I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

Thanks,

Chris Nail

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:46:38 -0800, Chris Nail wrote:

I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm saw
vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around his
home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a clue
about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw some.
Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or compare the
two?

SCMS
less expensive new
more portable than RAS
less setup and tuning than RAS

RAS
Able to rip as well as crosscut
able to do fixed height operations such as dados
as well as dado stacks, can use molding heads, drill chucks and more
has wider crosscut capacity than (some) SCMS

- Doug

--

To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)

Doug Winterburn wrote:
....good comparative points between RAS and SCMS...

I'd only add that to get anyways close to the precision of a decent
miter saw in a RAS will entail getting a much more expensive RAS.
They're really two completely different animals for differing purposes.
While some functions can overlap, choice of which to get should be
driven by need/usage.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:21:40 -0600, Duane Bozarth wrote:

Doug Winterburn wrote:
...good comparative points between RAS and SCMS...

I'd only add that to get anyways close to the precision of a decent miter
saw in a RAS will entail getting a much more expensive RAS. They're really
two completely different animals for differing purposes. While some
functions can overlap, choice of which to get should be driven by
need/usage.

Again, I believe that your point is corrected by proper setup and tuning
of the RAS. I'm on my second relatively inexpensive RAS in 34 years. The
first was a Monkey Wards PowrKraft that went 33 years before all the smoke
escaped. I believe it cost in the neighborhood of $179. Last year, I had
to replace it and bought the Searz Craftsman $550 saw. I hear constant
criticism of the RAS in general, and Craftsman in particular, but with
proper setup and alignment (which I don't have to redo but every few
years), both these saws are/were dead on accurate with repeatable accuracy
even after changing bevel/miter/height and rip/crosscut settings. Anyone
who follows the Jonathon Eakes RAS book for setup and tuning will have
similar results. Even the fabled DeWalt RAS will have problems if
not setup and aligned properly.

- Doug

--

To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)

"Chris Nail" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

Thanks,

Chris Nail

Kinda like comparing a Corvette and an 18 wheeler. They will both cut wood,
but the Radial Arm Saw will do basic functions that a sliding compound miter
saw will never do. Like rip a board. If you need to make boards narrower
and accurately forget the slider.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
All the inexpensive ones I've seen (including my own) simply aren't
rigid enough nor precise enough in the locking mechanisms to be all that
repeatable. Yours apparently is at least enough to satisfy you for what
you use it for...

As usual, ymmv, imo, $0.02, etc., ...

"Chris Nail" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

I have both in my shop. My chopsaw is nice because it is portable if
necessary and changing angles and bevels is fast and accurate.

I like the ras because it will crosscut (which is my primary use) up to 14".
My chopsaw will only crosscut 8". I'm just the type of guy that needs both.
SH

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:57:21 -0600, Duane Bozarth wrote:

Doug Winterburn wrote:
All the inexpensive ones I've seen (including my own) simply aren't rigid
enough nor precise enough in the locking mechanisms to be all that
repeatable. Yours apparently is at least enough to satisfy you for what
you use it for...

As usual, ymmv, imo, $0.02, etc., ...

Yup, accurate and repeatable satisfies me :-) As Eakes puts it:

"Things that move must move smoothly and firmly."
"Things that should not move, must not move."

- Doug

--

To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)

Doug Winterburn wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:57:21 -0600, Duane Bozarth wrote:

Doug Winterburn wrote:
All the inexpensive ones I've seen (including my own) simply aren't rigid
enough nor precise enough in the locking mechanisms to be all that
repeatable. Yours apparently is at least enough to satisfy you for what
you use it for...

As usual, ymmv, imo, $0.02, etc., ...

Yup, accurate and repeatable satisfies me :-) As Eakes puts it:

"Things that move must move smoothly and firmly."
"Things that should not move, must not move."

I like that...
Sorta' like Einsten's "Things should be as simple as possible, but not
simpler."

I've just not seen one of the cheaper Sears or my old inexpensive
DeWalt/B&D that was the first "woodworking" tool I bought in about '79
or '80 that would actually satisfy the second of the two criteria. Fine
for light work but just not sturdy enough for heavy. I use it now
almost exclusively for cutoff saw as it's too underpowered for much of
what I otherwise used to use it for when I had no choice. When (read
IF ) I get the shop moved up to the haymow so if have the room, I
intend to get an Original Saw Company behemoth if I can eventually
locate one for a reasonable price.

"Chris Nail" wrote in message
oups.com...
I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

Thanks,

Chris Nail

Hi, Chris,

IMHO, the other posters have pretty much hit the nail on the head. The only
thing that I would reinforce is to consider the RAS/CMS in conjunction with
the other tools in your friend's shop. If he has limited space and doesn't
have room for a table saw, then the RAS will be much closer to the Holy
Grail of the "Universal Machine", since it can rip as well as crosscut.

As other posters have indicated, the RAS is pretty much "Jack-of-all-Trades
(no diss intended, Theo!) -and-Master-of-None. It's more hassle and less
safe than a dedicated table saw for ripping. It's bulkier and less-portable
and - in the cheaper sector - than a CMS for crosscutting and transporting.
OTOH, you can use it for dadoing, tenoning etc, so it's more versatile.
Some models you can remove the blade, fit a router bracket so you can have
radial-arm routing. CMS's, however, are (generally!) more accurate and more
predictable for straight-forward crosscutting and mitring.

I have both, as well as a decent table saw for ripping.. If I want my RAS
to have ultimate accuracy, then I have to check the settings very
frequently - they do wander (I have a DeWalt 720). It gets used for mainly
cross-cutting and tenon shoulders or housings in the shop. The CMS
(actually, SCMS) gets used for cross-cutting and mitring on site work. I
don't have to worry too much about the set-up. It seems to keep its
accuracy however much abuse it gets in transit.

Having said that, there's a price point to everything - if you buy a cheap
Chiwanese CMS from a large pile-'em-high, sell-'em-cheap (thinking of B&Q in
the UK!), then all bets are off. Some of the kit is great (or at least
adequate) and other stuff is entirely wasted money. It might be cheap, but
it will let you down in some respect every time, there will be no
pride-of-possession, and you'll hate it. Whatever your friend goes for,
RAS, CMS or SCMS, tell him to do his homework on the particular brand of
machine. As we often say here on the "Wreck", if you buy a good tool, you
only have to cry once. If you buy a poor tool, then you cry when you buy,
then you cry when you have to replace the POS for something that will
actually do the job.

If God said to me that I could only have one or the other, then it would
have to be the RAS from a versatility viewpoint. But I would sulk. There's
room for both, unless you are limited for space, or dosh, or both.

My tuppence-worth.

Cheers,

Frank

On 10 Feb 2005 07:46:38 -0800, "Chris Nail"
wrote:

I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

Thanks,

Chris Nail
==================================
I am another guy who owns both ....although my CMS is NOT a sliding
CMS... and my Radial Arm saw has not been moved off a 90 degree cut
in the last 10-15 years that I can remember...

For home improvement work etc... my choice would be a regular CMS..
(I have not found any real need for the sliding feature) ...at least
Not that I remember.... the reasons I bought the saw as of course
trim work and portability...

If I was a young man and was just setting up my woodshop I most likely
would forget about the RAS and go with a SLIDING CMS....but honestly
just to save space...I find the RAS required almost an entire wall in
my shop...

In my shop...I do use my RAS ...as a cut off saw.. or an ocassional
dado etc.. and I Never pull out the CMS just no reason to ..

Hope this helps your friend ... it really all comes down to what he
really needs to use the machine for... sorry but for doing a few
picture frames I still go straight for my Tablesaw..for cutting the
miters

Bob Griffiths
..

Chris Nail wrote:

I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

If it's going to be the only saw in his shop and those are the choices then
the RAS, no question--it's a general-purpose saw, not specialized for one
cut--it can do most of what a table saw can do, most of what a SCM saw can
do, and has a few tricks of its own, but to get it to work satisfactorily
will take some effort in the initial setup and regular monitoring to make
sure it hasn't gone off adjustment. If on the other hand, he's looking for
something specifically for miters and other angled cuts and already has a
table saw then the SCM will likely be a better bet for him--since those are
all it does the design is optimized for the purpose.

If he does go with the RAS, though, make sure he gets the Jon Eakes and Mr.
Sawdust (just google those names and you should find them quickly enough)
books on the RAS. Lots of good advice there.

Thanks,

Chris Nail

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:21:40 -0600, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

Doug Winterburn wrote:
...good comparative points between RAS and SCMS...

I'd only add that to get anyways close to the precision of a decent
miter saw in a RAS will entail getting a much more expensive RAS.
They're really two completely different animals for differing purposes.
While some functions can overlap, choice of which to get should be
driven by need/usage.

Duane.. I'd agree with your statement, except that the OP was asking about a
SLIDING CMS.. I've heard lots of complaints about the sliding saws regarding
accuracy and "twist" of the saw..

OTOH, the RAS took me a lot more getting used to and had more to learn than the
CMS.. it still feels weird to have the work on the bottom and the blade on top,
moving.. but both of the above do that..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:21:40 -0600, Duane Bozarth
wrote:

Doug Winterburn wrote:
...good comparative points between RAS and SCMS...

I'd only add that to get anyways close to the precision of a decent
miter saw in a RAS will entail getting a much more expensive RAS.
They're really two completely different animals for differing purposes.
While some functions can overlap, choice of which to get should be
driven by need/usage.

Duane.. I'd agree with your statement, except that the OP was asking about a
SLIDING CMS.. I've heard lots of complaints about the sliding saws regarding
accuracy and "twist" of the saw..

OTOH, the RAS took me a lot more getting used to and had more to learn than the
CMS.. it still feels weird to have the work on the bottom and the blade on top,
moving.. but both of the above do that..
....

My comparison was basically on the relative cost of the two for roughly
equivalent "precision" (for lack of better short description)--my
experience has been the RAS will be significantly more expensive to get
similar performance than the CMS--not that there aren't junk CMS's. The
number of RAS being made now makes some of my past experience not so
applicable though as there aren't as many on the low end. I tend to
write off Craftsman stuff any more so theirs could be now more
substantial than I think. As noted, I keep watching for an Original for
a price, but they're not many of them anybody lets go! Of course
I've seen quite a number of large older Delta/Rockwell/other, but w/
integrable motors the 3-phase is a pita as I really don't want to go the
converter route (expense, almost exclusively).

Using either CMS or RAS is, indeed a different beastie! As in all, care
and most of all, thinking of what one is doing are crucial. W/ time,
like w/ any other activity, it becomes much more natural. Having mine
for 30 years or so now, I've become quite accustomed to it although I no
longer use it for everything as I did initially.

My dad bought a brand-new 12" DeWalt RAS which was eventually offered
to me when he passed and I turned it down. It was too big for my
needs, and frankly I was always tentative with that animal. Can any
of you guys remember when DeWalts were painted a speckled mint green,
had a metal stand and had handles for lugging it around? That's the
baby. We had it semi-permanently located with fixed 8' benches on
either side of it, each bench obviously having a "fence" that matched
the DW and there was a garage door at one end and about 6' of dead
space to the back wall at the other end. Great cross-cut tool, but I
never liked ripping with that blade where it was. I think the saw was
about 36" wide itself.

I have a 10" TS (Sears) and a 8½" SCMS (Hitachi) that can cut 12" if I
need it. I love the Hitachi because it works so well, is soooo
portable, and stores easily. I can honestly say that if I hit the
jackpot and wanted to re-equip, I'd never by a RAS. But that's just
me, plenty of others here love'em. BTW, most times I'm either bearing
down, or pushing the SCMS into the cut... rather than pulling it thru
like I did with the DW.

As many here have said, his decision will be based on a lot of
variables including space, money, quality, type of work, safety, and
more. Whatever floats his boat.

Mike


On 10 Feb 2005 07:46:38 -0800, "Chris Nail"
wrote:

I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

Thanks,

Chris Nail

I have a Craftsman RAS, circa 1980, which has been a good worker for 25
years. My shop is my garage, so the RAS, which hugs the wall, fits better
than a table saw. I agree that ripping with the RAS can be scary,
especially on hardwood, but many times I need to rip pieces less than 36"
long. I made an auxilliary fence that clamps to the regular fence at right
angles. It can be quickly clamped in place at the right distance, trued
with a square and clamped at the other end. Then I can rip with the end
against the regular fence with no problem and no fear of the piece binding
and shooting at me. On the other side of the saw from me is a window - I
have never shot a wood projecile at it.

When I have to rip a longer piece, I use my bandsaw first.

Steve

wrote in message
...
My dad bought a brand-new 12" DeWalt RAS which was eventually offered
to me when he passed and I turned it down. It was too big for my
needs, and frankly I was always tentative with that animal. Can any
of you guys remember when DeWalts were painted a speckled mint green,
had a metal stand and had handles for lugging it around? That's the
baby. We had it semi-permanently located with fixed 8' benches on
either side of it, each bench obviously having a "fence" that matched
the DW and there was a garage door at one end and about 6' of dead
space to the back wall at the other end. Great cross-cut tool, but I
never liked ripping with that blade where it was. I think the saw was
about 36" wide itself.

I have a 10" TS (Sears) and a 8½" SCMS (Hitachi) that can cut 12" if I
need it. I love the Hitachi because it works so well, is soooo
portable, and stores easily. I can honestly say that if I hit the
jackpot and wanted to re-equip, I'd never by a RAS. But that's just
me, plenty of others here love'em. BTW, most times I'm either bearing
down, or pushing the SCMS into the cut... rather than pulling it thru
like I did with the DW.

As many here have said, his decision will be based on a lot of
variables including space, money, quality, type of work, safety, and
more. Whatever floats his boat.

Mike


On 10 Feb 2005 07:46:38 -0800, "Chris Nail"
wrote:

I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

Thanks,

Chris Nail

In article .com,
"Chris Nail" wrote:

I've got a friend that is contemplating the purchase of a radial arm
saw vs. a sliding compound miter saw. Most of the work will be around
his home as he's doing "home improvement" type work. I don't have a
clue about a radial arm saw but have used a sliding compound miter saw
some. Could you all please give some advantages/disadvantages or
compare the two?

Thanks,

Chris Nail

Anything but a RAS.
I just can't see any reason to have a blade whirring away on the end of
a wobbly arm, looking for a piece of material to grab and zing it across
the shop.... including an arm.
Too damned dangerous for my liking. I have always hated RAS's. I have
used many over the years... I am cautious around all tools, but I only
fear one...the RAS....radial ARM saw....
I turn it on... it ramps up to speed and looks at me...I know it wants a
body part....
Everybody, at one time or another, has their mind drift away from the
task at hand. The RAS will take full advantage and shred your flesh as
it crawl up the length of your arm...making sure NO plastic/neuro
surgeon will ever put any of that back together.
Did I mention that I don't like RAS's?

0¿0

Rob

Anything but a RAS.
I just can't see any reason to have a blade whirring away on the end of
a wobbly arm, looking for a piece of material to grab and zing it across
the shop.... including an arm.
Too damned dangerous for my liking. I have always hated RAS's. I have
used many over the years... I am cautious around all tools, but I only
fear one...the RAS....radial ARM saw....
I turn it on... it ramps up to speed and looks at me...I know it wants a
body part....
Everybody, at one time or another, has their mind drift away from the
task at hand. The RAS will take full advantage and shred your flesh as
it crawl up the length of your arm...making sure NO plastic/neuro
surgeon will ever put any of that back together.
Did I mention that I don't like RAS's?

0¿0

Rob

========================
Even though I have owned a RAS for over 40 years and that I still use
it.. I can not say that it am in any way in love with the saw...far
from it ...it works with enough accuracy for the tasks I assign it...

BUT ... I do think your comments are a little overboard,,

Bob Griffiths

In article ,
Bob G. wrote:


[snip]
I turn it on... it ramps up to speed and looks at me...I know it wants a
body part....
Everybody, at one time or another, has their mind drift away from the
task at hand. The RAS will take full advantage and shred your flesh as
it crawl up the length of your arm...making sure NO plastic/neuro
surgeon will ever put any of that back together.


BUT ... I do think your comments are a little overboard,,

The way I look at a RAS and the way I describe it, is an obvious
embellishment used to illustrate a point. (I really haven't had a RAS
actually 'look' at me...)
I try to keeps things 'light'. There is enough heavy **** going on all
around us.
I appreciate your calling my comments a 'little' overboard. Others
aren't that kind.

0¿-

Rob

I try to keeps things 'light'. There is enough heavy **** going on all
around us.
I appreciate your calling my comments a 'little' overboard. Others
aren't that kind.


Rob

=============
Nothing wrong with keeping things a little lite.... and I did honestly
think your comments were offered "tongue in cheek "...

Bob

Unfortunately, while there are far fewer RAS's than TS's, some of them
are pretty poor. The RAS also takes far more effort in setup and
alignment. When moving my shop, it took about an hour to setup the TS,
but most of a day for the RAS. OTOH, my particular RAS is stable and
repeatable, and gets a lot of heavy use. As with the TS, there are
methods and techniques, though they are less well known. For instance, a
marker strip at the front table edge together with a pointer rod allows
me to quickly swing the arm to any angle with nearly the same accuracy
as my Incra on the TS, and is just as quick.

For crosscuts and dadoes on large projects, it's much faster, and some
projects are nearly all done between the panel saw and RAS.

Still, it's not for everyone. Much more care is needed when ripping or
molding, and if you don't have the right techniques, guides and
holddowns in place, you shouldn't do it.

As for schredding your flesh if you're not watching carefully, I suggest
that, if that's possible, then you're doing it wrong, with the RAS, TS
or whatever. We've seen pictures of people cutting off fingers (or
hands) with a RAS, but never why the hands were there in the first
place. My same TS pushstick is used on the RAS, and my hands are far
away. There's no more reason to have your hands near a RAS blade then to
do the same on a TS.

As to the wobbling arm, I have to agree. Some are like that and, if you
can't fix it, I wouldn't use it. Junk comes in all forms. And few people
find themselves proficient with all tools, nor do they enjoy all
tools. Whatever safe and efficient method you develop for getting the
job done is always fine.

And 'light' is always good, too.

GerryG

Bob G. wrote:
I try to keeps things 'light'. There is enough heavy **** going on all
around us.
I appreciate your calling my comments a 'little' overboard. Others
aren't that kind.



Rob


=============
Nothing wrong with keeping things a little lite.... and I did honestly
think your comments were offered "tongue in cheek "...

Bob

Hi guys, I do have a radial saw and I love it but it will not do everything,
a table saw would be nice to go along with it. I must saw the RAS can be
dangerous but most of that is cause by dull blades. You must have a good
sharp blade in it at all times. Like any machine you must respect it and
use it safely. If you are scared of any machine, do not use it. Have you
ever seen a guy on a motorcycle that is scared of them, stay home the days
he is on the road.

My saw quit on my last winter, sears wanted $1000 for a new one and $460 for
a motor but mine was too old and I could not get a motor. I had the motor
rewounded for $270 and it works great.
"Bob G." wrote in message
...

Anything but a RAS.
I just can't see any reason to have a blade whirring away on the end of
a wobbly arm, looking for a piece of material to grab and zing it across
the shop.... including an arm.
Too damned dangerous for my liking. I have always hated RAS's. I have
used many over the years... I am cautious around all tools, but I only
fear one...the RAS....radial ARM saw....
I turn it on... it ramps up to speed and looks at me...I know it wants a
body part....
Everybody, at one time or another, has their mind drift away from the
task at hand. The RAS will take full advantage and shred your flesh as
it crawl up the length of your arm...making sure NO plastic/neuro
surgeon will ever put any of that back together.
Did I mention that I don't like RAS's?

0¿0

Rob

========================
Even though I have owned a RAS for over 40 years and that I still use
it.. I can not say that it am in any way in love with the saw...far
from it ...it works with enough accuracy for the tasks I assign it...

BUT ... I do think your comments are a little overboard,,

Bob Griffiths

GerryG wrote:


As with the TS, there are
methods and techniques, though they are less well known. For instance, a
marker strip at the front table edge together with a pointer rod allows
me to quickly swing the arm to any angle with nearly the same accuracy
as my Incra on the TS, and is just as quick.

Elaborate, please. I like the idea of a rule at or near the front of
the table calibrated for angle, but what is the "pointer rod" to which
you refer?

As I think of it, I wonder if that might be a way that a laser cutline
attachment might be actually useful.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.