When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers, can I take for granted that
they have "parallelogram support", or is that feature only in the later
models?

Grizzly sent me a 10%-off coupon, so I am considering the G-0490, but I
would prefer to buy used. I think I'd even find a decent 6" unit
acceptable for now. I'm not in a hurry but I just have 10 more days on
my coupon. I've been checking craigslist everyday since they sent the
coupon. A DJ-20 showed up for $1000 the other day and disppeared pretty
fast. There is one out there for $1150. I think I'd pay $750 as a new
G-490, would be $1050 including delivery. Maybe that is unfair to a
DJ-20 seller, but that is the way I think about it. I saw a Powermatic
8" jointer go for about that at an auction 2 years ago. It was in a
basement with a steep stairway!

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message ...

When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers, can I take for granted that
they have "parallelogram support", or is that feature only in the later
models?

The DJ-15, DJ-20 and DJ-30 all have the parallelogram system.

my coupon. I've been checking craigslist everyday since they sent the
coupon. A DJ-20 showed up for $1000 the other day and disppeared pretty
fast. There is one out there for $1150. I think I'd pay $750 as a new
G-490, would be $1050 including delivery. Maybe that is unfair to a DJ-20
seller, but that is the way I think about it. I saw a Powermatic

In my experience (I have a DJ-20 and have and have used Griz tools) you'd
find the Delta to be a more refined machine. The castings are cleaned up and
machined nicely and the adjustments work smoothly. In comparison, adjusting
the depth of cut is very smooth and accurate on the DJ-20... not so much on
the Griz I used as it didn't move smoothly which led to missing the depth
"spot" I was attempting to reach. The Deltas were shipping with good
quality U.S. made motors also.

If the used DJ-20 is in good shape and looks good you can likely get back
every dollar you paid for it if you sell it. The same cannot be said for a
new Griz (or any other new tool).

I'd be inclined to get the Delta if it's in good shape and looks good.

John

On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 8:56:08 AM UTC-5, John Grossbohlin wrote:
In my experience (I have a DJ-20 and have and have used Griz tools) you'd find the Delta to be a more refined machine.

I've used a old Delta and own a late 80s model Powermatic. I find them nearly the same. I don't know of the new machines.

In the used department, be patient and get what you want. Don't settle for something less. You'll eventually find a good deal. Also, a long table is most desirable, especially if you settle for a 6" unit.

Sonny

John Grossbohlin wrote:
snip
I'd be inclined to get the Delta if it's in good shape and looks good.

John




Thank you for the "review" John! I know I just missed my chance on a
very nice-looking DJ-20. I wasn't ready to plunk down $1000 though. I
have enough to keep me busy while I keep looking (including a vintage #8
hand plane, and two #7s, a #6, ... -- almost the whole set (no #3))

Bill

On 3/12/2014 4:03 PM, Bill wrote:
John Grossbohlin wrote:
snip
I'd be inclined to get the Delta if it's in good shape and looks good.

John




Thank you for the "review" John! I know I just missed my chance on a
very nice-looking DJ-20. I wasn't ready to plunk down $1000 though. I
have enough to keep me busy while I keep looking (including a vintage #8
hand plane, and two #7s, a #6, ... -- almost the whole set (no #3))

I'd certainly not restrict my looking to the DJ series, either. Unless
they've seen 50 yr of service in a commercial shop where they tables
were cranked a zillion times a day ever day, the chances of the bed ways
being worn enough you'll ever know it is near zero on a traditional
Delta or PM and even if they are a little loose there are takeup gibs to
compensate.

While the parallelogram design is nice, lacking it is certainly not a
show-stopper imo.

As another said, look for the longest bed you can find and have room for
and wider is always better. (I covet the old Crescent 20" had access to
in Lynchburg... )

--

Bill wrote:
When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers,


Bill

If you were looking for new one of these, you might get the impression
they aren't going to make them anymore! At least, they seem scarce!

Bill

Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers,


Bill

If you were looking for new one of these, you might get the impression
they aren't going to make them anymore! At least, they seem scarce!

Bill


"Delta Machinery" was evidently bought by Chang Type (of Taiwan).

This from their web site, to let you know the Delta name is in good
hands! %-)


The continuous orders from its customers push the business growing.
Through our OEM/ODM brands, such as Ryobi (the fastest growing brand
globally), Craftsman (exclusive brand in Sears ), Black & Decker (Global
No. 1 power tools manufacturer) and Dewalt (Top tier of Black & Decker
power tools), the products are sold in the major retailing channels,
such as Sears, Home Depot and Lowe’s. We have also expanded our capacity
to Ho Li new Plant to meet the future demands from our valuable customers.

On 3/16/2014 3:28 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers,


Bill

If you were looking for new one of these, you might get the impression
they aren't going to make them anymore! At least, they seem scarce!

Bill


"Delta Machinery" was evidently bought by Chang Type (of Taiwan).

This from their web site, to let you know the Delta name is in good
hands! %-)


The continuous orders from its customers push the business growing.
Through our OEM/ODM brands, such as Ryobi (the fastest growing brand
globally), Craftsman (exclusive brand in Sears ), Black & Decker (Global
No. 1 power tools manufacturer) and Dewalt (Top tier of Black & Decker
power tools), the products are sold in the major retailing channels,
such as Sears, Home Depot and Lowe’s. We have also expanded our capacity
to Ho Li new Plant to meet the future demands from our valuable customers.
Yes Bill we all new that.

I avoid Crapsman mostly
Avoid B&D like the plague ... it's crap.
Avoid new Delta... crap.

Dewalt I consider good quality mostly. But I have been reading some bad
things.. I have an older scroll saw... it's great, the new ones have
some serious problems...

Big box stores have held the prices down, but also the quality.
If you can buy from tool companies, you'll pay more but get a better
tool. If you'll notice the UPC's are different. I've been told the
batteries are better, and some components are stronger than big box.
True or not??? I don't know.



--
Jeff

On 3/16/2014 2:28 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers,
....

"Delta Machinery" was evidently bought by Chang Type (of Taiwan).

....

That occurred "way back" in 2011...at the time FWW said--

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/34363/updated-stanley-sells-delta-tools-to-taiwanese-company

I've not looked at anything up close and personal since then and
certainly not recently so no real knowledge on how they're actually doing...

--

"woodchucker" wrote

Avoid B&D like the plague ... it's crap.

On the most part, I agree. I was given a partial set of B&D Firestorm
battery tools, and I found them to be so indestructible, that I got all of
the tools in the line, so I could use the same batteries. The batteries are
still crap, but the tools have been proven to be tough as nails, and I have
used them on an every day commercial basis. I solved the battery problem by
buying a few Kobalt 4400Mah Lithium ion batteries and stuffing them in the
old NiCad batter cases. Problem solved.

Dewalt I consider good quality mostly. But I have been reading some bad
things.. I have an older scroll saw... it's great, the new ones have some
serious problems...

Yep. Bad switches, armatures burned out, cases broken, batteries burned out
quickly, all of the problems. I would not buy a new Dealt on a bet, now.

--
Jim in NC


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

woodchucker wrote:
On 3/16/2014 3:28 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers,


Bill

If you were looking for new one of these, you might get the impression
they aren't going to make them anymore! At least, they seem scarce!

Bill


"Delta Machinery" was evidently bought by Chang Type (of Taiwan).

This from their web site, to let you know the Delta name is in good
hands! %-)


The continuous orders from its customers push the business growing.
Through our OEM/ODM brands, such as Ryobi (the fastest growing brand
globally), Craftsman (exclusive brand in Sears ), Black & Decker (Global
No. 1 power tools manufacturer) and Dewalt (Top tier of Black & Decker
power tools), the products are sold in the major retailing channels,
such as Sears, Home Depot and Lowe’s. We have also expanded our capacity
to Ho Li new Plant to meet the future demands from our valuable
customers.
Yes Bill we all new that.

I knew about "Stanley, Black and Decker", but I didn't know Delta was
part of the same mix. It helps explain why certain tools have disappeared.
I guess that means Porter-Cable is part of the same mix. Delta was like
the sacred cow (to me). Sorry for my not keeping up.

Bill



I avoid Crapsman mostly
Avoid B&D like the plague ... it's crap.
Avoid new Delta... crap.

Dewalt I consider good quality mostly. But I have been reading some
bad things.. I have an older scroll saw... it's great, the new ones
have some serious problems...

Big box stores have held the prices down, but also the quality.
If you can buy from tool companies, you'll pay more but get a better
tool. If you'll notice the UPC's are different. I've been told the
batteries are better, and some components are stronger than big box.
True or not??? I don't know.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 16:33:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:

woodchucker wrote:
On 3/16/2014 3:28 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers,


Bill

If you were looking for new one of these, you might get the impression
they aren't going to make them anymore! At least, they seem scarce!

Bill


"Delta Machinery" was evidently bought by Chang Type (of Taiwan).

This from their web site, to let you know the Delta name is in good
hands! %-)


The continuous orders from its customers push the business growing.
Through our OEM/ODM brands, such as Ryobi (the fastest growing brand
globally), Craftsman (exclusive brand in Sears ), Black & Decker (Global
No. 1 power tools manufacturer) and Dewalt (Top tier of Black & Decker
power tools), the products are sold in the major retailing channels,
such as Sears, Home Depot and Lowe’s. We have also expanded our capacity
to Ho Li new Plant to meet the future demands from our valuable
customers.
Yes Bill we all new that.

I knew about "Stanley, Black and Decker", but I didn't know Delta was
part of the same mix. It helps explain why certain tools have disappeared.
I guess that means Porter-Cable is part of the same mix. Delta was like
the sacred cow (to me). Sorry for my not keeping up.

Most Porter-Cable is junk now, too. Some of their old-tech stuff is
still alright. The PC-691 is still a nice router. There are better
but I still like its "D" handle.

Yeah, Delta is in there, too. However I bought the Delta 18-900L a
couple of years ago and am very happy with it. It's a very nice
woodworking drill press.
http://www.deltamachinery.com/products/drilling-boring-machines/item/18-900l



...

On 3/16/2014 5:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 16:33:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:

woodchucker wrote:
On 3/16/2014 3:28 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers,


Bill

If you were looking for new one of these, you might get the impression
they aren't going to make them anymore! At least, they seem scarce!

Bill


"Delta Machinery" was evidently bought by Chang Type (of Taiwan).

This from their web site, to let you know the Delta name is in good
hands! %-)


The continuous orders from its customers push the business growing.
Through our OEM/ODM brands, such as Ryobi (the fastest growing brand
globally), Craftsman (exclusive brand in Sears ), Black & Decker (Global
No. 1 power tools manufacturer) and Dewalt (Top tier of Black & Decker
power tools), the products are sold in the major retailing channels,
such as Sears, Home Depot and Lowe’s. We have also expanded our capacity
to Ho Li new Plant to meet the future demands from our valuable
customers.
Yes Bill we all new that.

I knew about "Stanley, Black and Decker", but I didn't know Delta was
part of the same mix. It helps explain why certain tools have disappeared.
I guess that means Porter-Cable is part of the same mix. Delta was like
the sacred cow (to me). Sorry for my not keeping up.

Most Porter-Cable is junk now, too. Some of their old-tech stuff is
still alright. The PC-691 is still a nice router. There are better
but I still like its "D" handle.

Yeah, Delta is in there, too. However I bought the Delta 18-900L a
couple of years ago and am very happy with it. It's a very nice
woodworking drill press.
http://www.deltamachinery.com/products/drilling-boring-machines/item/18-900l



...

Yea that's a real nice drill press. 6" quill travel, and the depth stops
working both sides of the shaft to hold it down for sanding or millling
work is nice.

The trunion table is cool.

It is a nice looking unit.. Especially down to 170 rpm..
But what is that big box on the motor?? Where they stuck the capacitors.

--
Jeff

On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 17:29:33 -0400, woodchucker
wrote:

On 3/16/2014 5:10 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 16:33:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:

woodchucker wrote:
On 3/16/2014 3:28 AM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
When I look at used 8" Delta DJ-20 jointers,


Bill

If you were looking for new one of these, you might get the impression
they aren't going to make them anymore! At least, they seem scarce!

Bill


"Delta Machinery" was evidently bought by Chang Type (of Taiwan).

This from their web site, to let you know the Delta name is in good
hands! %-)


The continuous orders from its customers push the business growing.
Through our OEM/ODM brands, such as Ryobi (the fastest growing brand
globally), Craftsman (exclusive brand in Sears ), Black & Decker (Global
No. 1 power tools manufacturer) and Dewalt (Top tier of Black & Decker
power tools), the products are sold in the major retailing channels,
such as Sears, Home Depot and Lowe’s. We have also expanded our capacity
to Ho Li new Plant to meet the future demands from our valuable
customers.
Yes Bill we all new that.

I knew about "Stanley, Black and Decker", but I didn't know Delta was
part of the same mix. It helps explain why certain tools have disappeared.
I guess that means Porter-Cable is part of the same mix. Delta was like
the sacred cow (to me). Sorry for my not keeping up.

Most Porter-Cable is junk now, too. Some of their old-tech stuff is
still alright. The PC-691 is still a nice router. There are better
but I still like its "D" handle.

Yeah, Delta is in there, too. However I bought the Delta 18-900L a
couple of years ago and am very happy with it. It's a very nice
woodworking drill press.
http://www.deltamachinery.com/products/drilling-boring-machines/item/18-900l



...

Yea that's a real nice drill press. 6" quill travel, and the depth stops
working both sides of the shaft to hold it down for sanding or millling
work is nice.

The 6" travel and low RPM ranges are what eventually sold me (I was
about to pull the trigger on a PowerMatic PM2800(?) but it only went
to 400RPM).

The trunion table is cool.

It is a nice looking unit.. Especially down to 170 rpm..
But what is that big box on the motor?? Where they stuck the capacitors.

Yes, and a circuit breaker.

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?

---------------------------------------------------------------
As venture capitalists, wonder how they plan to respond to the SawStop
activity in the market place to protect their investments?

Lew

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:01:08 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?

Why is that automatically "bad news"?

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:01:08 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?
Why is that automatically "bad news"?

Do you expect to see it result in higher-quality Powermatic products in
the marketplace? Or even equivalent quality?

Bill

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Bill wrote:
In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?
---------------------------------------------------------------
As venture capitalists, wonder how they plan to respond to the SawStop
activity in the market place to protect their investments?

Lew


That's a good question. How many years a left on the patents in
question? Maybe at today's (low) borrowing rates, waiting is cheap.

Bill

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:26:29 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote:
Bill wrote:
In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?
---------------------------------------------------------------
As venture capitalists, wonder how they plan to respond to the SawStop
activity in the market place to protect their investments?

Lew


That's a good question. How many years a left on the patents in
question? Maybe at today's (low) borrowing rates, waiting is cheap.

The basic SawStop patents were issued in 2002, so they have another
eight years to run. There are others but the biggies are the first
ones. The rest is engineering.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:21:23 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:01:08 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?
Why is that automatically "bad news"?

Do you expect to see it result in higher-quality Powermatic products in
the marketplace? Or even equivalent quality?

I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

On 3/17/2014 4:21 PM, Bill wrote:
....

Do you expect to see it result in higher-quality Powermatic products in
the marketplace? Or even equivalent quality?

There's no indication they're not as good or better afaik...I've
certainly heard no upswell of discontent w/ PM since.

The consumer/small commercial market is a _very_ tough one though with
the advent of all the imports.

--

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:21:23 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:01:08 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?
Why is that automatically "bad news"?
Do you expect to see it result in higher-quality Powermatic products in
the marketplace? Or even equivalent quality?
I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

What you can rely on, I think, is that the new products will be "better
engineered".
Give me one of the old ones please.

On 3/17/2014 7:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:21:23 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:01:08 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?
Why is that automatically "bad news"?

Do you expect to see it result in higher-quality Powermatic products in
the marketplace? Or even equivalent quality?

I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

You have to remember that Jet does more than just woodworking. They have
large machines for metal and these are their market lines:

AIR TOOLS
HAND TOOLS
LIFTING SYSTEMS
METALWORKING
SHOP TOOLS
WAREHOUSE & DOCK
WOODWORKING

--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:21:23 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:01:08 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?

Why is that automatically "bad news"?

Do you expect to see it result in higher-quality Powermatic products in
the marketplace? Or even equivalent quality?

I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

You have to remember that Jet does more than just woodworking. They
have large machines for metal and these are their market lines:

AIR TOOLS
HAND TOOLS
LIFTING SYSTEMS
METALWORKING
SHOP TOOLS
WAREHOUSE & DOCK
WOODWORKING


Gosh, with all of that on their plate, going after SawStop must seem
akin to going after Intel with hopes of a competitive microprocessor design.
The company that bought Delta seems to like to make miter saws. The
world can' have too many of those! ; )

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 19:00:01 -0400, wrote:
I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

But, wouldn't you agree that their prime motive usually is profit?
And, that is frequently consolidation and/or efficiency improvements
of some type aka cutbacks.

But, as you say, the article gives limited information.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 20:34:05 -0400, Bill
wrote:

woodchucker wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:21:23 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:01:08 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?

Why is that automatically "bad news"?

Do you expect to see it result in higher-quality Powermatic products in
the marketplace? Or even equivalent quality?

I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

You have to remember that Jet does more than just woodworking. They
have large machines for metal and these are their market lines:

AIR TOOLS
HAND TOOLS
LIFTING SYSTEMS
METALWORKING
SHOP TOOLS
WAREHOUSE & DOCK
WOODWORKING


Gosh, with all of that on their plate, going after SawStop must seem
akin to going after Intel with hopes of a competitive microprocessor design.

Huh? You have it backwards.

The company that bought Delta seems to like to make miter saws. The
world can' have too many of those! ; )

You're making no sense.

On 3/18/2014 8:55 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 20:34:05 -0400, Bill
wrote:

woodchucker wrote:
On 3/17/2014 7:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:21:23 -0400, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 00:01:08 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bill wrote:

In other bad news, Jet and Powermatic were bought up in Oct/2013:

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/wo...h_your_sistem?

Why is that automatically "bad news"?

Do you expect to see it result in higher-quality Powermatic products in
the marketplace? Or even equivalent quality?

I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

You have to remember that Jet does more than just woodworking. They
have large machines for metal and these are their market lines:

AIR TOOLS
HAND TOOLS
LIFTING SYSTEMS
METALWORKING
SHOP TOOLS
WAREHOUSE & DOCK
WOODWORKING


Gosh, with all of that on their plate, going after SawStop must seem
akin to going after Intel with hopes of a competitive microprocessor design.

Huh? You have it backwards.

Agreed.

The company that bought Delta seems to like to make miter saws. The
world can' have too many of those! ; )

You're making no sense.

Yep...

--
Jeff

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 00:07:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 19:00:01 -0400, wrote:
I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

But, wouldn't you agree that their prime motive usually is profit?

Isn't that the purpose of a corporation? With a public, for profit,
corporation (this isn't), it's the law.

And, that is frequently consolidation and/or efficiency improvements
of some type aka cutbacks.

Frequently, it's the acquisition of a company in trouble, by a company
with deeper pockets, too.

But, as you say, the article gives limited information.

writes:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 00:07:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 19:00:01 -0400, wrote:
I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

But, wouldn't you agree that their prime motive usually is profit?

Isn't that the purpose of a corporation? With a public, for profit,
corporation (this isn't), it's the law.

But when a private equity company takes a company private, they do
it as a LBO - they create massive debt to pay the current shareholders.

Then they rake off the cream, and after a while, they re-IPO (or
shutdown) the company that they took private. The newly public
company is saddled with tremendous debt that the private equity
company never actually paid off, and often forces the new
company into bankruptcy after a period of time, when they can't
pay off the debt. (And the cost to service the debt directly impacts
the cash flow, reducing R&D opportunities. It's a downward spiral).

That may be good for the private equity company, but is not so good
for the employees or customers of the firm that they took private.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 16:39:08 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 00:07:11 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 19:00:01 -0400, wrote:
I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

But, wouldn't you agree that their prime motive usually is profit?

Isn't that the purpose of a corporation? With a public, for profit,
corporation (this isn't), it's the law.

But when a private equity company takes a company private, they do
it as a LBO - they create massive debt to pay the current shareholders.

Maybe. Where were the terms of the acquisition written in the
article?

Then they rake off the cream, and after a while, they re-IPO (or
shutdown) the company that they took private. The newly public
company is saddled with tremendous debt that the private equity
company never actually paid off, and often forces the new
company into bankruptcy after a period of time, when they can't
pay off the debt. (And the cost to service the debt directly impacts
the cash flow, reducing R&D opportunities. It's a downward spiral).

You're assuming a lot, based on your obvious prejudice.

That may be good for the private equity company, but is not so good
for the employees or customers of the firm that they took private.

You must be a lefty.

On 3/17/2014 11:07 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 19:00:01 -0400, wrote:
I certainly wouldn't automatically assume they'll get worse. The new
company may have more money to spend. ...or not, but we can't know
that from the article.

But, wouldn't you agree that their prime motive usually is profit?
....

Isn't that the primary motive for any business?

We seem to have evolved into a way of thinking that businesses exist to
serve some philanthropic purpose and provide employment and benefits
irregardless of anything else rather than that those are simply side
products of the operation of a business.

One thing I've noticed that happened clear back when or shortly after
P-C bought Delta is that they quite buying advertising in FWW. One
would think that would be a prime place to try to sell higher-priced ww
gear but I guess they thought the high cost of the space doesn't bring
enough reward.

Hadn't really thought about if for a while, I just looked; I don't see
any at all in the last several issues, either. PM is still there w/ a
full-page spread or one of the inside covers every issue, however, as
well as Jet. But, it's clear the printed copy is waning with emphasis
shifting to electronic--it's not what it was even a few years ago.

--

woodchucker wrote:

The company that bought Delta seems to like to make miter saws. The
world can' have too many of those! ; )

You're making no sense.

Yep...


I was being sarcastic. I don't think we need more miter saws in the
consumer marketplace.
In an article, the company explicitly mentioned room for expansion in
that area of their specialization.
It didn't say anything about table saws.

Bill

On 3/18/2014 6:40 PM, Bill wrote:
woodchucker wrote:

The company that bought Delta seems to like to make miter saws. The
world can' have too many of those! ; )

You're making no sense.

Yep...


I was being sarcastic. I don't think we need more miter saws in the
consumer marketplace.
In an article, the company explicitly mentioned room for expansion in
that area of their specialization.
It didn't say anything about table saws.

Bill
They already produce an ugly tablesaw. I saw it at woodcraft last year,
the new cabinet saw... fit and finish were awful. I was very un-impressed.

--
Jeff

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 12:57:04 -0400, wrote:
You must be a lefty.

Really? Seems to me that anyone you disagree with is a lefty. I could
say that you're so far right, that everyone else is a lefty, but, I
don't want to start a another disagreement or fight.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:53:37 -0500, dpb wrote:
But, wouldn't you agree that their prime motive usually is profit?

Isn't that the primary motive for any business?

We seem to have evolved into a way of thinking that businesses exist to
serve some philanthropic purpose and provide employment and benefits
irregardless of anything else rather than that those are simply side
products of the operation of a business.

You're right of course. I guess it's just the expectation or maybe
just the want to see some sense of altruism from the people and
businesses that exist in our society. But then, maybe I'm just too
much of a lefty as krw frequently reminds me.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:35:59 -0400, woodchucker
They already produce an ugly tablesaw. I saw it at woodcraft last year,
the new cabinet saw... fit and finish were awful. I was very un-impressed.

Nothing new about ugly tools. Look at the market for garish tools that
attract new or uninformed woodworkers. It's like rats drawn to peanut
butter. Look at the Hitachi tools that resemble transmogrified running
shoes.

On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 00:13:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 12:57:04 -0400, wrote:
You must be a lefty.

Really? Seems to me that anyone you disagree with is a lefty. I could
say that you're so far right, that everyone else is a lefty, but, I
don't want to start a another disagreement or fight.

No, but you two certainly are. You're stupid enough to make four
run-of-the-mill lefties, like Biden.

Q: Why do you lefties hate being called what you are? It's not the
name that you should be embarrassed about.

On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 00:20:37 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:53:37 -0500, dpb wrote:
But, wouldn't you agree that their prime motive usually is profit?

Isn't that the primary motive for any business?

We seem to have evolved into a way of thinking that businesses exist to
serve some philanthropic purpose and provide employment and benefits
irregardless of anything else rather than that those are simply side
products of the operation of a business.

You're right of course. I guess it's just the expectation or maybe
just the want to see some sense of altruism from the people and
businesses that exist in our society. But then, maybe I'm just too
much of a lefty as krw frequently reminds me.

More proof: lefties are incapable of telling the truth.

writes:


More proof: lefties are incapable of telling the truth.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...91886914000324