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#1
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Band Sawing in the UK (LAWS)
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#2
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SB asks:
I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a good choice for saws. The main problem at the moment is.. My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can imagine it) Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic. Charlie Self "It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken |
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Lobby Dosser responds:
Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic. It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a chainsaw now in the UK. Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given, though, that anything with a blade with teeth and a motor driving it can cause considerable damage). Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken |
#5
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otforme (Charlie Self) writes:
[...] Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given, Chainsaws alow for some extra dangerous usages. This summer i saw two construction workors installing plastic water tubing and cutting the tubes with a chainsaw. One worker kneeled on he street holding the pipe (~10" diameter) with two hands in front of him, the other kneeled on the street facing him and cutting the tube between the first workers hands with a chainsaw... Neither wore any protective clothing, face shield or ear protection. -- Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869 Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23 |
#6
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It sounds kind of odd to me too. With the bandsaw or scrollsaw I've always
gone with the..... if you stop pushing it,it stops cutting your finger off.... kind of thing. You would have to be trying to cut your finger off with one of them . With that said ,anyone remember the link someone posted here a few years ago with pictures of a guy who committed suicide on a bandsaw? Jim "Charlie Self" wrote in message ... SB asks: I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a good choice for saws. The main problem at the moment is.. My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can imagine it) Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, |
#7
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"SB" wrote in message ... Hi, I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a good choice for saws. The main problem at the moment is.. My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can imagine it) Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. SB This page "suggests" that it's "sorta" true...cf para 4... http://www.geoffswoodwork.co.uk/page%20six.html |
#8
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Risk management?
Probably saves on healthcare, but it sound a bit like a rapala hitting the water. "SB" wrote in message ... Hi, I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a good choice for saws. The main problem at the moment is.. My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can imagine it) Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. SB |
#9
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:32:04 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote: I think you need special dispensation or something to use a chainsaw now in the UK. You need a licence to stand _near_to_ someone else using a chainsaw. This rule is generally observed in woodlands - it's the insurer's rule, rather than a legal requirement, The HSE rules only extend to operators, but it's now awkward for your liability cover if you have anyone who's not a ticket holder anywhere on a site where you're sawing. On public "art events" though, where there's some chainsaw carving going on, even basic safety rules go out of the window. Lots of real cowboy stuff there, and one day there'll be an accident and the tabloid papers will go berserk for a "Ban These Evil Machines" campaign. There are a series of licences for chainsaw operators, light felling, heavy felling, and working at height with chainsaws. You're not even allowed to buy a top-handle chainsaw without the right licence. As to the actual injury rates, forestry in the UK has a good safety record. If you hear of an accident, chances are that it's a farmer with no training, no safety kit, and using an ancient unbraked saw that was being hard to start. -- Smert' spamionam |
#10
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:48:48 -0000, "SB"
wrote: My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. This isn't quite accurate on the details and the attribution, but it's not all that far from the truth. (Legally speaking) People under 18 are "young people". Under 16 are "children". Most rules like this kick in at 16, not 18. There is no licence for bandsaw use. The employer may have some responsibility for ensuring that people are "competent" to use the machine, but this isn't tied to a formal licence. As is general with most (but not all) UK worshop safety legislation, it's the responsibility of the workshop operator to judge what is "competent". There's no test they have to apply beforehand, but if there is an accident, then they have to justify their decisions in court. Mind you, as we've seen with railway maintenance operators and the student at Shoreham dock, a large company can get away with killing workers quite carelessly, and there's no effective legal redress. In contrast, the UK has quite good laws on machine safety and the rules applied to the machine itself (this is easier to inspect than a workforce). There's a legal requirement for certain sorts of guard, and for the machines to not carry on spinning for a long time afterwards. There are plenty of bandsaws in education, being used by people under 16. If there weren't, Startrite wouldn't have such a good business in selling vastly over-priced bandsaws with huge yellow guards on them otherwise. So really it's the school's rules in effect here. You _could_ use the bandsaw, but only if the workshop operator feels that they can offer a suitable level of supervision for the people involved. You might have a large class there, and I'm sure you have a couple of idiots in it. Your CDT teacher just can't say "Use the bandsaw" or there _will_ be accidents. If you look like you're not an idiot, and if the class isn't busy, then most CDT teachers become far more flexible about what you can do in the workshop. When I was at school, a few of us spent all our lunch hours in the workshop and we used _everything_. It was only a dozen or so of us though. some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. A bandsaw is generally a pretty safe machine. It has a blade that will injure fingers badly and allow you to remove them by pulling your hand away, but even then you're looking at surgery rather than losing the finger altogether. Actual amputations with bandsaws are pretty rare. It's also easy with a bandsaw to see where the nasty bit it - this is a small area and you can avoid it. In contrast, jointers and planers have a reputation for not just taking the finger, but helping themselves to the whole hand. Circular saws will amputate a finger quicker than you can pull it away and they also have the lovely risk of "kickback", where they can throw a piece of timber across the workshop and hit someone else entirely with it. And spindle moulders are worse. I have kids (8 and upwards) in my workshop, and I let them use the machines whilst supervised. The drill press or bandsaw are OK. The table saw isn't, just because it's big and you need to have long arms to be able to use it safely. The jointer is on the "dangerous" list, but the planer is safe because you work that from the other end of the board. The welding gear is safe to use too, so long as I've set it up first. -- Smert' spamionam |
#11
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Juergen Hannappel writes:
Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given, Chainsaws alow for some extra dangerous usages. This summer i saw two construction workors installing plastic water tubing and cutting the tubes with a chainsaw. One worker kneeled on he street holding the pipe (~10" diameter) with two hands in front of him, the other kneeled on the street facing him and cutting the tube between the first workers hands with a chainsaw... Neither wore any protective clothing, face shield or ear protection. Jeez, man. That makes my skin crawl to think of it. I've written books on chainsaws, dropped a lot of trees, managed to nick a kneecap with one, and have never even considered doing anything close to that idiotic. When I was doing a lot of cutting, though, ear protection and protective clothing were hard to locate. Thirty years changes a bunch of things. Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken |
#12
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Juergen Hannappel wrote:
otforme (Charlie Self) writes: [...] Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given, Chainsaws alow for some extra dangerous usages. This summer i saw two construction workors installing plastic water tubing and cutting the tubes with a chainsaw. One worker kneeled on he street holding the pipe (~10" diameter) with two hands in front of him, the other kneeled on the street facing him and cutting the tube between the first workers hands with a chainsaw... Neither wore any protective clothing, face shield or ear protection. That is just Darwin at work. When you legislate for the lowest common denominator, the rest of the population gets excessive inconvience and the gene pool suffers. Pretty soon everyone is the lowest common denominator. ) |
#13
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#14
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"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
That is just Darwin at work. When you legislate for the lowest common denominator, the rest of the population gets excessive inconvience and the gene pool suffers. Pretty soon everyone is the lowest common denominator. ) IOW, the more you protect someone from their own folly, the more fools you have. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 11/06/04 |
#15
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On 14 Nov 2004 08:00:13 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote: SB asks: I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a good choice for saws. The main problem at the moment is.. My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can imagine it) Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic. Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can accomodate dado blades. |
#16
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:54:55 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote: On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:32:04 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: I think you need special dispensation or something to use a chainsaw now in the UK. You need a licence to stand _near_to_ someone else using a chainsaw. .... snip There are a series of licences for chainsaw operators, light felling, heavy felling, and working at height with chainsaws. You're not even allowed to buy a top-handle chainsaw without the right licence. As to the actual injury rates, forestry in the UK has a good safety record. If you hear of an accident, chances are that it's a farmer with no training, no safety kit, and using an ancient unbraked saw that was being hard to start. and probably because he couldn't buy a new chainsaw since buying a new one requires a license which he most likely doesn't have, but he does have an ancient chainsaw with no safety features. Law of unintended consequences sucks, doesn't it? ;-) |
#17
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"SB" wrote in message ... Hi, I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a good choice for saws. The main problem at the moment is.. My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can imagine it) Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. SB My dad is a part time wood turning tutor at an Adult Education college. He once showed me a machinery guidance manual he was issued with while on a safety course. It was mainly written for schools, although sadly most of the rules also apply for adults attending his courses. As far as I recall it states that responsible students are allowed to use table top bandsaws like a 3 wheel burgess (subject to proper instruction / supervision of course), but should not use floor standing models. (Personally, I think tabletop bandsaws are probably less safe than a well designed full sized machine). I don't know if that is a hard and fast rule, thankfully the advisor agreed that his adults could use a proper bandsaw once they'd been shown its correct use. I think there was also something about qualified adult students being allowed to use a tablesaw. If I remember correctly table mounted routers, spindle moulders and radial arm saws were not permitted. They also objected to the use of a roughing gouge to remove the corners from square stock on the lathe, favouring bandsawing them off as safer. Not something we would agree with. |
#18
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote: IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now. No, nor to use one on your own land. Only if you're looking to buy a top-handle machine (which is a whole pile more dangerous), or you're looking to do "work" with one. -- Smert' spamionam |
#19
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:17:10 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote: and probably because he couldn't buy a new chainsaw since buying a new one requires a license Great justification - shame it's entirely untrue. -- Smert' spamionam |
#20
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:13:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote: Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can accomodate dado blades. There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with long arbors to take dado sets. Dado blades (Freud) are available from my nearest high street toolshop (for lack of space they don't sell any machines big enough to use them). -- Smert' spamionam |
#21
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Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now. No, nor to use one on your own land. Only if you're looking to buy a top-handle machine (which is a whole pile more dangerous), or you're looking to do "work" with one. I think all of our chainsaws in the US are top-handle. Don't remember seeing anything else. I see the top-handle as offering better control. |
#22
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:30:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote: I see the top-handle as offering better control. Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw. All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A "top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and control any kickback. They're basically dangerous and uncontrollable. They're only justifiable if you're working up a tree and need one hand for yourself - more an arborist's tool than a lumberman's. If you get a kickback, the saw _will_ jump up, because you simply can't control it in one hand. Your only hope of vaguely safe working is to reliably always know that when it jumps, you aren't where it's going to be heading. This requires skill and practice. -- Smert' spamionam |
#23
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"Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:30:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: I see the top-handle as offering better control. Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw. All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A "top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and control any kickback. Are you quite sure about that Andy? I looked at one on a web site and it looked like a two handed saw, just that the right hand grabs a handle that is on the top rear portion of the saw instead of the very rear of the saw. All the same, it looks to be very much a two handed saw. It certainly does not look as easy to control as a standard configuration. -- -Mike- |
#24
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:58:57 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote: On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:17:10 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote: and probably because he couldn't buy a new chainsaw since buying a new one requires a license Great justification - shame it's entirely untrue. Based that upon your earlier posting indicating a license was needed to buy a top-handled chain saw. After your subsequent posting explaining that the top-handled chain saw is not the same as what we here in the US would think it to be, I stand corrected. |
#25
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:00:31 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote: On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:13:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote: Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can accomodate dado blades. There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with long arbors to take dado sets. Dado blades (Freud) are available from my nearest high street toolshop (for lack of space they don't sell any machines big enough to use them). My comment is based upon discussions in the newsgroup, for example, http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=db211059.0210240433.57533 85b%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DUK%2Bdado%2Bblade%2Barbor%2Bban%26hl% 3Den%26lr%3D%26selm%3Ddb211059.0210240433.5753385b %2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D2 |
#26
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#27
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well I did a quick google search and all the "top handle chainsaws" I found
seem to be one hand only - see http://www.shindaiwa.com/products/chain_saws/ch357.html and http://www.asktooltalk.com/home/gene...g/solo/633.htm for examples. "Mike Marlow" wrote in message link.net... "Andy Dingley" wrote in message ... On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:30:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: I see the top-handle as offering better control. Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw. All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A "top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and control any kickback. Are you quite sure about that Andy? I looked at one on a web site and it looked like a two handed saw, just that the right hand grabs a handle that is on the top rear portion of the saw instead of the very rear of the saw. All the same, it looks to be very much a two handed saw. It certainly does not look as easy to control as a standard configuration. -- -Mike- |
#28
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#29
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"SB" wrote in message ... I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a good choice for saws. Yeah - my thought was, if you're on a budget, I'd be tempted to buy a mini bandsaw before I bought one of those mini table saws you found. My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so What does he say about a table saw? Is that OK? |
#30
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Andy Dingley wrote:
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:30:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: I see the top-handle as offering better control. Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw. All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A "top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and control any kickback. They're basically dangerous and uncontrollable. They're only justifiable if you're working up a tree and need one hand for yourself - more an arborist's tool than a lumberman's. If you get a kickback, the saw _will_ jump up, because you simply can't control it in one hand. Your only hope of vaguely safe working is to reliably always know that when it jumps, you aren't where it's going to be heading. This requires skill and practice. Then I've Never seen them here. Your description may be the reason why I've never seen them here. Pros I know here use the standard models one handed while up a tree. |
#31
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote: (Charlie Self) wrote: Lobby Dosser responds: Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic. It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a chainsaw now in the UK. Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given, though, that anything with a blade with teeth and a motor driving it can cause considerable damage). I agree that the chainsaw has far more potential for damage than the bandsaw, but the UK tends to go overboard when it comes to stuff like this. IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now. They'll get my chainsaw when they pry it from my cold dead hands - no doubt just after I've cut off a leg. ) Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken or, they're cold and dead because you cut THEM off.. |
#32
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mac davis wrote:
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser wrote: (Charlie Self) wrote: Lobby Dosser responds: Please could you tell me if this is true or not.. I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic. It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a chainsaw now in the UK. Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given, though, that anything with a blade with teeth and a motor driving it can cause considerable damage). I agree that the chainsaw has far more potential for damage than the bandsaw, but the UK tends to go overboard when it comes to stuff like this. IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now. They'll get my chainsaw when they pry it from my cold dead hands - no doubt just after I've cut off a leg. ) Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken or, they're cold and dead because you cut THEM off.. Both? I can't think of a way to do that, but I suppose someone's done it. Seems to be no end to the bizarre 'accidents' possible with tools. |
#33
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JOAT writes:
I knew a guy (friend of my dad) who almost did himself in with a circular saw. He was cutting something, and pinned the guard back. Fairly common, and stupid, procedure. A few years ago, a guy was trimming the bottom line of some vertical siding boards for me, using an old gear driven Skil saw. He pinned his guard back and went about the job. I asked him not to, but he told me he did it "all the time." I went around the building, because it made me nervous to watch. He was fine, and probably still is, but the procedure saves about two seconds a day in such work, and is dangerous as all get out. Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken |
#34
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 03:16:58 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: Are you quite sure about that Andy? No, because there will always be some other design out there that I've not seen. If there's room on the top of the case, then there could well be space for another handle, or just more handroom in a longer handle. That would probably be even less safe - it encourages you to use it as a two-handled saw, but really you're still only getting a single grip on it. It's not the number of hands you're using, it's the distance you can get between them. -- Smert' spamionam |
#35
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:37:17 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote: There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with long arbors to take dado sets. My comment is based upon discussions in the newsgroup, Well in that case DCs also suffer regular static explosions. There is _no_ UK law against dado sets. There is a law (part of PUWER 98) that requires a rapid stop. As this is awkward to achieve with a heavy dado set (you'd need to fit electric braking, which is expensive), the cheapest fix for new retail machines is to shorten the arbor. If you have a long arbor you can still use it. If you have a long arbor you can still sell it. If you want to use a machine in a commercial workshop - any age of machine - it now needs to comply to this spin-down regulation, even if that requires retrofitting a brake. OTOH, we did get 5 years warning of this ruling coming into effect. -- Smert' spamionam |
#36
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That Solo even _looks_ dangerous. Appears that these actually have two
hand-holds at right angles, however. I'm sure most people use both simultaneously. Guy who sold me my first saw years ago used to show the left hand - less index finger - and say "when you're holding both handles, it can't happen." Oh yes, never drop-start your chainsaw with the throttle lock engaged. "Doug Brown" wrote in message ... well I did a quick google search and all the "top handle chainsaws" I found seem to be one hand only - see http://www.shindaiwa.com/products/chain_saws/ch357.html and http://www.asktooltalk.com/home/gene...g/solo/633.htm for examples. |
#37
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"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message ... On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:00:31 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote: On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:13:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote: Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can accomodate dado blades. There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with long arbors to take dado sets. Dado blades (Freud) are available from my nearest high street toolshop (for lack of space they don't sell any machines big enough to use them). My comment is based upon discussions in the newsgroup, for example, http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ps%3Fq%3DUK%2B dado%2Bblade%2Barbor%2Bban%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sel m%3Ddb211059.0210240433.5753385b%2540posting.googl e.com%26rnum%3D2 I'm not aware of any laws in the UK that restrict saw arbor length. There's certainly no ban on the sale of dado saws. I wouldn't say they were widely available, however Machine Mart now stocks them, including in the EU standard 30mm bore. http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=060620496 Dado blades don't seem to be popular in industry - at least I've never seen a set in a liquidation auction. There could be a problem with recent safety rules requiring the blade to come to a halt in under 30 seconds. New saws are electrically braked so I guess there might be a risk of the dado blade's inertia loosening the nut or just taking too long to spin down. (These rules aren't enforced for hobbyists and one man businesses) There is a uk Health and Safety sheet on table saws he- http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf |
#38
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"Mel" writes:
[...] I'm not aware of any laws in the UK that restrict saw arbor length. There's certainly no ban on the sale of dado saws. I wouldn't AFAIK wobble dados are forbidden. -- Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869 Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23 |
#39
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Andy Dingley responds:
There is _no_ UK law against dado sets. There is a law (part of PUWER 98) that requires a rapid stop. As this is awkward to achieve with a heavy dado set (you'd need to fit electric braking, which is expensive), the cheapest fix for new retail machines is to shorten the arbor. If you have a long arbor you can still use it. If you have a long arbor you can still sell it. If you want to use a machine in a commercial workshop - any age of machine - it now needs to comply to this spin-down regulation, even if that requires retrofitting a brake. OTOH, we did get 5 years warning of this ruling coming into effect. What's the spin down time. If it isn't instant stop, a la Saw Stop, it seems useless to me. A hand stuck in a dado blade is going to get chewed up about as much as possible in 30 seconds as compared to 60 seconds. Spin down time and the use of electric brakes on power tools have always seemed to me to more beneficial in stopping the blade quickly so the next operation can be started, not as a safety measure, though it might also serve as such on some circular saws (Skil type) and one or two miter saws, always assuming those don't have guards. Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken |
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Juergen Hannappel writes:
I'm not aware of any laws in the UK that restrict saw arbor length. There's certainly no ban on the sale of dado saws. I wouldn't AFAIK wobble dados are forbidden. Well, hell, that even makes sense, but has zip to do with safety. They're nasty tools, hard to adjust, leaving a V shaped groove bottom, and they sound awful. Now, ask me how I feel about wobble dado sets. Charlie Self "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken |
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