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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Joining Worktops
I've never joined a kitchen worktop before. My nice shiny new worktop
router jig arrived the other day and the box says that a 1600W router should be used. Would I be a complete spaz to try cutting it with my cheap 900W 1/4" router from Wickes then? I hadn't really factored-in buying a big router as I hardly ever use the thing, so unless my 900W is likely to do a reasonable job, I may just have to give up on the jig idea and try to get someone in who knows what they're doing. My 900W beastie has been fine for cutting decoritive effects into MDF, and I assumed a big lump of chipboard wouldn't present it with any problems. -- Chris Cowley |
#2
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Joining Worktops
Chris Cowley wrote:
Would I be a complete spaz to try cutting it with my cheap 900W 1/4" router from Wickes then? Yes. I hadn't really factored-in buying a big router as I hardly ever use the thing, so unless my 900W is likely to do a reasonable job, I may just have to give up on the jig idea and try to get someone in who knows what they're doing. Or borrow/hire a bigger router? My 900W beastie has been fine for cutting decoritive effects into MDF, and I assumed a big lump of chipboard wouldn't present it with any problems. I'd be amazed if you could cut a worktop with that. Can you even get 1/4" bits that are long enough? -- Grunff |
#3
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:21:19 +0000, Grunff wrote:
Chris Cowley wrote: Would I be a complete spaz to try cutting it with my cheap 900W 1/4" router from Wickes then? Yes. Oh. Bugger. I hadn't really factored-in buying a big router as I hardly ever use the thing, so unless my 900W is likely to do a reasonable job, I may just have to give up on the jig idea and try to get someone in who knows what they're doing. Or borrow/hire a bigger router? Always an option, I suppose. But given that it's probably 50/50 as to whether I muck the entire job up and have to buy new worktops anyway, getting someone in who does this on a daily basis is starting to sound like an attractive proposition. One of the worktops I'd be jointing has to fit-in snugly around a chimney breast too, and I'm pretty sure the corner in question is not going to be bang-on 90deg, so it's all starting to sound like a load of old hassle. I also have one of those curved 90deg metal joining strips, but they look a bit pants if you ask me. I'd prefer a proper join. I'd be amazed if you could cut a worktop with that. Can you even get 1/4" bits that are long enough? Dunno, I haven't got as far as buying a suitable bit yet. I guess not, from what you've said! Ta for the input, sounds like you may have saved me shelling out for a second set of worktops. Anyone want to buy an unused worktop jig then!? -- Chris Cowley |
#4
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:58:28 +0000, Chris Cowley
wrote: I've never joined a kitchen worktop before. My nice shiny new worktop router jig arrived the other day and the box says that a 1600W router should be used. Would I be a complete spaz to try cutting it with my cheap 900W 1/4" router from Wickes then? Well...... I could be kind and say that this really isn't a good idea, but a 6.35mm router is not going to do this job. - You would have problems in finding a long enough bit - I am not sure that they even exist - and if they do, the bit will chatter and has a high chance of breaking and exiting the work area at high velocity. I hadn't really factored-in buying a big router as I hardly ever use the thing, so unless my 900W is likely to do a reasonable job, I may just have to give up on the jig idea and try to get someone in who knows what they're doing. My 900W beastie has been fine for cutting decoritive effects into MDF, and I assumed a big lump of chipboard wouldn't present it with any problems. This is definitely a 12.7mm router job. While you can take small cuts with a smaller router, as mentioned, the depth will be an issue. The bit is likely to chatter and vibrate horribly. There are really three choices. - Go for a reasonable 12.7mm router. This really begins with something like the Freud at around £160. The cheap Chinese ones at DIY stores and Argos etc. for £80 or less, are not up to this type of work if you want a proper result. You will also need to buy a worktop cutting bit. Costs for a reasonable CMT or Freud one aout £20 Advantage is that you will have a nice router for other jobs. - Rent the above - Get somebody to do the job and return the jig for a refund. Personally, I would and did buy the router. -- ..andy |
#5
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Joining Worktops
Chris Cowley wrote:
My 900W beastie has been fine for cutting decoritive effects into MDF, and I assumed a big lump of chipboard wouldn't present it with any problems. 900W a beastie? I wonder what you'd call a 2000W jobbie. :-) -- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite |
#6
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:39:11 +0000, Chris Cowley
wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:21:19 +0000, Grunff wrote: Chris Cowley wrote: Would I be a complete spaz to try cutting it with my cheap 900W 1/4" router from Wickes then? Yes. Oh. Bugger. I hadn't really factored-in buying a big router as I hardly ever use the thing, so unless my 900W is likely to do a reasonable job, I may just have to give up on the jig idea and try to get someone in who knows what they're doing. Or borrow/hire a bigger router? Always an option, I suppose. But given that it's probably 50/50 as to whether I muck the entire job up and have to buy new worktops anyway, getting someone in who does this on a daily basis is starting to sound like an attractive proposition. One of the worktops I'd be jointing has to fit-in snugly around a chimney breast too, and I'm pretty sure the corner in question is not going to be bang-on 90deg, so it's all starting to sound like a load of old hassle. I also have one of those curved 90deg metal joining strips, but they look a bit pants if you ask me. I'd prefer a proper join. That's understating it. They're crap - and that's being kind. Are you going to tile the sides of the chimney breast? If so, you can get away with a few mm of out-of-square with the cutting of the worktop. I'd be amazed if you could cut a worktop with that. Can you even get 1/4" bits that are long enough? Dunno, I haven't got as far as buying a suitable bit yet. I guess not, from what you've said! Ta for the input, sounds like you may have saved me shelling out for a second set of worktops. Anyone want to buy an unused worktop jig then!? Return or Ebay? -- ..andy |
#7
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:48:10 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:
Advantage is that you will have a nice router for other jobs. - Rent the above - Get somebody to do the job and return the jig for a refund. Personally, I would and did buy the router. Thanks, I will compare the cost of hiring one against the cost/availability of getting someone in but there's no point in me shelling out 160 quid for a 1/2" router as I would probably never use it again. I've used my 1/4" one about twice in the last 3 or 4 years (to make some rather spiffy-looking cupboards) and it is man enough for any of the routing jobs I'm ever likely to tackle other than worktops. And I'm not planning on installing another kitchen for at least 10 more years! -- Chris Cowley |
#8
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Joining Worktops
Chris Cowley wrote:
Anyone want to buy an unused worktop jig then!? Nah! you can make them with some perspex sheet. ;-) -- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite |
#9
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:06:46 +0000, Chris Cowley
wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:48:10 +0000, Andy Hall wrote: Advantage is that you will have a nice router for other jobs. - Rent the above - Get somebody to do the job and return the jig for a refund. Personally, I would and did buy the router. Thanks, I will compare the cost of hiring one against the cost/availability of getting someone in but there's no point in me shelling out 160 quid for a 1/2" router as I would probably never use it again. I've used my 1/4" one about twice in the last 3 or 4 years (to make some rather spiffy-looking cupboards) and it is man enough for any of the routing jobs I'm ever likely to tackle other than worktops. And I'm not planning on installing another kitchen for at least 10 more years! OK, so given all of this, getting a person to do it is likely to be the most cost effective. -- ..andy |
#10
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Joining Worktops
Andy Hall wrote:
OK, so given all of this, getting a person to do it is likely to be the most cost effective. Worth mentioning that many hire shops do a 'worktop pack', with router, bits and jig. This can be a good approach for one-off users. -- Grunff |
#11
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:29:44 +0000, Grunff wrote:
Andy Hall wrote: OK, so given all of this, getting a person to do it is likely to be the most cost effective. Worth mentioning that many hire shops do a 'worktop pack', with router, bits and jig. This can be a good approach for one-off users. Might be worth me trying to remember that for next time. Although, in 10+ years time I don't doubt that one will need to be a registered member of a trade body to legally fit a kitchen worktop, and it will be subject to building control regulations. -- Chris Cowley |
#12
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:05:41 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:39:11 +0000, Chris Cowley wrote: I also have one of those curved 90deg metal joining strips, but they look a bit pants if you ask me. I'd prefer a proper join. That's understating it. They're crap - and that's being kind. I concur completely. I ordered it with the worktops as a special "get out of jail free" option, but I don't think I could bring myself to actually use it. SWMBO would probably tear me a new orifice, too. Are you going to tile the sides of the chimney breast? If so, you can get away with a few mm of out-of-square with the cutting of the worktop. I will be tiling the sides of the of the chimney breast (perpendicular to the wall) but not the front face. I think I could manage to do a fine job of this part to be honest, but if I'm going to get a member of the worktopisti in to do the join, then I will probably leave it for him to do. Not very in-keeping with the DIY ethos, I know, but sometimes you just have to know when to step back, I think! Return or Ebay? I will probably try returning it, but if that fails then it can go in the garage or loft with all the other bits of stuff that I keep "just in case"... -- Chris Cowley |
#13
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:09:32 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby"
wrote: Chris Cowley wrote: Anyone want to buy an unused worktop jig then!? Nah! you can make them with some perspex sheet. ;-) You can if you have a "worktop router jig" jig (or you could presumably make one of those yourself too if you have a "worktop router jig jig" jig). -- Chris Cowley |
#14
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:35:21 +0000, Chris Cowley
wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:29:44 +0000, Grunff wrote: Andy Hall wrote: OK, so given all of this, getting a person to do it is likely to be the most cost effective. Worth mentioning that many hire shops do a 'worktop pack', with router, bits and jig. This can be a good approach for one-off users. Might be worth me trying to remember that for next time. Although, in 10+ years time I don't doubt that one will need to be a registered member of a trade body to legally fit a kitchen worktop, and it will be subject to building control regulations. Yebbut, will you pay attention to it any more then than now? F*cking (mumble) jobsworths........ I suppose that (jag++)++ will be retired by then. The Lord be praised. -- ..andy |
#15
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:50:40 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:35:21 +0000, Chris Cowley wrote: Might be worth me trying to remember that for next time. Although, in 10+ years time I don't doubt that one will need to be a registered member of a trade body to legally fit a kitchen worktop, and it will be subject to building control regulations. Yebbut, will you pay attention to it any more then than now? F*cking (mumble) jobsworths........ There won't be any choice - they will change the sealant colours and lock you up and throw away the key when you try to sell your house if you've used the new-coloured sealant without getting a completion cert. -- Chris Cowley |
#16
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Joining Worktops
Another option is to use your wimpy router, but not all the way
through. Even with a 2000w router, I'm not convinced it's best practice to do it all in one cut. You could do it all with the router in about 10 passes going progressively deeper (if you can find a long enough 1/4" bit. Alternatively, you could do a shallow cut with the router (it's the laminate you want cut neatly) and then do the rest with a jigsaw. You could then tidy up the cut with either the router or a rasp, or whatever. The router would have a much easier time as it's only having to cut half the material, and the waste won't clog up and overheat the bit. -Antony |
#17
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Joining Worktops
Andy Hall wrote:
Yebbut, will you pay attention to it any more then than now? F*cking (mumble) jobsworths........ Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? -- Grunff |
#18
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Joining Worktops
Chris Cowley wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:09:32 GMT, "The3rd Earl Of Derby" wrote: Chris Cowley wrote: Anyone want to buy an unused worktop jig then!? Nah! you can make them with some perspex sheet. ;-) You can if you have a "worktop router jig" jig (or you could presumably make one of those yourself too if you have a "worktop router jig jig" jig). I borrowed a trend one, then just stuck it over the perspex and replicated its cutouts. ;-) -- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite |
#19
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:06:42 +0000, Grunff wrote:
Andy Hall wrote: Yebbut, will you pay attention to it any more then than now? F*cking (mumble) jobsworths........ Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? No, it's not just you. There seems to be a strange obsession amongst many people with trying to attain the utterly impossible goal of zero risk in all things. It will have to get worse before it gets better, I fear. I just hope I am still around to witness the "gets better" part. "More people injure themselves every year using claw-hammers than are injured by faulty electrical installations. Therefore I propose that the use of claw-hammers should be tightly regulated to minimise the risks to the public of damaging their thumbs." I think that is the sort of level that we will ultimately have to stoop to before significant numbers of people start thinking, "actually, this is all getting a bit silly." -- Chris Cowley |
#20
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Joining Worktops
Chris Cowley wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:06:42 +0000, Grunff wrote: Andy Hall wrote: Yebbut, will you pay attention to it any more then than now? F*cking (mumble) jobsworths........ Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? No, it's not just you. There seems to be a strange obsession amongst many people with trying to attain the utterly impossible goal of zero risk in all things. It will have to get worse before it gets better, I fear. I just hope I am still around to witness the "gets better" part. "More people injure themselves every year using claw-hammers than are injured by faulty electrical installations. Therefore I propose that the use of claw-hammers should be tightly regulated to minimise the risks to the public of damaging their thumbs." I think that is the sort of level that we will ultimately have to stoop to before significant numbers of people start thinking, "actually, this is all getting a bit silly." Its usually a lump hammer(aptly named, dont you think) in my case. ;-) -- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite |
#21
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Joining Worktops
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:06:42 +0000 Grunff wrote :
Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? It's an ongoing process. Decade on decade new controls are introduced but almost never rescinded. Part of it is a desire to control, part of it is that virtually every regulation is there for good reason, though as with Part P a critical analysis may show that the cost/benefit case is totally unsustainable. The politician's fear is that if they remove a control one week and something related happens the next week the Daily Mail will tear them to pieces for doing so. I mean Jenny Tonge MP's daughter wouldn't have been electrocuted if we'd had Part P would she? -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm [Latest version QSEDBUK 1.12 released 8 Dec 2005] |
#22
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Joining Worktops
The3rd Earl Of Derby wrote: Chris Cowley wrote: Grunff wrote: Andy Hall wrote: F*cking (mumble) jobsworths........ "More people injure themselves every year using claw-hammers than are injured by faulty electrical installations. Therefore I propose that the use of claw-hammers should be tightly regulated to minimise the risks to the public of damaging their thumbs." I think that is the sort of level that we will ultimately have to stoop to before significant numbers of people start thinking, "actually, this is all getting a bit silly." Its usually a lump hammer(aptly named, dont you think) in my case. ;-) Nah, club hammers are easy to use. It's using a claw hammer on a chisel [1] without a hand guard that hurts. Chip, chip. Ow ; Chip Chip ... etc HTH Paul. [1] Usually cos it's downstairs, or misplaced etc ... |
#23
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Joining Worktops
Antony wrote:
Another option is to use your wimpy router, but not all the way through. Even with a 2000w router, I'm not convinced it's best practice to do it all in one cut. You could do it all with the router in about 10 passes going progressively deeper (if you can find a long enough 1/4" bit. The pro who did my worktop recently, using a large Makita router, used that method (I've never done it myself, or even seen it done, before) and he certainly made an excellent job of it. David |
#24
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Joining Worktops
Chris Cowley wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:06:42 +0000, Grunff wrote: Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? No, it's not just you. There seems to be a strange obsession amongst many people with trying to attain the utterly impossible goal of zero risk in all things. It will have to get worse before it gets better, I fear. I just hope I am still around to witness the "gets better" part. "More people injure themselves every year using claw-hammers than are injured by faulty electrical installations. Therefore I propose that the use of claw-hammers should be tightly regulated to minimise the risks to the public of damaging their thumbs." According to a report I heard on local radio today, more people now get hurt by laminate floors than by chip pans. So hopefully, at least that will mean laminate floors get banned soon... david |
#25
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Joining Worktops
"Chris Cowley" wrote in message ... On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:05:41 +0000, Andy Hall wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:39:11 +0000, Chris Cowley wrote: I also have one of those curved 90deg metal joining strips, but they look a bit pants if you ask me. I'd prefer a proper join. That's understating it. They're crap - and that's being kind. I concur completely. I ordered it with the worktops as a special "get out of jail free" option, but I don't think I could bring myself to actually use it. SWMBO would probably tear me a new orifice, too. Are you going to tile the sides of the chimney breast? If so, you can get away with a few mm of out-of-square with the cutting of the worktop. I will be tiling the sides of the of the chimney breast (perpendicular to the wall) but not the front face. I think I could manage to do a fine job of this part to be honest, but if I'm going to get a member of the worktopisti in to do the join, then I will probably leave it for him to do. Not very in-keeping with the DIY ethos, I know, but sometimes you just have to know when to step back, I think! Don't know where in the country you live but this guy has a good reputation and posts here occasionally. http://www.kitchenman.co.uk/ I've never personally used him |
#26
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Joining Worktops
In message , Lobster
writes the risks to the public of damaging their thumbs." According to a report I heard on local radio today, more people now get hurt by laminate floors than by chip pans. So hopefully, at least that will mean laminate floors get banned soon... david Yehbut, there's a load of people (inc local fire brigade) in the North-East running round at this very minute trying to get traditional chip pans banned following a recent house fire & death case. -- steve |
#27
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:24:21 GMT, Lobster
wrote: Chris Cowley wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:06:42 +0000, Grunff wrote: Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? No, it's not just you. There seems to be a strange obsession amongst many people with trying to attain the utterly impossible goal of zero risk in all things. It will have to get worse before it gets better, I fear. I just hope I am still around to witness the "gets better" part. "More people injure themselves every year using claw-hammers than are injured by faulty electrical installations. Therefore I propose that the use of claw-hammers should be tightly regulated to minimise the risks to the public of damaging their thumbs." According to a report I heard on local radio today, more people now get hurt by laminate floors than by chip pans. So hopefully, at least that will mean laminate floors get banned soon... Good thing. -- ..andy |
#28
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:50:06 +0000, Steven Briggs
wrote: In message , Lobster writes the risks to the public of damaging their thumbs." According to a report I heard on local radio today, more people now get hurt by laminate floors than by chip pans. So hopefully, at least that will mean laminate floors get banned soon... david Yehbut, there's a load of people (inc local fire brigade) in the North-East running round at this very minute trying to get traditional chip pans banned following a recent house fire & death case. Yes, but it's near Scotland and they have deep fried pizzas and Mars bars there. It's probably best to let nature run its course since they have a speech impediment anyway. -- ..andy |
#29
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:10:31 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:06:42 +0000 Grunff wrote : Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? It's an ongoing process. Decade on decade new controls are introduced but almost never rescinded. Part of it is a desire to control, part of it is that virtually every regulation is there for good reason, though as with Part P a critical analysis may show that the cost/benefit case is totally unsustainable. The politician's fear is that if they remove a control one week and something related happens the next week the Daily Mail will tear them to pieces for doing so. I mean Jenny Tonge MP's daughter wouldn't have been electrocuted if we'd had Part P would she? Definitely not, but sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. -- ..andy |
#30
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:10:31 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote: On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:06:42 +0000 Grunff wrote : Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? It's an ongoing process. Decade on decade new controls are introduced but almost never rescinded. Part of it is a desire to control, part of it is that virtually every regulation is there for good reason, though as with Part P a critical analysis may show that the cost/benefit case is totally unsustainable. The politician's fear is that if they remove a control one week and something related happens the next week the Daily Mail will tear them to pieces for doing so. I mean Jenny Tonge MP's daughter wouldn't have been electrocuted if we'd had Part P would she? Part P is not really about safety, is it? It's to get more people to use tradespersons and not DIY so that Gordon gets more tax. Mark |
#31
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:06:42 +0000, Grunff wrote:
Andy Hall wrote: Yebbut, will you pay attention to it any more then than now? F*cking (mumble) jobsworths........ Is it just me, or does it seem like this decade will be remembered as the decade when we lost the freedom to do many things without permission? No that started on the 1st January 1973. -- |
#32
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Antony wrote:
Another option is to use your wimpy router, but not all the way through. Even with a 2000w router, I'm not convinced it's best practice to do it all in one cut. You could do it all with the router in about It isn't - you are supposed to do multiple passes even with a big router. About 10mm per pass is about the limit. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
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