Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,
--
DaveC

This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group

In article .net, wrote:
Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,


For portable use, probably not. Some might not
find quality their main concern. For ruggedness, I don't know who wins.
I ordinarily would not use a Fluke as I find them expensive, but
if I carried something with me all the time, it would have to be good,
and price would not be as much concern, unless I kept loosing track of
where I sat it down.

greg

Portable use, true RMS, V-O-A, would like C & L but not necessary. Rugged
build would be nice.
--
DaveC

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Please reply in the news group

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:13:09 -0700, DaveC put finger
to keyboard and composed:

Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,

I just use any cheapie with the features that I need. I have built a
5.000 +/- 0.001 volt precision reference which I take to the store to
do my own "select-on-test".

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.e...e=source&hl=en
http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX6325-MAX6350.pdf

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

DaveC wrote in
news.net:

Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like
having choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,

HP14401A was a great DMM,6.5 digit.It's now the Agilent 34401A,I believe.
http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-11250.0/pc.html


Keithley makes some DMMs.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

DaveC wrote:
Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?


I hear a lot of good things about protek. They have a lot of products
with similar specs to Fluke's. I don't own one yet.. I'm still
agonizing over spending the extra cash on the Fluke myself.

"DaveC" wrote in message
news.net...
Portable use, true RMS, V-O-A, would like C & L but not necessary. Rugged
build would be nice.

"Meterman" (http://www.metermantesttools.com/mmu...me/default.htm) is
Fluke, I mean Philips, I mean... whoever owns them these day's own line of
inexpensive meters. I bought one for my brother, and it seems pretty nice.

I've had lots of cheap meters and a few Flukes, and so far the only one I ever
had die was a cheapie that lived in the trunk of a car for years on end. The
others have always been in heated indoor "lab" type environments, so I'd
suggest that in such situations you might as well shop by features & price
more so than a brand's reputation for ruggedness.

What I'm really trying to say here is that I don't think Fluke's are
necessarily a rip-off, just that for me I'm perfectly happy with something
that costs less. This reminds me of an article in some woodworking magazine I
read where a production cabinetry shop purchased a bunch of "prosumer" level
routers (Dewalt, Bosch, Makita, etc. from the likes of Home Depot) and tested
them to see how long they held up in a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week
continuous-use production capacity. The answer... not long! (Something like
a few months!) The experiment was to convince themselves that -- given their
particular situation -- the really high-priced routers they'd been purchasing
were indeed worth the premiums.

I own a Tektronix TX1 that seems pretty indestructable; I like it (although I
wish it would remember whether you were last measuring AC or DC when you
change it from voltage to, e.g., ohms and back -- it always defaults back to
AC!). I used to own a Fluke 87 and was annoyed that it suffered from the
then-common problem of the zebra strip separating from the LCD, thereby causes
various LCD segments to fail. A quick trip through a Panavise fixed it for
good... or at least until I sold it some time later.

---Joel Kolstad

P.S. -- Another pretty common question on here is what college students should
get for meters, and my response to them is also not to bother with a premium
brand until they're really figured out what features they like in a meter and
just how abusive they are with them. :-)

P.P.S. -- They're really pretty awful, but you can buy a *lot* of those $2.99
Harbor Freight meters for the price of a Fluke...!

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 16:37:20 -0700, "Joel Kolstad"
wrote:

[snip]

I own a Tektronix TX1 that seems pretty indestructable; I like it (although I
wish it would remember whether you were last measuring AC or DC when you
change it from voltage to, e.g., ohms and back -- it always defaults back to
AC!). I used to own a Fluke 87 and was annoyed that it suffered from the
then-common problem of the zebra strip separating from the LCD, thereby causes
various LCD segments to fail. A quick trip through a Panavise fixed it for
good... or at least until I sold it some time later.

---Joel Kolstad

P.S. -- Another pretty common question on here is what college students should
get for meters, and my response to them is also not to bother with a premium
brand until they're really figured out what features they like in a meter and
just how abusive they are with them. :-)

P.P.S. -- They're really pretty awful, but you can buy a *lot* of those $2.99
Harbor Freight meters for the price of a Fluke...!


I have a Micronta that's served me well for I can't remember how many
years... maybe 20 or more.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

(Following up to myself here)

P.P.S. -- They're really pretty awful, but you can buy a *lot* of those
$2.99 Harbor Freight meters for the price of a Fluke...!

Speaking of these... If anyone wants it, I have a spare one
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90899) that
I'll send, completely free of charge, to the first person who e-mails me
(remove "hatesspam" at the end of my e-mail address). I would prefer that it
goes to someone who can't readily visit Harbor Freight themselves, is low on
disposable income, a student, etc. (i.e., if you own a BMW or a Lexus, please
let it go to someone else).

---Joel
(who presently drives a Honda Civic...)

DaveC wrote:
Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,
--
DaveC

This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group






a used Fluke might be as good qaulity as a Fluke!

just kidding. I don't know the answer.

I bought a cheapy ($30) Right Tech 2323552 or something like that from
Marvac.com cause it had min max and i wanted to test auto sensors. Then
i found out that it didn't have min max AND average the way fluke had
it setup. Even worse min max was manual and limited to voltage!!!
Absuloute junk!. Well, a fluke is about 300 dollars or so. Now i have a
junk fluke wannabe so my inevitable Fluke is now gonna cost 30 dollars
more (to include my cheap shortcut).
Paying for more is worth it only when you pay for the best. The best is
always priceless.
The only problem is that all of us have paid for the best and have only
gotten the bwerst.

Please tell us what your research finds! Although i have given up and
am saving money for that fluke 80 series already. Still doesn't hurt to
imagine that someone out there would be willing to give more than they
take like is prevalent with all these freeware software folks on the
net.

In article .net,
says...


Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,
--
DaveC

---------------------


We use a lot of meters here. The following might be of interest,
where we checked them out a few months back on low AC voltage..

meter reading

Fluke 8600A 1.500 volts bench type maybe 10 years old
Fluke 189 1.4975 about 1 year old
Fluke 83 III 1.497 new
" 1.497 new
" 1.497 new
HP 8060A 1.497 about 5 years old
HP 8060A 1.499 "
HP 3465A 1.497 bench type about 10 years old
Simpson 360A 1.499 bench type about 25 years old
Triplett 9015A 1.498 2 years old
Triplett 9015A 1.501 "
Valhalla 2101 1.500 6 months old. This measures power,
current, and voltage.

Of the above, only the Simpson 360A and the Fluke 8600A have been
recalibrated since leaving the factory.

jc the elder

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:13:09 -0700, DaveC wrote:

Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

I've had a few Fluke 77s for fifteen or so years. No problems, except one
wandered off so I bought a pile of $3 HarborFreight DVMs to put in tool
boxes and lend to possible thiefs. They're the sacrificial lambs so the
Flukes stay warm and dry on the workbench in the cellar.

--
Keith

www.bmillerengineering.com
"Joel Kolstad" wrote in message
...
AC!). I used to own a Fluke 87 and was annoyed that it suffered from the
then-common problem of the zebra strip separating from the LCD, thereby
causes various LCD segments to fail. A quick trip through a Panavise
fixed it for good... or at least until I sold it some time later.

For what it is worth to anyone with that problem, there is a relatively
inexpensive display retrofit kit available all the time on eBay that
replaces the zebra stripe with a newer type, and also upgrades the display
itself and the backlight. It is worth the money if you want to update a
Fluke 80 series meter. Mine has been working great, and the new display has
larger characters.


P.P.S. -- They're really pretty awful, but you can buy a *lot* of those
$2.99 Harbor Freight meters for the price of a Fluke...!

And you can have them blow up in your hand due to inadequate safety design.
It happens! Probably not an issue for a homeowner doing troubleshooting
around the house, but forget them if you do industrial work. Buy one of the
major brands that has an IEC CAT III or CAT IV rating at least 600V.

As for my preference, my field multimeters are Fluke, and I like their
reliability. However, I suspect that other major brands such as Tektronix,
Amprobe, etc. would be fine as well. I recommend against Rat Shack, Harbor
Freight, etc. for serious work, both for reliability and safety reasons.

Ben Miller


--
Benjamin D. Miller, PE
B. MILLER ENGINEERING

"DaveC" wrote in message
news.net...
Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,
--
DaveC

This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group


I prefer Fluke. All of our lab technicians and field engineers use them. I
would recommend Tektronix, but they have discontinued their DMM line.

Charles Perry P.E.

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 16:37:20 -0700, "Joel Kolstad"
wrote:

[snip]

I own a Tektronix TX1 that seems pretty indestructable; I like it (although I
wish it would remember whether you were last measuring AC or DC when you
change it from voltage to, e.g., ohms and back -- it always defaults back to
AC!). I used to own a Fluke 87 and was annoyed that it suffered from the
then-common problem of the zebra strip separating from the LCD, thereby causes
various LCD segments to fail. A quick trip through a Panavise fixed it for
good... or at least until I sold it some time later.

---Joel Kolstad

P.S. -- Another pretty common question on here is what college students should
get for meters, and my response to them is also not to bother with a premium
brand until they're really figured out what features they like in a meter and
just how abusive they are with them. :-)

P.P.S. -- They're really pretty awful, but you can buy a *lot* of those $2.99
Harbor Freight meters for the price of a Fluke...!


I have a Micronta that's served me well for I can't remember how many
years... maybe 20 or more.

...Jim Thompson


Jim, your post reminds me that my Micronta handheld, model# 22-188, formerly my
workhorse which I stashed away years ago as a spare, needs a proper fuse. I'd
completely forgotten. I popped the fuse somehow and, because I was hot on some
project at the time, kludged an ad hoc repair by soldering wirewrap wire across
the blown fuse (and me an engineer!). I gotta replace that fuse! Thanks for
the reminder.

I would recommend this meter - or similar - to anyone who is just starting in
electronics. It was inexpensive and is versitile and accurate enough for the
beginner.

"Charles Perry" wrote in message
...
I prefer Fluke. All of our lab technicians and field engineers use them. I
would recommend Tektronix, but they have discontinued their DMM line.

I was surprised to learn that HP (now Agilent) used to make handheld meters --
some guys at work have them; I've always thought of them only as the source of
6 1/2+ digit "bench top" meters in the $1000+ range.

This place lists just about everything not made by Fluke/Meterman or the
other Big Guys:

https://ssl.biggiweb.com/valuetesters/index.php
--
DaveC

This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group

How about an Omega HHM290 ? It comes with built in infrared temperature,
Dual thermocouple
inputs, will measure differential temp between the two thermocouples. 5
digiti display. and
not too bad a price.




"DaveC" wrote in message
news.net...
Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,
--
DaveC

This is an invalid return address
Please reply in the news group

In article ,
"Spokesman" wrote:

How about an Omega HHM290 ? It comes with built in infrared temperature,
Dual thermocouple
inputs, will measure differential temp between the two thermocouples. 5
digiti display. and
not too bad a price.




Omega is a graphic arts company. They don't make stuff, they just
private brand it and put out slick catalogs. Might as well by a Fluke
with a Fluke label instead of a Fluke with an Omega label.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:30:21 -0500, "Ben Miller"
wrote:

www.bmillerengineering.com
"Joel Kolstad" wrote in message
...
AC!). I used to own a Fluke 87 and was annoyed that it suffered from the
then-common problem of the zebra strip separating from the LCD, thereby
causes various LCD segments to fail. A quick trip through a Panavise
fixed it for good... or at least until I sold it some time later.

For what it is worth to anyone with that problem, there is a relatively
inexpensive display retrofit kit available all the time on eBay that
replaces the zebra stripe with a newer type, and also upgrades the display
itself and the backlight. It is worth the money if you want to update a
Fluke 80 series meter. Mine has been working great, and the new display has
larger characters.


Thats one think i like about the Fluke, I can replace the LCD cheap
when i crack it.I have a nasty habbit of dropping tools from great
heights, and the fluke seems to survive many big drops, aside from the
odd shattered LCD.

I am sure lots of other big brands will supply spare parts, but will
they supply them for a 15year old model? I bought my current fluke at
the end of my sparky career and it is still going strong. I have
replaced the battery once in this time.





P.P.S. -- They're really pretty awful, but you can buy a *lot* of those
$2.99 Harbor Freight meters for the price of a Fluke...!

And you can have them blow up in your hand due to inadequate safety design.
It happens! Probably not an issue for a homeowner doing troubleshooting
around the house, but forget them if you do industrial work. Buy one of the
major brands that has an IEC CAT III or CAT IV rating at least 600V.

As for my preference, my field multimeters are Fluke, and I like their
reliability. However, I suspect that other major brands such as Tektronix,
Amprobe, etc. would be fine as well. I recommend against Rat Shack, Harbor
Freight, etc. for serious work, both for reliability and safety reasons.

Ben Miller

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Jim Thompson wrote:


text snipped



I have a Micronta that's served me well for I can't remember how
many
years... maybe 20 or more.

...Jim Thompson


Jim, your post reminds me that my Micronta handheld, model# 22-188,
formerly my
workhorse which I stashed away years ago as a spare, needs a proper
fuse. I'd
completely forgotten. I popped the fuse somehow and, because I was
hot on some
project at the time, kludged an ad hoc repair by soldering wirewrap
wire across
the blown fuse (and me an engineer!). I gotta replace that fuse!
Thanks for
the reminder.

I would recommend this meter - or similar - to anyone who is just
starting in
electronics. It was inexpensive and is versitile and accurate enough
for the
beginner.

Back when I still had a paper route, my very first DMM was a Micronta
with 3 1/2 digit red LED display - had it for years, and it's still in
the basement of the other house but no longer usable. It was designed
with a 1.35 V mercury cell as a voltage reference, floating in the
feedback loop of an op-amp - sadly, mercury button cells are now
impossible to get ( I think), so unless I come up with a substitute the
meter is heading for the recycle bin.

Bill

"DaveC" wrote in message
news.net...
Not that there's anything wrong with Flukes, inherently, but I like having
choices.

Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Thanks,
--
DaveC

Ive had quite a few (cheap) multimeters in the past, then I got a second
hand fluke 77 fairly cheap, its far beter than all the others ive had put
together and its lasted ages. probably atualy works out cheaper in the long
run (and the battery lasts ages too). I like flukes and this model in
particular, it was the one to go for at the time at work especialy if you
didnt have to pay the price tag, however im not sure what else is around
that can match it in terms of being nice to use reliable and rugged.

Incedently I saw a project for a home made power supply on the web where the
insides of a multimeter were used as the volt/current readout, some are so
cheap they are actualy cheaper than a proper panel mounting digital meter.

Colin =^.^=

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
"Spokesman" wrote:

How about an Omega HHM290 ? It comes with built in infrared
temperature, Dual thermocouple
inputs, will measure differential temp between the two thermocouples. 5
digiti display. and
not too bad a price.




Omega is a graphic arts company. They don't make stuff, they just
private brand it and put out slick catalogs. Might as well by a Fluke
with a Fluke label instead of a Fluke with an Omega label.
I have some Omega test equipment, it is pretty good. They are not as solid
as a Fluke or a Tek, after all they are knock-offs.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Spokesman" wrote:

How about an Omega HHM290 ? It comes with built in infrared
temperature,
Dual thermocouple
inputs, will measure differential temp between the two thermocouples. 5
digiti display. and
not too bad a price.




Omega is a graphic arts company. They don't make stuff, they just
private brand it and put out slick catalogs. Might as well by a Fluke
with a Fluke label instead of a Fluke with an Omega label.


I am not familier with the Fluke version of the Omega HHM290.
Could you point out the correct model number to me so I can
buy the Fluke version next time.

In article ,
"Spokesman" wrote:



I am not familier with the Fluke version of the Omega HHM290.
Could you point out the correct model number to me so I can
buy the Fluke version next time.

I don't know whether Fluke makes that particular model. The point is,
Omega is a distributor. I have nothing against distributors, unless they
stick their Omega label on top of the real manufacturer's label, and
then pretend they're the manufacturer. Sheesh.

DaveC wrote:
Are there other brands that are considered as good quality as Fluke?

Mastech. I have one and have also used other ones of Mastech, and I
find them high quality products.

---
I don't read top-posted messages.

Greetings,

IMHO, the most important thing about a Fluke meter is not the quality
of its build, but where it is built.

Sure, Flukes cost more, but there built in the USA (AFAIK). You're
getting some of your money back in the taxes they pay (assuming you're
an American, an Iraqi, or a North Korean (eventually)).

You may not like how much Fluke charges, but you can be reasonably
sure that they're not going to use the extra cash to invade Taiwan or
launch nuclear missiles at YOU.

Back to your question:

Although I don't think its made anymore, my favorite DMM was a Simpson
467. Very convenient for field/industrial use when "worn" with the
high quality, real leather carrying case (which allowed the meter to
dangle from your neck -- look out for door knobs!). It also had a
swell set of features.

Although I do own a Fluke, I generally use a cheap, but well liked
(non-ROC) VOM at work, and a Triplett 630-PLK at home. (I think I'm
the last person that has ever bought one new, but, as they're still
for sale, you can beat me if you wish: http://www.triplett.com/) I've
grow ever more fond of VOMs with age, and ever less fond of DMMs.
Something about the way their digits keep staring at me whilst they
drain, albeit slowly, their batteries disquiets me. g

If your keen on investigating your meter choices, you might want to
look around the eclectic collection offered (mostly exclusively) on
line at Electronix Express/RSR Electronics
(http://elexp.com/on_web.htm). Not only do they have what may be the
worst FET-VOM ever built, but they also offer a Triplett Model 3250
DMM with a Head-up-display. (You wear a transparent monocle upon which
your test results are displayed.) Anyone ever try it?



Cordially,
Richard Kanarek

In article ,
Richard Kanarek wrote:

http://elexp.com/on_web.htm

Thanks for that link, Richard. I see they also sell the best diagonal
cutters on the planet, Erem brand, at very competitive prices. I love
good tools!

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:47:49 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
"Spokesman" wrote:



I am not familier with the Fluke version of the Omega HHM290.
Could you point out the correct model number to me so I can
buy the Fluke version next time.

I don't know whether Fluke makes that particular model. The point is,
Omega is a distributor. I have nothing against distributors, unless they
stick their Omega label on top of the real manufacturer's label, and
then pretend they're the manufacturer. Sheesh.

How is that different than a Mazda pickup truck or IBM Personal
Computer, or any number of a thousand different every day items? Sheesh,
indeed!

--
Keith

In article ,
Keith wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:47:49 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
"Spokesman" wrote:



I am not familier with the Fluke version of the Omega HHM290.
Could you point out the correct model number to me so I can
buy the Fluke version next time.

I don't know whether Fluke makes that particular model. The point is,
Omega is a distributor. I have nothing against distributors, unless they
stick their Omega label on top of the real manufacturer's label, and
then pretend they're the manufacturer. Sheesh.

How is that different than a Mazda pickup truck or IBM Personal
Computer, or any number of a thousand different every day items? Sheesh,
indeed!

I don't know, Keith, how is it different? I don't buy IBMs or any other
brand of PC, nor Mazdas. I know who made my Mac, and my Toyota.
Everything is assembled from parts, it's true. But if you peel the Mazda
sticker off your Mazda, is there a Chevrolet sticker under it?

We used to manufacture a surgical monitoring instrument for a well-known
international corporation. In order to distribute the instrument in
Europe, the thing had to be manufactured in Europe. We stuck the
appropriate label on the units bound for Europe, attesting to that. When
they got there, people there installed the 9 volt battery. Voila. Made
in Europe.

I think things ought to be accurately labeled, and that not doing so
constitutes fraud. That's my opinion, of course, and you're welcome to
share it or hold some opposing belief.

In article ,
says...
In article ,
Keith wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:47:49 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
"Spokesman" wrote:



I am not familier with the Fluke version of the Omega HHM290.
Could you point out the correct model number to me so I can
buy the Fluke version next time.

I don't know whether Fluke makes that particular model. The point is,
Omega is a distributor. I have nothing against distributors, unless they
stick their Omega label on top of the real manufacturer's label, and
then pretend they're the manufacturer. Sheesh.

How is that different than a Mazda pickup truck or IBM Personal
Computer, or any number of a thousand different every day items? Sheesh,
indeed!

I don't know, Keith, how is it different? I don't buy IBMs or any other
brand of PC, nor Mazdas. I know who made my Mac, and my Toyota.
Everything is assembled from parts, it's true.

Not made from foreign parts. *Made* in China and Taiwan. BTW, IBM
Personal Computers aren't even IBM. The brand was sold to Lenovo
(for five years). Same for GE appliances and...

But if you peel the Mazda
sticker off your Mazda, is there a Chevrolet sticker under it?

No, a Ford sticker. Mazda light trucks are made in Ford plants in
the US. The 'B' series trucks are Ford Rangers. I suppose it
would freak you out to know that Volvo and Jaguar are also Ford and
Saab (the cars, anyway) are GM.

We used to manufacture a surgical monitoring instrument for a well-known
international corporation. In order to distribute the instrument in
Europe, the thing had to be manufactured in Europe. We stuck the
appropriate label on the units bound for Europe, attesting to that. When
they got there, people there installed the 9 volt battery. Voila. Made
in Europe.

So you're as crooked as those you bitch about. BTW, the US has
laws against such nonsense and I'm surprised the EU doesn't as
well.

I think things ought to be accurately labeled, and that not doing so
constitutes fraud. That's my opinion, of course, and you're welcome to
share it or hold some opposing belief.

Re-branding is not fraud. You think Sears shouldn't be allowed to
sell "Die-Hard" batteries or "Kenmore" appliances?

--
Keith

In article ,
Keith Williams wrote:


No, a Ford sticker. Mazda light trucks are made in Ford plants in
the US. The 'B' series trucks are Ford Rangers. I suppose it
would freak you out to know that Volvo and Jaguar are also Ford and
Saab (the cars, anyway) are GM.

Well, I did know that Ford bought Jaguar a number of years ago. They
didn't try to hide the fact, though, and although there may have been
some personnel and structural changes, Jag remains a largely autonomous
company, and the cars they put out don't say FORD on them.

But I'm not talking about a theoretical brand sticker, I'm talking about
a real one. I've purchased things from Omega, and other companies, for
that matter, that *literally* have the real manufacturer's sticker
*underneath* the distributor's sticker.


We used to manufacture a surgical monitoring instrument for a well-known
international corporation. In order to distribute the instrument in
Europe, the thing had to be manufactured in Europe. We stuck the
appropriate label on the units bound for Europe, attesting to that. When
they got there, people there installed the 9 volt battery. Voila. Made
in Europe.

So you're as crooked as those you bitch about. BTW, the US has
laws against such nonsense and I'm surprised the EU doesn't as
well.

Maybe. But I'm a contract manufacturer, and I've learned to do things
the way the customer wants them done. If I told my customers my moral
and political and environmental beliefs, let alone my product design
philosophies, I wouldn't have a job. That could certainly be considered
pragmatic or hypocritical, depending on one's perspective.

Now, though, you seem to be contradicting yourself, by calling that
practice "nonsense" and illegal. What's your real position? Hard to
debate the issue if you keep shifting it.


I think things ought to be accurately labeled, and that not doing so
constitutes fraud. That's my opinion, of course, and you're welcome to
share it or hold some opposing belief.

Re-branding is not fraud. You think Sears shouldn't be allowed to
sell "Die-Hard" batteries or "Kenmore" appliances?

Those are trade names that, AFAIK, have *always* been owned by Sears.
That's like saying, Do I think Toyota shouldn't be allowed to call its
cars "Camry." I don't see the relation here at all. That's not
rebranding, that's trademarking.

But you're right, rebranding isn't fraud, legally, in most cases.

In article ,
says...
In article ,
Keith Williams wrote:


No, a Ford sticker. Mazda light trucks are made in Ford plants in
the US. The 'B' series trucks are Ford Rangers. I suppose it
would freak you out to know that Volvo and Jaguar are also Ford and
Saab (the cars, anyway) are GM.

Well, I did know that Ford bought Jaguar a number of years ago. They
didn't try to hide the fact, though, and although there may have been
some personnel and structural changes, Jag remains a largely autonomous
company, and the cars they put out don't say FORD on them.

What about the same GM and Toyotas built in the same plant with
different name tags. ...and you didn't mention the Mazdas that are
re-branded Ford Rangers.

But I'm not talking about a theoretical brand sticker, I'm talking about
a real one. I've purchased things from Omega, and other companies, for
that matter, that *literally* have the real manufacturer's sticker
*underneath* the distributor's sticker.

Who cares? Did you get what was advertised? ...maybe something
even better than you anticipated?! You bought a knock-off and got
the real thing and you're mad about it. Sheesh!

We used to manufacture a surgical monitoring instrument for a well-known
international corporation. In order to distribute the instrument in
Europe, the thing had to be manufactured in Europe. We stuck the
appropriate label on the units bound for Europe, attesting to that. When
they got there, people there installed the 9 volt battery. Voila. Made
in Europe.

So you're as crooked as those you bitch about. BTW, the US has
laws against such nonsense and I'm surprised the EU doesn't as
well.

Maybe. But I'm a contract manufacturer, and I've learned to do things
the way the customer wants them done. If I told my customers my moral
and political and environmental beliefs, let alone my product design
philosophies, I wouldn't have a job. That could certainly be considered
pragmatic or hypocritical, depending on one's perspective.

You admit that you're willing to break the law for pragmatism? I
don't know what the EU law is here, but I can't imagine it being
less strict than US law.

If you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is, where
do you get off telling others to put their money where your mouth
is?

Now, though, you seem to be contradicting yourself, by calling that
practice "nonsense" and illegal. What's your real position? Hard to
debate the issue if you keep shifting it.

No contradiction at all. In the US it is illegal to put a "Made in
&country." sticker on a device that's only &country. content is the
insertion of a battery. I can't imagine this being kosher in the
EU. It has nothing to do with re-branding.

I think things ought to be accurately labeled, and that not doing so
constitutes fraud. That's my opinion, of course, and you're welcome to
share it or hold some opposing belief.

Re-branding is not fraud. You think Sears shouldn't be allowed to
sell "Die-Hard" batteries or "Kenmore" appliances?

Those are trade names that, AFAIK, have *always* been owned by Sears.
That's like saying, Do I think Toyota shouldn't be allowed to call its
cars "Camry." I don't see the relation here at all. That's not
rebranding, that's trademarking.

Do you think Sears makes batteries or appliances (or anything, for
that matter)? They're putting their name on other's goods.

But you're right, rebranding isn't fraud, legally, in most cases.

Then quit yer bitchin'. It's not even amoral.

--
Keith

"Keith" wrote in message
news
How is that different than a Mazda pickup truck or IBM Personal
Computer, or any number of a thousand different every day items? Sheesh,
indeed!

It's not, and that's the problem: When you have company A that simply slaps
their name on company B's product, obtaining service & support for that
product is typically much more difficult than if you simply bought the product
from company B to begin with. Additionally, the purchase price from company A
is often higher than going the direct route!

Richard Kanarek wrote:
If your keen on investigating your meter choices, you might want to
look around the eclectic collection offered (mostly exclusively) on
line at Electronix Express/RSR Electronics
(http://elexp.com/on_web.htm). Not only do they have what may be the
worst FET-VOM ever built, but they also offer a Triplett Model 3250
DMM with a Head-up-display. (You wear a transparent monocle upon which
your test results are displayed.) Anyone ever try it?

Wow, the test leads run right to your temples when you wear that thing!
I'm not sure if it's for real or a Trek/Borg-inspired joke!

Tim.

In article ,
says...
"Keith" wrote in message
news
How is that different than a Mazda pickup truck or IBM Personal
Computer, or any number of a thousand different every day items? Sheesh,
indeed!

It's not, and that's the problem: When you have company A that simply slaps
their name on company B's product, obtaining service & support for that
product is typically much more difficult than if you simply bought the product
from company B to begin with. Additionally, the purchase price from company A
is often higher than going the direct route!

If you bought company B's product, you go to company B for support.
If that company is a fly-by-nighter, you shouldn't have bought it.
Because it is the same widget as Company A's is meaningless. You
didn't buy company A's, even if they're the same hunk-o-hardware.
If company A's was cheaper, you're a fool for buying the same thing
with company B's sticker on it. There is no fraud going on here at
all. It's all aboveboard. The problem is not with re-badging but
with your perception. TANSTAAFL.

--
Keith

In article .com, "Tim Shoppa" wrote:
Richard Kanarek wrote:
If your keen on investigating your meter choices, you might want to
look around the eclectic collection offered (mostly exclusively) on
line at Electronix Express/RSR Electronics
(http://elexp.com/on_web.htm). Not only do they have what may be the
worst FET-VOM ever built, but they also offer a Triplett Model 3250
DMM with a Head-up-display. (You wear a transparent monocle upon which
your test results are displayed.) Anyone ever try it?

Wow, the test leads run right to your temples when you wear that thing!
I'm not sure if it's for real or a Trek/Borg-inspired joke!


This site is a bit hard to maneuver, but an interesting one, and I
bought a Vellman portable oscilloscope last month for $125, the cheapest
price I could find, and I also got a free Vellman DMM to boot..

Gee a Tripplet analog for $260. I have the old 630 right here.

greg

Hi Keith,

"Keith Williams" wrote in message
T...
If you bought company B's product, you go to company B for support.
If that company is a fly-by-nighter, you shouldn't have bought it.

You're illustrating exactly the problem with Tektronix (and other companies
such as IBM) he They have a reputation for a certain level of quality &
support, so you can't blame the customer when the company starts re-labeling
someone else's product, sells them, and then can no longer provide their
traditional level of service.

If company A's was cheaper, you're a fool for buying the same thing
with company B's sticker on it. There is no fraud going on here at
all. It's all aboveboard.

Sure, it's above board and not fradulent -- it's just disappointing. I don't
think anyone here *is* claiming something truly evil is going on, just that
it's sad to see traditionally excellent companies go down this path in a
manner somewhat akin to "selling out."

---Joel

Richard Kanarek wrote:
Not only do they have what may be the
worst FET-VOM ever built, but they also offer a Triplett Model 3250
DMM with a Head-up-display. (You wear a transparent monocle upon which
your test results are displayed.) Anyone ever try it?

No, but I can just see someone using that in combination with the voice
recognition software/hardware that Tektronix sells for their TDS series
oscilloscopes
(http://www.tektronix.com/Measurement...=oscilloscopes)!
:-)

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:59:43 -0700, Joel Kolstad wrote:

Hi Keith,

"Keith Williams" wrote in message
T...
If you bought company B's product, you go to company B for support.
If that company is a fly-by-nighter, you shouldn't have bought it.

You're illustrating exactly the problem with Tektronix (and other companies
such as IBM) he They have a reputation for a certain level of quality &
support, so you can't blame the customer when the company starts re-labeling
someone else's product, sells them, and then can no longer provide their
traditional level of service.

Let's go back! The OP's bitching because he bought a FLUKE, with Company
B's label on top. He *DID NOT* buy a Fluke. The IBM deal is quite like
the GE deal. They're selling their name as part of the unit sold. The
name is worth money. ...and they're still servicing the products *THEY*
sell. I suppose you don't think GoodYear should sell tires under the
GoodYear name in Sears.

In the end, it's up to the consumer to know what he's buying.

If company A's was cheaper, you're a fool for buying the same thing
with company B's sticker on it. There is no fraud going on here at
all. It's all aboveboard.

Sure, it's above board and not fradulent -- it's just disappointing.

Why? He bought a Company B product that is the same as a company A, but
paid for Company B. Why is that disappointing?

I don't think anyone here *is* claiming something truly evil is going on,
just that it's sad to see traditionally excellent companies go down this
path in a manner somewhat akin to "selling out."

You're wrong. He was claiming *FRAUD* (until I challenged this
absurdity), which clearly it's not.

--
Keith