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Running a PC outside of a computer case
I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. I would
like to initially set up & test this new machine on the bench, outside of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits being in a case). Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions. First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? Same with the reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? Also, is it necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed? Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering. If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be so "grounded together"? Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would be greatly appreciated. TIA Dan |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:54:26 -0700, D wrote:
I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. I would like to initially set up & test this new machine on the bench, outside of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits being in a case). Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions. First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? Same with the reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? Also, is it necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed? Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering. If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be so "grounded together"? Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would be greatly appreciated. TIA Dan It will run just fine without a case except that most cases add additional airflow to cool the CPU and other components. -- Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
"Obviously" (???) you're trying to avoid mounting the MOBO. But I suspect
that the additional work needed to place the MOBO on a clean, non-conductive surface, and hold it there safely -- along with all the other components -- will be greater than the work needed to mount it safely in the case. You might want to reconsider. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On 3/20/2011 4:51 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/20/2011 2:43 PM William Sommerwerck spake thus: "Obviously" (???) you're trying to avoid mounting the MOBO. But I suspect that the additional work needed to place the MOBO on a clean, non-conductive surface, and hold it there safely -- along with all the other components -- will be greater than the work needed to mount it safely in the case. Hell, most work table tops, or a piece of cardboard, would do the trick. The company I used to work for did this all the time when they built systems; lay everything out on the bench with a monitor and keyboard and power it up. Simple, so long as you use common sense and watch what you're doing. Thanks for the replies. I only have one ATX case, which currently contains my working computer, which I want to have available until I get the new bits checked out, OS loaded, up and running, etc. I have a momentary contact switch from an older machine which should do nicely for powering up, although I've heard of people simply using a small screwdriver for this. I'd rather not run the risk of accidentally shorting to the wrong terminals, though. Agreed care is in order, probably don't want to have my pitcher of Koolaid on the same table as the spread-out bits, but I think it should be OK. I gather then that there's no need to ground the PSU case & other bits together with clip leads? Dan |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
I gather then that there's no need to ground the PSU case
& other bits together with clip leads? Probably not, as the cables have the necessary ground wires. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On 3/20/2011 2:43 PM William Sommerwerck spake thus:
"Obviously" (???) you're trying to avoid mounting the MOBO. But I suspect that the additional work needed to place the MOBO on a clean, non-conductive surface, and hold it there safely -- along with all the other components -- will be greater than the work needed to mount it safely in the case. Hell, most work table tops, or a piece of cardboard, would do the trick. The company I used to work for did this all the time when they built systems; lay everything out on the bench with a monitor and keyboard and power it up. Simple, so long as you use common sense and watch what you're doing. -- The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago. - Usenet |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On 3/20/2011 3:15 PM D spake thus:
Thanks for the replies. I only have one ATX case, which currently contains my working computer, which I want to have available until I get the new bits checked out, OS loaded, up and running, etc. I have a momentary contact switch from an older machine which should do nicely for powering up, although I've heard of people simply using a small screwdriver for this. I'd rather not run the risk of accidentally shorting to the wrong terminals, though. Agreed care is in order, probably don't want to have my pitcher of Koolaid on the same table as the spread-out bits, but I think it should be OK. I gather then that there's no need to ground the PSU case & other bits together with clip leads? No, the case isn't required as a ground. All needed grounds are already in the connection betwixt PSU and motherboard. Of course, you won't have an FCC-compliant setup without the case, RF emission-wise, but no need to sweat that so long as you don't plan on running the "naked" setup more than a short time. -- The current state of literacy in our advanced civilization: yo wassup nuttin wan2 hang ok where here ok l8tr by - from Usenet (what's *that*?) |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On 3/20/2011 5:30 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/20/2011 3:15 PM D spake thus: Thanks for the replies. I only have one ATX case, which currently contains my working computer, which I want to have available until I get the new bits checked out, OS loaded, up and running, etc. I have a momentary contact switch from an older machine which should do nicely for powering up, although I've heard of people simply using a small screwdriver for this. I'd rather not run the risk of accidentally shorting to the wrong terminals, though. Agreed care is in order, probably don't want to have my pitcher of Koolaid on the same table as the spread-out bits, but I think it should be OK. I gather then that there's no need to ground the PSU case & other bits together with clip leads? No, the case isn't required as a ground. All needed grounds are already in the connection betwixt PSU and motherboard. Of course, you won't have an FCC-compliant setup without the case, RF emission-wise, but no need to sweat that so long as you don't plan on running the "naked" setup more than a short time. Hadn't considered the RF emissions. If that pitcher of Koolaid I mentioned starts to boil (or my garage door keeps going up and down), I'll now something's up! ;-) Thanks again everyone for the helpful replies. Dan |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:54:26 -0700, D wrote:
I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. I would like to initially set up & test this new machine on the bench, outside of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits being in a case). Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions. First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? Same with the reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? Also, is it necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed? Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering. If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be so "grounded together"? Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would be greatly appreciated. I do temporary lashups like that to test gear, need to put the mobo on a book or something non-conducting to raise the edge where NIC and display cards go. Don't need extra grounds. The power is momentary contact, low voltage, shorting out the connectors in that area shouldn't do a damage as they're either switch inputs or current limited LED outputs. Put the hard drive where you wont bump it, probably on top of the optical drive. When in doubt, sticky tape stuff down. You want LEDs in the power and HD positions to get an idea what's happening. Speaker too, for the beeps. Pair of momentary switches or wires for power and reset... I keep an old switch + LED harness from a discarded case around for controlling a bare mobo. Grant. TIA Dan |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On Mar 20, 2:54*pm, D wrote:
I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. *I would like to initially set up & test this new machine on the bench, outside of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits being in a case). *Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions. * First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? *Same with the reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? *Also, is it necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed? * Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering. * If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be so "grounded together"? Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would be greatly appreciated. TIA Dan I've built a few dozen PCs over the years. I would never bother running the system out of the case. Mine nearly always work fine ( one exception ) and then you'll have to unplug and mount it anyway and plug together again. You're more likely to screw it up OUT of the case so why take the chance and waste the time? BTW the case / power supply I'm using now - the wife's machine - is on its 4th motherboard. The latest change 2 weeks back took an hour - so short because the old and new boards are nearly identical and didn't require any re-installation of the software. The newer board can use the higher power/speed Phenom II processor now in it. G² |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
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Running a PC outside of a computer case
On 3/20/2011 7:38 PM, Grant wrote:
On Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:54:26 -0700, wrote: I've built one computer, and will soon be building another. I would like to initially set up& test this new machine on the bench, outside of a computer case (simply connecting the PSU, etc., w/o all the bits being in a case). Seems straightforward, but I have a couple questions. First, am I correct that the front panel on/off switch generally used to start the PC is simply a momentary contact switch that briefly connects the "PW+" and "PW-" terminals on the MOBO? Same with the reset/reboot switch function, using "res+" and "RES-"? Also, is it necessary to run a ground wire between the PSU case, and one of the MOBO pads where the screws go to attach the MOBO to the case when installed? Since the metal case would "ground" these 2 together, I was wondering. If this is required, should all metal cases (HDD, DVD drive, etc) be so "grounded together"? Any other helpful points about running a PC on the bench this way would be greatly appreciated. I do temporary lashups like that to test gear, need to put the mobo on a book or something non-conducting to raise the edge where NIC and display cards go. Don't need extra grounds. The power is momentary contact, low voltage, shorting out the connectors in that area shouldn't do a damage as they're either switch inputs or current limited LED outputs. Put the hard drive where you wont bump it, probably on top of the optical drive. When in doubt, sticky tape stuff down. You want LEDs in the power and HD positions to get an idea what's happening. Speaker too, for the beeps. Pair of momentary switches or wires for power and reset... I keep an old switch + LED harness from a discarded case around for controlling a bare mobo. Grant. Thanks Grant, good tips ;-) Dan |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
D Inscribed thus:
I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge ! -- Best Regards: Baron. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote:
D Inscribed thus: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge ! And in your opinion, this indicates what? -- Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned
taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge! It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:
I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge! It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine. That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair share of computer equipment while testing components using a motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface. -- Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
Meat Plow Inscribed thus:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote: D Inscribed thus: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge ! And in your opinion, this indicates what? Ignorance ! An awful lot of the new build failures that I see are from people who have no understanding of how easy it is to cause damage to components simply from not being aware that damage can occur during handling. It seems that all made the assumption that the OP is aware of this. The original question suggests that the OP isn't ! -- Best Regards: Baron. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
Meat Plow Inscribed thus:
On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge! It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine. I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe assumption. That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair share of computer equipment while testing components using a motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface. I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures, particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-) -- Best Regards: Baron. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On 3/22/2011 12:41 PM, Baron wrote:
Meat Plow Inscribed thus: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge! It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine. I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe assumption. That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair share of computer equipment while testing components using a motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface. I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures, particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-) I am assuming grounding myself on the grounded PSU case would be sufficient, correct? Dan |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
I am assuming grounding myself on the grounded PSU
case would be sufficient, correct? It depends on what you mean by "grounding yourself". Touching the case once might not be enough, as moving around can generate an electrostatic charge. The safest thing is to wear a grounded conductive wristband. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:33:48 +0000, Baron wrote:
Meat Plow Inscribed thus: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote: D Inscribed thus: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge ! And in your opinion, this indicates what? Ignorance ! An awful lot of the new build failures that I see are from people who have no understanding of how easy it is to cause damage to components simply from not being aware that damage can occur during handling. So that means since you were the only one to pick up on this that everyone else in SER is ignorant. Thanks for expressing your true feelings. -- Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:41:27 +0000, Baron wrote:
Meat Plow Inscribed thus: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge! It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine. I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe assumption. That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair share of computer equipment while testing components using a motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface. I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures, particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-) I've damaged things with ESD. Just because myself or anyone else didn't bring it up in this thread until you did does not make you any better. Comprende? I found your reply a bit acerbic and degrading to the group denizens who might have a few hundred years of combined electronics service experience. -- Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:25:32 -0700, D wrote:
On 3/22/2011 12:41 PM, Baron wrote: Meat Plow Inscribed thus: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge! It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine. I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe assumption. That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair share of computer equipment while testing components using a motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface. I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures, particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-) I am assuming grounding myself on the grounded PSU case would be sufficient, correct? Dan Keeping a hand on an earth ground always helps. Don't forget before you remove or add components to the mainboard to allow the 5 volt supply to drain. Most mainboards have a green LED to indicate when it's safe to make hardware changes. -- Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
Don't forget before you remove or add components to the
mainboard to let the 5V supply drain. Most mainboards have a green LED to indicate when it's safe to make hardware changes... ....the light being off, being the indication. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
D Inscribed thus:
On 3/22/2011 12:41 PM, Baron wrote: Meat Plow Inscribed thus: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge! It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine. I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe assumption. That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair share of computer equipment while testing components using a motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface. I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures, particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-) I am assuming grounding myself on the grounded PSU case would be sufficient, correct? Dan The point being that any potential difference between you and whatever you are handling must be minimised. Its easy to generate more voltage on your body than a semiconductor device can tolerate. Simply getting up from a chair or opening a postal packet can often be more than enough to generate damaging voltages. As William mentioned anti static wrist bands help by equalising the potential difference between two points. The nasty thing about damage to semiconductors is that the damage doesn't always appear straight away and can cause creeping failures. -- Best Regards: Baron. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
"Baron" wrote in message
... Meat Plow Inscribed thus: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote: D Inscribed thus: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge ! And in your opinion, this indicates what? Ignorance ! An awful lot of the new build failures that I see are from people who have no understanding of how easy it is to cause damage to components simply from not being aware that damage can occur during handling. It seems that all made the assumption that the OP is aware of this. The original question suggests that the OP isn't ! -- Best Regards: Baron. I don't think static is a common failure mode of bipolar devices. And no, I'm not saying it never happens, anything is possible. Just not common, that's all. Mark Z. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
Meat Plow wrote: On Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:41:27 +0000, Baron wrote: Meat Plow Inscribed thus: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:16:06 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge! It's implicit. It's assumed anyone who wants to do this knows the routine. I would suspect that based on the OP question, that might not be a safe assumption. That's what I thought also. You need to be aware of ESD precautions before you experiment with most modern electronics. I've been using an anti-static mat and wristband for a good 25 years. I've run my fair share of computer equipment while testing components using a motherboard set atop a non-conductive surface. I don't disagree. But then you and I have been doing this kind of work for a good many years. I'll bet that you will have had odd failures, particularly in the early years that you couldn't explain. ;-) I've damaged things with ESD. Just because myself or anyone else didn't bring it up in this thread until you did does not make you any better. Comprende? I found your reply a bit acerbic and degrading to the group denizens who might have a few hundred years of combined electronics service experience. And hundreds of people with little or no understanding of ESD precautions. Like the fact that a properly designed antistatic wrist band has a 1 Meg flameproof resistor between you and ground to limit the discharge current, and to keep some idiot from getting cocky and electrocuting themselves. -- You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's Teflon coated. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
On 3/22/2011 6:43 PM, Mark Zacharias wrote:
I don't think static is a common failure mode of bipolar devices. And no, I'm not saying it never happens, anything is possible. Just not common, that's all. Mark Z. Well, I'm not a professional like many of the people here, but I have to say I have done a fair bit of work on the numerous PC's I have owned (including replacing a bunch of those infamous leaky caps on a couple MOBOs a few years back), and so far, I haven't had any difficulties. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would also think it's pretty rare. I now live in Seattle which, being more temperate compared to the winters when I was in central Ohio, seems relatively low-static (less use of central heating). I haven't had any trouble yet just grounding myself periodically and being careful. Dan |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
I now live in Seattle which, being more temperate compared to
the winters when I was in central Ohio, seems relatively low- static (less use of central heating). I haven't had any trouble yet just grounding myself periodically and being careful. I live outside Seattle, and can't remember the last time I built up a charge walking across the carpet. The RH (when it isn't raining!) is relatively low, but doesn't seem to contribute to static build-up. I never turn on the heat, even during cold weather, which keeps the RH from being driven even lower. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
Mark Zacharias Inscribed thus:
"Baron" wrote in message ... Meat Plow Inscribed thus: On Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:59:29 +0000, Baron wrote: D Inscribed thus: I notice that no one in this whole thread has mentioned taking suitable precautions against causing damage from static discharge ! And in your opinion, this indicates what? Ignorance ! An awful lot of the new build failures that I see are from people who have no understanding of how easy it is to cause damage to components simply from not being aware that damage can occur during handling. It seems that all made the assumption that the OP is aware of this. The original question suggests that the OP isn't ! -- Best Regards: Baron. I don't think static is a common failure mode of bipolar devices. And no, I'm not saying it never happens, anything is possible. Just not common, that's all. Mark Z. I agree static damage to bipolar semiconductors is less likely than it is to cmos ones since they don't have an intrinsic insulation layer to puncture. -- Best Regards: Baron. |
Running a PC outside of a computer case
D Inscribed thus:
On 3/22/2011 6:43 PM, Mark Zacharias wrote: I don't think static is a common failure mode of bipolar devices. And no, I'm not saying it never happens, anything is possible. Just not common, that's all. Mark Z. Well, I'm not a professional like many of the people here, but I have to say I have done a fair bit of work on the numerous PC's I have owned (including replacing a bunch of those infamous leaky caps on a couple MOBOs a few years back), and so far, I haven't had any difficulties. Good ! Its nice to hear of successful outcomes. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would also think it's pretty rare. Its all relative. You see only the machines that are yours. To someone who sees 30, 40 or more machines a week it can appear quite common ! I now live in Seattle which, being more temperate compared to the winters when I was in central Ohio, seems relatively low-static (less use of central heating). I haven't had any trouble yet just grounding myself periodically and being careful. Dan Its wise to be aware of this invisible hazard and to take precautions to avoid causing damage. -- Best Regards: Baron. |
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