Krow wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:

Bruce Barnett asks:

SNIP

Ayup. And they say $150 up front cost (if installed on the assembly
line) and a
$75 cartridge replacement cost, but say nothing of the strain on the
arbor and
trunnions when the assembly instantly drops below the table and is
jammed to a
stop.

Charlie Self
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has
descended from
man."
H. L. Mencken



Think about what you're saying here. IF it works, I'm wondering if I
ran my fingers into the blade and it snapped my arbor and trunnions -
destroyed my saw - but didn't leave me fingerless, would I feel I'd
rather have lost my fingers (or arm or...) than the saw? I don't know
of any piece of machinery anywhere that I'd trade for any body part.

Keith
so you are WILLING to use poorly thought-out technology that
self-destructs instead of voting with your dollars to demand
that any mfgr. who wants a piece of the "safe" table saw
market make a unit that works WITHOUT SELF-DESTRUCTING??

dave

Krow responds:

Ayup. And they say $150 up front cost (if installed on the assembly line)
and a
$75 cartridge replacement cost, but say nothing of the strain on the arbor
and
trunnions when the assembly instantly drops below the table and is jammed
to a
stop.

Charlie Self
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended
from
man."
H. L. Mencken



Think about what you're saying here. IF it works, I'm wondering if I
ran my fingers into the blade and it snapped my arbor and trunnions -
destroyed my saw - but didn't leave me fingerless, would I feel I'd
rather have lost my fingers (or arm or...) than the saw? I don't know
of any piece of machinery anywhere that I'd trade for any body part.

Ah, well...why would you "run your fingers" into the blade.

First, that's not the only choice, and it is almost an incidental one as minor
table saw accidents far outnumber even single digit amputations. Second, if
you're so bloody nervous about running your fingers into the saw blade, buy a
Brett Guard or one of the others on the market. Very effective, easy to use, no
false positives, a great addition to any table saw, with proven technology that
even adds a dust collector point to the top of your table saw blade, where it's
really needed.

The trade is not necessarily a body part for a destroyed PM 66. It's more
likely to be a moderate cut for the same PM 66. Or a false reading when you're
10' away from the saw.

Your hands. Your money.

Charlie Self
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from
man."
H. L. Mencken

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
...

so you are WILLING to use poorly thought-out technology that
self-destructs instead of voting with your dollars to demand
that any mfgr. who wants a piece of the "safe" table saw
market make a unit that works WITHOUT SELF-DESTRUCTING??


I suppose you have documentation that indicates that the saw self destructs.

In article , "xrongor" wrote:
No, it's not clear at all _what_ you intended. Try "No. For every fool
who
thinks he is invincible and may get hurt due to lack of respect there
would
be others that didn't get their hand cut off because the sawstop worked."

you want me to cut your steak for you to g

In "On Writing Well" William Zinsser wrote "the purpose of writing is not to
make oneself understood; rather, it is to make it impossible to be
misunderstood."

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .
In article , "xrongor"
wrote:
No, it's not clear at all _what_ you intended. Try "No. For every
fool
who
thinks he is invincible and may get hurt due to lack of respect there
would
be others that didn't get their hand cut off because the sawstop
worked."

you want me to cut your steak for you to g

In "On Writing Well" William Zinsser wrote "the purpose of writing is not
to
make oneself understood; rather, it is to make it impossible to be
misunderstood."

which is, impossible.

randy

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 20:16:32 GMT, Krow
wrote:

Charlie Self wrote:

Bruce Barnett asks:
SNIP
Ayup. And they say $150 up front cost (if installed on the assembly line) and a
$75 cartridge replacement cost, but say nothing of the strain on the arbor and
trunnions when the assembly instantly drops below the table and is jammed to a
stop.

Charlie Self
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from
man."
H. L. Mencken



Think about what you're saying here. IF it works, I'm wondering if I
ran my fingers into the blade and it snapped my arbor and trunnions -
destroyed my saw - but didn't leave me fingerless, would I feel I'd
rather have lost my fingers (or arm or...) than the saw? I don't know
of any piece of machinery anywhere that I'd trade for any body part.

Keith



nobody is gonna argue that saving a finger from amputation is worth
more than a machine.

what is not acceptable is having a system foisted off on us in the
name of safety that randomly disables your table saw until you
replace a $75 part that is available from only one vendor, who has so
far a track record of being unable to deliver *anything* when they
promise to, who believes their path to economic success in the
marketplace is to hire lawyers to pass legislation that makes
*everyone* with a saw buy their product. **** that.

what will happen is that after a few false trips and a few hundred
dollars ****ed away most people will override the damn thing. then you
will have a bunch of machines in use with NO safety equipment.... sort
of like every table saw I've ever used. guess what? I still have all
of my fingers, and I've been using tablesaws professionally for over
20 years.

Leon wrote:


"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
...

so you are WILLING to use poorly thought-out technology that
self-destructs instead of voting with your dollars to demand
that any mfgr. who wants a piece of the "safe" table saw
market make a unit that works WITHOUT SELF-DESTRUCTING??


I suppose you have documentation that indicates that the saw self
destructs.

Whether the saw self-destructs is one thing, the device itself
self-destructing is quite well established. Brush finger against side of
blade, saw stops. You're dead in the water until the can send you a new
cartridge.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wrote:

nobody is gonna argue that saving a finger from amputation is worth
more than a machine.

ISTR a football player who lost a part of a finger to play in a
Superbowl/Playoff game. He could have not played and had the part of the
finger reattached but instead chose the glory of the gridiron over
completeness of body parts. I don't recall the name but it wasn't Steve
DeBerg.

-- Mark

Leon wrote:

"Bay Area Dave" wrote in message
...


so you are WILLING to use poorly thought-out technology that
self-destructs instead of voting with your dollars to demand
that any mfgr. who wants a piece of the "safe" table saw
market make a unit that works WITHOUT SELF-DESTRUCTING??



I suppose you have documentation that indicates that the saw self destructs.


no! I was foolishly relying on what another poster
mentioned about the operation of the SawStop. WHAT WAS I
THINKING???!!

Leon, I don't have enough interest in the SawStop to
investigate their various claims. I've given it a cursory
look-see and dismissed it. My Unisaw will most likely be my
last TS. Not that it MIGHT be a worthwhile investment for
someone in the market for an overpriced TS.

dave

wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 20:16:32 GMT, Krow
wrote:


Charlie Self wrote:


Bruce Barnett asks:

SNIP

Ayup. And they say $150 up front cost (if installed on the assembly line) and a
$75 cartridge replacement cost, but say nothing of the strain on the arbor and
trunnions when the assembly instantly drops below the table and is jammed to a
stop.

Charlie Self
"It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from
man."
H. L. Mencken




Think about what you're saying here. IF it works, I'm wondering if I
ran my fingers into the blade and it snapped my arbor and trunnions -
destroyed my saw - but didn't leave me fingerless, would I feel I'd
rather have lost my fingers (or arm or...) than the saw? I don't know
of any piece of machinery anywhere that I'd trade for any body part.

Keith




nobody is gonna argue that saving a finger from amputation is worth
more than a machine.

what is not acceptable is having a system foisted off on us in the
name of safety that randomly disables your table saw until you
replace a $75 part that is available from only one vendor, who has so
far a track record of being unable to deliver *anything* when they
promise to, who believes their path to economic success in the
marketplace is to hire lawyers to pass legislation that makes
*everyone* with a saw buy their product. **** that.

what will happen is that after a few false trips and a few hundred
dollars ****ed away most people will override the damn thing. then you
will have a bunch of machines in use with NO safety equipment.... sort
of like every table saw I've ever used. guess what? I still have all
of my fingers, and I've been using tablesaws professionally for over
20 years.
so IF you override the safety is there a big red warning
flag that pops ups to alert all users that it is now just a
"regular" TS??

dave

Bay Area Dave wrote:

Not that it MIGHT be a
worthwhile investment for someone in the market for an overpriced TS.

dave

looks like I left out a "not" after "MIGHT". kinda, sorta
changes the meaning of the last sentence to what I was
intending. g

dave

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
Whether the saw self-destructs is one thing, the device itself
self-destructing is quite well established. Brush finger against side of
blade, saw stops. You're dead in the water until the can send you a new
cartridge.

Yeah I am sure no one would have the fore site to get an extra cartridge
when they buy the saw.

This whole thread on this matter is the republicans against the democrats.
Neither side is completely wrong.

Leon wrote:


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
Whether the saw self-destructs is one thing, the device itself
self-destructing is quite well established. Brush finger against side of
blade, saw stops. You're dead in the water until the can send you a new
cartridge.

Yeah I am sure no one would have the fore site to get an extra cartridge
when they buy the saw.

How often does the thing false? If it does it often you might use up a lot
of cartridges at 75 bucks a pop.

This whole thread on this matter is the republicans against the democrats.
Neither side is completely wrong.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Second, if
you're so bloody nervous about running your fingers into the saw blade,
buy a
Brett Guard or one of the others on the market. Very effective, easy to
use, no
false positives, a great addition to any table saw, with proven technology
that
even adds a dust collector point to the top of your table saw blade, where
it's
really needed.

But what about hot dogs? We know the Saw Stop is effective if you drop your
lunch but will the Brett Guard protect my wiener from a tragic end if it
falls on the saw table during lunch?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

snip

We know the Saw Stop is effective if you drop your
lunch but will the Brett Guard protect my wiener from a tragic end if it
falls on the saw table during lunch?

I'm sorry. It's late and I can't come up with a response that will give
this setup justice. Anyone else?

todd

Howard wrote:

A device that stops a blade within 5 ms of contact with human flesh.
Videos of operation at http://www.sawstop.com/home.htm (this site may
be 'slashdotted', so check back in a day or so if you can't see it).

This device was introduced in 2001, and was supposed to be
commercially available by 2003. The device is supposed to add about
$150 to the cost of a consumer-grade table saw or bandsaw.

Gotta wonder, though... will this type of technology actually
*increase* injuries because of a reduction in respect for the tool?

---
Howard Lee Harkness
Insurance for H1-Bs: http://www.H1Bins.com
Healthcare for the uninsurable: http://www.AFFHC.com
Medigap insurance information: http://medigap.supremesite.net
saw this on a TV show about tools years ago... they used a hot
dog(weiner) to show how it worked... and it did stop... the hot dog only
had a nick on it... better than loosing a finger(just a nick)...

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 22:17:13 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
wrote:

wrote:

nobody is gonna argue that saving a finger from amputation is worth
more than a machine.

ISTR a football player who lost a part of a finger to play in a
Superbowl/Playoff game. He could have not played and had the part of the
finger reattached but instead chose the glory of the gridiron over
completeness of body parts. I don't recall the name but it wasn't Steve
DeBerg.

-- Mark




okay, I should have said... few will argue.....

bite me.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
.. .

But what about hot dogs? We know the Saw Stop is effective if you drop
your
lunch but will the Brett Guard protect my wiener from a tragic end if it
falls on the saw table during lunch?


If the Brett Guard is working properly, your wiener will not be detached and
there fore will not fall of the table saw. LOL

wrote in
:

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 22:17:13 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
wrote:

wrote:

nobody is gonna argue that saving a finger from amputation is worth
more than a machine.

ISTR a football player who lost a part of a finger to play in a
Superbowl/Playoff game. He could have not played and had the part of the
finger reattached but instead chose the glory of the gridiron over
completeness of body parts. I don't recall the name but it wasn't Steve
DeBerg.

-- Mark

Ronnie Lott. Hall of Fame Free safety, SF 49er's. Otherwise, an
apparently sane individual, who was also a hell of a pro football player.

Saw Stop: Let the market decide.

"Edwin Pawlowski" writes:

But what about hot dogs?

I don't relish the thought of the puns that will follow. I expect the
crowd will mustard replacements and try to catchup in the run-on
puns. Will they have to go to the Mayo clinic for surgery.
(pre-emptive strike.)


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