On 4/22/2017 9:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I had a 86 Subaru with a Hill Holder Clutch. On a incline of at least (I forget
how many) degrees, you would depress the brake and the clutch. You could then
release the brake and it would stay on until the clutch was high enough to engage the tranny and begin to move the car forward. No more rolling backward
or stalling and a lot less wear on the clutch.

If I recall correctly, they did with a ball inside the master cylinder
that would roll backward and seal something. I forget what made it release
once the vehicle had started moving, since you were often still on a hill.

I recently saw a commercial where some new vehicle had that feature. I'm sure
it's computer controlled now, not mechanical like back in the 80's.


Studebaker had it about 1950. My son had it on his Subaru. Nice feature.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 18:39:10 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 9:04:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/22/2017 8:30 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 04/22/2017 06:08 PM, wrote:
You are SUPPOSED to use the parking brake, and also put it in park
before shutting it off.

Most of the time... I tend not to use the parking brake in the winter.
Bad memories.

Or after driving in rain when the temperature dropped at night. BTDT

My Genesis has a feature called "Auto Hold". when you stop, the brakes
will stay so you can take your foot off the brake pedal. When you put
it in Park, it electronically sets the parking brake.

The Auto Hold feature is really nice in traffic. Comes off very smooth
when you press the gas pedal.

I had a 86 Subaru with a Hill Holder Clutch. On a incline of at least (I forget
how many) degrees, you would depress the brake and the clutch. You could then
release the brake and it would stay on until the clutch was high enough to engage the tranny and begin to move the car forward. No more rolling backward
or stalling and a lot less wear on the clutch.

If I recall correctly, they did with a ball inside the master cylinder
that would roll backward and seal something. I forget what made it release
once the vehicle had started moving, since you were often still on a hill.

I recently saw a commercial where some new vehicle had that feature. I'm sure
it's computer controlled now, not mechanical like back in the 80's.
There are numerous ways to design hill-holders. The simplest ( in
operation) would be a sprague that is engaged by the brake, locking
the transmission against reverse rotation EXCEPT when the shifter is
in reverse.

The old Soob used a cable and bellcrank setup that actually physically
locked the brake pedal down when the clutch was depressed.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 21:54:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/22/2017 9:39 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I had a 86 Subaru with a Hill Holder Clutch. On a incline of at least (I forget
how many) degrees, you would depress the brake and the clutch. You could then
release the brake and it would stay on until the clutch was high enough to engage the tranny and begin to move the car forward. No more rolling backward
or stalling and a lot less wear on the clutch.

If I recall correctly, they did with a ball inside the master cylinder
that would roll backward and seal something. I forget what made it release
once the vehicle had started moving, since you were often still on a hill.

I recently saw a commercial where some new vehicle had that feature. I'm sure
it's computer controlled now, not mechanical like back in the 80's.


Studebaker had it about 1950. My son had it on his Subaru. Nice feature.
The Stude system was part of the overdrive if I remember correctly. I
was right - just looked up the picture in my 1939 Motors Manual
(Twelfth Edition) Doesn't have any operation description butshows an
"inclinrd surface stationary stud". "ring weight" and "pawl" along
with a "notched ring" fritted on the "splined sleave" on the sun gear
of the overdrive - these parts do not exist on ODs without the hill
holder. On an incline the "stationary stud" slides back, allowing the
pawl to drop into the notched ring. It doesn't show the reverse
lockout but from what I remember reverse shifted the notched wheel off
the sungear spline but I can't swear to that.

On 2017-04-22 11:12 AM, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 12:27:33 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 18:37:12 +0300, Micky wrote:


1) The tires have not reached the supposed "must replace" level,
where the the tread is the same height as set of rubber bands that go
from one side of the tread to the other (I'm sure there's a name for
this), but the tread is only about twice that deep.

Somewhere I got the idea that major car rental companies replaced the
tires will before this level**. Am I wrong about that? **(and
that's one source of used tires).

I doubt companies like Hertz keep cars long enough to wear out tires.

It's Budget. I guess the name alone implies they keep them longer.
I ignored the owers manual because it's too long to read and it's in a
foreign language, but I will look at it to see what year car it is.

They used to emboss the year of American cars on tail light lenses,
and that was great, but I don't think they do it anymore.

They generally replace them on a 2 year cycle or when they get into
the 40-50k miles range.

This car doesn't have any miles on it. Only km, whatever that is.


Wow, the ugly American abroad....sheesh, talk about living the stereotype.


.... My friend tells me you can convert km to miles, so when I'm in
the car, I'll write down what the number is.


--

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:57:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/22/2017 1:12 PM, Micky wrote:


They used to emboss the year of American cars on tail light lenses,
and that was great, but I don't think they do it anymore.

Really? Never saw that on any of my cars, first one being a '53 Mercury.

Really. If you don't believe Micky (not that anyone would blame you)
ask this guy:

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I remember it well.



This car doesn't have any miles on it. Only km, whatever that is.

.... My friend tells me you can convert km to miles, so when I'm in
the car, I'll write down what the number is.

Multiply by .62 to get miles.

The scary part of his post was: "Only km, whatever that is."

You guys take everything so seriously! That was an example of
American Jingoism.


He needed someone to tell him that you can convert km to miles. Holy
crap!

Maybe it wasn't funny but you certainly should know it wasn't serious.

rbowman
Sun, 23 Apr 2017 00:30:45 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On 04/22/2017 06:08 PM, wrote:
You are SUPPOSED to use the parking brake, and also put it in
park before shutting it off.

Most of the time... I tend not to use the parking brake in the
winter. Bad memories.


Froze up?


--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

DerbyDad03
Sun, 23
Apr 2017 01:39:10 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 9:04:24 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:
On 4/22/2017 8:30 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 04/22/2017 06:08 PM, wrote:
You are SUPPOSED to use the parking brake, and also put it in
park before shutting it off.

Most of the time... I tend not to use the parking brake in the
winter. Bad memories.

Or after driving in rain when the temperature dropped at night.
BTDT

My Genesis has a feature called "Auto Hold". when you stop, the
brakes will stay so you can take your foot off the brake pedal.
When you put it in Park, it electronically sets the parking
brake.

The Auto Hold feature is really nice in traffic. Comes off very
smooth when you press the gas pedal.

I had a 86 Subaru with a Hill Holder Clutch. On a incline of at
least (I forget how many) degrees, you would depress the brake and
the clutch. You could then release the brake and it would stay on
until the clutch was high enough to engage the tranny and begin to
move the car forward. No more rolling backward or stalling and a
lot less wear on the clutch.

If I recall correctly, they did with a ball inside the master
cylinder that would roll backward and seal something. I forget
what made it release once the vehicle had started moving, since
you were often still on a hill.

I recently saw a commercial where some new vehicle had that
feature. I'm sure it's computer controlled now, not mechanical
like back in the 80's.

I've acquired an older automatic transmission import (1992) that
doesn't roll back on hills. Infact, you better make sure you have
your foot on the brakes if you put it in drive or reverse. It happily
pulls/backs up for you without you having to touch the peddle. It
also has independent fuel injection with direct ignition. And, it's
from 1992! Heh. It's a 4cylinder to boot. Not only does it drive like
a gokart on rails, it will absolutely frakking move if you step into
it. Another version of it has turbo. I'm not sure how much more
responsive that one is compared to this one. And, it has killer gas
mileage as long as you're not heavy on the pedal.






--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

Sun, 23 Apr 2017 00:26:28 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Way back in the seventies Toyota had a switch in the Odometer
that tripped turning on the "service engine soon" light.

My 89 B2600I Mazda (a real Mazda, not ford with Mazda decals) had a
switch on the odometer too. As soon as you rolled 200,000 on it, it
turned the service engine soon light on. Cycling start so many times (I
forgot the amount) turned the light back off.


--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 4:00:01 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:57:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/22/2017 1:12 PM, Micky wrote:


They used to emboss the year of American cars on tail light lenses,
and that was great, but I don't think they do it anymore.

Really? Never saw that on any of my cars, first one being a '53 Mercury.

Really. If you don't believe Micky (not that anyone would blame you)
ask this guy:

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I remember it well.



This car doesn't have any miles on it. Only km, whatever that is.

.... My friend tells me you can convert km to miles, so when I'm in
the car, I'll write down what the number is.

Multiply by .62 to get miles.

The scary part of his post was: "Only km, whatever that is."

You guys take everything so seriously! That was an example of
American Jingoism.


He needed someone to tell him that you can convert km to miles. Holy
crap!

Maybe it wasn't funny but you certainly should know it wasn't serious.

Certainly know? Are you kidding me? With the recent crap you've posted how can
anyone tell when you are being serious anymore?

Remember when you asked if tumbling clothes in a dryer for 2 hours was rougher on them
than hanging them on a line? Was that a serious question?

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:16:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 23:50:49 +0300, Micky wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 19:16:06 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


On 22-Apr-2017, Micky wrote:

This Kia Piccanto, requires your foot on the brake to go into
reverse. Probably a good idea. Also to go into Park.

So when I turn the car off while it's in Neutral, and I get out of the
car, and it starts rolling, I have to get back in the car while it's
rolling to put my foot on the brake to shift into Park!

I believe all cars are like this now-but I'm not putting money on it.
I guess you don't use the PARKING brake either...

Sometimes I do, if the situation calls for it.
Parking in Neutral ALWAYS calls for it - - - -

Not relevant to me. I don't park iln Neutral unless I make a mistake,
like I have 2 or 3 times with this car. I park in Park.

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 11:57:08 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:16:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 23:50:49 +0300, Micky wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 19:16:06 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


On 22-Apr-2017, Micky wrote:

This Kia Piccanto, requires your foot on the brake to go into
reverse. Probably a good idea. Also to go into Park.

So when I turn the car off while it's in Neutral, and I get out of the
car, and it starts rolling, I have to get back in the car while it's
rolling to put my foot on the brake to shift into Park!

I believe all cars are like this now-but I'm not putting money on it.
I guess you don't use the PARKING brake either...

Sometimes I do, if the situation calls for it.
Parking in Neutral ALWAYS calls for it - - - -

Not relevant to me. I don't park iln Neutral unless I make a mistake,
like I have 2 or 3 times with this car. I park in Park.

Let's review what you said earlier:

"What crap. I take very good care of the car, probably better than you
treat rentals."

2 or 3 mistakes in the short time you've had this car. It sounds more like
*luck* than caring that you haven't let this vehicle roll into a damaging
situation yet.

If you really cared, you'd pay attention to what gear it is in before you get
out - every time.

Not relevant to me. I don't park iln Neutral unless I make a mistake,
like I have 2 or 3 times with this car. I park in Park.



Does the key come out of the ignition when it is parked
while in neutral gear ? and no hand brake engaged
I thought the key would be part of the safety interlock .. ?
John T.

On 04/23/2017 04:24 AM, Diesel wrote:
rbowman
Sun, 23 Apr 2017 00:30:45 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On 04/22/2017 06:08 PM, wrote:
You are SUPPOSED to use the parking brake, and also put it in
park before shutting it off.

Most of the time... I tend not to use the parking brake in the
winter. Bad memories.


Froze up?

Yup. For real bad memories, laying under a Great Dane trailer with my 5
lb single jack beating on the drums until the brakes released. Then
there was the time I dragged a trailer with frozen brakes for a few
miles. Rough on the tires even with snow covered and icy pavement. I
used to put pennies on the trailer tires to make sure they were going
around but I was in a hurry to get out of town before they shut the
interstate down again. Milwaukee to Portland OR and **** all the way.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 10:59:49 +0300, Micky wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 17:57:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/22/2017 1:12 PM, Micky wrote:


They used to emboss the year of American cars on tail light lenses,
and that was great, but I don't think they do it anymore.

Really? Never saw that on any of my cars, first one being a '53 Mercury.

Really. If you don't believe Micky (not that anyone would blame you)
ask this guy:

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-.../dp/B00G5R4E9A

I remember it well.



This car doesn't have any miles on it. Only km, whatever that is.

.... My friend tells me you can convert km to miles, so when I'm in
the car, I'll write down what the number is.

Multiply by .62 to get miles.

The scary part of his post was: "Only km, whatever that is."

You guys take everything so seriously! That was an example of
American Jingoism.


He needed someone to tell him that you can convert km to miles. Holy
crap!

Maybe it wasn't funny but you certainly should know it wasn't serious.
Coming from you nobody can ever be certain of ANYTHING.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 18:56:54 +0300, Micky wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:16:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 23:50:49 +0300, Micky wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 19:16:06 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


On 22-Apr-2017, Micky wrote:

This Kia Piccanto, requires your foot on the brake to go into
reverse. Probably a good idea. Also to go into Park.

So when I turn the car off while it's in Neutral, and I get out of the
car, and it starts rolling, I have to get back in the car while it's
rolling to put my foot on the brake to shift into Park!

I believe all cars are like this now-but I'm not putting money on it.
I guess you don't use the PARKING brake either...

Sometimes I do, if the situation calls for it.
Parking in Neutral ALWAYS calls for it - - - -

Not relevant to me. I don't park iln Neutral unless I make a mistake,
like I have 2 or 3 times with this car. I park in Park.
Except when you don't. You need "belt and suspenders" to avoid being
"em Bare Assed" Always a good idea to use the parking brake on a grade
regardless.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 11:57:08 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:16:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 23:50:49 +0300, Micky wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 19:16:06 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


On 22-Apr-2017, Micky wrote:

This Kia Piccanto, requires your foot on the brake to go into
reverse. Probably a good idea. Also to go into Park.

So when I turn the car off while it's in Neutral, and I get out of the
car, and it starts rolling, I have to get back in the car while it's
rolling to put my foot on the brake to shift into Park!

I believe all cars are like this now-but I'm not putting money on it.
I guess you don't use the PARKING brake either...

Sometimes I do, if the situation calls for it.
Parking in Neutral ALWAYS calls for it - - - -

Not relevant to me. I don't park iln Neutral unless I make a mistake,
like I have 2 or 3 times with this car. I park in Park.

Let's review what you said earlier:

"What crap. I take very good care of the car, probably better than you
treat rentals."

2 or 3 mistakes in the short time you've had this car. It sounds more like
*luck* than caring that you haven't let this vehicle roll into a damaging
situation yet.

If you really cared, you'd pay attention to what gear it is in before you get
out - every time.
I'm betting on Akvavit. It's a bit stronger than his normal
American brew????

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 13:26:37 -0400, wrote:



Not relevant to me. I don't park iln Neutral unless I make a mistake,
like I have 2 or 3 times with this car. I park in Park.



Does the key come out of the ignition when it is parked
while in neutral gear ? and no hand brake engaged
I thought the key would be part of the safety interlock .. ?
John T.

If you pull hard enough you can get the key out in any position - - -
-
Then he has something else to ask silly questions about.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 11:57:08 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:16:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 23:50:49 +0300, Micky wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 19:16:06 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


On 22-Apr-2017, Micky wrote:

This Kia Piccanto, requires your foot on the brake to go into
reverse. Probably a good idea. Also to go into Park.

So when I turn the car off while it's in Neutral, and I get out of the
car, and it starts rolling, I have to get back in the car while it's
rolling to put my foot on the brake to shift into Park!

I believe all cars are like this now-but I'm not putting money on it.
I guess you don't use the PARKING brake either...

Sometimes I do, if the situation calls for it.
Parking in Neutral ALWAYS calls for it - - - -

Not relevant to me. I don't park iln Neutral unless I make a mistake,
like I have 2 or 3 times with this car. I park in Park.

Let's review what you said earlier:

"What crap. I take very good care of the car, probably better than you
treat rentals."

2 or 3 mistakes in the short time you've had this car. It sounds more like
*luck* than caring that you haven't let this vehicle roll into a damaging
situation yet.

If you really cared, you'd pay attention to what gear it is in before you get
out - every time.

Baloney. People, including you, do most of what they do by habit.
I've been parking in Park since my second or third car. (The first
one or two didbn't have Park), almost 50 years. If you still check
whether you're really in Park every time you park, you have OCD.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 13:26:37 -0400, wrote:



Not relevant to me. I don't park iln Neutral unless I make a mistake,
like I have 2 or 3 times with this car. I park in Park.



Does the key come out of the ignition when it is parked
while in neutral gear ? and no hand brake engaged

Yes and Yes. Probably what enables me to make this mistake. I'm not
used to that.


I thought the key would be part of the safety interlock .. ?
John T.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 18:46:52 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/22/2017 2:40 PM, Micky wrote:

So when I turn the car off while it's in Neutral, and I get out of the
car, and it starts rolling, I have to get back in the car while it's
rolling to put my foot on the brake to shift into Park!



Why not just put it in P when you stop?

I don't know, but it might be because this car, instead of a straight
line from one gear to the next, like every other car I ever had, has a
zig-zag path. To the right and up for reverse, farther to the right
and up some more, then to the left for park.

Downshifting requires to the right for 3rd aand to the right and back
for 2nd.

Having to put one's foot on the brake to get into reverse would also
make it harder to rock the car out of snow or mud. One coudl learn to
include the brake but I dont' think he could ever do it as quickly,
which matters a lot then.

I always did it that way and
never had a car roll away.

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 4:25:26 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 09:56:13 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 11:57:08 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 20:16:02 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 23:50:49 +0300, Micky wrote:

On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 19:16:06 GMT, "Tekkie®"
wrote:


On 22-Apr-2017, Micky wrote:

This Kia Piccanto, requires your foot on the brake to go into
reverse. Probably a good idea. Also to go into Park.

So when I turn the car off while it's in Neutral, and I get out of the
car, and it starts rolling, I have to get back in the car while it's
rolling to put my foot on the brake to shift into Park!

I believe all cars are like this now-but I'm not putting money on it.

On 04/24/2017 02:25 AM, Micky wrote:
Baloney. People, including you, do most of what they do by habit.
I've been parking in Park since my second or third car. (The first
one or two didbn't have Park), almost 50 years. If you still check
whether you're really in Park every time you park, you have OCD.

After 50 years of practice you've left a vehicle in neutral and walked
away in the last couple of weeks. You really need to talk to your
physician.

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:25:13 +0300, Micky wrote:



Baloney. People, including you, do most of what they do by habit.
I've been parking in Park since my second or third car. (The first
one or two didbn't have Park), almost 50 years. If you still check
whether you're really in Park every time you park, you have OCD.

I have not seen an automatic since the 60s that would let you get the
key out without it being in park. It originally started with the
anti-theft steering wheel locks (key on the steering column)

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:03:19 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:25:13 +0300, Micky wrote:



Baloney. People, including you, do most of what they do by habit.
I've been parking in Park since my second or third car. (The first
one or two didbn't have Park), almost 50 years. If you still check
whether you're really in Park every time you park, you have OCD.

I have not seen an automatic since the 60s that would let you get the
key out without it being in park. It originally started with the
anti-theft steering wheel locks (key on the steering column)
It actually started with cars rolling away when the shifters were
either bumped or not fully engaged in park - The solution was to make
it impossible to take out they key if not fully engaged (or at least
that was the theory)

On 04/24/2017 08:30 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

It's *you* that specifically stated that you have forgotten to put this vehicle in
Park 2 or 3 times in the short time that you have been driving it. That is sure proof
that you have not gotten into the "habit" of operating it correctly. You, yourself, have
even stated that you aren't really sure why.

Therefore, *you* need to check that it is in Park every time you want to exit the
vehicle. It has nothing to do with OCD. It has everything to do with the fact that you
have been operating it incorrectly and until such time that it either becomes "habit" or
you return the vehicle, it would behoove you to check that it is in Park every time.

Some people call it "thinking about what you are doing". Try it and see how it works for you.


To me putting it in park, setting the parking brake, removing the key,
and getting out or the car (HOLD the key while closing the door) are
parts of the SAME action. Is becomes next to impossible to do one
without the others.

There was one time I had to (because of a dead battery), and it was
difficult to get out of the car while it was still running.

BTW, that's the battery I got replaced free less than a month before the
"free replacement" ran out.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The Bible is a book that has been read more and examined less than any
book that ever existed." [The Theological Works of Thomas Paine]

Mon,
24 Apr 2017 16:03:19 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:25:13 +0300, Micky wrote:



Baloney. People, including you, do most of what they do by habit.
I've been parking in Park since my second or third car. (The first
one or two didbn't have Park), almost 50 years. If you still check
whether you're really in Park every time you park, you have OCD.

I have not seen an automatic since the 60s that would let you get the
key out without it being in park. It originally started with the
anti-theft steering wheel locks (key on the steering column)

Prior to writing this post, I went outside and verified the
following...

The 92 import I've acquired lets me turn it off in park, neutral,
drive, or reverse and remove the key. The ignition switch as well as
the key I've got for it appear to be factory, without anything wrong
with either of them...The shifter isn't on the column, it's in the
center console. I suspect that makes the difference.





--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

On 04/24/2017 06:26 PM, Diesel wrote:
The 92 import I've acquired lets me turn it off in park, neutral,
drive, or reverse and remove the key. The ignition switch as well as
the key I've got for it appear to be factory, without anything wrong
with either of them...The shifter isn't on the column, it's in the
center console. I suspect that makes the difference.

No, the shift in my Toyota is in the console and you can't remove the
key unless it's in park, nor can you start the engine unless you're on
the brake. The previous Toyota was a manual and iirc you could remove
the key in any position.

rbowman
Tue, 25 Apr 2017 04:07:58 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On 04/24/2017 06:26 PM, Diesel wrote:
The 92 import I've acquired lets me turn it off in park, neutral,
drive, or reverse and remove the key. The ignition switch as well
as the key I've got for it appear to be factory, without anything
wrong with either of them...The shifter isn't on the column, it's
in the center console. I suspect that makes the difference.

No, the shift in my Toyota is in the console and you can't remove
the key unless it's in park, nor can you start the engine unless
you're on the brake. The previous Toyota was a manual and iirc you
could remove the key in any position.


I'm just telling you what my 92 SAAB 9000S lets me do. Now, it will
not engage the solenoid if I'm not in park or neutral. However, I'm
free to insert/remove the key and shut it down if it's already
running in any gear. It just won't let me try to start it if it's not
in park or neutral. There's nothing on the electrical schematic I
have for the car to force it to hold the key, and, as far as I can
tell, nothing in the diagrams I've got on the switching assembly
itself, either. It seems to be a solid ignition switch, not loose or
anything, so... this particular car seems to lack the ability to keep
my key until I put it in park. I don't have to be on the brakes to
start it, either, but.. I've learned from personal experience that if
I'm not on the brakes and I shift into drive, it's going to move, on
it's own without me touching the gas. It doesn't just sit and idle if
it's in forward or reverse. It pulls in drive and backs up in reverse
on it's own, as soon as I let off the brakes. Very nice for a stop
sign at the top of a hill. No roll back effect. It just pulls itself
forward while it's 'idling' at 1000 on the tach. None of my other
rides do this, but, this one does.



--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

On 25/04/2017 11:12, Diesel wrote:
I've learned from personal experience that if
I'm not on the brakes and I shift into drive, it's going to move, on
it's own without me touching the gas. It doesn't just sit and idle if
it's in forward or reverse. It pulls in drive and backs up in reverse
on it's own, as soon as I let off the brakes. Very nice for a stop
sign at the top of a hill. No roll back effect. It just pulls itself
forward while it's 'idling' at 1000 on the tach.

It is *designed* to be like that!

"A torque converter works much like two fans facing one another, one
running (the engine), one not (the trans.). Even at low speeds (idle),
the running fan still has enough airflow to turn the other. Hence, even
at idle, the engine is able to turn the trans ......"

None of my other rides do this, but, this one does.

THIS one is set up correctly! :-)

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer)

On 4/25/2017 12:07 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 04/24/2017 06:26 PM, Diesel wrote:
The 92 import I've acquired lets me turn it off in park, neutral,
drive, or reverse and remove the key. The ignition switch as well as
the key I've got for it appear to be factory, without anything wrong
with either of them...The shifter isn't on the column, it's in the
center console. I suspect that makes the difference.

No, the shift in my Toyota is in the console and you can't remove the
key unless it's in park, nor can you start the engine unless you're on
the brake. The previous Toyota was a manual and iirc you could remove
the key in any position.

Many cars no longer have a key. Now people park them in the garage
under the bedroom and leave them running. A few people have been killed
from it.

On 4/25/2017 6:12 AM, Diesel wrote:


I'm just telling you what my 92 SAAB 9000S lets me do. Now, it will
not engage the solenoid if I'm not in park or neutral. However, I'm
free to insert/remove the key and shut it down if it's already
running in any gear. It just won't let me try to start it if it's not
in park or neutral. There's nothing on the electrical schematic I
have for the car to force it to hold the key, and, as far as I can
tell, nothing in the diagrams I've got on the switching assembly
itself, either. It seems to be a solid ignition switch, not loose or
anything, so... this particular car seems to lack the ability to keep
my key until I put it in park. I don't have to be on the brakes to
start it, either, but.. I've learned from personal experience that if
I'm not on the brakes and I shift into drive, it's going to move, on
it's own without me touching the gas.


Are you shifting into drive from P or N? Not sure when it became
effective but it is required to press the brake to get out of Park. I
thought it was in the 80's but not sure.
This has been revised and has many date but covers it
49 CFR 571.102 - STANDARD NO. 102;
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.102

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:54:43 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 25/04/2017 11:12, Diesel wrote:
I've learned from personal experience that if
I'm not on the brakes and I shift into drive, it's going to move, on
it's own without me touching the gas. It doesn't just sit and idle if
it's in forward or reverse. It pulls in drive and backs up in reverse
on it's own, as soon as I let off the brakes. Very nice for a stop
sign at the top of a hill. No roll back effect. It just pulls itself
forward while it's 'idling' at 1000 on the tach.

It is *designed* to be like that!

"A torque converter works much like two fans facing one another, one
running (the engine), one not (the trans.). Even at low speeds (idle),
the running fan still has enough airflow to turn the other. Hence, even
at idle, the engine is able to turn the trans ......"

None of my other rides do this, but, this one does.

THIS one is set up correctly! :-)
Perhaps not. The ideal setup is where the idle speed is low enough
that the car BARELY creaps when put in gear. just going off-idle
should make the vehicle start to move either forward or back depending
on what position the shifter is in.

On 25/04/2017 17:43, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:54:43 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 25/04/2017 11:12, Diesel wrote:
I've learned from personal experience that if
I'm not on the brakes and I shift into drive, it's going to move, on
it's own without me touching the gas. It doesn't just sit and idle if
it's in forward or reverse. It pulls in drive and backs up in reverse
on it's own, as soon as I let off the brakes. Very nice for a stop
sign at the top of a hill. No roll back effect. It just pulls itself
forward while it's 'idling' at 1000 on the tach.

It is *designed* to be like that!

"A torque converter works much like two fans facing one another, one
running (the engine), one not (the trans.). Even at low speeds (idle),
the running fan still has enough airflow to turn the other. Hence, even
at idle, the engine is able to turn the trans ......"

None of my other rides do this, but, this one does.

THIS one is set up correctly! :-)

Perhaps not. The ideal setup is where the idle speed is low enough
that the car BARELY creaps when put in gear. just going off-idle
should make the vehicle start to move either forward or back depending
on what position the shifter is in.

I don't disagree.

There SHOULD be some creep! ;-)

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:14:14 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 25/04/2017 17:43, wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:54:43 +0100, "David B."
wrote:

On 25/04/2017 11:12, Diesel wrote:
I've learned from personal experience that if
I'm not on the brakes and I shift into drive, it's going to move, on
it's own without me touching the gas. It doesn't just sit and idle if
it's in forward or reverse. It pulls in drive and backs up in reverse
on it's own, as soon as I let off the brakes. Very nice for a stop
sign at the top of a hill. No roll back effect. It just pulls itself
forward while it's 'idling' at 1000 on the tach.

It is *designed* to be like that!

"A torque converter works much like two fans facing one another, one
running (the engine), one not (the trans.). Even at low speeds (idle),
the running fan still has enough airflow to turn the other. Hence, even
at idle, the engine is able to turn the trans ......"

None of my other rides do this, but, this one does.

THIS one is set up correctly! :-)

Perhaps not. The ideal setup is where the idle speed is low enough
that the car BARELY creaps when put in gear. just going off-idle
should make the vehicle start to move either forward or back depending
on what position the shifter is in.

I don't disagree.

There SHOULD be some creep! ;-)
With the idle properly adjusted on older vehicles, virtually no creep
on a level surface. Today's computer controlled engines don't let you
adjust idle - but fully warmed up at idle my Taurus just BARELY creaps
when left idling in gear. On any kind of uphill grade it will roll
back when idling in gear (it will roll back my driveway - roughly a 4
inch in 12 feet slope at the top)

Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:43:39 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Perhaps not. The ideal setup is where the idle speed is low
enough that the car BARELY creaps when put in gear. just going
off-idle should make the vehicle start to move either forward or
back depending on what position the shifter is in.

I should have been more specific. It doesn't creep and then stop/hold
in place waiting for me to give it a little on the gas pedal to
continue rolling. like the other automatics I have will; which is
what I'm used to. I mean, it acts like i'm giving it a little gas to
move.

Not quite enough to do 5mph mind you, but, enough to move and have
power while doing so. I have complete schematics to every piece of
the car, via alldata/mitchell and a complete electrical diagram I
acquired from a SAAB dealership in partial trade for some
computer/electrical work I performed for them.

According to the same dealership, it's performing exactly as is
expected, and, I'm just 'too used to other imports/american cars'
It's actually the first 'car' car I've owned. I'm a truck/van guy
myself. But, I got it for a deal I couldn't pass up. I traded a used
laptop that I rebuilt and had maybe, $50 US in. It's so gentle on
gas, unless i've got my foot in it, that it's become one of my daily
drivers. I can fill it up for about $20 us dollars and drive the hell
out of it for nearly a week and a half before it gets to 1/4th a
tank. I don't like to run any of my vehicles that low on gas for any
length of time because it's hard on the fuel pump to do so. I'm very
pleased with it, so far. It's responsive on the throttle, easy on the
gas, and sticks to the road!






--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

Ed Pawlowski Tue,
25 Apr 2017 14:31:20 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Are you shifting into drive from P or N?

I can shift into drive from either position. It will only allow me to
start it from those positions. I can't start it while in drive, but, I
can shut it down while in drive. Out of force of habit and proper driving
technique, I'm always on the brake pedal when I goto start it or shift
out of park/neutral, but, there's nothing forcing me to be.


Not sure when it became
effective but it is required to press the brake to get out of
Park. I thought it was in the 80's but not sure.
This has been revised and has many date but covers it
49 CFR 571.102 - STANDARD NO. 102;
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.102

[ 70 FR 38051, July 1, 2005, as amended at 70 FR 75965, Dec. 22, 2005]

The particular car I'm discussing was made in 1992. if I'm not in p or n,
it won't let me engage the solenoid, but, it will let me shut the car off
in any gear I desire and pull the key out of the ignition switch.





--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

On 26/04/2017 02:36, Diesel wrote:

I don't like to run any of my vehicles that low on gas for any
length of time because it's hard on the fuel pump to do so.

Would you care to explain the logic behind that statement?

--
David B.
Saab owner!

On 4/26/2017 4:19 AM, David B. wrote:
On 26/04/2017 02:36, Diesel wrote:

I don't like to run any of my vehicles that low on gas for any
length of time because it's hard on the fuel pump to do so.

Would you care to explain the logic behind that statement?


I don't know if he is correct, but a lot of people would agree with
that. The pump is cooled by the gas in the tank and if it gets low the
pump could run hotter.
http://walbrofuelpumps.com/why-fuel-pumps-fail

In article , says...

On 4/26/2017 4:19 AM, David B. wrote:
On 26/04/2017 02:36, Diesel wrote:

I don't like to run any of my vehicles that low on gas for any
length of time because it's hard on the fuel pump to do so.

Would you care to explain the logic behind that statement?


I don't know if he is correct, but a lot of people would agree with
that. The pump is cooled by the gas in the tank and if it gets low the
pump could run hotter.
http://walbrofuelpumps.com/why-fuel-pumps-fail

In saw more in-tank pumps go bad due to clogged up fuel filters, in part
because of rust caused by condensation from tanks always being run low. A
full tank keeps the condensation low. Ethanol adds to the problem by
mixing that rusty water in with the gasoline so the filter catches it and
gets clogged up, causing the pump to have to work harder to deliver the
gas.

BTW, I wrote this before clacking on your link, so, sorry for being
redundant! [g]

--
RonNNN

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 09:18:44 -0500, RonNNN wrote:

In article , says...

On 4/26/2017 4:19 AM, David B. wrote:
On 26/04/2017 02:36, Diesel wrote:

I don't like to run any of my vehicles that low on gas for any
length of time because it's hard on the fuel pump to do so.

Would you care to explain the logic behind that statement?


I don't know if he is correct, but a lot of people would agree with
that. The pump is cooled by the gas in the tank and if it gets low the
pump could run hotter.
http://walbrofuelpumps.com/why-fuel-pumps-fail

In saw more in-tank pumps go bad due to clogged up fuel filters, in part
because of rust caused by condensation from tanks always being run low. A
full tank keeps the condensation low. Ethanol adds to the problem by
mixing that rusty water in with the gasoline so the filter catches it and
gets clogged up, causing the pump to have to work harder to deliver the
gas.

BTW, I wrote this before clacking on your link, so, sorry for being
redundant! [g]

On the other hand the ethanol gets the water out right away instead of
allowing it to collect in the bottom of the tank. Condensation is not
as big a deal these days since tanks are not freely vented to air.
They breathe through a carbon filter.