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Old December 30th 18, 07:12 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default American Chestnut

Sonny mentioned he wanted to plant chestnut trees -
here's a link showing native range & much more info :

https://www.acf.org/the-american-che...ive-range-map/

https://www.americanforests.org/maga...ican-chestnut/

A quick google search for american chestnut planting range
returns some other good looking links.

John T.


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Old December 30th 18, 08:31 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default American Chestnut

As I understand, original trees or growth will sprout from root/trunk stock, but after about 5 years, the blight will kill them. The blight bug is in those areas, still. If this is correct, original growth is still available, but only when young.

I'm hoping the Morrow area has no blight infestation in the area, despite its propensity to migrate by seemingly various means. I suppose aspect of infestation may flow down the Miss. River, but hopefully Morrow is far enough away from the flood plain not to be affected.

Two year old trees only cost $20 ea., so a potential stand of 10-20 trees, plus labor, is not that much of a gamble. Two yr old trees seem to have a better survival rate than the 1 yr olds ($17 ea), when transplanting, so I'm considering getting the 2 yr olds.

Sonny
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Old December 30th 18, 08:44 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Also, as I understand, original stock (not hybridized) is growing west of the Rockies, brought/planted there by pioneers long ago. The blight apparently hasn't yet cross over the Rockies. So, original seed and trees are still available, if this is correct.

Sonny
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Old December 30th 18, 09:14 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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On 12/30/2018 1:31 PM, Sonny wrote:
As I understand, original trees or growth will sprout from root/trunk stock, but after about 5 years, the blight will kill them. The blight bug is in those areas, still. If this is correct, original growth is still available, but only when young.

....

Actually, it's not an insect but a fungus... Chryphonectria parasitica
was introduced into the United States from imported Japanese nursery
stock around the turn of 20th century.

Mortality is true for 99+% of all that have been found...these specific
specimens are almost unique in that they have shown resistance to the
blight which is why VPI guards their location so zealously, they're the
basis stock for their research into trying to breed resistance.

As said, the one or two largest were approaching 50-ft when I was there
in summer of '77 (we moved to TN in '78) and I've not been back since to
see what may have transpired.

They were quite remote but even around the particular specimens, most
other regrowth succumbed within a few years so it wasn't that they were
totally isolated; these few specimens, did, in fact, have some
resistance others didn't/don't have.

There are a few other random areas that a some other specimens have
survived for significant times altho I've not looked for details in at
least 20 years to know just what stature any may have attained by now or
if they still survive...

I don't even know for sure about the VPI ones altho one hopes...

--


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Old December 31st 18, 05:23 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default American Chestnut

On 12/30/2018 2:14 PM, dpb wrote:
....

I don't even know for sure about the VPI ones altho one hopes...


The individuals I knew by name are, not surprisingly, no longer at VPI
(they're all _well_ past retirement age by now, of course) and a (very)
quick DAGS didn't uncover much current work at VPI; it appears the focus
has gone to the American Chestnut Foundation rather than so many
individual programs/grants that were the pattern then..

I didn't find any online pictures of the specimens they were guarding
which also doesn't surprise me much given the time frame and their
almost paranoia about the location becoming known to the general public
for fear of poachers...the location of one earlier specimen of even
larger size had gotten out and it had been harvested by somebody in the
dead of the night so they had reason for concern...

I did find one image of one up in W MA...

https://d279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.net/wp/2018/04/chestnut1.jpg

--
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Old January 1st 19, 01:18 AM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default American Chestnut

On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-6, dpb wrote:
On 12/30/2018 1:31 PM, Sonny wrote:
As I understand, original trees or growth will sprout from root/trunk stock, but after about 5 years, the blight will kill them.


The blight bug.....


Actually, it's not an insect but a fungus... Chryphonectria parasitica


Yeah, I used the wrong word. My concern is, no matter what plant(s) I get, how can I know, for sure, the fungus (dormant or not) is not in the soil or embedded in the plant, itself.

Seems no one knows, for sure, where the fungus may be residing in any particular scenario. Seems it has multiple venues of transport and multiple host paths, i.e., the soil, air, water or *plants, for infecting. As to *Plants, there may be plants, other than chestnut, where the fungus can reside, in limbo.

There's this tree in Tumwater, Wash.
https://tgaw.wordpress.com/2011/06/0...er-washington/

Link above, the guy's Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tgaw/s...7626719600594/
These trees don't seem to be typical tall trees, with branches starting high up. There's no confirming they aren't hybrid. Supposedly, west of the Rockies old trees are blight and hybrid free.

Sonny


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Old January 1st 19, 09:56 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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On 12/31/2018 6:18 PM, Sonny wrote:
On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 2:15:06 PM UTC-6, dpb wrote:
On 12/30/2018 1:31 PM, Sonny wrote:
As I understand, original trees or growth will sprout from root/trunk stock, but after about 5 years, the blight will kill them.


The blight bug.....


Actually, it's not an insect but a fungus... Chryphonectria parasitica


Yeah, I used the wrong word. My concern is, no matter what plant(s) I get, how can I know, for sure, the fungus (dormant or not) is not in the soil or embedded in the plant, itself.

Seems no one knows, for sure, where the fungus may be residing in any particular scenario. Seems it has multiple venues of transport and multiple host paths, i.e., the soil, air, water or *plants, for infecting. As to *Plants, there may be plants, other than chestnut, where the fungus can reside, in limbo.

There's this tree in Tumwater, Wash.
https://tgaw.wordpress.com/2011/06/0...er-washington/

Link above, the guy's Flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tgaw/s...7626719600594/
These trees don't seem to be typical tall trees, with branches starting high up. There's no confirming they aren't hybrid. Supposedly, west of the Rockies old trees are blight and hybrid free.


Anywhere in the East in the original native range I think you can simply
presume the fungus is present in some form or the other and probably far
beyond that.

Indeed, there are numerous plants with varying levels of
tolerance/resistance; some of the most promising work I was aware of had
to do with the idea of gene splicing from wheat cultivars.

West of the Rockies, any chestnut you find is an exotic; they aren't
native. You can probably eliminate the Tumwater specimens as being
hybrids simply from their age as before anybody was working on the
project.

That they aren't fully typical isn't too surprising to me; who knows
what sort of childhood they had being in the park that may have
influenced their growth plus Tumwater, WA, isn't the Eastern
Appalachians (albeit it is interesting that the understory growth of the
Coastal Range out there is very much similar to that of the Blue Ridge
and Smokies; simply that the dominant species are the Doug fir and
hemlocks instead of oaks and other hardwoods.

By coincidence, my younger daughter happens to be in Tumwater and has
been for 20 years+ now...I'll have to investigate when we're there next;
I wasn't aware of them; not sure whether she is or not.

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Old January 2nd 19, 02:40 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default American Chestnut

On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 at 2:56:08 PM UTC-6, dpb wrote:

West of the Rockies, any chestnut you find is an exotic; they aren't
native. You can probably eliminate the Tumwater specimens as being
hybrids simply from their age as before anybody was working on the
project.


In that link, the guy was a visitor, vacationing I assume. No relevant info about the tree.

I don't recall where I read it, but one source mentioned the pioneers planting original specimens when they went west, hence not hybridized. The article mentioned the fungus not migrating beyond the Rockies. I have no idea if, since that writing, if the fungus has moved west. I like to think there are still fungus free trees or nuts to be had.

I haven't called/contacted the Georgia firm, but will today, and find out just what stock they have. Their listings state "authentic product", but that may not necessarily mean fungus free. I need to know exactly what "authentic" means and relative to the fungus. One would assume if they are fungus free or hybrid free, then the Chestnut Foundation folks would be aware, hence these trees are suspect.
https://www.willisorchards.com/produ...e#.XCqpVFxKiUn

Sonny
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Old January 2nd 19, 05:43 PM posted to rec.woodworking
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Default American Chestnut

On 1/2/2019 7:40 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Tuesday, January 1, 2019 at 2:56:08 PM UTC-6, dpb wrote:

West of the Rockies, any chestnut you find is an exotic; they aren't
native. You can probably eliminate the Tumwater specimens as being
hybrids simply from their age as before anybody was working on the
project.


In that link, the guy was a visitor, vacationing I assume. No relevant info about the tree.

I don't recall where I read it, but one source mentioned the pioneers planting original specimens when they went west, hence not hybridized. The article mentioned the fungus not migrating beyond the Rockies. I have no idea if, since that writing, if the fungus has moved west. I like to think there are still fungus free trees or nuts to be had.


I sent the details to daughter; she knows where the park is; she'll
check it out and see what else she can uncover about its provenance when
has time...

I haven't called/contacted the Georgia firm, but will today, and find out just what stock they have. Their listings state "authentic product", but that may not necessarily mean fungus free. I need to know exactly what "authentic" means and relative to the fungus. One would assume if they are fungus free or hybrid free, then the Chestnut Foundation folks would be aware, hence these trees are suspect.
https://www.willisorchards.com/produ...e#.XCqpVFxKiUn


They're pretty short on any details on the web site, fur shure...

I'd presume in a nursery they can afford enough preventative care via
fungicides and such and with rotating stock to avoid active infection
while in the nursery itself.

The problem I'd see is you have no way to know what has transpired in
your area previously -- is there any documentary history going back to
the time the area was initially cleared to know if there was any
standing hardwood timber after the time of introduction to the US?

Or, like much developed ground, if there were chestnuts there at one,
time had they been clearcut long before the fungus may have reached the
area?

Then again, the fungus could have been transported on other stock that
isn't susceptible any way, and may be lurking as you note. I don't know
that there's any common way to test--I suppose some lab could do soil
testing for a price.

--




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