Markem writes:


I've not take the time to check, but in the past, imported beer was in
12 ounce bottles sold in the US. Could have changed as I don't buy that
much beer, I do buy one from Canada and it is 12 ounces.

Stella is 11.2 Oz in the bottle.

Which is what one would expect from a Belgian beer.

On 4/16/2015 11:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 12:31 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
John McCoy wrote:

I suspect that's part of the reason my local HD replaced an
aisle of hinges, latches, and similar hardware with motor
oil and windshield wipers. Bigger packages, thus less labor
to keep stocked. (that, and random addle-headed thinking by
management - with an auto parts store on the other side of
the intersection, who's going to go to HD for auto parts?)


As bizarre as the reasoning seems - they really do that more in an
effort to
take your money while you are in the store, and not because bigger is
easier
to stock. I absolutely never heard anything like that in any management
meetings in retail. In fact - this is the only place I have ever heard
such
a thing. It just is not a real world, daily consideration. They look to
sell what people buy, and to have that on the aisles to capture your
money
while you're in the store. It's that simple and the other thoughts about
people, weights, etc. are just rubbish.


Same goes for chewing gum and candy that is sold at HD. If it is
something that the customer buys normally it saves the customer the
extra trip for that item.


THIS customer notices the crewing gum priced a dollar higher than
elsewhere and doesn't buy it there.

On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 1:22:32 PM UTC-4, Richard wrote:
On 4/16/2015 11:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 12:31 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
John McCoy wrote:

I suspect that's part of the reason my local HD replaced an
aisle of hinges, latches, and similar hardware with motor
oil and windshield wipers. Bigger packages, thus less labor
to keep stocked. (that, and random addle-headed thinking by
management - with an auto parts store on the other side of
the intersection, who's going to go to HD for auto parts?)


As bizarre as the reasoning seems - they really do that more in an
effort to
take your money while you are in the store, and not because bigger is
easier
to stock. I absolutely never heard anything like that in any management
meetings in retail. In fact - this is the only place I have ever heard
such
a thing. It just is not a real world, daily consideration. They look to
sell what people buy, and to have that on the aisles to capture your
money
while you're in the store. It's that simple and the other thoughts about
people, weights, etc. are just rubbish.


Same goes for chewing gum and candy that is sold at HD. If it is
something that the customer buys normally it saves the customer the
extra trip for that item.


THIS customer notices the crewing gum priced a dollar higher than
elsewhere and doesn't buy it there.

Is crewing gum what these guy chew? ;-)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...gatta_2010.png

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Since we are 285 posts into this thread, I'm lost. Are you talking
about the 40 lb bag of softener salt or the Harbor Freight Drill
Press that started this monster? ;-)

Just be glad nobody has wondered if 90# bags of cement are still 90#

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:55:51 +0000, Baxter wrote:

I wonder how many of the righteous right on this news group get
Social Security and Medicare while they castigate big government?

ME..ME. I do. But what does that have do do with anything? I
bought and paid for those.

Sure you did. If you paid the max into SS all your life and die
before you hit 80-something. Medicare? Fat chance. Compare what
you're getting and what you're paying, including supplement, against
what a private plan would cost you.

Try doing the arithmetic before you make wild claims like that.

As I said (relative to medicare), " Now, not so much, costs have just gotten
way out of hand". For social security, absolutely. I know because I DID do
the math.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

krw wrote:
On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 18:55:51 +0000 (UTC), Baxter
wrote:

"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 22:52:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I wonder how many of the righteous right on this news group get
Social Security and Medicare while they castigate big government?

ME..ME. I do. But what does that have do do with anything? I
bought and paid for those. Against my will though. If I'd had my
druthers, I'd rather have eschewed SS and taken care of myself; I
did anyway but could have done WAY better if I'd been able to use
the SS tax that the feds forced upon me.

Hindsight is 20/20. Foresight not so good.

Nonsense. Anyone with the most basic of math skills could see that it
was a loser, from day 1.

Right. Plus, assuming only a modest rate of return on the capital, one could
withdraw as much or more than SS doles out and leave the capital untouched
or minimally reduced. Enter the inheritance tax for all.

On 16/04/2015 10:40 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 7:26 PM, Richard wrote:
On 4/16/2015 6:39 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 4/16/2015 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:

You simply cannot reward low productivity. If the workers were worth
more the they would be paid more or they could move on.


ASSuming, of course, that there are other jobs to move on to?

Every year, 1000s and 1000s of people make their own jobs.


with 300 million people here, that's insignificant.

It would be much much higher if more wanted to make their own jobs. But
you have those wanting the government to step in and help out.
Any time the government helps out it encourages more to do less and for
poverty to go up.

And history tells us that if there is no government interference, big
companies and the wealthy rule and in fact poverty increases. Just look
at the conditions suffered by the blue-collar class during the 19th and
early 20th Centuries.
There has to be a balance!

--

On 4/17/2015 2:32 PM, graham wrote:
On 16/04/2015 10:40 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 7:26 PM, Richard wrote:
On 4/16/2015 6:39 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 4/16/2015 12:32 PM, Leon wrote:

You simply cannot reward low productivity. If the workers were worth
more the they would be paid more or they could move on.


ASSuming, of course, that there are other jobs to move on to?

Every year, 1000s and 1000s of people make their own jobs.


with 300 million people here, that's insignificant.

It would be much much higher if more wanted to make their own jobs. But
you have those wanting the government to step in and help out.
Any time the government helps out it encourages more to do less and for
poverty to go up.

And history tells us that if there is no government interference, big
companies and the wealthy rule and in fact poverty increases. Just look
at the conditions suffered by the blue-collar class during the 19th and
early 20th Centuries.
There has to be a balance!


Well I think you described the problem, government interference. No
doubt that government is necessary but government leaders and employees
are not qualified to make many of the decisions that they do. Elected
leaders do so to get votes. Make them accountable and you would see a
big change for the better.

"dadiOH" wrote in :

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Since we are 285 posts into this thread, I'm lost. Are you talking
about the 40 lb bag of softener salt or the Harbor Freight Drill
Press that started this monster? ;-)

Just be glad nobody has wondered if 90# bags of cement are still 90#


I used to see 80# bags everywhere, now 60# is more common. In this case,
it's a win for me, as even though the product is more expensive
(inevitable) it's much easier to lift 60# than 80#.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com writes:
"dadiOH" wrote in :

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Since we are 285 posts into this thread, I'm lost. Are you talking
about the 40 lb bag of softener salt or the Harbor Freight Drill
Press that started this monster? ;-)

Just be glad nobody has wondered if 90# bags of cement are still 90#


I used to see 80# bags everywhere, now 60# is more common. In this case,
it's a win for me, as even though the product is more expensive
(inevitable) it's much easier to lift 60# than 80#.

Many employers have a two-man rule for lifting heavy weights; usually
for over 50-60#. It may be that 60# bags are produced to make things
more efficient from a require human labor standpoint, rather than to
attempt to rip off the consumer.

Richard wrote:
On 4/16/2015 11:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 12:31 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
John McCoy wrote:

I suspect that's part of the reason my local HD replaced an
aisle of hinges, latches, and similar hardware with motor
oil and windshield wipers. Bigger packages, thus less labor
to keep stocked. (that, and random addle-headed thinking by
management - with an auto parts store on the other side of
the intersection, who's going to go to HD for auto parts?)


As bizarre as the reasoning seems - they really do that more in an
effort to
take your money while you are in the store, and not because bigger is
easier
to stock. I absolutely never heard anything like that in any management
meetings in retail. In fact - this is the only place I have ever heard
such
a thing. It just is not a real world, daily consideration. They look to
sell what people buy, and to have that on the aisles to capture your
money
while you're in the store. It's that simple and the other thoughts
about
people, weights, etc. are just rubbish.


Same goes for chewing gum and candy that is sold at HD. If it is
something that the customer buys normally it saves the customer the
extra trip for that item.


THIS customer notices the crewing gum priced a dollar higher than
elsewhere and doesn't buy it there.

Did you notice the 16 oz bottles of water just above for $1.59 each?

On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet people
thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be zero).


We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher in
NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

If some companies offered only minimum wage, no one would show up for
work. If they do, however, they must deem it fair as they do go to work.

On 4/17/2015 7:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 1:45:49 AM UTC-4, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Leon" wrote:

So how do you get the salt to the hand scoop?
-------------------------------------------------------------
A 2 wheeler will get the job done.

Lew

So how do you get the salt to the 2 wheeler?


You get the guy at the store to load it in your car, then you scoop it
out.

In the case of the dog food, train the dog to eat in the back of the
pickup until it gets down to a manageable weight.

On 4/17/2015 4:10 PM, Bill wrote:
Richard wrote:
On 4/16/2015 11:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 12:31 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
John McCoy wrote:

I suspect that's part of the reason my local HD replaced an
aisle of hinges, latches, and similar hardware with motor
oil and windshield wipers. Bigger packages, thus less labor
to keep stocked. (that, and random addle-headed thinking by
management - with an auto parts store on the other side of
the intersection, who's going to go to HD for auto parts?)


As bizarre as the reasoning seems - they really do that more in an
effort to
take your money while you are in the store, and not because bigger is
easier
to stock. I absolutely never heard anything like that in any management
meetings in retail. In fact - this is the only place I have ever heard
such
a thing. It just is not a real world, daily consideration. They look to
sell what people buy, and to have that on the aisles to capture your
money
while you're in the store. It's that simple and the other thoughts
about
people, weights, etc. are just rubbish.


Same goes for chewing gum and candy that is sold at HD. If it is
something that the customer buys normally it saves the customer the
extra trip for that item.


THIS customer notices the crewing gum priced a dollar higher than
elsewhere and doesn't buy it there.

Did you notice the 16 oz bottles of water just above for $1.59 each?

That too.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:15:32 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

Sure you did. If you paid the max into SS all your life and die before
you hit 80-something. Medicare? Fat chance. Compare what you're
getting and what you're paying, including supplement, against what a
private plan would cost you.

Try doing the arithmetic before you make wild claims like that.

As I said (relative to medicare), " Now, not so much, costs have just
gotten way out of hand". For social security, absolutely. I know
because I DID do the math.

On the SS, I should have said *after* 80-something, not *before*. Sorry.

I figured mine out quite a few years ago. IIRC, retiring at 62 and
living to 80+, I got back what I paid for. If I last till 90, no way.

But the average recipient gets back considerably more than they paid in
and yes, I'm including the employer contribution.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding what is a
fair wage.


--

-Mike-

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/17/2015 7:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 1:45:49 AM UTC-4, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Leon" wrote:

So how do you get the salt to the hand scoop?
-------------------------------------------------------------
A 2 wheeler will get the job done.

Lew

So how do you get the salt to the 2 wheeler?


You get the guy at the store to load it in your car, then you scoop it
out.

In the case of the dog food, train the dog to eat in the back of the
pickup until it gets down to a manageable weight.

Geeze - haven't any of you guys figured out how to get the wife to hump the
heavy stuff out of the truck and into the house/basement? Looks like we
might need some remedial training sessions here...


--

-Mike-

On 4/17/2015 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding what is a
fair wage.




If you show up for work, the wage is fair. No government needed.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/17/2015 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding
what is a fair wage.




If you show up for work, the wage is fair. No government needed.

Agreed!

--

-Mike-

On 17/04/2015 8:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/17/2015 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding what
is a
fair wage.




If you show up for work, the wage is fair. No government needed.

and if you are desperate and starving?

--

On 04/17/2015 06:54 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:15:32 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

Sure you did. If you paid the max into SS all your life and die before
you hit 80-something. Medicare? Fat chance. Compare what you're
getting and what you're paying, including supplement, against what a
private plan would cost you.

Try doing the arithmetic before you make wild claims like that.

As I said (relative to medicare), " Now, not so much, costs have just
gotten way out of hand". For social security, absolutely. I know
because I DID do the math.

On the SS, I should have said *after* 80-something, not *before*. Sorry.

I figured mine out quite a few years ago. IIRC, retiring at 62 and
living to 80+, I got back what I paid for. If I last till 90, no way.

But the average recipient gets back considerably more than they paid in
and yes, I'm including the employer contribution.


Then why is it that I put 10% away of gross my working life where my
employer and myself contributed 12.4% to SS, yet I have been taking out
twice out of my savings compared to what SS pays and my savings are
still growing?


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 04/17/2015 07:58 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 04/17/2015 06:54 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:15:32 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

Sure you did. If you paid the max into SS all your life and die before
you hit 80-something. Medicare? Fat chance. Compare what you're
getting and what you're paying, including supplement, against what a
private plan would cost you.

Try doing the arithmetic before you make wild claims like that.

As I said (relative to medicare), " Now, not so much, costs have just
gotten way out of hand". For social security, absolutely. I know
because I DID do the math.

On the SS, I should have said *after* 80-something, not *before*. Sorry.

I figured mine out quite a few years ago. IIRC, retiring at 62 and
living to 80+, I got back what I paid for. If I last till 90, no way.

But the average recipient gets back considerably more than they paid in
and yes, I'm including the employer contribution.


Then why is it that I put 10% away of gross my working life where my
employer and myself contributed 12.4% to SS, yet I have been taking out
twice out of my savings compared to what SS pays and my savings are
still growing?


BTW, I retired at 55.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On 4/17/15 9:32 PM, graham wrote:
On 17/04/2015 8:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/17/2015 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage,
yet people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which
should be zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job
should pay according to the skills and knowledge required. It
has to be higher in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding
what is a fair wage.




If you show up for work, the wage is fair. No government needed.

and if you are desperate and starving?


Funny how the people from other countries who are *actually* desperate
and starving risk life and limb to come to this country to work these
jobs.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 17:10:45 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Richard wrote:
On 4/16/2015 11:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/16/2015 12:31 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
John McCoy wrote:

I suspect that's part of the reason my local HD replaced an
aisle of hinges, latches, and similar hardware with motor
oil and windshield wipers. Bigger packages, thus less labor
to keep stocked. (that, and random addle-headed thinking by
management - with an auto parts store on the other side of
the intersection, who's going to go to HD for auto parts?)


As bizarre as the reasoning seems - they really do that more in an
effort to
take your money while you are in the store, and not because bigger is
easier
to stock. I absolutely never heard anything like that in any management
meetings in retail. In fact - this is the only place I have ever heard
such
a thing. It just is not a real world, daily consideration. They look to
sell what people buy, and to have that on the aisles to capture your
money
while you're in the store. It's that simple and the other thoughts
about
people, weights, etc. are just rubbish.


Same goes for chewing gum and candy that is sold at HD. If it is
something that the customer buys normally it saves the customer the
extra trip for that item.


THIS customer notices the crewing gum priced a dollar higher than
elsewhere and doesn't buy it there.

Did you notice the 16 oz bottles of water just above for $1.59 each?

Yep and that is more expensive than any gas prices Lew has posted.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:32:25 -0600, graham wrote:

On 17/04/2015 8:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/17/2015 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding what
is a
fair wage.




If you show up for work, the wage is fair. No government needed.

and if you are desperate and starving?

I would say that minimum wage will keep you from starving. I will
admit that there is a problem. However, with that said, I have
absolutely no confidence that the government can/will fix it. Their
idea is more regs when what we need are a hell of a lot less regs.


Now, back on topic. HF has their 70 gal. 2 HP Industrial Dust
Collector on sale right now for $170.

Add the Wynn 35A274NANO Cartridge Kit, which Wynn claims is 99.999 %
efficient at 0.5 micron. The filter kit and shipping comes out to
$204.38. The HF collector is 186.14 with tax. The whole package
comes out to 390.52.

At first, that seems to be a pretty good deal until I compare it to
the Grizzly G0548ZP with a 1 micron cartridge filter at $430.

I think that the Grizzly's specs, features, and build quality are well
worth the extra $40. Even on sale, the HF dust collector isn't a
bargain compared to what else is available if one wants to filter 1
micron particles, which I do.

Jerry O.

On 4/17/2015 10:32 PM, graham wrote:
On 17/04/2015 8:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/17/2015 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding what
is a
fair wage.




If you show up for work, the wage is fair. No government needed.

and if you are desperate and starving?

You probably are getting food stamps, getting a meal at the soup kitchen
or picking up a box of food at the pantry. No one literally starves in
this country if they get off their ass. If you are able bodied, you
are doing something for a few bucks. Cutting grass,shoveling snow,
helping local tradesmen.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:48:57 -0500
Jerry Osage wrote:

I think that the Grizzly's specs, features, and build quality are well
worth the extra $40. Even on sale, the HF dust collector isn't a
bargain compared to what else is available if one wants to filter 1
micron particles, which I do.

what makes a 1 micron particle

and why grizzly

i ask about grizzly since i have a grizzly drill press and it's
grizzly
or in other words based on this grizzly i don't think i'd buy
another one

maybe their quality has improved though

who's in the running for dust collectors
i saw laguna has them and it seems like there are a lot out there

Jerry Osage wrote:


Now, back on topic. HF has their 70 gal. 2 HP Industrial Dust
Collector on sale right now for $170.

Add the Wynn 35A274NANO Cartridge Kit, which Wynn claims is 99.999 %
efficient at 0.5 micron. The filter kit and shipping comes out to
$204.38. The HF collector is 186.14 with tax. The whole package
comes out to 390.52.

At first, that seems to be a pretty good deal until I compare it to
the Grizzly G0548ZP with a 1 micron cartridge filter at $430.

I think that the Grizzly's specs, features, and build quality are
well
worth the extra $40. Even on sale, the HF dust collector isn't a
bargain compared to what else is available if one wants to filter 1
micron particles, which I do.

-------------------------------------------------------
Wait till Swing and/or Leon jump on this one.

There is Festool and everything else that wants to be Festool when
it grows up followed by Fein.

Lew

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:03:33 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:48:57 -0500
Jerry Osage wrote:

I think that the Grizzly's specs, features, and build quality are well
worth the extra $40. Even on sale, the HF dust collector isn't a
bargain compared to what else is available if one wants to filter 1
micron particles, which I do.

what makes a 1 micron particle

I think my drum sander does...

and why grizzly

I like Grizzly - and I can drive to their showroom and check things
out.

i ask about grizzly since i have a grizzly drill press and it's
grizzly
or in other words based on this grizzly i don't think i'd buy
another one

maybe their quality has improved though

Possibly.

who's in the running for dust collectors
i saw laguna has them and it seems like there are a lot out there

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 14:15:32 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

Sure you did. If you paid the max into SS all your life and die
before you hit 80-something. Medicare? Fat chance. Compare what
you're getting and what you're paying, including supplement,
against what a private plan would cost you.

Try doing the arithmetic before you make wild claims like that.

As I said (relative to medicare), " Now, not so much, costs have just
gotten way out of hand". For social security, absolutely. I know
because I DID do the math.

On the SS, I should have said *after* 80-something, not *before*.
Sorry.

I figured mine out quite a few years ago. IIRC, retiring at 62 and
living to 80+, I got back what I paid for. If I last till 90, no way.

But the average recipient gets back considerably more than they paid
in and yes, I'm including the employer contribution.

1. That would probably be true IF the amount paid in laid fallow al those
years

2. The dollars paid out are worth a tiny fraction of those paid in.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 4/17/2015 9:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding what is a
fair wage.




Exactly because the government does not understand the word fair.

On 4/17/2015 9:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/17/2015 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding what
is a
fair wage.




If you show up for work, the wage is fair. No government needed.

Exactly

On 4/17/2015 9:32 PM, graham wrote:
On 17/04/2015 8:18 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/17/2015 10:02 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/16/2015 10:15 PM, krw wrote:


Minimum wage was *never* expected to be a comfortable wage, yet
people thing it should be. It's an entry wage (which should be
zero).

We should be talking "fair wage", not a minimum. The job should pay
according to the skills and knowledge required. It has to be higher
in NYC than in Podunk, Ohio too.

I don't know about you but I do not want the government deciding what
is a
fair wage.




If you show up for work, the wage is fair. No government needed.

and if you are desperate and starving?


You ask family for assistance.

On 4/17/2015 11:03 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 22:48:57 -0500
Jerry Osage wrote:

I think that the Grizzly's specs, features, and build quality are well
worth the extra $40. Even on sale, the HF dust collector isn't a
bargain compared to what else is available if one wants to filter 1
micron particles, which I do.

what makes a 1 micron particle

and why grizzly

i ask about grizzly since i have a grizzly drill press and it's
grizzly
or in other words based on this grizzly i don't think i'd buy
another one

maybe their quality has improved though

who's in the running for dust collectors
i saw laguna has them and it seems like there are a lot out there


IMHO Laguna DC's are way too much money. Comparison tests don't favor
Laguna because of all the air leaks.
Jet builds a pretty good DC, I recommend the remote controlled and the
pleated filter. Mine is almost 9 years old and works great with the
original filter. I typically change the 45 gallon bags out 4~5 times a
year. 1100 CFM capacity.
DC really don't require a high degree of quality as they are not
precision machines. They simply vacuum and filter the air.

Things to consider.
Pleated filter to make cleaning easier.
Remote control so you don't have to walk over to turn it on and off all
of the time.
A wide path to remove the collection bag. Bags expand when full and can
be difficult to slide out between the support arms.
Being mobile can be handy.

On 4/18/2015 10:42 AM, Leon wrote:

Jet builds a pretty good DC, I recommend the remote controlled and the
pleated filter. Mine is almost 9 years old and works great with the
original filter.

Things to consider.
Pleated filter to make cleaning easier.
Remote control so you don't have to walk over to turn it on and off all
of the time.

I'm happy with my Jet. The remote control is a must for ease of use
with any DC. Fits in my apron pocket and a touch of the button turns it
on and off

On 4/18/2015 10:36 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/18/2015 10:42 AM, Leon wrote:

Jet builds a pretty good DC, I recommend the remote controlled and the
pleated filter. Mine is almost 9 years old and works great with the
original filter.

Things to consider.
Pleated filter to make cleaning easier.
Remote control so you don't have to walk over to turn it on and off all
of the time.

I'm happy with my Jet. The remote control is a must for ease of use
with any DC. Fits in my apron pocket and a touch of the button turns it
on and off



I leave my remote, typically, resting on my rip fence. The apron is a
great place except I only only wear my apron about half the time.
Houston heat and humidity being the the reason for that. Also my Jet
remote is IR so I have to aim it.
But seriously I am surprised that I have not sucked the remote up yet. LOL.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 07:50:39 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

1. That would probably be true IF the amount paid in laid fallow al
those years

2. The dollars paid out are worth a tiny fraction of those paid in.

Gimme some credit. I added up contributions converted to todays
dollars. That is, in many years, more than they would have earned in
interest.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:58:30 -0700, Doug Winterburn wrote:

Then why is it that I put 10% away of gross my working life where my
employer and myself contributed 12.4% to SS, yet I have been taking out
twice out of my savings compared to what SS pays and my savings are
still growing?

What's the fact that you made good investments and were lucky got to do
with the original discussion?

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 21:13:08 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Wait till Swing and/or Leon jump on this one.

There is Festool and everything else that wants to be Festool when
it grows up followed by Fein.

Lew

If I was a lot younger, and made my living by woodworking, I would be
very interested in Festool. One does not need the best tools to do
the best work. However, when time really is money, I always wanted
the very best tools I could afford because, in the long run, they
saved me both time and money

As an old hobbyist, who is tired of wearing a dust mask for the very
fine wood particles, I'm willing to spend $450 for Grizzly 1 micron
dust filter listed at 1700 CFM at 10" SP. It is a long way from
Festool, but a step up from HF. At least in my opinion, which is all
that counts.

Jerry O

On 04/18/2015 10:32 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 19:58:30 -0700, Doug Winterburn wrote:

Then why is it that I put 10% away of gross my working life where my
employer and myself contributed 12.4% to SS, yet I have been taking out
twice out of my savings compared to what SS pays and my savings are
still growing?

What's the fact that you made good investments and were lucky got to do
with the original discussion?


It has to do with the fact that SS as an investment is a poor one.
People could do much better investing that 12.4% themselves for a
retirement fund. The fact that you claim most people will take out more
than they contributed only underscores how poor an investment SS is. I
had no insider knowledge in my investments, only the standard mutual
funds, bonds, reits, etc - all done by my financial advisor with my
permission. I also didn't make a huge amount of money, although I
usually maxed out on SS contributions before the end of the year. Luck
had absolutely nothing to do with it, unless you consider planning ahead
to be luck.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill