On 6/18/2018 9:42 PM, Michael wrote:
....

Questions about Season 1, Episode 1, the oak medicine cabinet:
1) Does he really need to nail on the face frame? Won't the glue hold it in place?
2) Does he need the dowels to hold his thru-tenon on the door? Won't the glue alone hold that joint place also?

I would be inclined just to use glue, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Mike

If had a nickel for every time he said "to hold in place while the glue
dries"!

I always figured a lot of his tool and production choices were driven by
the fact that he had tool sponsors who wanted (as in expected/demanded)
their tools be front and foremost to continue the financial backing...

--

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 12:45:03 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

If had a nickel for every time he said "to hold in place while the glue
dries"!

I never understood the hysterical screeching that surfaced here and other woodworking venues when he used the brad gun. It's just a small trim nail.... to me it was a good idea. I never watched Norm until the last few years he was on, so I don't know if he represented it as some "super tool" or "ultimate woodworking solution" to draw the ire of the home woodworker. It was awful on Sawmill Creek.

I didn't understand it because by the time I found the opportunity to watch it on a Saturday afternoon he just pulled out the brad gun and pegged something as needed. Although we didn't have pneumatic tools back then on the job (only framing guns) we had been using "a" screw or "a" nail to hold things in place while glues set for many years.

I always figured a lot of his tool and production choices were driven by
the fact that he had tool sponsors who wanted (as in expected/demanded)
their tools be front and foremost to continue the financial backing...

No doubt.

The only thing I ever had a real problem with that Norm did was trying to watch his finishing. As a professional finisher/refinisher, it was really painful sometimes to see the wrong materials used, materials applied incorrectly, and incorrect prep procedures.

I thought a lot of his projects were pretty interesting, but as I said I didn't seem them until the run of the show was about 75% or more complete.

Robert

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 5:57:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:

The only thing I ever had a real problem with that Norm did was trying to watch his finishing. As a professional finisher/refinisher, it was really painful sometimes to see the wrong materials used, materials applied incorrectly, and incorrect prep procedures.


Pretty sure Norm started out life as a carpenter, home builder. Not as a fine furniture woodworker. So for him a paint brush or roller and paint or varnish was finishing. Maybe he also had experience with rubbing boiled linseed oil on something too.

On 6/19/2018 5:57 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 12:45:03 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

If had a nickel for every time he said "to hold in place while the glue
dries"!

I never understood the hysterical screeching that surfaced here and other woodworking venues when he used the brad gun. It's just a small trim nail... to me it was a good idea. I never watched Norm until the last few years he was on, so I don't know if he represented it as some "super tool" or "ultimate woodworking solution" to draw the ire of the home woodworker. It was awful on Sawmill Creek.
....

As another says, he started as carpenter and the projects weren't
intended as anything but what they were as beginning to intermediate
handyman projects for the amateur.

Many (and, I'd wager of those who did, a very low percentage were truly
of markedly higher skill sets) wanted to judge as if he were building
high-quality reproductions or the like.

--

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 7:18:26 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

As another says, he started as carpenter and the projects weren't
intended as anything but what they were as beginning to intermediate
handyman projects for the amateur.

I have to agree with both of you. I just watched a couple of his videos. Season 1, episodes 1&2. You hit it on the head. It is a thirty year old video and the techniques and designs reflect that. The shop was cleaned out and not at all crowded. I got a real kick out of him using a radial arm saw, a drill press that I swear was a Shop Smith, and a Makita router with the badge taken off.

He made a shaker style medicine cabinet and it was a walk down memory lane. He NAILED the rails and stiles on the face of the cabinet (the way I was taught!)and had no brad nailer. He nailed till flush and then counter sunk the nail with a set.

He screwed the back of the cabinet on with 1" sheetrock screws. Instead of using nice (or decorative) hinges, he used a full door length brass piano hinge. He even pinned the corner of the door joinery with a couple of dowels, and ground them off with a belt sander. When finished, he rounded over the door edges with a hand held router, no table.

I have to say this, it sure made woodworking look "doable", and accessible. The finishing... well, he could have spent a day or so in the library to help that out.


Many (and, I'd wager of those who did, a very low percentage were truly
of markedly higher skill sets) wanted to judge as if he were building
high-quality reproductions or the like.

Yeah, I see that all the time. I started out as a trade carpenter that did everything from setting concrete forms to site building cabinets. When I go to an amateur's home, I find that the guys that have the MOST skills are the most humble and are almost shy about their efforts. I have seen a lot of good work from home shops over the years. But I have to bite my tongue around the braggarts that go on and on and on because they are so proud about their minimal skills and very few rudimentary projects.

Worse are the guys that think because the have spent a fortune on tools, it has somehow brought their skill level up to match the amount of money they have in those tools. With $20K in tools and a dedicated shop, they think they are experts. Coincidentally, almost without exception the guys that have the most money in tools and the most expensive tools seem to do very few projects. They sure like to talk about woodwork, cabinet building, and the things they are "thinking" about doing.

I remember when Norm came to Woodcraft as a promotion a couple of different times. The guys that hung around him for a bit and then took him to dinner said he was a really nice guy, soft spoken and polite. They did tell me on both trips the last thing he wanted to talk about was anything to do with woodworking.

Robert

On 6/19/2018 12:44 PM, dpb wrote:
On 6/18/2018 9:42 PM, Michael wrote:
...

Questions about Season 1, Episode 1, the oak medicine cabinet:
1) Does he really need to nail on the face frame? Won't the glue hold
it in place?
2) Does he need the dowels to hold his thru-tenon on the door? Won't
the glue alone hold that joint place also?

I would be inclined just to use glue, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Mike

If had a nickel for every time he said "to hold in place while the glue
dries"!Â*

I always figured a lot of his tool and production choices were driven by
the fact that he had tool sponsors who wanted (as in expected/demanded)
their tools be front and foremost to continue the financial backing...

--



Yeah but if you are actually selling your work and or trying to make a
living you would be using a nail gun too. I do. ;~)

While not using a nail gun or similar short cut tool is nothing any of
us want to do, it saves time and time is.......money..

On 6/19/2018 5:57 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 12:45:03 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

If had a nickel for every time he said "to hold in place while the glue
dries"!

I never understood the hysterical screeching that surfaced here and other woodworking venues when he used the brad gun. It's just a small trim nail... to me it was a good idea. I never watched Norm until the last few years he was on, so I don't know if he represented it as some "super tool" or "ultimate woodworking solution" to draw the ire of the home woodworker. It was awful on Sawmill Creek.

Agreed



I didn't understand it because by the time I found the opportunity to watch it on a Saturday afternoon he just pulled out the brad gun and pegged something as needed. Although we didn't have pneumatic tools back then on the job (only framing guns) we had been using "a" screw or "a" nail to hold things in place while glues set for many years.

I always figured a lot of his tool and production choices were driven by
the fact that he had tool sponsors who wanted (as in expected/demanded)
their tools be front and foremost to continue the financial backing...

No doubt.

The only thing I ever had a real problem with that Norm did was trying to watch his finishing. As a professional finisher/refinisher, it was really painful sometimes to see the wrong materials used, materials applied incorrectly, and incorrect prep procedures.

It was the stains that were almost opaque over cherry or walnut that
made me cringe. He may as well have used poplar to begin with.





I thought a lot of his projects were pretty interesting, but as I said I didn't seem them until the run of the show was about 75% or more complete.

Robert

I was always interested in all of his projects up to finishing, he did a
great job on the vast majority.

On 6/20/2018 8:29 AM, Leon wrote:
....

Yeah but if you are actually selling your work and or trying to make a
living you would be using a nail gun too.Â* I do.Â* ;~)

While not using a nail gun or similar short cut tool is nothing any of
us want to do, it saves time and time is.......money..

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

On 6/20/2018 8:41 AM, dpb wrote:
On 6/20/2018 8:29 AM, Leon wrote:
...

Yeah but if you are actually selling your work and or trying to make a
living you would be using a nail gun too.Â* I do.Â* ;~)

While not using a nail gun or similar short cut tool is nothing any of
us want to do, it saves time and time is.......money..

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

LOL. And as soon as I hit send I thought of a few too. I might throw
in the stickler that if making "spec" inventory furniture you might not
use the brand or pinner gun. When a customer is saying OK, now that we
have agreed on the design and price, when can you deliver...

I sell 90% of my work as ordered. I'll use my pinner or my brad nail
gun to attach a gusset or reinforcement under a drawer, until the glue
dries. ;~)

On 6/20/2018 9:00 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/20/2018 8:41 AM, dpb wrote:
On 6/20/2018 8:29 AM, Leon wrote:
...

Yeah but if you are actually selling your work and or trying to make
a living you would be using a nail gun too.Â* I do.Â* ;~)

While not using a nail gun or similar short cut tool is nothing any
of us want to do, it saves time and time is.......money..

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

LOL. And as soon as I hit send I thought of a few too.Â*Â* I might throw
in the stickler that if making "spec" inventory furniture you might not
use the brand or pinner gun.Â* When a customer is saying OK, now that we
have agreed on the design and price, when can you deliver...

I sell 90% of my work as ordered.Â* I'll use my pinner or my brad nail
gun to attach a gusset or reinforcement under a drawer, until the glue
dries.Â* ;~)

Sure. The point is that Norm on NYW wasn't building fine furniture but
doing home hobbyist projects...and custom cabinet making isn't the same
market, either, however well executed.

To complain of Norm and the brads is just missing the complete nature of
the beast and simply illustrates ignorance on the side of the
complainer, not a fault in Norm's technique.

Now, one could, if one so chose, take the basics of a project plan and
execute it with appropriate modifications for authenticity and technique
and turn it into something else, but that wouldn't be for the same
audience at all.

--

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 6/20/2018 8:29 AM, Leon wrote:
...

Yeah but if you are actually selling your work and or trying to make a
living you would be using a nail gun too.Â* I do.Â* ;~)

While not using a nail gun or similar short cut tool is nothing any of
us want to do, it saves time and time is.......money..

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 6/20/2018 8:29 AM, Leon wrote:
...

Yeah but if you are actually selling your work and or trying to make a
living you would be using a nail gun too.* I do.* ;~)

While not using a nail gun or similar short cut tool is nothing any of
us want to do, it saves time and time is.......money..

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html



Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?

I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.

On 6/20/2018 12:08 PM, Michael wrote:
On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
....

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html

Yes, I'm sure it is.

He is perfectionist in all things including selection of the materials
and matching grain, etc.

While not the only wood he uses; it is his stock-in-trade.

--

On 6/20/2018 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
....

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html



Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?

I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.

You have to see and feel one of his pieces to fully appreciate; pictures
don't do justice to the "fit and feel".

And, say he has a busy year and builds 30 pieces at an average of $4,000
each -- that still only grosses $120,000/yr and in ME to heat the shop
over the winter will take half that!

--

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:26:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/20/2018 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
...

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html



Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?

I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.

You have to see and feel one of his pieces to fully appreciate; pictures
don't do justice to the "fit and feel".

And, say he has a busy year and builds 30 pieces at an average of $4,000
each -- that still only grosses $120,000/yr and in ME to heat the shop
over the winter will take half that!


I don't doubt that it's very nice hand-made furniture ..
I just don't move in the social circles where anyone knows anyone
who would pay $ 6 grand US almost $ 8 grand Canadian
for that "computer table " ..
.. and then have to go shopping for a chair ! :-)
If I were to ask around here - I'm guessing that the local
craftsmen would maybe charge $ 1200 to build one -
certainly $ 2000. would do it..
John T.

On 6/20/2018 1:56 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:26:22 -0500, dpb wrote:
....

You have to see and feel one of his pieces to fully appreciate; pictures
don't do justice to the "fit and feel".

And, say he has a busy year and builds 30 pieces at an average of $4,000
each -- that still only grosses $120,000/yr and in ME to heat the shop
over the winter will take half that!


I don't doubt that it's very nice hand-made furniture ..
I just don't move in the social circles where anyone knows anyone
who would pay $ 6 grand US almost $ 8 grand Canadian
for that "computer table " ..
.. and then have to go shopping for a chair ! :-)
If I were to ask around here - I'm guessing that the local
craftsmen would maybe charge $ 1200 to build one -
certainly $ 2000. would do it..
John T.


He's been 40 years in building the reputation that will support the
present, too. Certainly the reputation and being well known through the
association with Fine Woodworking hasn't hurt in getting all that
national advertising for the price of writing an article while he builds
a piece so that his potential client pool is hugely wider than a local
without said vehicle; website or no.

Met him and saw some of his work years ago at a juried show; even for
"the trained professional" his work is out of the ordinary in execution.

--

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 1:53:37 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:26:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html



Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?

I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.



I don't doubt that it's very nice hand-made furniture ..
I just don't move in the social circles where anyone knows anyone
who would pay $ 6 grand US almost $ 8 grand Canadian
for that "computer table " ..
.. and then have to go shopping for a chair ! :-)
If I were to ask around here - I'm guessing that the local
craftsmen would maybe charge $ 1200 to build one -
certainly $ 2000. would do it..
John T.

Haven't you been paying attention to the news recently. Trump's secretaries are ordering $30,000 dining tables and $75,000 office doors. So $6,000 for a computer table would be scoffed at. Now I realize the politician's use of "free" government money to pay for this furniture may affect things.

On 6/20/2018 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 6/20/2018 8:29 AM, Leon wrote:
...

Yeah but if you are actually selling your work and or trying to make a
living you would be using a nail gun too.Â* I do.Â* ;~)

While not using a nail gun or similar short cut tool is nothing any of
us want to do, it saves time and time is.......money..

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html



Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?

I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.


Well yes they do... I never had any problem selling my work and my
pieces went in the $2000~$5000 range. There are still some people that
realize this furniture from Ikea will probably not be passed down for
generations.

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...
https://www.chbecksvoort.com/


Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!
https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html



Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?
I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.


Well yes they do... I never had any problem selling my work and my
pieces went in the $2000~$5000 range. There are still some people that
realize this furniture from Ikea will probably not be passed down for
generations.


I gotta call foul when you compare the people who buy
and appreciate solid wood, hand-made furniture -
.. with the people who go to Ikea.
Two different species, in my experience.
John T.

writes:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:26:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/20/2018 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
...

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html



Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?

I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.

You have to see and feel one of his pieces to fully appreciate; pictures
don't do justice to the "fit and feel".

And, say he has a busy year and builds 30 pieces at an average of $4,000
each -- that still only grosses $120,000/yr and in ME to heat the shop
over the winter will take half that!


I don't doubt that it's very nice hand-made furniture ..
I just don't move in the social circles where anyone knows anyone
who would pay $ 6 grand US almost $ 8 grand Canadian
for that "computer table " ..

There is a market for it, see for example:

https://www.thosmoser.com/

Pretty stuff, but pricey.

On 6/20/2018 6:16 PM, wrote:
....

I gotta call foul when you compare the people who buy
and appreciate solid wood, hand-made furniture -
.. with the people who go to Ikea.
Two different species, in my experience.

I think that was _exactly_ the point Leon was making...there are some
who do know the difference and, more importantly, care.

--

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:56:02 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:26:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/20/2018 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 8:41:56 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
...

Again, that depends on what one is building for what target market.
Christian Becksvoort doesn't...

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/

--

Beautiful work. Would you say these side stands are made of cherry? They are on my to do this summer. Thanks!

https://www.chbecksvoort.com/tables.html



Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?

I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.

You have to see and feel one of his pieces to fully appreciate; pictures
don't do justice to the "fit and feel".

And, say he has a busy year and builds 30 pieces at an average of $4,000
each -- that still only grosses $120,000/yr and in ME to heat the shop
over the winter will take half that!


I don't doubt that it's very nice hand-made furniture ..
I just don't move in the social circles where anyone knows anyone
who would pay $ 6 grand US almost $ 8 grand Canadian
for that "computer table " ..
.. and then have to go shopping for a chair ! :-)
If I were to ask around here - I'm guessing that the local
craftsmen would maybe charge $ 1200 to build one -
certainly $ 2000. would do it..

That particular item while it looks nice doesn't really appeal to me.
While my work computer would fit in that drawer, normally I use it
with two 21" monitors that while they will fit on that table will also
fit on any other table of reasonable size, so I see nothing
computer-specific about it. And my home setup has a 40" which would
take up most of the top.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:53:51 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/20/2018 6:16 PM, wrote:
...

I gotta call foul when you compare the people who buy
and appreciate solid wood, hand-made furniture -
.. with the people who go to Ikea.
Two different species, in my experience.

I think that was _exactly_ the point Leon was making...there are some
who do know the difference and, more importantly, care.

And willing to pay for heirloom quality furniture. No idea if the
kids will have the same tastes, however. ;-)

On 6/20/2018 6:19 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:26:22 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/20/2018 12:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote:
....


Crikey ! Do people actually pay those prices ?

I can maybe see such high prices on more time-consuming styles
of furniture that have carving or inlay ... or exotic wood ..
I don't really see it .. even doing hand-cut joinery.
John T.

You have to see and feel one of his pieces to fully appreciate; pictures
don't do justice to the "fit and feel".

And, say he has a busy year and builds 30 pieces at an average of $4,000
each -- that still only grosses $120,000/yr and in ME to heat the shop
over the winter will take half that!


I don't doubt that it's very nice hand-made furniture ..
I just don't move in the social circles where anyone knows anyone
who would pay $ 6 grand US almost $ 8 grand Canadian
for that "computer table " ..

There is a market for it, see for example:

https://www.thosmoser.com/

Pretty stuff, but pricey.

We generally have a view of the early colonial furniture makers as being
"one-off" craftsmen turning out every piece lovingly ... reality was
"not so much"

https://www.colonialsociety.org/publications/3297/boston-and-its-furnituremakers-1650-1860

--

There is a market for it, see for example:

https://www.thosmoser.com/

Pretty stuff, but pricey.

We generally have a view of the early colonial furniture makers as being
"one-off" craftsmen turning out every piece lovingly ... reality was
"not so much"

https://www.colonialsociety.org/publications/3297/boston-and-its-furnituremakers-1650-1860



Good article - thanks for sharing.
I was impressed by the Fig. 14 card table -
used on a yacht .. and one-thing-leads-to-another ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra%27s_Barge

Dang it ... I gotta get off the computer ! :-)
John T.

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 8:37:37 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

We generally have a view of the early colonial furniture makers as being
"one-off" craftsmen turning out every piece lovingly ... reality was
"not so much"

That falls in with the myth that the "old craftsmen" loved to use inaccurate, manual tools that took longer to perform a task, were harder to master, and made the work days much longer.

At this point in my young life with about 45 years in the trades, I have never, ever, once heard any professional say that they prefer to use manual tools versus pneumatics or electric. Having the manual skills to perform a certain task are a tremendous advantage, but no one but the home educated craftsman thinks it is better to cut dadoes with a dado plane, put brads in with a hammer and nail, drill holes with a brace and bit, and cut boards to length with a hand saw.

From custom cabinet makers, casement makers, on to house framers and form setters, everyone is looking for a way to make a basic task repeatable. And faster, easier, with as small a learning curve as possible.

I read once that the required skills needed to complete furniture in the days of Phyfe, Hepplewhite, Chippendale, etc., at the level of craftsmanship needed made it impossible for ONE person to build a piece. There were drawer makers, top makers, joint makers, finishers, etc., all involved in just one piece. No one person made the famous stuff.

And rest assured, anytime an advancement was made in metallurgy creating higher quality tools that made a task go faster, I have no doubt that anyone "in the business" took quick advantage of it.

Robert

On 6/20/2018 9:39 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:53:51 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/20/2018 6:16 PM, wrote:
...

I gotta call foul when you compare the people who buy
and appreciate solid wood, hand-made furniture -
.. with the people who go to Ikea.
Two different species, in my experience.

I think that was _exactly_ the point Leon was making...there are some
who do know the difference and, more importantly, care.

And willing to pay for heirloom quality furniture. No idea if the
kids will have the same tastes, however. ;-)


Regardless of taste, Quality is always in style. ;~)

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 22:39:01 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:53:51 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/20/2018 6:16 PM, wrote:
...

I gotta call foul when you compare the people who buy
and appreciate solid wood, hand-made furniture -
.. with the people who go to Ikea.
Two different species, in my experience.

I think that was _exactly_ the point Leon was making...there are some
who do know the difference and, more importantly, care.

And willing to pay for heirloom quality furniture. No idea if the
kids will have the same tastes, however. ;-)

Kids generally take on the tastes of their parents, it's all about
what they get comfortable with. With obvious exceptions.

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:29:14 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/19/2018 12:44 PM, dpb wrote:
On 6/18/2018 9:42 PM, Michael wrote:
...

Questions about Season 1, Episode 1, the oak medicine cabinet:
1) Does he really need to nail on the face frame? Won't the glue hold
it in place?
2) Does he need the dowels to hold his thru-tenon on the door? Won't
the glue alone hold that joint place also?

I would be inclined just to use glue, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Mike

If had a nickel for every time he said "to hold in place while the glue
dries"!*

I always figured a lot of his tool and production choices were driven by
the fact that he had tool sponsors who wanted (as in expected/demanded)
their tools be front and foremost to continue the financial backing...

--



Yeah but if you are actually selling your work and or trying to make a
living you would be using a nail gun too. I do. ;~)

While not using a nail gun or similar short cut tool is nothing any of
us want to do, it saves time and time is.......money..

This topic kills me, I was just reading an email about a young man,
son of a carpenter/WW who has 20 years experience he says and
Woodcraft Mag, I think it is, who posted his video's, an overall one
for the project, combined with a series of videos on the work broken
down to see exactly how he did it.

He purportedly uses all hand tools and is a skilled craftsman. I
watched the overall video just to see, and he was using all powered
hand tools. Not that I blame him, and his chair, while unusual looked
decent. I saw the flaws he made and covered up. Which everyone does
from time to time, but "Hand tooled Craftsmanship"?

He also has links to all the tools he used.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 16:27:48 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 22:39:01 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:53:51 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 6/20/2018 6:16 PM, wrote:
...

I gotta call foul when you compare the people who buy
and appreciate solid wood, hand-made furniture -
.. with the people who go to Ikea.
Two different species, in my experience.

I think that was _exactly_ the point Leon was making...there are some
who do know the difference and, more importantly, care.

And willing to pay for heirloom quality furniture. No idea if the
kids will have the same tastes, however. ;-)

Kids generally take on the tastes of their parents, it's all about
what they get comfortable with. With obvious exceptions.

Except that this kid has a wife. ;-)