http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBase...Jig/index.html

Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when drilling
at this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay aligned. There
was an obvious twist on the corner joint.

"Leon" wrote in message
...

http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBase...Jig/index.html

Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when drilling at
this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay aligned. There was an
obvious twist on the corner joint.

There were a number of problems... the warped center stile for one. Also it
appears that either one or both of the rails on the top and bottom appeared
to be warped too. I'll give Ernie the benefit of the doubt on the length of
the outside stiles... his process may include flushing the ends and squaring
the door after it's assembled.

I suspect the warped parts contributed to the alignment problem...

That said, the lack of panels suggests this was strictly a demo for pocket
screws!

John

"Leon" wrote:

http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBase...Jig/index.html

Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when
drilling at this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay
aligned. There was an obvious twist on the corner joint.
--------------------------------------------------------
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

There were a number of problems... the warped center stile for one.
Also it appears that either one or both of the rails on the top and
bottom appeared to be warped too. I'll give Ernie the benefit of the
doubt on the length of the outside stiles... his process may include
flushing the ends and squaring the door after it's assembled.

I suspect the warped parts contributed to the alignment problem...

That said, the lack of panels suggests this was strictly a demo for
pocket screws!
---------------------------------------------------------
Doubt you will ever see pocket screws in a marine application.

Salt air will get the screws even though it may take a couple of
years.

Lew

Leon wrote:
http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBase...Jig/index.html

Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when drilling
at this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay aligned. There was
an obvious twist on the corner joint.

Little help here Leon - where did you see the twist? I looked at it twice
(once in full screen) but I couldn't see that.

--

-Mike-

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Doubt you will ever see pocket screws in a marine application.

Salt air will get the screws even though it may take a couple of
years.


Yeahbut most people building things for their homes aren't concerned for
marine applications - unless of course, they live on a houseboat...

--

-Mike-

On 1/14/15 4:46 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Doubt you will ever see pocket screws in a marine application.

Salt air will get the screws even though it may take a couple of
years.


Yeahbut most people building things for their homes aren't concerned for
marine applications - unless of course, they live on a houseboat...


http://www.kregtool.com/store/c20/kreg-jigreg-screws/p302/stainless-steel-pocket-hole-screws/


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 1/14/2015 3:36 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...

http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBase...Jig/index.html

Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when drilling
at this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay aligned.
There was an obvious twist on the corner joint.

There were a number of problems... the warped center stile for one. Also
it appears that either one or both of the rails on the top and bottom
appeared to be warped too. I'll give Ernie the benefit of the doubt on
the length of the outside stiles... his process may include flushing the
ends and squaring the door after it's assembled.

I suspect the warped parts contributed to the alignment problem...

That said, the lack of panels suggests this was strictly a demo for
pocket screws!

John

Absolutely a demo however the rail and stile did not end up on the same
plane, the rail was twisted. I think that this indicates that the jig
does not sufficiently keep both pieces flat against the work surface.
Warped material or not with the Kreg set up and pivoting clamps surfaces
you can clamp the joint so that there is no movement. This jig is a
jack of all trades but a master at none, it would appear. Good idea
with perfect wood but perfect wood is rare.

On 1/14/2015 4:44 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:
http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBase...Jig/index.html

Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when drilling
at this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay aligned. There was
an obvious twist on the corner joint.

Little help here Leon - where did you see the twist? I looked at it twice
(once in full screen) but I couldn't see that.



I saw the twist of the rail during and at the very end. Just at the
end, 5:31 and pause. Take a look at both left and right rails where
they attach to the stiles. The left one is either not closed or is
offset. The right one is twisted a few degrees at 4:55.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Doubt you will ever see pocket screws in a marine application.

Salt air will get the screws even though it may take a couple of
years.
----------------------------------------
"-MIKE-" wrote:

http://www.kregtool.com/store/c20/kreg-jigreg-screws/p302/stainless-steel-pocket-hole-screws/

---------------------------------------------------
Prices are reasonable.

Couldn't find specs but most likely 304, not 316L.

By definition, stainless translates into "stain less", not
"stainless".

Lew

On 1/14/2015 6:35 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Doubt you will ever see pocket screws in a marine application.

Salt air will get the screws even though it may take a couple of
years.
----------------------------------------
"-MIKE-" wrote:

http://www.kregtool.com/store/c20/kreg-jigreg-screws/p302/stainless-steel-pocket-hole-screws/

---------------------------------------------------
Prices are reasonable.

Couldn't find specs but most likely 304, not 316L.

By definition, stainless translates into "stain less", not
"stainless".

Lew


Hard to say here, it would be interesting to find out. One would
perhaps falsely assume that since Kreg is selling SS it would be of the
grades that don't rust. They do offer other screws that are made for
outdoor use.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Doubt you will ever see pocket screws in a marine application.

Salt air will get the screws even though it may take a couple of
years.
----------------------------------------
"-MIKE-" wrote:

http://www.kregtool.com/store/c20/kreg-jigreg-screws/p302/stainless-steel-pocket-hole-screws/

---------------------------------------------------

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Prices are reasonable.

Couldn't find specs but most likely 304, not 316L.

By definition, stainless translates into "stain less", not
"stainless".

Lew
-------------------------------------------------------

"Leon" wrote:

Hard to say here, it would be interesting to find out. One would
perhaps falsely assume that since Kreg is selling SS it would be of
the grades that don't rust. They do offer other screws that are
made for outdoor use.
--------------------------------------------------------
Couple of points.

Jamestown Distributors is just about the most inclusive marine
chandlery in the USA.

They don't stock Kreg anything.

If you truly need corrosion resistant, then go bronze.

Brass is also worthless in a marine enviroment since the tin will
leach out leaving a pitted copper structure.

For many marine applications as well as kitchen pots, pans and
cutlery, stainless (304 and 316) are about the only choices.

Lew

On 1/14/2015 7:14 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Doubt you will ever see pocket screws in a marine application.

Salt air will get the screws even though it may take a couple of
years.
----------------------------------------
"-MIKE-" wrote:

http://www.kregtool.com/store/c20/kreg-jigreg-screws/p302/stainless-steel-pocket-hole-screws/

---------------------------------------------------

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Prices are reasonable.

Couldn't find specs but most likely 304, not 316L.

By definition, stainless translates into "stain less", not
"stainless".

Lew
-------------------------------------------------------

"Leon" wrote:

Hard to say here, it would be interesting to find out. One would
perhaps falsely assume that since Kreg is selling SS it would be of
the grades that don't rust. They do offer other screws that are
made for outdoor use.
--------------------------------------------------------
Couple of points.

Jamestown Distributors is just about the most inclusive marine
chandlery in the USA.

They don't stock Kreg anything.

If you truly need corrosion resistant, then go bronze.

Brass is also worthless in a marine enviroment since the tin will
leach out leaving a pitted copper structure.

For many marine applications as well as kitchen pots, pans and
cutlery, stainless (304 and 316) are about the only choices.

Lew



I nave sent them an e-mail inquiring about their stainless steel screws.

In the mean time here is what they have to say.

Kreg Stainless Screws are specially designed for maritime applications,
excessive exposure to water, and other exceedingly corrosive
environments, such as ACQ-treated lumber. If you’re looking for the best
in rust-prevention, this is your solution. All Stainless Screws are #10.

"Leon" wrote:




I nave sent them an e-mail inquiring about their stainless steel
screws.

In the mean time here is what they have to say.

Kreg Stainless Screws are specially designed for maritime
applications, excessive exposure to water, and other exceedingly
corrosive environments, such as ACQ-treated lumber. If you’re
looking for the best in rust-prevention, this is your solution. All
Stainless Screws are #10.
---------------------------------------------------------
"And we've got some clean low mileage northern cars in our other lot",
said
the used car dealer in Tampa.G

Lew

On 1/14/2015 3:30 PM, Leon wrote:
http://ezine.woodworking.com/JigBase...Jig/index.html

Notice on the video how long it takes to drill the holes when drilling
at this angle and also notice how the pieces don't stay aligned. There
was an obvious twist on the corner joint.

I have the Kreg Jr. jig; the one that is basically the drill guide
alone. You need to clamp it to the work with a separate clamp. I have
used the Kreg face clamp and the Kreg AutoMax clamps for both the
drilling and for holding the pieces while driving the screws. I also
jury-rigged a jig on my bench vise when I had many face frame pieces to
drill:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...ream/lightbox/

(The small 1x2 block shows where the actual 1x2 work pieces would go)

I have found that in both operations - drilling and driving the screws -
tight clamping is essential. When drilling, the rotation of the bit will
cause the work piece to move laterally if it is not firmly held in
place. This problem is made more likely if you don't have the drill up
to speed before it touches the wood.

You have to be even more careful when driving the screws. The screw's
motion creates a *strong* tendency to twist or shift the pieces out of
alignment. I got a couple of the Rockler "Pock-It" clamps at a deep
discount, which looked like they would hold the pieces together and keep
them flush at the same time.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1013/lightbox/

I have not found them to be adequate. Holding the piece "off center" as
these clamps do does not give adequate protection against twisting. I do
still use them, but add a face clamp as well:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...ream/lightbox/

And I make the face clamps *tight*. I can't overemphasize this. The
pieces will shift given the smallest freedom to do so.

Sometimes I take the "suspenders and a belt ...and more suspenders"
approach:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...4446/lightbox/

I've now used pocket screws on a number of projects, several times for
face frames as in the video. I can say that I'm not surprised that the
clamping shown in the video was (evidently) inadequate.

I usually preface any "advice" like this by mentioning my relative lack
of experience; I don't want to pretend to have expertise. But I don't
think I'm using the system incorrectly; it seems to be simply the nature
of the beast.


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 1/14/2015 8:04 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Leon" wrote:




I nave sent them an e-mail inquiring about their stainless steel
screws.

In the mean time here is what they have to say.

Kreg Stainless Screws are specially designed for maritime
applications, excessive exposure to water, and other exceedingly
corrosive environments, such as ACQ-treated lumber. If you’re
looking for the best in rust-prevention, this is your solution. All
Stainless Screws are #10.
---------------------------------------------------------
"And we've got some clean low mileage northern cars in our other lot",
said
the used car dealer in Tampa.G

Lew



And the answer is! Kreg uses .305 SS in for their screws.

"Leon" wrote:

I nave sent them an e-mail inquiring about their stainless steel
screws.

And the answer is! Kreg uses .305 SS in for their screws.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Which is basically the same as 304 except better suited to drawing
which makes sense for fasteners, but it's still not very good for
marine applications.

Lew

On 1/15/2015 12:25 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Leon" wrote:

I nave sent them an e-mail inquiring about their stainless steel
screws.

And the answer is! Kreg uses .305 SS in for their screws.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Which is basically the same as 304 except better suited to drawing
which makes sense for fasteners, but it's still not very good for
marine applications.

Lew



Yep, which makes Kreg liable for failures if they are saying it is
marine grade.

Nice law suit waiting. A-holes.

I have a grudge against Kreg for what they did to the extruded aluminum
they bought. At the shows it was like $25 for the fence 90 degree
extrusion. They bought the rights and it was then the next year like $90
and had to be bought with their band saw fence if I remember the numbers
correctly.

--
Jeff