Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

I've got a couple Harbor Fright Drill press. One is a floor model. Its not
wonderful, but its atleast 15 years old and it works. Once you learn a few
tricks you can drill decent holes. The other is a 12 speed bench model. In
some ways its better than the floor model. I keep a tapping head in that
one. I tap a lot of 10-32 holes in aluminum with it. It was the smallest
least expensive drill press I could find that had a regular MT2 taper, and
it works great for what I use it for. Tapping holes.

A buddy from another newsgroup gave me a good deal on another tapping head a
little bigger than the one I had. I figured I would set it up, and just
leave a 1/4-20 machine tap in it since that's the second most common hole I
tap. I was thinking another one of those Harbor Fright 12 speed bench
toppers would do the trick, so I started hunting for a coupon or a sale.
Finally I found an outfit that would "sell" me a coupon for it for $5.
Since it would save me $40 if it wasn't bogus I figured it was worth a shot.
I printed my coupon and checked on-line to make sure the coupon code was
good. Off to Harbor Fright to buy my drill press. There were none on
display, but there was one below in a box. I opened up the box to make sure
everything was there, and noticed the head didn't look right. I checked
further and found it doesn't have an MT2 taper anymore. Its got that stupid
fixed BT16 spindle taper instead. The one that is on the smaller cheaper
drill presses. Just to be double sure I looked at the manual. Yep. They
downgraded the unit a LOT and didn't lower the price.

I left the coupon on the box for the next guy.

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 6:31:29 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

I've got a couple Harbor Fright Drill press. One is a floor model. Its not
wonderful, but its atleast 15 years old and it works. Once you learn a few
tricks you can drill decent holes. The other is a 12 speed bench model. In
some ways its better than the floor model. I keep a tapping head in that
one. I tap a lot of 10-32 holes in aluminum with it. It was the smallest
least expensive drill press I could find that had a regular MT2 taper, and
it works great for what I use it for. Tapping holes.

A buddy from another newsgroup gave me a good deal on another tapping head a
little bigger than the one I had. I figured I would set it up, and just
leave a 1/4-20 machine tap in it since that's the second most common hole I
tap. I was thinking another one of those Harbor Fright 12 speed bench
toppers would do the trick, so I started hunting for a coupon or a sale.
Finally I found an outfit that would "sell" me a coupon for it for $5.
Since it would save me $40 if it wasn't bogus I figured it was worth a shot.
I printed my coupon and checked on-line to make sure the coupon code was
good. Off to Harbor Fright to buy my drill press. There were none on
display, but there was one below in a box. I opened up the box to make sure
everything was there, and noticed the head didn't look right. I checked
further and found it doesn't have an MT2 taper anymore. Its got that stupid
fixed BT16 spindle taper instead. The one that is on the smaller cheaper
drill presses. Just to be double sure I looked at the manual. Yep. They
downgraded the unit a LOT and didn't lower the price.

I left the coupon on the box for the next guy.

Hmmm...downgraded the unit and didn't lower the price. Where have I heard that before?

http://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_960w/Bost...nsumer_g01.jpg

"Bob La Londe" wrote in
:

so I started hunting for a
coupon or a sale. Finally I found an outfit that would "sell" me a
coupon for it for $5.

Going off on a tangent here, but how could you not find a
Harbor Freight coupon? Every magazine I subscribe to has
a full-page Harbor Freight ad every month, with a 20% off
coupon (and one for a free tape measure/LED lamp/screwdriver/
random trinket). Every week the mailman brings me the three
local ad stuffers, and every one has a Harbor Freight ad in
it. I could probably find a dozen Harbor Freight coupons
in the house right now (plus another dozen that are expired).

John

"John McCoy" wrote in message
. ..
"Bob La Londe" wrote in
:

so I started hunting for a
coupon or a sale. Finally I found an outfit that would "sell" me a
coupon for it for $5.

Going off on a tangent here, but how could you not find a
Harbor Freight coupon? Every magazine I subscribe to has
a full-page Harbor Freight ad every month, with a 20% off
coupon (and one for a free tape measure/LED lamp/screwdriver/
random trinket). Every week the mailman brings me the three
local ad stuffers, and every one has a Harbor Freight ad in
it. I could probably find a dozen Harbor Freight coupons
in the house right now (plus another dozen that are expired).

John

There are "special coupons" around that are better than the coupons that you
see everywhere. I knew what I was looking for and I found one. Sadly they
changed the drill. Glad I didn't just order it on-line. I would have been
peeved. to find I couldn't use it for what I wanted.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 6:31:29 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

I've got a couple Harbor Fright Drill press. One is a floor model. Its not
wonderful, but its atleast 15 years old and it works. Once you learn a few
tricks you can drill decent holes. The other is a 12 speed bench model. In
some ways its better than the floor model. I keep a tapping head in that
one. I tap a lot of 10-32 holes in aluminum with it. It was the smallest
least expensive drill press I could find that had a regular MT2 taper, and
it works great for what I use it for. Tapping holes.

A buddy from another newsgroup gave me a good deal on another tapping head a
little bigger than the one I had. I figured I would set it up, and just
leave a 1/4-20 machine tap in it since that's the second most common hole I
tap. I was thinking another one of those Harbor Fright 12 speed bench
toppers would do the trick, so I started hunting for a coupon or a sale.
Finally I found an outfit that would "sell" me a coupon for it for $5.
Since it would save me $40 if it wasn't bogus I figured it was worth a shot.
I printed my coupon and checked on-line to make sure the coupon code was
good. Off to Harbor Fright to buy my drill press. There were none on
display, but there was one below in a box. I opened up the box to make sure
everything was there, and noticed the head didn't look right. I checked
further and found it doesn't have an MT2 taper anymore. Its got that stupid
fixed BT16 spindle taper instead. The one that is on the smaller cheaper
drill presses. Just to be double sure I looked at the manual. Yep. They
downgraded the unit a LOT and didn't lower the price.

I left the coupon on the box for the next guy.
Hmmm...downgraded the unit and didn't lower the price. Where have I heard that before?

http://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_960w/Bost...nsumer_g01.jpg


Went to Lowes the other day to buy another box of Hefty 39-gallon 1.3
mil "Steel-Sak" garbage bags. From my records, I have observed these
price increases:

2009, $9.99
2010, $10.98
2011, $11.99
2015, $12.99

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me
was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol
There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new
choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.

Bill wrote:

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me
was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol
There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new
choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.

I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the heat on
Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They can only sell
what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do that at some profit
level.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me
was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol
There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new
choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.
I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the heat on
Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They can only sell
what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do that at some profit
level.

We'll see if they notice when I buy in bulk online and remove them both
from my radar.

I was just thinking today how the availability of credit, along with
poor judgement on the part of many consumers, has advanced car prices to
where they are today. Make people pay cash and see what happens! ; )
Is that a "silly" notion? If so, perhaps only because we have been
marketed to so much that we think a certain way?

Mike, It seems to me that the corps you are looking out for want an
"ever-increasing" profit level.

Is that fair to the person on a fixed income (basically spending "old
money")?

"Bill" wrote:

Went to Lowes the other day to buy another box of Hefty 39-gallon
1.3 mil "Steel-Sak" garbage bags. From my records, I have observed
these price increases:

2009, $9.99
2010, $10.98
2011, $11.99
2015, $12.99

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged
me was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the
box instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged
me...lol There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of
them. My new choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.
----------------------------------------------------------
Been to the supermarket lately.

The favorite way for retail consumer products to get a price increase
is to maintain the package size while reducing the quantity of the
product in the package.

As examples a half gallon size (64 oz) box of ice cream is now 56 oz,
and a 5 oz box of Irish Spring bath soap is now 3.75 oz but the box
sizes for these items have remained constant.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:

Went to Lowes the other day to buy another box of Hefty 39-gallon
1.3 mil "Steel-Sak" garbage bags. From my records, I have observed
these price increases:

2009, $9.99
2010, $10.98
2011, $11.99
2015, $12.99

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged
me was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the
box instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged
me...lol There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of
them. My new choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.
----------------------------------------------------------
Been to the supermarket lately.

The favorite way for retail consumer products to get a price increase
is to maintain the package size while reducing the quantity of the
product in the package.

As examples a half gallon size (64 oz) box of ice cream is now 56 oz,
and a 5 oz box of Irish Spring bath soap is now 3.75 oz but the box
sizes for these items have remained constant.

Lew


I guess one of the kind things we can do for each other is to share our
knowledge. I don't like it when they try to "deceive" us. TurboTax, you
may recall, tried to do that in a big way this year.
Gasoline prices actually aren't so bad at this point! : )

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:31:06 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again


I opened up the box to make sure
everything was there, and noticed the head didn't look right. I checked
further and found it doesn't have an MT2 taper anymore. Its got that stupid
fixed BT16 spindle taper instead. The one that is on the smaller cheaper
drill presses. Just to be double sure I looked at the manual. Yep. They
downgraded the unit a LOT and didn't lower the price.


What does that have to do with quality? They downgraded the features,
but that does not mean the quality of the product is affected at all.
You have the terms confused.

Quality has to do with tolerances, grades of material, proper
assembly.

What you have is a lesser featured product.

Also, don't be confused by a company that touts they are ISO9000
certified. That does not mean them make a good product. It meant if
they make a crappy product, they will all be equally crappy and they
have the process to assure it. .

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:20:24 -0400, Bill
wrote:




We'll see if they notice when I buy in bulk online and remove them both
from my radar.

They won't. Don't wait for the phone to ring.




Mike, It seems to me that the corps you are looking out for want an
"ever-increasing" profit level.

Is that fair to the person on a fixed income (basically spending "old
money")?

I don't see how anyone is looking out for the increasing profit level.
Lowes buys products and resells them with a markup. That has gone on
for centuries. If the supplier raises prices, the sell must too. In a
sense, they have the same fixed income that you have. It is based on
the markup of what they sell. Go too high and people stop buying, go
too low and you go out of business. I don't like the deception of the
smaller package though and I blame Hefty, not Lowes.

Fair? Questionable, but life has been unfair for as long as there has
been life. If you can find a better deal on line, go for it. I
would.

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:45:40 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"Bill" wrote:

Went to Lowes the other day to buy another box of Hefty 39-gallon
1.3 mil "Steel-Sak" garbage bags. From my records, I have observed
these price increases:

2009, $9.99
2010, $10.98
2011, $11.99
2015, $12.99

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged
me was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the
box instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged
me...lol There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of
them. My new choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.
----------------------------------------------------------
Been to the supermarket lately.

The favorite way for retail consumer products to get a price increase
is to maintain the package size while reducing the quantity of the
product in the package.

As examples a half gallon size (64 oz) box of ice cream is now 56 oz,
and a 5 oz box of Irish Spring bath soap is now 3.75 oz but the box
sizes for these items have remained constant.

Look at the mayonnaise jars- now 30 oz. instead of 32 oz.
Sauers just succumbed to this and I am looking at other brands for the
first time in years.
I quit Unilever over their "Just Mayonnaise" fiasco. No more
Lipton,Knorr or other Unilever for me.
If enough of us over react, this bs will not be acceptable.
--
Mr.E

Bill wrote:


We'll see if they notice when I buy in bulk online and remove them
both from my radar.

Probably not. If a very large number of people did that, then it would be
noticable, but not at the one-off level.


Mike, It seems to me that the corps you are looking out for want an
"ever-increasing" profit level.


I'm not looking out for them Bill - was just trying to point out what I
thought was an error in your plan. But - yes, they are always looking to
increase profits - or at least top line revenue.

Is that fair to the person on a fixed income (basically spending "old
money")?

That question can't be answered since it requires a subjective response.
Each of us may have differing thoughts on what is fair.

--

-Mike-

Mr.E wrote:

Look at the mayonnaise jars- now 30 oz. instead of 32 oz.
Sauers just succumbed to this and I am looking at other brands for the
first time in years.
I quit Unilever over their "Just Mayonnaise" fiasco. No more
Lipton,Knorr or other Unilever for me.
If enough of us over react, this bs will not be acceptable.

That's the principle behind consumer driven markets but the problem is that
seldom (to the point of almsot never...) do consumers band together to
create enough of a force to drive things like this.

--

-Mike-

On 04/14/2015 07:46 PM, Bill wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 6:31:29 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

I've got a couple Harbor Fright Drill press. One is a floor model.
Its not
wonderful, but its atleast 15 years old and it works. Once you learn
a few
tricks you can drill decent holes. The other is a 12 speed bench
model. In
some ways its better than the floor model. I keep a tapping head in
that
one. I tap a lot of 10-32 holes in aluminum with it. It was the
smallest
least expensive drill press I could find that had a regular MT2
taper, and
it works great for what I use it for. Tapping holes.

A buddy from another newsgroup gave me a good deal on another tapping
head a
little bigger than the one I had. I figured I would set it up, and just
leave a 1/4-20 machine tap in it since that's the second most common
hole I
tap. I was thinking another one of those Harbor Fright 12 speed bench
toppers would do the trick, so I started hunting for a coupon or a sale.
Finally I found an outfit that would "sell" me a coupon for it for $5.
Since it would save me $40 if it wasn't bogus I figured it was worth
a shot.
I printed my coupon and checked on-line to make sure the coupon code was
good. Off to Harbor Fright to buy my drill press. There were none on
display, but there was one below in a box. I opened up the box to
make sure
everything was there, and noticed the head didn't look right. I checked
further and found it doesn't have an MT2 taper anymore. Its got that
stupid
fixed BT16 spindle taper instead. The one that is on the smaller
cheaper
drill presses. Just to be double sure I looked at the manual. Yep.
They
downgraded the unit a LOT and didn't lower the price.

I left the coupon on the box for the next guy.
Hmmm...downgraded the unit and didn't lower the price. Where have I
heard that before?

http://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_960w/Bost...nsumer_g01.jpg



Went to Lowes the other day to buy another box of Hefty 39-gallon 1.3
mil "Steel-Sak" garbage bags. From my records, I have observed these
price increases:

2009, $9.99
2010, $10.98
2011, $11.99
2015, $12.99

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me
was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol There
are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new choice is
unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.


Lowes margins haven't changed much in years, in fact they may have gone
down some. Yes, their gross and net have increased with selling more
and adding stores. Their financials seem to reflect a well run company.


--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 9:01:35 AM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr.E wrote:

Look at the mayonnaise jars- now 30 oz. instead of 32 oz.
Sauers just succumbed to this and I am looking at other brands for the
first time in years.
I quit Unilever over their "Just Mayonnaise" fiasco. No more
Lipton,Knorr or other Unilever for me.
If enough of us over react, this bs will not be acceptable.

That's the principle behind consumer driven markets but the problem is that
seldom (to the point of almsot never...) do consumers band together to
create enough of a force to drive things like this.


While consumers may not "band together" they often move in the same direction over the course of time, which of course influences the way manufacturers manufacture and sellers sell.

However, I don't think there is a "band together" option (or even a slow movement option) for the smaller packaging/same price situation. If every company is doing it - well, every company worth buying - then the consumer has no viable option.

Are we all going to band together (or slowly move) to buy low quality items just because they retained the old size/price ratio? Not me. I'm not going to buy some off brand mayonnaise or ice cream if I don't like the flavor, consistency, etc.

There are only so many brands that you can add to your boycott list before you run out of brands to boycott. They are all doing the same thing because they have to in order to survive.

Also, don't be confused by a company that touts they are ISO9000
certified. That does not mean them make a good product. It meant if
they make a crappy product, they will all be equally crappy and they
have the process to assure it. .

And the paperwork to prove it.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

I don't like the deception of the
smaller package though and I blame Hefty, not Lowes.

I'm with you on that one - and it's become epidemic in
the grocery stores, where almost everything now comes
in some odd size, like 14.7oz in a package that used to
hold 16oz, at the same or higher price.

There are some products, like Chobani yoghurt, that I
just don't buy any more because the small size is too
small to be useful.

John

On 4/14/2015 10:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me
was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol
There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new
choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.
I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the heat on
Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They can only
sell
what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do that at some profit
level.

We'll see if they notice when I buy in bulk online and remove them both
from my radar.

I was just thinking today how the availability of credit, along with
poor judgement on the part of many consumers, has advanced car prices to
where they are today. Make people pay cash and see what happens! ; )
Is that a "silly" notion? If so, perhaps only because we have been
marketed to so much that we think a certain way?

Mike, It seems to me that the corps you are looking out for want an
"ever-increasing" profit level.

Is that fair to the person on a fixed income (basically spending "old
money")?



Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive per
pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16# bags of dog
food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And that 30# bag
used to be 40#.

On 4/15/2015 5:02 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:20:24 -0400, Bill
wrote:




We'll see if they notice when I buy in bulk online and remove them both
from my radar.

They won't. Don't wait for the phone to ring.




Mike, It seems to me that the corps you are looking out for want an
"ever-increasing" profit level.

Is that fair to the person on a fixed income (basically spending "old
money")?

I don't see how anyone is looking out for the increasing profit level.
Lowes buys products and resells them with a markup. That has gone on
for centuries. If the supplier raises prices, the sell must too. In a
sense, they have the same fixed income that you have. It is based on
the markup of what they sell.

That is correct, BUT the retailer is not required or locked into a fixed
particular or specific profit margin. They can change that on a whim.
A retailer would be foolish to set everything at a specific mark up and
not tweak it on a routine basis. If you have a slow mover you decrease
the mark up, a fast mover you increase the mark up. Ideally you want to
keep the least amount of inventory such that you do not run out of
inventory before the next order arrives.


Go too high and people stop buying, go
too low and you go out of business. I don't like the deception of the
smaller package though and I blame Hefty, not Lowes.

Exactly, this is simply the manufacturer raising prices if the price for
"similar" sized product remains the same. Take a look at coffee. You
used to buy that by the pound, now by the 12 oz. bag.





Fair? Questionable, but life has been unfair for as long as there has
been life. If you can find a better deal on line, go for it. I
would.

On 4/15/2015 8:00 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr.E wrote:

Look at the mayonnaise jars- now 30 oz. instead of 32 oz.
Sauers just succumbed to this and I am looking at other brands for the
first time in years.
I quit Unilever over their "Just Mayonnaise" fiasco. No more
Lipton,Knorr or other Unilever for me.
If enough of us over react, this bs will not be acceptable.

That's the principle behind consumer driven markets but the problem is that
seldom (to the point of almsot never...) do consumers band together to
create enough of a force to drive things like this.



As long as consumers don't get into money used for entertainment and
sports they are not likely to worry about a few extra dollars for the
same product.

On 4/15/2015 4:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:31:06 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again


I opened up the box to make sure
everything was there, and noticed the head didn't look right. I checked
further and found it doesn't have an MT2 taper anymore. Its got that stupid
fixed BT16 spindle taper instead. The one that is on the smaller cheaper
drill presses. Just to be double sure I looked at the manual. Yep. They
downgraded the unit a LOT and didn't lower the price.


What does that have to do with quality? They downgraded the features,
but that does not mean the quality of the product is affected at all.
You have the terms confused.

Quality has to do with tolerances, grades of material, proper
assembly.

What you have is a lesser featured product.

Also, don't be confused by a company that touts they are ISO9000
certified. That does not mean them make a good product. It meant if
they make a crappy product, they will all be equally crappy and they
have the process to assure it. .

Yup! Meeting a certain standard means that you meet a minimum
requirement and that is all.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

Bill wrote:

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me
was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol
There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new
choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.

I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the heat on
Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They can only sell
what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do that at some profit
level.

Up to a point this is true. However, stores like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and other high volume stores often have products
packaged to their specs and labeling. In some cases items sold at those
stores vary slightly from what is available elsewhere and carry different
SKU numbers. The latter eliminates the problem of them having to price match
other stores as nobody else has that exact product and SKU. Even much
smaller and more specialized Tractor Supply has items customized to their
specs and they carry unique "TS" model numbers.

RE the trash bags. I noticed the same thing with tall kitchen bags purchased
at Sam's Club... the count changed over time as well as the price per bag...
both went up!

John

John McCoy wrote in
:


I'm with you on that one - and it's become epidemic in
the grocery stores, where almost everything now comes
in some odd size, like 14.7oz in a package that used to
hold 16oz, at the same or higher price.

There are some products, like Chobani yoghurt, that I
just don't buy any more because the small size is too
small to be useful.

John

I quit buying Hostess Ding Dongs many years ago after they made them
smaller. They used to be about the same size as hockey pucks (and we
called them "hockey pucks" for that reason), but now they're much closer
in size to the little plastic things that come with some mini-stick toys
instead of actual pucks.

Sometimes if you complain to the manufacturer, they'll actually take note
and possibly do something about it. (Often they'll just send you
coupons.) If enough people complain, they might make changes to the
product. Other times, they just don't care.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive
per pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16# bags
of dog food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And that
30# bag used to be 40#.


Yep... It's one of the games they play. Sometimes buying the big bag is
cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure is to pull
out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:31:06 -0700
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Fright 12 speed bench toppers would do the trick, so I started
hunting for a coupon or a sale. Finally I found an outfit that would
"sell" me a coupon for it for $5. Since it would save me $40 if it

I haven't looked at prices for benchtop drill presses
is there a wide range of prices
how much lower is 'harbor fright'

sounds like a series of fortunate events or are you not going to
get one at all now

I left the coupon on the box for the next guy.

coupon's only good for that tool?
what's the story with that

Leon wrote:

Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive
per pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16# bags
of dog food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And
that 30# bag used to be 40#.

Actually - I have not noticed any such thing, but then again, I've not
looked at it in decades. I guess we became ingrained to believe that bulk
resulted in lower price per unit. I know that bulk can be more expensive
based on the fact that you may not use up the bulk quantity prior to
expiration or some other limiting factor, but I have never seen it to be
more expensive per unit. I have seen what may be what you're pointing to
though, where some sort of special packaging offer makes the bulk theory
fall on its face, but it seems to me that it is limited in its offering and
only relevant because it is some sort of special offer. Guess you just have
to remain on your toes.

--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:


That is correct, BUT the retailer is not required or locked into a
fixed particular or specific profit margin. They can change that on
a whim. A retailer would be foolish to set everything at a specific
mark up and not tweak it on a routine basis. If you have a slow
mover you decrease the mark up, a fast mover you increase the mark
up. Ideally you want to keep the least amount of inventory such that
you do not run out of inventory before the next order arrives.


Yup - and for the most part, that is exactly what they do. That's one
component of how/why we see "specials" or discounted pricing in stores every
day.


Exactly, this is simply the manufacturer raising prices if the price
for "similar" sized product remains the same. Take a look at coffee.
You used to buy that by the pound, now by the 12 oz. bag.


But again - that's not a retailer's domain. That's the domain of the
"manufacturer". The retailer simply passes these new realities on to the
consumer.


--

-Mike-

On 15 Apr 2015 15:08:01 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure is
to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off

we don't care, we don't have to

John Grossbohlin wrote:


Up to a point this is true. However, stores like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and other high volume stores often have products
packaged to their specs and labeling.

This used to be more true 20 years ago than it is today. Today, it is not
practical to do this across a wide span of products, and one could almost
say, it is seldom done on common branded items. In the case of Bill's
original comment - it is absolutley not the kind of thing the retailer has
any influence over. It will come as a surprise to many, just how few things
you will find at Home Depot or Lowe's are in any way specifically designed,
built, or even packaged exclusively for them. It's just too expensive to do
that. Different retailers may opt for special offers from manufacturers,
and on a special packaging offer basis, may even gain exclusivity, but that
is different from the base product being uniquely designed to their
specification. So - I absolutely contradict your statement that they "often
have products packaged to their specs and labeling". That is different from
White Labeling - so don't confuse the two. In the world of standard
labeling, this is just not very true anymore. Has not been for quite a
while.


In some cases items sold at
those stores vary slightly from what is available elsewhere and carry
different SKU numbers.

Used to be that way - not so much at all anymore. Time to go back out to
the stores and try some tests... Show me the Hefty bags that Bill spoke of
that are marketed under different UPC codes across different stores? SKU's
have no meaning in this - a SKU is specific to the retailer, not the
product. SKU is simply an inventory management practice, and as such is
unique to the retailer. No two retailers will ever use the same SKU - on
any product.


The latter eliminates the problem of them
having to price match other stores as nobody else has that exact
product and SKU.

Completely wrong. Take your cell phone in with a UPC app loaded on it and
scan the same product at any one of a hundredd different retailers - it will
scan the same information for you. It is not about SKU. SKU is purely a
retailer specific identifier - has nothing at all to do with the product
from the manufacturer's perspective. In short - SKU is completely
irrelevant.

Even much smaller and more specialized Tractor
Supply has items customized to their specs and they carry unique "TS"
model numbers.

They may - that is indeed possible, but fewer and fewer retailers waste
their time doing that anymore - it just did not pay off. You will find, if
you actually look at UPC codes, that even Tractor Supply does not do this as
much as you may think. Don't confuse this with White Labeling or Private
Labeling - that's a similar, but different matter. It's usually quite easy
to find proper comparisons even with this technique though.


--

-Mike-

Electric Comet wrote:

..

good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off


NY requires that on shelf labeling.

--

-Mike-

On 4/15/2015 10:12 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


That is correct, BUT the retailer is not required or locked into a
fixed particular or specific profit margin. They can change that on
a whim. A retailer would be foolish to set everything at a specific
mark up and not tweak it on a routine basis. If you have a slow
mover you decrease the mark up, a fast mover you increase the mark
up. Ideally you want to keep the least amount of inventory such that
you do not run out of inventory before the next order arrives.


Yup - and for the most part, that is exactly what they do. That's one
component of how/why we see "specials" or discounted pricing in stores every
day.


Exactly, this is simply the manufacturer raising prices if the price
for "similar" sized product remains the same. Take a look at coffee.
You used to buy that by the pound, now by the 12 oz. bag.


But again - that's not a retailer's domain. That's the domain of the
"manufacturer". The retailer simply passes these new realities on to the
consumer.


OR differences in gasoline prices from one block to the next within the
same brand. ;~) Ain't that right Lew.

On 4/15/2015 10:08 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive
per pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16# bags
of dog food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And that
30# bag used to be 40#.


Yep... It's one of the games they play. Sometimes buying the big bag is
cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure is to pull
out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

Puckdropper


BUT it could also be other factors. Especially when the lower pricing
is on the smaller quantity per lb. Risk of injury by stockers could be
a factor. Especially in these times of litigation litigation litigation.

On 4/14/15 11:45 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:

Went to Lowes the other day to buy another box of Hefty 39-gallon
1.3 mil "Steel-Sak" garbage bags. From my records, I have observed
these price increases:

2009, $9.99 2010, $10.98 2011, $11.99 2015, $12.99

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged
me was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in
the box instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged
me...lol There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of
them. My new choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.
---------------------------------------------------------- Been to
the supermarket lately.

The favorite way for retail consumer products to get a price
increase is to maintain the package size while reducing the quantity
of the product in the package.

As examples a half gallon size (64 oz) box of ice cream is now 56
oz, and a 5 oz box of Irish Spring bath soap is now 3.75 oz but the
box sizes for these items have remained constant.

Lew


Aren't these things clearly marked on the packaging?
You guys are acting like they're trying to pull on over on you.

You can see the price and the quantity or weight or volume clearly
marked on the labels. You're not stupid cows sauntering over to a feed
trough ever day gulping down whatever was shoveled into it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/15/2015 10:20 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On 15 Apr 2015 15:08:01 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure is
to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off

we don't care, we don't have to


This is true but they could also "not post the correct calculation per
oz or lb. to steer you towards what they want you to buy. I have seen
that. If it really matters to you it is best to make the calculations
yourself.

Leon wrote:


OR differences in gasoline prices from one block to the next within
the same brand. ;~) Ain't that right Lew.

You woke up with a little tickle up yer butt, didn't you?

--

-Mike-

On 4/15/15 10:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/15/2015 10:20 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On 15 Apr 2015 15:08:01 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure is
to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off

we don't care, we don't have to


This is true but they could also "not post the correct calculation per
oz or lb. to steer you towards what they want you to buy. I have seen
that. If it really matters to you it is best to make the calculations
yourself.


That would require people to know basic math.
They don't teach that anymore. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Leon wrote:
On 4/15/2015 10:08 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive
per pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16#
bags of dog food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And
that 30# bag used to be 40#.


Yep... It's one of the games they play. Sometimes buying the big
bag is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for
sure is to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

Puckdropper


BUT it could also be other factors. Especially when the lower pricing
is on the smaller quantity per lb. Risk of injury by stockers could
be a factor. Especially in these times of litigation litigation
litigation.

Having worked in retail, and had visibility into special offers, pricing,
etc., I would say that is probably not even a considersation. For the most
part, we're talking about items that are commodities which are well under
the weight requirements of the typical floor job. It's usually more a
reflection of an offer from the manufacturer who is trying different things
to drive sales. Some of those contradict their normal, baseline pricing
strategies. That's why they are limited time offers...

--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:
On 4/15/2015 10:20 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On 15 Apr 2015 15:08:01 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure is
to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off

we don't care, we don't have to


This is true but they could also "not post the correct calculation per
oz or lb. to steer you towards what they want you to buy. I have seen
that. If it really matters to you it is best to make the calculations
yourself.

I'm more than a little skeptical of this Leon. It's the "not post the
corredt calculation per..." part that raises my suspicions. No doubt -
there are unscrupulous retailers out there, so I can't argue that it does
not or cannot happen, but really - how often does this happen?

--

-Mike-

On 4/15/2015 10:09 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive
per pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16# bags
of dog food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And
that 30# bag used to be 40#.

Actually - I have not noticed any such thing, but then again, I've not
looked at it in decades. I guess we became ingrained to believe that bulk
resulted in lower price per unit. I know that bulk can be more expensive
based on the fact that you may not use up the bulk quantity prior to
expiration or some other limiting factor, but I have never seen it to be
more expensive per unit. I have seen what may be what you're pointing to
though, where some sort of special packaging offer makes the bulk theory
fall on its face, but it seems to me that it is limited in its offering and
only relevant because it is some sort of special offer. Guess you just have
to remain on your toes.


Take a look at Kibbles N Bit in particular. Our Kroger store is more
expensive on the larger bags. We used to buy 40# bags for our Great
Dane and that changed to 32# then 30#. We much prefer buying 2, 16#
bags than the 30# bag even if it worked out to the same price. She goes
through about 10#'s a week.

This is sort of a recent thing. Heaving a large bag was getting old,
off the shelf into the basket, out of the basket into the trunk, out of
the trunk into the house. We started looking into how much more we
would pay to get about the same amount in smaller bags. Strange enough
it was less expensive.