I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:50:22 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

I had a '93 Eagle Vision TsI that threw a set of wires every fall[*].
The difference between the aftermarket and OEM wires was ~$20 ($80 vs.
$100, IIRC). The kicker was that *every* brand of aftermarket wire
had insulators that were 1/4" too long. The OEM ones fit.

Every year I'd go through the game of trying to convince the guys at
the parts stores that their wires really didn't fit ("See! "They're
TOO LONG!").
[*] Turns out that the plug gap spec on the engine label was wrong. It
specified a .062" gap, which I thought was a little big, but "what the
heck...". The gap *should* have been .035". Doubling the spark
wasn't doing the wires any good. :-(

On 12/23/2013 9:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:50:22 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

I had a '93 Eagle Vision TsI that threw a set of wires every fall[*].
The difference between the aftermarket and OEM wires was ~$20 ($80 vs.
$100, IIRC). The kicker was that *every* brand of aftermarket wire
had insulators that were 1/4" too long. The OEM ones fit.

Every year I'd go through the game of trying to convince the guys at
the parts stores that their wires really didn't fit ("See! "They're
TOO LONG!").

[*] Turns out that the plug gap spec on the engine label was wrong. It
specified a .062" gap, which I thought was a little big, but "what the
heck...". The gap *should* have been .035". Doubling the spark
wasn't doing the wires any good. :-(

Typical American ****box, they couldn't even get the label right.

--
Jeff

On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 22:07:08 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 12/23/2013 9:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:50:22 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

I had a '93 Eagle Vision TsI that threw a set of wires every fall[*].
The difference between the aftermarket and OEM wires was ~$20 ($80 vs.
$100, IIRC). The kicker was that *every* brand of aftermarket wire
had insulators that were 1/4" too long. The OEM ones fit.

Every year I'd go through the game of trying to convince the guys at
the parts stores that their wires really didn't fit ("See! "They're
TOO LONG!").

[*] Turns out that the plug gap spec on the engine label was wrong. It
specified a .062" gap, which I thought was a little big, but "what the
heck...". The gap *should* have been .035". Doubling the spark
wasn't doing the wires any good. :-(

Typical American ****box, they couldn't even get the label right.

Certainly not typical. Chrysler makes a special class of **** box.

On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 23:18:28 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 22:07:08 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 12/23/2013 9:35 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:50:22 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

I had a '93 Eagle Vision TsI that threw a set of wires every fall[*].
The difference between the aftermarket and OEM wires was ~$20 ($80 vs.
$100, IIRC). The kicker was that *every* brand of aftermarket wire
had insulators that were 1/4" too long. The OEM ones fit.

Every year I'd go through the game of trying to convince the guys at
the parts stores that their wires really didn't fit ("See! "They're
TOO LONG!").

[*] Turns out that the plug gap spec on the engine label was wrong. It
specified a .062" gap, which I thought was a little big, but "what the
heck...". The gap *should* have been .035". Doubling the spark
wasn't doing the wires any good. :-(

Typical American ****box, they couldn't even get the label right.

Certainly not typical. Chrysler makes a special class of **** box.

Actually I think it's Fiat now. But yeah, it's a **** box.

wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:50:22 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

I had a '93 Eagle Vision TsI that threw a set of wires every fall[*].
The difference between the aftermarket and OEM wires was ~$20 ($80 vs.
$100, IIRC). The kicker was that *every* brand of aftermarket wire
had insulators that were 1/4" too long. The OEM ones fit.

Every year I'd go through the game of trying to convince the guys at
the parts stores that their wires really didn't fit ("See! "They're
TOO LONG!").

[*] Turns out that the plug gap spec on the engine label was wrong. It
specified a .062" gap, which I thought was a little big, but "what the
heck...". The gap *should* have been .035". Doubling the spark
wasn't doing the wires any good. :-(

It "threw" a set of wires???

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 04:00:58 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:50:22 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

I had a '93 Eagle Vision TsI that threw a set of wires every fall[*].
The difference between the aftermarket and OEM wires was ~$20 ($80 vs.
$100, IIRC). The kicker was that *every* brand of aftermarket wire
had insulators that were 1/4" too long. The OEM ones fit.

Every year I'd go through the game of trying to convince the guys at
the parts stores that their wires really didn't fit ("See! "They're
TOO LONG!").

[*] Turns out that the plug gap spec on the engine label was wrong. It
specified a .062" gap, which I thought was a little big, but "what the
heck...". The gap *should* have been .035". Doubling the spark
wasn't doing the wires any good. :-(

It "threw" a set of wires???

Ate them? Um, they "failed"?

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 04:00:58 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:50:22 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

I had a '93 Eagle Vision TsI that threw a set of wires every fall[*].
The difference between the aftermarket and OEM wires was ~$20 ($80 vs.
$100, IIRC). The kicker was that *every* brand of aftermarket wire
had insulators that were 1/4" too long. The OEM ones fit.

Every year I'd go through the game of trying to convince the guys at
the parts stores that their wires really didn't fit ("See! "They're
TOO LONG!").

[*] Turns out that the plug gap spec on the engine label was wrong. It
specified a .062" gap, which I thought was a little big, but "what the
heck...". The gap *should* have been .035". Doubling the spark
wasn't doing the wires any good. :-(

It "threw" a set of wires???

Ate them? Um, they "failed"?

Ok, failed is good.. Lots of non car people get the terminology mixed up.
Typically an engine will throw " belts". I was a bit confused.

Lew Hodgett wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.


I buy a lot of after market parts, but there are big differences in quality
in the aftermarket. If you know the quality of the stuff you're getting,
there's nothing but savings in it for you, but if you don't - it's a crap
shoot. It can be hard to get specs on some stuff - like plug wires. Some
places like NAPA can tell you the insulation thickness, material, wire
guage, etc. of some of their better stuff, but if you can't find that out...

--

-Mike-

On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 21:39:32 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
I buy a lot of after market parts, but there are big differences in quality
in the aftermarket. If you know the quality of the stuff you're getting,
there's nothing but savings in it for you, but if you don't - it's a crap
shoot. It can be hard to get specs on some stuff - like plug wires. Some
places like NAPA can tell you the insulation thickness, material, wire
guage, etc. of some of their better stuff, but if you can't find that out...

Sounds to me like you've just convinced yourself to buy Festool.



Evil Grin

wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 21:39:32 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
I buy a lot of after market parts, but there are big differences in quality
in the aftermarket. If you know the quality of the stuff you're getting,
there's nothing but savings in it for you, but if you don't - it's a crap
shoot. It can be hard to get specs on some stuff - like plug wires. Some
places like NAPA can tell you the insulation thickness, material, wire
guage, etc. of some of their better stuff, but if you can't find that out...
Sounds to me like you've just convinced yourself to buy Festool.



Evil Grin

Speaking of higher prices, I received the 2014 Grizzly catalog today and
they are. Even higher than the regular prices shown at their web site. I
can't blame them, but gee...

On 12/24/2013 3:06 AM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2013 21:39:32 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
I buy a lot of after market parts, but there are big differences in
quality
in the aftermarket. If you know the quality of the stuff you're
getting,
there's nothing but savings in it for you, but if you don't - it's a
crap
shoot. It can be hard to get specs on some stuff - like plug wires.
Some
places like NAPA can tell you the insulation thickness, material, wire
guage, etc. of some of their better stuff, but if you can't find that
out...
Sounds to me like you've just convinced yourself to buy Festool.



Evil Grin

Speaking of higher prices, I received the 2014 Grizzly catalog today and
they are. Even higher than the regular prices shown at their web site. I
can't blame them, but gee...
I was looking at their web site and thought the prices were higher than
the past. They are starting to price themselves at higher end pricing.
Not yet at the prices for jet but getting there.

--
Jeff

On 12/23/2013 8:50 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.
Geez you don't drive much. My 2004 cars are over 190k.
My 2010 is at 64k... and that's with lots of unemployed time.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew




--
Jeff

"woodchucker" wrote:

Geez you don't drive much. My 2004 cars are over 190k.
------------------------------------------------------------
After averaging 35-40,000 miles/year for over 35 years, I retired.

Today, I drive less than 2,000 miles/year and don't miss it at all.

Lew

On 12/23/2013 7:19 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote:

Geez you don't drive much. My 2004 cars are over 190k.
------------------------------------------------------------
After averaging 35-40,000 miles/year for over 35 years, I retired.

Today, I drive less than 2,000 miles/year and don't miss it at all.

Lew


I gave a 2000 Ford Ranger to my grandson this year. Had 60K miles on
it. Barely broken in. Insurance is quite a bit cheaper.

On 12/25/2013 6:13 PM, jo4hn wrote:

I gave a 2000 Ford Ranger to my grandson this year. Had 60K miles on
it. Barely broken in. Insurance is quite a bit cheaper.


If he is like my grandson it will be gone in a few months anyway.

On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 15:13:04 -0800, jo4hn
wrote:

On 12/23/2013 7:19 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"woodchucker" wrote:

Geez you don't drive much. My 2004 cars are over 190k.
------------------------------------------------------------
After averaging 35-40,000 miles/year for over 35 years, I retired.

Today, I drive less than 2,000 miles/year and don't miss it at all.

Lew


I gave a 2000 Ford Ranger to my grandson this year. Had 60K miles on
it. Barely broken in. Insurance is quite a bit cheaper.

My 2001 Ranger went to the great used parts store in the sky, six
months ago. The real (leaf) spring mounts and where the attached to,
simply vanished. ...and some don't believe salt is bad for you. ;-)

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
maybe not.

I in another life made my living exclusively with selling parts and repairs
and warranty work on GM vehicles.

When I was the service sales manager for an Olds dealer I was once advised
by the Oldsmobile service hot line to use aftermarket parts to solve a
brake problem on a customers vehicle while it was still under warranty.

Our warranty department literally had hundreds of parts, replaced under
warranty, waiting to be inspected by an Olds service rep. Our next door
Toyota dealer had 3 items waiting to be inspected.

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles on it
and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work performed on
it.

On 12/24/2013 4:56 AM, Leon wrote:

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles on it
and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work performed on
it.

on my third Hyundai Sonata since 2007. First two had 70k, present is
30k. No warranty work. Meantime my Buick was just falling apart in the
driveway.

On 12/24/2013 7:24 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/24/2013 4:56 AM, Leon wrote:

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it
and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work performed on
it.

on my third Hyundai Sonata since 2007. First two had 70k, present is
30k. No warranty work. Meantime my Buick was just falling apart in the
driveway.

I had a 1976 Dodge Aspen I got 200k on it before I got rid of it. I
have had a 52 Ford, a 68 Buick, 73 Buick, and several GM vans, and never
had less than 150 miles on any or them. I have never had any problems
except batteries, tires, and a couple of alternators.

I consider a car with 70k just broke in and ready for the next 100k of
trouble free driving.

On 12/24/2013 7:56 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:


I consider a car with 70k just broke in and ready for the next 100k of
trouble free driving.


At 70k my Buick was not broken in, just broke. Transmission, heated
seat, climate control, brake lines, dash lights, steering wheel controls
and more. Had I known you loved cars like that I'd have given it to
you. I did give it away as I felt it unethical to sell it.

At two years and 40k miles the seat heater burned out. To have it
fixed, dealer wanted $672 to replace the entire seat bottom, not just
the element. Since it was under the 3 years but over the miles, I asked
GM for some help. They would give me $500 off if I bought a new car.
Last GM car for me.

On 12/24/2013 9:29 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/24/2013 7:56 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:


I consider a car with 70k just broke in and ready for the next 100k of
trouble free driving.


At 70k my Buick was not broken in, just broke. Transmission, heated
seat, climate control, brake lines, dash lights, steering wheel controls
and more. Had I known you loved cars like that I'd have given it to
you. I did give it away as I felt it unethical to sell it.

At two years and 40k miles the seat heater burned out. To have it
fixed, dealer wanted $672 to replace the entire seat bottom, not just
the element. Since it was under the 3 years but over the miles, I asked
GM for some help. They would give me $500 off if I bought a new car.
Last GM car for me.


FWIW, I, being an ex Olds service manager, still see the things that
went wrong in the 80's still being built the same way in the current
vehicles.
This is especially true on interiors. Same cheap crap.

When we bought our last Toyota in August of last year I had a heck of an
incentive to buy a Buick. The new car sales manager at the dealership
is a customer of mine and he offered me a deal that was hard to turn
down. AND on top of that I had an additional $2300 credit on my old GM
credit card to take off of the total agreed to price.

The Buick was going to be approximately $5000 less than the Camry that
we bought. And we got to take the Buick home for 24 hours as a test
drive. Actually that test drive is probably why we did not buy the car.

On 12/24/2013 10:29 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/24/2013 7:56 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:


I consider a car with 70k just broke in and ready for the next 100k of
trouble free driving.


At 70k my Buick was not broken in, just broke. Transmission, heated
seat, climate control, brake lines, dash lights, steering wheel controls
and more. Had I known you loved cars like that I'd have given it to
you. I did give it away as I felt it unethical to sell it.

At two years and 40k miles the seat heater burned out. To have it
fixed, dealer wanted $672 to replace the entire seat bottom, not just
the element. Since it was under the 3 years but over the miles, I asked
GM for some help. They would give me $500 off if I bought a new car.
Last GM car for me.
When I was youn I built a Camaro race car, I raced it at a road racing
track. not an oval.

I also bought a used BMW 2002..
I never went back to American after that. When I opened the engine,
there was a major difference in machine work. Americans were like
clunkers and the BMW was all machined.. Same with the Honda.

I went to Honda's next for quite a while until I had a problem with
undersize brakes and they kept telling me that no one had that problem..
During a Honda club meeting everyone was complaining about it.
That was my last Honda, as there way of dealing with the problem was to
say it wasn't happening. My wheel would shake violently from undersize
rotors heating up.

I have been in Toyota's camp for a while now.. they are not perfect
either.. But it's been a solid vehichle .... the last 4 have been very good.

I used to compete against many of the engineers for GM and Chrysler at
the nationals.. They explained how Toyotas and Hondas fell apart in the
first couple of months.. I asked them if they had ever been in one..
They would never step foot in one. I told them they would never
understand, and as engineers they should rent one to understand, give it
a month... Very closed minds, and that's why our car makers lost the Car
battle..

In order to know the competition sometimes you need to embrace them...
in their case they just assumed they were better.
--
Jeff

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/24/2013 7:56 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:


I consider a car with 70k just broke in and ready for the next 100k
of trouble free driving.


At 70k my Buick was not broken in, just broke. Transmission, heated
seat, climate control, brake lines, dash lights, steering wheel
controls and more. Had I known you loved cars like that I'd have
given it to you. I did give it away as I felt it unethical to sell
it.
At two years and 40k miles the seat heater burned out. To have it
fixed, dealer wanted $672 to replace the entire seat bottom, not just
the element. Since it was under the 3 years but over the miles, I
asked GM for some help. They would give me $500 off if I bought a
new car. Last GM car for me.

Likewise - after more than 20 years as a died in the wool GM guy, I finally
bought a Hyundai for my wife. Imagine my surprise when over the miles and
over the years, I did not have to crawl under the car or under the roof to
keep making "routine" repairs as I did with all of my previous GM cars. I
did have to replace the brake lines at a point but you can't avoid that in
the rust belt. Beyond that - only a brake job every year and a half or so.
No alternators. No wheel bearings. No crank sensors. No intake manifold
gaskets. I could go on and on. Bottom line - a far more trouble free car
than ANY of the GM's I've ever owned. My GM's were all top end cars -
Buick's, Pontiac's and one not top end... Chevy (car).

As far as I am concerned - GM can suck a root. I think it was unfortunate
that we bailed out a company like that. We should have let them suffer the
consequences of their own actions. But - now we're saddled with them
longer. No problem - the market will take care of that issue...

--

-Mike-

On 12/24/2013 3:56 AM, Leon wrote:
Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles on it
and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work performed on
it.

Not bad, since you only drive it to WoodCraft for Festools.
(g,d&r

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

2) Toyota does not manufacture all of their parts, themselves. They
buy from the same "Tier-1" companies as everyone else.

I in another life made my living exclusively with selling parts and repairs
and warranty work on GM vehicles.

When I was the service sales manager for an Olds dealer I was once advised
by the Oldsmobile service hot line to use aftermarket parts to solve a
brake problem on a customers vehicle while it was still under warranty.

Our warranty department literally had hundreds of parts, replaced under
warranty, waiting to be inspected by an Olds service rep. Our next door
Toyota dealer had 3 items waiting to be inspected.

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles on it
and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work performed on
it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:27:34 -0500, krw wrote:

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

We bought a 2006 PT Cruiser in 2007 that had 18,000 miles on it. We've
still got it. The dealer replaced the leaky rear seal (a known problem)
before he'd let us buy it. Other than normal maintenance, only thing
replaced has been the front brakes at around 50,000. Mileage is now
around 60,000 mostly city miles with a lot of stop and go driving. We're
pretty happy with the car.

I see a lot of them on the road and very few in the for sale ads. The
owners must like them. So of course Chrysler stopped making them :-).

BTW, with the seats folded down I can carry 8' lumber - one of the
reasons I selected it.

--
This message was for rec.woodworking - if it appears in homeownershub
they ripped it off.

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 18:04:47 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:27:34 -0500, krw wrote:

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

We bought a 2006 PT Cruiser in 2007 that had 18,000 miles on it. We've
still got it. The dealer replaced the leaky rear seal (a known problem)
before he'd let us buy it. Other than normal maintenance, only thing
replaced has been the front brakes at around 50,000. Mileage is now
around 60,000 mostly city miles with a lot of stop and go driving. We're
pretty happy with the car.

I see a lot of them on the road and very few in the for sale ads. The
owners must like them. So of course Chrysler stopped making them :-).

BTW, with the seats folded down I can carry 8' lumber - one of the
reasons I selected it.

I could get 10' lumber in my Voyagers but they still sucked. Neither
made it to 10 years or 100K miles. Neither did my Vision TSi or the
Chrysler Intrepid.

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.
That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.
I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

LOL (best joke of the day, so far!)

On 12/24/2013 1:53 PM, Bill wrote:
I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

When we were married 46 years ago my future brother in law told me that
I would soon have to replace my 68 Buick with 100k, I got rid of it when
it hit 170k, because I wanted a new car.

Unless a car is a piece of garbage, any car should give at lease 100k
trouble free miles. That mileage should be in all kinds of conditions,
over 70mph on hours Interstates and days driving around town. When my
76 Aspen had over 100k I started to use it for a weekly commute on I-95
from Carolina to Maryland. I was putting on about 500 miles per week, I
got rid of that car when it hit 200k

If you drive a car 5 to 10 miles per day any car will fail as the
engines never get up to their designed operating temperatures that keep
the engine and systems clean. The muffler system and other parts never
get hot enough to dry them out, and the water collects and rust the
systems. Gaskets dry out and fail as they never get completely
lubricated.

Bottom line there is nothing to brag about if your car has less the 100k.

Bill wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.
That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.
I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

LOL (best joke of the day, so far!)

Actually if you were the service manager of an American car builder saying
a 1 day old car not having a problem is not the usual. You would be
surprised how much warranty work gets done before delivery if you have a
good make ready department. A so so make ready department and the
customer gets to bring it back in...

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:43:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when
we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have
been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously
incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.

The convertible is a lot of fun to drive, though. ;-)

wrote:


OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when
we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have
been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously
incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.


Ugh! That would be annoying.

--

-Mike-

On 12/24/2013 5:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:43:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when
we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have
been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously
incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.

The convertible is a lot of fun to drive, though. ;-)



I remember when the Federal Government changed that tax laws on the
inventories. After that point the service went down because inventories
were fully taxed each year and a company could not afford to maintain
the complete inventories they had previous.y

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 17:48:14 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 13:43:03 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."

OTOH, my wife's '14 Mustang was back in the shop 6 times (twice when
we were on vacation), the first month we had it. They should have
been able to fix it on the first try but they were obviously
incompetent. They don't keep any parts on hand, so any service turns
into at least two trips to the dealer.

The convertible is a lot of fun to drive, though. ;-)

You need my Ford dealer, they have been in business here almost a
hundred years. They do it by good quality service.

Mark

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:


Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles
on it and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work
performed on it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

I agree. I do not consider 15,000 miles or 16 months of age to be any sort
of endorsment of anything. Might just as well say "I just picked up my new
car today, and I haven't had a single problem yet..."


I consider it good since I have not ever had a vehicle that made it that
long with out needing some king of warranty work..
That included Honda and Acura.

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.



2) Toyota does not manufacture all of their parts, themselves. They
buy from the same "Tier-1" companies as everyone else.


Again no one mentioned that they did. However they do not use after market
parts unless they meet specifications dictated to qualify as OEM.
GM owned a brand, Delco. Delco made lots of replacement parts for GM
vehicles. Also available Exclusively through GM were OEM parts referred to
as "Target" parts. Many of these parts had the Target Parts logo on the
packaging but were not necessarily manufactured by a GM owned company.
These parts were OEM. Not all brand after market parts would qualify as
OEM.

There is a lot of after market that does not qualify as OEM.

What I am saying is that Toyota uses better quality parts regardless of who
makes them than the less expensive brands that do not measure up.




I in another life made my living exclusively with selling parts and repairs
and warranty work on GM vehicles.

When I was the service sales manager for an Olds dealer I was once advised
by the Oldsmobile service hot line to use aftermarket parts to solve a
brake problem on a customers vehicle while it was still under warranty.

Our warranty department literally had hundreds of parts, replaced under
warranty, waiting to be inspected by an Olds service rep. Our next door
Toyota dealer had 3 items waiting to be inspected.

Our latest Toyota vehicle that my wife drives has about 15,000 miles on it
and is 16 months old. We have yet to have any warranty work performed on
it.

That's not surprising. I'm sure there is even a Chrysler, out there
somewhere, that's a couple of years old that hasn't had warranty work
done on it.

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:54 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
^^^^^^^^
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.

What confused me was, "Toyota does not use after market parts to
manufacture their vehicles."

How can they? ...by the definition of the terms.

stuff resulting from the above misunderstanding, snipped

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 23:13:54 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 03:56:25 -0600, Leon wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
I have a 1999 Toyota Tacoma P/U truck with 128,000 miles on it.

Today it started running "Rough" so stopped by my mechanic to
have it checked out.

Turns out that a spark plug wire had shorted out.

An after market set of four (4) wires were $48 while wires from Toyota
were $83.

Looks like a straight forward decision, after market parts are the
way to go, but there is one more piece of information that is needed
to
be known.

The original wires lasted 90,000 miles with no problems when they
were changed out with an after market set of wires which only lasted
38,000 before failure.

Based on that information, the Toyota set of wires for $83 looks like
the best deal, and they were installed.

Time will tell if I made the correct decision.

Lew

There is a reason that Toyota is one of the most reliable brand vehicles on
the planet. Toyota does not use after market parts to manufacture their
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
vehicles. I think you made the right decision Lew. Other brand vehicles,
^^^^^^^^
maybe not.

Huh?

1) The parts an OEM uses to manufacture their cars are, by definition,
NOT "after market".

OEM was never previously mentioned, until you must mentioned.
OEM and after market are NOT necessarily the same. OEM parts are
manufactured to a specific standard. Not all after market parts are.

What confused me was, "Toyota does not use after market parts to
manufacture their vehicles."

How can they? ...by the definition of the terms.

stuff resulting from the above misunderstanding, snipped

LOL