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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
Hello all...
I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. William |
#2
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
Hi William,
William R. Walsh wrote: I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. I like using fine wire for that sort of thing. Strings stretch. : Of course, you will want to think about the number you get from such a measurement. E.g., the actual belt size may be smaller than you measure to allow for a snug fit (?) Does 24.5mm sound right? http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts/penney.html http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/Pe...%28MCS%29.html |
#3
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:42:48 -0500, William R. Walsh ǝʇoɹʍ:
Hello all... I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. William String. I've used it on many turntables where the belt turned to mush. Technics tt et al were one of my responsibilities at the warranty repair center before the CD made them obsolete as far as new home audio system sales were concerned. One other thing is the width of the belt is crucial in many cases. That determines how the belt sometimes rides the motor pulley and can cause problems including dismounting of the belt and speed inconsistencies. |
#4
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
In article , "William R. Walsh" m wrote:
Hello all... I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. A turntable belt has a lot of stretch to it. You could do a Google search and find the belt like I did.............. http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/Pennys,_JC_(MCS).html |
#6
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:05:21 +0000, GregS ǝʇoɹʍ:
n article , "William R. Walsh" m wrote: Hello all... I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. A turntable belt has a lot of stretch to it. Depends on the individual TT. I've seen belts made of rubberized fabric that didn't stretch at all. My old Rek-O-Kut TT had a belt that would not stretcch at all made of some woven vulcanized rubber stuff. Any TT with a heavy platter like the Rek-O is likely to have a stiff belt. Some of the el-cheepo tables with aluminum platter will likely have a more stretchy belt but it's not etched in stone. |
#7
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On 6/3/2010 1:08 PM Jim Yanik spake thus:
(GregS) wrote in : In article , "William R. Walsh" m wrote: I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. A turntable belt has a lot of stretch to it. You could do a Google search and find the belt like I did.............. http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/Pennys,_JC_(MCS).html OK,then after that,WHERE do you buy a new belt? the store where I used to buy them locally has gone away. :-( Well, I'm lucky to live near Berkeley (yeah, *that* Berkeley), which still has an old-time electronics store (Al Lasher's Electronics). Been there since the 1940s, and they have all kinds of belts for turntables, cassettes and VCRs. I can't remember the name of the line of belts, but I could ask next time I go there. -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#8
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On 6/3/2010 11:42 AM William R. Walsh spake thus:
Hello all... I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. Instead of string, which does stretch, you might try a strip of paper. Which reminds me of an old turntable I used to have. As a kid in Tucson, not quite 20, I found a used turntable in a junk shop there. Cheap, because it had no belt. Took it home, and being the resourceful lad I was, I made a belt out of paper, the ends glued together with white glue. Worked great! No problems with wow & flutter or rumble. The paper belts lasted maybe a month or so before breaking. The bulb-shaped motor pulley kept the belt tracking true. Can't remember the brand, but it was an interesting turntable. Very simple: just a deck, a motor, a spindle with inner and outer platters, and an arm mounted on some kind of isolator. The arm had a single pivot. Worked really well. (My poor man's AR.) -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#9
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
In article , Meat Plow wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:05:21 +0000, GregS ǝʇoɹʍ: n article , "William R. Walsh" m wrote: Hello all... I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. A turntable belt has a lot of stretch to it. Depends on the individual TT. I've seen belts made of rubberized fabric that didn't stretch at all. My old Rek-O-Kut TT had a belt that would not stretcch at all made of some woven vulcanized rubber stuff. Any TT with a heavy platter like the Rek-O is likely to have a stiff belt. Some of the el-cheepo tables with aluminum platter will likely have a more stretchy belt but it's not etched in stone. The whole idea is isolation. All mine had loose belts. My best Thorens TD-125 was stretchy. Had a SME arm to install on it, but sold them both. greg |
#10
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On Fri, 04 Jun 2010 13:07:28 +0000, GregS ǝʇoɹʍ:
In article , Meat Plow wrote: On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 20:05:21 +0000, GregS ǝʇoɹʍ: n article , "William R. Walsh" m wrote: Hello all... I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. A turntable belt has a lot of stretch to it. Depends on the individual TT. I've seen belts made of rubberized fabric that didn't stretch at all. My old Rek-O-Kut TT had a belt that would not stretcch at all made of some woven vulcanized rubber stuff. Any TT with a heavy platter like the Rek-O is likely to have a stiff belt. Some of the el-cheepo tables with aluminum platter will likely have a more stretchy belt but it's not etched in stone. The whole idea is isolation. All mine had loose belts. My best Thorens TD-125 was stretchy. Had a SME arm to install on it, but sold them both. greg Loose and stretchy are different things. The belt on the Rek-O was loose too and I agree that isolation from the drive is a good idea. A stretchy belt, with more stretch than what is designed, is not good for speed stability or drift. |
#11
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:38:53 -0700, David Nebenzahl
put finger to keyboard and composed: Instead of string, which does stretch, you might try a strip of paper. Which reminds me of an old turntable I used to have. As a kid in Tucson, not quite 20, I found a used turntable in a junk shop there. Cheap, because it had no belt. Took it home, and being the resourceful lad I was, I made a belt out of paper, the ends glued together with white glue. Worked great! No problems with wow & flutter or rumble. The paper belts lasted maybe a month or so before breaking. The bulb-shaped motor pulley kept the belt tracking true. I've heard that you can use a nylon stocking as a replacement fan belt .... - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#12
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
Franc Zabkar wrote in message
... On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:38:53 -0700, David Nebenzahl put finger to keyboard and composed: Instead of string, which does stretch, you might try a strip of paper. Which reminds me of an old turntable I used to have. As a kid in Tucson, not quite 20, I found a used turntable in a junk shop there. Cheap, because it had no belt. Took it home, and being the resourceful lad I was, I made a belt out of paper, the ends glued together with white glue. Worked great! No problems with wow & flutter or rumble. The paper belts lasted maybe a month or so before breaking. The bulb-shaped motor pulley kept the belt tracking true. I've heard that you can use a nylon stocking as a replacement fan belt ... - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. I'd like to know if they make good anti-tank weapons. Knowing they are the bane of the life of drott and dozer drivers operating on council landfill dumps. Getting into the track drive they stall the engine. I imagine masses of tights and stockings fired into tank caterpillar drives would do the same. |
#13
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:15:28 +0100, "N_Cook" put
finger to keyboard and composed: Franc Zabkar wrote in message .. . On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:38:53 -0700, David Nebenzahl put finger to keyboard and composed: Instead of string, which does stretch, you might try a strip of paper. Which reminds me of an old turntable I used to have. As a kid in Tucson, not quite 20, I found a used turntable in a junk shop there. Cheap, because it had no belt. Took it home, and being the resourceful lad I was, I made a belt out of paper, the ends glued together with white glue. Worked great! No problems with wow & flutter or rumble. The paper belts lasted maybe a month or so before breaking. The bulb-shaped motor pulley kept the belt tracking true. I've heard that you can use a nylon stocking as a replacement fan belt ... I'd like to know if they make good anti-tank weapons. Knowing they are the bane of the life of drott and dozer drivers operating on council landfill dumps. Getting into the track drive they stall the engine. I imagine masses of tights and stockings fired into tank caterpillar drives would do the same. I reckon soldiers in tights and stockings would stop a tank commander in his tracks. - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#14
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
Franc Zabkar wrote: On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:15:28 +0100, "N_Cook" put finger to keyboard and composed: Franc Zabkar wrote in message .. . On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:38:53 -0700, David Nebenzahl put finger to keyboard and composed: Instead of string, which does stretch, you might try a strip of paper. Which reminds me of an old turntable I used to have. As a kid in Tucson, not quite 20, I found a used turntable in a junk shop there. Cheap, because it had no belt. Took it home, and being the resourceful lad I was, I made a belt out of paper, the ends glued together with white glue. Worked great! No problems with wow & flutter or rumble. The paper belts lasted maybe a month or so before breaking. The bulb-shaped motor pulley kept the belt tracking true. I've heard that you can use a nylon stocking as a replacement fan belt ... I'd like to know if they make good anti-tank weapons. Knowing they are the bane of the life of drott and dozer drivers operating on council landfill dumps. Getting into the track drive they stall the engine. I imagine masses of tights and stockings fired into tank caterpillar drives would do the same. I reckon soldiers in tights and stockings would stop a tank commander in his tracks. I've met WACs like that. ;-) -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
#15
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On Jun 3, 3:08*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
(GregS) wrote : In article , "William R. Walsh" m wrote: Hello all... I recently dug up an old JC Penney MCS 2230 integrated stereo, and I'd like to get the turntable going again. (Despite the source, it's a pretty nice stereo system...the radio tuner works well, it seems to have about a 40Wx2 output power rating (which seems reasonable, having looked at the internals), the cassette deck is a partial logic design with the ability to skip ahead 1, 2 or 3 songs and the turntable itself is a linear tracking type.) Anyway, before I stored it, the turntable was in need of a new belt. I set the belt aside and now it seems to be gone. I could have sworn that I read about how to determine an unknown belt size in the FAQ, but I could not find it just now. As best I remember, a string was used and placed around all the components driven by the belt, after which a measurement was taken. A turntable belt has a lot of stretch to it. You could do a Google search and find the belt like I did.............. http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/Pennys,_JC_(MCS).html OK,then after that,WHERE do you buy a new belt? the store where I used to buy them locally has gone away. :-( -- Jim Yanik jyanik at localnet dot com "O-rings" come in varied width and circ...that may work? |
#16
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On 6/5/2010 3:42 AM Franc Zabkar spake thus:
On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:15:28 +0100, "N_Cook" put finger to keyboard and composed: Franc Zabkar wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:38:53 -0700, David Nebenzahl put finger to keyboard and composed: Instead of string, which does stretch, you might try a strip of paper. Which reminds me of an old turntable I used to have. As a kid in Tucson, not quite 20, I found a used turntable in a junk shop there. Cheap, because it had no belt. Took it home, and being the resourceful lad I was, I made a belt out of paper, the ends glued together with white glue. Worked great! No problems with wow & flutter or rumble. The paper belts lasted maybe a month or so before breaking. The bulb-shaped motor pulley kept the belt tracking true. I've heard that you can use a nylon stocking as a replacement fan belt ... I'd like to know if they make good anti-tank weapons. Knowing they are the bane of the life of drott and dozer drivers operating on council landfill dumps. Getting into the track drive they stall the engine. I imagine masses of tights and stockings fired into tank caterpillar drives would do the same. I reckon soldiers in tights and stockings would stop a tank commander in his tracks. Complete with whips, gags and handcuffs ... -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#17
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
David Nebenzahl wrote: On 6/5/2010 3:42 AM Franc Zabkar spake thus: On Sat, 5 Jun 2010 11:15:28 +0100, "N_Cook" put finger to keyboard and composed: Franc Zabkar wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 21:38:53 -0700, David Nebenzahl put finger to keyboard and composed: Instead of string, which does stretch, you might try a strip of paper. Which reminds me of an old turntable I used to have. As a kid in Tucson, not quite 20, I found a used turntable in a junk shop there. Cheap, because it had no belt. Took it home, and being the resourceful lad I was, I made a belt out of paper, the ends glued together with white glue. Worked great! No problems with wow & flutter or rumble. The paper belts lasted maybe a month or so before breaking. The bulb-shaped motor pulley kept the belt tracking true. I've heard that you can use a nylon stocking as a replacement fan belt ... I'd like to know if they make good anti-tank weapons. Knowing they are the bane of the life of drott and dozer drivers operating on council landfill dumps. Getting into the track drive they stall the engine. I imagine masses of tights and stockings fired into tank caterpillar drives would do the same. I reckon soldiers in tights and stockings would stop a tank commander in his tracks. Complete with whips, gags and handcuffs ... Not even on 'Casual Fridays' in the US military. OTOH, they did sell men's pantyhose with a fly at the PX at the US Army cold weather research center and at least at Fort Wainwright (which is near Fairbanks) if not at every cold weather base. They were available in either cotton or nylon. They were very heavy material, and made to wear under your thermal underwear to prevent its seams from wearing through your skin. They were also sold to mailmen to wear with their uniform shorts. This was in the early '70s and they were expensive. It doesn't take long to decide between wearing them or getting frostbite when it is below -40 most of the winter. -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
#18
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
Hi!
Does 24.5mm sound right? Well, it seems very, very close. http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts/penney.html This one seemed to have a somewhat broken system, as the page said that the belt was in stock. Yet when I tried to order one, I was told that the belt was out of stock. Okay, whatever. Maybe that site needs a little nap? :-) http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/ (snipped) This one seemed to work OK, and was a few dollars cheaper. I usually deal with Studio Sound Electronics, as they were mentioned in the FAQ as a source for these kinds of parts, and I've been happy with everything I ever got from them. As long as I met the minimum order (so as not to get charged a few bucks extra), everything was fine. (They don't carry a 24.5mm belt.) It looks like I'm going to have to replace the tape deck belts. Everything was OK until I tested the recording mode and then the cassette belt fell off. It's totally flabby and spent. This doesn't look like fun to me. I was surprised by the uniform dust carpet (!!) inside the unit, given that there are only vents on the back. I was also surprised to see a hybrid audio power amplifier module (STK4151 II) as opposed to a discrete power amplification setup. William |
#19
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
William R. Walsh wrote in message
... Hi! Does 24.5mm sound right? Well, it seems very, very close. http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts/penney.html This one seemed to have a somewhat broken system, as the page said that the belt was in stock. Yet when I tried to order one, I was told that the belt was out of stock. Okay, whatever. Maybe that site needs a little nap? :-) http://www.vintage-electronics.cc/ (snipped) This one seemed to work OK, and was a few dollars cheaper. I usually deal with Studio Sound Electronics, as they were mentioned in the FAQ as a source for these kinds of parts, and I've been happy with everything I ever got from them. As long as I met the minimum order (so as not to get charged a few bucks extra), everything was fine. (They don't carry a 24.5mm belt.) It looks like I'm going to have to replace the tape deck belts. Everything was OK until I tested the recording mode and then the cassette belt fell off. It's totally flabby and spent. This doesn't look like fun to me. I was surprised by the uniform dust carpet (!!) inside the unit, given that there are only vents on the back. I was also surprised to see a hybrid audio power amplifier module (STK4151 II) as opposed to a discrete power amplification setup. William near enough 1 inch wide or 1 inch ring diameter ? surely not 1 inch diameter of the rubber cord . Or 24.5 cm ? |
#20
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
Hi!
Or 24.5 cm ? Seems that it's 24.5 *cm*. I wasn't paying any attention to the unit of measurement and probably just corrected it in my mind without thinking about it. William |
#21
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
William R. Walsh wrote in message
... Hi! Or 24.5 cm ? Seems that it's 24.5 *cm*. I wasn't paying any attention to the unit of measurement and probably just corrected it in my mind without thinking about it. William If you still cannot find one. Try making your own , details on my tips files below. Find a scooter/motor bike inner tube right sort of diameter , cut a strip, cut across the width to make thinner . Maybe cut from a flat sheet of .5 or 1mm rubber. The set in the "cylinder" probably no matter for a record deck, smaller one for cassette deck requires offsetting angle of the ballister pulley drive. -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://diverse.4mg.com/index.htm |
#22
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
Hi!
If you still cannot find one. I did, and it may show up here later today when the mail comes. Or so I hope. I really rather liked the paper belt idea proposed by another poster on this thread. I may have to try that if for no other reason than to say that "yes, I have made a paper belt for a turntable". Not that anyone's likely to ask. But I will know. In all seriousness, if I do have to try and make one myself, I'm sure I can puzzle through it and I appreciate the advice you have offered. William |
#23
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Unknown Turntable belt size - how to determine?
On 6/9/2010 1:16 PM William R. Walsh spake thus:
I really rather liked the paper belt idea proposed by another poster on this thread. I may have to try that if for no other reason than to say that "yes, I have made a paper belt for a turntable". Thank you. That was me. The paper belts I made lasted a surprisingly long time. If you don't use the turntable all that often you may not have to make another one for quite a while. -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
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