So I know I'm over-thinking, but this will give a chance for some of the
folks with electrical religion to let off some steam.

I have 3 machines that all need short (10 ft) extension cords:
* 1.5 HP dust collector
* 1 HP band saw
* 1 HP jointer
All run on 110 volts.

I've read everything from "don't ever use extension cords with woodworking
machines" to "14 gauge, 50 ft cord is fine."

The dust collector says that its max draw is 18 amps. I can't find any
extension cord, no matter what gauge, that says it is rated for more than 15
amps. That seems odd to me since an extension cord doesn't seem
fundamentally different than Romex to me.

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

I was going to get 10 gauge for all of them, but the 10 is twice as much as
the 12 and I'm not convinced I need the extra weight.

Any thoughts?

Mark

"Mark Wells" wrote in message
ink.net...
So I know I'm over-thinking, but this will give a chance for some of the
folks with electrical religion to let off some steam.

I have 3 machines that all need short (10 ft) extension cords:
* 1.5 HP dust collector
* 1 HP band saw
* 1 HP jointer
All run on 110 volts.

I've read everything from "don't ever use extension cords with woodworking
machines" to "14 gauge, 50 ft cord is fine."

The dust collector says that its max draw is 18 amps. I can't find any
extension cord, no matter what gauge, that says it is rated for more than
15
amps. That seems odd to me since an extension cord doesn't seem
fundamentally different than Romex to me.

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

I was going to get 10 gauge for all of them, but the 10 is twice as much
as
the 12 and I'm not convinced I need the extra weight.

Any thoughts?

Mark



My thoughts are to remove the factory cords and add a 10-15 foot power cord.
A little more work, but no fussing with extension cords either. Buy 12 guage
extension cords, cut off the female plug and rewire to your machine.
12 guage cords are fine as long as the run is relatively short. 10 guage is
overkill for 10-15 feet.
Greg

10 gauge is good to about 25 amps sometimes 30 depending on the wire
insulation, the 12 gauge will be good to about 20 amps. you never want to
push 14 gauge over maybe 12 amps. try to keep the wire at least 20 percent
heavier than you need if possible. Extension cords use strand wire because
it is more flexible. but it does not carry current as heavy as solid wire in
romex.



"Mark Wells" wrote in message
ink.net...
So I know I'm over-thinking, but this will give a chance for some of the
folks with electrical religion to let off some steam.

I have 3 machines that all need short (10 ft) extension cords:
* 1.5 HP dust collector
* 1 HP band saw
* 1 HP jointer
All run on 110 volts.

I've read everything from "don't ever use extension cords with woodworking
machines" to "14 gauge, 50 ft cord is fine."

The dust collector says that its max draw is 18 amps. I can't find any
extension cord, no matter what gauge, that says it is rated for more than
15 amps. That seems odd to me since an extension cord doesn't seem
fundamentally different than Romex to me.

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

I was going to get 10 gauge for all of them, but the 10 is twice as much
as the 12 and I'm not convinced I need the extra weight.

Any thoughts?

Mark

Mark Wells wrote:
So I know I'm over-thinking, but this will give a chance for some of the
folks with electrical religion to let off some steam.

I have 3 machines that all need short (10 ft) extension cords:
* 1.5 HP dust collector
* 1 HP band saw
* 1 HP jointer
All run on 110 volts.

I've read everything from "don't ever use extension cords with woodworking
machines" to "14 gauge, 50 ft cord is fine."

The dust collector says that its max draw is 18 amps. I can't find any
extension cord, no matter what gauge, that says it is rated for more than 15
amps. That seems odd to me since an extension cord doesn't seem
fundamentally different than Romex to me.

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

I was going to get 10 gauge for all of them, but the 10 is twice as much as
the 12 and I'm not convinced I need the extra weight.

Any thoughts?

Mark


10 is overkill for that short of run. Get some 12g so or soj and some
woodhead plugs and make your own. If you don't move your tools or put
them in the same general spot then wire right to the motor. You would
only need one plug per cord.

Anyone advising against extension cords must live REALLY close to a power
plant, cause all wiring is essentially an extension cord

The short answer: You can add 10 feet of 12 gauge on all three machines, no
problem, but I agree with Greg that it is cleaner just to put longer cords
directly to the electrical connections in the machine. No extra plugs to
get dirty, trip over, and pay for.

The longer answer: If you really are curious, what you care about is a)
voltage drop, and b) internal heating.

Internal heating is usually not an issue unless the cable is wound into a
tight bundle or run in an enclosed space (like conduit). For stretched out
cords, the heat generation is distributed over the length of the cord. You
could (in theory, at least) run 15A of current thru miles of 14ga wire, and
it would never overheat -- but the voltage drop would limit you way before
that.

Voltage drop: this is where length is important. Lower gauges are bigger
wires, so their resistance is lower; for the same current, they have less
voltage drop per length. 12 is about 1.7 ohms per 1000' (suprisingly
little) while 14 is 2.6 ohms per 1000'. So a run of 14 will drop 50% more
voltage than a run of 12. Ratings are pretty conservative: 100' of 14gauge
at 15A will drop a reasonable 8V (4 on the hot, 4 on the neutral). 1000'
would lose 80V -- which clearly would not work in a 110V system.

This is why power transmission lines are high voltage (lowering the current
for the same power), At low voltage, the losses would be way to large to
tolerate.

As far as prepackaged extension cords: One reason the cords may be rated is
15A is not the cable but the connectors (the plug itself). Connectors carry
a rating, just like cable does, or outlets, etc. Usually, the rating has to
do with the internal construction and regulatory testing. Often an plug
carrying too much current will heat up long before the cord it is attached
to. You will notice it when you grab the plug to unplug it -- it is warmer
than expected. Vacuum cleaners are notorious for this, as the plugs have a
tendancy to get uplugged with a quick yank on the cord (tsk, tsk). Time to
fix the plug or get a new one.

FWIW,

Matthew


"Mark Wells" wrote in message
ink.net...
So I know I'm over-thinking, but this will give a chance for some of the
folks with electrical religion to let off some steam.

I have 3 machines that all need short (10 ft) extension cords:
* 1.5 HP dust collector
* 1 HP band saw
* 1 HP jointer
All run on 110 volts.

I've read everything from "don't ever use extension cords with woodworking
machines" to "14 gauge, 50 ft cord is fine."

The dust collector says that its max draw is 18 amps. I can't find any
extension cord, no matter what gauge, that says it is rated for more than
15 amps. That seems odd to me since an extension cord doesn't seem
fundamentally different than Romex to me.

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

I was going to get 10 gauge for all of them, but the 10 is twice as much
as the 12 and I'm not convinced I need the extra weight.

Any thoughts?

Mark

"Mark Wells" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was going to get 10 gauge for all of them, but the 10 is twice as much
as
the 12 and I'm not convinced I need the extra weight.

12 gauge all the way. I agree with Greg - replace the stock cord with a
longer one. Either way, I think you will be happier making your own cords,
instead of buying what's available in the hardware stores. You can buy
heavy duty rubber covered SO cord at Lowe's or Home Depot and buy the
connectors to fit also. SO cord is rugged and much more flexible than the
things you get in the store.

Bob

Unless your DC is pretty close to the circuit box, you are already seeing
some voltage drop on 18a. Adding another 10' is not a great idea. I would
recommend using a 10 gauge extension cord, or (even better) wiring the DC
for 240v.

A voltage drop calculator is at:
http://www.electrician.com/vd_calculator.html
You don't want to go over 3%. Length is house wiring, extension cord, and
DC cord.

And finally, I sure hope you are not using more than one tool on a 20a
circuit, and that there is nothing else on the DC circuit, like lights.

In article , "Greg O"
wrote:

I prefer around a one foot power cord and a ten foot extension. When I
go to move the machine it is easy to disconnect and not have to trip
over the trailing cord. I use the heavy rubber cord protectors on the
floor where I walk over the extension cord.

Dick


My thoughts are to remove the factory cords and add a 10-15 foot power
cord.
A little more work, but no fussing with extension cords either. Buy 12
guage
extension cords, cut off the female plug and rewire to your machine.
12 guage cords are fine as long as the run is relatively short. 10 guage
is
overkill for 10-15 feet.
Greg

Mark Wells asks:
I've read everything from "don't ever use extension cords with woodworking
machines" to "14 gauge, 50 ft cord is fine."

The dust collector says that its max draw is 18 amps. I can't find any
extension cord, no matter what gauge, that says it is rated for more than 15
amps. That seems odd to me since an extension cord doesn't seem
fundamentally different than Romex to me.

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

I was going to get 10 gauge for all of them, but the 10 is twice as much as
the 12 and I'm not convinced I need the extra weight.

I really, really love the "don't use extension cords" types. The other choices
are direct wiring, or replacing machine cords with longer ones.

You're sizes are fine. AFAIK, ampacity of 12 gauge wire is sufficient for 20
amps, no matter which kind of cord you use, up to about 50'. It's in longer
lengths that voltage drops become a problem. Going with the #10 for the dust
collector is wise, because it allows for start-up surge.


Charlie Self
"Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power." Eric Hoffer

Richard Cline writes:


I prefer around a one foot power cord and a ten foot extension. When I
go to move the machine it is easy to disconnect and not have to trip
over the trailing cord. I use the heavy rubber cord protectors on the
floor where I walk over the extension cord.

Novel approach. About like what's been done to small kitchen appliances. But I
use the cord as an indication of the machine's being unplugged when I'm
changing blades, cutters, belts, etc. I drape the cord over the table so the
plug is visible. If I can't see the plug, I won't work on the machine until I
can see it.

Charlie Self
"Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power." Eric Hoffer

The nice thing about having the short cord on the tool then is you don't end
up walking back and forth to the wall plug all the time. Make it just long
enough to loop it somewhere you can see it, and away you go!

Clint

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Richard Cline writes:


I prefer around a one foot power cord and a ten foot extension. When I
go to move the machine it is easy to disconnect and not have to trip
over the trailing cord. I use the heavy rubber cord protectors on the
floor where I walk over the extension cord.

Novel approach. About like what's been done to small kitchen appliances.
But I
use the cord as an indication of the machine's being unplugged when I'm
changing blades, cutters, belts, etc. I drape the cord over the table so
the
plug is visible. If I can't see the plug, I won't work on the machine
until I
can see it.

Charlie Self
"Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power." Eric Hoffer

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:38:21 GMT, "Mark Wells"
calmly ranted:

So I know I'm over-thinking, but this will give a chance for some of the
folks with electrical religion to let off some steam.

Amen, Brother!


I have 3 machines that all need short (10 ft) extension cords:
* 1.5 HP dust collector
* 1 HP band saw
* 1 HP jointer
All run on 110 volts.

I'd run more wire, like 20', for each tool in case you want to
swap them around at a later date. You could easily run 12ga for
your short runs but if they'll get run over at all, 10ga would
be the call I'd make. I have all 5' rubber-wheeled casters in the
shop, so they're easy on cords when that happens. the cast iron
wheeled tablesaur is the exception, but it has the armored, 3/4"
thick 10ga cabling on it.


Here is the cable rating for extension cords.
------------------------------------
| AMP RATING | LENGTH 25' 50' 100' |
|------------------------------------|
| 0-6 amps | gauge 16 16 16 |
| 7-10 | 18 16 14 |
| 11-12 | 16 16 14 |
| 13-16 | 14 14 12 |
| 17-20 | 12 12 10 |
| 21-30 | 10 10 NO |
------------------------------------
(if you're not running a fixed width font, you'll get dizzy on that)
Figures courtesy of the Grizzly G1012 instruction manual.


I've read everything from "don't ever use extension cords with woodworking
machines" to "14 gauge, 50 ft cord is fine."

The dust collector says that its max draw is 18 amps. I can't find any
extension cord, no matter what gauge, that says it is rated for more than 15
amps. That seems odd to me since an extension cord doesn't seem
fundamentally different than Romex to me.

It's stranded-wire vs. the solid-wired Romex, and it has an entirely
different jacket. Other than being -totally- different animals,
they're quite alike, just as you say.


Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

I was going to get 10 gauge for all of them, but the 10 is twice as much as
the 12 and I'm not convinced I need the extra weight.

When in doubt, go heavy. What's an extra 30 cents a foot, anyway?
I bought 50' of 12ga for my 220v bandsaw and dust collector, 25'
apiece. The 30' cable on the table saw is 10ga and is nearly double
the thickness of the new stuff. That cable is thick and protects the
wiring inside better, so it's worth the few extra bucks. I think
it was 25 or 30 cents a foot more, but if I needed a 100' extension
cord for a power tool, I'd go with the thicker stuff despite its cost
and weight. It could mean the difference between smoking the tool
or running it nicely. The difference in price there would be more
than enough to warrant the heavier gauge.


--
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven.
Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Sin-free Website Design

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:38:21 GMT, "Mark Wells"
calmly ranted:

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

Let me restate that: Don't put -extension- cords on those
machines, RECABLE them, wiring from the switch to the wall
with new, high-quality cable and a grounded male plug on
the end.


--
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven.
Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Sin-free Website Design

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:38:21 GMT, "Mark Wells"
calmly ranted:

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

Let me restate that: Don't put -extension- cords on those
machines, RECABLE them, wiring from the switch to the wall
with new, high-quality cable and a grounded male plug on
the end.


I have to disagree Larry. For a lot of us, our tools have to move around,
in and out of parking places. Extension cords are much more versatile for
that than hardwired cords. Properly made extension cords are every bit as
good as a hardwired configuration and for us that have to deal with moving
and storing, they're better.
--

-Mike-

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:38:21 GMT, "Mark Wells"
calmly ranted:

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

Let me restate that: Don't put -extension- cords on those
machines, RECABLE them, wiring from the switch to the wall
with new, high-quality cable and a grounded male plug on
the end.


I have to disagree Larry. For a lot of us, our tools have to move around,
in and out of parking places. Extension cords are much more versatile for
that than hardwired cords. Properly made extension cords are every bit as
good as a hardwired configuration and for us that have to deal with moving
and storing, they're better.
--

-Mike-

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:55:49 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
calmly ranted:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:38:21 GMT, "Mark Wells"
calmly ranted:

Here's what I was thinking
* dust collector - 10 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* band saw - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord
* jointer - 12 gauge, 10 foot extension cord

Let me restate that: Don't put -extension- cords on those
machines, RECABLE them, wiring from the switch to the wall
with new, high-quality cable and a grounded male plug on
the end.

I have to disagree Larry. For a lot of us, our tools have to move around,
in and out of parking places. Extension cords are much more versatile for
that than hardwired cords.

Properly made extension cords are every bit as
good as a hardwired configuration and for us that have to deal with moving
and storing, they're better.

Because about 90% of extension cords out there are insufficient
for use with a major power tool, you're asking for trouble telling
people to use them. People tend to save money and an extension cord
is the WRONG place to save it. Most are 18ga, some as heavy as 16,
but VERY few are heavy guage wire. Those that do use it are usually
found only in contractor sales areas or high-end shops and at 5 times
the price of a homeowner cord. Most folks won't buy them.

But that's your call, Mike. My general advice is "DON'T USE ONE!"
unless I'm talking to someone who knows what voltage drops can mean
and they have a contractor-grade cord. Fried motors are no fun and
I won't be a party to someone frying theirs, thanks.

--
Save the Endangered ROAD NARROWS! -|- www.diversify.com
Ban SUVs today! -|- Full Service Websites

Thanks for everybody's feedback. I went to the BORG and checked out the
electrical supplies. Comparing apples-to-apples the best I could, making my
own 12 gauge extension cords from supplies at the BORG ($0.89/ft + $4/end)
versus buying pre-made from McMaster-Carr ($15 for thermopastic case with
lighted end) is roughly the same, so I'm just going to order pre-made ones.
The BORG does sell 25 foot, 12 gauge extension cords, but I want to stick
with 10 footers.

I also checked the machines themselves. The power cord to the two 1 HP
machines (Jet) is only 16 gauge wire, so I can definitely see the reasoning
behind replacing the entire cord. I'm still trying to figure out the best
way to get my shop arranged, so I think extension cords are a better option
at this point. However, I may do the pig tails. One reason I like that
idea is that it keeps the male plug off the ground where it can get stepped
on.

On the dust collector, I don't think it actually draws 18 amps. The Penn
State site says "Reflects capacity of motor - running amperage will be
significantly less." A friend of mine started a company that, among other
things, makes an inline tool to monitor volts, amps, power quality, etc.
(http://www.wxdux.com/eggdetails.shtml). I keep meaning to get him to come
over and actually see what each tool draws. If I ever get around to that,
I'll post the results.

Mark

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques responds:
in and out of parking places. Extension cords are much more versatile
for
that than hardwired cords.

Properly made extension cords are every bit as
good as a hardwired configuration and for us that have to deal with
moving
and storing, they're better.

Because about 90% of extension cords out there are insufficient
for use with a major power tool, you're asking for trouble telling
people to use them. People tend to save money and an extension cord
is the WRONG place to save it. Most are 18ga, some as heavy as 16,
but VERY few are heavy guage wire. Those that do use it are usually
found only in contractor sales areas or high-end shops and at 5 times
the price of a homeowner cord. Most folks won't buy them.


If you read the early answers here, I think you'll find that the emphasis
was
on proper sizing for the tool. No one that I saw recommended the kind of
light
duty lamp cord extensions you seem to be afraid of.

Top quality extension cords are available in HD and Lowe's and in most
hardware
stores, not just contractors' stores. The prices are about five times what
a
lamp extension costs, but so what? We're not writing of lamps here, nor do
I
feel someone who knows a tool is going to be stupid enough to add an 18
gauge
extension to a 120 volt 18 ampere table or other saw.

Give most woodworkers a bit of credit for a gram or two of common sense
when it
comes to electrical cords. Sure, there are idiots out there, in plenty,
but you
can't limit everyone to the slowest person in the overall category. We're
no
longer in school.

Charlie Self
"It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable."
Eric
Hoffer

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

Because about 90% of extension cords out there are insufficient
for use with a major power tool, you're asking for trouble telling
people to use them. People tend to save money and an extension cord
is the WRONG place to save it. Most are 18ga, some as heavy as 16,
but VERY few are heavy guage wire. Those that do use it are usually
found only in contractor sales areas or high-end shops and at 5 times
the price of a homeowner cord. Most folks won't buy them.

But that's your call, Mike. My general advice is "DON'T USE ONE!"
unless I'm talking to someone who knows what voltage drops can mean
and they have a contractor-grade cord. Fried motors are no fun and
I won't be a party to someone frying theirs, thanks.


5 years ago I would have come close to agreeing with you Larry - except that
I'd have said "don't buy one, build one" in order to get a good heavy cord.
But today, that's completely different. 10 and 12 gauge cords are commonly
available from Wal Mart, Home Depot and every place that sells cords, and
they're priced right down with what people always paid for junk 18 gauge
cords. Check out the prices of 10 and 12 gauge cords next time you're out
and about. They aren't even double the cheap things, let alone 5 times.
Voltage drop across a 10 or 20 foot cord is something you'd have to look at
as well. I don't know off the top of my head what it is, but that's a very
short distance and I'm not so sure there's such a big issue at hand. On
that point, I could be wrong, but it just does not seem there should be.

I prefer to give advice that is appropriate. I'd suggest a fellow use a 10
or a 12 gauge cord. That, IMHO is a lot better advice than "don't do it".
It can be better advice than to hardwire, especially in situations like I
suggested in my reply. Which - by the way, you didn't address.
--

-Mike-

"Mark Wells" wrote in message
ink.net...

I also checked the machines themselves. The power cord to the two 1 HP
machines (Jet) is only 16 gauge wire, so I can definitely see the
reasoning
behind replacing the entire cord.

Don't be in a rush to replace the machine wiring if that's what you're
saying here. The machine wire is not a feeder line.
--

-Mike-

On 20 Dec 2004 02:53:44 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
calmly ranted:

Give most woodworkers a bit of credit for a gram or two of common sense when it
comes to electrical cords. Sure, there are idiots out there, in plenty, but you
can't limit everyone to the slowest person in the overall category.

You're apparently more charitable than I am after reading all the
electrical posts over the years here on the Wreck, Charlie.


We're no longer in school.

Given the state of our school grads, I don't know whether to grin or
cry about that one.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent in my $5, so * http://www.diversify.com/stees.html
why haven't I been 'saved'? * Graphic Design - Humorous T-shirts

Larry Jaques responds:


We're no longer in school.

Given the state of our school grads, I don't know whether to grin or
cry about that one.

A single whimper is all you're allowed. It sure isn't something to laugh about.

Charlie Self
"It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric
Hoffer

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:03:13 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
calmly ranted:

5 years ago I would have come close to agreeing with you Larry - except that
I'd have said "don't buy one, build one" in order to get a good heavy cord.
But today, that's completely different. 10 and 12 gauge cords are commonly
available from Wal Mart, Home Depot and every place that sells cords, and
they're priced right down with what people always paid for junk 18 gauge
cords. Check out the prices of 10 and 12 gauge cords next time you're out
and about. They aren't even double the cheap things, let alone 5 times.

The last one I specifically remember being advertised was a 25'
contractor's cord for $30 in Ace Hardware in the last year or
so. Then again, I haven't really looked into it lately, so perhaps
you're right. I'll make it a point to look the next time I'm in
a Borg or hardware store.


Voltage drop across a 10 or 20 foot cord is something you'd have to look at
as well. I don't know off the top of my head what it is, but that's a very
short distance and I'm not so sure there's such a big issue at hand. On
that point, I could be wrong, but it just does not seem there should be.

Yes, the short run is definitely an advantage.


I prefer to give advice that is appropriate. I'd suggest a fellow use a 10
or a 12 gauge cord. That, IMHO is a lot better advice than "don't do it".
It can be better advice than to hardwire, especially in situations like I
suggested in my reply. Which - by the way, you didn't address.

Perhaps you underestimate human nature. Telling someone to get a
specific cord, then watching them eye prices and grab the cheaper
longer one, precisely the wrong thing to do and against your advice,
is what too often happens. I give advice for worst-case scenario
and consider it appropriate. Obviously, your and Charlie's methods
differ. C'est la vie.

P.S: GWB would have said "misunderestimate" there.

--------------------------------------------------------
Murphy was an Optimist
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On 20 Dec 2004 17:03:19 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
calmly ranted:

Larry Jaques responds:

We're no longer in school.

Given the state of our school grads, I don't know whether to grin or
cry about that one.

A single whimper is all you're allowed. It sure isn't something to laugh about.

Muted or reverberating, please?


--------------------------------------------------------
Murphy was an Optimist
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

Most of the problems with extension cords is in the plugs, not the cord.
25' of #14 under full load for a piece of equipment with a 5-15 plug (12a)
drops about 1.8v. Bump that up to #12 and you drop 1.18v

I wondered about that. Is there a reason that 20 amp outlets and plugs
aren't more common?

Mark

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Most of the problems with extension cords is in the plugs, not the cord.
25' of #14 under full load for a piece of equipment with a 5-15 plug (12a)
drops about 1.8v. Bump that up to #12 and you drop 1.18v

Mark Wells asks:

I wondered about that. Is there a reason that 20 amp outlets and plugs
aren't more common?

Mark

"Greg" wrote in message
...
Most of the problems with extension cords is in the plugs, not the cord.
25' of #14 under full load for a piece of equipment with a 5-15 plug (12a)
drops about 1.8v. Bump that up to #12 and you drop 1.18v

Cable costs more, is harder (slightly, but harder) to wire to receptacles and
switches.

Charlie Self
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder
respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell

I wondered about that. Is there a reason that 20 amp outlets and plugs
aren't more common?

There is very little that actually requires the NEMA 5-20 and some things that
do, cheat. The code is very permissive about allowing 5-15s on 20a circuits but
just be sure to buy the spec grade or better, not the 43 cent one.