Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?


Only for very very stupid people and they'd probably find a way to cut them
selves on a pencil sharpener.

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods

www.heirloom-woods.net
"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net

"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

This has been talked about here for quite a while, 3 or 4 yeare IIRC.

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

Only for those that can find a way to get hurt by a saw that is not plugged
in. Does the safety on a gun make it more dangerous because it will
encourage you to look down the barrel of a loaded gun? If you are tye type
person that would not have some fear of a 3400 rpm blade because you know
that it will stop turning if you touch it, something else is going to get
you long bedor the saw will. Pedestrians always have the right of way on
the street. Those that practice that right over better judgement get hit by
cars. Like anything else in life, there are dangers all around us all the
time. The Saw Stop is designed to lessen the results of an accident, not
prevent the accident. If you think that it would make you less careful
around the saw, perhaps you should not be around the saw to start with.

Or paper?

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:42:40 -0400, "Mike G"
wrote:

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?


Only for very very stupid people and they'd probably find a way to cut them
selves on a pencil sharpener.

"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net

Nope. Never heard of it.

todd

"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net

The problem with this new device is that all table saws made previously are
defective in the eyes of greedy lawyers. They will demand table saw
manufacturers incorporate this device on all new saws and provide recalls to
retrofit old saws. Also, what about the thousands who have lost fingers to
the evil table saw. They will demand compensation because their saw did not
have this safety feature. It's all about sucking the money out of the evil
corporations and there is no personal responsibility.

Not being negative about the safety device. It has to prove it's worth (cost
vs. benefit). It's just that someone else is always deciding this for us
idiots who can't do anything without hurting ourselves.

Howard wrote:
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net

The number one safety feature of any device is the one between your ears.

--

Christian Groth


Nothing is fool-proof;
Fools are just too dang creative.

My son-in-law is a woodworker and a family practice physician. He has seen
the demo and is concerned this is going to cut in on his business.

Seriously, I know nothing about it. I do know I got cut pretty bad a few
years ago after the saw was turned off. I walked back to the machine to
pick up a piece of cutoff and didn't notice the blade was still spinning. I
doubt if this would protect us from this kind of stupidity.

"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net

"RonB" wrote in message
news:kMDEc.22559$rn1.10518@okepread07...
My son-in-law is a woodworker and a family practice physician. He has
seen
the demo and is concerned this is going to cut in on his business.

Seriously, I know nothing about it. I do know I got cut pretty bad a few
years ago after the saw was turned off. I walked back to the machine to
pick up a piece of cutoff and didn't notice the blade was still spinning.
I
doubt if this would protect us from this kind of stupidity.


I did the almost same thing almost 16 years ago. I e-mailed the Saw Stop
people a couple of years ago and they indicated that the device will work
even if the power to the motor has been turned off.

"C.Groth" wrote in message
...
Howard wrote:

The number one safety feature of any device is the one between your ears.

Exactly, and it even makes mistakes. Note the first line of your line
below.


--

Christian Groth


Nothing is fool-proof;
Fools are just too dang creative.

no. for every fool that thinks they are invincible and may get hurt due to
lack of respect, there are others (more people) that didnt get their hand
cut off because the sawstop worked. in fact in many cases it would probably
even save the fool.

not to mention anyone who thinks the safety device is a substitute for
thinking is gonna get hurt no matter what eventually...

randy

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

Millions of hotdogs are resting easier all over the world tonight....

"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net

"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.

I don't recall them stipulating human flesh, and this is one reason I won't
buy one. I am afraid my cat pushsticks would trip the stupid thing.

Frank

"Leon" wrote in message
...


I did the almost same thing almost 16 years ago. I e-mailed the Saw Stop
people a couple of years ago and they indicated that the device will work
even if the power to the motor has been turned off.


You're kidding, right? This thing will fire if you touch the blade after
power has been removed from the motor? How in the hell are you supposed to
change blades without this thing going off?

Frank

xrongor wrote:

no. for every fool that thinks they are invincible and may get hurt due
to lack of respect, there are others (more people) that didnt get their
hand
cut off because the sawstop worked.

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off because the
Sawstop worked.

Put not your faith in vaporware.

in fact in many cases it would probably even save the fool.

not to mention anyone who thinks the safety device is a substitute for
thinking is gonna get hurt no matter what eventually...

randy

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Frank Ketchum" wrote in
k.net:


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I did the almost same thing almost 16 years ago. I e-mailed the Saw
Stop people a couple of years ago and they indicated that the device
will work even if the power to the motor has been turned off.


You're kidding, right? This thing will fire if you touch the blade
after power has been removed from the motor? How in the hell are you
supposed to change blades without this thing going off?

Frank




With great difficulty and a lot of time.

Lobby Dosser wrote:

"Frank Ketchum" wrote in
k.net:


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I did the almost same thing almost 16 years ago. I e-mailed the Saw
Stop people a couple of years ago and they indicated that the device
will work even if the power to the motor has been turned off.


You're kidding, right? This thing will fire if you touch the blade
after power has been removed from the motor? How in the hell are you
supposed to change blades without this thing going off?

Frank




With great difficulty and a lot of time.

Most likely it shuts itself down when the blade stops moving.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

Lobby Dosser wrote:

"Frank Ketchum" wrote in
k.net:


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I did the almost same thing almost 16 years ago. I e-mailed the Saw
Stop people a couple of years ago and they indicated that the device
will work even if the power to the motor has been turned off.


You're kidding, right? This thing will fire if you touch the blade
after power has been removed from the motor? How in the hell are you
supposed to change blades without this thing going off?

Frank




With great difficulty and a lot of time.

Most likely it shuts itself down when the blade stops moving.

Ever tried changing a blade without moving it?

Presumably if you pull the power cord, you'd shut it down.

Lobby Dosser wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

Lobby Dosser wrote:

"Frank Ketchum" wrote in
k.net:


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I did the almost same thing almost 16 years ago. I e-mailed the Saw
Stop people a couple of years ago and they indicated that the device
will work even if the power to the motor has been turned off.


You're kidding, right? This thing will fire if you touch the blade
after power has been removed from the motor? How in the hell are you
supposed to change blades without this thing going off?

Frank




With great difficulty and a lot of time.

Most likely it shuts itself down when the blade stops moving.

Ever tried changing a blade without moving it?

I don't generally turn on the power in order to do it. Geez, it's the 21st
century--kitchen appliances have more processing power than a '60s
mainframe--how hard do you think it is to program a control so that "if
power has been turned on and off and blade is moving and skin touches it
activate, if blade has stopped and moves again and power has not been
turned on then do not activate".

Presumably if you pull the power cord, you'd shut it down.

How much power do you think it draws? I suspect that it has some kind of
backup power source with enough juice to keep it armed until the saw quits
turning. That's the way I'd design it.


--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Frank Ketchum" wrote in message
k.net...

You're kidding, right? This thing will fire if you touch the blade after
power has been removed from the motor? How in the hell are you supposed
to
change blades without this thing going off?


A person being concerned about safety and his well being would probably
UNPLUG the saw.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off because
the
Sawstop worked.

Contact Saw Stop, the demonstration did at least once or twice include a
live connected human hand part. Apparently between being tired of being
nicked or working up the nerve to do this limited this persuasive
demonstration.

If there are cat parts in a weenie your push stick should automatically be
ruled out. ;~)


"Frank Ketchum" wrote in message
.net...

"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.

I don't recall them stipulating human flesh, and this is one reason I
won't
buy one. I am afraid my cat pushsticks would trip the stupid thing.

Frank

"J. Clarke" said:

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off
because the Sawstop worked.

Put not your faith in vaporware.

I heard Kelly Mehler talk about Sawstop and it isn't vaporware. It's real
and apparently it works quite well. The device has been undergoing
refinement for several years. I would pay an additional $150 to gain
almost fullproof protection against losing a finger.
--
Mac Cool

Do a search on this group for that device and you will find all kinds of
info and opinions.

"Howard" wrote in message
...
A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

Lobby Dosser wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

Lobby Dosser wrote:

"Frank Ketchum" wrote in
k.net:


"Leon" wrote in message
...


I did the almost same thing almost 16 years ago. I e-mailed the
Saw Stop people a couple of years ago and they indicated that the
device will work even if the power to the motor has been turned
off.


You're kidding, right? This thing will fire if you touch the
blade after power has been removed from the motor? How in the
hell are you supposed to change blades without this thing going
off?

Frank




With great difficulty and a lot of time.

Most likely it shuts itself down when the blade stops moving.

Ever tried changing a blade without moving it?

I don't generally turn on the power in order to do it. Geez, it's the
21st century--kitchen appliances have more processing power than a
'60s mainframe--how hard do you think it is to program a control so
that "if power has been turned on and off and blade is moving and skin
touches it activate, if blade has stopped and moves again and power
has not been turned on then do not activate".

Presumably if you pull the power cord, you'd shut it down.

How much power do you think it draws? I suspect that it has some kind
of backup power source with enough juice to keep it armed until the
saw quits turning. That's the way I'd design it.

Ah, but you sound like you know what you're doing. How many electronic or
electrical gadgets do you own or use that are 'perfect'? This keyboard
fer instance ....

show me one person that DID get their hand cut off even with this system
installed. somehow i dont think the hot dog had any special properties
about it that makes the demonstration not relevant for a hand.

im not trying to say it should be made mandatory. but if you're saying its
all vaporware, i think its YOU that needs to provide some proof. similiar
systems have been installed for other things for years and they work. or
maybe you're still fighting the seat belt people too.

randy

no. for every fool that thinks they are invincible and may get hurt due
to lack of respect, there are others (more people) that didnt get their
hand
cut off because the sawstop worked.

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off because
the
Sawstop worked.

Put not your faith in vaporware.

in fact in many cases it would probably even save the fool.

not to mention anyone who thinks the safety device is a substitute for
thinking is gonna get hurt no matter what eventually...

randy

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

xrongor writes:
show me one person that DID get their hand cut off even with this system
installed. somehow i dont think the hot dog had any special properties
about it that makes the

Unrealistic. The unit is not in general release, probably no more than a couple
dozen floating around, if that many. How can you compare, especially negatives,
when the other systems have millions in use.

im not trying to say it should be made mandatory. but if you're saying its
all vaporware, i think its YOU that needs to provide some proof. similiar
systems have been installed for other things for years and they work.

Where have they been installed?

Charlie Self
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from
man."
H. L. Mencken

"Mac Cool" wrote in message

I heard Kelly Mehler talk about Sawstop and it isn't vaporware.

Who do you know that owns one?

In article , "Leon" wrote:
"Frank Ketchum" wrote in message
nk.net...

You're kidding, right? This thing will fire if you touch the blade after
power has been removed from the motor? How in the hell are you supposed
to
change blades without this thing going off?


A person being concerned about safety and his well being would probably
UNPLUG the saw.

Which I never bothered doing, until seeing a thread here a year or so back
about a Unisaw that turned on by itself (apparently a defective switch).
Figuring that mid-blade-change is a bad time for this to occur, I _always_
unplug now before changing blades. It takes only a few seconds.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off because
the
Sawstop worked.


It is not a widely used product yet. How can you demand results from
something not being used yet? He is saying if the thing is ramrodded down
our throats then there will most certainly eventually be people who benefit
from it by not being injured. He is quite correct about that, there is no
doubt. That doesn't mean, however that it should be a requirement any
machinery.

Frank

xrongor wrote:

show me one person that DID get their hand cut off even with this system
installed. somehow i dont think the hot dog had any special properties
about it that makes the demonstration not relevant for a hand.

Fine, I'll rephrase the question so that maybe even you can understand it.
When has there ever been an _opportunity_ for someone to get his hand cut
off or be saved from getting his hand cut off by this system?

im not trying to say it should be made mandatory. but if you're saying
its
all vaporware, i think its YOU that needs to provide some proof. similiar
systems have been installed for other things for years and they work. or
maybe you're still fighting the seat belt people too.

Fine, tell me how I can get one.


randy

no. for every fool that thinks they are invincible and may get hurt
due to lack of respect, there are others (more people) that didnt get
their hand
cut off because the sawstop worked.

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off because
the
Sawstop worked.

Put not your faith in vaporware.

in fact in many cases it would probably even save the fool.

not to mention anyone who thinks the safety device is a substitute for
thinking is gonna get hurt no matter what eventually...

randy

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Mac Cool wrote:

"J. Clarke" said:

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off
because the Sawstop worked.

Put not your faith in vaporware.

I heard Kelly Mehler talk about Sawstop and it isn't vaporware. It's real
and apparently it works quite well. The device has been undergoing
refinement for several years. I would pay an additional $150 to gain
almost fullproof protection against losing a finger.

I remember a computer from Zeos that had PCI and Microchannel slots. It was
real and _apparently_ worked quite well. It underwent refinement for
several years. They never shipped a single solitary one of them.
Vaporware.

There once was a little gadget that fit in a 35mm camera replacing the film
canister--it has thin extension with a CCD on it that turns the 35mm camera
into a digital camera. It was real and _apparently_ worked quite well. It
underwent refinement for several years. Then never shipped a single
solitary one of them. Vaporware.

Larry Bond and company have a solid track record in the naval simulation
game business, with Harpoon and Harpoon II shipping and available. In 1997
they started work on Harpoon IV. It was real and _apparently_ worked quite
well. On November 27, 2003 the project was cancelled with no product
delivered. Vaporware.

Are you beginning to see a pattern?

The fact that a prototype has been demonstrated does not mean that the
product will ever become available commercially.

As for paying $150 to gain almost foolproof protection against losing a
finger, would you toss your Unisaw to buy one of theirs?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Leon wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off because
the
Sawstop worked.

Contact Saw Stop, the demonstration did at least once or twice include a
live connected human hand part. Apparently between being tired of being
nicked or working up the nerve to do this limited this persuasive
demonstration.

I'm not sure that that counts as "didn't get their hand cut off". If the
thing had not triggered would he have really contined to feed his whole
hand through the saw? And would it have prevented someone who really
wanted to cut his hand off from doing so? Note that the saws they are
looking to sell have a defeat switch.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Frank Ketchum wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off because
the
Sawstop worked.


It is not a widely used product yet. How can you demand results from
something not being used yet? He is saying if the thing is ramrodded down
our throats then there will most certainly eventually be people who
benefit
from it by not being injured. He is quite correct about that, there is no
doubt. That doesn't mean, however that it should be a requirement any
machinery.

He _said_
"for*every*fool*that*thinks*they*are*invincible*an d*may*get*hurt*due to
lack of respect, there are others (more people) that didnt get their hand
cut off because the sawstop worked."

I'm merely attempting to ascertain the actual corporeal existence of at
least one of these "others". Perhaps he meant something other than what he
said. If so, he should have recognized that his phrasing was the source of
my confusion and clarified.

Frank

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

I'm not sure that that counts as "didn't get their hand cut off".

Well, in the theme of your comment, Please identify one individual who
didn't get their hand cut off because the Sawstop worked. I think we all
know that you were wanting to know of some one that was not using a
substitute for real human flesh to trigger the stop. The hand actually was
not cut off during the demonstration with a real human flesh.

If the thing had not triggered would he have really contined to feed his
whole
hand through the saw?

Do you not have the intuition to answer that your self?

And would it have prevented someone who really wanted to cut his hand off
from doing so? Note that the saws they are looking to sell have a defeat
switch.

And again I answer with a the question, Do you not have the intuition to
answer that your self?

"xrongor" wrote in message
...

im not trying to say it should be made mandatory. but if you're saying
its
all vaporware, i think its YOU that needs to provide some proof. similiar
systems have been installed for other things for years and they work. or
maybe you're still fighting the seat belt people too.

I think J.Clarke is bored and likes to argue.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
xrongor writes:
show me one person that DID get their hand cut off even with this system
installed. somehow i dont think the hot dog had any special properties
about it that makes the

Unrealistic. The unit is not in general release, probably no more than a
couple
dozen floating around, if that many. How can you compare, especially
negatives,
when the other systems have millions in use.

im not trying to compare anything. J Clarke claims its vaporware and doesnt
work. i'd like to see his evidence and offered up a suggestion as to what
credible evidence might be.

as you say, how can you compare? apparantly he has a way....


im not trying to say it should be made mandatory. but if you're saying
its
all vaporware, i think its YOU that needs to provide some proof.
similiar
systems have been installed for other things for years and they work.

Where have they been installed?

for one simple example touch lamps. granted it takes a little more
sophisticated system for a saw stop, but its still the same basic principle.
contact with a conductor (i.e. you) changes the electrical characteristics
of the system and can be detected.

im not going to defend saw stop. but im not going to take it on the word of
JClarke that it doesnt work either. the theory is sound, and they are
either totally faking those demonstrations, or i think its clear that less
people would be hurt with them even if it didnt work 100% of the time.

randy

"J. Clarke" said:

Are you beginning to see a pattern?

Yeah. You seem to have an interest in Sawstop failing... why?

The fact that a prototype has been demonstrated does not mean that the
product will ever become available commercially.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I say they'll come to market.

As for paying $150 to gain almost foolproof protection against losing a
finger, would you toss your Unisaw to buy one of theirs?

If I were in the market for a new saw, I would pay an additional $150 for
that type of protection. I wouldn't 'toss' a perfectly good Unisaw for the
sake of a $150 safety device.
--
Mac Cool

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Frank Ketchum wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

Please identify one individual who didn't get their hand cut off
because
the
Sawstop worked.


It is not a widely used product yet. How can you demand results from
something not being used yet? He is saying if the thing is ramrodded
down
our throats then there will most certainly eventually be people who
benefit
from it by not being injured. He is quite correct about that, there is
no
doubt. That doesn't mean, however that it should be a requirement any
machinery.

He _said_
"for every fool that thinks they are invincible and may get hurt due to
lack of respect, there are others (more people) that didnt get their hand
cut off because the sawstop worked."

I'm merely attempting to ascertain the actual corporeal existence of at
least one of these "others". Perhaps he meant something other than what
he
said. If so, he should have recognized that his phrasing was the source
of
my confusion and clarified.

Frank

you arent trying to ascertain anything. you are stating as fact that
sawstop doesnt work and doesnt exist. and ducking proving by trying to put
me on the defensive.

what i was responding to was a question about whether or not more injuries
would occur because people put too much trust in the system. which i think
is false. im not claiming any actual hands were saved or cut off. im just
saying that just because people use safety goggles and splitters it doesnt
cause more accidents because they become complacent, and same with the
sawstop. go back and check it out if you dont believe me. i think had you
bothered to read the thread as it played out, it would be clear. it took
quite a stretch to get us this far frank.. lets see how much further you can
stretch it g

randy

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Mac Cool" wrote in message

I heard Kelly Mehler talk about Sawstop and it isn't vaporware.

Who do you know that owns one?


i think there is some confusion about the term 'vaporware' which is defined
as websters as:

"Products announced far in advance of any release (which may or may not
actually take place)"

saw stop claims that you can buy one today. if this is true, its not
vaporware. if its not it is. whether or not somebody actually owns one is
irrelevant.

randy

xrongor responds:

im not going to defend saw stop. but im not going to take it on the word of
JClarke that it doesnt work either. the theory is sound, and they are
either totally faking those demonstrations, or i think its clear that less
people would be hurt with them even if it didnt work 100% of the time.

I've seen it work---with a hot dog--at least on video. I don't doubt the theory
works, but is the application practical. It prevents, primarily, amputation
style injuries. How many of those are there a year? Is it worth having every
table saw in the U.S. built, or retrofitted, with a device that currently costs
about $500 to save 50-60 people from their own misbehavior? If the figure is
even that high.

That's what is more likely to cause this to become vaporware than any doubt
that it actually works. Economics. A proper crown guard with a splitter will do
about 95-90% (my guesstimate) of what the saw stop will do. Total cost is
probably about $50, and allows the makers to dump the current crappy
splitter/guard assemblies, to reduce costs even more.

Charlie Self
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from
man."
H. L. Mencken