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#1
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
We still haven't settled on our book storage plans. Now I'm
considering a design that would involve shelves on both sides of a wide cabinet divided in the middle, but not in line with each other. The cabinet would be 54" high by 48" wide, with a vertical divider a little off-center. To one side of the divider there would be 4 shelf spaces each 12" high. On the other side would be 3 shelf spaces, each 18" high. (all numbers approximate, I know the thickness of the wood will change the exact dimensions). The dadoes on opposite sides of the divider would then be about six inches apart. All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
Greg Guarino wrote:
All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? Yes - it would be fine to dado both sides of a board. Make sure your shelves fit snugly into your dados and once they're glued up it will be as if it were a solid piece. -- -Mike- |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/11/12 9:26 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
We still haven't settled on our book storage plans. Now I'm considering a design that would involve shelves on both sides of a wide cabinet divided in the middle, but not in line with each other. The cabinet would be 54" high by 48" wide, with a vertical divider a little off-center. To one side of the divider there would be 4 shelf spaces each 12" high. On the other side would be 3 shelf spaces, each 18" high. (all numbers approximate, I know the thickness of the wood will change the exact dimensions). The dadoes on opposite sides of the divider would then be about six inches apart. All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? Dadoes on both sides of a sheet of plywood would be fine. However, if it's easier to build two cases, do it. It's not that much more material and there's nothing wrong with it, if the design calls for a center divider. IMO a bookcase that is wider than it is tall looks odd and.... sideways.... so a divider is nice, esthetically. I'm starting a build-in bookcase project that will be 64" wide x floor to ceiling. I'm breaking it up into two 32" wide cases for two reasons-- sheet goods are 48" and who in their right mind would try to build a single case that big. :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
"Greg Guarino" wrote: We still haven't settled on our book storage plans. Now I'm considering a design that would involve shelves on both sides of a wide cabinet divided in the middle, but not in line with each other. The cabinet would be 54" high by 48" wide, with a vertical divider a little off-center. To one side of the divider there would be 4 shelf spaces each 12" high. On the other side would be 3 shelf spaces, each 18" high. (all numbers approximate, I know the thickness of the wood will change the exact dimensions). The dadoes on opposite sides of the divider would then be about six inches apart. All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? ---------------------------------------------------------------- No problem structurally; however, you are going to be busier than a one armed paper hanger in a wind storm trying to get everything aligned before your adhesive fires. You are going to want the longest open time adhesive you can find. I'd use epoxy with a slow hardener which will give you about 30 minutes open time at 75F. A good helper will be a big help. Have fun. Lew |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
Greg Guarino wrote:
We still haven't settled on our book storage plans. Now I'm considering a design that would involve shelves on both sides of a wide cabinet divided in the middle, but not in line with each other. The cabinet would be 54" high by 48" wide, with a vertical divider a little off-center. To one side of the divider there would be 4 shelf spaces each 12" high. On the other side would be 3 shelf spaces, each 18" high. (all numbers approximate, I know the thickness of the wood will change the exact dimensions). The dadoes on opposite sides of the divider would then be about six inches apart. All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? Sure, you have our permission to do that. Mine at least. For that matter - should you want the shelves in the same plane - you can cut the dado all the way through except for a few inches at each end and notch the shelves appropriately. A variation on notching the shelves would be to make rabbets...on one shelf, make a 3/4 x 3/8 rabbet on the top; same on the other shelf but at the bottom. Rabbet size depends on ply thickness but the goal is to have one shelf rabbet resting on the other. Still another variation that comes to mind would be to make a series of half through slots, each maybe 2" long from each side but staggered so that none go all the way through. Then cut fingers on the shelfs. One of the joys of woodworking is that with a fertile mind one can come up with all sorts of ways to complicate things. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#6
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
Greg Guarino wrote:
, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? Perfectly OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, even if they are in line with each other, as long as you fill them with shelf. -- www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile) |
#7
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/11/2012 10:35 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote: All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? Yes - it would be fine to dado both sides of a board. Make sure your shelves fit snugly into your dados and once they're glued up it will be as if it were a solid piece. So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? |
#8
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:15:44 -0500, Greg Guarino
So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? Plywood thickness is *EXTREMELY* unpredictable these days and has been for a number of years. You might get lucky and be able to find a router bit perfectly sized for the plywood on hand, but the chances of that happening are almost nil. Sorry, but multiple router passes are usually the norm if you want your dados sized properly. On thing you might consider, is an adjustable dado blade for the table saw. Get that sized properly and *then* you can do your single passes. |
#9
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/11/2012 10:59 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
However, if it's easier to build two cases, do it. It's not that much more material and there's nothing wrong with it, if the design calls for a center divider. My "design" (more of a half-assed idea so far) was based on two factors: the size and the weight of the books to be stored. These bookshelves will hold books mostly, rather than the usual bric-a-brac. The spaces available are 4' wide, but I don't feel quite right about shelves 48" long. Plus, some of the books are very tall, but most are not. Thus I'll need some tall shelf spaces and some less so. I was originally going to make the lowest shelf tall and the rest shorter, but if I need a divider anyway, I think it will add some visual interest to break it up the way I described. IMO a bookcase that is wider than it is tall looks odd and.... sideways.... so a divider is nice, esthetically. These bookcases will actually sit atop a set of existing cubbyhole units that span a whole wall. The two new bookcases will be placed at either end, with a TV in the middle. Assuming all goes well (and I live long enough, given my less-than-efficient woodworking methods) I may complete a faux built-in with a "bridge" over the TV between the two units. Anticipating the obvious question, yes, I will be anchoring the units into the wall as well. That is, until the plan changes entirely. We'll see. |
#10
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/12/2012 2:16 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
No problem structurally; however, you are going to be busier than a one armed paper hanger in a wind storm trying to get everything aligned before your adhesive fires. That's an oldie. My Dad's version was "a one-armed paper hanger with an itch". And yes, I now recognize that the choice is between building separate units and bursting a blood vessel in my temple. I'm leaning toward the former. You are going to want the longest open time adhesive you can find. I'd use epoxy with a slow hardener which will give you about 30 minutes open time at 75F. I've only used regular yellow wood glue, for wood anyway. I have used two part epoxy for other things. Is there epoxy especially for woodworking? |
#11
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/12/2012 5:27 AM, dadiOH wrote:
One of the joys of woodworking is that with a fertile mind one can come up with all sorts of ways to complicate things. Definitely. A novice like me can come up with some really "special" ideas. Trust me. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 12/11/2012 10:35 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Greg Guarino wrote: All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? Yes - it would be fine to dado both sides of a board. Make sure your shelves fit snugly into your dados and once they're glued up it will be as if it were a solid piece. So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? I honestly don't know. Haven't dadoed a piece of plywood into a board in too long. Well - I have, but in those cases I had to make multiple passes anyway, so it didn't matter. I use my router too. I don't do enough dados to warrant buying a dado blade and farting around getting it setup and all. I just chuck a router bit and go at it. That process has never caused me a problem. I wouldn't sweat making multiple passes if that's what's necessary. Just make all of your passes that use the same fence setting before moving your fence to make any next passes, and then do them all at once. -- -Mike- |
#13
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
Greg Guarino wrote:
So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? IMO you'd be better off making your dados 1/2" and cutting tongues to fit on the shelf ends. The shoulder of the tongue will then limit the depth the shelf can be inserted and hide any unevenness on the dado. Double shoulders (top and bottom) are even better. Again, IMO, YMMV. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 12/12/2012 2:16 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote: No problem structurally; however, you are going to be busier than a one armed paper hanger in a wind storm trying to get everything aligned before your adhesive fires. That's an oldie. My Dad's version was "a one-armed paper hanger with an itch". And yes, I now recognize that the choice is between building separate units and bursting a blood vessel in my temple. I'm leaning toward the former. You are going to want the longest open time adhesive you can find. I'd use epoxy with a slow hardener which will give you about 30 minutes open time at 75F. I've only used regular yellow wood glue, for wood anyway. I have used two part epoxy for other things. Is there epoxy especially for woodworking? No but there are various hardeners which cause the epoxy to set up slower/faster. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#15
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
"Greg Guarino" wrote: You are going to want the longest open time adhesive you can find. I'd use epoxy with a slow hardener which will give you about 30 minutes open time at 75F. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've only used regular yellow wood glue, for wood anyway. I have used two part epoxy for other things. Is there epoxy especially for woodworking? ------------------------------------------------------------ There are lots of epoxy suppliers out there. There are only 3-5 manufacturers of part A; however, there are litterly hundreds of part B suppliers which is where all the black art of formulation gets involved. WEST Systems probably has the widest distribution. I have a preference for System3. http://tinyurl.com/bx584yx Epoxy is basically an adhesive, it works very well gluing wood together. You want standard laminating part A resin and the slowest part B hardener for this project. You will make life easier at assembly time by toe nailing shelves into grooves at assembly time, then clamping at final assembly. When using a router for dado grooves, easiest solution is to make two passes using a jig. Leon has a jig he developed for the purpose. Maybe he will post details again. Lew |
#16
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/12/2012 9:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j4vGS4HY-8 Or Leon has one that he designed a few years back and might have a Sketchup model? -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#17
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/12/2012 10:23 AM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:15:44 -0500, Greg Guarino So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? Plywood thickness is *EXTREMELY* unpredictable these days and has been for a number of years. You might get lucky and be able to find a router bit perfectly sized for the plywood on hand, but the chances of that happening are almost nil. I knew one of you killjoys were going to say that. So now I suppose you'll be recommending I get a guide collar for the router or some such. I have some ideas. Let's see how stupid they are. My first thought was to use two parallel guides clamped to the work, spaced apart just far enough so that two passes (one pass touching one guide, one touching the other) would produce the proper dado width. I have one of those self-clamping straightedge gizmos, and I have some non-self-clamping extruded aluminum guides. I'd use some combination. So next I thought, hey, that'll be a drag to set up 36 times. Maybe I'll cut a couple of pieces of scrap just the right length to set the span between the two guides. That would work, I think, but all you guys would snicker about how clumsy it was. We can't have that, can we? So now I wonder if I couldn't make a rectangular jig of some sort, consisting of two wooden guides joined by two other pieces to set the correct distance. Those pieces would ride along the edges of the work to be cut, sitting flush with the top. (all of the pieces that will need these dadoes will be the same width, probably 12")On the first cut, the "joining" pieces would themselves receive a dado groove, which I could then use to line up each new dado to be cut in the work pieces. I think this would work, and could be easily clamped to each new position. But I worry that my abilities may not allow me to produce a jig as square and straight as would be needed. I'm also wondering if I could get away with dadoing a pair of "mating" uprights in one pass by lining them up next to each other. That way the dadoes would be sure to line up on both sides of each shelf, but it would mean reaching farther with the router too, and would make for a longer jig, more prone to be out of square. |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/12/2012 9:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 12/11/2012 10:35 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Greg Guarino wrote: All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? Yes - it would be fine to dado both sides of a board. Make sure your shelves fit snugly into your dados and once they're glued up it will be as if it were a solid piece. So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? The simplest solution is to clamp a board where you want the board/panel to fit. Place the board/panel that will fit into that dado against the clamped board. Clamp another board on the other side. Basically you are clamping 2 boards the exact width of the piece that will go into the dado. With a top bearing 1/2" flush cut bit use the clamped rails as your guide and remove everything in between. Should be a perfect fit. |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message ... On 12/11/2012 10:35 PM, Mike Marlow wrote: Greg Guarino wrote: All shelves would be fixed. There would be a face frame, and a back. I'm wondering if I should simply make the cabinet as two separate boxes, joining them together after both are assembled. That would give me a double-thickness center divider, but there would be a 1x2 covering the seam anyway. This idea appeals to me because I think it will be easier to handle two smaller, simpler units than one large one. But if do decide to make the cabinet as a single unit, is it OK to make dadoes in both sides of the center divider, as long as none of them are in line with each other? Yes - it would be fine to dado both sides of a board. Make sure your shelves fit snugly into your dados and once they're glued up it will be as if it were a solid piece. So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? ================================================== ====================== A router jig can be easily made that cuts exact size of your material. |
#20
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/12/2012 4:31 PM, Leon wrote:
On 12/12/2012 9:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? The simplest solution is to clamp a board where you want the board/panel to fit. Place the board/panel that will fit into that dado against the clamped board. Clamp another board on the other side. Basically you are clamping 2 boards the exact width of the piece that will go into the dado. With a top bearing 1/2" flush cut bit use the clamped rails as your guide and remove everything in between. Should be a perfect fit. A "top-bearing" bit. You see, that's why I ask questions here. I had no idea such bits existed. I had only seen (and have one or two of) what I thought was the only kind, for laminate trimming and such. Excellent. I still think I'll make a jig something like what I had in mind, but with a narrow slot in the middle instead. Thanks. |
#21
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
Greg Guarino wrote:
A "top-bearing" bit. You see, that's why I ask questions here. I had no idea such bits existed. I had only seen (and have one or two of) what I thought was the only kind, for laminate trimming and such. Excellent. I still think I'll make a jig something like what I had in mind, but with a narrow slot in the middle instead. Thanks. A top bearing bit will certainly work and represents another way to skin a cat, but that will not change they type or size of slot you need/want. To make your jig more universal, you'll still want to make an adjustable jig like what's on the internet. It takes a bit longer to make, but it saves a ton of time in properly sizing your dado to the workpiece you are using, and it does not care about irregular workpiece dimensions. -- -Mike- |
#22
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
"Greg Guarino" wrote: I knew one of you killjoys were going to say that. So now I suppose you'll be recommending I get a guide collar for the router or some such. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Also go to Pat Warner's site and get his little gizmo that insures base plate and guide bushing are centered with bit. -------------------------------------------------------------- I have some ideas. Let's see how stupid they are. --------------------------------------------------------------- Not stupid at all. Either build the jig shown on U-tube or ping Leon and get his plan. No need to reinvent the wheel. Lew |
#23
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/13/2012 9:00 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 12/12/2012 4:31 PM, Leon wrote: On 12/12/2012 9:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? The simplest solution is to clamp a board where you want the board/panel to fit. Place the board/panel that will fit into that dado against the clamped board. Clamp another board on the other side. Basically you are clamping 2 boards the exact width of the piece that will go into the dado. With a top bearing 1/2" flush cut bit use the clamped rails as your guide and remove everything in between. Should be a perfect fit. A "top-bearing" bit. You see, that's why I ask questions here. I had no idea such bits existed. I had only seen (and have one or two of) what I thought was the only kind, for laminate trimming and such. Excellent. I still think I'll make a jig something like what I had in mind, but with a narrow slot in the middle instead. Thanks. I came up with a jig that several years ago that is similar to the one in the wood whisperer video. Mine closes in width and length and holds its settings. Any way most all of these type dado jigs call for a bushing to keep the bit from hitting the jig. I hate those things as they have to be perfectly centered with the router or you get wider and or narrower cuts if you rotate the router as you feed it along. With the top bearing flush trim bit you get a perfect cut along your guide whether you rotate the router or not and you do not have to deal with a bushing. I use something like this, http://www.amazon.com/Freud-50-102-2...flush+trim+bit |
#24
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/13/12 2:16 PM, Leon wrote:
On 12/13/2012 9:00 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: On 12/12/2012 4:31 PM, Leon wrote: On 12/12/2012 9:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? The simplest solution is to clamp a board where you want the board/panel to fit. Place the board/panel that will fit into that dado against the clamped board. Clamp another board on the other side. Basically you are clamping 2 boards the exact width of the piece that will go into the dado. With a top bearing 1/2" flush cut bit use the clamped rails as your guide and remove everything in between. Should be a perfect fit. A "top-bearing" bit. You see, that's why I ask questions here. I had no idea such bits existed. I had only seen (and have one or two of) what I thought was the only kind, for laminate trimming and such. Excellent. I still think I'll make a jig something like what I had in mind, but with a narrow slot in the middle instead. Thanks. I came up with a jig that several years ago that is similar to the one in the wood whisperer video. Mine closes in width and length and holds its settings. Any way most all of these type dado jigs call for a bushing to keep the bit from hitting the jig. I hate those things as they have to be perfectly centered with the router or you get wider and or narrower cuts if you rotate the router as you feed it along. With the top bearing flush trim bit you get a perfect cut along your guide whether you rotate the router or not and you do not have to deal with a bushing. That's the problem I had with his video. Well, the other problem. The first problem is him getting waaaaaay too detailed on each step. We're talking about trying to cut dadoes the exact width of a piece of wood. And he's using a bushing... those things never get perfectly centered. So you essentially have a technique with a margin of error greater than what I could cut dadoes sans jig. :-) -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#25
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/13/2012 2:16 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
I have some ideas. Let's see how stupid they are. --------------------------------------------------------------- Not stupid at all. Either build the jig shown on U-tube Wow. I finally got a moment to look at this (I skipped to the end) and it is remarkably similar to what I had envisioned, minus the adjustability and the collar. I don't have a collar, nor do I think my router will easily accept one without an adapter. I'd probably give the top-guide bit a whirl. As for adjustability, I've got to think on that. I'm an occasional weekend dabbler with much less time than I would like. I could screw the thing together at a a fixed width much more quickly (although I have to say, using a clamp while setting the width looks like a great idea). Shortsighted? I guess so. And I'll have to kick myself if I don't get it right the first time. I'll think about it. Thanks. |
#26
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
"Greg Guarino" wrote: Wow. I finally got a moment to look at this (I skipped to the end) and it is remarkably similar to what I had envisioned, minus the adjustability and the collar. I don't have a collar, nor do I think my router will easily accept one without an adapter. I'd probably give the top-guide bit a whirl. --------------------------------------------------- A pattern bit (top bearing) has severe limitations for cutting dadoes compared to a guide bushing. A full set of brass guide bushings was less than $30 the last time I looked. What ever the price, they represent a good investment if you use a router. Lew |
#27
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/13/2012 2:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/13/12 2:16 PM, Leon wrote: On 12/13/2012 9:00 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: On 12/12/2012 4:31 PM, Leon wrote: On 12/12/2012 9:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: So there's my next question. My only option for making dadoes is a router, and I'd love to avoid making extra passes. If I buy a 23/32 bit, will I be OK? Or is plywood thickness too unpredictable these days? The simplest solution is to clamp a board where you want the board/panel to fit. Place the board/panel that will fit into that dado against the clamped board. Clamp another board on the other side. Basically you are clamping 2 boards the exact width of the piece that will go into the dado. With a top bearing 1/2" flush cut bit use the clamped rails as your guide and remove everything in between. Should be a perfect fit. A "top-bearing" bit. You see, that's why I ask questions here. I had no idea such bits existed. I had only seen (and have one or two of) what I thought was the only kind, for laminate trimming and such. Excellent. I still think I'll make a jig something like what I had in mind, but with a narrow slot in the middle instead. Thanks. I came up with a jig that several years ago that is similar to the one in the wood whisperer video. Mine closes in width and length and holds its settings. Any way most all of these type dado jigs call for a bushing to keep the bit from hitting the jig. I hate those things as they have to be perfectly centered with the router or you get wider and or narrower cuts if you rotate the router as you feed it along. With the top bearing flush trim bit you get a perfect cut along your guide whether you rotate the router or not and you do not have to deal with a bushing. That's the problem I had with his video. Well, the other problem. The first problem is him getting waaaaaay too detailed on each step. We're talking about trying to cut dadoes the exact width of a piece of wood. And he's using a bushing... those things never get perfectly centered. So you essentially have a technique with a margin of error greater than what I could cut dadoes sans jig. :-) As soon as he mentioned the bushing I quit watching. |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:16:44 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
With the top bearing flush trim bit you get a perfect cut along your guide whether you rotate the router or not and you do not have to deal with a bushing. I use something like this, http://www.amazon.com/Freud-50-102-2...flush+trim+bit And, the Lee Valley version http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/pag...435,46171&ap=1 |
#29
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:02:25 -0500, Greg Guarino
wrote: On 12/13/2012 2:16 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: I have some ideas. Let's see how stupid they are. --------------------------------------------------------------- Not stupid at all. Either build the jig shown on U-tube Wow. I finally got a moment to look at this (I skipped to the end) and it is remarkably similar to what I had envisioned, minus the adjustability and the collar. I don't have a collar, nor do I think my router will easily accept one without an adapter. I'd probably give the top-guide bit a whirl. As for adjustability, I've got to think on that. I'm an occasional weekend dabbler with much less time than I would like. I could screw the thing together at a a fixed width much more quickly (although I have to say, using a clamp while setting the width looks like a great idea). Shortsighted? I guess so. And I'll have to kick myself if I don't get it right the first time. I'll think about it. Thanks. My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb (at) telus.net GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
#30
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote:
My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:38:15 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote: On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. No - my dado jig uses two pieces as described, joined similarly to the Woodwhisperer's dado jig, but it uses the router base as the guide, rather than requiring a guide bushing or a bearing on the bit. (maybe I should take a picture of it, and post it somewhere...) -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb (at) telus.net GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
#32
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/14/12 12:54 PM, Peter Bennett wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:38:15 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. No - my dado jig uses two pieces as described, joined similarly to the Woodwhisperer's dado jig, but it uses the router base as the guide, rather than requiring a guide bushing or a bearing on the bit. (maybe I should take a picture of it, and post it somewhere...) No, I think I understand. The 1/4" plywood on both sides is what "clamps" tightly around the material to be inserted into the dado to insure a perfect size. Correct? If so, that's a great alternative. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/14/2012 1:54 PM, Peter Bennett wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:38:15 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. No - my dado jig uses two pieces as described, joined similarly to the Woodwhisperer's dado jig, but it uses the router base as the guide, rather than requiring a guide bushing or a bearing on the bit. (maybe I should take a picture of it, and post it somewhere...) Now that sounds like the idea I had. The two guides are separated by a distance equal to the diameter of the router base plus the thickness of the stock to go in the dado, right? The router base rides along one guide first, then the other? I figured if I did this the first pass would cut a dado in the pieces that join the two guides together, thereby giving me registration marks to line up the cut with. The pattern bit idea sounds even more foolproof though, at least to my untutored ear. |
#34
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/14/2012 1:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 12/14/2012 1:54 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:38:15 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. No - my dado jig uses two pieces as described, joined similarly to the Woodwhisperer's dado jig, but it uses the router base as the guide, rather than requiring a guide bushing or a bearing on the bit. (maybe I should take a picture of it, and post it somewhere...) Now that sounds like the idea I had. The two guides are separated by a distance equal to the diameter of the router base plus the thickness of the stock to go in the dado, right? The router base rides along one guide first, then the other? I figured if I did this the first pass would cut a dado in the pieces that join the two guides together, thereby giving me registration marks to line up the cut with. The pattern bit idea sounds even more foolproof though, at least to my untutored ear. the problem with this is that the bit usually isn't dead center in the base. if you twist the router on it's trip across the board, you'll get a wavy edge to the dado. |
#35
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/14/12 2:20 PM, chaniarts wrote:
On 12/14/2012 1:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote: On 12/14/2012 1:54 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:38:15 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. No - my dado jig uses two pieces as described, joined similarly to the Woodwhisperer's dado jig, but it uses the router base as the guide, rather than requiring a guide bushing or a bearing on the bit. (maybe I should take a picture of it, and post it somewhere...) Now that sounds like the idea I had. The two guides are separated by a distance equal to the diameter of the router base plus the thickness of the stock to go in the dado, right? The router base rides along one guide first, then the other? I figured if I did this the first pass would cut a dado in the pieces that join the two guides together, thereby giving me registration marks to line up the cut with. The pattern bit idea sounds even more foolproof though, at least to my untutored ear. the problem with this is that the bit usually isn't dead center in the base. if you twist the router on it's trip across the board, you'll get a wavy edge to the dado. That's the same for any router, any jig, and it's compounded with guide bushings. Most experienced router users know to keep the router in the same relative position and not rotate during the length of a cut. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#36
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
"chaniarts" wrote: the problem with this is that the bit usually isn't dead center in the base. if you twist the router on it's trip across the board, you'll get a wavy edge to the dado. ----------------------------------------------------------- That's why you get Pat Warner's gizmo. Pat has solved that problem. Lew |
#37
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/14/2012 2:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 12/14/2012 1:54 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:38:15 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. No - my dado jig uses two pieces as described, joined similarly to the Woodwhisperer's dado jig, but it uses the router base as the guide, rather than requiring a guide bushing or a bearing on the bit. (maybe I should take a picture of it, and post it somewhere...) Now that sounds like the idea I had. The two guides are separated by a distance equal to the diameter of the router base plus the thickness of the stock to go in the dado, right? The router base rides along one guide first, then the other? I figured if I did this the first pass would cut a dado in the pieces that join the two guides together, thereby giving me registration marks to line up the cut with. The pattern bit idea sounds even more foolproof though, at least to my untutored ear. All basically the same principle ... the edge of the router plate in this one takes the place of the bearing in the top bearing bit method, or the edge of the guide bushing in the other method. IMO, the problem with the all the router methods boils down to the use of a wooden jig, which is prone to the dimensional instability of wood; and/or the concentricity of a router plate; either with the potential to effect accuracy over time. With the router methods, and having tried them all, the top bearing bit gave me the most accurate (but I'd want to joint those two guide edges for starters when making the jig) and, because of wood's eventual instability, or Murphy biting me in the ass, I found myself having to re-make said jigs over time. The latter being why I much prefer doing dadoes and rabbets on the TS with my Freud Dial-a-Width dado stack, particularly if doing more than a one-off piece. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#38
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On 12/14/2012 1:24 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 12/14/12 2:20 PM, chaniarts wrote: On 12/14/2012 1:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote: On 12/14/2012 1:54 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:38:15 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. No - my dado jig uses two pieces as described, joined similarly to the Woodwhisperer's dado jig, but it uses the router base as the guide, rather than requiring a guide bushing or a bearing on the bit. (maybe I should take a picture of it, and post it somewhere...) Now that sounds like the idea I had. The two guides are separated by a distance equal to the diameter of the router base plus the thickness of the stock to go in the dado, right? The router base rides along one guide first, then the other? I figured if I did this the first pass would cut a dado in the pieces that join the two guides together, thereby giving me registration marks to line up the cut with. The pattern bit idea sounds even more foolproof though, at least to my untutored ear. the problem with this is that the bit usually isn't dead center in the base. if you twist the router on it's trip across the board, you'll get a wavy edge to the dado. That's the same for any router, any jig, and it's compounded with guide bushings. Most experienced router users know to keep the router in the same relative position and not rotate during the length of a cut. and if you put the router down in a slightly skewed position on the next one than the previous one, you don't get a repeatable width dado because the router base may not be circular. |
#39
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
Greg Guarino wrote:
Now that sounds like the idea I had. The two guides are separated by a distance equal to the diameter of the router base plus the thickness of the stock to go in the dado, right? The router base rides along one guide first, then the other? I figured if I did this the first pass would cut a dado in the pieces that join the two guides together, thereby giving me registration marks to line up the cut with. The pattern bit idea sounds even more foolproof though, at least to my untutored ear. You've got it correct Greg, but do yourself a favor and look at the YouTube videos on these things. You will easily find the type of jig you've described here as well as other types. I'm not a fan of the pattern bit or the collar idea, although both represent different approaches to the same problem. I like the idea of registering the router base agains the guide rails myself, but I guess that's just opinion. -- -Mike- |
#40
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Dadoes in both sides of 3/4" ply?
On Fri, 14 Dec 2012 13:09:45 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote: On 12/14/12 12:54 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:38:15 -0600, -MIKE- wrote: On 12/13/12 8:19 PM, Peter Bennett wrote: My router dado jig doesn't need guide bushings or a top bearing bit - it guides the router base. each side of the guide consists of two pieces - a wide piece of 1/4" plywood that the router rides on, and a (straight!) piece of 1/2" plywood, or similar piece of solid wood glued on top. Before the first use, run the router along the jig with the base against the 1/2" board, so the router bit can trim the 1/4" plywood to the correct size. The jigs we're discussing adjust for the thickness of the board that will go into the dado. If I understand correctly, all your jig does is allow you to line up perfectly with a marked line, like a circular saw rip guide. No - my dado jig uses two pieces as described, joined similarly to the Woodwhisperer's dado jig, but it uses the router base as the guide, rather than requiring a guide bushing or a bearing on the bit. (maybe I should take a picture of it, and post it somewhere...) No, I think I understand. The 1/4" plywood on both sides is what "clamps" tightly around the material to be inserted into the dado to insure a perfect size. Correct? If so, that's a great alternative. Yes - photos now posted: http://www3.telus.net/peterbb/dado_jig1.jpg http://www3.telus.net/peterbb/dado_jig4.jpg There may be a slight problem with this if the bit is not centered in the base - but if you don't turn the router as you slide it along, this shouldn't be a problem. The B&D router I use with this jig has two flat sides on the base, so I can't turn it too far without ruining everything anyway... -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb (at) telus.net GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
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