Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across. Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom

Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet.

Would a handheld router with an clamp-on guide make you feel more
comfortable? If something feels wrong, or even a little
uncomfortable, I always try to find a different way to get the job
done. The router might take a little longer, but you could get a
23/32" plywood bit, which should take off 1/4" deep with no problem,
and a clamp guide something like this: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16448
Keep on thinking before you cut,
Andy

In article om,
tom wrote:
-------------------------

Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across. Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom


Personally, the router is one of my least-liked tools and the table saw
one of my favorites, but in this case I would cut the dadoes with a
router and straight edge guide.


--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

tom wrote:
Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet.
snip

As others have suggested, a router, but with two (2) straight edges,
one on either side of the dado.

That way, the router is trapped with no chance of a run away cut.

If these are 3/4" W dadoes, I'd use a 1/2" bit and cut both directions.

Have fun.

Lew

tom wrote:
: Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
: sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
: 48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
: fence.

I thought that using the fence for a cross-cut was a no-no - too much
chance of the wood binding between the fence and the blade. I'd use a
router, but if I used a table saw I'd use a sled or at least a miter
gage.

I've heard that if you want to use the fence on a cross-cut so that
you can make multiple cuts of the same length, then you attach a stop
block to the fence before the blade, use that to position and clamp
the stock to the sled (or miter gage), and make sure that the stock
clears the stop-block before it contacts the blade.

Do I have this wrong?

--- Chip

On Fri, 25 May 2007 04:21:01 +0000 (UTC), "Chip Buchholtz"
wrote:

tom wrote:
....
I've heard that if you want to use the fence on a cross-cut so that
you can make multiple cuts of the same length, then you attach a stop
block to the fence before the blade, use that to position and clamp
the stock to the sled (or miter gage), and make sure that the stock
clears the stop-block before it contacts the blade.

Do I have this wrong?

--- Chip

No, you don't have it wrong. A very useful tablesaw accessory is a 1"
block used for that very purpose. Set the fence up for the needed
dimension + 1", then make the cuts referenced to the stop block. No
binding, no kickbacks, very repeatable.

Tom Veatch wrote:

No, you don't have it wrong. A very useful tablesaw accessory is a 1"
block used for that very purpose.

Guess that is one of the reasons why the UniFence was invented, no
stop block needed.

Lew

Chip Buchholtz wrote:
tom wrote:
Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence.

I thought that using the fence for a cross-cut was a no-no - too much
chance of the wood binding between the fence and the blade. I'd use a
router, but if I used a table saw I'd use a sled or at least a miter
gage.

I've heard that if you want to use the fence on a cross-cut so that
you can make multiple cuts of the same length, then you attach a stop
block to the fence before the blade, use that to position and clamp
the stock to the sled (or miter gage), and make sure that the stock
clears the stop-block before it contacts the blade.

Do I have this wrong?

--- Chip

No you don't .....but the original guy said he was cutting a 1/4 inch
dado.....nothing is loose for a kickback, no single blade to bind or kerf to
close........with even downward pressure on the wood, a solid fence or
layout for material control and hands always clear of the blade you can't
see, it is not a very dangerous cut or definitely safer than any cut when
the blade is exposed..... For a dado I'd still rather use a router although
for 12 inch or so quickies I'd use my RAS and for long grooves the
tablesaw...as always there are lots of ways to get to the same
place......Rod

Larry W wrote:

Personally, the router is one of my least-liked tools and the table saw
one of my favorites, but in this case I would cut the dadoes with a
router and straight edge guide.


Add me to the choir, unless I was doing enough to justify building a new
sled. I prefer dadoing on the TS, but big stuff usually gets done with
the router.

To the OP: Keep in mind that dados don't kick back the same way as
through cuts. It'll ruin the work, but it'll usually not develop the
same sorts of forces as a trapped and lifted board.

Chip Buchholtz wrote:

I thought that using the fence for a cross-cut was a no-no - too much
chance of the wood binding between the fence and the blade.

This is for through cuts only.

Remember, you're always crosscutting something in plywood. G

"tom" wrote in message

Alright, I'm scared.

Simply don't do it, then. Use a router.

I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across.

Plywood, or wood sides? Are the sides really 96" in length? (if not, can you
change/swap your "reference edge"?)

Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom

With a good cabinet saw and a long fence, this is not a particularly
dangerous cut for the operator, but more so for the workpiece, particularly
with only a 23" width that must be held tightly against the fence during the
cut.

Rotation of the piece away from the fence during the cut (from the friction
between it and the table top, and the drag induced by the cut) is what will
ruin the workpiece. Whatever you can do to minnimize these two forces will
help ... IOW, wax the table top, and use sharp cutters.

I make these type of cuts routinely on the table saw, but usually in sheet
goods where I can dado the full width of a sheet, giving more area to press
against the fence, with less chance or rotating the piece during the cut,
and then rip to width.

This usually makes for more accuracy of the dado position on opposite sides
of a cabinet to boot.

If this is not possible, and you don't trust either yourself or your
equipment, a sled, or router is your best bet.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

In article om, tom wrote:
Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across. Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom

Use a router with a straightedge as a guide -- something you've ripped on the
table saw, or jointed, to get a nice clean straight edge.

If the panels to be fit into the dados are plywood, DO NOT assume that their
actual thickness is the same as their stated thickness. Likewise, do not
assume that all sheets of plywood, even if bought at the same time from the
same lot from the same source, are the same thickness. Cut your dados using a
router bit that's smaller than the thickness of the plywood. Then either shift
the guide and make a second pass with the router to get the exact width, or
use the table saw to cut a slight rabbet on the panels.

If the panels are solid wood, it's easier to cut the dados at whatever size
you wish, then plane the panels to the correct thickness.

Remember that a router motor spins clockwise as viewed from the top, and
position your straightedge so that the force exerted on the router by the wood
pulls it *into* the guide, not away:

guide ====================
router O
feed direction -----

-OR-

feed direction -----
router O
guide ====================

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article k.net, Lew Hodgett wrote:
tom wrote:
Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet.
snip

As others have suggested, a router, but with two (2) straight edges,
one on either side of the dado.

They'd better be dead parallel.

That way, the router is trapped with no chance of a run away cut.

There's no danger of a runaway cut if you put the guide on the correct side of
the router, and keep the router pressed against it. Easier to do that, IMO,
than to ensure that two guides are parallel to each other.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"tom" wrote in message
ps.com...
Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across. Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom


If you don't have one, build yourself a quick cross cut sled and loose the
fence.

On May 24, 10:28 pm, tom wrote:
Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across. Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom

Since it is a corner cabinet I would go with the TS if you have a 50"
fence. That way you won't have any alignment troubles.

If you want to use a router, make a jig like:
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dado.html

"RayV" wrote in message
ups.com...
Snip


If you want to use a router, make a jig like:
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dado.html



Have you used that jig? ;~)

Leon wrote:

Have you used that jig? ;~)



I made that jig in several sizes. I wonder who this "Leon" cat is? G

On 24 May 2007 19:28:37 -0700, tom wrote:

Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across. Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom


Make a jig that you can clamp onto the cabinet sides and restricts
your router base to cut a perfect dado. Test the jig on a scrape piece
and make adjustments as needed. Most of your time will be in making
the jig, but once that's done cutting perfect dadoes will be easy.

If you have a dado blade for your table saw and you have a 50" fence,
the table saw will work. You must keep the work tight against the
fence by applying the force between the blade and the fence. Depending
on the size/weight of the cabinet sides, this may not be safe. If
there is safer way, it is a better way. It is a good thing to listen
to that little voice!

"tom" wrote in message

thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom

Assuming that your table saw is setup properly, and workpiece hangs over the
edge of the table saw to the left of the blade, here's another way to do it
with the table saw, which I forgot to mention:

Retract the blade below the table top; set your fence to the proper distance
for the cut; lay the workpiece, with the center over the retracted blade,
onto the table top with the "reference edge" squarely against the fence;
securely clamp a straight, pre-cut "guide board", underneath the workpiece,
and snugly against the table saw's left top edge.

Now, make sure the piece slides easily, but with no rotation, between the
clamped guide board and the fence, with the blade still retracted.

If done correctly, this will seriously reduce any rotation of the workpiece
when doing the cut, and will allow you to control the cut from the left of
the blade, instead of from the fence, some distance away.

Set the blade to the correct height and you now have two options for the
cut:

1. Some will feel uncomfortable trapping the workpiece between the guide
board and table saw fence.

For a 1/4" non-through cut, I would not hesitate to do so, but YMMV.

2. Move the fence back, and just use the clamped "guide board" against the
edge of the table saw top as your guide to make the cut.

Whichever way you prefer, the cut is now much easier to control because the
distance between your new temporary "reference edge" and the blade is likely
to be much less than the width of your cabinet side.

I have used this method when I have had to dado slightly bowed stock and
needed to be in better position to put downward pressure than I would be
when trying to control the cut closer to the fence.

Strictly FWIW, YMMV ...


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:09:30 GMT, Phisherman wrote:
Make a jig that you can clamp onto the cabinet sides and restricts
your router base to cut a perfect dado. Test the jig on a scrape
piece and make adjustments as needed. Most of your time will be in
making the jig, but once that's done cutting perfect dadoes will be
easy.

Reminds me of a short demo video that Pat Warner put together, and might
be available on his website. He used a piece of the shelf material, and
a sheet of paper, to set up a jig like that. The jig, in this case, was
nothing more than two straight boards and some clamps.

Using the actual shelf would take care of at least some of the variation
in material thickness.

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

On May 25, 9:30 am, "Leon" wrote:
"RayV" wrote in message

ups.com...
Snip



If you want to use a router, make a jig like:
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dado.html

Have you used that jig? ;~)

The one I use is more like this but the width is adjustable
http://www.rd.com/americanwoodworker...in/dadoes.html

On May 25, 4:03 am, B A R R Y wrote:
Larry W wrote:

Personally, the router is one of my least-liked tools and the table saw
one of my favorites, but in this case I would cut the dadoes with a
router and straight edge guide.

Add me to the choir, unless I was doing enough to justify building a new
sled. I prefer dadoing on the TS, but big stuff usually gets done with
the router.

To the OP: Keep in mind that dados don't kick back the same way as
through cuts. It'll ruin the work, but it'll usually not develop the
same sorts of forces as a trapped and lifted board.

That's probably a large part of my fear, these "hundred-dollar-plus"
sheets of cherry ply. I've been known to justify certain things for
certain costs, and just these couple of cuts might justify a new big
dado sled, even if only for the 3-4 cuts so far from the fence. Thank
you for your input. Tom

On May 25, 5:02 am, "Swingman" wrote:
"tom" wrote in message
Alright, I'm scared.

Simply don't do it, then. Use a router.

I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across.

Plywood, or wood sides? Are the sides really 96" in length? (if not, can you
change/swap your "reference edge"?)

Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom

With a good cabinet saw and a long fence, this is not a particularly
dangerous cut for the operator, but more so for the workpiece, particularly
with only a 23" width that must be held tightly against the fence during the
cut.

Rotation of the piece away from the fence during the cut (from the friction
between it and the table top, and the drag induced by the cut) is what will
ruin the workpiece. Whatever you can do to minnimize these two forces will
help ... IOW, wax the table top, and use sharp cutters.

I make these type of cuts routinely on the table saw, but usually in sheet
goods where I can dado the full width of a sheet, giving more area to press
against the fence, with less chance or rotating the piece during the cut,
and then rip to width.

This usually makes for more accuracy of the dado position on opposite sides
of a cabinet to boot.

If this is not possible, and you don't trust either yourself or your
equipment, a sled, or router is your best bet.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

That's what I'm shooting for, accuracy to boot. Both sides of each
piece have a good bottom edge from which to measure, and it's really
only in the top carcass that I get so far away from the fence that it
gets "scary". I'll wax the heck out of everything(again), and try some
dry runs with the blade down. Thanks. Tom

On May 25, 5:49 am, "Leon" wrote:
"tom" wrote in message

ps.com...

Alright, I'm scared. I'm getting ready to cut the dadoes into the
sides of a corner cabinet. These are essentially crosscuts as far as
48 inches from the referencing edge, which would be up against the
fence. !/4 inch deep. The panels are about 23 inches across. Beyond
just "listening to that little voice" that says to be careful, I'd
thought I would ask the group about their ideas in regards to possible
kickback, as the fence is so far away, and their personal bests in
similar endeavors.... Tom

If you don't have one, build yourself a quick cross cut sled and loose the
fence.

That is probably my safest option for the cuts, even if I really only
needed it for about 4 cuts out of 14. With the cost of this ply, it'd
be worth it. Thanks. Tom

tom wrote:


That's probably a large part of my fear, these "hundred-dollar-plus"
sheets of cherry ply. I've been known to justify certain things for
certain costs, and just these couple of cuts might justify a new big
dado sled, even if only for the 3-4 cuts so far from the fence.

In hear ya'!

Don't forget that the sled doesn't need to be super wide, only deep
enough for the parts. None of my sleds are wider than the cast iron top
of my General 650, but I use counterweights and clamped blocks to
stabilize the work and the sled.

With proper counterweights, I can dado six inches from the end of a
7'-8'long, 16" wide bookcase side without supporting the end that hangs
off! This eliminates lots of issues with the moving work hitting or
hanging up on supports. If the sled fits the miter slots well and the
saw / sled contact points are waxed, the whole thing moves like a
high-end sliding table.

My favorite counterweights are full one gallon finish cans and 10 lb.
chromed (not black painted) gym weight plates. The chromed plates have
smooth faces, don't leave black marks on the work, and are relatively
inexpensive in big-box sporting goods stores, like Sports Authority or
Dick's. The weight plates have all kinds of shop uses, but I normally
keep 40-50 lbs. near the table saw. You can lay the plates right on the
back of the work, making a really stable setup.

tom wrote:


That's what I'm shooting for, accuracy to boot. Both sides of each
piece have a good bottom edge from which to measure, and it's really
only in the top carcass that I get so far away from the fence that it
gets "scary". I'll wax the heck out of everything(again), and try some
dry runs with the blade down. Thanks. Tom

As Swingman suggests, you can cut lower dadoes using bottom edge as
reference, then switch and use top edge for the upper dadoes.

As long as you cut the dadoes in matched pairs, NBD since any errors
get washed out.

Have fun.

Lew

On May 25, 10:28 am, Lew Hodgett wrote:
tom wrote:

That's what I'm shooting for, accuracy to boot. Both sides of each
piece have a good bottom edge from which to measure, and it's really
only in the top carcass that I get so far away from the fence that it
gets "scary". I'll wax the heck out of everything(again), and try some
dry runs with the blade down. Thanks. Tom

As Swingman suggests, you can cut lower dadoes using bottom edge as
reference, then switch and use top edge for the upper dadoes.

As long as you cut the dadoes in matched pairs, NBD since any errors
get washed out.

Have fun.

Lew

Well, the top edges were trimmed with my existing crosscut sled, and
maybe they're "close enough for government work", but I know that over
the 23+ inches across, they're out of square about a 16th or a little
less. It's possible that I do worry too much (insert smiley-face
here). Tom

On May 25, 11:27 am, tom wrote:
On May 25, 10:28 am, Lew Hodgett wrote:



tom wrote:

That's what I'm shooting for, accuracy to boot. Both sides of each
piece have a good bottom edge from which to measure, and it's really
only in the top carcass that I get so far away from the fence that it
gets "scary". I'll wax the heck out of everything(again), and try some
dry runs with the blade down. Thanks. Tom

As Swingman suggests, you can cut lower dadoes using bottom edge as
reference, then switch and use top edge for the upper dadoes.

As long as you cut the dadoes in matched pairs, NBD since any errors
get washed out.

Have fun.

Lew

Well, the top edges were trimmed with my existing crosscut sled, and
maybe they're "close enough for government work", but I know that over
the 23+ inches across, they're out of square about a 16th or a little
less. It's possible that I do worry too much (insert smiley-face
here). Tom

Success, with only one little problem. It was in one of the four
dadoes I was worried about, but not one of the farthest. Perhaps I was
getting complacent. FWIW, the problem area will be under one side of a
shelf, just a few inches below my wife's eye level. Pics of the
problem at http://tomeshew.spaces.live.com/ in the works in progress
album. Thanks to all for letting me fret some! Next up, pattern
routing the shelves(and here we go again). Tom

"tom" wrote in message

Success, with only one little problem. It was in one of the four
dadoes I was worried about, but not one of the farthest. Perhaps I was
getting complacent. FWIW, the problem area will be under one side of a
shelf, just a few inches below my wife's eye level. Pics of the
problem at http://tomeshew.spaces.live.com/ in the works in progress
album. Thanks to all for letting me fret some! Next up, pattern
routing the shelves(and here we go again). Tom

Crocodile Dundee

Problem? You call that a problem? That's not a problem, this is a problem:

www.e-woodshop.net/images/problem.jpg !!

/Crocodile Dundee

.... and why I make a couple extra of every part.

I wouldn't worry about it. It's a pretty easy fix once the shelf is
installed ... and a craftsman is only as good as his fixes.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On May 25, 2:05 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"tom" wrote in message
Success, with only one little problem. It was in one of the four
dadoes I was worried about, but not one of the farthest. Perhaps I was
getting complacent. FWIW, the problem area will be under one side of a
shelf, just a few inches below my wife's eye level. Pics of the
problem athttp://tomeshew.spaces.live.com/ in the works in progress
album. Thanks to all for letting me fret some! Next up, pattern
routing the shelves(and here we go again). Tom

Crocodile Dundee

Problem? You call that a problem? That's not a problem, this is a problem:

www.e-woodshop.net/images/problem.jpg!!

/Crocodile Dundee

... and why I make a couple extra of every part.

I wouldn't worry about it. It's a pretty easy fix once the shelf is
installed ... and a craftsman is only as good as his fixes.

--www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Well, I did say it was a little problem. That problem of yours, was
that a blade height issue? Tom

"Swingman" wrote in message

Crocodile Dundee

Problem? You call that a problem? That's not a problem, this is a problem:

www.e-woodshop.net/images/problem.jpg !!

/Crocodile Dundee

Well, you wouldn't have those kinds of problems Mr. Dundee, if you would
keep the crocs out of the shop. They apparently have been chewing on your
parts there. You should kill the crocs and go back to making each part
perfectly. ;-)

"tom" wrote in message

Well, I did say it was a little problem. That problem of yours, was
that a blade height issue? Tom

The part was not secure enough in the jig and slipped as the router bit
grabbed it on a climb cut.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Success, with only one little problem. It was in one of the four
dadoes I was worried about, but not one of the farthest. Perhaps I was
getting complacent. FWIW, the problem area will be under one side of a
shelf, just a few inches below my wife's eye level. Pics of the
problem at http://tomeshew.spaces.live.com/ in the works in progress
album. Thanks to all for letting me fret some! Next up, pattern
routing the shelves(and here we go again). Tom


So tell me that Clem is NOT the problem and you didn't dado his tail!

Or is he your silkysmoother?

www.dougstowe.com/silkysmoother/silky.jpg

Mike