Hi,

I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a
good choice for saws.
The main problem at the moment is..

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so
that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can
imagine it)

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..

SB

SB asks:

I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a
good choice for saws.
The main problem at the moment is..

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so
that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can
imagine it)

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..


I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the
UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than
the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if the law exists, it's
idiotic.

Charlie Self
"It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of
common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever
ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

SB asks:

I got an email from saying that a bandsaw
may be a good choice for saws.
The main problem at the moment is..

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the
bandsaw because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly
think this was so that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples
fingers off. (You can imagine it)

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..


I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use
in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly
easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if
the law exists, it's idiotic.

It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a
chainsaw now in the UK.


Charlie Self
"It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in
favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes
me forever ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken

Lobby Dosser responds:

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..


I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use
in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly
easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if
the law exists, it's idiotic.

It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a
chainsaw now in the UK.


Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable
power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given,
though, that anything with a blade with teeth and a motor driving it can cause
considerable damage).

Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

otforme (Charlie Self) writes:


[...]

Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous portable
power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given,

Chainsaws alow for some extra dangerous usages. This summer i saw two
construction workors installing plastic water tubing and cutting the
tubes with a chainsaw. One worker kneeled on he street holding the
pipe (~10" diameter) with two hands in front of him, the other kneeled
on the street facing him and cutting the tube between the first
workers hands with a chainsaw... Neither wore any protective clothing,
face shield or ear protection.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

It sounds kind of odd to me too. With the bandsaw or scrollsaw I've always
gone with the..... if you stop pushing it,it stops cutting your finger
off.... kind of thing. You would have to be trying to cut your finger off
with one of them . With that said ,anyone remember the link someone posted
here a few years ago with pictures of a guy who committed suicide on a
bandsaw?
Jim
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
SB asks:

I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may
be a
good choice for saws.
The main problem at the moment is..

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was
so
that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can
imagine it)

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..


I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in
the
UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use
than
the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous,

"SB" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be
a
good choice for saws.
The main problem at the moment is..

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was
so
that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can
imagine it)

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..

SB



This page "suggests" that it's "sorta" true...cf para 4...

http://www.geoffswoodwork.co.uk/page%20six.html

Risk management?

Probably saves on healthcare, but it sound a bit like a rapala hitting the
water.

"SB" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be
a
good choice for saws.
The main problem at the moment is..

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was
so
that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can
imagine it)

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..

SB

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:32:04 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

I think you need special dispensation or something to use a
chainsaw now in the UK.

You need a licence to stand _near_to_ someone else using a chainsaw.

This rule is generally observed in woodlands - it's the insurer's
rule, rather than a legal requirement, The HSE rules only extend to
operators, but it's now awkward for your liability cover if you have
anyone who's not a ticket holder anywhere on a site where you're
sawing.

On public "art events" though, where there's some chainsaw carving
going on, even basic safety rules go out of the window. Lots of real
cowboy stuff there, and one day there'll be an accident and the
tabloid papers will go berserk for a "Ban These Evil Machines"
campaign.

There are a series of licences for chainsaw operators, light felling,
heavy felling, and working at height with chainsaws. You're not even
allowed to buy a top-handle chainsaw without the right licence.

As to the actual injury rates, forestry in the UK has a good safety
record. If you hear of an accident, chances are that it's a farmer
with no training, no safety kit, and using an ancient unbraked saw
that was being hard to start.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:48:48 -0000, "SB"
wrote:

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence.

This isn't quite accurate on the details and the attribution, but it's
not all that far from the truth.

(Legally speaking) People under 18 are "young people". Under 16 are
"children". Most rules like this kick in at 16, not 18.

There is no licence for bandsaw use. The employer may have some
responsibility for ensuring that people are "competent" to use the
machine, but this isn't tied to a formal licence. As is general with
most (but not all) UK worshop safety legislation, it's the
responsibility of the workshop operator to judge what is "competent".
There's no test they have to apply beforehand, but if there is an
accident, then they have to justify their decisions in court.

Mind you, as we've seen with railway maintenance operators and the
student at Shoreham dock, a large company can get away with killing
workers quite carelessly, and there's no effective legal redress.

In contrast, the UK has quite good laws on machine safety and the
rules applied to the machine itself (this is easier to inspect than a
workforce). There's a legal requirement for certain sorts of guard,
and for the machines to not carry on spinning for a long time
afterwards.

There are plenty of bandsaws in education, being used by people under
16. If there weren't, Startrite wouldn't have such a good business in
selling vastly over-priced bandsaws with huge yellow guards on them
otherwise.

So really it's the school's rules in effect here. You _could_ use the
bandsaw, but only if the workshop operator feels that they can offer a
suitable level of supervision for the people involved. You might have
a large class there, and I'm sure you have a couple of idiots in it.
Your CDT teacher just can't say "Use the bandsaw" or there _will_ be
accidents.

If you look like you're not an idiot, and if the class isn't busy,
then most CDT teachers become far more flexible about what you can do
in the workshop. When I was at school, a few of us spent all our lunch
hours in the workshop and we used _everything_. It was only a dozen or
so of us though.

some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off.

A bandsaw is generally a pretty safe machine. It has a blade that
will injure fingers badly and allow you to remove them by pulling your
hand away, but even then you're looking at surgery rather than losing
the finger altogether. Actual amputations with bandsaws are pretty
rare. It's also easy with a bandsaw to see where the nasty bit it -
this is a small area and you can avoid it.

In contrast, jointers and planers have a reputation for not just
taking the finger, but helping themselves to the whole hand. Circular
saws will amputate a finger quicker than you can pull it away and they
also have the lovely risk of "kickback", where they can throw a piece
of timber across the workshop and hit someone else entirely with it.
And spindle moulders are worse.

I have kids (8 and upwards) in my workshop, and I let them use the
machines whilst supervised. The drill press or bandsaw are OK. The
table saw isn't, just because it's big and you need to have long arms
to be able to use it safely. The jointer is on the "dangerous" list,
but the planer is safe because you work that from the other end of the
board. The welding gear is safe to use too, so long as I've set it up
first.

--
Smert' spamionam

Juergen Hannappel writes:

Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous
portable
power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly dangerous (given,

Chainsaws alow for some extra dangerous usages. This summer i saw two
construction workors installing plastic water tubing and cutting the
tubes with a chainsaw. One worker kneeled on he street holding the
pipe (~10" diameter) with two hands in front of him, the other kneeled
on the street facing him and cutting the tube between the first
workers hands with a chainsaw... Neither wore any protective clothing,
face shield or ear protection.

Jeez, man. That makes my skin crawl to think of it. I've written books on
chainsaws, dropped a lot of trees, managed to nick a kneecap with one, and have
never even considered doing anything close to that idiotic. When I was doing a
lot of cutting, though, ear protection and protective clothing were hard to
locate. Thirty years changes a bunch of things.

Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

Juergen Hannappel wrote:

otforme (Charlie Self) writes:


[...]

Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous
portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly
dangerous (given,

Chainsaws alow for some extra dangerous usages. This summer i saw two
construction workors installing plastic water tubing and cutting the
tubes with a chainsaw. One worker kneeled on he street holding the
pipe (~10" diameter) with two hands in front of him, the other kneeled
on the street facing him and cutting the tube between the first
workers hands with a chainsaw... Neither wore any protective clothing,
face shield or ear protection.


That is just Darwin at work. When you legislate for the lowest common
denominator, the rest of the population gets excessive inconvience and
the gene pool suffers. Pretty soon everyone is the lowest common
denominator. )

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Lobby Dosser responds:

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..


I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw
use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is
slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less
dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic.

It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a
chainsaw now in the UK.


Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous
portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly
dangerous (given, though, that anything with a blade with teeth and a
motor driving it can cause considerable damage).

I agree that the chainsaw has far more potential for damage than the
bandsaw, but the UK tends to go overboard when it comes to stuff like
this. IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now.

They'll get my chainsaw when they pry it from my cold dead hands - no
doubt just after I've cut off a leg. )

Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he
would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message

That is just Darwin at work. When you legislate for the lowest common
denominator, the rest of the population gets excessive inconvience and
the gene pool suffers. Pretty soon everyone is the lowest common
denominator. )

IOW, the more you protect someone from their own folly, the more fools you
have.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On 14 Nov 2004 08:00:13 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

SB asks:

I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a
good choice for saws.
The main problem at the moment is..

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so
that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can
imagine it)

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..


I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw use in the
UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is slightly easier to use than
the tablesaw, and a good deal less dangerous, so if the law exists, it's
idiotic.


Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can
accomodate dado blades.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:54:55 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:32:04 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

I think you need special dispensation or something to use a
chainsaw now in the UK.

You need a licence to stand _near_to_ someone else using a chainsaw.

.... snip

There are a series of licences for chainsaw operators, light felling,
heavy felling, and working at height with chainsaws. You're not even
allowed to buy a top-handle chainsaw without the right licence.

As to the actual injury rates, forestry in the UK has a good safety
record. If you hear of an accident, chances are that it's a farmer
with no training, no safety kit, and using an ancient unbraked saw
that was being hard to start.


and probably because he couldn't buy a new chainsaw since buying a new
one requires a license which he most likely doesn't have, but he does have
an ancient chainsaw with no safety features.

Law of unintended consequences sucks, doesn't it? ;-)

"SB" wrote in message ...
Hi,

I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be a
good choice for saws.
The main problem at the moment is..

My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was so
that some idiots didn't "accidently" chop peoples fingers off. (You can
imagine it)

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..

SB


My dad is a part time wood turning tutor at an Adult Education college.
He once showed me a machinery guidance manual he was issued with while
on a safety course. It was mainly written for schools, although sadly
most of the rules also apply for adults attending his courses.

As far as I recall it states that responsible students are allowed to use
table top bandsaws like a 3 wheel burgess (subject to proper instruction
/ supervision of course), but should not use floor standing models.
(Personally, I think tabletop bandsaws are probably less safe
than a well designed full sized machine).

I don't know if that is a hard and fast rule, thankfully the advisor
agreed that his adults could use a proper bandsaw once they'd been
shown its correct use.

I think there was also something about qualified adult students
being allowed to use a tablesaw.

If I remember correctly table mounted routers, spindle moulders
and radial arm saws were not permitted.

They also objected to the use of a roughing gouge to remove the
corners from square stock on the lathe, favouring bandsawing
them off as safer. Not something we would agree with.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now.

No, nor to use one on your own land.

Only if you're looking to buy a top-handle machine (which is a whole
pile more dangerous), or you're looking to do "work" with one.
--
Smert' spamionam

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:17:10 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

and probably because he couldn't buy a new chainsaw since buying a new
one requires a license

Great justification - shame it's entirely untrue.
--
Smert' spamionam

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:13:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can
accomodate dado blades.

There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with
long arbors to take dado sets. Dado blades (Freud) are available from
my nearest high street toolshop (for lack of space they don't sell
any machines big enough to use them).


--
Smert' spamionam

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now.

No, nor to use one on your own land.

Only if you're looking to buy a top-handle machine (which is a whole
pile more dangerous), or you're looking to do "work" with one.

I think all of our chainsaws in the US are top-handle. Don't remember
seeing anything else. I see the top-handle as offering better control.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:30:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

I see the top-handle as offering better control.

Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw.

All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A
"top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and
you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and
control any kickback.

They're basically dangerous and uncontrollable. They're only
justifiable if you're working up a tree and need one hand for yourself
- more an arborist's tool than a lumberman's. If you get a kickback,
the saw _will_ jump up, because you simply can't control it in one
hand. Your only hope of vaguely safe working is to reliably always
know that when it jumps, you aren't where it's going to be heading.
This requires skill and practice.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:30:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

I see the top-handle as offering better control.

Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw.

All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A
"top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and
you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and
control any kickback.

Are you quite sure about that Andy? I looked at one on a web site and it
looked like a two handed saw, just that the right hand grabs a handle that
is on the top rear portion of the saw instead of the very rear of the saw.
All the same, it looks to be very much a two handed saw. It certainly does
not look as easy to control as a standard configuration.
--

-Mike-

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:58:57 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:17:10 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

and probably because he couldn't buy a new chainsaw since buying a new
one requires a license

Great justification - shame it's entirely untrue.

Based that upon your earlier posting indicating a license was needed to
buy a top-handled chain saw. After your subsequent posting explaining that
the top-handled chain saw is not the same as what we here in the US would
think it to be, I stand corrected.

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:00:31 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:13:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can
accomodate dado blades.

There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with
long arbors to take dado sets. Dado blades (Freud) are available from
my nearest high street toolshop (for lack of space they don't sell
any machines big enough to use them).

My comment is based upon discussions in the newsgroup, for example,
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=db211059.0210240433.57533 85b%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3DUK%2Bdado%2Bblade%2Barbor%2Bban%26hl% 3Den%26lr%3D%26selm%3Ddb211059.0210240433.5753385b %2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D2

Sun, Nov 14, 2004, 1:16pm (EST+5)
(Andy=A0Dingley)
snip A bandsaw is generally a pretty safe machine. snip

Yup, you'd think. But, so is one of those paper cutters, where you
have to use one hand to hold down the clamp, and the other to work the
lever, so it's plysically impossible to get your fingers near the blade
while it's being used. So, one of my clerks, in Germany, was trying to
impress the German secretary from upstairs (a cute female German). So
he offerred to cut the paper for her. And, proceeded to cut the tip of
one of his fingers off.

I'm not real sure how you'd define that little act. An idiot doing
something a genius couldn't pull off, maybe? Definitely no doubt about
the kid being an idiot tho. He was really amazed when he came back to
the office, stands behind me, and says, "Sarge?", kinda worried like.
And, I didn't even look around, just said, "You hurt yourself, didn't
you?". He just couldn't understand how I knew that. I just knew him.
My kids might hurt themselves, but at least they aren't idiots.



JOAT
Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification.
- Publilius Syrus

well I did a quick google search and all the "top handle chainsaws" I found
seem to be one hand only - see
http://www.shindaiwa.com/products/chain_saws/ch357.html and
http://www.asktooltalk.com/home/gene...g/solo/633.htm for
examples.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
link.net...

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:30:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

I see the top-handle as offering better control.

Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw.

All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A
"top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and
you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and
control any kickback.

Are you quite sure about that Andy? I looked at one on a web site and it
looked like a two handed saw, just that the right hand grabs a handle that
is on the top rear portion of the saw instead of the very rear of the saw.
All the same, it looks to be very much a two handed saw. It certainly
does
not look as easy to control as a standard configuration.
--

-Mike-

Sun, Nov 14, 2004, 1:16pm (EST+5)
(Andy=A0Dingley)
snip Circular saws will amputate a finger snip

I knew a guy (friend of my dad) who almost did himself in with a
circular saw. He was cutting something, and pinned the guard back.
And, then proceeded to cut the thick part of his thigh, down to the bone
- nicked it. And, he survived it - after about a 6 month recovery
period. I think he was going to rest it on his leg, forgetting the
blade was pinned back. If he hadn't screwed with it, he probably
wouldn't even have had a nick. Every once in awhile the government, or
whoever, gets things right. Unfortunately, too often, they screw it up
instead. But, whoever thought up that circular saw guard idea was doing
good that day.

This was the same guy who used a piece of cardboard to pattern a
shotgun. And, leaned it against his aluminum fishing boat. He wound up
patching a whole LOT of holes in that boat.



JOAT
Any plan is bad which is incapable of modification.
- Publilius Syrus

"SB" wrote in message
...


I got an email from saying that a bandsaw may be
a
good choice for saws.

Yeah - my thought was, if you're on a budget, I'd be tempted to buy a mini
bandsaw before I bought one of those mini table saws you found.


My CDT (woodwork) teacher told the class that we couldn't use the bandsaw
because you had to be over 18 and have a licence. I highly think this was
so

What does he say about a table saw? Is that OK?

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 01:30:05 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

I see the top-handle as offering better control.

Then that's not a top-handle chainsaw.

All (?) chainsaws have a top handle. Most have a rear handle too. A
"top handle" saw _only_ has a top handle. You use it one-handed and
you don't have the rear handle to give you an extra couple to try and
control any kickback.

They're basically dangerous and uncontrollable. They're only
justifiable if you're working up a tree and need one hand for yourself
- more an arborist's tool than a lumberman's. If you get a kickback,
the saw _will_ jump up, because you simply can't control it in one
hand. Your only hope of vaguely safe working is to reliably always
know that when it jumps, you aren't where it's going to be heading.
This requires skill and practice.

Then I've Never seen them here. Your description may be the reason why
I've never seen them here. Pros I know here use the standard models one
handed while up a tree.

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

(Charlie Self) wrote:

Lobby Dosser responds:

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..


I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw
use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is
slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less
dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic.

It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a
chainsaw now in the UK.


Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous
portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly
dangerous (given, though, that anything with a blade with teeth and a
motor driving it can cause considerable damage).

I agree that the chainsaw has far more potential for damage than the
bandsaw, but the UK tends to go overboard when it comes to stuff like
this. IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now.

They'll get my chainsaw when they pry it from my cold dead hands - no
doubt just after I've cut off a leg. )

Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he
would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

or, they're cold and dead because you cut THEM off..

mac davis wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:22:36 GMT, Lobby Dosser
wrote:

(Charlie Self) wrote:

Lobby Dosser responds:

Please could you tell me if this is true or not..


I can't tell you if it's true about licensing and age for bandsaw
use in the UK, but it sounds like complete BS. The bandsaw is
slightly easier to use than the tablesaw, and a good deal less
dangerous, so if the law exists, it's idiotic.

It may. I think you need special dispensation or something to use a
chainsaw now in the UK.


Quite a difference, though. A chainsaw is one of the most dangerous
portable power tools around, while a bandsaw is not particularly
dangerous (given, though, that anything with a blade with teeth and
a motor driving it can cause considerable damage).

I agree that the chainsaw has far more potential for damage than the
bandsaw, but the UK tends to go overboard when it comes to stuff like
this. IIRC, you need a license to buy a chainsaw now.

They'll get my chainsaw when they pry it from my cold dead hands - no
doubt just after I've cut off a leg. )

Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he
would promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

or, they're cold and dead because you cut THEM off..


Both? I can't think of a way to do that, but I suppose someone's done it.
Seems to be no end to the bizarre 'accidents' possible with tools.

JOAT writes:

I knew a guy (friend of my dad) who almost did himself in with a
circular saw. He was cutting something, and pinned the guard back.

Fairly common, and stupid, procedure. A few years ago, a guy was trimming the
bottom line of some vertical siding boards for me, using an old gear driven
Skil saw. He pinned his guard back and went about the job. I asked him not to,
but he told me he did it "all the time." I went around the building, because it
made me nervous to watch. He was fine, and probably still is, but the procedure
saves about two seconds a day in such work, and is dangerous as all get out.

Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 03:16:58 GMT, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Are you quite sure about that Andy?

No, because there will always be some other design out there that I've
not seen. If there's room on the top of the case, then there could
well be space for another handle, or just more handroom in a longer
handle.

That would probably be even less safe - it encourages you to use it as
a two-handled saw, but really you're still only getting a single grip
on it. It's not the number of hands you're using, it's the distance
you can get between them.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:37:17 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with
long arbors to take dado sets.

My comment is based upon discussions in the newsgroup,

Well in that case DCs also suffer regular static explosions.

There is _no_ UK law against dado sets. There is a law (part of PUWER
98) that requires a rapid stop. As this is awkward to achieve with a
heavy dado set (you'd need to fit electric braking, which is
expensive), the cheapest fix for new retail machines is to shorten the
arbor.

If you have a long arbor you can still use it.
If you have a long arbor you can still sell it.

If you want to use a machine in a commercial workshop - any age of
machine - it now needs to comply to this spin-down regulation, even if
that requires retrofitting a brake. OTOH, we did get 5 years warning
of this ruling coming into effect.

--
Smert' spamionam

That Solo even _looks_ dangerous. Appears that these actually have two
hand-holds at right angles, however. I'm sure most people use both
simultaneously. Guy who sold me my first saw years ago used to show the
left hand - less index finger - and say "when you're holding both handles,
it can't happen."

Oh yes, never drop-start your chainsaw with the throttle lock engaged.

"Doug Brown" wrote in message
...
well I did a quick google search and all the "top handle chainsaws" I
found
seem to be one hand only - see
http://www.shindaiwa.com/products/chain_saws/ch357.html and
http://www.asktooltalk.com/home/gene...g/solo/633.htm for
examples.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 00:00:31 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:13:31 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Well, this is the same country that has banned selling tablesaws that can
accomodate dado blades.

There is no European or UK ban on the use of or sale of tablesaws with
long arbors to take dado sets. Dado blades (Freud) are available from
my nearest high street toolshop (for lack of space they don't sell
any machines big enough to use them).

My comment is based upon discussions in the newsgroup, for example,

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ps%3Fq%3DUK%2B
dado%2Bblade%2Barbor%2Bban%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sel m%3Ddb211059.0210240433.5753385b%2540posting.googl e.com%26rnum%3D2


I'm not aware of any laws in the UK that restrict saw arbor length.
There's certainly no ban on the sale of dado saws. I wouldn't
say they were widely available, however Machine Mart
now stocks them, including in the EU standard 30mm bore.

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=060620496


Dado blades don't seem to be popular in industry -
at least I've never seen a set in a liquidation auction.

There could be a problem with recent safety rules requiring
the blade to come to a halt in under 30 seconds. New
saws are electrically braked so I guess there might be a
risk of the dado blade's inertia loosening the nut or
just taking too long to spin down.

(These rules aren't enforced for hobbyists and one
man businesses)

There is a uk Health and Safety sheet on table saws he-
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

"Mel" writes:


[...]


I'm not aware of any laws in the UK that restrict saw arbor length.
There's certainly no ban on the sale of dado saws. I wouldn't

AFAIK wobble dados are forbidden.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

Andy Dingley responds:

There is _no_ UK law against dado sets. There is a law (part of PUWER
98) that requires a rapid stop. As this is awkward to achieve with a
heavy dado set (you'd need to fit electric braking, which is
expensive), the cheapest fix for new retail machines is to shorten the
arbor.

If you have a long arbor you can still use it.
If you have a long arbor you can still sell it.

If you want to use a machine in a commercial workshop - any age of
machine - it now needs to comply to this spin-down regulation, even if
that requires retrofitting a brake. OTOH, we did get 5 years warning
of this ruling coming into effect.

What's the spin down time. If it isn't instant stop, a la Saw Stop, it seems
useless to me. A hand stuck in a dado blade is going to get chewed up about as
much as possible in 30 seconds as compared to 60 seconds.

Spin down time and the use of electric brakes on power tools have always seemed
to me to more beneficial in stopping the blade quickly so the next operation
can be started, not as a safety measure, though it might also serve as such on
some circular saws (Skil type) and one or two miter saws, always assuming those
don't have guards.

Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken

Juergen Hannappel writes:

I'm not aware of any laws in the UK that restrict saw arbor length.
There's certainly no ban on the sale of dado saws. I wouldn't

AFAIK wobble dados are forbidden.

Well, hell, that even makes sense, but has zip to do with safety. They're nasty
tools, hard to adjust, leaving a V shaped groove bottom, and they sound awful.

Now, ask me how I feel about wobble dado sets.

Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken