On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I have
heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you need to empty
the bag?

If so, which one?


Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.

Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags for
this price. ;~)

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE79B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}


I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year on
bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the waste
and make room for the unit.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I
have heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you
need to empty the bag?

If so, which one?


Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.

Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags for
this price. ;~)

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE79
B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}


I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year on
bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the
waste and make room for the unit.

Thanks for the testimonial, Leon!
Yes, $200 is ridiculous, but you do get a unit that fits onto the vacuum
in almost matching colors ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 1/25/2012 8:53 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I
have heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you
need to empty the bag?

If so, which one?


Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.

Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags for
this price. ;~)

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE79
B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}


I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year on
bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the
waste and make room for the unit.

Thanks for the testimonial, Leon!
Yes, $200 is ridiculous, but you do get a unit that fits onto the vacuum
in almost matching colors ...


LOL. YES! there is value in the coordinating color ensemble! Right
Swingman? ;~)

I currently have a "hose garage" on top of my CT22. That would be
harder to get to when putting away or accessing the hose. Additionally
I stack the systainer of the tool that I am using on top of the vac.

FWIW I don't know if you have filled a bag to capacity or not but I am
still amazed at how much the bags will hold. I would say the bag will
fill to about 97% volume capacity before I see a drop in suction. And
then the bag is like a cinder block. Well maybe not that heavy. LOL

On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??


been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
.... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call


--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??


been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call



You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
to the tool is an important step!

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:27:08 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of
nice, sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...

Speaking of sharpness, to this day I hate sharpening tools. So much
so, that I've seriously considering the purchase of a Tormek 7.
Anything to make the job easier and faster.

I don't remember anyone here saying they use one. They've only been
out about a year, so maybe they haven't be out long enough.

I'm not sure about the current users here but certainly we've had Tormek
users over the years. They seem expensive but when I stop and think about
the fact that I have a slow speed grinder from Woodcraft, a Makita
horizontal water grinder, a full complement of Arkansas stones (including a
large black very fine bench stone that was about $100), a bunch of files and
an angle grinder so I can sharpen anything I own, the Tormek starts to look
quite reasonable.

John

Read the specs really carefully....

Normally it says "vertically nested" for crown mold.

Which means it's leaning against the fence not standing
straight up.

Go here and compare a 10" & 12" saw side by side.

http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categorie...ter-saws.aspx#


On 1/24/2012 3:10 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:


How can a 12 inch saw have a 6 1/2 inch vertical capacity? Or is that
just the distance from the bottom of the blade when it is raised?

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/25/2012 8:53 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I
have heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you
need to empty the bag?

If so, which one?


Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I
have been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3
bags.

At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.

Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags
for this price. ;~)

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE
79 B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}


I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year
on bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the
waste and make room for the unit.

Thanks for the testimonial, Leon!
Yes, $200 is ridiculous, but you do get a unit that fits onto the
vacuum in almost matching colors ...


LOL. YES! there is value in the coordinating color ensemble! Right
Swingman? ;~)

I currently have a "hose garage" on top of my CT22. That would be
harder to get to when putting away or accessing the hose.
Additionally I stack the systainer of the tool that I am using on top
of the vac.

FWIW I don't know if you have filled a bag to capacity or not but I am
still amazed at how much the bags will hold. I would say the bag will
fill to about 97% volume capacity before I see a drop in suction. And
then the bag is like a cinder block. Well maybe not that heavy. LOL

As you know I'm an amateur, and not pushing the Festool stuff I have to
their limits, far from it. I just know how much of a difference my
amateur cyclone (garbage can plus Rockler (?) top made to my DC.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 1/24/2012 10:31 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:27:08 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of
nice, sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...

Speaking of sharpness, to this day I hate sharpening tools. So much
so, that I've seriously considering the purchase of a Tormek 7.
Anything to make the job easier and faster.

I don't remember anyone here saying they use one. They've only been
out about a year, so maybe they haven't be out long enough.


I have a Tormek. I cannot really say that I like it. I works as
advertised but has inherent issues IMHO.

I bought the works package several years ago.

First off it is best left "set up" in it's trough of water as a simple
sharpening task gets put off if you have to pull out the sharpener and
fill the trough with water. I prefer to sharpen several items at once.

Given the opportunity I would sell it and replace it with a WorkSharp 3000.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:16:57 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
horizontal water grinder, a full complement of Arkansas stones (including a
large black very fine bench stone that was about $100), a bunch of files and
an angle grinder so I can sharpen anything I own, the Tormek starts to look
quite reasonable.

One thing that impresses me about Tormek's ads is that the Tormek 7 is
also guaranteed for commercial use. If they're prepared to warranty
one under those conditions, it likely speaks volumes as to its
reliability.

On 1/25/2012 11:16 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/25/2012 8:53 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 1/25/2012 7:46 AM, Han wrote:
Have you added any vortex/dust deputy to the Festool vacuum, as I
have heard some people have done to reducethe number of times you
need to empty the bag?

If so, which one?


Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I
have been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3
bags.

At about $6-$7 per bag I am ok with replacing them and not having to
deal with an extra piece in between me and the vacuum.

Unless you are talking about this, and I can probably buy 30 bags
for this price. ;~)

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD000009&CatId={6EE
79 B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}


I think these systems are interesting but besides saving $20 a year
on bags I don't see much advantage, you still have to dispose of the
waste and make room for the unit.

Thanks for the testimonial, Leon!
Yes, $200 is ridiculous, but you do get a unit that fits onto the
vacuum in almost matching colors ...


LOL. YES! there is value in the coordinating color ensemble! Right
Swingman? ;~)

I currently have a "hose garage" on top of my CT22. That would be
harder to get to when putting away or accessing the hose.
Additionally I stack the systainer of the tool that I am using on top
of the vac.

FWIW I don't know if you have filled a bag to capacity or not but I am
still amazed at how much the bags will hold. I would say the bag will
fill to about 97% volume capacity before I see a drop in suction. And
then the bag is like a cinder block. Well maybe not that heavy. LOL

As you know I'm an amateur, and not pushing the Festool stuff I have to
their limits, far from it. I just know how much of a difference my
amateur cyclone (garbage can plus Rockler (?) top made to my DC.


Agreed the cyclones do a good job at separation.

I have a Jet DC with a pleated filter on top that is almost 6 years old.
I use it most all the time and have replaced the waste bag countless
times. I use a 45 gal contractors bag and toss the whole thing. What I
see with using a cyclone is less shop space and the same amount of dust
to deal with when something needs to be emptied.

A half full bag weighs about 30~40 lbs and is a little tough to get out
of the dust collector because the bag expands wider than the top filter
support arms. This is with a normal mix of saw dust. Now imagine that
bag being half full with just fine saw dust. How heavy is that going to
be? If I bought a cyclone I would probably wonder how I ever got along
with out it. LOL

On 1/25/2012 11:40 AM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 11:16:57 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
horizontal water grinder, a full complement of Arkansas stones (including a
large black very fine bench stone that was about $100), a bunch of files and
an angle grinder so I can sharpen anything I own, the Tormek starts to look
quite reasonable.

One thing that impresses me about Tormek's ads is that the Tormek 7 is
also guaranteed for commercial use. If they're prepared to warranty
one under those conditions, it likely speaks volumes as to its
reliability.


MAYBE! I kinda seriously doubt a pro shop would use one that much,
time is money and they are slower than a dry grinder. Now if a pro shop
did use one I think that Tormek would be willing to warrant the few that
might need repairs in order to be able to say that it will last the same
amount of years in a commercial shop.

Having said that the Tormek is very well made and there are few parts
that will wear out. The bushings/bearings are serviceable and other
than the motor that is about all that will wear out.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

Agreed the cyclones do a good job at separation.

I have a Jet DC with a pleated filter on top that is almost 6 years
old.
I use it most all the time and have replaced the waste bag countless
times. I use a 45 gal contractors bag and toss the whole thing. What
I see with using a cyclone is less shop space and the same amount of
dust to deal with when something needs to be emptied.

A half full bag weighs about 30~40 lbs and is a little tough to get
out of the dust collector because the bag expands wider than the top
filter support arms. This is with a normal mix of saw dust. Now
imagine that bag being half full with just fine saw dust. How heavy
is that going to be? If I bought a cyclone I would probably wonder
how I ever got along with out it. LOL

I also have a pleated filter (Wynn, I believe) on the DC. Can't
remember changing the lower bag, which is a royal PITA (that I do
remember!). Yes you lose shop space, and I wish it wasn't so, but the
ease of emptying the metal garbage can compensates more than enough.
The bargae can has easy carry handles so I don't have to struggle to
keep the dust in the bag out of my nose ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 1/25/2012 11:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/24/2012 10:31 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:27:08 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
electric. The net result of those experiences is that I've got a lot of
nice, sharp and well maintained hand tools and my kids use them...

Speaking of sharpness, to this day I hate sharpening tools. So much
so, that I've seriously considering the purchase of a Tormek 7.
Anything to make the job easier and faster.

I don't remember anyone here saying they use one. They've only been
out about a year, so maybe they haven't be out long enough.


I have a Tormek. I cannot really say that I like it. I works as advertised but
has inherent issues IMHO.

My buddy has a Tormek; I have the Makita 9820 horizontal wet wheel sharpener.
I prefer the Makita, and I think my buddy does too, although it spins at a much
higher rate of speed than the Tormek and has the potential to make a helluva mess.

Given the opportunity I would sell it and replace it with a WorkSharp 3000.

I've been hearing a lot of good things about the WorkSharp units. I've never
seen or tried one, but I would certainly be interested to see if it works any
better (with less mess!) than the Makita.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

That's what people are starting to realize ... that the mfg. have
decreased some of the parameters so that a 12" saw doesn't really cut
anything larger than a 10" saw.

They will wait until enough 12" saws have been peddled and then drop
the new improved capacity units on the market. **SIGH**


-------------
"Pat Barber" wrote in message ...

Read the specs really carefully....

Normally it says "vertically nested" for crown mold.

Which means it's leaning against the fence not standing
straight up.

Go here and compare a 10" & 12" saw side by side.

http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categorie...ter-saws.aspx#

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:03:39 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
MAYBE! I kinda seriously doubt a pro shop would use one that much,
time is money and they are slower than a dry grinder.

I was thinking if it's a pro shop, they've be using a Tormek far more
often than any private user. If that's so, then the warranty even in
the face of repeated commercial use is a good recommendation for the
quality of the tool.

As to dry grinding, I'm of the impression that dry grinding is subject
to heat build up which can hurt the temper of the metal in a knife. I
hope (maybe naively), that a pro shop would be a little more
responsible with their customer's knives and not subject them to the
effects of heat deterioration.

On 1/24/2012 11:32 PM, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:19:16 -0600, Steve Barker
The Festool Owners Group is full of people who were of the same
opinion as you. You should check it out.
i'm not so closed minded as to never explore. Got a link?

http://festoolownersgroup.com/

BTW, the group is not just Festool centric. They discuss all brands of
tools and other things, minus the politics and the cursing about
SawStop.

thanks, got it bookmarked. i'll check it out later.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 1/25/2012 1:04 PM, m II wrote:
That's what people are starting to realize ... that the mfg. have
decreased some of the parameters so that a 12" saw doesn't really cut
anything larger than a 10" saw.

They will wait until enough 12" saws have been peddled and then drop the
new improved capacity units on the market. **SIGH**


-------------
"Pat Barber" wrote in message ...

Read the specs really carefully....

Normally it says "vertically nested" for crown mold.

Which means it's leaning against the fence not standing
straight up.

Go here and compare a 10" & 12" saw side by side.

http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categorie...ter-saws.aspx#

you have to consider that the "tip" speed of the blade may make better
cuts also. Given the first two saws in this example, the 10 and 12 inch
dewalts, the 12" running at 3800 will produce a tip speed of about
135mph, the 10 inch running at 4000 is only 112mph. I'm not saying
this is a great big deal, because i don't really know. But i can tell
you from experience that on lawnmowers, "tip" speed is the name of the
game. The faster, the better the cut.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

There is teeth count to consider also but within limits of it's
clearing ability. (teeth get too small)

I don't see any significant difference in surface speed. I haven't
rechecked your RPM speeds offered. I remember one 12" rated at around
3500 RPM and I thought an old chop saw I had ran at 4800 RPM but that
is all from memory of my mom's equipment in her basement...LOL

-----
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
you have to consider that the "tip" speed of the blade may make better
cuts also. Given the first two saws in this example, the 10 and 12
inch
dewalts, the 12" running at 3800 will produce a tip speed of about
135mph, the 10 inch running at 4000 is only 112mph. I'm not saying
this is a great big deal, because i don't really know. But i can tell
you from experience that on lawnmowers, "tip" speed is the name of the
game. The faster, the better the cut.

On 1/25/2012 2:53 PM, Steve Barker wrote:
On 1/25/2012 1:04 PM, m II wrote:
That's what people are starting to realize ... that the mfg. have
decreased some of the parameters so that a 12" saw doesn't really cut
anything larger than a 10" saw.

They will wait until enough 12" saws have been peddled and then drop the
new improved capacity units on the market. **SIGH**


-------------
"Pat Barber" wrote in message ...

Read the specs really carefully....

Normally it says "vertically nested" for crown mold.

Which means it's leaning against the fence not standing
straight up.

Go here and compare a 10" & 12" saw side by side.

http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categorie...ter-saws.aspx#

you have to consider that the "tip" speed of the blade may make better
cuts also. Given the first two saws in this example, the 10 and 12 inch
dewalts, the 12" running at 3800 will produce a tip speed of about
135mph, the 10 inch running at 4000 is only 112mph. I'm not saying this
is a great big deal, because i don't really know. But i can tell you
from experience that on lawnmowers, "tip" speed is the name of the game.
The faster, the better the cut.



A blade with 20 teeth turning at 4000 rpm will produce as smooth of a
cut as a 40 tooth blade at 2000 rpm assuming feed rate is the same for both.

SO you do not have to have a 80 tooth cross cut blade to produce a
smooth cut if you simply feed a 40 tooth blade at about half the speed.

But yes the faster the blade spins with all things being equal the
smoother the cut will be.

On 1/25/2012 2:33 PM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:03:39 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
MAYBE! I kinda seriously doubt a pro shop would use one that much,
time is money and they are slower than a dry grinder.

I was thinking if it's a pro shop, they've be using a Tormek far more
often than any private user. If that's so, then the warranty even in
the face of repeated commercial use is a good recommendation for the
quality of the tool.

As to dry grinding, I'm of the impression that dry grinding is subject
to heat build up which can hurt the temper of the metal in a knife. I
hope (maybe naively), that a pro shop would be a little more
responsible with their customer's knives and not subject them to the
effects of heat deterioration.

Misunderstanding here. LOL

I was thinking a woodworking shop doing their own sharpening. You
are/were talking about a sharpening shop.

Actually I think sharpening shops use a sanding belt to sharpen most
tools. Those belts go to up to 6000 grit.

Any way the Work Sharp system uses a heat sink for dissipating heat
when sharpening chisels and IIRC they recommend touching the chisel to
the grinding surface a few seconds on and a few seconds off repeatedly.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??


been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call



You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
to the tool is an important step!

One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it. titter

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson

On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??


been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call



You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
to the tool is an important step!

One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.titter

--
The most powerful factors in the world are clear
ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will.
-- J. Arthur Thomson


One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:23 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??


been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call



You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
to the tool is an important step!

One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.titter


One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Bull****!

Coarser teeth take larger bites and make more grain splits no matter
how slow you feed the work.

------------
"Leon" wrote in message
...
A blade with 20 teeth turning at 4000 rpm will produce as smooth of a
cut as a 40 tooth blade at 2000 rpm assuming feed rate is the same for
both.

SO you do not have to have a 80 tooth cross cut blade to produce a
smooth cut if you simply feed a 40 tooth blade at about half the speed.

But yes the faster the blade spins with all things being equal the
smoother the cut will be.

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:23 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??


been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call



You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
to the tool is an important step!

One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.titter


One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...


Well if for some reason you are not happy with the Makita, don't blame
us. ;~)

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

Meh ...

Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...88839479418594

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:58:23 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:23 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??


been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call



You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
to the tool is an important step!

One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.titter


One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...


Well if for some reason you are not happy with the Makita, don't blame
us. ;~)

I don't think I'll be disappointed at all.
I've physically held a Festool 55 and it didn't impress me. (The Bosch
14.4v Impactor did because they had a working model. I bought one that
day after viewing the Festool on the way into the home store.) They
were outside and wouldn't bring out an extension cord so could make
some sawdust with it, but the Makita feels just as smooth and has a
couple of additions that Festool doesn't. Plus it costs $392 vs $525.

I also couldn't hear their suckers. I wanted to see what noise a 55
and CT26 would make together, and see how much sawdust was left.
Videos just don't cut it.

So, how much better is the CT26 than a 10gal shop vac? How much
quieter is it than a quiet shop vac? Why $550 for a bloody vacuum?
OK, built-in relay for starting other tool. That's a plus. HEPA is a
plus. CFM is waaay down comparatively, but I guess that tool dust
extraction doesn't take nearly as much.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On 1/26/2012 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:58:23 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:26:23 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 6:57 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:45:45 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/25/2012 9:11 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/25/2012 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

Han I have used 6 bags in almost 5 years in my Festool vac. And I have
been so busy in the last 18 months that I have probably used 3 bags.

Bag!? What bag? You mean you have to change them??


been that long since I had to change one that I had to read the
instructions the other day ... it didn't need changing until I hooked
the CT22 to the biscuit jointer and kreg pocket hole jig for two weeks
... wondered where all that dust went to ... even then it was a close call



You ever forget to hook the hose up to the tool? The tool and vac just
a buzzing away and a cloud of dust is every where. Attaching the hose
to the tool is an important step!

One would hope that it didn't take you too long to notice it.titter


One whole 8' rip with the track saw. I noticed it immediately but of
course I was paying more attention to what I was doing than why I was
getting a bunch of dust. cough cough.

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...


Well if for some reason you are not happy with the Makita, don't blame
us. ;~)

I don't think I'll be disappointed at all.
I've physically held a Festool 55 and it didn't impress me. (The Bosch
14.4v Impactor did because they had a working model. I bought one that
day after viewing the Festool on the way into the home store.) They
were outside and wouldn't bring out an extension cord so could make
some sawdust with it, but the Makita feels just as smooth and has a
couple of additions that Festool doesn't. Plus it costs $392 vs $525.

I also couldn't hear their suckers. I wanted to see what noise a 55
and CT26 would make together, and see how much sawdust was left.
Videos just don't cut it.

So, how much better is the CT26 than a 10gal shop vac?
How much
quieter is it than a quiet shop vac?

With a tool running with the CT"x", you simply do not hear the vac.
One big plus that I never considered, the Festool vacs roll quite easily
by simply pulling on the hose and do not tip over like some other brands.



Why $550 for a bloody vacuum?
OK, built-in relay for starting other tool. That's a plus. HEPA is a
plus. CFM is waaay down comparatively, but I guess that tool dust
extraction doesn't take nearly as much.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

Meh ...

Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...88839479418594

Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.

What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
the fluorescent green plastic?

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.

C-less, look at it this way. If you were really that dense your ass
would have been plonked ten years ago.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Steve Turner wrote in
:

On 1/25/2012 11:38 AM, Leon wrote:

Given the opportunity I would sell it and replace it with a WorkSharp
3000.

I've been hearing a lot of good things about the WorkSharp units.
I've never seen or tried one, but I would certainly be interested to
see if it works any better (with less mess!) than the Makita.


I bit the bullet and bought one a few weeks ago. I'm extremely happy
with the results, especially after experiencing what a sharp chisel feels
like.

As for mess, it makes one. What you've got is a slow speed disc sander
with no provisions to catch the dust and shavings thrown off. It's just
as essential, if not moreso, to wear your dust mask when using this tool
as it is any Woodworking operation.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

Meh ...

Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...88839479418594

Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.

What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
the fluorescent green plastic?


Class? '~)

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:20:44 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

Meh ...

Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...88839479418594

Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.

What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
the fluorescent green plastic?


Class? '~)

I believe you misspelled "crass", sir, unless you're turning Japanese,
I think you're turning Japanese, I really thinks so. da da da da

Maybe you meant "the snooty Cherman name".

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

Meh ...

Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...88839479418594

Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.

What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
the fluorescent green plastic?

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.

All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.

The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to
cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to
track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang
to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will
tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track
behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut.
If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough
to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end
with either brand.

Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at
the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood.
With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the
saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the
beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the
optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both
ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track? It is likely the
track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay
flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you
put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on
the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further
increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track
can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the
55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.

Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the
same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can
be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to
just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working
with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75"
track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I
mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.

Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of
possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as
much price difference as you might think.

The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs
$655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75"
track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as
they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that
you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with
the Makita.
So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175.
If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.

Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75
and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only
$53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment
rails for about $30.

Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118"
track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with
the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or
transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a
55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be
careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and
the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.

Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
to a different location is going to become important.

These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

Meh ...

Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...88839479418594

Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.

What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
the fluorescent green plastic?

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.

All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.

The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to

An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.


cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to
track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang
to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will
tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track
behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut.
If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough
to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end
with either brand.

How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the
guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a
clean cut?


Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at
the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood.
With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the
saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the
beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the
optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both
ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track?

UGH!


It is likely the
track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay
flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you
put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on
the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further
increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track
can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the
55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.

Or the pair of 55s.


Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the
same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can
be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to
just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working
with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75"
track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I
mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.

Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of
possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as
much price difference as you might think.

What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged
down in a cut?


The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs
$655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75"
track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as
they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that
you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with
the Makita.
So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175.
If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.

Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75
and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only
$53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment
rails for about $30.

Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.


Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118"
track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with
the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or
transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a
55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be
careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and
the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.

FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
article.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/to...lunge-cut_saws


Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
to a different location is going to become important.

I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
truck tool storage area. sigh Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
That's $2.50/yr.


These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.

Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On 1/27/2012 9:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:



FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
article.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/to...lunge-cut_saws


Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
to a different location is going to become important.

I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
truck tool storage area.sigh Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
That's $2.50/yr.

I think the easiest carrier might be a 6" piece of pvc sewer pipe.
Cap one end and put a cleanout on the other. Put a handle in the middle
to handle the beast. That will keep the track from getting banged about.


These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.

Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On 1/27/2012 8:40 PM, tiredofspam wrote:


On 1/27/2012 9:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:



FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
article.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/to...lunge-cut_saws


Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
to a different location is going to become important.

I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
truck tool storage area.sigh Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
That's $2.50/yr.

I think the easiest carrier might be a 6" piece of pvc sewer pipe.
Cap one end and put a cleanout on the other. Put a handle in the middle
to handle the beast. That will keep the track from getting banged about.

Not sure about the Makita track but the Festool track is just under 7.5"
wide.

On 1/27/2012 8:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

Meh ...

Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...88839479418594

Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.

What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
the fluorescent green plastic?

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.

All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.

The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to

An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.

Doh! ;~) That would make sense. But remember for ease of use you want
the saw to be clear of the sheet on both ends of the panel. 110" -96"
=14"/2 = 7" for the base of the saw. And if you rip a sheet diagonally
you need more length.





cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to
track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang
to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will
tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track
behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut.
If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough
to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end
with either brand.

How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the
guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a
clean cut?

Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
have to pick them up and place them.






Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at
the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood.
With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the
saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the
beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the
optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both
ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track?

UGH!


It is likely the
track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay
flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you
put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on
the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further
increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track
can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the
55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.

Or the pair of 55s.

Yeah



Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the
same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can
be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to
just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working
with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75"
track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I
mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.

Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of
possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as
much price difference as you might think.

What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged
down in a cut?

Never has bogged down although Keith has the TS55 and is not happy with
the power.






The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs
$655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75"
track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as
they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that
you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with
the Makita.
So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175.
If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.

Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75
and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only
$53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment
rails for about $30.

Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.

Yeah I agree with that one but it cost me that much to hunt down the
material, cut it, and thread 8 screws into it.





Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118"
track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with
the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or
transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a
55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be
careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and
the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.

FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
article.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/to...lunge-cut_saws

No doubt, IIRC Dewalt scaled thir saw the same as Festool also.






Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
to a different location is going to become important.

I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
truck tool storage area.sigh Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
That's $2.50/yr.


These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.

Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.

Keep in mind that if you have to move the track in the middle of a cut
you probably will not get a perfectly straight line from one end of the
cut to the other.




--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

On 1/27/2012 8:08 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 08:27:56 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/26/2012 4:10 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:13:53 -0600, wrote:

On 1/25/2012 8:45 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

g You and Swingy planted that damned plunge saw idea in my head and
I still haven't gotten it out. I'll be going with the Makita
SP6000K1, though. Some day, when the money starts flowing again this
year...

Meh ...

Plunge cuts deluxe: scroll right from this picture to see how it's done,
with the best tool for the job:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...88839479418594

Hmmm...A $550 saw to cut a hole in a chicken coop? Irony abounds.
Oh, excuse me. A coup de poulet, er, poulailler.

What does the EQ 55 have that the SP6000K1 doesn't? I mean, besides
the fluorescent green plastic?

--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois

Ok, getting serious here, something to consider.

All things being equal, consider the tracks lengths.

The Makita comes with a 55" track and apparently the only other track
that is available is a 118" track. That track is going to cost you at
least $175 plus shipping. In reality you "can" use the 55" track to

An additional 55" track and connectors will run $130, incl. s/h.

Doh! ;~) That would make sense. But remember for ease of use you want
the saw to be clear of the sheet on both ends of the panel. 110" -96"
=14"/2 = 7" for the base of the saw. And if you rip a sheet diagonally
you need more length.





cross cut a sheet of plywood but you do have to pay close attention to
track overhang on both sides. If you don't have enough track over hang
to begin with you have to start with a partial plunge cut and saw will
tend to want to push backwards. Festool provides a stop for the track
behind the saw to prevent any backwards movement during a plunge cut.
If you have plenty of over hang to start with you will not have enough
to guide the saw straight all the way through the cut on the far end
with either brand.

How much of a problem is it to stop the saw in mid-cut, shift the
guide, and start up again? Doesn't the guide practically guarantee a
clean cut?

Takes 3 times longer and you are not going to get it placed perfectly,
the line will not be perfectly straight and you will likely have a
start/stop point. Remember you really cannot slide these tracks, you
have to pick them up and place them.






Basically you want the saw base to be in full contact with the track at
the beginning and end of the cut with the blade not touching the wood.
With a combined total of 7" of the track overhanging on both ends the
saw base is not going to be in full contact with the track either at the
beginning or end of the cut or both. The alternative is to use the
optional 118", track with a minimum of 35" of track hanging over on both
ends. Where are you going to store a 10 foot track?

UGH!


It is likely the
track will bow up in the middle and you really do want the track to lay
flat to gain full advantage of its ability to grip and stay where you
put it before you set the saw on it. And you will be setting the saw on
the part of the track that is hanging over the edge of the work, further
increasing the chance of the track moving on the other end. So a track
can be too long too. AND if you are cutting Baltic birch plywood the
55" simply is not going to work at all, the 118" track will be mandatory.

Or the pair of 55s.

Yeah



Not saying your choice here is a bad one at all, the Festool has the
same basic problem however Festool has a solution. Festool tracks can
be attached to each other and are available in numerous lengths up to
just over 16' down to 32". I have a 55" and a 75" track. When working
with full sheets of plywood I never use anything shorter than the 75"
track and when ripping full length I use the 75" and 55" together. I
mostly use the 55" for small panels and to lengthen the 75" track.

Having said that if you happen to put Festool back into the realm of
possible choices do not rule out the TS75 track saw, there is not as
much price difference as you might think.

What are the advantages of the larger saw? Has your TS55 every bogged
down in a cut?

Never has bogged down although Keith has the TS55 and is not happy with
the power.






The price difference between the TS55 and the TS75 is $130. $525. vs
$655. The TS55 comes with the 55" track, the TS75 comes with the 75"
track. Seriously if you intend to get as much use out of these saws as
they are capable of you are going to need to buy an extra track so that
you can at least rip a sheet of plywood and or an 8' board, even with
the Makita.
So, if you buy the TS55 you will need to add a 75" track at $175.
If you buy a TS75 you will need to buy a 55" track at $98.

Considering that the TS55 and two tracks will cost you $700 and the TS75
and two tracks will cost you $753. Now the difference in price is only
$53 vs. $130. To combine two tracks you will need a pair of attachment
rails for about $30.

Ain't -that- a ripoff? They look like pieces of 1/4" bar stock.

Yeah I agree with that one but it cost me that much to hunt down the
material, cut it, and thread 8 screws into it.





Granted the approximate price of the Makita with the 55" and the 118"
track will only be $567 vs $700. or $53 more for the larger saw but with
the Festool you have tracks that are both easy to store and or
transport. If you are toing to a job site you are going to be hauling a
55" and 75" track vs a 118" track. With either brand you want to be
careful with the tracks, you really do not want to bend or bow one and
the shorter they are the less likely this will happen.

FYI, I believe the Festool can ride a Makita track and both use the
same connector. Look at the ends of the compared tracks in this
article.
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/to...lunge-cut_saws

No doubt, IIRC Dewalt scaled thir saw the same as Festool also.






Just something to consider if you plan to use the saw and both tracks
very much. And something else to consider, you will use this saw much
more than you might think so ease of storage and transport of the tracks
to a different location is going to become important.

I hear that. I'd build a lightweight carrier for them. I've already
lost one half of the 8' guide I had for cutting ply to the back of my
truck tool storage area.sigh Luckily, I got 30+ years out of it.
That's $2.50/yr.


These saws are great for putting a straight glue line edge on an 8'~9'
S2S board with the 55" and 75" tracks and or the 118" Makita track.
And that happens much faster than on the jointer. One pass, not several.

Ayup. That's the kind of data I'm after, and which has finally sold
me on the track saw. Thanks for the detailed info.

Keep in mind that if you have to move the track in the middle of a cut
you probably will not get a perfectly straight line from one end of the
cut to the other.




--
Creativity can solve almost any problem. The creative act,
the defeat of habit by originality, overcomes everything.
-- George Lois