sold
more TVs than he did, and most weeks I sold more in used B&W than he did
in color sets.




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Old January 1st 18, 11:31 PM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

In article ,
says...

Let's say I have a shop with shelf space for 500 microwaves. If the
expensive ones make me 50 and the cheap ones make me 10, I ain't gonna
sell the cheap ones.


Like I said, you don't understand retail. You may only make 10 on the low
priced ovens, but if you sell 10 of those for every 1 of the high priced
oven you will still carry the low priced oven because you will make more
money than if you don't. You will still carry the high priced oven because
you can make more money than if you don't. The fact that you have 50 of the
cheap ovens on the shelf doesn't mean you will sell more of them than if you
had 40 cheap ovens and 10 of the expensive ovens sitting on the shelf.

There are many factors you don't seem to understand.




About 60 years ago a couple of men started a grocery store with one
store. Their idea was to make 5 fast penneys instead of one slow
nickle. That turned into the Food Lion chain of stores. Made lots of
people in a small town of about 20,000 people millionairs. I was a
stock boy during part of that time and remember going to almost every
item in the store (with others) and marking down each item. This was
before bar codes and every item had to be hand marked. In that town and
several small towns around there are several Food Lion stores, Wallmart,
and two other stores toget groceries at as their main item. The [email protected],
Winn-Dixie chains folded years ago.

Depending on the item, it is often better to stock many low dollar/
profit items and a few high dollar items.

People are funny. A fellow I knew sold items at a farmers market. One
day he tried to sell cantalopes for $ .25 and not selling many, he
marked that out and put up a sign of 3/$ 1.00. Sold almost all of them
at that price even though they cost more.

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Old January 2nd 18, 02:18 AM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 18:31:01 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

People are funny. A fellow I knew sold items at a farmers market. One
day he tried to sell cantalopes for $ .25 and not selling many, he
marked that out and put up a sign of 3/$ 1.00. Sold almost all of them
at that price even though they cost more.


I found this at a local market:
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/you-save.html
When I accosted a stocking clerk to point out the problem, he failed
to see what was wrong. When I dragged over a manager, it took about
15 seconds for his brain to engage and see the problem. He later
mentioned that it was like that for at least 2 days and nobody
noticed.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


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Old January 2nd 18, 03:05 AM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

Let's say I have a shop with shelf space for 500 microwaves. If the
expensive ones make me 50 and the cheap ones make me 10, I ain't gonna
sell the cheap ones.


Like I said, you don't understand retail. You may only make 10 on the low
priced ovens, but if you sell 10 of those for every 1 of the high priced
oven you will still carry the low priced oven because you will make more
money than if you don't. You will still carry the high priced oven because
you can make more money than if you don't. The fact that you have 50 of the
cheap ovens on the shelf doesn't mean you will sell more of them than if you
had 40 cheap ovens and 10 of the expensive ovens sitting on the shelf.

There are many factors you don't seem to understand.




About 60 years ago a couple of men started a grocery store with one
store. Their idea was to make 5 fast penneys instead of one slow
nickle. That turned into the Food Lion chain of stores. Made lots of
people in a small town of about 20,000 people millionairs. I was a
stock boy during part of that time and remember going to almost every
item in the store (with others) and marking down each item. This was
before bar codes and every item had to be hand marked. In that town and
several small towns around there are several Food Lion stores, Wallmart,
and two other stores toget groceries at as their main item. The [email protected],
Winn-Dixie chains folded years ago.



Winn-Dixie went through bankruptcy, but they didn't fold. In fact,
by local Winn-Dixie store was a 'Sweetbay' that had been a Food Lion
store that was sold out with all the others to Sweetbay, in the region.


  #77   Report Post  
Old January 2nd 18, 03:32 AM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jan 2018 19:02:10 -0000, Michael A Terrell
wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Let's say I have a shop with shelf space for 500 microwaves. If
the expensive ones make me 50 and the cheap ones make me 10, I
ain't gonna sell the cheap ones.


You aren't going to sell much of anything. People will go
elsewhere to by their microwave,


No, because the moron next door is marking up the expensive ones too
much, so everyone buying decent ovens comes to me.



So, everyone else is a moron, except for you? This explains more
than you know. How will you eliminate the overhead for your store? Only
sell stolen goods? No business phone, or insurance? No employees? Maybe
a dirt floor, in a tin shack?


and take their other business with them. First of
all, it would be foolish to put out 500 units on retail shelves.


Give reasoning. There might be 500 different models, anyway it was a
figure plucked out of thin air. I'd probably be selling other devices
and wouldn't have room for 500.



Probably? You have no idea how to create a business plan. Without
one, you'll have to front all of the CASH to stock your store. No floor
plan, where the seller retains ownership of the merchandise until it's
retailed.

Secondly, a lot of people who buy high end items don't go to a retail
store. They call a service company, tell them what they want. It is
delivered, and installed.


Only if you're a complete numpty that can't plug in something as
simple as a microwave oven.



High end microwaves are often installed under a cabinet. I guess all
you've ever see are the trailer park models that are small enough to
slide under those $10 cabinets. It required drilling holes in the
cabinets to hang the oven and installing wiring for the unit so that
makes you the 'numpty', whatever the hell that is.


The old one is hauled off as part of the
price. The seller's reputation is on the line for quality, so most of
the profit comes from the labor, not the markup.

I just bought a new microwave. It was a high end model that was
closed out for $60. The original price was $160. How much profit was
lost after that $100 discount?


Who knows, they were cutting losses as they couldn't get rid of them.



Which wouldn't happen, if someone didn't overstock on high end
products that they had no chance of selling.


BTW, that is the first new microwave that I've ever bought. I've
used them for 35 years, and I only paid $2 for a good used one, once.
The rest were repaired, mostly with used parts.


I bought one for 30 once. Basic model. The rest were free second
hand. Mainly due to idiots replacing perfectly working devices. It's
the same reason 2nd hand cars are so cheap, people pay 30,000 for a
new car, then sell it for half that after a couple of years.
Complete and utter fools.



If they didn't dump their still usable vehicles, you would never be able
to own any vehicle. Some people have valid reasons to trade in a two
year old car. Some people drive for a living, and put a lot of miles on
a vehicle. Sometimes their needs change, and their vehicle no longer
fits those needs.


Another example of silly marketing. I worked at a TV shop as a
teenager. They sold new and used Color TVs, and new B&W, but no used.
The owner gave me all the B&W trade ins that I sold from my home. I
sold more TVs than he did, and most weeks I sold more in used B&W
than he did in color sets.


If he was only going to make a few dollars for each used BnW sale,
then he was right not to bother. Why waste shop space?



He made no sale, since he didn't have what they wanted. This was the
mid '60s when money was quite tight in the area. The people couldn't
afford a new B&W set, which started at over $100 for anything worth
taking home. People in management jobs at the local factories bought new
color TVs. They were still vacuum tube, and they cost most working class
people four months or more of their income. Used color TVs were more
expensive than new sets, in that they needed a lot of repairs. My dad
bought one of the first Motorola Quasar color TVs. It had the first
rectangular color CRT. A 23EGP22. It was one of the worst color CRTs
made. In today's money that set would have cost thousands of dollars.

OTOH, I sold every usable TV as fast as I hauled them home, since I
had no place to store them. He was throwing away the profit of three to
five new color sets a week, in those B&W sets he was tossing out. I made
up to $50 on the free TVs that I sold, and he lost that much. Not only
that, but I had zero overhead, because there would be one to three TVs
sitting in the old carriage house, with a dirt floor.

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Old January 2nd 18, 09:44 AM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 18:31:01 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

People are funny. A fellow I knew sold items at a farmers market. One
day he tried to sell cantalopes for $ .25 and not selling many, he
marked that out and put up a sign of 3/$ 1.00. Sold almost all of them
at that price even though they cost more.


I found this at a local market:
http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/you-save.html
When I accosted a stocking clerk to point out the problem, he failed
to see what was wrong. When I dragged over a manager, it took about
15 seconds for his brain to engage and see the problem. He later
mentioned that it was like that for at least 2 days and nobody
noticed.

Just depends who the "You" is!! "You", the customer or "You", the
retailer!! ;-)

--
Daniel

The three Ages of Man ....

1. Man believes in Santa Claus!!
2. Man does not believe in Santa Claus!!
3. Man IS Santa Clause!!
  #79   Report Post  
Old February 13th 18, 01:16 PM posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.equipment
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Default Running an empty microwave oven

Den 2017-12-11 kl. 05:07, skrev Mary-Jane Rottencrotch:
On 2007-01-19 12:13, Peter ****er wrote:
Is it really true that turning on a microwave with nothing in it will break it?



No I run them empty when I was a repairguy/problem shooter in Whirlpool
factory here in Sweden. Sometimes running them for 10-15 minutes to
check for microwave leaks and abnormalities. So a Shorter time of
running empty will not harm your owen.



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