wrote:


OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when
we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have
been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously
incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.


Ugh! That would be annoying.

--

-Mike-

"Doug Winterburn" wrote:



I'm 6'2" and the most headroom I've had in any car was my 1970
Beetle.
-----------------------------------------------
Agreed, although the 84 Rabbit was close, but the Tacoma P/U is the
winner.


Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote:



I'm 6'2" and the most headroom I've had in any car was my 1970
Beetle.
-----------------------------------------------
Agreed, although the 84 Rabbit was close, but the Tacoma P/U is the
winner.


Lew


I'm going to be looking at that one next time around. What did you say
about its gas mileage?
Bill

Bill wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Doug Winterburn" wrote:



I'm 6'2" and the most headroom I've had in any car was my 1970
Beetle.
-----------------------------------------------
Agreed, although the 84 Rabbit was close, but the Tacoma P/U is the
winner.


Lew


I'm going to be looking at that one next time around. What did you
say about its gas mileage?
Bill


Wait, I know... Only 100 gallons a year, right! ; )

"Bill" wrote:
I'm going to be looking at that one next time around. What did you
say about its gas mileage?
-------------------------------------------------
I didn't but my 2.4L, 4 Cyl, 5 Spd Manual and A/C is getting 22-23 MPG
in city stop and go traffic.

My guess is about 27-28 MPG on the open road.

BTW, the 2.4L is the only engine equipped with a steel timing belt.

None of that rubber belt, change it at 50,000 miles for me.

Truck won't get away from a snail, but it gets me where I want to go.

Lew

On 12/24/2013 5:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:43:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when
we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have
been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously
incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.

The convertible is a lot of fun to drive, though. ;-)



I remember when the Federal Government changed that tax laws on the
inventories. After that point the service went down because inventories
were fully taxed each year and a company could not afford to maintain
the complete inventories they had previous.y

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 17:48:14 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:43:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when
we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have
been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously
incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.

The convertible is a lot of fun to drive, though. ;-)

You need my Ford dealer, they have been in business here almost a
hundred years. They do it by good quality service.

Mark

On 12/24/2013 8:27 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:
I'm going to be looking at that one next time around. What did you
say about its gas mileage?
-------------------------------------------------
I didn't but my 2.4L, 4 Cyl, 5 Spd Manual and A/C is getting 22-23 MPG
in city stop and go traffic.

My guess is about 27-28 MPG on the open road.

BTW, the 2.4L is the only engine equipped with a steel timing belt.

None of that rubber belt, change it at 50,000 miles for me.

Truck won't get away from a snail, but it gets me where I want to go.

Lew


While it's design stinks, you can not put a picnic cooler in the trunk,
the opening is to narrow, and you have to tip up the center console to
reach the emergency brake. Around town I get about 34mpg with my 2010
Cobalt. Several times on long trips I have gotten 40mpg, averaged about
37mpg. These trips were 14hours straight @ 70mph on the interstates to
see my brothers.

My Z-24 2002 Cavalier had over 100k when I got hit and it was totaled.
I don't think I ever had any thing but routine service on the car. It
got about 28 around town and 33 on the open road.

They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service
turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.
----------------------------------
"Keith Nuttle" wrote:


I remember when the Federal Government changed that tax laws on the
inventories. After that point the service went down because
inventories were fully taxed each year and a company could not
afford to maintain the complete inventories they had previous.y
----------------------------------------------
Which explains why many of the auto guys (FoMoCo was one) sold
their in house inventory to a 3rd party and then bought back only
what they used that day.

More bean counter games.

Lew

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 20:01:46 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 17:48:14 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:43:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when
we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have
been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously
incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.

The convertible is a lot of fun to drive, though. ;-)

You need my Ford dealer, they have been in business here almost a
hundred years. They do it by good quality service.

I had a great Ford dealer, well Lincoln-Mercury, actually. The
general manager was a very close friend. Unfortunately, he's still in
Vermont and we're in Georgia, now. I never had any problems getting
service on my Ranger. The Ford dealer there sure sucked, though.

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

I'm coming to the conclusion that if you plan to keep the vehicle,
use genuine replacement parts.


That really depends on the manufacturer. I've found many - very many,
aftermarkete parts that were far superior to the OEM stuff. Can't really
boil that down to who/what/when/where, but I can say that one should not
simply assume that OEM is better. Too much evidence against that.



You can't assume that all after market is up to par with OEM. I have seen
a lot of crap out there.

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.
That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.
I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

LOL (best joke of the day, so far!)

Actually if you were the service manager of an American car builder saying
a 1 day old car not having a problem is not the usual. You would be
surprised how much warranty work gets done before delivery if you have a
good make ready department. A so so make ready department and the
customer gets to bring it back in...

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."


I consider it good since I have not ever had a vehicle that made it that
long with out needing some king of warranty work..
That included Honda and Acura.

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:


The Buick was going to be approximately $5000 less than the Camry that
we bought. And we got to take the Buick home for 24 hours as a test
drive. Actually that test drive is probably why we did not buy the
car.

Isn't that just a shame? A once legendary badge, and now it is just a piece
of ****.


Well Buick is probably better now than ever. IMHO most all of GM Vehicles,
except maybe their trucks, were POS since the mid 70's. Back in the 7Os
80s ... They were all the same vehicles with different trim levels and
badges.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from
Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is
needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only
lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks
like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew
-------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand
vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture
their
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand
vehicles,
maybe not.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm coming to the conclusion that if you plan to keep the vehicle,
use genuine replacement parts.

OTOH, if you do not plan to keep the vehicle, use after market parts
and pass potential short wear life on to the next owner.

After all, it is the seller not the buyer who probably knows the true
value of an item.

Lew

IMHO still not worth the gamble not using genuine replacement parts. If
you buy after market you may or you may not be buying OEM. if you buy an
after market oil filter that does not measure up you could sustain
substantial engine damage should the filter fail, and this could happen
within a few hundred miles after installing. It would be a bitch to have
the engine fail before you got rid of a vehicle that you do not plan to
keep long.

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.



2) Toyota does not manufacture all of their parts, themselves. They
buy from the same "Tier-1" companies as everyone else.


Again no one mentioned that they did. However they do not use after market
parts unless they meet specifications dictated to qualify as OEM.
GM owned a brand, Delco. Delco made lots of replacement parts for GM
vehicles. Also available Exclusively through GM were OEM parts referred to
as "Target" parts. Many of these parts had the Target Parts logo on the
packaging but were not necessarily manufactured by a GM owned company.
These parts were OEM. Not all brand after market parts would qualify as
OEM.

There is a lot of after market that does not qualify as OEM.

What I am saying is that Toyota uses better quality parts regardless of who
makes them than the less expensive brands that do not measure up.




I in another life made my living exclusively with selling parts and repairs
and warranty work on GM vehicles.

When I was the service sales manager for an Olds dealer I was once advised
by the Oldsmobile service hot line to use aftermarket parts to solve a
brake problem on a customers vehicle while it was still under warranty.

Our warranty department literally had hundreds of parts, replaced under
warranty, waiting to be inspected by an Olds service rep. Our next door
Toyota dealer had 3 items waiting to be inspected.

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles on it
and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work performed on
it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 04:00:58 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:50:22 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

I had a '93 Eagle Vision TsI that threw a set of wires every fall[*].
The difference between the aftermarket and OEM wires was ~$20 ($80 vs.
$100, IIRC). The kicker was that *every* brand of aftermarket wire
had insulators that were 1/4" too long. The OEM ones fit.

Every year I'd go through the game of trying to convince the guys at
the parts stores that their wires really didn't fit ("See! "They're
TOO LONG!").

[*] Turns out that the plug gap spec on the engine label was wrong. It
specified a .062" gap, which I thought was a little big, but "what the
heck...". The gap *should* have been .035". Doubling the spark
wasn't doing the wires any good. :-(

It "threw" a set of wires???

Ate them? Um, they "failed"?

Ok, failed is good.. Lots of non car people get the terminology mixed up.
Typically an engine will throw " belts". I was a bit confused.

woodchucker wrote:
On 12/24/2013 10:29 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/24/2013 7:56 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:


I consider a car with 70k just broke in and ready for the next 100k of
trouble free driving.


At 70k my Buick was not broken in, just broke. Transmission, heated
seat, climate control, brake lines, dash lights, steering wheel controls
and more. Had I known you loved cars like that I'd have given it to
you. I did give it away as I felt it unethical to sell it.

At two years and 40k miles the seat heater burned out. To have it
fixed, dealer wanted $672 to replace the entire seat bottom, not just
the element. Since it was under the 3 years but over the miles, I asked
GM for some help. They would give me $500 off if I bought a new car.
Last GM car for me.
When I was youn I built a Camaro race car, I raced it at a road racing track. not an oval.

I also bought a used BMW 2002..
I never went back to American after that. When I opened the engine, there
was a major difference in machine work. Americans were like clunkers and
the BMW was all machined.. Same with the Honda.

I went to Honda's next for quite a while until I had a problem with
undersize brakes and they kept telling me that no one had that problem..
During a Honda club meeting everyone was complaining about it.
That was my last Honda, as there way of dealing with the problem was to
say it wasn't happening. My wheel would shake violently from undersize rotors heating up.

I have been in Toyota's camp for a while now.. they are not perfect
either.. But it's been a solid vehichle .... the last 4 have been very good.

I used to compete against many of the engineers for GM and Chrysler at
the nationals.. They explained how Toyotas and Hondas fell apart in the
first couple of months.. I asked them if they had ever been in one.. They
would never step foot in one. I told them they would never understand,
and as engineers they should rent one to understand, give it a month...
Very closed minds, and that's why our car makers lost the Car battle..

In order to know the competition sometimes you need to embrace them... in
their case they just assumed they were better.

The reason the American manufacturers lost out to the Japanese was the
labor unions

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:54 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
^^^^^^^^
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.

What confused me was, "Toyota does not use after market parts to
manufacture their vehicles."

How can they? ...by the definition of the terms.

stuff resulting from the above misunderstanding, snipped

Leon wrote:


Actually if you were the service manager of an American car builder
saying a 1 day old car not having a problem is not the usual. You
would be surprised how much warranty work gets done before delivery
if you have a good make ready department. A so so make ready
department and the customer gets to bring it back in...

I guess I'm not surprised to hear that. I do know that most people would
have been alarmed at how many new cars had already been repainted or had
some minor body work done at the dealer before the car even got put out for
sale. Not so much now with improved rail cars and protective sheets on the
hoods, etc.

--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

I'm coming to the conclusion that if you plan to keep the vehicle,
use genuine replacement parts.


That really depends on the manufacturer. I've found many - very
many, aftermarkete parts that were far superior to the OEM stuff.
Can't really boil that down to who/what/when/where, but I can say
that one should not simply assume that OEM is better. Too much
evidence against that.



You can't assume that all after market is up to par with OEM. I
have seen a lot of crap out there.

Absolutely - but I had said that in a different post. There is some pure
junk out there.

--

-Mike-

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:54 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
^^^^^^^^
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.

What confused me was, "Toyota does not use after market parts to
manufacture their vehicles."

How can they? ...by the definition of the terms.

stuff resulting from the above misunderstanding, snipped

LOL

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:54 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
^^^^^^^^
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.

What confused me was, "Toyota does not use after market parts to
manufacture their vehicles."

How can they? ...by the definition of the terms.

stuff resulting from the above misunderstanding, snipped

Manufacturers offer several different grades and or styles of a given part
While OEM stands for original equipment manufacturer, a part commonly
referred to as OEM in the trades is one that is basically indistinguishable
from any other same OEM part manufactured by a different manufacturer and
is built to the specifications of the automobile manufacturer.. It is
common for several manufacturers to make the same OEM part for a car
builder. Car builders can't rely on a single source for the same part.

There are countless after market parts that are made by a top quality
manufacturer but not all of the parts qualify as OEM
And even though these parts may perform as well as the OEM parts that they
manufacture there may be a physical difference that increases its coverage
of vehicles that it may fit.

K&M makes top quality after market air cleaners but for the most part they
are not OEM.
To install these after market air cleaners the installer might have to make
some kind of modification to any number of things, snorkel hoses, vacuum
lines, heat riser tubes, etc.. If K&M makes an OEM air cleaner for a given
vehicle the part will perform, fit, and look like the original.

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:49:51 -0500, Bill
wrote:




I thought it was interesting (strange) when Buick dropped virtually all
of their old models, to introduce new ones ( LaCrosse, etc.). I think
Regal is the only one they kept (but I could be mistaken). I've almost
owned one of each.

Marketing. According to the dealer when I bought my last Buick, the
average age of Buick owners at the time was 65+. Twentysomethings
don't buy Roadmasters, Park Avenue, or LeSabre. They wanted names
that would possibly attract the younger crowd.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...than-norm.html
The new products have helped to change Buick’s demographics. In 2006,
Buick buyers on average had celebrated 66 birthdays. Last year the
number was 57, the company said. The Verano helped, because small cars
tend to draw younger buyers. But Buick buyers are still older than the
norm, and the automaker would like to catch more people in their 40s.
The average car buyer in the U.S. is 52, says the auto-pricing site
TrueCar.com.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:14:13 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:54 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
^^^^^^^^
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.

What confused me was, "Toyota does not use after market parts to
manufacture their vehicles."

How can they? ...by the definition of the terms.

stuff resulting from the above misunderstanding, snipped

LOL
Many manufacturers use basically "generic" or "off the shelf"
components which are THE SAME as what is sold as aftermarket parts -
parts made by Dana, or TRW, or some other company - too their spec -
and sold to the "aftermarket" off the same line.

In Japan you can likely buy "nippondenso" plug wires from the
aftermarket as well. Here in North America you generally can not - and
even some of the "dealer supplied" replacement parts are not,
technically, OEM - as they are from a different supplier than the
parts originally installed at the factory (and generally "locally
sourced")

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:49:51 -0500, Bill
wrote:



I thought it was interesting (strange) when Buick dropped virtually all
of their old models, to introduce new ones ( LaCrosse, etc.). I think
Regal is the only one they kept (but I could be mistaken). I've almost
owned one of each.
Marketing. According to the dealer when I bought my last Buick, the
average age of Buick owners at the time was 65+. Twentysomethings
don't buy Roadmasters, Park Avenue, or LeSabre.
I bought a Skylark when I was 24 or so, but to be honest, that engine in
that car didn't age well. Then GM dropped that model from their lineup
because they couldn't make enough money on it. I don't disagree with
what you say though. I may be more the exception than the rule when it
comes to what I have been looking for in a car (comfortable, reliable,
and affordable).


They wanted names
that would possibly attract the younger crowd.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...than-norm.html
The new products have helped to change Buick’s demographics. In 2006,
Buick buyers on average had celebrated 66 birthdays. Last year the
number was 57, the company said. The Verano helped, because small cars
tend to draw younger buyers. But Buick buyers are still older than the
norm, and the automaker would like to catch more people in their 40s.
The average car buyer in the U.S. is 52, says the auto-pricing site
TrueCar.com.

wrote:
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:14:13 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:54 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
^^^^^^^^
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.

What confused me was, "Toyota does not use after market parts to
manufacture their vehicles."

How can they? ...by the definition of the terms.

stuff resulting from the above misunderstanding, snipped

LOL
Many manufacturers use basically "generic" or "off the shelf"
components which are THE SAME as what is sold as aftermarket parts -
parts made by Dana, or TRW, or some other company - too their spec -
and sold to the "aftermarket" off the same line.

In Japan you can likely buy "nippondenso" plug wires from the
aftermarket as well. Here in North America you generally can not - and
even some of the "dealer supplied" replacement parts are not,
technically, OEM - as they are from a different supplier than the
parts originally installed at the factory (and generally "locally
sourced")

True, dealers do not always use OEM. Smaller dealers in smaller towns are
more likely to use aftermarket in the interest of repairing the vehicle in
a more timely manner Our dealership in Houston had a disclaimer
indicating that this might happen in the interest of repairing the vehicle
more quickly.. Our first choice was always OEM. It was extremely rare
that we resorted to using after market.

Basically a dealer prefers to use OEM as in the past GM would stand behind
the repair and part,,

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:53 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:


The Buick was going to be approximately $5000 less than the Camry that
we bought. And we got to take the Buick home for 24 hours as a test
drive. Actually that test drive is probably why we did not buy the
car.

Isn't that just a shame? A once legendary badge, and now it is just a piece
of ****.


Well Buick is probably better now than ever. IMHO most all of GM Vehicles,
except maybe their trucks, were POS since the mid 70's. Back in the 7Os
80s ... They were all the same vehicles with different trim levels and
badges.

Yes "found on road dead" now seems to belong to GM, not Ford. I have
bought Rangers the last three vehicles, the main reason the seat was
the most comfortable to my ass. Priorities YMMV.

Mark

On 12/23/2013 7:19 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote:

Geez you don't drive much. My 2004 cars are over 190k.
------------------------------------------------------------
After averaging 35-40,000 miles/year for over 35 years, I retired.

Today, I drive less than 2,000 miles/year and don't miss it at all.

Lew


I gave a 2000 Ford Ranger to my grandson this year. Had 60K miles on
it. Barely broken in. Insurance is quite a bit cheaper.

On 12/25/2013 6:13 PM, jo4hn wrote:

I gave a 2000 Ford Ranger to my grandson this year. Had 60K miles on
it. Barely broken in. Insurance is quite a bit cheaper.


If he is like my grandson it will be gone in a few months anyway.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 14:39:01 -0500, Bill
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:49:51 -0500, Bill
wrote:



I thought it was interesting (strange) when Buick dropped virtually all
of their old models, to introduce new ones ( LaCrosse, etc.). I think
Regal is the only one they kept (but I could be mistaken). I've almost
owned one of each.
Marketing. According to the dealer when I bought my last Buick, the
average age of Buick owners at the time was 65+. Twentysomethings
don't buy Roadmasters, Park Avenue, or LeSabre.

I bought a Skylark when I was 24 or so, but to be honest, that engine in
that car didn't age well. Then GM dropped that model from their lineup
because they couldn't make enough money on it. I don't disagree with
what you say though. I may be more the exception than the rule when it
comes to what I have been looking for in a car (comfortable, reliable,
and affordable).

Skylark was of a family that was geared to the younger buyer. They
also had the Grand National series some years back. Afterward though,
most models resorted to fogeydom. I was 46 when I bought a '91 Regal,
a nice looking car, but moved to a LeSabre when I was older.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 15:13:04 -0800, jo4hn
wrote:

On 12/23/2013 7:19 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote:

Geez you don't drive much. My 2004 cars are over 190k.
------------------------------------------------------------
After averaging 35-40,000 miles/year for over 35 years, I retired.

Today, I drive less than 2,000 miles/year and don't miss it at all.

Lew


I gave a 2000 Ford Ranger to my grandson this year. Had 60K miles on
it. Barely broken in. Insurance is quite a bit cheaper.

My 2001 Ranger went to the great used parts store in the sky, six
months ago. The real (leaf) spring mounts and where the attached to,
simply vanished. ...and some don't believe salt is bad for you. ;-)

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:12:12 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:49:51 -0500, Bill
wrote:




I thought it was interesting (strange) when Buick dropped virtually all
of their old models, to introduce new ones ( LaCrosse, etc.). I think
Regal is the only one they kept (but I could be mistaken). I've almost
owned one of each.

Marketing. According to the dealer when I bought my last Buick, the
average age of Buick owners at the time was 65+. Twentysomethings
don't buy Roadmasters, Park Avenue, or LeSabre. They wanted names
that would possibly attract the younger crowd.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...than-norm.html
The new products have helped to change Buick’s demographics. In 2006,
Buick buyers on average had celebrated 66 birthdays. Last year the
number was 57, the company said. The Verano helped, because small cars
tend to draw younger buyers. But Buick buyers are still older than the
norm, and the automaker would like to catch more people in their 40s.
The average car buyer in the U.S. is 52, says the auto-pricing site
TrueCar.com.

All car manufacturers are having that problem now. Over half of the
new car buyers are over 55. They're the only ones who can afford
them.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 13:59:31 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:53 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:


The Buick was going to be approximately $5000 less than the Camry that
we bought. And we got to take the Buick home for 24 hours as a test
drive. Actually that test drive is probably why we did not buy the
car.

Isn't that just a shame? A once legendary badge, and now it is just a piece
of ****.


Well Buick is probably better now than ever. IMHO most all of GM Vehicles,
except maybe their trucks, were POS since the mid 70's. Back in the 7Os
80s ... They were all the same vehicles with different trim levels and
badges.

Yes "found on road dead" now seems to belong to GM, not Ford. I have
bought Rangers the last three vehicles, the main reason the seat was
the most comfortable to my ass. Priorities YMMV.

Since Rangers are no longer made (2011 was the last year, IIRC), I
bought an F150 this time. I like it a lot! The price they were
asking for Rangers was outrageous. $22K for a 2010 with 20K miles or
$18K for an '11 with 50K. I paid $25K for a new '13 F150 XLT.

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 12:48:58 -0500, wrote:

Since Rangers are no longer made (2011 was the last year, IIRC), I
bought an F150 this time. I like it a lot! The price they were
asking for Rangers was outrageous. $22K for a 2010 with 20K miles or
$18K for an '11 with 50K. I paid $25K for a new '13 F150 XLT.

The Ranger is still made, just not sold or made in the US, they did
that to get rid of the glut of F150's.

wrote:
Since Rangers are no longer made (2011 was the last year, IIRC), I
bought an F150 this time. I like it a lot! The price they were asking
for Rangers was outrageous. $22K for a 2010 with 20K miles or $18K for
an '11 with 50K. I paid $25K for a new '13 F150 XLT.
Plus sales tax?

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 13:24:34 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 12:48:58 -0500, wrote:

Since Rangers are no longer made (2011 was the last year, IIRC), I
bought an F150 this time. I like it a lot! The price they were
asking for Rangers was outrageous. $22K for a 2010 with 20K miles or
$18K for an '11 with 50K. I paid $25K for a new '13 F150 XLT.

The Ranger is still made, just not sold or made in the US, they did
that to get rid of the glut of F150's.

I thought they did it because there was little difference in cost (and
price) so there was no longer a market. If it was because of a
"glut", it would have been temporary.

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 16:34:59 -0500, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
Since Rangers are no longer made (2011 was the last year, IIRC), I
bought an F150 this time. I like it a lot! The price they were asking
for Rangers was outrageous. $22K for a 2010 with 20K miles or $18K for
an '11 with 50K. I paid $25K for a new '13 F150 XLT.
Plus sales tax?

It was less than $26K total but sure, the sales tax was on both new
and used. I doubt I'll ever have to replace the new one, though.

wrote:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 16:34:59 -0500, Bill
wrote:

wrote:
Since Rangers are no longer made (2011 was the last year, IIRC), I
bought an F150 this time. I like it a lot! The price they were asking
for Rangers was outrageous. $22K for a 2010 with 20K miles or $18K for
an '11 with 50K. I paid $25K for a new '13 F150 XLT.
Plus sales tax?
It was less than $26K total but sure, the sales tax was on both new
and used. I doubt I'll ever have to replace the new one, though.

Cars (and trucks) just cost more than I want them to... my problem not
yours!
I've cut back on my driving on purpose. No regrets on cutting cable
either. With what I save on furniture by making it myself, I'm going to
be broke enough! ; )

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 19:44:17 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 13:24:34 -0600, Markem
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 12:48:58 -0500, wrote:

Since Rangers are no longer made (2011 was the last year, IIRC), I
bought an F150 this time. I like it a lot! The price they were
asking for Rangers was outrageous. $22K for a 2010 with 20K miles or
$18K for an '11 with 50K. I paid $25K for a new '13 F150 XLT.

The Ranger is still made, just not sold or made in the US, they did
that to get rid of the glut of F150's.

I thought they did it because there was little difference in cost (and
price) so there was no longer a market. If it was because of a
"glut", it would have been temporary.

From the article I read back in 2011, it was because the F150s were
not selling as they had hoped. All the investment in the new design
was being eaten away because they were competing with themselves with
the Ranger in the US. The profit margin on the F150s was also higher,
so may favorite truck is not available no more here. But if you have
enough money you could ship one from down under, the cost however
would buy you two F150s I think.

Mark

Mark