I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. I would
like to initially set up & test this new machine on the bench, outside
of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits
being in a case). Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions.
First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used
to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly
connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? Same with the
reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? Also, is it
necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO
pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed?
Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering.
If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be
so "grounded together"?

Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would
be greatly appreciated.

TIA

Dan

On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:54:26 -0700, D wrote:

I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. I would
like to initially set up & test this new machine on the bench, outside
of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits
being in a case). Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions.
First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used
to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly
connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? Same with the
reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? Also, is it
necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO
pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed?
Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering.
If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be
so "grounded together"?

Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would
be greatly appreciated.

TIA

Dan

It will run just fine without a case except that most cases add
additional airflow to cool the CPU and other components.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

"Obviously" (???) you're trying to avoid mounting the MOBO. But I suspect
that the additional work needed to place the MOBO on a clean, non-conductive
surface, and hold it there safely -- along with all the other components --
will be greater than the work needed to mount it safely in the case.

You might want to reconsider.

On 3/20/2011 4:51 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/20/2011 2:43 PM William Sommerwerck spake thus:

"Obviously" (???) you're trying to avoid mounting the MOBO. But I suspect
that the additional work needed to place the MOBO on a clean,
non-conductive
surface, and hold it there safely -- along with all the other
components -- will be greater than the work needed to mount it safely
in the case.

Hell, most work table tops, or a piece of cardboard, would do the trick.

The company I used to work for did this all the time when they built
systems; lay everything out on the bench with a monitor and keyboard and
power it up. Simple, so long as you use common sense and watch what
you're doing.



Thanks for the replies. I only have one ATX case, which currently
contains my working computer, which I want to have available until I get
the new bits checked out, OS loaded, up and running, etc. I have a
momentary contact switch from an older machine which should do nicely
for powering up, although I've heard of people simply using a small
screwdriver for this. I'd rather not run the risk of accidentally
shorting to the wrong terminals, though. Agreed care is in order,
probably don't want to have my pitcher of Koolaid on the same table as
the spread-out bits, but I think it should be OK.

I gather then that there's no need to ground the PSU case & other bits
together with clip leads?

Dan

I gather then that there's no need to ground the PSU case
& other bits together with clip leads?

Probably not, as the cables have the necessary ground wires.

On 3/20/2011 2:43 PM William Sommerwerck spake thus:

"Obviously" (???) you're trying to avoid mounting the MOBO. But I suspect
that the additional work needed to place the MOBO on a clean, non-conductive
surface, and hold it there safely -- along with all the other components --
will be greater than the work needed to mount it safely in the case.

Hell, most work table tops, or a piece of cardboard, would do the trick.

The company I used to work for did this all the time when they built
systems; lay everything out on the bench with a monitor and keyboard and
power it up. Simple, so long as you use common sense and watch what
you're doing.


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet

On 3/20/2011 3:15 PM D spake thus:

Thanks for the replies. I only have one ATX case, which currently
contains my working computer, which I want to have available until I get
the new bits checked out, OS loaded, up and running, etc. I have a
momentary contact switch from an older machine which should do nicely
for powering up, although I've heard of people simply using a small
screwdriver for this. I'd rather not run the risk of accidentally
shorting to the wrong terminals, though. Agreed care is in order,
probably don't want to have my pitcher of Koolaid on the same table as
the spread-out bits, but I think it should be OK.

I gather then that there's no need to ground the PSU case & other bits
together with clip leads?

No, the case isn't required as a ground. All needed grounds are already
in the connection betwixt PSU and motherboard.

Of course, you won't have an FCC-compliant setup without the case, RF
emission-wise, but no need to sweat that so long as you don't plan on
running the "naked" setup more than a short time.


--
The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization:

yo
wassup
nuttin
wan2 hang
ok
where
here
ok
l8tr
by

- from Usenet (what's *that*?)

On 3/20/2011 5:30 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/20/2011 3:15 PM D spake thus:

Thanks for the replies. I only have one ATX case, which currently
contains my working computer, which I want to have available until I
get the new bits checked out, OS loaded, up and running, etc. I have a
momentary contact switch from an older machine which should do nicely
for powering up, although I've heard of people simply using a small
screwdriver for this. I'd rather not run the risk of accidentally
shorting to the wrong terminals, though. Agreed care is in order,
probably don't want to have my pitcher of Koolaid on the same table as
the spread-out bits, but I think it should be OK.

I gather then that there's no need to ground the PSU case & other bits
together with clip leads?

No, the case isn't required as a ground. All needed grounds are already
in the connection betwixt PSU and motherboard.

Of course, you won't have an FCC-compliant setup without the case, RF
emission-wise, but no need to sweat that so long as you don't plan on
running the "naked" setup more than a short time.



Hadn't considered the RF emissions. If that pitcher of Koolaid I
mentioned starts to boil (or my garage door keeps going up and down),
I'll now something's up! ;-)

Thanks again everyone for the helpful replies.

Dan

On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:54:26 -0700, D wrote:

I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. I would
like to initially set up & test this new machine on the bench, outside
of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits
being in a case). Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions.
First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used
to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly
connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? Same with the
reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? Also, is it
necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO
pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed?
Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering.
If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be
so "grounded together"?

Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would
be greatly appreciated.

I do temporary lashups like that to test gear, need to put the mobo on a
book or something non-conducting to raise the edge where NIC and display
cards go. Don't need extra grounds. The power is momentary contact, low
voltage, shorting out the connectors in that area shouldn't do a damage as
they're either switch inputs or current limited LED outputs.

Put the hard drive where you wont bump it, probably on top of the optical
drive. When in doubt, sticky tape stuff down. You want LEDs in the power
and HD positions to get an idea what's happening. Speaker too, for the
beeps. Pair of momentary switches or wires for power and reset... I keep
an old switch + LED harness from a discarded case around for controlling a
bare mobo.

Grant.

TIA

Dan

On Mar 20, 2:54*pm, D wrote:
I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. *I
would
like to initially set up & test this new machine on the bench,
outside
of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the
bits
being in a case). *Seems straightforward, but I have a couple
questions.
* First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally
used
to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly
connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? *Same with the
reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? *Also, is it
necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the
MOBO
pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when
installed?
* Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was
wondering.
* If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc)
be
so "grounded together"?

Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way
would
be greatly appreciated.

TIA

Dan

I've built a few dozen PCs over the years. I would never bother
running the system out of the case. Mine nearly always work fine ( one
exception ) and then you'll have to unplug and mount it anyway and
plug together again. You're more likely to screw it up OUT of the case
so why take the chance and waste the time? BTW the case / power supply
I'm using now - the wife's machine - is on its 4th motherboard. The
latest change 2 weeks back took an hour - so short because the old and
new boards are nearly identical and didn't require any re-installation
of the software. The newer board can use the higher power/speed Phenom
II processor now in it.

G²

On 3/20/2011 9:31 PM, wrote:


I've built a few dozen PCs over the years. I would never bother
running the system out of the case. Mine nearly always work fine ( one
exception ) and then you'll have to unplug and mount it anyway and
plug together again. You're more likely to screw it up OUT of the case
so why take the chance and waste the time? BTW the case / power supply
I'm using now - the wife's machine - is on its 4th motherboard. The
latest change 2 weeks back took an hour - so short because the old and
new boards are nearly identical and didn't require any re-installation
of the software. The newer board can use the higher power/speed Phenom
II processor now in it.

G²

I rely quite heavily on my PC on a daily basis, and don't really want to
be without a functional machine. In order to load the OS & see if
everything is operable, I only need to connect 1 HDD, 1 DVD drive, the
vid card & monitor, keyboard, mouse & PSU. The only bit I'll need from
the existing machine is the vid card, an easy R&R in either direction.
No big deal, and if there is a problem, a DOA component, perhaps, it's a
lot less trouble finding out this way and dealing with getting a
replacement than removing the new board & completely reassembling my
working unit so I have it in the meantime.

On 3/20/2011 7:38 PM, Grant wrote:
On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:54:26 -0700, wrote:

I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. I would
like to initially set up& test this new machine on the bench, outside
of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits
being in a case). Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions.
First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used
to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly
connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? Same with the
reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? Also, is it
necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO
pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed?
Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering.
If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be
so "grounded together"?

Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would
be greatly appreciated.

I do temporary lashups like that to test gear, need to put the mobo on a
book or something non-conducting to raise the edge where NIC and display
cards go. Don't need extra grounds. The power is momentary contact, low
voltage, shorting out the connectors in that area shouldn't do a damage as
they're either switch inputs or current limited LED outputs.

Put the hard drive where you wont bump it, probably on top of the optical
drive. When in doubt, sticky tape stuff down. You want LEDs in the power
and HD positions to get an idea what's happening. Speaker too, for the
beeps. Pair of momentary switches or wires for power and reset... I keep
an old switch + LED harness from a discarded case around for controlling a
bare mobo.

Grant.

Thanks Grant, good tips ;-)

Dan

D Inscribed thus:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable
precautions against causing damage from static discharge !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote:

D Inscribed thus:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable
precautions against causing damage from static discharge !

And in your opinion, this indicates what?



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned
taking suitable precautions against causing damage
from static discharge!

It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable
precautions against causing damage from static discharge!

It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the
routine.

That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions
before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an
anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair share
of computer equipment while testing components using a motherboard set
atop a non-conductive surface.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote:

D Inscribed thus:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge !

And in your opinion, this indicates what?


Ignorance ! An awful lot of the new build failures that I see are from
people who have no understanding of how easy it is to cause damage to
components simply from not being aware that damage can occur during
handling.

It seems that all made the assumption that the OP is aware of this. The
original question suggests that the OP isn't !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge!

It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the
routine.

I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe
assumption.

That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions
before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an
anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair
share of computer equipment while testing components using a
motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface.


I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work
for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures,
particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-)

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

On 3/22/2011 12:41 PM, Baron wrote:
Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge!

It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the
routine.

I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe
assumption.

That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions
before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an
anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair
share of computer equipment while testing components using a
motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface.


I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work
for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures,
particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-)


I am assuming grounding myself on the grounded PSU case would be
sufficient, correct?

Dan

I am assuming grounding myself on the grounded PSU
case would be sufficient, correct?

It depends on what you mean by "grounding yourself". Touching the case once
might not be enough, as moving around can generate an electrostatic charge.
The safest thing is to wear a grounded conductive wristband.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:33:48 +0000, Baron wrote:

Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote:

D Inscribed thus:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge !

And in your opinion, this indicates what?


Ignorance ! An awful lot of the new build failures that I see are from
people who have no understanding of how easy it is to cause damage to
components simply from not being aware that damage can occur during
handling.

So that means since you were the only one to pick up on this that
everyone else in SER is ignorant.

Thanks for expressing your true feelings.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:41:27 +0000, Baron wrote:

Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge!

It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the
routine.

I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe
assumption.

That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions
before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an
anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair
share of computer equipment while testing components using a
motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface.


I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work
for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures,
particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-)

I've damaged things with ESD. Just because myself or anyone else didn't
bring it up in this thread until you did does not make you any better.
Comprende?

I found your reply a bit acerbic and degrading to the group denizens who
might have a few hundred years of combined electronics service
experience.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:25:32 -0700, D wrote:

On 3/22/2011 12:41 PM, Baron wrote:
Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge!

It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the
routine.

I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe
assumption.

That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions
before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an
anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair
share of computer equipment while testing components using a
motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface.


I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work
for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures,
particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-)


I am assuming grounding myself on the grounded PSU case would be
sufficient, correct?

Dan

Keeping a hand on an earth ground always helps. Don't forget before you
remove or add components to the mainboard to allow the 5 volt supply to
drain. Most mainboards have a green LED to indicate when it's safe to
make hardware changes.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

Don't forget before you remove or add components to the
mainboard to let the 5V supply drain. Most mainboards
have a green LED to indicate when it's safe to make
hardware changes...

....the light being off, being the indication.

D Inscribed thus:

On 3/22/2011 12:41 PM, Baron wrote:
Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge!

It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the
routine.

I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a
safe assumption.

That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions
before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using
an anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my
fair share of computer equipment while testing components using a
motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface.


I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of
work
for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures,
particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-)


I am assuming grounding myself on the grounded PSU case would be
sufficient, correct?

Dan

The point being that any potential difference between you and whatever
you are handling must be minimised. Its easy to generate more voltage
on your body than a semiconductor device can tolerate. Simply getting
up from a chair or opening a postal packet can often be more than
enough to generate damaging voltages.

As William mentioned anti static wrist bands help by equalising the
potential difference between two points. The nasty thing about damage
to semiconductors is that the damage doesn't always appear straight
away and can cause creeping failures.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

"Baron" wrote in message
...
Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote:

D Inscribed thus:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge !

And in your opinion, this indicates what?


Ignorance ! An awful lot of the new build failures that I see are from
people who have no understanding of how easy it is to cause damage to
components simply from not being aware that damage can occur during
handling.

It seems that all made the assumption that the OP is aware of this. The
original question suggests that the OP isn't !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.


I don't think static is a common failure mode of bipolar devices. And no,
I'm not saying it never happens, anything is possible. Just not common,
that's all.

Mark Z.

Meat Plow wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:41:27 +0000, Baron wrote:

Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge!

It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the
routine.

I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe
assumption.

That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions
before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an
anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair
share of computer equipment while testing components using a
motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface.


I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work
for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures,
particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-)

I've damaged things with ESD. Just because myself or anyone else didn't
bring it up in this thread until you did does not make you any better.
Comprende?

I found your reply a bit acerbic and degrading to the group denizens who
might have a few hundred years of combined electronics service
experience.


And hundreds of people with little or no understanding of ESD
precautions. Like the fact that a properly designed antistatic wrist
band has a 1 Meg flameproof resistor between you and ground to limit the
discharge current, and to keep some idiot from getting cocky and
electrocuting themselves.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On 3/22/2011 6:43 PM, Mark Zacharias wrote:


I don't think static is a common failure mode of bipolar devices. And
no, I'm not saying it never happens, anything is possible. Just not
common, that's all.

Mark Z.

Well, I'm not a professional like many of the people here, but I have to
say I have done a fair bit of work on the numerous PC's I have owned
(including replacing a bunch of those infamous leaky caps on a couple
MOBOs a few years back), and so far, I haven't had any difficulties.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would also think it's pretty rare.
I now live in Seattle which, being more temperate compared to the
winters when I was in central Ohio, seems relatively low-static (less
use of central heating). I haven't had any trouble yet just grounding
myself periodically and being careful.

Dan

I now live in Seattle which, being more temperate compared to
the winters when I was in central Ohio, seems relatively low-
static (less use of central heating). I haven't had any trouble
yet just grounding myself periodically and being careful.

I live outside Seattle, and can't remember the last time I built up a charge
walking across the carpet. The RH (when it isn't raining!) is relatively
low, but doesn't seem to contribute to static build-up. I never turn on the
heat, even during cold weather, which keeps the RH from being driven even
lower.

Mark Zacharias Inscribed thus:

"Baron" wrote in message
...
Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote:

D Inscribed thus:

I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking
suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge !

And in your opinion, this indicates what?


Ignorance ! An awful lot of the new build failures that I see are
from people who have no understanding of how easy it is to cause
damage to components simply from not being aware that damage can
occur during handling.

It seems that all made the assumption that the OP is aware of this.
The original question suggests that the OP isn't !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.


I don't think static is a common failure mode of bipolar devices. And
no, I'm not saying it never happens, anything is possible. Just not
common, that's all.

Mark Z.

I agree static damage to bipolar semiconductors is less likely than it
is to cmos ones since they don't have an intrinsic insulation layer to
puncture.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

D Inscribed thus:

On 3/22/2011 6:43 PM, Mark Zacharias wrote:


I don't think static is a common failure mode of bipolar devices. And
no, I'm not saying it never happens, anything is possible. Just not
common, that's all.

Mark Z.

Well, I'm not a professional like many of the people here, but I have
to say I have done a fair bit of work on the numerous PC's I have
owned (including replacing a bunch of those infamous leaky caps on a
couple MOBOs a few years back), and so far, I haven't had any
difficulties.

Good ! Its nice to hear of successful outcomes.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would also think
it's pretty rare.

Its all relative. You see only the machines that are yours. To someone
who sees 30, 40 or more machines a week it can appear quite common !

I now live in Seattle which, being more temperate compared to the
winters when I was in central Ohio, seems relatively low-static (less
use of central heating). I haven't had any trouble yet just grounding
myself periodically and being careful.

Dan

Its wise to be aware of this invisible hazard and to take precautions to
avoid causing damage.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.