Alan wrote:

Then this is a recent change.

It isn't recent.

"normal" stop and go driving, short trips, etc. are
considered to be severe service by every manufacturer of
every car I've bought. And the recommendation for that is
the shorter oil-change interval.

No, it's the oil change industry, such as companies like Jiffy-Lube,
trying to convince people that nearly all driving qualifies at severe
service. The vehicle manufacturers make it pretty clear what constitutes
severe service, and it isn't stop and go driving by itself. It's solely
short trips, because the moisture in the oil never gets vaporized.

The 3000 mile myth has been passed on from generation to generation,
even as oils have progressed from single-weight non-detergent oils, to
multi-weight detergent oils.

Since more frequent oil changes don't have any negative effect, the
whole "cheap insurance" rationalization took hold. Of course if you
carry that to it's logical end, why not change the oil every 1000 miles,
or every 500 miles. There is as much evidence that 500 mile oil changes
are beneficial to engine life as there is that 3000 mile oil changes are
beneficial to engine life.

Read:

"http://www.cartalk.com/content/advice/oilchanges.html"
"http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm"
"http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=yd&subject=yd_myth&story=ydMyths &referer=advice&aff=national"
"http://nordicgroup.us/oil.htm"

"Changing the oil every 3,000 miles is a very American thing to do. In
Europe, people would look at you and think you're crazy. It's a good
example of how the oil industry (well, at least certain parts thereof)
have kept the consumer uninformed/uneducated in regards to the true
quality and performance of their product."

Madness wrote:

Hey, I still have an IBM Model "M" 101 "clicky" from the original PS/2
line. Has some weight to it and won't slide around while typing (which
the main thing I hate about those modern "cheapies").

Me too. Every once in a while we find one at a yard sale, so we probably
have a lifetime supply. They feel and sound good. What could be better?

Also, a Microsoft
optical mouse which is about 8 or 9 years old and still going strong.

I had a [yard sale, not new] M$ mouse that stopped working, and have used
nothing but the cheap Inland optical mice from Fry's for several years. The
one I used most started responding erratically to wheel-turning, so I
replaced it with a cheap A4Tech equivalent, also from Fry's. So far, so good.

And speaking of Fry's: They sent me a check themselves when the company
weaseled out of the properly-completed rebate. They claimed that the
'Rebate Receipt' was improper and that I should have sent the regular
receipt. Fry's handled it properly. Screw K-World.

--
Cheers,
Bev
*********************************************
Not all cultures are equal. If they were, we
would have a lot more cannibal restaurants.

SMS wrote:
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

I consider about 75-80% of in-town driving (and in-region in our area)
to be "severe service".

You may consider it severe, but the manufacturer doesn't. There is no
evidence that doing twice as many oil changes as the manufacturer
recommends has any effect on engine life. It doesn't really hurt
anything to change the oil at 3000 miles, or 1000 miles for that matter,
but all the independent tests of engine wear versus oil change interval
have proved that there is no advantage to following the severe service
interval for non-severe service.

Hang on. Theres another factor here - total cost of ownership. Given
that a large proportion of "ordinary" vehicle sales are to fleets, then
its a powerful argument for Brand A over Brand B if the Brand A
service interval is 7,000miles instead of 5,000. Given that most cars
are changed over every 2-3 years (or before the warranty expires) then
it wont matter to the original owner if you change the oil AT ALL or
not - even with 50,000 miles on it.

BUT if you keep your vehicles long term, then more regular oil changes
are indeed a good idea.

Crikey - how much is 4 litres of oil and a filter anyway?.......

And for Rod to have a say - I maintain the sun will rise tomorrow - you
disagree, in your experience, of course....

Andrew VK3BFA.

"The Real Bev" wrote in message
...

And speaking of Fry's: They sent me a check themselves when the company
weaseled out of the properly-completed rebate. They claimed that the
'Rebate Receipt' was improper and that I should have sent the regular
receipt. Fry's handled it properly. Screw K-World.

Shades of OfficeMax!

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
ups.com...

BUT if you keep your vehicles long term, then more regular oil changes
are indeed a good idea.

Crikey - how much is 4 litres of oil and a filter anyway?.......

We might all be better off if most of us drove Fiat 500s!

Andrew VK3BFA wrote
SMS wrote
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote

I consider about 75-80% of in-town driving
(and in-region in our area) to be "severe service".

You may consider it severe, but the manufacturer doesn't. There is no
evidence that doing twice as many oil changes as the manufacturer
recommends has any effect on engine life. It doesn't really hurt
anything to change the oil at 3000 miles, or 1000 miles for that
matter, but all the independent tests of engine wear versus oil
change interval have proved that there is no advantage to following
the severe service interval for non-severe service.

Hang on. Theres another factor here - total cost of ownership.
Given that a large proportion of "ordinary" vehicle sales are to fleets,

Wrong.

then its a powerful argument for Brand A over Brand B if
the Brand A service interval is 7,000miles instead of 5,000.

Wrong, and you say why its wrong in the next sentence.

Given that most cars are changed over every 2-3 years
(or before the warranty expires) then it wont matter to
the original owner if you change the oil AT ALL or
not - even with 50,000 miles on it.

Great footshot.

BUT if you keep your vehicles long term, then
more regular oil changes are indeed a good idea.

Yes, but you havent established that the
lower rate will see any long term problem.

Crikey - how much is 4 litres of oil and a filter anyway?.......

Quite a bit if you double the frequency and pay someone to do it.

And for Rod to have a say - I maintain the sun will rise
tomorrow - you disagree, in your experience, of course....

You'll end up completely blind if you dont watch out, bludger.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:10:24 -0600, Alan wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:21:05 -0800, SMS
wrote:

Alan wrote:

Then this is a recent change.

It isn't recent.

"normal" stop and go driving, short trips, etc. are
considered to be severe service by every manufacturer of
every car I've bought. And the recommendation for that is
the shorter oil-change interval.

No, it's the oil change industry, such as companies like Jiffy-Lube,
trying to convince people that nearly all driving qualifies at severe
service. The vehicle manufacturers make it pretty clear what constitutes
severe service, and it isn't stop and go driving by itself. It's solely
short trips, because the moisture in the oil never gets vaporized.

The 3000 mile myth has been passed on from generation to generation,
even as oils have progressed from single-weight non-detergent oils, to
multi-weight detergent oils.

Maybe in your infinite understanding of such things it's a
myth. However it is printed in black and white in every new
car manual I've gotten in the last 20 years with I bought a
new car.

I grant you that there are lots of companies that will make
more money if an owner chooses the shorter intervals, but I
doubt if the automobile manufacturer would keep putting it
in their new car manuals if there wasn't some truth to it!


Alan


Manufacturer's recommended oil change interval for the Peugeot 407 is 20,000
miles.


Mark Rand
RTFM

Alan wrote in message
The 3000 mile myth has been passed on from generation to generation,
even as oils have progressed from single-weight non-detergent oils, to
multi-weight detergent oils.

Maybe in your infinite understanding of such things it's a
myth. However it is printed in black and white in every new
car manual I've gotten in the last 20 years with I bought a
new car.

Most new cars recommend 3000 miles under severe conditions. For normal
use, 7500 is typical today as stated in my GM and Hyundai manuals. I've
been doing that in my cars for years. Works well for my driving conditions.
The oil change places give you that little sticker for 3000 miles under any
condition because they want to sell oil changes.

The manual also states that you should use genuine GM washer fluid too. Do
you?

Rod Speed wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA wrote
SMS wrote
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote


Sadly, I do despair at the lack of basic intellectual ability and
elementary social skills of some of my own countrymen - fortunately,
Rod is a special case and beyond being irritating is of no real
consequence in any society. Its like wrestling with a bagful of snakes
- interesting at first as a challenge, but eventually tiring.

Rod has achieved notoriety - his "insults" have been immortalized in
its own website at

http://www.sensationbot.com/chat-rodspeed.html

where you can type in a phrase and get a "Roddism" in return. Saves
time replying to his ravings.

Rod, some stats. According to your profile, you have

posted to 150 groups
total of 13666 messages
in the period Feb 2006 Jan 2007 - and this is just for Google groups!.
- an average of 37 per day, and thats assuming there is no down
time.....You spend too much time in front of your PC - DO try and get
out a bit more....

Perusal of these groups reveals you are an expert (or at least have a
strong "opinion" ) in every subject you choose to pursue. And you
manage to annoy an enormous number of people. Most of your posts are
late at night, or early morning. Do you have a job? - I did ask this
before, but as usual you never answer a direct question, or provide
any references to back up your "assertions."

Argument/Debate is more than saying "Your wrong", "no it isnt" , and
being abusive, - it is expected that you provide some referenced
confirmation of your claims.

I am thankful that, due to your obvious lack of social skills, you will
not get the chance to breed and thus pollute the gene pool any further.
At your end, its already too shallow to have long term viability.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Andrew VK3BFA desperately
attempted to bull**** its way out of its predicament and
fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.

No surprise that it got the bums rush, right out the door.

Even Telstra had noticed what a completely unemployable dud it was.

Rod Speed wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA desperately
attempted to bull**** its way out of its predicament and
fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.

Which function key is programmed with that snappy come back - you use
it a lot. Its lost any pretension to wit through overuse.
(references supplied on request)

No surprise that it got the bums rush, right out the door.

Even Telstra had noticed what a completely unemployable dud it was.

Well, it took them 20 years, (got a nice medal for it too - wanna see
it?) I got to management level - took a package, paid the mortgage
off, paid for 2 years full time at school, paid for a trip to
Europe..., set up my own business. I do miss the insane disputes over
parking spaces though - but not very much...

BTW - Its Telecom, Rod. Is your long term memory shot? - you ARE taking
your medication regularly I hope?- the psychiatric response team is
getting annoyed over the number of call outs they have to make to
you...(another prime example of the failure of de-institutionalization)
Your absences from the boards are about 3-4 times a year for about a
week - time it takes to stabilize your medication as an inpatient and
let you back on the street......

Oh - you didnt answer - do you have a job? Did you have a job? Will you
ever get a job? How do you cope with the Centrelink (Social Security
for our American cousins) review forms - have you got a case worker to
help you fill them in?

Andrew VK3BFA.

Rod Speed wrote:
Ross Herbert wrote:

Personally, I am all in favour of repairability if for no other
reason than it saves energy and resources across the board.

Its a tiny part of world energy consumption.

Do you have figures or reference to show that this endless manufacture
and replace with new process is a tiny part of world energy
consumption? I'd just assumed it was a major energy consumer.


NT

wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:


Personally, I am all in favour of repairability if for no other
reason than it saves energy and resources across the board.


Its a tiny part of world energy consumption.


Do you have figures or reference to show that this endless manufacture
and replace with new process is a tiny part of world energy
consumption? I'd just assumed it was a major energy consumer.


NT


At least WRT automobiles, we could save a lot of energy by repairing
existing ones. I'm not sure what exactly it "costs" in energy to build
a car, but I seem to recall that it's something on the order of that
consumed by 10 years of regular use.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Mark Rand wrote:



Manufacturer's recommended oil change interval for the Peugeot 407 is 20,000
miles.


Probably why they don't sell them in the 'States'


LA

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Ross Herbert wrote

Personally, I am all in favour of repairability if for no other
reason than it saves energy and resources across the board.

Its a tiny part of world energy consumption.

Do you have figures or reference to show that this endless manufacture
and replace with new process is a tiny part of world energy consumption?

Dont need them. Even the most superficial analysis of the
energy use of a household will show that the energy use for
heating, cooling, transport etc leaves the energy use for the
manufacture of domestic appliance replacement for dead.

I'd just assumed it was a major energy consumer.

More fool you.

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
Andrew VK3BFA desperately
attempted to bull**** its way out of its predicament and
fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.

No surprise that it got the bums rush, right out the door.

Even Telecom had noticed what a completely unemployable dud it was.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Most new cars recommend 3000 miles under severe conditions.

Not true.

Some recommend 3000. A lot more recommend 5000 for severe, 7500 for
"normal."

The real problem is that the oil change industry has apparently
convinced many people that just about all driving falls into the severe
service category, even though the manufacturer makes it perfectly clear
what they consider severe service, and in reality few people fall into
that category.

Since there's no real downside, at least for the vehicle, in having
unnecessary oil changes, the "cheap insurance" excuses is regularly
trotted out.

Are you going to believe Honda and Toyota, two companies that are
absolutely anal about their reputation for long term dependability, or
are you going to believe Jiffy Lube?

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:11:48 -0800, SMS
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Most new cars recommend 3000 miles under severe conditions.

Not true.

Some recommend 3000. A lot more recommend 5000 for severe, 7500 for
"normal."

The real problem is that the oil change industry has apparently
convinced many people that just about all driving falls into the severe
service category, even though the manufacturer makes it perfectly clear
what they consider severe service, and in reality few people fall into
that category.

Since there's no real downside, at least for the vehicle, in having
unnecessary oil changes, the "cheap insurance" excuses is regularly
trotted out.

Are you going to believe Honda and Toyota, two companies that are
absolutely anal about their reputation for long term dependability, or
are you going to believe Jiffy Lube?

A person forks over $30,000.00 or $40,000.00 to one of those dealers
you speak of who says from behind his $500 suit, "Nah, just change
the oil every 5,000 miles and don't worry about. Excuse me, I've got
to talk to a customer"
Same person pulls into a Jiffy Lube maybe 4 times a year and hears
an earnest kid in greasy overalls say "Oil and filter changed, added 2
pounds of air to front left and right rear tire, air filter ok, trans
fluid ok, topped off the washer fluid. You might want to get your
serpentine belt checked, sir. It's frayed. That'll be $21.99, sir.
Thank you for using Jiffy Lube. See you in 3 months or 3000 miles."

What's the better experience?
Now it's time for you to trot out the tales of oil streaks on the road
leaving Jiffy Lube and a blown engine because the kid cross threaded
the drain plug.
You got your stories, I got mine.

--Vic

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 08:07:28 -0600, Leonardo wrote:

Mark Rand wrote:



Manufacturer's recommended oil change interval for the Peugeot 407 is 20,000
miles.


Probably why they don't sell them in the 'States'


LA


Maybe you need to look for automobiles with decent engines then :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:25:13 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:11:48 -0800, SMS
wrote:

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Most new cars recommend 3000 miles under severe conditions.

Not true.

Some recommend 3000. A lot more recommend 5000 for severe, 7500 for
"normal."

The real problem is that the oil change industry has apparently
convinced many people that just about all driving falls into the severe
service category, even though the manufacturer makes it perfectly clear
what they consider severe service, and in reality few people fall into
that category.

Since there's no real downside, at least for the vehicle, in having
unnecessary oil changes, the "cheap insurance" excuses is regularly
trotted out.

Are you going to believe Honda and Toyota, two companies that are
absolutely anal about their reputation for long term dependability, or
are you going to believe Jiffy Lube?

A person forks over $30,000.00 or $40,000.00 to one of those dealers
you speak of who says from behind his $500 suit, "Nah, just change
the oil every 5,000 miles and don't worry about. Excuse me, I've got
to talk to a customer"
Same person pulls into a Jiffy Lube maybe 4 times a year and hears
an earnest kid in greasy overalls say "Oil and filter changed, added 2
pounds of air to front left and right rear tire, air filter ok, trans
fluid ok, topped off the washer fluid. You might want to get your
serpentine belt checked, sir. It's frayed. That'll be $21.99, sir.
Thank you for using Jiffy Lube. See you in 3 months or 3000 miles."

What's the better experience?
Now it's time for you to trot out the tales of oil streaks on the road
leaving Jiffy Lube and a blown engine because the kid cross threaded
the drain plug.
You got your stories, I got mine.

--Vic


http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...be_damage.html

Raymond of Warminster PA (10/31/05)
My 2001 Camry was in the shop for an oil change on Sept. 06, 2005. Their
shop order indicated date of service as Aug.31. After driving to the
Jersey Shore on Wed., Sept. 07 and subsequent driving on Thurs. and
Friday I noticed a strange texture to the rear pasenger mat. On checking
further I found the floor flooded as was the case under the front
pasenger mat. It took two days of mopping and shop vac. at home to suck
up the water. On taking the car to my mechanic I learned that the air
conditioner drain hose had been deliberately shoved up into the car body
and that was the cause of the flood. It was fished down and the problem
was eleminated. The mechanic asured me that this could have only been
done deliberately as the hose was pushed well back from the opening.

I rather like this one....

"They also had poor customer service one of the employee that started on
my car went over to another customer's car and started smoking
marijuanna i made sure he didnt get back under my hood what good that
did it still got messed up all i want is my car fix I am a single
working mother attending school and it is hard trying to get around
without my own transportation I have to pay someone everyday to take me
around and i have missed days off work because i couldnt find someone I
call the region office and they told me I would hear from a distrct
manager I havent heard from one yet Would you please help me to get this
resolved.........

Gunner

"Deep in her heart, every moslem woman yearns to show us her tits"
John Griffin

Homer J Simpson wrote:

"The Real Bev" wrote:

And speaking of Fry's: They sent me a check themselves when the company
weaseled out of the properly-completed rebate. They claimed that the
'Rebate Receipt' was improper and that I should have sent the regular
receipt. Fry's handled it properly. Screw K-World.

Shades of OfficeMax!

Man, what a memory! I'd forgotten that.

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================== ==================
His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid curiosity.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
Alan wrote in message
The 3000 mile myth has been passed on from generation to generation,
even as oils have progressed from single-weight non-detergent oils, to
multi-weight detergent oils.

Maybe in your infinite understanding of such things it's a
myth. However it is printed in black and white in every new
car manual I've gotten in the last 20 years with I bought a
new car.

Most new cars recommend 3000 miles under severe conditions. For normal
use, 7500 is typical today as stated in my GM and Hyundai manuals. I've
been doing that in my cars for years. Works well for my driving conditions.
The oil change places give you that little sticker for 3000 miles under any
condition because they want to sell oil changes.


If you tell people 3000, a lot of them will start thinking about it at
3500 and get around to doing it at 5000 or 6000. If you say 7500, they
get around to it at 10,000 to 12,000. So if the ideal is to change it
at 7,500, your better off saying 3000, so most of the people will
change it before 7,500. Saves a lot of hasle in the long run.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message

That'll be $21.99, sir.
Thank you for using Jiffy Lube. See you in 3 months or 3000 miles."

He make shis living changing oil. What do you expect him to say?


What's the better experience?
You got your stories, I got mine.

The better experience is my own evaluation of my own driving habits and
conditions as well as reading what the manufacturer of the engine and
testing laboratories conclude. Short distance driving in cold weather?
Certainly 3000 miles is a good idea. Longer distances in temperate
climates? Easily 7500 miles. Having put 200,000 miles on cars with that
change interval, I'd conclude it works for me. Only car I ever had an oil
related problem was one I bought used with 100,000 miles on it and it was
the GM 3.8 V-6 of the early 80's. I have no idea how, if ever, the oil was
changed in it.

Andrew VK3BFA ha escrito:
Rod Speed wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA wrote
SMS wrote
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote


Sadly, I do despair at the lack of basic intellectual ability and
elementary social skills of some of my own countrymen - fortunately,
Rod is a special case and beyond being irritating is of no real
consequence in any society. Its like wrestling with a bagful of snakes
- interesting at first as a challenge, but eventually tiring.

Rod has achieved notoriety - his "insults" have been immortalized in
its own website at

http://www.sensationbot.com/chat-rodspeed.html

where you can type in a phrase and get a "Roddism" in return. Saves
time replying to his ravings.


Don´t forget this other website:

http://www.ozdebate.net/rod.html

seems like the guy is a legend. I wonder if he speaks other languages
besides english... if he can annoy the english speaker world, I guess
he will have the talent to show his "gifted skills" in other languages
too.

lsmartino wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA ha escrito:
Rod Speed wrote:
Andrew VK3BFA wrote
SMS wrote
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote


Sadly, I do despair at the lack of basic intellectual ability and
elementary social skills of some of my own countrymen - fortunately,
Rod is a special case and beyond being irritating is of no real
consequence in any society. Its like wrestling with a bagful of
snakes - interesting at first as a challenge, but eventually tiring.

Rod has achieved notoriety - his "insults" have been immortalized in
its own website at

http://www.sensationbot.com/chat-rodspeed.html

where you can type in a phrase and get a "Roddism" in return. Saves
time replying to his ravings.


Don´t forget this other website:

http://www.ozdebate.net/rod.html

seems like the guy is a legend.

I am indeed. Eat your heart out, wogchild.

I wonder if he speaks other languages besides english...

Nope, never bothered with the babble you stupid wogs get up to.

if he can annoy the english speaker world,

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, wogchild.

I guess he will have the talent to show his "gifted skills" in other languages too.

Guess again, wogchild.

Let´s do an experiment === Rod vs. Rod !!


Rod Speed ha escrito:
lsmartino wrote:

Don´t forget this other website:

http://www.ozdebate.net/rod.html

seems like the guy is a legend.

I am indeed. Eat your heart out, wogchild.


Keep furiously sweeping the awkward evidence under the carpet.


I wonder if he speaks other languages besides english...

Nope, never bothered with the babble you stupid wogs get up to.


It's a tad more complicated than that.


if he can annoy the english speaker world,

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, wogchild.


Fraid not.

I guess he will have the talent to show his "gifted skills" in other languages too.

Guess again, wogchild.

You really are a juvenile little child.




P.S: Reply constructed using http://www.ozdebate.net/rod.html

Vic Smith wrote:

You got your stories, I got mine.

They're not my stories. There are regularly warnings by automotive
columnists and mechanics to avoid the quick-change oil change places
like the plague, as well as the horror stories of customers that have
had their vehicles damaged by these places.

I'm not risking my vehicle to a place like that. I'll bring it to a
reputable independent mechanic, do it myself, or go to the dealer if
they have a good price. Usually the Toyota dealer has an oil change deal
that is cheaper than Jiffy Lube, plus they are using better quality
filters, and more experienced mechanics.

scenario_dave wrote:

If you tell people 3000, a lot of them will start thinking about it at
3500 and get around to doing it at 5000 or 6000. If you say 7500, they
get around to it at 10,000 to 12,000. So if the ideal is to change it
at 7,500, your better off saying 3000, so most of the people will
change it before 7,500. Saves a lot of hasle in the long run.

LOL. Maybe some people are like this. I try to do the maintenance as
close as possible to the proper interval, so I can keep on schedule over
the long haul.

It's becoming moot as more and more vehicles have service interval
indicators that are based on driving conditions, temperature, etc.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
That'll be $21.99, sir.
Thank you for using Jiffy Lube. See you in 3 months or 3000 miles."

He make shis living changing oil. What do you expect him to say?


What's the better experience?
You got your stories, I got mine.

The better experience is my own evaluation of my own driving habits and
conditions as well as reading what the manufacturer of the engine and
testing laboratories conclude. Short distance driving in cold weather?

Yes, if you _only_ do short distances, you build up moisture in the oil
system which doesn't get vaporized by engine heat. But short trips with
occasional longer trips and freeway driving gets rid of that moisture.

All the experts agree that 3000 mile oil changes are almost always
unnecessary for normal service.

There are sometimes side benefits to the 3000 mile changes, such as when
people have an oil burning engine yet never check or top off their oil.
The 3000 mile oil changes mean that they'll have a lot more oil in their
engine, on average, than if they did 7500 mile changes. There were some
Saturn engines where the oil needed to be exceptionally clean because it
was used to hydraulically to tension the timing chain. Varnish build-up
in the timing chain tensioner bore could cause the tensioner mechanism
to malfunction, and lead to timing chain failure. But these sorts of
issues are pretty rare.

Some stupid wog claiming to be
lsmartino wrote
just the puerile **** you'd expect from a stupid wog.

Rod Speed ha escrito:
Some stupid wog claiming to be
lsmartino wrote

Hehehehehehe! The experiment is going well, let´s try it again.



just the puerile **** you'd expect from a stupid wog.

The rule of holes - when you're in one, you should stop digging.

P.S: Reply created using http://www.ozdebate.net/rod.html

Ignoramus16071 wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:04:59 GMT, James Sweet
wrote:
Ignoramus16071 wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:41:59 GMT, James Sweet
wrote:

Ignoramus16071 wrote:

TO the skeptics of the "planned obsolescence" and "designed to fail"
theory, I have a simple suggestion.

Take household machines from trash and take them apart. Look for
signs of above mentioned behaviours -- and you will find plenty. Such
as parts that are obviously designed to fail.


i


Designed to fail, or designed to be cheap? When you see these "designed
to fail" parts, does it often appear that they could be made to last
much better for the same cost?


Well, let me give you one example. We had a electric tea kettle. It
broke the hinge on the lid. Postmortem indicated that it broke because
it lacked material around the hinge. At the cost of extra 1-2 cents,
they could have a few mm more plastic around the hinges so that they
hold up better.

The extra cost is minuscule.

Another example, I received a KMart wallet as a gift and it is
unusable -- the credit card pockets are too tight and it is generally
too tight for money also(I like to carry a few hundred $$ in cash etc,
which does not affect credit card pockets). Again, at the cost of
perhaps 10 cents per wallet, it could have been made into a better
wallet.

If anyone has suggestions for a really good three section leather
wallet, I will appreciate.

i

There's the key, an extra few cents. 2 cents times 2 million kettles and
you're talking 40 grand, that's not minuscule, even for a big company.

10 cents is even more significant, when you're manufacturing millions of
things, pennies *do* matter. You can get something that cost an extra 10
cents to make, but it will cost you an extra 10 bucks to buy and the
average consumer not knowing the difference will buy the cheaper one.

It's all about offering the lowest price and making the most profit per
sale, they don't intentionally try to make it break, they just don't
care if it does so long as it lasts through the warranty.

If they know what happens with their product -- and they do -- then it
IS intentional.

If I set a fire on my kitchen floor, hoping to cook a pig that would
not fit in a stove, knowing that my house would burn down, and the
house burns down, the result is intentional -- even though the fire
was started to cook a pig. Same here -- if they try to save 2 cents
and make products that they KNOW do not perform their intended
purpose, then making substandard products is intentional on their
part.

That's why I do not patronize cutthroat retailers such as Walmart.
Because they are looking to screw ME by selling products that do not
perform their intended purpose (and by forcing manufacturers to make
such via abusive methods). I do not like such capitalists and to not
want to give them any of my business. I would rather pay 3x more to
businesses such as McMaster-Carr, or Bosch, etc, to get a product that
actually works.

My experience with Harbor Freight has been spotty, but most of the
products that I bought from them, do work as advertised.

i

I just recently bought a hand-held spothight with a 6V valve-regulated
lead-acid battery. (bought at Lidl in the UK.) It is Osram brand but who
knows who actually designed or made it. Out of curiosity I opened it up
and measured the voltage as it was charging the battery. The 6V (3 cell)
battery gets charged to about 8.5V with the supplied charger so that would
kill the battery pretty quickly. The proper charging voltage is even
marked clearly on the Chinese-made battery. The charger is basically just
a resistor and an unregulated power supply. I know that say a LM317 would
be too expensive for these guys but there would surely be a cheaper circuit
e.g. with a zener diode and a transistor that could clamp the charging
voltage to a sensible limit, for 10c or less. In my own case, I will
charge it with a regulated power supply instead, but it makes me sad to
think that the rest of these things will be destroyed quite soon by
overcharging, and since the battery is not easily removable from the casing
of the torch, I guess that approximately none of them will be recycled when
they stop working. Even if they were "recycled", I have heard some bad
things about the way lead-acid battery recycling is done these days, so it
would be much better if someone had at least been able to use it for a few
years first.

That is one good thing about lithium batteries, the appliance manufacturers
are so ****-scared of abusing the batteries, causing a fire and getting
sued that they usually do put a half-decent charger in the products, even
if that does cost them the extra 10c.

Chris

"Ignoramus16071" wrote in message
...

Another example, I received a KMart wallet as a gift and it is
unusable -- the credit card pockets are too tight and it is generally
too tight for money also(I like to carry a few hundred $$ in cash etc,
which does not affect credit card pockets). Again, at the cost of
perhaps 10 cents per wallet, it could have been made into a better
wallet.


Obviously you got the wallet intended for tightwads. :-)

I got a new wallet for Christmas wherer some compartments were
a bit too tight when I loaded them with the various assorted plastic
cards, ATM, credit, membership, insurance, driver's license, etc.

I ended up trimming some of the cards with scissors.
Now they fit ok. No harm done to the cards.

If anyone has suggestions for a really good three section leather
wallet, I will appreciate.

There's your problem! A single-fold wallet is a lot less bulky.
I had a 3-section wallet and hated it. It felt like I was carrying
a baseball in my pocket.

Don

Some stupid wog claiming to be
lsmartino wrote
just the puerile **** you'd expect from a stupid wog.

It has been found that the subject under study, in this case Rod Speed
has a compulsion to answer to anything, even to himself :-D


Rod Speed ha escrito:
Some stupid wog claiming to be
lsmartino wrote
just the puerile **** you'd expect from a stupid wog.

Says SFA about your pathetically childish remark. (R. Speed trademark
quote)




See you never, loser... hehehehehehehehe!

Some stupid wog claiming to be
lsmartino wrote
just the puerile **** you'd expect from a stupid wog.

lsmartino wrote:
It has been found that the subject under study, in this case Rod Speed
has a compulsion to answer to anything, even to himself :-D



I am starting to wonder about this - remember the "Turing Test" for AI
- you have a conversation, via a teleprinter, with the "robot" in
another room. If you cant distinguish the reply from that of a person,
then it passes the Turing Test.

Your testing seems to show that Rod might, indeed, be a robot. A bloody
good one - had me fooled for along time.

But the inability, or unwillingness, to answer ANY direct questions
seems to suggest it is an AI program. Probably someones thesis, and
they are keeping track of how much "conversation" Rod manages to
continue.

If its a good one, it should have some sort of adaptive learning
algorithm built in......

Interesting.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Some gutless ****wit desperately cowering behind
Andrew VK3BFA desperately
attempted to bull**** its way out of its predicament and
fooled absolutely no one at all, as always.

No surprise that it got the bums rush, right out the door.

Even Telecom had noticed what a completely unemployable dud it was.

Alan wrote:

Oh sure. They all agree.

Except for my owner's manual.

LOL.

"Especially since normal city driving is, according to your
owner's manual "extreme service" and they recommend you
change your oil every 3,000 miles. . . ."

At least you no longer believe that everyone else's owner's manual is
like yours.

So what kind of vehicle do you have, and/or what does your owner's
manual say? I've never seen an owner's manual that defined severe
service as any service that included short trips, unless there were
never any longer trips (which heat up the engine and oil hot enough to
vaporize the moisture).

Toyota:
------
"Repeated short trips (less than 8 km) in freezing conditions."

Nissan:
------
"Repeatedly driving short distances."

Honda:
-----
"Driving less than 5 miles (8 km) per trip or in freezing temperatures."


Don't fall for the oil industry's attempt to redefine "severe" service
to fit their own agenda.

"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in
oups.com:

But the inability, or unwillingness, to answer ANY direct questions
seems to suggest it is an AI program.

Isn't "AI" the acronym for "Annoying Idiot"? grin