On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:44:25 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 12/28/2015 1:33 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:00:58 -0500, Jack wrote:

On 12/27/2015 8:41 PM, wrote:

It'l rip your arm off if it doesn't start.
A shot of ether and the sucker starts like a champ.

Doesn't need ether - it USUALLY starts on the first or second pull.
But if it decides to balk instead, it snaps back with fury!!!!. I
won't start it on a ladder or in a tree. Too dangerous if it "gets
angry"

Makes a difference what oil you are running as well - and how much.
Doesn';t seem to.

I've had the same chain saw since around 1978. The first tree I cut up
it blew up. My neighbor, a farmer the first 20 years of life, owned a
two man auto repair shop the next 50 years, and a lawnmower repair shop
the next 25 years, told me my mistake was using the 50-1 chainsaw oil
mixture recommend by Sears. He said use regular 20w non-detergent in
something like 9-1 or 20-1, can't recall, it's written on my gas can in
the shed. He said it might smoke a bit, and be hard to start but it
will never freeze up. Arguing with a 95 year old dude that still worked
on small engines 9-9 6 days a week seemed silly, so I gave it a shot.

It was always hard to start, so didn't notice a difference, but learned
to use ether to get er running (even though I was often told ether would
hurt the engine)

I rebuilt the engine, took his advice, and now, almost 40 years later,
the saw still runs great. I haven't used it much lately, getting old,
but last I used it it still ran, and smoked like a champ...
I tend to use 40:1 instead of 50:1 so it does smoke - but it is close
to 50 years old and has never been apart. And other than the extreme
high compression kickback, it is NOT hard to start. I run ethanol free
premium, and even after sitting for 2 years with a full (sealed) tank,
it started on the second pull.

Also, as far as premium gas in a chainsaw, my guess is once you dump oil
in the gas, it doesn't matter much.
If 93 octane drops to 87, think where 87 goes!!!! The more oil, the
lower the octane - one advantage of the lighter mixes.



I remember when "Leaded Regular" was 91 octane.
And i remember having to settle for something like 71 octane because
it was all I could get - at $1.65 a liter - back in '74 in Livingstone
Zambia. The old '49 beetle didn't care, but the 204 Peugeot wasn't
happy untill I cranked the timing back. You could drive the stage 3
Mini Moke into the shop with the key turned off after you got it
warm........

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 15:49:11 -0500, "EXT" wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:50:42 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

"Michael" wrote in message
...

I added premium unleaded to my gas can (plus oil) this time around for my
chainsaw. My chainsaw seemed to run a little hotter, which was helpful,
but
I wonder if this is not the best thing for the machine. Any thoughts?
Thanks.

The manual with my saw recommends a minimum of 89 octane... I use ethanol
free premium gas along with synthetic 2 cycle oil (STIHL HP Ultra) that
has
fuel stabilizers. In the past year or so one of the chain convenience
stores
started carrying ethanol free premium gas and they are adding store
locations steadily over time--I've got one 7/10ths of a mile from my house
now. I started using this mix in all my Stihl 2 stroke equipment (string
trimmer, hedge clipper, chainsaw), and the gas in my mower, and everything
runs better.

I would expect your saw to run cooler, and better, with the premium fuel
as
compared to say 87 octane based on my saw's manual:

"Use mid-grade unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 89 and no
more than 10% ethanol content."
"Fuel with a lower octane rating may increase engine temperatures. This,
in
turn, increases the risk of piston seizure and damage to the engine."

John
I run nothing but ethanol free premium gas in ALL of my small engine
equipment. For the small amount of fuel I put through them in a year,
the difference in cost is a non-issue, particularly considering the
possible costs of the alternatives. A screwed up carb or a scuffed
piston or siezed engine is too costly to consider trying to save the
7 cents a liter or whatever.

I do the same. I have a 4 cycle mini-rototiller with a Honda mini engine. It
has been a problem from new, had it serviced and not much better. It was
hard to start and would stall after running a few minutes, and then only run
a minute or so after starting hot. This was with regular 87 gas. I also have
a Honda weed wacker with a mini 4 stroke engine that runs fine with regular
87 fuel.

Switched all my small engines to Shell premium, they run great and even the
difficult mini-rototiller Honda now runs properly with only a change of fuel
to premium.

The added cost of premium is insignificant compared to frequent servicing
required when they don't run properly. By the way, I have a Honda
self-propelled walk behind mower that is now over 25 years old and has never
needed service other than oil changes. It starts on the first pull.
Those things are sensitive, and with no carb adjustment available
they run just enough too lean on Hooch that they hardly run at all..

wrote:


Doesn't need ether - it USUALLY starts on the first or second pull.
But if it decides to balk instead, it snaps back with fury!!!!. I
won't start it on a ladder or in a tree. Too dangerous if it "gets
angry"

Holy Cow! I own some really good chainsaws - both are Stihls, and neither
will start on the first or second pull unless you've been using them for a
while. Cold - they're both good for at least 4 pulls before they cough, and
then a couple more after you back the choke off. In fact, in my 62 years,
with at least 45 of those holding on to a chainsaw, I've never owned or used
a saw that would start cold on one or two pulls. I put up 5 full chords of
firewood every year, and I'm no novice to chainsaw use, nor even a backyard
user. You've either got some good mojo going on up there, or I think
there's something you're not telling us.

--

-Mike-

wrote:

The day of the gasoline consumer saw is likely coming close to an end
with new electric saw technology advancing very quickly.

Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out there today,
or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless you're talking about
sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.

--

-Mike-

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:20:24 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Michael wrote:

I added premium unleaded to my gas can (plus oil) this time around
for my chainsaw. My chainsaw seemed to run a little hotter, which
was helpful, but I wonder if this is not the best thing for the
machine. Any thoughts? Thanks.

I use only ethanol free gas for all of my small engines and my farm
tractor. Around here the only ethanol free gas you can get is
Premium. I've never noticed any difference in how hot my engines
run on it, and I have two Stihl chainsaws that I use the stuff in.
The place where I get my saws serviced strongly recommends only
using ethanol free fuel in them, which by definition, means premium
gas. I've not heard of any ramifications from using the stuff.

Using higher octane than required won't hurt anything except your
wallet.

Indeed - but using that ethanol crap will hurt yer pocketbook even more.
Ask me how I'd know - have you priced the newer fuel lines that are
impervious to ethanol? Of course you never really come to understand these
costs until that day you go out to use the machine and it's pouring fuel all
over itself through the deteriorated lines. It's almost highway robbery!
Don't even get me going on trying to rebuild carbs on small tools like
string trimmers...

--

-Mike-

On 12/28/15 8:42 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:20:24 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Michael wrote:

I added premium unleaded to my gas can (plus oil) this time around
for my chainsaw. My chainsaw seemed to run a little hotter, which
was helpful, but I wonder if this is not the best thing for the
machine. Any thoughts? Thanks.

I use only ethanol free gas for all of my small engines and my farm
tractor. Around here the only ethanol free gas you can get is
Premium. I've never noticed any difference in how hot my engines
run on it, and I have two Stihl chainsaws that I use the stuff in.
The place where I get my saws serviced strongly recommends only
using ethanol free fuel in them, which by definition, means premium
gas. I've not heard of any ramifications from using the stuff.

Using higher octane than required won't hurt anything except your
wallet.

Indeed - but using that ethanol crap will hurt yer pocketbook even more.
Ask me how I'd know - have you priced the newer fuel lines that are
impervious to ethanol? Of course you never really come to understand these
costs until that day you go out to use the machine and it's pouring fuel all
over itself through the deteriorated lines. It's almost highway robbery!
Don't even get me going on trying to rebuild carbs on small tools like
string trimmers...


I have a flex fuel and I refuse to use the E-85 stuff. Sure, it won't
do any damage to my vehicle but why would I want to get 30% less millage
and pay almost the same price as gas?

It ****es me off that the corn ethanol is mandated by the government to
subsidize their failed corn farmer policies. We're paying for it with
our tax dollars, yet it still costs almost as much as regular gasoline.
So why the #U@& would I pay as much for it as gas and get 30% lower
millage. If I'm subsidizing it, it should be much cheaper.

Also, how the h3!! does it fluctuate perfectly in sync with gasoline
prices when it only contains 15% gas? When gas is 2 bucks a gallon,
E-85 is around 2 bucks. When gas is 4 bucks a gallon, E-85 is around 4
bucks when there's no fluctuation in the ethanol supply and the price is
controlled. Who's doing that math? What a rip-off.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

wrote:

The day of the gasoline consumer saw is likely coming close to an end
with new electric saw technology advancing very quickly.

Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out there
today, or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless you're
talking about sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.

Things have evolved quite a bit... Stihl has some electric saws that would
serve a homeowner well... and one that is marketed to professionals that
draws 15 amps. I've seen electric Sithl saws used indoors along with
electric powered bandsaw mills.

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...r-saws/mse170/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...aws/mse210cbq/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...saws/mse250cq/

They've got a battery powered saw too which would probably serve a
homeowner's occasional needs (not useful to me though!).

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...aws/msa160cbq/

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...



Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out there
today, or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless you're
talking about sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.

Things have evolved quite a bit... Stihl has some electric saws that
would serve a homeowner well... and one that is marketed to
professionals that draws 15 amps. I've seen electric Sithl saws used
indoors along with electric powered bandsaw mills.

Electric chainsaws have definitelty been around for a while now, but my
point was the real usefulness of these saws - not the availability of them.
As I said - unless you're looking to cut up a small limb a coupld of times a
year, they are not practical.

I live in a log home, so I own an electric chainsaw (not one of my Stihls) -
saves on the fumes, etc. (When you remodel; a log home, a chainsaw is your
tool of choice). That kind of use though is not what 99% of people think
about when they thinki about chainsaw use.



--

-Mike-

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 21:27:53 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:


Doesn't need ether - it USUALLY starts on the first or second pull.
But if it decides to balk instead, it snaps back with fury!!!!. I
won't start it on a ladder or in a tree. Too dangerous if it "gets
angry"

Holy Cow! I own some really good chainsaws - both are Stihls, and neither
will start on the first or second pull unless you've been using them for a
while. Cold - they're both good for at least 4 pulls before they cough, and
then a couple more after you back the choke off. In fact, in my 62 years,
with at least 45 of those holding on to a chainsaw, I've never owned or used
a saw that would start cold on one or two pulls. I put up 5 full chords of
firewood every year, and I'm no novice to chainsaw use, nor even a backyard
user. You've either got some good mojo going on up there, or I think
there's something you're not telling us.


OK - when I get the saw out I pull it through once or twice with the
choke on, and the ignition off so it won't tear my arm off - then turn
on the ignition and give it a couple good sharp pulls - Usually
running on the second pull with the ignition on.. Usually barks at me
on the first "powered on" pull. - knock the choke in one notch and
pull again. It either starts or tears the rope out of my hand. I don;t
know if the saw is stock or not - I've only owned it for about 25
years.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 21:33:02 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:

The day of the gasoline consumer saw is likely coming close to an end
with new electric saw technology advancing very quickly.

Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out there today,
or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless you're talking about
sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.
I took down a complete cherry tree except for the bottom 4 feet of
trunk with a 10 inch electric on a pole. Line powered - not battery -
in less ths 3 hours. The tree was higher than my 2 story house. I
used the electric pole saw because there was no way I was taking the
remington up into the tree. I limbed it from a 12 foot stepladder with
the pole saw completely extended.

After I had it down to the 4 or 5 foot stump I pulled out the
remington, the noticed there was a tree service truck just finishing
up down the street so I asked them how much to finish the stump and
chew up all the branches so I didn't need to haul it to the dump.
Less than an hour later there was nothing left but some leaves and
twigs. (and the stump chunks I had other plans for)

On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 21:42:07 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:20:24 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Michael wrote:

I added premium unleaded to my gas can (plus oil) this time around
for my chainsaw. My chainsaw seemed to run a little hotter, which
was helpful, but I wonder if this is not the best thing for the
machine. Any thoughts? Thanks.

I use only ethanol free gas for all of my small engines and my farm
tractor. Around here the only ethanol free gas you can get is
Premium. I've never noticed any difference in how hot my engines
run on it, and I have two Stihl chainsaws that I use the stuff in.
The place where I get my saws serviced strongly recommends only
using ethanol free fuel in them, which by definition, means premium
gas. I've not heard of any ramifications from using the stuff.

Using higher octane than required won't hurt anything except your
wallet.

Indeed - but using that ethanol crap will hurt yer pocketbook even more.
Ask me how I'd know - have you priced the newer fuel lines that are
impervious to ethanol? Of course you never really come to understand these
costs until that day you go out to use the machine and it's pouring fuel all
over itself through the deteriorated lines. It's almost highway robbery!
Don't even get me going on trying to rebuild carbs on small tools like
string trimmers...
I was shocked when I went to buy some Tygon fuel line.. The local
small engine shop wanted over 4 bucks for a foot.
It's about 2 bucks at Aircraft Spruce

In article ,
says...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

wrote:

The day of the gasoline consumer saw is likely coming close to an end
with new electric saw technology advancing very quickly.

Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out there
today, or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless you're
talking about sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.

Things have evolved quite a bit... Stihl has some electric saws that would
serve a homeowner well... and one that is marketed to professionals that
draws 15 amps. I've seen electric Sithl saws used indoors along with
electric powered bandsaw mills.

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...r-saws/mse170/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...aws/mse210cbq/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...saws/mse250cq/

They've got a battery powered saw too which would probably serve a
homeowner's occasional needs (not useful to me though!).

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...aws/msa160cbq/

My plug-in from Sears handls considerably more than "a 1 inch branch".

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 21:27:53 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


Holy Cow! I own some really good chainsaws - both are Stihls, and
neither will start on the first or second pull unless you've been
using them for a while. Cold - they're both good for at least 4
pulls before they cough, and then a couple more after you back the
choke off. In fact, in my 62 years, with at least 45 of those
holding on to a chainsaw, I've never owned or used a saw that would
start cold on one or two pulls. I put up 5 full chords of firewood
every year, and I'm no novice to chainsaw use, nor even a backyard
user. You've either got some good mojo going on up there, or I
think there's something you're not telling us.


OK - when I get the saw out I pull it through once or twice with the
choke on, and the ignition off so it won't tear my arm off - then turn
on the ignition and give it a couple good sharp pulls - Usually
running on the second pull with the ignition on.. Usually barks at me
on the first "powered on" pull. - knock the choke in one notch and
pull again. It either starts or tears the rope out of my hand. I don;t
know if the saw is stock or not - I've only owned it for about 25
years.

Ahhh-So... That makes more sense. Pulling it over those couple of times on
full choke is the same thing as if you had the ignition on. More like the
way my saws behave. Stone cold, my big saw usually takes 3 or 4 pulls on
full choke before it coughs, then starts on one or two more pulls with the
choke set back to half. The little saw generally starts with about the same
amount of pulls - maybe a pull less.

As an aside, the saw I had prior to buying my 361 was an 034AV (Stihl). I
owned it for twenty years or more and it was a great saw - never let me
down. But - all of its life it was a cold blooded saw - right from day one.
Seemed to pull it forever to get it started cold. Carb was adjusted
correctly, good spark plug, etc - but.. it got you warmed up for a day of
firewood just in the process of starting it. One day it would not start. I
knew that could be fixed, but I used it as my excuse to buy a new saw.
Bought my 361 and had the guys at the shop go through the 034, which my son
took posession of when they were done. If I remember correctly, they put a
carb on it - or maybe they rebuilt the carb, not sure. Once my son got it,
that thing started like it never had before - sometimes easier than my new
saw. Still running strong for him now, and he puts up about the same amount
of firewood as I do every year.

--

-Mike-

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 21:33:02 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:

The day of the gasoline consumer saw is likely coming close to an
end with new electric saw technology advancing very quickly.

Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out
there today, or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless
you're talking about sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.
I took down a complete cherry tree except for the bottom 4 feet of
trunk with a 10 inch electric on a pole. Line powered - not battery -
in less ths 3 hours. The tree was higher than my 2 story house. I
used the electric pole saw because there was no way I was taking the
remington up into the tree. I limbed it from a 12 foot stepladder with
the pole saw completely extended.


I don't doubt that, but it's more of a one-off story. You couldn't use that
saw routinely like you use your Remington.

--

-Mike-

wrote:

I was shocked when I went to buy some Tygon fuel line.. The local
small engine shop wanted over 4 bucks for a foot.
It's about 2 bucks at Aircraft Spruce

I've paid upwards of $8 per foot locally when I was in a pinch. Man...

--

-Mike-

J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

wrote:

The day of the gasoline consumer saw is likely coming close to an
end with new electric saw technology advancing very quickly.

Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out
there today, or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless
you're talking about sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a
year.

Things have evolved quite a bit... Stihl has some electric saws that
would serve a homeowner well... and one that is marketed to
professionals that draws 15 amps. I've seen electric Sithl saws
used indoors along with electric powered bandsaw mills.

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...r-saws/mse170/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...aws/mse210cbq/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...saws/mse250cq/

They've got a battery powered saw too which would probably serve a
homeowner's occasional needs (not useful to me though!).

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...aws/msa160cbq/

My plug-in from Sears handls considerably more than "a 1 inch branch".

No doubt, but that class of saw is not intended to do the work of a gasoline
powered saw, which is the only comment I was trying to make in response to
John's comment.

--

-Mike-

wrote in news:jas28blrb27snvfj6g8q5ujft8c9ugnf9c@
4ax.com:


There is no such thing as an "octane" rating of over 100. Over 100 it
is an "aki" or antiknock index..

Antiknock Index and Octane Rating are the same thing. You're
trying to sound intelligent there, but you're shooting
yourself in the foot...

Then why is ethanol added to regular gas at 10% and not added to
premium (in very many cases)???

It usually is added to premium in the US. I don't know
why Canada is different, but I suspect it's due to tax
policy.

In the US, ethanol is used because:

a) it's an effective octane booster
b) it's cheap compared to the alternatives
c) the energy act of 2007 provides Federal incentives
d) it does not have the legal liabilities of MBTE

Incidently, ethanol isn't "added to gas at 10%". The amount
used varies, from 5% to 10%, depending on the octane rating
desired.

John

John McCoy wrote:

wrote in news:jas28blrb27snvfj6g8q5ujft8c9ugnf9c@
4ax.com:


There is no such thing as an "octane" rating of over 100. Over 100 it
is an "aki" or antiknock index..

Antiknock Index and Octane Rating are the same thing. You're
trying to sound intelligent there, but you're shooting
yourself in the foot...

Then why is ethanol added to regular gas at 10% and not added to
premium (in very many cases)???

It usually is added to premium in the US. I don't know
why Canada is different, but I suspect it's due to tax
policy.

In the US, ethanol is used because:

a) it's an effective octane booster
b) it's cheap compared to the alternatives
c) the energy act of 2007 provides Federal incentives
d) it does not have the legal liabilities of MBTE

e) intense pressure exerted by the Corn Ethanol Lobby

http://www.taxpayer.net/library/arti...nol-lobby-2015
http://thefederalist.com/2015/10/21/...hurts-america/
https://www.organicconsumers.org/new...ution-peak-oil

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Actually Shell advertizes Nitrogen, V-power Nitro+ Premium, for better
cleaning only in the Premium.

But typically most all better brand fuels have similar additives in
all grades.

I'm inclined to think that "nitrogen enriched" stuff is all
just marketting blather.

If you want my opinion, the best gasoline additive is Chevron's
Techron. But I don't think there's much difference between
any of the top brands.

Well if it was advertized alcohol free they would certainly catch a
bunch of flack from the tree huggers.

Down here their pumps only claim "May" have up to 10% alcohol.

Same here - I think that's a legal requirement, and is the
same wording everywhere in the US.

Next time I'm in Texas I'll have to look at the pumps and see
if the premium is marked different (last time I got gas in TX
was at the Buck-ees north of Houston on US290, and I was so
overwhelmed at the size of it - must have been 100 pumps - I
didn't pay attention to that sort of detail).

John

-MIKE- wrote in :

Also, how the h3!! does it fluctuate perfectly in sync with gasoline
prices when it only contains 15% gas? When gas is 2 bucks a gallon,
E-85 is around 2 bucks. When gas is 4 bucks a gallon, E-85 is around
4 bucks when there's no fluctuation in the ethanol supply and the
price is controlled. Who's doing that math? What a rip-off.

Some of that is profiteering, but a big part of it is that
corn ethanol requires a fair bit of fuel to make, and it
can't be stored all that long, so the cost of making it
tracks the cost of fuel fairly well.

In Brazil, where ethanol comes from sugar cane, it takes
much less energy to make it, and almost all comes from
burning bagasse rather than other fuels.

John

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:28:08 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in news:jas28blrb27snvfj6g8q5ujft8c9ugnf9c@
4ax.com:


There is no such thing as an "octane" rating of over 100. Over 100 it
is an "aki" or antiknock index..

Antiknock Index and Octane Rating are the same thing. You're
trying to sound intelligent there, but you're shooting
yourself in the foot...
t octane only goes to 100 because you can NOT have
aoiso-octane/heptane mixture more than 100% iso-octane.Check your
facts. Anything over 100 is AKI
Then why is ethanol added to regular gas at 10% and not added to
premium (in very many cases)???

It usually is added to premium in the US. I don't know
why Canada is different, but I suspect it's due to tax
policy.

It's because if you have to sell a certain amount of ethanol, put it
where you will sell it fastest.



In the US, ethanol is used because:

a) it's an effective octane booster
b) it's cheap compared to the alternatives
c) the energy act of 2007 provides Federal incentives
d) it does not have the legal liabilities of MBTE

Incidently, ethanol isn't "added to gas at 10%". The amount
used varies, from 5% to 10%, depending on the octane rating
desired.


Mabee in the US of A, but not here in Canada. Ethanol is used as an
oxygenator up here. The extra octane is just a "bonus" if you can call
anything that reduces the energy output of a fuel a "bonus"

Up here it is "may contain up to 10% ethanol by volume"
John

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:58:30 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
m:

Actually Shell advertizes Nitrogen, V-power Nitro+ Premium, for better
cleaning only in the Premium.

But typically most all better brand fuels have similar additives in
all grades.

I'm inclined to think that "nitrogen enriched" stuff is all
just marketting blather.

If you want my opinion, the best gasoline additive is Chevron's
Techron. But I don't think there's much difference between
any of the top brands.

Techron is good, but the "nitrogen enriched" is a LITTLE more than
advertizing blather. There is a big difference between run-of-the
-mill gasoline and third tier.

Well if it was advertized alcohol free they would certainly catch a
bunch of flack from the tree huggers.

Down here their pumps only claim "May" have up to 10% alcohol.

Same here - I think that's a legal requirement, and is the
same wording everywhere in the US.

Next time I'm in Texas I'll have to look at the pumps and see
if the premium is marked different (last time I got gas in TX
was at the Buck-ees north of Houston on US290, and I was so
overwhelmed at the size of it - must have been 100 pumps - I
didn't pay attention to that sort of detail).

John

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:00:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 21:33:02 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:

The day of the gasoline consumer saw is likely coming close to an
end with new electric saw technology advancing very quickly.

Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out
there today, or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless
you're talking about sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.
I took down a complete cherry tree except for the bottom 4 feet of
trunk with a 10 inch electric on a pole. Line powered - not battery -
in less ths 3 hours. The tree was higher than my 2 story house. I
used the electric pole saw because there was no way I was taking the
remington up into the tree. I limbed it from a 12 foot stepladder with
the pole saw completely extended.


I don't doubt that, but it's more of a one-off story. You couldn't use that
saw routinely like you use your Remington.
No, but some of the new 40 volt lithium ion saws will do anything my
old Partner will do except gas me out and burn my finger if I get my
hand too close to the muffler. The remington has a bit more "cajones"
than the big partner.

wrote:


No, but some of the new 40 volt lithium ion saws will do anything my
old Partner will do except gas me out and burn my finger if I get my
hand too close to the muffler. The remington has a bit more "cajones"
than the big partner.

Sorry, but I'm really not familair with either the Remington or the Partner.
What I will say is that no 40v saw will keep up with my Stihl 361 out in the
woods for the day of puttin up firewood. Show me one that will drive a 25"
bar, and cut all day long, as fast as mine will hog through a 36" maple.
Going back to what my original point was - I was responding to John's claim
that the gasoline saw was on its way out in deference to electric models. I
simply disagree with this asseriton and think it only comes from a guy that
does not use a chainsaw.

--

-Mike-

On 12/29/2015 1:55 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
John McCoy wrote:

wrote in news:jas28blrb27snvfj6g8q5ujft8c9ugnf9c@
4ax.com:


There is no such thing as an "octane" rating of over 100. Over 100 it
is an "aki" or antiknock index..

Antiknock Index and Octane Rating are the same thing. You're
trying to sound intelligent there, but you're shooting
yourself in the foot...

Then why is ethanol added to regular gas at 10% and not added to
premium (in very many cases)???

It usually is added to premium in the US. I don't know
why Canada is different, but I suspect it's due to tax
policy.

In the US, ethanol is used because:

a) it's an effective octane booster
b) it's cheap compared to the alternatives
c) the energy act of 2007 provides Federal incentives
d) it does not have the legal liabilities of MBTE

e) intense pressure exerted by the Corn Ethanol Lobby

http://www.taxpayer.net/library/arti...nol-lobby-2015
http://thefederalist.com/2015/10/21/...hurts-america/
https://www.organicconsumers.org/new...ution-peak-oil


If you want to know why there is alcohol in fuel, follow the money.

On 12/29/2015 3:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:28:08 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in news:jas28blrb27snvfj6g8q5ujft8c9ugnf9c@
4ax.com:


There is no such thing as an "octane" rating of over 100. Over 100 it
is an "aki" or antiknock index..

Antiknock Index and Octane Rating are the same thing. You're
trying to sound intelligent there, but you're shooting
yourself in the foot...
t octane only goes to 100 because you can NOT have
aoiso-octane/heptane mixture more than 100% iso-octane.Check your
facts. Anything over 100 is AKI
Then why is ethanol added to regular gas at 10% and not added to
premium (in very many cases)???

It usually is added to premium in the US. I don't know
why Canada is different, but I suspect it's due to tax
policy.

It's because if you have to sell a certain amount of ethanol, put it
where you will sell it fastest.



In the US, ethanol is used because:

a) it's an effective octane booster
b) it's cheap compared to the alternatives
c) the energy act of 2007 provides Federal incentives
d) it does not have the legal liabilities of MBTE

Incidently, ethanol isn't "added to gas at 10%". The amount
used varies, from 5% to 10%, depending on the octane rating
desired.


Mabee in the US of A, but not here in Canada. Ethanol is used as an
oxygenator up here. The extra octane is just a "bonus" if you can call
anything that reduces the energy output of a fuel a "bonus"

Up here it is "may contain up to 10% ethanol by volume"
John


Exactly! Typically alcohol reduces gas mileage. My Tundra which was
designed to run or regular gets better gas mileage with premium from the
same gasoline station. Now that the price difference out weighs the gas
mileage benefits I have cut back from using premium and over all my gas
mileage has suffered.
Now there are other reasons that I get better gas mileage from premium
but most likely the lack of alcohol is just one of them.

On 12/29/2015 1:58 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Actually Shell advertizes Nitrogen, V-power Nitro+ Premium, for better
cleaning only in the Premium.

But typically most all better brand fuels have similar additives in
all grades.

I'm inclined to think that "nitrogen enriched" stuff is all
just marketting blather.

That very well may be however it is only in the Premium grade Shell
gasoline. Even their web site indicates this.



If you want my opinion, the best gasoline additive is Chevron's
Techron. But I don't think there's much difference between
any of the top brands.


Techron is not bad at all. I was selling Techron before it was added to
gasoline. I learned about Techron through General Motors, they were
selling it as a fuel additive to combat the injector contamination
issues that they were having in the 80's. And it worked well. It came
in a 16 or 32 oz bottle IIRC. It was only later on that Chevron began
marketing it with their gasoline in Texas.


Well if it was advertized alcohol free they would certainly catch a
bunch of flack from the tree huggers.

Down here their pumps only claim "May" have up to 10% alcohol.

Same here - I think that's a legal requirement, and is the
same wording everywhere in the US.

Absolutely a requirement when they don't know which fuel you are going
to choose. It is a blanket statement that covers all the bases.
Mid grade is blended at the station pump.


Next time I'm in Texas I'll have to look at the pumps and see
if the premium is marked different (last time I got gas in TX
was at the Buck-ees north of Houston on US290, and I was so
overwhelmed at the size of it - must have been 100 pumps - I
didn't pay attention to that sort of detail).

John

On 12/29/2015 3:12 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:58:30 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Actually Shell advertizes Nitrogen, V-power Nitro+ Premium, for better
cleaning only in the Premium.

But typically most all better brand fuels have similar additives in
all grades.

I'm inclined to think that "nitrogen enriched" stuff is all
just marketting blather.

If you want my opinion, the best gasoline additive is Chevron's
Techron. But I don't think there's much difference between
any of the top brands.

Techron is good, but the "nitrogen enriched" is a LITTLE more than
advertizing blather. There is a big difference between run-of-the
-mill gasoline and third tier.

This is true but to be clear Tier 1 is not strictly the premium fuel,
rather the brand. Exxon has always had detergents and additives but
only relatively recently has qualified as a Tier 1 provider.

The Top Tier standards must apply to all grades of gasoline that a
company sells, whether it is economy (low-octane) or premium
(high-octane).[2] However, premium gasolines may contain even higher
levels of detergent additives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Ti...rgent_Gasoline

On 12/29/2015 4:29 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

wrote:

The day of the gasoline consumer saw is likely coming close to an end
with new electric saw technology advancing very quickly.

Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out there
today, or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless you're
talking about sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.

Things have evolved quite a bit... Stihl has some electric saws that would
serve a homeowner well... and one that is marketed to professionals that
draws 15 amps. I've seen electric Sithl saws used indoors along with
electric powered bandsaw mills.

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...r-saws/mse170/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...aws/mse210cbq/
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...saws/mse250cq/

They've got a battery powered saw too which would probably serve a
homeowner's occasional needs (not useful to me though!).

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/cha...aws/msa160cbq/

My plug-in from Sears handls considerably more than "a 1 inch branch".


I had gas and then electric. I can/could saw 6~8" diameter oak limbs
with no hesitation. Granted that because the electric simply runs
slower than the gas does at full throttle the gas cut faster. But over
all in the past 20 or so years the electric has had much less down time
than the gas did, so in the time spent futzing with the gas saw,
including mixing and filling with gas, the electric required less of MY
time , which IMHO is all that counts. Gas is great when that is all
that will work but with electricity available I will stick with an
electric for any trimming including the use of my electric recip saw for
4" and under branches.

On 12/28/2015 8:58 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/28/15 8:42 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:20:24 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Michael wrote:

I added premium unleaded to my gas can (plus oil) this time around
for my chainsaw. My chainsaw seemed to run a little hotter, which
was helpful, but I wonder if this is not the best thing for the
machine. Any thoughts? Thanks.

I use only ethanol free gas for all of my small engines and my farm
tractor. Around here the only ethanol free gas you can get is
Premium. I've never noticed any difference in how hot my engines
run on it, and I have two Stihl chainsaws that I use the stuff in.
The place where I get my saws serviced strongly recommends only
using ethanol free fuel in them, which by definition, means premium
gas. I've not heard of any ramifications from using the stuff.

Using higher octane than required won't hurt anything except your
wallet.

Indeed - but using that ethanol crap will hurt yer pocketbook even more.
Ask me how I'd know - have you priced the newer fuel lines that are
impervious to ethanol? Of course you never really come to understand
these
costs until that day you go out to use the machine and it's pouring
fuel all
over itself through the deteriorated lines. It's almost highway robbery!
Don't even get me going on trying to rebuild carbs on small tools like
string trimmers...


I have a flex fuel and I refuse to use the E-85 stuff. Sure, it won't
do any damage to my vehicle but why would I want to get 30% less millage
and pay almost the same price as gas?

It ****es me off that the corn ethanol is mandated by the government to
subsidize their failed corn farmer policies. We're paying for it with
our tax dollars, yet it still costs almost as much as regular gasoline.
So why the #U@& would I pay as much for it as gas and get 30% lower
millage. If I'm subsidizing it, it should be much cheaper.

Also, how the h3!! does it fluctuate perfectly in sync with gasoline
prices when it only contains 15% gas? When gas is 2 bucks a gallon,
E-85 is around 2 bucks. When gas is 4 bucks a gallon, E-85 is around 4
bucks when there's no fluctuation in the ethanol supply and the price is
controlled. Who's doing that math? What a rip-off.



It is the old term, "what the market will bear". Same goes for the
industry as a whole.

Ten years ago gasoline was at record highs. Prices were sold as supply
and demand. There was no shortage, just a lack of competition.
So again, "what the market would bear".

In recent years there has been more competition and even more supply and
up until relatively recently the much lower prices at the pump was
profitable for all producers. Supply and demand could finally be the
reason for prices.

NOW there is a huge supply with basically the same demand. More
competition has ultimately driven prices down at the pumps, not the fact
that there is more supply.

BUT some HUGE producers are continuing to over produce, and at a loss,
to drive the smaller competitors out of business. Then there will be
less competition and prices will absolutely go back up to "what the
market will bear".

There is a reason the Shell, Chevron, Exxon, Phillips, Conoco, Texaco,
and "name your major brand" have joined forces, to eliminate half the
competition.

On 12/28/2015 9:46 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...



Doubt that greatly! There's no viable electric alternative out there
today, or even on the horizon, even for the consumer - unless you're
talking about sawing up a 1" branch two or three times a year.

Things have evolved quite a bit... Stihl has some electric saws that
would serve a homeowner well... and one that is marketed to
professionals that draws 15 amps. I've seen electric Sithl saws used
indoors along with electric powered bandsaw mills.

Electric chainsaws have definitelty been around for a while now, but my
point was the real usefulness of these saws - not the availability of them.
As I said - unless you're looking to cut up a small limb a coupld of times a
year, they are not practical.

I think you points would make more sense if you pointed out that gas
works most anywhere and would probably last longer with day to day usage.

The electric that I have cuts much more than "a small limb a couple of
times a year".

I would be willing to bet that if you and I cut down a small tree with
say a 10 diameter trunk, that you probably would not finish far ahead of
me. Many more larger trees and I give you the nod.

I think you vastly under estimate what an electric can do if you believe
that they are only good for a small limb a couple of times a
year. I have owned both and in my yard I would choose electric over gas
if both were sitting on my work bench and ready to go.

Out in the woods felling trees all day long the gas would be an obvious
choice.

I suppose it is a lot like Festool of Fein. Unless you are making money
or specifically have to have the tool it is hard to actually justify the
expense. Then some simply want more than they actually need, and that is
OK too.








I live in a log home, so I own an electric chainsaw (not one of my Stihls) -
saves on the fumes, etc. (When you remodel; a log home, a chainsaw is your
tool of choice). That kind of use though is not what 99% of people think
about when they thinki about chainsaw use.

wrote in news:sft58b93crkcqiru2mqeh5snjegtsqv74s@
4ax.com:

Antiknock Index and Octane Rating are the same thing. You're
trying to sound intelligent there, but you're shooting
yourself in the foot...

t octane only goes to 100 because you can NOT have
aoiso-octane/heptane mixture more than 100% iso-octane.Check your
facts. Anything over 100 is AKI

You are confused here.

There are several methods of calculating octane rating,
the two most common being the "research method" and the
"motor method". They work the same way, you run the
fuel being tested in a special motor which has a
variable compression ratio, and compare the point
where preignition starts to the point where it starts
with a particular isomer of heptane (defined as zero
octane rating) and a particular isomer of octane
(defined as 100 octane rating). It's entirely possible
for a fuel to accomdate a higher compression ratio
than the octane standard, in which case it's octane
rating is proportionally greater than 100 (conceptually
it's also possible for a fuel to not reach the compression
ratio of the heptane standard, in which case it would
have an octane rating less than zero).

Now, in the UK and Europe, they use the research method
exclusively. Their octane ratings are always RON (and
they have no such thing as an antiknock index). In
North America they take the average of the research
method and the motor method, and call the result the
"pump octane rating". You'll see this on gas pumps:
(R + M)/2. (there are exceptions in the US - racing
fuel is often specified by RON, and av-gas is specified
by MON).

For simplicity, rather than say "the average of the
research method and the motor method", (R + M)/2 has
also come to be known as the antiknock index, or AKI.
It's just another term for octane rating.

John

On Wed, 30 Dec 2015 21:56:29 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

wrote in news:sft58b93crkcqiru2mqeh5snjegtsqv74s@
4ax.com:

Antiknock Index and Octane Rating are the same thing. You're
trying to sound intelligent there, but you're shooting
yourself in the foot...

t octane only goes to 100 because you can NOT have
aoiso-octane/heptane mixture more than 100% iso-octane.Check your
facts. Anything over 100 is AKI

You are confused here.

There are several methods of calculating octane rating,
the two most common being the "research method" and the
"motor method". They work the same way, you run the
fuel being tested in a special motor which has a
variable compression ratio, and compare the point
where preignition starts to the point where it starts
with a particular isomer of heptane (defined as zero
octane rating) and a particular isomer of octane
(defined as 100 octane rating). It's entirely possible
for a fuel to accomdate a higher compression ratio
than the octane standard, in which case it's octane
rating is proportionally greater than 100 (conceptually
it's also possible for a fuel to not reach the compression
ratio of the heptane standard, in which case it would
have an octane rating less than zero).

Now, in the UK and Europe, they use the research method
exclusively. Their octane ratings are always RON (and
they have no such thing as an antiknock index). In
North America they take the average of the research
method and the motor method, and call the result the
"pump octane rating". You'll see this on gas pumps:
(R + M)/2. (there are exceptions in the US - racing
fuel is often specified by RON, and av-gas is specified
by MON).

For simplicity, rather than say "the average of the
research method and the motor method", (R + M)/2 has
also come to be known as the antiknock index, or AKI.
It's just another term for octane rating.

John
I understand how octane is determined - and since there is no such
thing as more than 100% iso-octane to put in the test mix, 100 octane
is as high, technically, as an "octane rating" can go. From 100 on up
it is "technically" an Anti Knock Index. AKI can also be used below
100.RM/2 is used for automotive motor fuel in North America - but not
for Aviation Gas.

I remember this being taght by the petroleum engineers from Texaco,
Imperial and Shell when I worked for garages that sold those 3 brands
of fuel "way back in the day" between 1968 and 1983. They said
although often refered to as the "octane rating" anything over 100 is
technically the AntiKnock Index, which in Noth America is generally
referred to as "road octane" or "R+M/2" or "pump octane" while
elsewhere in the world it is generally ROM - straight "research
octane"

Octane sensitivity has to do with the difference between research and
motor octanes.
Motor Octane is also sometimes (mistakenly) referred to as "rich"
octane and is the measure of anti-knock qualities under sustained high
load, (accelleration at low RPM) while research octane is sometimes
referred to as "lean" octane - the measure of antiknock qualities
under typical mild driving.(high rpm low load)
They call it sensitivity because it indicates hpw sensitive the fuel
is to varying conditions of tempwrature and load.. Sensitivity of most
automotive gasoline in North America is generally about 10 points.

In europe recently the sensitivity has been higher, (20 points and
more), meaning some fuels (under 105RON)do not meet the required 85?
minimum MON for European regulations.

Lean and Rich octane ratings are used to rate aviation fuel.. They are
similar to the RON and MON , in that rich mixtures are used under high
power settings, and lean under lower power settings. The "sensitivity"
of Avgas is generally closer to 30 points (100-130 for instance for
100LL regular avgas) Lean rating in AvGas is always lower than rich
rating, just as MON is always lower than RON in Mogas. It is a
combination of actual differences in the knock resistance of the fuel
and differences in the measurement protocol that contribute to tne
higher "sensitivity" of AvGas.

The AvGas "lean octane"number is not necessarilly the same as the RON
number would be for the same fuel, but it is close.

Leon wrote:


I think you vastly under estimate what an electric can do if you
believe that they are only good for a small limb a couple of times a
year. I have owned both and in my yard I would choose electric over
gas if both were sitting on my work bench and ready to go.


Turn of a phrase, and a matter of perspective I guess. I would consider
most of what you do in your yard to be small work a couple of times a year,
compared to putting up a season's worth of firewood. Remember - I do own an
electric chainsaw as well as my two gas saws, so I do appreciate what it can
do. With that said - it would in no way keep up with even the small gas saw
in cutting through something like a 10" limb.



--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

Leon wrote:


I think you vastly under estimate what an electric can do if you
believe that they are only good for a small limb a couple of times a
year. I have owned both and in my yard I would choose electric over
gas if both were sitting on my work bench and ready to go.


Turn of a phrase, and a matter of perspective I guess. I would consider
most of what you do in your yard to be small work a couple of times a year,
compared to putting up a season's worth of firewood. Remember - I do own
an electric chainsaw as well as my two gas saws, so I do appreciate what it
can do. With that said - it would in no way keep up with even the small
gas saw in cutting through something like a 10" limb.

This "capacity" thing is true of pretty much all of power tools...

I'm now debating whether I should buy a bigger chainsaw as I've got a couple
big trees to cut down and my 18" Stihl MS271 (about 3.5 hp) seems
inadequate. Both are about 36" in diameter at chest height, one an ash and
the other a maple. I'm looking at the Stihl MS461... about 6 hp and will
take much longer bars. It's not inexpensive but it would cost way less than
hiring a tree service to take down those two big trees and I'd have it for
other serious tree cutting. I took Game of Logging training, have done a
lot of studying, and have felled quite a number of trees so those big ones
look to be reasonable tasks to me... except for the capacity of my MS271
that is. I've taken down trees taller than those two but not as big in
diameter...

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:19:13 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

Leon wrote:


I think you vastly under estimate what an electric can do if you
believe that they are only good for a small limb a couple of times a
year. I have owned both and in my yard I would choose electric over
gas if both were sitting on my work bench and ready to go.


Turn of a phrase, and a matter of perspective I guess. I would consider
most of what you do in your yard to be small work a couple of times a year,
compared to putting up a season's worth of firewood. Remember - I do own
an electric chainsaw as well as my two gas saws, so I do appreciate what it
can do. With that said - it would in no way keep up with even the small
gas saw in cutting through something like a 10" limb.

This "capacity" thing is true of pretty much all of power tools...

I'm now debating whether I should buy a bigger chainsaw as I've got a couple
big trees to cut down and my 18" Stihl MS271 (about 3.5 hp) seems
inadequate. Both are about 36" in diameter at chest height, one an ash and
the other a maple. I'm looking at the Stihl MS461... about 6 hp and will
take much longer bars. It's not inexpensive but it would cost way less than
hiring a tree service to take down those two big trees and I'd have it for
other serious tree cutting. I took Game of Logging training, have done a
lot of studying, and have felled quite a number of trees so those big ones
look to be reasonable tasks to me... except for the capacity of my MS271
that is. I've taken down trees taller than those two but not as big in
diameter...
When the financials make buying a new toy an "investment", go for
it!!!

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:35:26 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:19:13 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

Leon wrote:


I think you vastly under estimate what an electric can do if you
believe that they are only good for a small limb a couple of times a
year. I have owned both and in my yard I would choose electric over
gas if both were sitting on my work bench and ready to go.


Turn of a phrase, and a matter of perspective I guess. I would consider
most of what you do in your yard to be small work a couple of times a year,
compared to putting up a season's worth of firewood. Remember - I do own
an electric chainsaw as well as my two gas saws, so I do appreciate what it
can do. With that said - it would in no way keep up with even the small
gas saw in cutting through something like a 10" limb.

This "capacity" thing is true of pretty much all of power tools...

I'm now debating whether I should buy a bigger chainsaw as I've got a couple
big trees to cut down and my 18" Stihl MS271 (about 3.5 hp) seems
inadequate. Both are about 36" in diameter at chest height, one an ash and
the other a maple. I'm looking at the Stihl MS461... about 6 hp and will
take much longer bars. It's not inexpensive but it would cost way less than
hiring a tree service to take down those two big trees and I'd have it for
other serious tree cutting. I took Game of Logging training, have done a
lot of studying, and have felled quite a number of trees so those big ones
look to be reasonable tasks to me... except for the capacity of my MS271
that is. I've taken down trees taller than those two but not as big in
diameter...
When the financials make buying a new toy an "investment", go for
it!!!

I'm rarely shy about buying a tool needed for a single job but this is
one place I'd strongly consider a rental.

"krw" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:35:26 -0500, wrote:

When the financials make buying a new toy an "investment", go for
it!!!

I'm rarely shy about buying a tool needed for a single job but this is
one place I'd strongly consider a rental.

I haven't ruled that out completely but I've had such poor experiences with
other large tool rentals that I'm reluctant to do so--the stuff had been
abused and suffered from a lack of maintenance.

Another issue is that I haven't found a local rental business that rents big
chain saws... most have saws the same size or smaller than what I own.

I hadn't mentioned it here previously but it occurred to me that if I got a
big chain saw I could also use it for an Alaskan Chainsaw Mill. I figure
that if I can reduce a log into pieces I can handle I can finish sawing it
on my 36" Crescent bandsaw. I think an MS 461 would fill that role pretty
well... The two big trees would be the first ones to go as they appear to be
sound. There are a bunch of other large ash available on neighboring
properties that I'm sure I could get for the asking as the Emerald Ash
Borers have attacked them too. Being in an area not accessible to a bandsaw
mill those trees would otherwise end up as firewood.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 20:20:31 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

"krw" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:35:26 -0500, wrote:

When the financials make buying a new toy an "investment", go for
it!!!

I'm rarely shy about buying a tool needed for a single job but this is
one place I'd strongly consider a rental.

I haven't ruled that out completely but I've had such poor experiences with
other large tool rentals that I'm reluctant to do so--the stuff had been
abused and suffered from a lack of maintenance.

I don't have all that much experience renting tools (I usually buy)
but when I have, they've always been top-o-the line tools. The
chainsaws and concrete saws (chain saw with cutoff wheel) have all
been Stilhs. Some have been rough aesthetically but functionally in
great shape.

Another issue is that I haven't found a local rental business that rents big
chain saws... most have saws the same size or smaller than what I own.

I hadn't mentioned it here previously but it occurred to me that if I got a
big chain saw I could also use it for an Alaskan Chainsaw Mill. I figure
that if I can reduce a log into pieces I can handle I can finish sawing it
on my 36" Crescent bandsaw. I think an MS 461 would fill that role pretty
well... The two big trees would be the first ones to go as they appear to be
sound. There are a bunch of other large ash available on neighboring
properties that I'm sure I could get for the asking as the Emerald Ash
Borers have attacked them too. Being in an area not accessible to a bandsaw
mill those trees would otherwise end up as firewood.

If it's more than a one-time use, it probably does make sense to buy.
A gas tool is a little different, IMO, though. I'd want to make sure I
had use for it several times a year (maintenance and all). I have a
gas power-washer that was probably a bad idea to buy. I don't use it
enough.

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 18:25:39 -0500, krw wrote:

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 15:35:26 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:19:13 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

Leon wrote:


I think you vastly under estimate what an electric can do if you
believe that they are only good for a small limb a couple of times a
year. I have owned both and in my yard I would choose electric over
gas if both were sitting on my work bench and ready to go.


Turn of a phrase, and a matter of perspective I guess. I would consider
most of what you do in your yard to be small work a couple of times a year,
compared to putting up a season's worth of firewood. Remember - I do own
an electric chainsaw as well as my two gas saws, so I do appreciate what it
can do. With that said - it would in no way keep up with even the small
gas saw in cutting through something like a 10" limb.

This "capacity" thing is true of pretty much all of power tools...

I'm now debating whether I should buy a bigger chainsaw as I've got a couple
big trees to cut down and my 18" Stihl MS271 (about 3.5 hp) seems
inadequate. Both are about 36" in diameter at chest height, one an ash and
the other a maple. I'm looking at the Stihl MS461... about 6 hp and will
take much longer bars. It's not inexpensive but it would cost way less than
hiring a tree service to take down those two big trees and I'd have it for
other serious tree cutting. I took Game of Logging training, have done a
lot of studying, and have felled quite a number of trees so those big ones
look to be reasonable tasks to me... except for the capacity of my MS271
that is. I've taken down trees taller than those two but not as big in
diameter...
When the financials make buying a new toy an "investment", go for
it!!!

I'm rarely shy about buying a tool needed for a single job but this is
one place I'd strongly consider a rental.
If you are a "chain saw user" the chances are pretty good you will
use the big saw again if you own it.

If you will never use it again, rent.
If you've been Jonesing for a bigger saw for a while but couldn't
justify the expense, now is the time.