While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a law firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed injuries such as missing digits and nasty cuts with many stitches...the narrative from a pretty blonde that said manufacturers did not want you to know there were preventative measures available and these saw companies could be held accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw I am aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be just me but it seems like a suitable comparison would be going after an automaker that did not provide airbags before they were required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have seen this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a small price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device was made and sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish I had a lot of new tools.

On 5/6/2014 9:51 PM, BillinGA wrote:
While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a law firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed injuries such as missing digits and nasty cuts with many stitches...the narrative from a pretty blonde that said manufacturers did not want you to know there were preventative measures available and these saw companies could be held accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw I am aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be just me but it seems like a suitable comparison would be going after an automaker that did not provide airbags before they were required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have seen this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a small price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device w
as made and sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish I had a lot of new tools.


It is my opinion that the only device that will totally prevent injuries
is the blob that sits in the middle of your shoulder. Even with the
latest technology there will be accidents. To paraphrase Smokey the
Bear. "Only you can prevent accidents."

A great example of this is the automobile. If you look at the last 50
years, and look at all of the safety items placed on autos, there should
be no accidents or deaths today, or at least it should be less that
0.000001%

Every campaign to add some safety device to an auto said it would lower
the death/accident rate by 10% With the hundreds of items added there
are essentially no death/accident.

It does not matter what you do to a device to make it safe there will
always be someone who figures out a way to use it to create an injury or
death.

Have I ever been hurt on a table saw? Yes I did something absolutely
stupid and then followed up with some as stupid to correct the problem.

I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
mistake was to set the out-feed feather board to the width that I wanted
to cut, not the to the width of the board I was cutting.

The second stupid mistake was to try to readjust without turning the saw
off

Fortunately it only slice the end of the finger, and I lost nothing
physical. It would have been significantly different if I had not made
the rest of the set up with safety in mind.

On Wed, 07 May 2014 07:19:01 -0400, knuttle
Every campaign to add some safety device to an auto said it would lower
the death/accident rate by 10% With the hundreds of items added there
are essentially no death/accident.

I'd suggest you're reading it wrong. A seatbelt for example, would
lower the death rate well more than 10% from being thrown out of the
vehicle or flattening onto the steering wheel. A side air would lower
death and injury from being broadsided. No safety device is going to
lower all types of injuries. But, it's shear lunacy to suggest that
most safety devices are a waste of time. Hell, a brake light is a
safety device. Are you claiming they're a useless safety addition?

Just like your safety equipped tablesaw which isn't going to eliminate
all injuries, but it has an excellent chance of eliminating the most
common serious injury.

knuttle wrote in
:

*snip*

Have I ever been hurt on a table saw? Yes I did something absolutely
stupid and then followed up with some as stupid to correct the
problem.

I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
mistake was to set the out-feed feather board to the width that I
wanted to cut, not the to the width of the board I was cutting.

The second stupid mistake was to try to readjust without turning the
saw off

Fortunately it only slice the end of the finger, and I lost nothing
physical. It would have been significantly different if I had not
made the rest of the set up with safety in mind.

Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be
looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to
completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?

I realize there's a large number of possible scenarios, but let's focus
on just a few:
1. A large workpiece (like plywood) completely covers access to the
switch, so shutting the saw off mid-cut requires ducking under it.
2. A long workpiece begins to close on the blade, requiring reaching over
the piece to hit the switch. (Avoidance would include using a
splitter/riving knife and not placing the work between you and the
switch.)
3. A feather board is set improperly and will not allow the work to pass.
The error is not realized until after the work has been introduced to the
blade.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"BillinGA" wrote in message
...

While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a law firm
going after table saw manufacturers. They showed injuries such as missing
digits and nasty cuts with many stitches...the narrative from a pretty
blonde that said manufacturers did not want you to know there were
preventative measures available and these saw companies could be held
accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw I am
aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be just me but it
seems like a suitable comparison would be going after an automaker that
did not provide airbags before they were required by law. I guess miter
saws are next. Should have seen this coming when McDonalds was
successfully sued for selling hot coffee. I am aware of the argument that a
brake cartridge is a small price to pay for safety but wonder if other
woodworkers don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the
responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device was made and
sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish I had a lot of
new tools.

Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if they enjoy
success there other power tools will join the party. In the future I can
see:

A lock-out device on table saws that will not allow them to start if there
is no fence or miter gauge installed (the flooring guys would hate that and
other fixtures would be a problem without corresponding sensors (e.g.,
sleds, tenonning jigs)).
A lock-out device on drill presses such that if the work is not clamped down
the drill press will not start (I'd be surprised if anyone "always" clamps
the work down).
A lock-out device on bandsaws such that if the space between the upper blade
guide and the wood exceeds say 1/4" the saw will not start.
A laser activated kill switch with brake on jointers if your hands get
within say 3" of the knives (a brake on a fly wheel like a chainsaw...
non-destructive unlike SawStop).
Etc.
I'm sure we can all think of various tools and "dangerous" operator
practices that could be technologized to make them "safe," and thus become
retro-active targets for the lawyers.

I'd think chainsaws would be the most dangerous power tool out there...
perhaps the day will come that a mandatory training and certification class
is required to buy or operate one... YouTube is full of good examples of
bad practices and older saws that lack all the "modern" safety devices could
be easy targets.

Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

On 5/7/2014 10:01 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
knuttle wrote in
:

*snip*

Have I ever been hurt on a table saw? Yes I did something absolutely
stupid and then followed up with some as stupid to correct the
problem.

I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
mistake was to set the out-feed feather board to the width that I
wanted to cut, not the to the width of the board I was cutting.

The second stupid mistake was to try to readjust without turning the
saw off

Fortunately it only slice the end of the finger, and I lost nothing
physical. It would have been significantly different if I had not
made the rest of the set up with safety in mind.

Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be
looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to
completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?

I realize there's a large number of possible scenarios, but let's focus
on just a few:
1. A large workpiece (like plywood) completely covers access to the
switch, so shutting the saw off mid-cut requires ducking under it.
2. A long workpiece begins to close on the blade, requiring reaching over
the piece to hit the switch. (Avoidance would include using a
splitter/riving knife and not placing the work between you and the
switch.)
3. A feather board is set improperly and will not allow the work to pass.
The error is not realized until after the work has been introduced to the
blade.

Puckdropper

All of those are resolvable by making one of those PVC frames that allow
you to hit it with your foot from anywhere and shut the saw.

But that leaves you unbalanced.
It may wind up getting hit inadvertently while passing a piece through
making the second start up dangerous.

--
Jeff

John Grossbohlin wrote:


Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

Preach it brother!

--

-Mike-

On 5/7/2014 9:01 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
knuttle wrote in
:

*snip*

Have I ever been hurt on a table saw? Yes I did something absolutely
stupid and then followed up with some as stupid to correct the
problem.

I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
mistake was to set the out-feed feather board to the width that I
wanted to cut, not the to the width of the board I was cutting.

The second stupid mistake was to try to readjust without turning the
saw off

Fortunately it only slice the end of the finger, and I lost nothing
physical. It would have been significantly different if I had not
made the rest of the set up with safety in mind.

Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be
looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to
completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?

Stop all movement and then try to shut off the saw with out moving the work.


I realize there's a large number of possible scenarios, but let's focus
on just a few:
1. A large workpiece (like plywood) completely covers access to the
switch, so shutting the saw off mid-cut requires ducking under it.

Full 3/4" sheets I try to break up with my track saw or have my wife on
hand to turn the TS on and off and to help me keep the edge against the
fence. Typically the work is too heavy to cause a serious kickback
should you bind the blade. the blase most often creates a burned wider
kerf. IME the small pieces are the ones that can cause the most harm.




2. A long workpiece begins to close on the blade, requiring reaching over
the piece to hit the switch. (Avoidance would include using a
splitter/riving knife and not placing the work between you and the
switch.)

Not sure what you are describing here but typically the switch is on the
left side of the blade. The work is always between me and the fence.

Some thing to consider about the safest place to be during a cut. I
know a lot of people that want to use the fence to help protect so they
stand with the fence between them and the work. IMHO it is far better
to stand in a position that affords you maximum control over the cut vs
one that may not necessarily be ad protective as you think.

If the board takes flight no where is necessarily a safe place to be.



3. A feather board is set improperly and will not allow the work to pass.
The error is not realized until after the work has been introduced to the
blade.

You need to plan your feather board placement better. The feather board
should not allow a start of a cut at all if properly placed, meaning the
feather board is always in front of the blade.

On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...


I believe that sentence should stop there.
Out-feed feather boards are dangerous, period.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"John Grossbohlin" writes:


Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if they enjoy
success there other power tools will join the party. In the future I can
see:


Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

Um, it's the lawyers pushing this (and their former lawyer colleagues
in various public offices), not the "state".

Regardless, it's all pretty silly, and nobody is talking about banning
all the power tools on the secondary market, are they?

Just look at all the houston-based law-firms advertising class action
suits on TV (asbestos, birth control pills, vaginal mesh, ad infinitum).
Quite bothersome and a good reason to have a Tivo or equivalent that allows
commercial skipping.

The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
class actions.

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message ...

"John Grossbohlin" writes:


Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if they
enjoy
success there other power tools will join the party. In the future I can
see:


Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

Um, it's the lawyers pushing this (and their former lawyer colleagues
in various public offices), not the "state".

The problem is the legal challenges eventually turn into laws or
bureaucratic regulations.... OSHA, CPSC...

-MIKE- wrote:
On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...


I believe that sentence should stop there.
Out-feed feather boards are dangerous, period.

Repeat -... period!

--

-Mike-

Scott Lurndal wrote:
"John Grossbohlin" writes:


Table saws could be the nose under the tent for the lawyers... if
they enjoy success there other power tools will join the party. In
the future I can see:


Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

Um, it's the lawyers pushing this (and their former lawyer colleagues
in various public offices), not the "state".


As I understand it, the term "the mommy state" does not refer to the state
as much as it does both the politicians and the legal industry that plays on
the emotions of the moms of the world. Those moms become a faction, or a
force, or a movement that the politicians and lawyers leverage for their own
selfish desires.

Regardless, it's all pretty silly, and nobody is talking about banning
all the power tools on the secondary market, are they?


Nope.


The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
class actions.

Oh quit yer cryin'. You wanna see bad, come on up to NY...

--

-Mike-

On 5/7/2014 9:38 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Ugh... the Mommy State is to be dreaded...

Witness the current texting/driving issue. Idiots feel safer when in
their padded, mobile cocoon; and when people feel safer they take more
chances, so the total level of actual safety remains relatively constant.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/7/2014 10:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
class actions.

Bzzzt ...

"United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas"

This is a FEDERAL court overseen by a FEDERAL judge, not a TEXAS court.

The Feds are the ones who ****ed up the patent system to start with.

.... and that's "Texas", with a capital "T"!

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/7/2014 10:29 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first stupid
mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...


I believe that sentence should stop there.
Out-feed feather boards are dangerous, period.




Actually there is an instance when they are quite useful, If you are
plowing a grove and or not making a through cut.

I do this all the time when cutting groves for drawer bottoms.

Anything "through" should not have an out feed feather board.



And I sit here typing this while listening to the flooring guys cutting
the hickory wood treads for our stairs using a bench top Skil TS with
out benefit of miter gauge or rip fence. They have insurance.

On 5/7/14, 11:53 AM, Leon wrote:
On 5/7/2014 10:29 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first
stupid mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...


I believe that sentence should stop there. Out-feed feather boards
are dangerous, period.




Actually there is an instance when they are quite useful, If you are
plowing a grove and or not making a through cut.

I do this all the time when cutting groves for drawer bottoms.

Anything "through" should not have an out feed feather board.


Yes, of course. That was the context of the conversation... he said
ripping.



And I sit here typing this while listening to the flooring guys
cutting the hickory wood treads for our stairs using a bench top Skil
TS with out benefit of miter gauge or rip fence. They have
insurance.


I believe those thing are responsible for probably 90% of TS accidents.
I was helping a friend finish out his studio space and his other friend
was doing most of the work with his own power tools. He had one of
those Skils, which should never be referred to as table saws... they are
so freakin tiny. Anyway, no guard, no miter gauge, no splitter, and the
thing was sitting directly on a smooth concrete floor. I made one cut
on the thing while experiencing an instant cold sweat and that was my
last cut with it. I refused to do any more.

I told my friend that this guy was going to hurt himself, not a matter
of if, but when.
He called me about 6 months later to say the guy was in the hospital
recovering from reconstructive surgery on his hand.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Swingman writes:
On 5/7/2014 10:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
class actions.

Bzzzt ...

"United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas"

This is a FEDERAL court overseen by a FEDERAL judge, not a TEXAS court.

The Feds are the ones who ****ed up the patent system to start with.

... and that's "Texas", with a capital "T"!

Surely they don't import the jurors, who decide the case, from outside
the eastern district of texas?

On 5/7/14, 12:22 PM, Baxter wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in
news:lkdm0i$b7h$1 @dont-email.me:

-MIKE- wrote:
On 5/7/14, 6:19 AM, knuttle wrote:
I was ripping a piece of 1X4 to fit under a mirror. My first
stupid mistake was to set the out-feed feather board ...


I believe that sentence should stop there. Out-feed feather
boards are dangerous, period.

Repeat -... period!

I don't think that's the case - I find a featherboard mounted
vertically on the fence works fine on outfeed. Featherboard
equivalents mounted on riving knife are common. etc.

Mounting featherboard horizontally on saw table at outfeed is asking
for trouble/injury.


Can we please read the entire posts in a thread and make sure we
understand the context before replying? I know it's a lot to ask. The
guy said he was setting it to the width. That's not vertical.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Wed, 07 May 2014 14:01:03 +0000, Puckdropper wrote:

Let's say you notice a cut starting to "go bad." What should you be
looking for in order to safely stop the cut/saw? Is it ever safe to
completely let go of the workpiece while the blade is still in it?

Anytime I'm ripping I use the wheeled hold-downs and anti-kickback
devices. While it's still not the safest thing to do, I can usually let
go of the wood and the wheels will hold it down and against the fence.
Then I can turn off the saw and fix the problem. Here's a link to the
ones I use:

http://woodworker.com/anti-kickback-...p?search=table
%20saw%20accessories&searchmode=2

On 5/7/2014 1:11 PM, Baxter wrote:

I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that releases
a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table top? Pulls the
blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the saw, doesn't destroy
the blade - all you do is reset the latch.


You should start working on it. I imagine the SawStop people tried to
make something that does not destroy the blade. Maybe you will do
better and make a fortune.

On 5/7/2014 12:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Swingman writes:
On 5/7/2014 10:49 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
The eastern district of texas is quite well known for gullible juries;
which is what makes it the preferred venue for patent trolls and
class actions.

Bzzzt ...

"United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas"

This is a FEDERAL court overseen by a FEDERAL judge, not a TEXAS court.

The Feds are the ones who ****ed up the patent system to start with.

... and that's "Texas", with a capital "T"!

Surely they don't import the jurors, who decide the case, from outside
the eastern district of texas?

You'd be surprised how many are transplants from the East and West
coast. Damn few second generation Texans left down here.

But that is beside the point. Jurors much decide theses cases, with
great influence from the Federal judges, on FEDERAL law.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 5/7/2014 12:11 PM, Baxter wrote:
BillinGA wrote in
:

While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a law
firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed injuries such
as missing digits and nasty cuts with many stitches...the narrative
from a pretty blonde that said manufacturers did not want you to
know there were preventative measures available and these saw
companies could be held accountable for your injuries. They showed
and named the only saw I am aware of that will prevent many of these
injuries. It may be just me but it seems like a suitable comparison
would be going after an automaker that did not provide airbags before
they were required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have
seen this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot
coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a small
price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers don't share
my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the responsibility of
the operator, no matter when their device was made and sold.
Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish I had a lot of
new tools.


I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that releases
a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table top? Pulls the
blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the saw, doesn't destroy
the blade - all you do is reset the latch.



That would be a SawStop patent infringement.

"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

Anytime I'm ripping I use the wheeled hold-downs and anti-kickback
devices. While it's still not the safest thing to do, I can usually
let
go of the wood and the wheels will hold it down and against the
fence.
Then I can turn off the saw and fix the problem. Here's a link to
the
ones I use:

http://woodworker.com/anti-kickback-...p?search=table
%20saw%20accessories&searchmode=2
------------------------------------------------------------

SFWIW, I've used the BoardBuddie (Yellow) quite successfully
when I ripped a little over a mile of 2x12x24ft Doug fir into
1-1/2"x5/8"x24ft battens to build my sailboat mold.

That little project took a whole weekend and filled a dumpster
to the top with saw dust.

Lew

On 5/7/2014 3:23 PM, Baxter wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 5/7/2014 12:11 PM, Baxter wrote:
BillinGA wrote in
:

While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a
law firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed
injuries such as missing digits and nasty cuts with many
stitches...the narrative from a pretty blonde that said
manufacturers did not want you to know there were preventative
measures available and these saw companies could be held
accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw
I am aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be
just me but it seems like a suitable comparison would be going
after an automaker that did not provide airbags before they were
required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have seen
this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot
coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a
small price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers
don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the
responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device was
made and sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish
I had a lot of new tools.


I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that
releases a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table
top? Pulls the blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the
saw, doesn't destroy the blade - all you do is reset the latch.



That would be a SawStop patent infringement.

Don't see how - and maybe they're already working on it:
http://tinyurl.com/maeorhg




According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
allowing this amendment.

On Wed, 07 May 2014 12:31:53 -0700, Lew Hodgett wrote:

That little project took a whole weekend and filled a dumpster to the
top with saw dust.

That sawdust is my current problem. After my recent second bout with
pneumonia, my lung guy lectured me about sawdust exposure. I'd been
using a Dust-Bee-Gone mask and thought I was OK, but I checked and it
only claims to stop stuff down to 3 microns. So I went out yesterday and
bought a 3M respirator with a P100 rating. I haven't tried it yet, but I
doubt it'll be as comfortable as the mask.

OTOH, it looks like it'll be more comfortable than my old Willson "gas
mask" and it does give the same or better protection against finishing
fumes.

How's that saying go? "If I knew I was going to live this long, I'd have
taken better care of myself." :-)

"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

That sawdust is my current problem. After my recent second bout
with
pneumonia, my lung guy lectured me about sawdust exposure. I'd been
using a Dust-Bee-Gone mask and thought I was OK, but I checked and
it
only claims to stop stuff down to 3 microns. So I went out
yesterday and
bought a 3M respirator with a P100 rating. I haven't tried it yet,
but I
doubt it'll be as comfortable as the mask.

OTOH, it looks like it'll be more comfortable than my old Willson
"gas
mask" and it does give the same or better protection against
finishing
fumes.

How's that saying go? "If I knew I was going to live this long, I'd
have
taken better care of myself." :-)
------------------------------------------
There are some advantages to living here in SoCal including being
able to do a lot of your work outside which included making those
battens.

The runout table consisted of about 30 feet of roller conveyor while
the infeed consisted of roller stands made from welding pipe to
car tire steel rims.

At the end of the day, sweep all the saw dust into a pile and shovel
it into the dumpster.

Good luck with your respirator.

Lew

On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/7/2014 3:23 PM, Baxter wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 5/7/2014 12:11 PM, Baxter wrote:
BillinGA wrote in
:

While watching Delta Force for the 23rd time, I saw an ad from a
law firm going after table saw manufacturers. They showed
injuries such as missing digits and nasty cuts with many
stitches...the narrative from a pretty blonde that said
manufacturers did not want you to know there were preventative
measures available and these saw companies could be held
accountable for your injuries. They showed and named the only saw
I am aware of that will prevent many of these injuries. It may be
just me but it seems like a suitable comparison would be going
after an automaker that did not provide airbags before they were
required by law. I guess miter saws are next. Should have seen
this coming when McDonalds was successfully sued for selling hot
coffee. I am aware of the argument that a brake cartridge is a
small price to pay for safety but wonder if other woodworkers
don't share my opinion that safe operation of any saw is the
responsibility of the operator, no matter when their device was
made and sold. Certainly no slap at SawStop...wish I had one. Wish
I had a lot of new tools.


I think there's other methods to improve Table saw safety without
destroying the blade. How about a sensor (like on Saw Stop) that
releases a latch on the arbor and drops the blade below the table
top? Pulls the blade away from your finger/hand/etc, turns off the
saw, doesn't destroy the blade - all you do is reset the latch.



That would be a SawStop patent infringement.

Don't see how - and maybe they're already working on it:
http://tinyurl.com/maeorhg




According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
allowing this amendment.

Even if the PTO didn't allow this, the patent covers the sensor pretty
broadly. I read through these patents a couple of years ago and came
to the conclusion that Gass knows patent law pretty well. He's got
another eight (give or take) clear and then some, with the less broad
claims of later patents.

On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon wrote:

According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
allowing this amendment.

Now *that* makes me angry! Apparently Sawstop wants to be the only table
saw available. Didn't there used to be laws against monopolies?

On 5/8/2014 12:36 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon wrote:

According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
allowing this amendment.

Now *that* makes me angry! Apparently Sawstop wants to be the only table
saw available. Didn't there used to be laws against monopolies?


You know, it's not a monopoly. They offered it out initially. The
companies turned their noses at it.

Modifying a patent is pretty common.

Read this, and notice they modified the patent.
From Lee Valley , got it today.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/Newslett...id=1057&lid=16


--
Jeff

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon wrote:

According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
allowing this amendment.

Now *that* makes me angry! Apparently Sawstop wants to be the only table
saw available. Didn't there used to be laws against monopolies?

SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its patents.
Don't get me started with why r12 freon was out lawned.

On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 07 May 2014 18:13:43 -0500, Leon wrote:

According to the PTI the technology of dropping the blade was being
perused. When SawStop learned of this they amended a pending patent in
March of 2012 to protect further protect the technology of a blade
dropping quickly after blade contact. Apparently the patent office is
allowing this amendment.

Now *that* makes me angry! Apparently Sawstop wants to be the only table
saw available. Didn't there used to be laws against monopolies?

SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its patents.

Not true. Most companies file patents as a purely defensive move.
Most of the remaining license patents on a "reasonable and
non-discriminatory" basis. Few attempt to corner the market and
damned few attempt to get the federal government to put their
competition out of business.

Don't get me started with why r12 freon was out lawned.

Does it grow grass too? ;-)

On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:

SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its patents.

No argument. I just get irritated at what I think are excesses of
capitalism. This mornings paper had an article about a low birth rate
and said it was good for overpopulation but bad for the economy.
Everyone they quoted complained about the economic impact and ignored the
population issue. Same with environmental controls. Big coal and big
oil scream about damage to their profits.

And no, before the tea party types here foam at the mouth, I don't know
of a better system.

I take some solace in the probability that if we keep on being so stupid,
we'll become extinct or fall back to the stone age.

On 5/9/2014 1:46 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:

SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its patents.

No argument. I just get irritated at what I think are excesses of
capitalism. This mornings paper had an article about a low birth rate
and said it was good for overpopulation but bad for the economy.
Everyone they quoted complained about the economic impact and ignored the
population issue. Same with environmental controls. Big coal and big
oil scream about damage to their profits.

And no, before the tea party types here foam at the mouth, I don't know
of a better system.

I take some solace in the probability that if we keep on being so stupid,
we'll become extinct or fall back to the stone age.


We are in danger, no doubt.
What's worse is the kids today are less capable then we were. There
reading and math scores are very low.
The loss of vocational schooling in the middle and high school (wood
shop, metal shop) leave no where for these less educated kids to go.

Add to that our lack of making hard decisions and you have a firestorm
brewing.. of catastrophic proportions.

In the old days, people were more adept at adapting, today, less so.


--
Jeff

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:

SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its
patents.

No argument. I just get irritated at what I think are excesses of
capitalism. This mornings paper had an article about a low birth rate
and said it was good for overpopulation but bad for the economy.
Everyone they quoted complained about the economic impact and ignored
the population issue. Same with environmental controls. Big coal
and big oil scream about damage to their profits.

And no, before the tea party types here foam at the mouth, I don't
know of a better system.


And then - back in the stone age, our grandfathers will still be complaining
about the generation we live in. To some extent - this crap just keeps
going around. Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about
everything. It's been this way since the beginnin of time.

--

-Mike-

I take some solace in the probability that if we keep on being so
stupid, we'll become extinct or fall back to the stone age.

On 5/9/2014 2:16 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:52:10 -0500, Leon wrote:

SawStop is simply doing what every other company does with its
patents.

No argument. I just get irritated at what I think are excesses of
capitalism. This mornings paper had an article about a low birth rate
and said it was good for overpopulation but bad for the economy.
Everyone they quoted complained about the economic impact and ignored
the population issue. Same with environmental controls. Big coal
and big oil scream about damage to their profits.

And no, before the tea party types here foam at the mouth, I don't
know of a better system.


And then - back in the stone age, our grandfathers will still be complaining
about the generation we live in. To some extent - this crap just keeps
going around. Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about
everything. It's been this way since the beginnin of time.

Exactly! I shutter to think what life was like during WWII when there
were real problems.

And then - back in the stone age, our grandfathers will still be
complaining
about the generation we live in. To some extent - this crap just
keeps
going around. Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about
everything. It's been this way since the beginnin of time.


"Leon" wrote:

Exactly! I shutter to think what life was like during WWII when
there were real problems.
-----------------------------------------
It was pretty straight forward.

There was THE WAR to win.

Whatever was needed got done.

And yes, the Hollywood propaganda machine was in full glory.

Watch some old flicks from the war years.

Lew




Lew

On Fri, 09 May 2014 15:16:53 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about everything. It's
been this way since the beginnin of time.

The world population doubles about every 60 years. It has *not* been
that way since "the beginning of time". How long do you think that can
continue? How long before the "too many rats in a cage" syndrome gets
out of hand?

BTW, the US is right on the average. In 1950 the population was 151
million. Sixty years later, in 2010, the population was 309 million.
Both numbers from the census.

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Fri, 09 May 2014 15:16:53 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about everything. It's
been this way since the beginnin of time.

The world population doubles about every 60 years. It has *not* been
that way since "the beginning of time". How long do you think that
can continue? How long before the "too many rats in a cage" syndrome
gets out of hand?

Not that long Larry - at some point the rats will start eating each other.
Problem solved. We are seeing that in segments of our society today.
Darwin and human nature seem to have a way of controlling things despite our
best hopes/fears.


BTW, the US is right on the average. In 1950 the population was 151
million. Sixty years later, in 2010, the population was 309 million.
Both numbers from the census.

I don't doubt those numbers one bit Larry. Just not sure how meaningful
they are.

--

-Mike-

On 5/9/2014 1:54 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
And then - back in the stone age, our grandfathers will still be
complaining
about the generation we live in. To some extent - this crap just
keeps
going around. Maybe we just need to quit compaining so much about
everything. It's been this way since the beginnin of time.


"Leon" wrote:

Exactly! I shutter to think what life was like during WWII when
there were real problems.
-----------------------------------------
It was pretty straight forward.

There was THE WAR to win.

Whatever was needed got done.

And yes, the Hollywood propaganda machine was in full glory.

Watch some old flicks from the war years.

Lew




Lew


And the top income tax rate in 1945 was 94%. Those guys knew how to
fund a war.
mahalo,
jo4hn