Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4fefb356$0$44942
:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew


I'm not sure we have enough information to make a really informed
determination of what's going on. We've really only kept detailed
weather records on a national or even global scale for the past couple
hundred years at most, which could just be a "mood" the planet is going
through considering its apparent age.

From my time on this planet, heat waves during the summer are normal.
Don't see how global warming will affect that. It'll be 90 one week and
100 the next, that's just movement of the jet stream. If the jet stream
shifts to bring air down from Canada, it'll cool down again.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 6/30/2012 9:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew





it was hotter the entire year of 1934. **** your global warming that
is a farce.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:18:00 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Will you change your mind next Winter? I didn't think so.

On 6/30/2012 8:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew



The main "greenhouse gas" is water vapor, so by your logic forest fires
are caused by high humidity.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4fefb356$0$44942
:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew

Whether or not part of the warming trend is NOT man-made, it seems clear to
me that recklessly adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere is not smart.
So stop farting. Ride you bicycle more, etc, etc.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 01 Jul 2012 10:30:13 GMT, Han wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4fefb356$0$44942
:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew

Whether or not part of the warming trend is NOT man-made,

kaff Other than the warming trend in D.C., the data clearly show
that, too, to be a natural cycle. Even the alarmists themselves got
caught on that one, exclaiming that they can't account for the LACK of
warming they forecast. Warming isn't a fact, it's a "cause" to be
"activist" upon, apparently.

Or not. giggle
http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=DJxlzuOdK2IC


it seems clear to
me that recklessly adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere is not smart.

Amen. Replace coal-fired plants with latest-generation nuke today!


So stop farting. Ride you bicycle more, etc, etc.

Boycott beans, red meat, mex food, etc. Too far to ride to work? Then
hang-glide.

--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

Not according to the A holes who say it's not happening.
But those of us with brains recognize that the past few years the
swings have been out of whack. Records everywhere. Record high temps in
the winters, record snow falls, record low temps.

The Deleware river has had 3 100 year floods in just a couple of years.


Those people who say its not global warming are the same people that say
tobacco doesn't cause cancer. And fracking is harmless. And so on..
Like our congress critters who say SS will be there for us.
The head up their ass guys and gals.





On 6/30/2012 10:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
eb.com...
Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru out
much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew


This phase happened 10 and 20 years ago. The high heat and bad weather.
Reason ??????? WW

On 6/30/2012 9:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew



Oh good God,ITS SUMMER!!!!!

The sky is not falling.

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 08:24:37 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Oh good God,ITS SUMMER!!!!!
The sky is not falling.

You mean it hasn't fallen *yet*.

On 7/1/12 8:00 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
Not according to the A holes who say it's not happening.
But those of us with brains recognize that the past few years the
swings have been out of whack. Records everywhere. Record high temps in
the winters, record snow falls, record low temps.

The Deleware river has had 3 100 year floods in just a couple of years.


Those people who say its not global warming are the same people that say
tobacco doesn't cause cancer. And fracking is harmless. And so on..
Like our congress critters who say SS will be there for us.
The head up their ass guys and gals.


Expect that, it's been hotter.... much hotter. Hint: Greenland... it
was green. :-)

And tell me this, why is it ok for man-caused GW alarmists to use
weather to support their claims but when when GW opponents use it, the
alarmists smugly chastise us for confusing climate with weather?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:18:00 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew



There were many cycles of warming and cooling long before there were
enough humans to affect the atmosphere.

Having doctored reports from one agency makes *all* of the "evidence"
suspect.

I can't disprove global warming, but we're currently on the high side
of a sunspot cycle which fits with 100 degrees in the afternoon and 75
degrees at night. Wouldn't true global warming also increase the
nighttime temperatures?

tiredofspam wrote:
Not according to the A holes who say it's not happening.
But those of us with brains recognize that the past few years the
swings have been out of whack. Records everywhere. Record high temps
in the winters, record snow falls, record low temps.

The Deleware river has had 3 100 year floods in just a couple of
years.

Those people who say its not global warming are the same people that
say tobacco doesn't cause cancer. And fracking is harmless. And so
on.. Like our congress critters who say SS will be there for us.
The head up their ass guys and gals.


Tobacco causes cancer? Science has YET to define the mechanism. All that the
health folks can say is that there is a very, very strong correlation. But
science also holds that correlation is not causation.*

Fracking is harmless? Again, geologists and others have not yet shown
whether fracking is or is not harmless.

SS will be there for us? We have no way of knowing for sure whether SS will
be there, and we cannot know until the time arrives.

Your examples are based on speculation, guesses, perhaps a tendency, but not
on reproducible experiments. Just like global warming, er... "climate
change."

---------
* There is strong "evidence" (if you hold that correlation implies
causation) that pickles are hazardous! Virtually everyone who ate at least
one pickle before 1900 is, today, either dead or has white hair and no
teeth.

On 7/1/2012 11:13 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 7/1/12 8:00 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
Not according to the A holes who say it's not happening.
But those of us with brains recognize that the past few years the
swings have been out of whack. Records everywhere. Record high temps in
the winters, record snow falls, record low temps.

The Deleware river has had 3 100 year floods in just a couple of years.


Those people who say its not global warming are the same people that say
tobacco doesn't cause cancer. And fracking is harmless. And so on..
Like our congress critters who say SS will be there for us.
The head up their ass guys and gals.


Expect that, it's been hotter.... much hotter. Hint: Greenland... it
was green. :-)

And tell me this, why is it ok for man-caused GW alarmists to use
weather to support their claims but when when GW opponents use it, the
alarmists smugly chastise us for confusing climate with weather?




Observations

1. Those caught up in the hype are only interested in the here and now,
using past data and trends is way too complicated to form a logical
reality. They want to use the information from those that are making
money off of the hype.

2. Those caught up in the hype believe that cleaning up the air and
environment will lessen the worlds annual Summer season. Like #1 above
they don't like to admit that this so called "change" has happened on
their watch. Prior to cleaning up the environment and pollution there
was no "change".

On 7/1/2012 12:05 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:18:00 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew



There were many cycles of warming and cooling long before there were
enough humans to affect the atmosphere.

Having doctored reports from one agency makes *all* of the "evidence"
suspect.

I can't disprove global warming, but we're currently on the high side
of a sunspot cycle which fits with 100 degrees in the afternoon and 75
degrees at night. Wouldn't true global warming also increase the
nighttime temperatures?



Ok, not fair!!! Logical observations muddy up the hype.

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4fefb356$0$44942
:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew


I'm not sure we have enough information to make a really informed
determination of what's going on. We've really only kept detailed
weather records on a national or even global scale for the past couple
hundred years at most, which could just be a "mood" the planet is going
through considering its apparent age.

From my time on this planet, heat waves during the summer are normal.
Don't see how global warming will affect that. It'll be 90 one week and
100 the next, that's just movement of the jet stream. If the jet stream
shifts to bring air down from Canada, it'll cool down again.
================================================== =================
You are talking to someone who prays to Al Gore before going to bed at
night.

On 7/1/2012 1:12 PM, HeyBub wrote:
tiredofspam wrote:
Not according to the A holes who say it's not happening.
But those of us with brains recognize that the past few years the
swings have been out of whack. Records everywhere. Record high temps
in the winters, record snow falls, record low temps.

The Deleware river has had 3 100 year floods in just a couple of
years.

Those people who say its not global warming are the same people that
say tobacco doesn't cause cancer. And fracking is harmless. And so
on.. Like our congress critters who say SS will be there for us.
The head up their ass guys and gals.


Tobacco causes cancer? Science has YET to define the mechanism. All that the
health folks can say is that there is a very, very strong correlation. But
science also holds that correlation is not causation.*
Really... you are a total misguided idiot.



Fracking is harmless? Again, geologists and others have not yet shown
whether fracking is or is not harmless.

So the fact that people can light their water coming out of the tap on
fire is nothing. No fact. You stick your head in the ground... far in
the ground..

SS will be there for us? We have no way of knowing for sure whether SS will
be there, and we cannot know until the time arrives.

Your examples are based on speculation, guesses, perhaps a tendency, but not
on reproducible experiments. Just like global warming, er... "climate
change."

---------
* There is strong "evidence" (if you hold that correlation implies
causation) that pickles are hazardous! Virtually everyone who ate at least
one pickle before 1900 is, today, either dead or has white hair and no
teeth.

So the fact that glaciers are melting means nothing.

Chamonix's glaciers have disappeared. I remember watching how the
glacier that the Olympics were held on in 72 I think if I remember are gone.

Yes it could be just a phase. Like how England's phase of pollution
caused problems there.

All in all, I remember winters differently. I remember colder, I
remember more consistent snow. I also remember years with little snow.

While I don't think that in itself in indicative, I do believe the wild
swings are. Again, we have had 3 x 100 year floods in a couple of years.
Those types of floods were literally once per hundred.

I guess the ozone depletion at the poles is nothing also.

Yes that is measured. But your right there is no .. .absolutely no proof
....

I don't believe in hysteria, but I do believe that this earth while huge
can only absorb so much toxicity. Millions of years ago these toxins
were at the surface. But the earth transformed. We in a 100 years have
reversed many millions of years. Add to that natural occurring
phenomena, and we have put a load on the atmosphere and it is saying ,
hey , I can't convert this crap. Add the loss of forests, first in
Europe centuries ago, now in the Americas, and our ability to filter or
turn the toxins around is diminished. The way the forests are being
burned in the southern hemisphere just adds to the problem.


Keep believing what you want. You sound like the guys that believed the
tobacco companies. I had worked for companies that lied so badly, I
don't trust most. I know what they do, and how far they are willing to
go. My first dose of it came in the aviation and space industry. Later
in the Pharma. Trust the oil companies? Not on your life. Remember the
phony oil crisis? Remember the tobacco guys. Cigs don't cause lung
cancer. Fracking, it doesn't hurt the water supply. Why did GW relax the
clean water act for those guys then?

I guess it depends on which side you want to stand on. But I'd like to
leave my son a world that has a chance. If you are wrong, he won't have
that chance. If I am wrong, I did nothing wrong, and was a good steward.
If your wrong you couldn't give a rats ass you'll be dead.

I think that we can survive and prosper with proper conservation.
Certainly all our plastics are not necessary. We survived many years
without the packaging we do now in the stores. Our garbage is out of
control...


Lew maybe the extreme zealot, but everyone should consider that it is a
real possibility. If you are wrong and thought it not happening your
actions may be irreversible. If you believed and did what you could and
were wrong, what harm did you do to?

Take __some responsibility__ and think that it is possible, and I should
do more to lessen my footprint.

On 7/1/2012 1:26 PM, CW wrote:


"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4fefb356$0$44942
:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew


I'm not sure we have enough information to make a really informed
determination of what's going on. We've really only kept detailed
weather records on a national or even global scale for the past couple
hundred years at most, which could just be a "mood" the planet is going
through considering its apparent age.

From my time on this planet, heat waves during the summer are normal.
Don't see how global warming will affect that. It'll be 90 one week and
100 the next, that's just movement of the jet stream. If the jet stream
shifts to bring air down from Canada, it'll cool down again.
================================================== =================
You are talking to someone who prays to Al Gore before going to bed at
night.

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:05:30 -0400, wrote:
I can't disprove global warming, but we're currently on the high side
of a sunspot cycle which fits with 100 degrees in the afternoon and 75
degrees at night. Wouldn't true global warming also increase the
nighttime temperatures?

This is ridiculous. It's a factual impossibility that man has not had
a noticeable affect on the weather of this planet. ALL that you
naysayers have to offer in rebuttal is half baked theories as to why
it probably is something else.

On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 12:12:42 -0500, "HeyBub"
Tobacco causes cancer? Science has YET to define the mechanism. All that the
health folks can say is that there is a very, very strong correlation. But
science also holds that correlation is not causation.*

You're actually going to sit there and suggest that smoking MAY not
cause cancer? Are you ****ing serious?

There comes a time when the same repeated result of some action
usually has the same consequence.

There's a hell of a lot of very knowledgeable people on this
newsgroup. But some of you knowledgeable people are pretty damned
stupid.

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:18:00 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew

Well Lew if you put a cork in your ass to stop methane emissions....

Mark

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:31:35 -0400, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:



On 7/1/2012 1:12 PM, HeyBub wrote:
tiredofspam wrote:
Not according to the A holes who say it's not happening.
But those of us with brains recognize that the past few years the
swings have been out of whack. Records everywhere. Record high temps
in the winters, record snow falls, record low temps.

The Deleware river has had 3 100 year floods in just a couple of
years.

Those people who say its not global warming are the same people that
say tobacco doesn't cause cancer. And fracking is harmless. And so
on.. Like our congress critters who say SS will be there for us.
The head up their ass guys and gals.


Tobacco causes cancer? Science has YET to define the mechanism. All that the
health folks can say is that there is a very, very strong correlation. But
science also holds that correlation is not causation.*
Really... you are a total misguided idiot.



Fracking is harmless? Again, geologists and others have not yet shown
whether fracking is or is not harmless.

So the fact that people can light their water coming out of the tap on
fire is nothing. No fact. You stick your head in the ground... far in
the ground..

The fact that people can and do commit fraud is no surprise to anyone. The
fact that this fraud isn't reported by the press, isn't any more surprising.

On 7/1/2012 12:26 PM, CW wrote:


"Puckdropper" wrote in message
eb.com...

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4fefb356$0$44942
:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew


I'm not sure we have enough information to make a really informed
determination of what's going on. We've really only kept detailed
weather records on a national or even global scale for the past couple
hundred years at most, which could just be a "mood" the planet is going
through considering its apparent age.

From my time on this planet, heat waves during the summer are normal.
Don't see how global warming will affect that. It'll be 90 one week and
100 the next, that's just movement of the jet stream. If the jet stream
shifts to bring air down from Canada, it'll cool down again.
================================================== =================
You are talking to someone who prays to Al Gore before going to bed at
night.


Al Gore sends lots of KoolAid To California

On 7/1/2012 2:04 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
So the fact that glaciers are melting means nothing.


Simple fact, that is what has been happening since the ice age.
And those glaciers that are melting happen to be situated over a line of
volcanoes. What is under the glaciers is warmer than what is on top.

On 7/1/2012 4:45 PM, Markem wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:18:00 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew

Well Lew if you put a cork in your ass to stop methane emissions....

Mark



Nope they cant do that, it has been studied and found to cause cancer.

On 6/30/2012 9:18 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Got Netflix?

Bring up a copy of "Windfall" and watch it. A small town in upstate NY
wrestling with the fallout from wind turbines and the resultant
political, health, government and corporate greed issues.

Ironic thing is that to a man, the opponents are all admitted
liberals/progressives who vocally support "alternative energy" ... that
is, until they experienced first hand exactly what that concept really
brings in human costs.

Much more than a NIMBY presentation, it should be required viewing
BEFORE anyone runs their mouth on these issue without being fully
informed of the human, economic and social costs these programs entail
.... including the enormous increase in greenhouse gas emission from the
collateral technologies required to run them.

Inform yourself, first ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 23:14:52 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

it was hotter the entire year of 1934.


Not true.

1934 was the third warmest year in the U.S. but only ranks 48th
warmest globally.

2012 from Jan. to May ranks the 10th warmest with May ranking the 2nd
warmest May globally. We'll have to see how the year finishes.

Globally, the 20 warmest years have all occurred since 1987.
The temps are gathered from world wide weather service records,
include land and ocean temps with the mean being averaged between
1901 and 2000.


Mike

"Steve Barker" wrote:

it was hotter the entire year of 1934. **** your global warming
that is a farce.
------------------------------------
Your command of the language to document your lack of knowledge of
existing information is comical.

Lew

"Puckdropper" wrote:

I'm not sure we have enough information to make a really informed
determination of what's going on. We've really only kept detailed
weather records on a national or even global scale for the past
couple
hundred years at most, which could just be a "mood" the planet is
going
through considering its apparent age.

From my time on this planet, heat waves during the summer are
normal.
Don't see how global warming will affect that. It'll be 90 one week
and
100 the next, that's just movement of the jet stream. If the jet
stream
shifts to bring air down from Canada, it'll cool down again.
----------------------------------------
Core samples have documented a thermal foot print that goes back
several hundred years.

The last 10 years have shown a continuing increase in annual
temperatures.

Lew

On 7/1/2012 9:34 PM, Mike O. wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 23:14:52 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

it was hotter the entire year of 1934.


Not true.

1934 was the third warmest year in the U.S. but only ranks 48th
warmest globally.

2012 from Jan. to May ranks the 10th warmest with May ranking the 2nd
warmest May globally. We'll have to see how the year finishes.

Globally, the 20 warmest years have all occurred since 1987.
The temps are gathered from world wide weather service records,
include land and ocean temps with the mean being averaged between
1901 and 2000.


Mike


When we talk of global warming we are talking the whole earth not just a
few insignificantly few square miles of the tens or thousands of square
miles on earth surface. So it may be 105 here but that has nothing to
do with global warming.

I snicker every time I see someone telling me the the total earth's
atmosphere has changing 0.2 degree F when the temperature range on the
earth surface varies over 100 degree from one end of the earth to the
other on any given hour of the day.

OR when the global warming "scientist" say that global warming has
raised the sea level on one side of the Atlantic and not the other by
2mm, when the oceans changes 1000 mm on the average with every tide
change. I see the water raise on one side of the bowl and not the other
every time I get a drink.

OR when they tell me the pH of the ocean has changed less the the
accuracy of the pH standards they use in make the measurements.

If they took these "statistical" analysis to generate these numbers to
the FDA for the approval of a drug they would be laughed out of the
building.

With it so hot there have been days with NO air movement. ( Windmills
need steady 12 mph winds to operate. The bigger they are the higher the
wind speed.) I am sure the windmills provided a lot of supplemental
electricity to assist the conventional and nuclear plant on these days
when every ones air conditioners were at a maximum.

"Swingman" wrote:

Got Netflix?
----------------
Nope.
-----------------
Bring up a copy of "Windfall" and watch it. A small town in upstate
NY wrestling with the fallout from wind turbines and the resultant
political, health, government and corporate greed issues.

Ironic thing is that to a man, the opponents are all admitted
liberals/progressives who vocally support "alternative energy" ...
that is, until they experienced first hand exactly what that concept
really brings in human costs.
snip
---------------------------------
Who funded the study?

Oil? Coal? Other?

Lew

Mike O. wrote in news:kvr1v71pamehnqrq62pnpir4b14kelm9rn@
4ax.com:


Globally, the 20 warmest years have all occurred since 1987.

Oddly enough, they've all occurred since the collapse of the Soviet Union -- and the
consequent shutdown of a large number of temperature monitoring stations in one of the
coldest parts of the world, because the Russians could no longer afford to maintain them.

Ya think that might skew the average a bit higher?

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 16:22:00 -0400, Dave wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:05:30 -0400, wrote:
I can't disprove global warming, but we're currently on the high side
of a sunspot cycle which fits with 100 degrees in the afternoon and 75
degrees at night. Wouldn't true global warming also increase the
nighttime temperatures?

This is ridiculous. It's a factual impossibility that man has not had
a noticeable affect on the weather of this planet. ALL that you
naysayers have to offer in rebuttal is half baked theories as to why
it probably is something else.

A "factual impossibility"? What pompous certainty an ego. The Gaia religion
is heard from.

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:18:00 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves thru
out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew


I don't have an argument against greenhouse gases affecting global
climate. But I believe the wildfires are as much to do with poor
forest management (suppressing files for 100 years has built up a huge
backlog of combustible material) than the warmer climate.

"Jim Weisgram" wrote:

I don't have an argument against greenhouse gases affecting global
climate. But I believe the wildfires are as much to do with poor
forest management (suppressing files for 100 years has built up a
huge
backlog of combustible material) than the warmer climate.
------------------------------------
An even bigger problem is the pine bark beetle which have killed
massive amounts of trees, especially here in SoCal.

Once dead, fires can't be far behind.

Lew

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 23:16:20 -0400, "
A "factual impossibility"? What pompous certainty an ego. The Gaia religion
is heard from.

And as usual, assholes like you are always at the forefront of the
'man can do no wrong' religion. You're the proverbial ostrich burying
your head with its stunted denial intellect in the ground.

Doug Miller wrote in
:

Mike O. wrote in
news:kvr1v71pamehnqrq62pnpir4b14kelm9rn@ 4ax.com:


Globally, the 20 warmest years have all occurred since 1987.

Oddly enough, they've all occurred since the collapse of the Soviet
Union -- and the consequent shutdown of a large number of temperature
monitoring stations in one of the coldest parts of the world, because
the Russians could no longer afford to maintain them.

Ya think that might skew the average a bit higher?

I'd hope that they use a correction factor for that of some kind.
OTOH, when my parents moved their last time, in 1947, the street was
dirt, as were many of the adjoining streets, however small their number
was. Since, the streets have all been blacktopped, and widened. Moreover
the surface area of paved roads in Holland has probably been increased
10-20 fold if not more. Somewhere there ought to be statistics on that.
When you pave dirt with blacktop, build housing (read roofs), you
probably increase the heat retention of those surface several fold. That
same process has occurred throughout the world. Nowadays every family
has 2 cars, where they used to have a few bicycles. Almost everyone now
has A/C, which doesn't use up heat, but produces it. Reminder: In 1976
almost no subway cars in New York City had A/C. Now they all do - ergo
lots of net heat production. All that without invoking green house
gases. Add those to the mix, and it is no wonder that things on average
over the whole world are getting warmer. Yes, Earth's climate has in the
geological past gotten warmer and colder, even in historical scales. But
please, PLEASE, do understand that we are affecting things ON TOP OF
NORMAL CLIMATE changes.

As far as sea level changes are concerned, perhaps you don't care now
that sea levels are increasing. Rest assured that much planning and
preparing is going on in Holland, where half the country would be
inundated if all the current sea-defenses were inoperable. Ask London
City government whether they like another 1953.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 7/1/2012 9:11 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Swingman" wrote:

Got Netflix?
----------------
Nope.
-----------------
Bring up a copy of "Windfall" and watch it. A small town in upstate
NY wrestling with the fallout from wind turbines and the resultant
political, health, government and corporate greed issues.

Ironic thing is that to a man, the opponents are all admitted
liberals/progressives who vocally support "alternative energy" ...
that is, until they experienced first hand exactly what that concept
really brings in human costs.
snip
---------------------------------
Who funded the study?

Oil? Coal? Other?

Who said anything about a "study"??

... could that possibly be part of the problem? That folks simply
don't take the time to read past their preconceived notions and
political kneejerk reactions?

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On 01 Jul 2012 10:30:13 GMT, Han wrote:

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:4fefb356$0$44942
:

Take your choice, wild fires in the west or oppressive heat waves
thru out much of the rest of the country, global warming is upon us.

Shall we continue to ignore the effect of green house gases?

Lew

Whether or not part of the warming trend is NOT man-made,

kaff Other than the warming trend in D.C., the data clearly show
that, too, to be a natural cycle. Even the alarmists themselves got
caught on that one, exclaiming that they can't account for the LACK of
warming they forecast. Warming isn't a fact, it's a "cause" to be
"activist" upon, apparently.

Or not. giggle
http://books.google.com/books/about/...rming.html?id=
DJxlzuOdK2IC

AFAIAC, global warming is already a fact. At the very least I cannot
escape logic that with all we do (have done), there ought to be global
warming. The reason to be alarmist is that the global changes appear to
be going on rather rapid for "regular" climate change, and so it is much
more difficult for flora and fauna, including agriculture etc, to adjust.
Add to that the thought that some of the reasons for speeding up global
warming may be a feed-back (or feed-forward) mechanism by which it goes
faster and faster, like a rock rolling down a mountain, and it becomes
real scary. Everything humanity does depends on agriculture, and if that
needs to all move to higher latitudes, ...

it seems clear to
me that recklessly adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere is not
smart.

Amen. Replace coal-fired plants with latest-generation nuke today!

Yes.

So stop farting. Ride you bicycle more, etc, etc.

Boycott beans, red meat, mex food, etc. Too far to ride to work? Then
hang-glide.

You got it!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid