Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,710
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

-MIKE- wrote:
On 4/15/15 10:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/15/2015 10:20 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On 15 Apr 2015 15:08:01 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure
is to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off

we don't care, we don't have to



This is true but they could also "not post the correct calculation
per oz or lb. to steer you towards what they want you to buy. I
have seen that. If it really matters to you it is best to make the
calculations yourself.


That would require people to know basic math.
They don't teach that anymore. :-)


No - but those people do have their trophy, or their certificate of
accomplishment which shows... ummmm...well, something, and now they are
well prepared members of society.

--

-Mike-



  #42   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,287
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

Strange to me that people go to the cheapest tool store on the planet and complain when they don't get the most extreme bargain available. Purchasing another piece of (inexpensive) tooling just for the sake of convenience and nothing else is something that was unheard of when I started in the trades.

The easiest remedy of course, is to go buy exactly what you want and pay the going rate, not to expect a tool discounter to make tools to one's standards. Personally, HF and I are at peace. I buy some things from them quite happily, and run like hell the other direction from others. They are a item distributor, not a tool distributor.

As far as less in the package, regardless of what that might be, it will certainly continue on and will get worse. With the $15 an hour movement gaining steam it is only a matter of time before one of our more "forward thinking" states adopt that.

And how very sad. When reading the reasoning behind the $15 movement I was embarrassed for all involved. Flipping burgers, job site labor, working at a car wash, working as a bus boy etc., used to be considered entry level jobs. They showed you how to work (show up on time, take some training, learn to do work you don't like, how to work well with others, the importance of your given task) and taught the importance of a given task. You had an opportunity to start building a history of showing up on time when scheduled, taking some training, and showing yourself to be a worthwhile employee to others. You developed a history that showed you were reliable, capable, and worth training, so your employer (or someone else!) would hire you at a better rate of pay after proving yourself in the slightest way.

Now, the $15 an hour folks want the most menial jobs, the jobs with the least skill level, the jobs that provided by employers that suffer all those that come and go as first time employees to be paid a "livable" wage. Regardless of their work history (if any), skill level, employment history or lack thereof, an employer will be required to pay almost double what they are paying now for minimum wage employees.

And for those of you that aren't employers, take it from me. When the minimum goes up for burger flippers, all wages will go up. The guys running the cash register at your local burger joint that are making $12 will certainly want to be paid at least $20. One of the army of "assistant managers" at said burger joint will no doubt want to be raised from his $20 an hour price tag to $25 or more.

So many of the low paying jobs WERE NEVER MEANT TO BE CAREERS, and you weren't ever going to make a livable wage to support yourself doing them. These jobs were set up in an econonic model that allowed the employer the latitude to work with the lowest common denominator of the employee pool. When I started as a laborer more than 40 years ago, I had a clear understanding that I would never support myself with that wage (minimum). It made me want to learn, made me want to progress, and certainly made me volunteer for all the overtime I could get. I knew I was screwed on the bottom rung of the ladder, but then worked hard enough to get as far away from it as possible.

I feel bad for employers that have to maintain that kind of work force. Good employees are worth what you pay them. I always pay top dollar and always have, but that is my choice. But it is difficult to imagine paying guys that have no work history, and no training double the minimum wage for just showing up. Around here, there are still a lot of high school kids that work at the fast food places. I cringe at the thought of hiring today's high school kids to do anything for $15 an hour...

But I am afraid for all employers it is just a matter of time. THEN we will see how much coffee is in the bag, how many fries you get, and how much more self service we will all be doing at our vendors of choice.

Robert

  #43   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,710
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

Leon wrote:


Take a look at Kibbles N Bit in particular. Our Kroger store is more
expensive on the larger bags. We used to buy 40# bags for our Great
Dane and that changed to 32# then 30#. We much prefer buying 2, 16#
bags than the 30# bag even if it worked out to the same price. She
goes through about 10#'s a week.


Ugh - too many options to look at on-line (Walmart.com). I picked
(completely arbitrary...) two different packagings of the same product.
That product is Original Savory Beef and Chicken. Don't know if that's what
you use, or how it compares to what you use. But - for $19.98, you can get
35 pounds of this stuff which should be enough to feed both the elderly
husband and wife, as well as the mutt. For $22.98, you can purchase 45
pounds of the same stuff. That's a lot more to keep the wife happy, not to
mention some tasty snacking while watching TV at night! The 16 pound
packaging is 10.98 - hell I could eat through that in just a couple nights
of watching TV.

So - at $10.08 for 16 lbs - $0.69 per pound
at $19.98 for 35 lbs - $0.57 per pound
at $22.98 for 45 lbs - $0.51 per pound

Maybe you are seeing some different packaging offers at your local Kroger
store, but the basic numbers prove out the bulk purchase advantage,
notwithstanding some manufacturer's special offering.

--

-Mike-



  #44   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 11:12:58 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
Maybe you are seeing some different packaging offers at your local Kroger
store, but the basic numbers prove out the bulk purchase advantage,
notwithstanding some manufacturer's special offering.



Where I get groceries (Cub Foods), the 16ox Land O Lakes 1% Cottage cheese is cheaper per ounce than the 22oz container. It's been this way as long as I've been checking. I just checked and it's the same thing at Byerly's ($2.99 vs $4.79).

Curiously, the 22oz looks like it should be twice the size of the 16oz, making the higher price look like a discount. I've found this with a number of other products over the years.
  #45   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 898
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:20:24 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me
was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol
There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new
choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.

I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the heat on
Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They can only sell
what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do that at some profit
level.


We'll see if they notice when I buy in bulk online and remove them both
from my radar.

I was just thinking today how the availability of credit, along with
poor judgement on the part of many consumers, has advanced car prices to
where they are today.


Don't forget government mandates.

Make people pay cash and see what happens! ; )


The cost of used cars will skyrocket and there will be more clunkers
on the road. Unless, of course, the Democrats come up with another
"cash for clunkers" clunker. ;-)

Is that a "silly" notion? If so, perhaps only because we have been
marketed to so much that we think a certain way?


Did you buy your car with cash? Your house?

Mike, It seems to me that the corps you are looking out for want an
"ever-increasing" profit level.


Or maintaining their position amonges higer costs. Are you saying
that you never want a salary increase again? Have you told your boss
that?

Is that fair to the person on a fixed income (basically spending "old

money")?


Certainly it's fair. Pay it, or not. It's entirely your choice.

Fair? What's that got to do with anything? Who's definition of
"fair"?


  #46   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,377
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com writes:
John McCoy wrote in
:


I'm with you on that one - and it's become epidemic in
the grocery stores, where almost everything now comes
in some odd size, like 14.7oz in a package that used to
hold 16oz, at the same or higher price.

There are some products, like Chobani yoghurt, that I
just don't buy any more because the small size is too
small to be useful.

John


I quit buying Hostess Ding Dongs many years ago after they made them


I quit buying them when I got old enough to understand
the difference between good food and cardboard :-)
  #47   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 898
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:46:01 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

I don't like the deception of the
smaller package though and I blame Hefty, not Lowes.


I'm with you on that one - and it's become epidemic in
the grocery stores, where almost everything now comes
in some odd size, like 14.7oz in a package that used to
hold 16oz, at the same or higher price.


....and there is a unit pricing sticker on the shelf right under the
box. ...and calculators can be had in the dollar store (or free on
your cell phone).

There are some products, like Chobani yoghurt, that I
just don't buy any more because the small size is too
small to be useful.

  #48   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,377
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:



Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive per
pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16# bags of dog
food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And that 30# bag
used to be 40#.


Do y'all have CostCo in texas?

(disclaimer, happy shareholder in COST)
  #50   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 898
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 15 Apr 2015 14:59:40 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

John McCoy wrote in
:


I'm with you on that one - and it's become epidemic in
the grocery stores, where almost everything now comes
in some odd size, like 14.7oz in a package that used to
hold 16oz, at the same or higher price.

There are some products, like Chobani yoghurt, that I
just don't buy any more because the small size is too
small to be useful.

John


I quit buying Hostess Ding Dongs many years ago after they made them
smaller. They used to be about the same size as hockey pucks (and we
called them "hockey pucks" for that reason), but now they're much closer
in size to the little plastic things that come with some mini-stick toys
instead of actual pucks.


But they're so much healthier now. Just read the nutrition label; far
fewer calories per serving! ;-)

Sometimes if you complain to the manufacturer, they'll actually take note
and possibly do something about it. (Often they'll just send you
coupons.) If enough people complain, they might make changes to the
product. Other times they just don't care.

They will care. The question is whether they care enough to do
anything about it. If people stopped buying, they would. ...but
people really don't want to do anything but bitch about prices.


  #51   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,377
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

"Mike Marlow" writes:
Leon wrote:


That is correct, BUT the retailer is not required or locked into a
fixed particular or specific profit margin. They can change that on
a whim. A retailer would be foolish to set everything at a specific
mark up and not tweak it on a routine basis. If you have a slow
mover you decrease the mark up, a fast mover you increase the mark
up. Ideally you want to keep the least amount of inventory such that
you do not run out of inventory before the next order arrives.


Yup - and for the most part, that is exactly what they do. That's one
component of how/why we see "specials" or discounted pricing in stores every
day.


Exactly, this is simply the manufacturer raising prices if the price
for "similar" sized product remains the same. Take a look at coffee.
You used to buy that by the pound, now by the 12 oz. bag.


But again - that's not a retailer's domain. That's the domain of the
"manufacturer". The retailer simply passes these new realities on to the
consumer.


However, a large enough retailer can certainly influence
the product mix provided by the manufacturer. WalMart, Borg,
Lowes, CostCo are all large enough to make custom packaging
economical for both the manuf and the retailer.
  #52   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,710
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

krw wrote:

They will care. The question is whether they care enough to do
anything about it. If people stopped buying, they would. ...but
people really don't want to do anything but bitch about prices.


Amen!

--

-Mike-



  #53   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 898
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:35:33 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/15/2015 10:12 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


That is correct, BUT the retailer is not required or locked into a
fixed particular or specific profit margin. They can change that on
a whim. A retailer would be foolish to set everything at a specific
mark up and not tweak it on a routine basis. If you have a slow
mover you decrease the mark up, a fast mover you increase the mark
up. Ideally you want to keep the least amount of inventory such that
you do not run out of inventory before the next order arrives.


Yup - and for the most part, that is exactly what they do. That's one
component of how/why we see "specials" or discounted pricing in stores every
day.


Exactly, this is simply the manufacturer raising prices if the price
for "similar" sized product remains the same. Take a look at coffee.
You used to buy that by the pound, now by the 12 oz. bag.


But again - that's not a retailer's domain. That's the domain of the
"manufacturer". The retailer simply passes these new realities on to the
consumer.


OR differences in gasoline prices from one block to the next within the
same brand. ;~) Ain't that right Lew.


groan
  #54   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,710
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

Scott Lurndal wrote:
"Mike Marlow" writes:
Leon wrote:


That is correct, BUT the retailer is not required or locked into a
fixed particular or specific profit margin. They can change that on
a whim. A retailer would be foolish to set everything at a specific
mark up and not tweak it on a routine basis. If you have a slow
mover you decrease the mark up, a fast mover you increase the mark
up. Ideally you want to keep the least amount of inventory such
that you do not run out of inventory before the next order arrives.


Yup - and for the most part, that is exactly what they do. That's
one component of how/why we see "specials" or discounted pricing in
stores every day.


Exactly, this is simply the manufacturer raising prices if the price
for "similar" sized product remains the same. Take a look at
coffee. You used to buy that by the pound, now by the 12 oz. bag.


But again - that's not a retailer's domain. That's the domain of the
"manufacturer". The retailer simply passes these new realities on
to the consumer.


However, a large enough retailer can certainly influence
the product mix provided by the manufacturer. WalMart, Borg,
Lowes, CostCo are all large enough to make custom packaging
economical for both the manuf and the retailer.


See an earlier post by me - they just do not do this much anymore - it did
not pay off for them. What you may find now is more of a retailer taking
advantage of a manufacturer's packaging deal - and that is not always
exclusive, but those are special deals and shortlived, usually. Walmar,
Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. do not typically specify manufacturing or even
unique model numbers anymore. Scan the UPC and compare the product across
multitudes of retailers. That's just the way it is.

--

-Mike-



  #55   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 898
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:40:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/15/2015 10:20 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On 15 Apr 2015 15:08:01 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure is
to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.


good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off

we don't care, we don't have to



This is true but they could also "not post the correct calculation per
oz or lb. to steer you towards what they want you to buy. I have seen
that. If it really matters to you it is best to make the calculations
yourself.


"They" can also be on the receiving end of huge fines.


  #56   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 898
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:36:01 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/15/2015 8:00 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr.E wrote:

Look at the mayonnaise jars- now 30 oz. instead of 32 oz.
Sauers just succumbed to this and I am looking at other brands for the
first time in years.
I quit Unilever over their "Just Mayonnaise" fiasco. No more
Lipton,Knorr or other Unilever for me.
If enough of us over react, this bs will not be acceptable.


That's the principle behind consumer driven markets but the problem is that
seldom (to the point of almsot never...) do consumers band together to
create enough of a force to drive things like this.



As long as consumers don't get into money used for entertainment and
sports they are not likely to worry about a few extra dollars for the
same product.


Except that *is* the money used for entertainment and such. I don't
know about you, but most people have a hierarchy of bills (roof over
head, food in belly, heat, lights, ..., garbage bags, ..., credit
cards..., then toys ;-). What's left over is the entertainment
budget. Save in any of the above and there's money left to play.
  #57   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 898
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 05:52:51 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:31:06 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again


I opened up the box to make sure
everything was there, and noticed the head didn't look right. I checked
further and found it doesn't have an MT2 taper anymore. Its got that stupid
fixed BT16 spindle taper instead. The one that is on the smaller cheaper
drill presses. Just to be double sure I looked at the manual. Yep. They
downgraded the unit a LOT and didn't lower the price.



What does that have to do with quality? They downgraded the features,
but that does not mean the quality of the product is affected at all.
You have the terms confused.

Quality has to do with tolerances, grades of material, proper
assembly.

What you have is a lesser featured product.

Also, don't be confused by a company that touts they are ISO9000
certified. That does not mean them make a good product. It meant if
they make a crappy product, they will all be equally crappy and they
have the process to assure it. .


+1

....and a process to produce an even crappier product in the future.
;-)
  #58   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,848
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

Scott Lurndal wrote:
"Mike Marlow" writes:


But again - that's not a retailer's domain. That's the domain of the
"manufacturer". The retailer simply passes these new realities on
to the consumer.


However, a large enough retailer can certainly influence
the product mix provided by the manufacturer. WalMart, Borg,
Lowes, CostCo are all large enough to make custom packaging
economical for both the manuf and the retailer.


Problem is, if they did go back to the "old" sizes, the price would have to
go up and people would bitch about that.

The REAL problem is the insidious, never ending inflation; i.e., the
devaluation of the dollar. They (gov, news, whoever) periodically strut
around because inflation only rose X% over X period of time. Well, any "X"
is too much in my book. I crave stability. I want to be able to know that
the asking price for something is a realistic price...if the price is in
line with what it was a year or a decade ago.

Naturally, I don't expect that to happen...the gov not only pushes more
dollars into the economy directly but there are also those (generally)
annual COL increases for the army of government workers; the more they get,
the more everyone wants as witness the recent pushes among the ability
and/or educationally challanged low wage workers for $15/hour gag.

The main reason is that the gov needs cheap dollars to pay off its monstrous
debt. Good for them, bad for everyone else.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net


  #59   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,848
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


We'll see if they notice when I buy in bulk online and remove them
both from my radar.


Probably not. If a very large number of people did that, then it
would be noticable, but not at the one-off level.


Mike, It seems to me that the corps you are looking out for want an
"ever-increasing" profit level.


I'm not looking out for them Bill - was just trying to point out what
I thought was an error in your plan. But - yes, they are always
looking to increase profits - or at least top line revenue.

Is that fair to the person on a fixed income (basically spending "old
money")?


That question can't be answered since it requires a subjective
response. Each of us may have differing thoughts on what is fair.


Of course it can be answered. The answer is, "No". Unfortunately, fairness
is not a factor.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net


  #60   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 783
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

wrote in message
...

Strange to me that people go to the cheapest tool store on the planet and
complain when they don't get the most extreme bargain available.


Isn't that the truth! LOL



  #62   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,848
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...


I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the
heat on Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They
can only sell what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do
that at some profit level.


Up to a point this is true. However, stores like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and other high volume stores often have products
packaged to their specs and labeling.


Yeah. Like a half dozen bolts in a little plastic bag.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net


  #63   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 783
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

"dadiOH" wrote in message ...

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...


I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the
heat on Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They
can only sell what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do
that at some profit level.


Up to a point this is true. However, stores like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and other high volume stores often have products
packaged to their specs and labeling.


Yeah. Like a half dozen bolts in a little plastic bag.


....and without mentioning that they also are a very low grade bolt or screw!
I've been sticking to a local hardware store for most of my fasteners as
they stock higher quality fasteners for the professionals to whom they
cater. The funny thing is that the better quality fasteners at the local
hardware store are often significantly less expensive than the poor quality
stuff at Home Depot and Lowe's. Home Depot and Lowe's have got to be making
a killing on fasteners!


  #64   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 783
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

As I said, "Up to a point this is true." Clearly it doesn't apply to every
product in the store...

The practice of large volume sellers having exclusive products, packaging
and labeling is still very much going on judging by items I've examined,
scanned and researched. This even goes for the lumber and sheet goods from
major manufacturers that have stickers placed on them at retailers like Home
Depot and Lowe's whereas the same product at the local lumber yard has no
stickers.

Another case in point: I've got an item recently purchased at Tractor Supply
that is product IDed on the manufacturer's web site as a TS only item and
the model number was modified to include a TS prefix. It varies ever so
slightly in the features from the comparable items sold elsewhere. However,
with new store opening discounts I got it for about 40% less than the
comparable offerings elsewhere... In this case that was about $450 in
savings, it was in stock in the store, and I had it home the same day. It
also had a feature that I valued over what was available elsewhere so that
made things even better.

This "customizing" goes on with firearms also with large wholesalers and
retailers specifying lower quality wood, or better quality wood, or
different sights, or different finishes than usual fare to hit price points
or to differentiate themselves in the market. The model number remains the
same but the product codes vary.

To be clear, I am not confusing white labeling or house labeling items with
manufacturer's brand labeling. The brand, and sometimes the model number,
shows up exactly as it would in any other store but the UPC and features
vary.



  #65   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,845
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 10:20:01 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 4/14/2015 10:20 PM, Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me
was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol
There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new
choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.
I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the heat on
Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They can only
sell
what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do that at some profit
level.


We'll see if they notice when I buy in bulk online and remove them both
from my radar.

I was just thinking today how the availability of credit, along with
poor judgement on the part of many consumers, has advanced car prices to
where they are today. Make people pay cash and see what happens! ; )
Is that a "silly" notion? If so, perhaps only because we have been
marketed to so much that we think a certain way?

Mike, It seems to me that the corps you are looking out for want an
"ever-increasing" profit level.

Is that fair to the person on a fixed income (basically spending "old
money")?



Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive per
pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16# bags of dog
food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And that 30# bag
used to be 40#.


This may be true in some cases, but I'd be willing to wager that in most cases, the price per pound/ounce/each etc. is lower for the larger size option. I always review the unit pricing label before making a selection to know for sure.

However, one also has to consider how a coupon can factor into this. In many cases, the use of a coupon can reduce the price of the smaller size option to a point where the unit pricing is lower than with the larger size. It all depends on the ratio of the coupon value to the price of the product.



  #66   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,584
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/14/2015 9:46 PM, Bill wrote:


Went to Lowes the other day to buy another box of Hefty 39-gallon 1.3
mil "Steel-Sak" garbage bags. From my records, I have observed these
price increases:

2009, $9.99
2010, $10.98
2011, $11.99
2015, $12.99

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged me was
when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in the box
instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged me...lol There
are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of them. My new choice is
unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.



Guys, this is NOT price increases.

This is inflation at work.

And it's about to skyrocket!


Who among us really believes or government can spend trillions of tax
dollars without this happening?


Fools

  #67   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 10:43 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 4/15/2015 10:08 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive
per pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16#
bags of dog food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And
that 30# bag used to be 40#.


Yep... It's one of the games they play. Sometimes buying the big
bag is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for
sure is to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

Puckdropper


BUT it could also be other factors. Especially when the lower pricing
is on the smaller quantity per lb. Risk of injury by stockers could
be a factor. Especially in these times of litigation litigation
litigation.


Having worked in retail, and had visibility into special offers, pricing,
etc., I would say that is probably not even a considersation. For the most
part, we're talking about items that are commodities which are well under
the weight requirements of the typical floor job. It's usually more a
reflection of an offer from the manufacturer who is trying different things
to drive sales. Some of those contradict their normal, baseline pricing
strategies. That's why they are limited time offers...


FWIW I controlled pricing my entire management career whether that was
retail or wholesale. I was always in a situation where the store was
very successful, so we were tweaking all prices. We, 25+ years ago,
based our pricing on some items as to whether they was easily handled in
all aspects. And that was long before computers were really being used
much to track those aspects of particular parts. While this very well
may not be the situation of the dog food package size, more and more
stores encourage you to get an employee to help lift those items and
often it is 2 employees that do this. That costs more.

As far as special purchasing incentives go that was on going for us and
that was seldom passed on the customer. It was more of an incentive to
help the manufacturer to lower his stock levels. If we, especially in
the automotive business, lowered pricing it was difficult to raise the
prices back up. So we simply slowed our inventory turns by stocking up
and increasing our gross profit. I vividly recall buying freon for
38 cents per pound in one pound containers back in the early 80's.
Bought straight from GM it was $1.50 something and doubled that for
retail pricing. Going from 38 cents to $3.00 something a pound was a
wonderful profit item. I typically ordered 2400 one pound cans each
spring to get us through the summer. The larger bottles were available
but they were heavy and not priced as well.


  #68   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 11:11 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Take a look at Kibbles N Bit in particular. Our Kroger store is more
expensive on the larger bags. We used to buy 40# bags for our Great
Dane and that changed to 32# then 30#. We much prefer buying 2, 16#
bags than the 30# bag even if it worked out to the same price. She
goes through about 10#'s a week.


Ugh - too many options to look at on-line (Walmart.com). I picked
(completely arbitrary...) two different packagings of the same product.
That product is Original Savory Beef and Chicken. Don't know if that's what
you use, or how it compares to what you use. But - for $19.98, you can get
35 pounds of this stuff which should be enough to feed both the elderly
husband and wife, as well as the mutt. For $22.98, you can purchase 45
pounds of the same stuff. That's a lot more to keep the wife happy, not to
mention some tasty snacking while watching TV at night! The 16 pound
packaging is 10.98 - hell I could eat through that in just a couple nights
of watching TV.

So - at $10.08 for 16 lbs - $0.69 per pound
at $19.98 for 35 lbs - $0.57 per pound
at $22.98 for 45 lbs - $0.51 per pound

Maybe you are seeing some different packaging offers at your local Kroger
store, but the basic numbers prove out the bulk purchase advantage,
notwithstanding some manufacturer's special offering.



If you are looking on line there could be several factors added. If the
product is shipped direct from the the company warehouse vs. shipped to
the store and stocked the pricing may make more sense. The on line
store is not handling the product as much as if you go to the store to
buy it so more for less makes sense.
  #69   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,350
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again


wrote:


snip
Now, the $15 an hour folks want the most menial jobs, the jobs with
the least skill level, the jobs that provided by employers that
suffer all those that come and go as first time employees to be paid
a "livable" wage. Regardless of their work history (if any), skill
level, employment history or lack thereof, an employer will be
required to pay almost double what they are paying now for minimum
wage employees.

snip
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a job has to be done, then it deserves a living wage to get it
done.

Not all entry level jobs are done by pimple faced kids looking for
some
pocket money.

Many of these people earning a minimum wage are trying to support
a family unit which isn't going to happen at $10/hr much less the
$7.50/hr
federal minimum wage.

If the $15/hour minimum wage gets enacted it will raise the standard
of living of the whole economy except for the top 1% which will be
asked to pay for it.

It's just Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" in reverse.

Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" have proven to be a disaster unless
you are in the top 1%.

A $15/hr minimum wage will help the economy recover from the TDE
of the last 30 years.

Off the box.

Lew


  #70   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 11:32 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:



Has anyone noticed how buying in larger quantities is more expensive per
pound than smaller quantities? We have noticed that "2" 16# bags of dog
food are less expensive than "1" 30# bag of dog food. And that 30# bag
used to be 40#.


Do y'all have CostCo in texas?

(disclaimer, happy shareholder in COST)



Yeah! we all do. ;~) How bout you's guys? ;~)


  #71   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,845
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 10:46:01 AM UTC-4, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Up to a point this is true. However, stores like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and other high volume stores often have products
packaged to their specs and labeling. In some cases items sold at those
stores vary slightly from what is available elsewhere and carry different
SKU numbers. The latter eliminates the problem of them having to price match
other stores as nobody else has that exact product and SKU.


That's shocking! I can't believe that any reputable company would play such games.

Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pro...58d6b3_400.jpg

Lowes:

http://images.lowes.com/product/conv...0375000419.jpg
  #72   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,845
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 11:10:20 AM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:31:06 -0700
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Fright 12 speed bench toppers would do the trick, so I started
hunting for a coupon or a sale. Finally I found an outfit that would
"sell" me a coupon for it for $5. Since it would save me $40 if it


I haven't looked at prices for benchtop drill presses
is there a wide range of prices
how much lower is 'harbor fright'

sounds like a series of fortunate events or are you not going to
get one at all now

I left the coupon on the box for the next guy.


coupon's only good for that tool?
what's the story with that


You've never heard of "product specific" coupons? Allow me to enlighten you...

http://origin-cdn.coupons.com/static...c/565919_2.gif
  #73   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 10:33 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
John Grossbohlin wrote:


Up to a point this is true. However, stores like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and other high volume stores often have products
packaged to their specs and labeling.


This used to be more true 20 years ago than it is today. Today, it is not
practical to do this across a wide span of products, and one could almost
say, it is seldom done on common branded items. In the case of Bill's
original comment - it is absolutley not the kind of thing the retailer has
any influence over.


Can't say I agree here. The store specific difference in a product is
"very often" simply a part number change. Most advertizements, at least
down here, will match pricing on exact same item. The part/stock/item
number is the item of reference to determine exactly the same. A part
number is easily changed.


It will come as a surprise to many, just how few things
you will find at Home Depot or Lowe's are in any way specifically designed,
built, or even packaged exclusively for them.


Where else can you buy Bear paint, Husky tools, Cobalt tools? Ridgid
tools, Ryobi yard tools except maybe being sold. I suspect that these
items are made by other manufacturers. Take Kenmore appliances too,
almost all are built by 4 or 5 name brand manufacturers.



It's just too expensive to do
that. Different retailers may opt for special offers from manufacturers,
and on a special packaging offer basis, may even gain exclusivity, but that
is different from the base product being uniquely designed to their
specification. So - I absolutely contradict your statement that they "often
have products packaged to their specs and labeling". That is different from
White Labeling - so don't confuse the two. In the world of standard
labeling, this is just not very true anymore. Has not been for quite a
while.


In some cases items sold at
those stores vary slightly from what is available elsewhere and carry
different SKU numbers.


Used to be that way - not so much at all anymore. Time to go back out to
the stores and try some tests... Show me the Hefty bags that Bill spoke of
that are marketed under different UPC codes across different stores? SKU's
have no meaning in this - a SKU is specific to the retailer, not the
product. SKU is simply an inventory management practice, and as such is
unique to the retailer. No two retailers will ever use the same SKU - on
any product.


The latter eliminates the problem of them
having to price match other stores as nobody else has that exact
product and SKU.


Completely wrong. Take your cell phone in with a UPC app loaded on it and
scan the same product at any one of a hundredd different retailers - it will
scan the same information for you. It is not about SKU. SKU is purely a
retailer specific identifier - has nothing at all to do with the product
from the manufacturer's perspective. In short - SKU is completely
irrelevant.

Even much smaller and more specialized Tractor
Supply has items customized to their specs and they carry unique "TS"
model numbers.


They may - that is indeed possible, but fewer and fewer retailers waste
their time doing that anymore - it just did not pay off. You will find, if
you actually look at UPC codes, that even Tractor Supply does not do this as
much as you may think. Don't confuse this with White Labeling or Private
Labeling - that's a similar, but different matter. It's usually quite easy
to find proper comparisons even with this technique though.



  #74   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 12:23 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message ...

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...


I understand most of your sentiment Bill, but I wouldn't put the
heat on Lowe's. They're just a retailer - not a manufacturer. They
can only sell what the manufacturer produces - and they have to do
that at some profit level.


Up to a point this is true. However, stores like Home Depot, Lowes,
Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and other high volume stores often have products
packaged to their specs and labeling.


Yeah. Like a half dozen bolts in a little plastic bag.


...and without mentioning that they also are a very low grade bolt or
screw! I've been sticking to a local hardware store for most of my
fasteners as they stock higher quality fasteners for the professionals
to whom they cater. The funny thing is that the better quality fasteners
at the local hardware store are often significantly less expensive than
the poor quality stuff at Home Depot and Lowe's. Home Depot and Lowe's
have got to be making a killing on fasteners!


Probably making a killing on the ones that they actually sell but I have
to suspect a large quantity of these loose items are walking out the
door. I suspect that the cheap and loose NB&F are a PIA necessity.
  #75   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 11:48 AM, krw wrote:
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:36:01 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/15/2015 8:00 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mr.E wrote:

Look at the mayonnaise jars- now 30 oz. instead of 32 oz.
Sauers just succumbed to this and I am looking at other brands for the
first time in years.
I quit Unilever over their "Just Mayonnaise" fiasco. No more
Lipton,Knorr or other Unilever for me.
If enough of us over react, this bs will not be acceptable.

That's the principle behind consumer driven markets but the problem is that
seldom (to the point of almsot never...) do consumers band together to
create enough of a force to drive things like this.



As long as consumers don't get into money used for entertainment and
sports they are not likely to worry about a few extra dollars for the
same product.


Except that *is* the money used for entertainment and such. I don't
know about you, but most people have a hierarchy of bills (roof over
head, food in belly, heat, lights, ..., garbage bags, ..., credit
cards..., then toys ;-). What's left over is the entertainment
budget. Save in any of the above and there's money left to play.

Well that is how you and I think but is a sad statement that most people
pay for their fun before their necessities.


  #76   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 10:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/14/15 11:45 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:

Went to Lowes the other day to buy another box of Hefty 39-gallon
1.3 mil "Steel-Sak" garbage bags. From my records, I have observed
these price increases:

2009, $9.99 2010, $10.98 2011, $11.99 2015, $12.99

The price increase didn't bug me that much this year. What bugged
me was when I got home I found out there are now only 28 bags in
the box instead of 30! Along with the price increase, it bugged
me...lol There are cheaper options, and will be choosing one of
them. My new choice is unlikely to involve either Lowes or Hefty.

---------------------------------------------------------- Been to
the supermarket lately.

The favorite way for retail consumer products to get a price
increase is to maintain the package size while reducing the quantity
of the product in the package.

As examples a half gallon size (64 oz) box of ice cream is now 56
oz, and a 5 oz box of Irish Spring bath soap is now 3.75 oz but the
box sizes for these items have remained constant.

Lew


Aren't these things clearly marked on the packaging?
You guys are acting like they're trying to pull on over on you.

You can see the price and the quantity or weight or volume clearly
marked on the labels. You're not stupid cows sauntering over to a feed
trough ever day gulping down whatever was shoveled into it.


Keep in mind that label details are not always correct. The pricing is,
but not always the price per oz. or lb.
I see that every time I take the time to check those labels.

  #77   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,845
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 12:41:48 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
Scott Lurndal wrote:
"Mike Marlow" writes:
Leon wrote:


That is correct, BUT the retailer is not required or locked into a
fixed particular or specific profit margin. They can change that on
a whim. A retailer would be foolish to set everything at a specific
mark up and not tweak it on a routine basis. If you have a slow
mover you decrease the mark up, a fast mover you increase the mark
up. Ideally you want to keep the least amount of inventory such
that you do not run out of inventory before the next order arrives.


Yup - and for the most part, that is exactly what they do. That's
one component of how/why we see "specials" or discounted pricing in
stores every day.


Exactly, this is simply the manufacturer raising prices if the price
for "similar" sized product remains the same. Take a look at
coffee. You used to buy that by the pound, now by the 12 oz. bag.


But again - that's not a retailer's domain. That's the domain of the
"manufacturer". The retailer simply passes these new realities on
to the consumer.


However, a large enough retailer can certainly influence
the product mix provided by the manufacturer. WalMart, Borg,
Lowes, CostCo are all large enough to make custom packaging
economical for both the manuf and the retailer.


See an earlier post by me - they just do not do this much anymore - it did
not pay off for them. What you may find now is more of a retailer taking
advantage of a manufacturer's packaging deal - and that is not always
exclusive, but those are special deals and shortlived, usually. Walmar,
Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. do not typically specify manufacturing or even
unique model numbers anymore. Scan the UPC and compare the product across
multitudes of retailers. That's just the way it is.

--

-Mike-


I'm not saying it's still a wide spread practice, but take a look at the InSinkErator line of garbage disposals at Home Depot vs. Lowes.

You will be hard pressed to find a matching model between the 2 stores. You can compare the specs and find exact matches, but the model number and/or name - sometimes even the color - will be different.

As far as InSinkErator is concerned, this practice has been going on for years at these 2 stores.
  #78   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 10:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


OR differences in gasoline prices from one block to the next within
the same brand. ;~) Ain't that right Lew.


You woke up with a little tickle up yer butt, didn't you?


That's it!
  #79   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 10:41 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 4/15/15 10:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/15/2015 10:20 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On 15 Apr 2015 15:08:01 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure is
to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off

we don't care, we don't have to



This is true but they could also "not post the correct calculation per
oz or lb. to steer you towards what they want you to buy. I have seen
that. If it really matters to you it is best to make the calculations
yourself.


That would require people to know basic math.
They don't teach that anymore. :-)


Eggsactly! Whole Foods uses electronic labels but then the operator has
to have a basic computer skill.
  #80   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,155
Default Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again

On 4/15/2015 10:49 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 4/15/15 10:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 4/15/2015 10:20 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
On 15 Apr 2015 15:08:01 GMT
Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

is cheaper and sometimes it's not. The only way to know for sure
is to pull out the calculator and crunch some numbers.

good stores show cost/ounce right there

i have asked several times at one store why they have no cost/unit
shrugged me off

we don't care, we don't have to


This is true but they could also "not post the correct calculation
per oz or lb. to steer you towards what they want you to buy. I
have seen that. If it really matters to you it is best to make the
calculations yourself.


That would require people to know basic math.
They don't teach that anymore. :-)


No - but those people do have their trophy, or their certificate of
accomplishment which shows... ummmm...well, something, and now they are
well prepared members of society.



;~)

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Harbor Fright Down Grades Quality Again Bob La Londe[_7_] Metalworking 8 April 15th 15 10:26 PM
Harbor Fright VS Woodcraft Bob La Londe[_7_] Woodworking 5 November 28th 14 01:10 AM
Harbor Fright Drill Press Bob La Londe[_4_] Metalworking 27 November 3rd 10 04:43 PM
More 20% Harbor Fright coupons [email protected] Home Repair 1 December 18th 09 02:11 PM
Harbor Fright - Are you just a cheapskate? Tool Snob? Teamcasa Woodworking 46 April 14th 06 10:32 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"