I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Also, is there a good web site with tool reviews.

Thanks everyone,

John

"John Pilhoefer" writes:
I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

snip

I gave up on Craftsman.

IMHO, add less than $200 and get a decent contractor's saw.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

On Thu, 27 May 2004 02:07:44 GMT, "John Pilhoefer"
wrote:

I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Also, is there a good web site with tool reviews.

Thanks everyone,

John

Doesn't look too bad, But never having seen it in person I wouldn't
guess as to its value, I like the rear extension. But what the heck is
a "Leitz variable-pitch blade"? Variable-pitch tablesaw blades???
Anybody ever use one?

Zeke
Change com to net for e-mail

The motor is pretty small (15A), but otherwise it looks like a steal at $600
if it is in perfect condition. It is less than $1.50/pound!

On Thu, 27 May 2004 02:07:44 GMT, "John Pilhoefer"
wrote:

I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Also, is there a good web site with tool reviews.

Thanks everyone,

John




it looks like a real saw. I'd guess it's a taiwanese or mainland
chinese cabinet saw.

it's probably a decent piece of machinery. $600 is probably a good
deal.

John Pilhoefer asks:

I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

It is one Sears new Craftsman saws, not even formally announced yet, so you'll
have a hard time finding reviews.

Retail on the saw is $849.99.

Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

"John Pilhoefer" wrote in message
...
I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Biesemeyer makes two grades of fence (both good) and from what I can see,
this is not their "commercial" version. What makes a fence "commercial"
anyway? Sort of subjective.

It does have a closed base, but I'd hesitate to all it a cabinet saw. It is
belt drive, but the traditional cabinet saw has three belts and a 3 hp
motor. This has unknown number of belts and a 1 3/4 hp motor.

The rear extension may be nice to have if you don't have to add another
outfeed table. .

The right side table board looks cheesy, but it does have some cast iron in
the right. I'd put in a larger board and a couple of legs.

It may be a very good saw for the money, but it is not to be compared to a
Unisaw in spite of the cosmetics. Just be aware of what you are buying.
Ed

"Zeke" wrote in message
But what the heck is
a "Leitz variable-pitch blade"? Variable-pitch tablesaw blades???


Maybe it picks up different amount of pitch every time you cut some pine????

Ed Pawlowski responds:

It does have a closed base, but I'd hesitate to all it a cabinet saw. It is
belt drive, but the traditional cabinet saw has three belts and a 3 hp
motor. This has unknown number of belts and a 1 3/4 hp motor.

Sears doesn't call it a cabinet saw. They say it has a "cabinet-style stand".
For basic info, the current PM 66 uses two belts on 3 and 5 HP motors. There is
no need, in almost any case, for more than a single belt on a 1-3/4 HP motor.

The right side table board looks cheesy, but it does have some cast iron in
the right. I'd put in a larger board and a couple of legs

It doesn't really look any cheesier than the particleboard extensions on Jet
and Delta cabinet saws.

Sears does state it's a Biese commercial fence in their catalog blurb.

I'll get a chance to at least look at the saw in a couple weeks. I'm very
interested in how it looks and works, as the current 3 contractors' saws in the
Craftsman line are major departures from what has gone before in both
apeparance and features.

Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

I suspect someone in Craftsman R & D found out about this group's
opinion of their products...

+ It looks like one helluva bang for the buck. The fence is at least
one third of the asking price and one huge reason why I like this saw.
Sliding miter fence is cool too. Dust collection should be 100%
better than any contractors saw. You'll pay sales tax, but there
won't be any freight charges to ship it.

- It will probably need general tweaking from the boxes with the right
instruments. Motor could be larger, but I bet most guys would be
happy with it though (Wire it for 240V). Get some friends to help
move it, it ain't no toy. Fence capacity could be larger 48".

Do they have one setup on display? I'd peer over everything and fool
with it and if I still liked it, I'd jump on it. If you buy it,
please give us your review! AND tell us how to get it for $600!!!

Good luck,
SS

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
Sears doesn't call it a cabinet saw. They say it has a "cabinet-style
stand".
For basic info, the current PM 66 uses two belts on 3 and 5 HP motors.
There is
no need, in almost any case, for more than a single belt on a 1-3/4 HP
motor.

Right, but I'll bet a lot of people will make assumptions that since it
looks like a $1500+ cabinet saw it must be as good as one.


Sears does state it's a Biese commercial fence in their catalog blurb.

Yes, but that does not make it the Bies commercial version. Look at how far
the fence extends beyond the table top. I don't think it is the real deal,
but they give no measurments. The "home shop" version is 36" long while the
commercial version is 42" or 48" as well as longer rails. I think they are
taking some liberties here as consdering any Bies fence to be a commercial
version since it is better than the usual lightweight stuff on most low end
contractor saws.



I'll get a chance to at least look at the saw in a couple weeks. I'm very
interested in how it looks and works, as the current 3 contractors' saws
in the
Craftsman line are major departures from what has gone before in both
apeparance and features.

When Chevy came out with the big block 348 ci in. engine, the hood
designation had two crossed flags above the "V" . I know a couple of guys
that put the emblems on a car with the straight six. Looked just like the
348 when you stood on the curb, but still ran like a 6 with Powerglide. I
think that is what we may have here. it may be a good basic contractor's
saw, but that is all it will be no matter how fancy the cabinet. Unless, of
course, you paint some flames on it.
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"John Pilhoefer" wrote in message
...
I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600)
new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Biesemeyer makes two grades of fence (both good) and from what I can see,
this is not their "commercial" version. What makes a fence "commercial"
anyway? Sort of subjective.

It does have a closed base, but I'd hesitate to all it a cabinet saw. It
is
belt drive, but the traditional cabinet saw has three belts and a 3 hp
motor. This has unknown number of belts and a 1 3/4 hp motor.

The rear extension may be nice to have if you don't have to add another
outfeed table. .

The right side table board looks cheesy, but it does have some cast iron
in
the right. I'd put in a larger board and a couple of legs.

It may be a very good saw for the money, but it is not to be compared to a
Unisaw in spite of the cosmetics. Just be aware of what you are buying.
Ed


How does one pick up a new Sears $949 table saw for ~$600? Where do you
pick it up, in the back of the warehouse in the dead of night? BTW, the
fence looks exactly like my "commercial" Biesmeyer, only shorter. Sounds
like a heck of a good deal to me, if legal.

Gary

Ed Pawlowski writes:

When Chevy came out with the big block 348 ci in. engine, the hood
designation had two crossed flags above the "V" . I know a couple of guys
that put the emblems on a car with the straight six. Looked just like the
348 when you stood on the curb, but still ran like a 6 with Powerglide. I
think that is what we may have here. it may be a good basic contractor's
saw, but that is all it will be no matter how fancy the cabinet. Unless, of
course, you paint some flames on it.

I remember the big block 348. It wasn't much when it came out. Maybe it
transmogrified later, but in '58, it was junk compared to the small block
265/283/327. I know it was popular on short track racers by '60, but don't
recall how much winning it did.

Anyway, I think Sears aim here is to upgrade the cabinet saw. They're already
importing 2 "industrial" level saws at prices closer to Unisaw and Jet prices.
These 3 new saws seem to me to be a tap on hybrid models already put out by Jet
and DeWalt. Same HP, same basic configuration, with enclosed motors. Knocking a
saw for not equaling a Unisaw at twice the price seems a bit unrealistic.

As far as the fence goes, I'll be able to check that out in 2 weeks. From the
small photo, it looks as if it might be a true commercial Biese, but that
really is impossible to determine fromo that small a shot. Is that overhang 9"
or 13"? I can't tell at that angle. Is Biese making a special "commercial
version" for Sears? I don't know. I may not be able to find out, either. If TSA
doesn't confiscate it, I'll have a tape measure in my camera bag, too. I should
also be able to check overall quality, trunnion materials, whether or not the
pulleys are machined, type of belt, etc.
Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Ed wrote:
it may be a good basic contractor's
saw, but that is all it will be no matter how fancy the cabinet. Unless,
of
course, you paint some flames on it.


Knocking a
saw for not equaling a Unisaw at twice the price seems a bit unrealistic.

I'm not knocking, it, just pointing out that it is a contractor saw in
cabinet saw dressing. Same as the Jet Supersaw and the DeWalt.

My concern is that they call the Bies a "commercial" grade fence when in
fact it may not be the real deal. I have a Beis and it is a great fence,
but the one I have is not the "commercial" model as they define it.

Picture this. MaryJane Burfl is out Christmas shopping and knows that her
hubby has been lusting for a (fill in major brand) cabinet saw. She spots
the saw in Sears and says to the kids "look, it is the fancy saw that dadddy
wants for only $800. Lets get it for him so he will have a hardon when he
sees it" "Won't he be surprised at the great deal I got" Yes, he will be
speechless, I'm sure.

As I stated, it may be a good saw, just not comparable to a real cabinet saw
but the marketing practices here are bordering on deceptive.
Ed



As far as the fence goes, I'll be able to check that out in 2 weeks. From
the
small photo, it looks as if it might be a true commercial Biese, but that
really is impossible to determine fromo that small a shot. Is that
overhang 9"
or 13"? I can't tell at that angle. Is Biese making a special "commercial
version" for Sears? I don't know. I may not be able to find out, either.
If TSA
doesn't confiscate it, I'll have a tape measure in my camera bag, too. I
should
also be able to check overall quality, trunnion materials, whether or not
the
pulleys are machined, type of belt, etc.
Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose
Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600)
new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Biesemeyer makes two grades of fence (both good) and from what I can see,
this is not their "commercial" version. What makes a fence "commercial"
anyway? Sort of subjective.

A commercial fence, in addition to a 42" vs. 36" fence bar, has a 2"x3"
front rail tube v 1.5"x2.5". They both come with lifetime warranties for
home use, though. It does appear to be the commercial version to me, it's
what I have on my DW746.

It does have a closed base, but I'd hesitate to all it a cabinet saw. It
is
belt drive, but the traditional cabinet saw has three belts and a 3 hp
motor. This has unknown number of belts and a 1 3/4 hp motor.

The rear extension may be nice to have if you don't have to add another
outfeed table. .

The right side table board looks cheesy, but it does have some cast iron
in
the right. I'd put in a larger board and a couple of legs.

It may be a very good saw for the money, but it is not to be compared to a
Unisaw in spite of the cosmetics. Just be aware of what you are buying.

I'd say it will be comparable to the DeWalt DW746 and the Jet SuperSaw. And
that fence is worth over $300 by itself, so I'd say that's a good deal. I'd
be interested to know whether the trunnions attach to the cabinet as in a
true cabinet saw or to the bottom of the table as in a contractor's saw (and
the DW746 at least, I don't know about the Jet).

Charlie

Ed Pawlowski writes:

As I stated, it may be a good saw, just not comparable to a real cabinet saw
but the marketing practices here are bordering on deceptive.

Less so than in the past, I think. But, then, IME, marketing practices almost
always border on the deceptive.

Charlie Self
"Bore, n.: A person who talks when you wish him to listen." Ambrose Bierce, The
Devil's Dictionary

"Charlie Mraz" wrote in message
...
I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600)
new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Biesemeyer makes two grades of fence (both good) and from what I can
see,
this is not their "commercial" version. What makes a fence "commercial"
anyway? Sort of subjective.

A commercial fence, in addition to a 42" vs. 36" fence bar, has a 2"x3"
front rail tube v 1.5"x2.5". They both come with lifetime warranties for
home use, though. It does appear to be the commercial version to me, it's
what I have on my DW746.

It does have a closed base, but I'd hesitate to all it a cabinet saw.
It
is
belt drive, but the traditional cabinet saw has three belts and a 3 hp
motor. This has unknown number of belts and a 1 3/4 hp motor.

The rear extension may be nice to have if you don't have to add another
outfeed table. .

The right side table board looks cheesy, but it does have some cast iron
in
the right. I'd put in a larger board and a couple of legs.

It may be a very good saw for the money, but it is not to be compared to
a
Unisaw in spite of the cosmetics. Just be aware of what you are buying.

I'd say it will be comparable to the DeWalt DW746 and the Jet SuperSaw.
And
that fence is worth over $300 by itself, so I'd say that's a good deal.
I'd
be interested to know whether the trunnions attach to the cabinet as in a
true cabinet saw or to the bottom of the table as in a contractor's saw
(and
the DW746 at least, I don't know about the Jet).

Charlie


I think its a commercial fence. The table with a 12" extension is 48.5"
deep, thus without the extension is 36" deep. You can clearly see from the
picture the fence is considerably longer than the 36" table. Biesmeyer Hone
fences for the Sears saws are 36" long, while the commecial versions start
at 42". Thus I say its a commercial fence.

On Thu, 27 May 2004 17:29:11 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:
I'm not knocking, it, just pointing out that it is a contractor saw in
cabinet saw dressing. Same as the Jet Supersaw and the DeWalt.

How can you make that determination without seeing the saw in person?
The ad states "Heavy-duty, cast-iron, base-mounted trunnion system for
maximum stability and easy adjustments" I've never known a contractor
saw to have the trunions mounted to the base. When I was struggling
with nothing but a benchtop I would have been very happy if SWMBO had
shown up with one of these. But, go figure, I'm very pleased with my
Craftsman RAS too.




Zeke
Change com to net for e-mail

"Gary" wrote in message news:c95ba0
I think its a commercial fence. The table with a 12" extension is 48.5"
deep, thus without the extension is 36" deep. You can clearly see from
the
picture the fence is considerably longer than the 36" table. Biesmeyer
Hone
fences for the Sears saws are 36" long, while the commecial versions start
at 42". Thus I say its a commercial fence.

I don't see where it is a 12" extension in the write-ups and specifications.
I tried to scale it and I come up with about a 16" extension on a standard
27" table. Look at the blade placement and it sure does not look like it
would be a 36" table. Thus, I say it is NOT a commercial fence.

It does say it has "12" tableboard, rear ext. table". Note the comma after
tableboard. It does have 12" extension wings also, thus a total of 24" to
the right. It also falls short of the 30" cut on the right, thus my earlier
comment about the cheesy tableboard.
Ed

"Zeke" wrote in message

How can you make that determination without seeing the saw in person?
The ad states "Heavy-duty, cast-iron, base-mounted trunnion system for
maximum stability and easy adjustments" I've never known a contractor
saw to have the trunions mounted to the base. When I was struggling
with nothing but a benchtop I would have been very happy if SWMBO had
shown up with one of these. But, go figure, I'm very pleased with my
Craftsman RAS too.

Maybe you are right. It could be a General 350 clone at a really good
price. As I said, it may be a good saw for the money, but I think they are
trying to market it as something it is not.

I would have been happy with it also compared to my old saw.
Ed

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Gary" wrote in message news:c95ba0
I think its a commercial fence. The table with a 12" extension is 48.5"
deep, thus without the extension is 36" deep. You can clearly see from
the
picture the fence is considerably longer than the 36" table. Biesmeyer
Hone
fences for the Sears saws are 36" long, while the commecial versions
start
at 42". Thus I say its a commercial fence.

I don't see where it is a 12" extension in the write-ups and
specifications.
I tried to scale it and I come up with about a 16" extension on a standard
27" table. Look at the blade placement and it sure does not look like it
would be a 36" table. Thus, I say it is NOT a commercial fence.

It does say it has "12" tableboard, rear ext. table". Note the comma
after
tableboard. It does have 12" extension wings also, thus a total of 24" to
the right. It also falls short of the 30" cut on the right, thus my
earlier
comment about the cheesy tableboard.
Ed



Look again. In the full product description tab it says "Cast iron table
and 12 in. wide extension wings with 12 in. table board, rear ext. table".
Under product specs it says
"Table Dimensions w/Extensions 48-1/2 x 56 in. "
Thus 48.5" - 12" = 36.5"

"Gary" wrote in message
Look again. In the full product description tab it says "Cast iron table
and 12 in. wide extension wings with 12 in. table board, rear ext. table".
Under product specs it says
"Table Dimensions w/Extensions 48-1/2 x 56 in. "
Thus 48.5" - 12" = 36.5"


I looked the first time. Look for the comma. Yes, the table is 48 1/2"
overall, but the extension table is not 12" from what I read.

What is the grammatical difference between:

a.. Cast iron table and 12 in. wide extension wings with 12 in. table board,
rear ext. table

Cast iron table and 12" wide extension wings with 12 in. table board and it
also has a rear extension.

That is what the comma is saying. It changes how you read things. First
line was copied from the web page.

Read the description in context.
I bought apples, bananas, peaches, and cream.
I bought apples, bananas, peaches and cream

In the first line I bought four items, in the second I bought three items.
Peaches and cream is a packaged item.


In the first part, it designates a 12" extension, the cast iron they talk
about, then there is an added 12" table board, making it 24" total extension
on that side. Then there is a comma. The comma designates a new item in the
listing, in this case a rear extension table. They give no dimension for a
rear extension table. They give no dimension for the basis saw with no
extensions. They do say that there is a left cast iron of 12", a right cast
iron of 12" a right table board of 13" making up 36 of the 56 inch total.
thus the basic width is 20". Standard saws start out at about 20 x 27. Look
at the basic saw on the Grizzly web site an it may show what I mean. You
have to add side extension. Most saw have the.

A table board is NOT a rear extension. I stand by my original comments on
the fence size. The Bies fence, compared to fences typically found on low
or medium priced table saws maybe can be considered commercial quality, I
guess, but I do not think they are giving you the Bies Commercial version as
described on the Bies web page and sales literature.

Ed

On Thu, 27 May 2004 13:14:46 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


"John Pilhoefer" wrote in message
...
I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Biesemeyer makes two grades of fence (both good) and from what I can see,
this is not their "commercial" version. What makes a fence "commercial"
anyway? Sort of subjective.

this saw advertises the commercial fence.
A tool store here in town had a demo with the commercial and home shop
models side by side. tha commercial fence weighs about twice as much
as the home shop fence, is considerably more rigid and costs quite a
bit more.





It does have a closed base, but I'd hesitate to all it a cabinet saw. It is
belt drive, but the traditional cabinet saw has three belts and a 3 hp
motor.



It says it has a cabinet mounted trunnion, which makes it a cabinet
saw in my book.






This has unknown number of belts and a 1 3/4 hp motor.


the motor is small and it only rips 30". And note that this 1-3/4 HP
motor is searz' "Maximum Developed" horsepower.




The rear extension may be nice to have if you don't have to add another
outfeed table. .

The right side table board looks cheesy, but it does have some cast iron in
the right. I'd put in a larger board and a couple of legs.

It may be a very good saw for the money, but it is not to be compared to a
Unisaw in spite of the cosmetics. Just be aware of what you are buying.
Ed

There is a small review of this new model in American Woodworker, #
108, July 2004, which just arrived in my mailbox yesterday. Some
quotes: "Craftsman started from the ground up... redesigning its
10-in. tablesaws... Sears designers did their homework... listening to
customers and addressing their concerns.... All three look like
cabinet saws... In fact their trunnion systems more closely resembles
the type found on contractor saws than on a conventional contractor
or hybrid saw... more rigid.. All are left tilt machines... "

They actually look pretty nice to me...

"John Pilhoefer" wrote in message ...
I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Also, is there a good web site with tool reviews.

Thanks everyone,

John

You have a $300 fence. Is the saw worth $300. I think Yes.

Check the pulleys and belt. If it has a single belt you might look at
the linkbelt




On Thu, 27 May 2004 02:07:44 GMT, "John Pilhoefer"
wrote:

I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600) new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Also, is there a good web site with tool reviews.

Thanks everyone,

John

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"John Pilhoefer" wrote in message
...
snip
Biesemeyer makes two grades of fence (both good) and from what I can see,
this is not their "commercial" version. What makes a fence "commercial"
anyway? Sort of subjective.

Hi Ed,

Hey, if you'd like to provide me enough of the particulars so I can ask The
Question for you right at the horse' mouth I'd be happy to make a stop and
ask it for you. I drive right by the Biesemeyer office every time I go to a
particular Wally Whirled anyway so it wouldn't be a great bother. (It might
even be a good excuse to stop in and take a look!)

I'm not kidding -- the Biesemeyer place really is just a couple of miles up
the street and right next to the Junk Yard along the RR tracks. Just phrase
your question so I don't embarrass myself (I mean so that They Can Figure
Out What You're Asking) and I'll be happy to show it to them and relay their
answer.

Now please don't take this wrong; I'm juat offering to be helpful :-)

-- Steve
www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
Penury is the mother of invention!




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"Steve" wrote in message
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

Biesemeyer makes two grades of fence (both good) and from what I can
see,
this is not their "commercial" version. What makes a fence "commercial"
anyway? Sort of subjective.

Hi Ed,

Hey, if you'd like to provide me enough of the particulars so I can ask
The
Question for you right at the horse' mouth I'd be happy to make a stop and
ask it for you. I drive right by the Biesemeyer office every time I go to
a
particular Wally Whirled anyway so it wouldn't be a great bother. (It
might
even be a good excuse to stop in and take a look!)

I'm not kidding -- the Biesemeyer place really is just a couple of miles
up
the street and right next to the Junk Yard along the RR tracks. Just
phrase
your question so I don't embarrass myself (I mean so that They Can Figure
Out What You're Asking) and I'll be happy to show it to them and relay
their
answer.

Now please don't take this wrong; I'm juat offering to be helpful :-)

I know what the Biesemeyer people call a commercial fence. It is larger and
heavier duty that the home shop fence. It is 42 or 48" long as opposed to
the 36" that I have. Commercial shops are more likely to cut large panels
all day than you or I are.

My question is more about what others, such as Craftsman, consider a
commercial fence. They put the Bies home shop fence on a saw and call it
"commercial" grade. Slick marketing? OTOH, it is a very good fence.

I appreciate the offer, but I think Sears marketing should answer this
question.
Ed

The home tube is 1.5" vert and the commercial tube is 2". The right
extension table is is clearly more than 1.5" and the tube appears to
be roughly same vertical thickness of the ext table
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message .. .
"Gary" wrote in message
Look again. In the full product description tab it says "Cast iron table
and 12 in. wide extension wings with 12 in. table board, rear ext. table".
Under product specs it says
"Table Dimensions w/Extensions 48-1/2 x 56 in. "
Thus 48.5" - 12" = 36.5"


I looked the first time. Look for the comma. Yes, the table is 48 1/2"
overall, but the extension table is not 12" from what I read.

What is the grammatical difference between:

a.. Cast iron table and 12 in. wide extension wings with 12 in. table board,
rear ext. table

Cast iron table and 12" wide extension wings with 12 in. table board and it
also has a rear extension.

That is what the comma is saying. It changes how you read things. First
line was copied from the web page.

Read the description in context.
I bought apples, bananas, peaches, and cream.
I bought apples, bananas, peaches and cream

In the first line I bought four items, in the second I bought three items.
Peaches and cream is a packaged item.


In the first part, it designates a 12" extension, the cast iron they talk
about, then there is an added 12" table board, making it 24" total extension
on that side. Then there is a comma. The comma designates a new item in the
listing, in this case a rear extension table. They give no dimension for a
rear extension table. They give no dimension for the basis saw with no
extensions. They do say that there is a left cast iron of 12", a right cast
iron of 12" a right table board of 13" making up 36 of the 56 inch total.
thus the basic width is 20". Standard saws start out at about 20 x 27. Look
at the basic saw on the Grizzly web site an it may show what I mean. You
have to add side extension. Most saw have the.

A table board is NOT a rear extension. I stand by my original comments on
the fence size. The Bies fence, compared to fences typically found on low
or medium priced table saws maybe can be considered commercial quality, I
guess, but I do not think they are giving you the Bies Commercial version as
described on the Bies web page and sales literature.

Ed

I stopped by Sears today and looked at the saw being discussed. The table
has one 12" solid steel extension on either side of the table. There was a
cheap looking mdf extension added to the one on the right side. There was
also a stamped steel table extending out the back approximately 24", and it
was also about 24" wide. It was hinged to the rear of the saw and had a
single collapsible brace that allowed it to be lowered to a vertical
position behind the saw. It didn't look like it was very strong, but it
would probably work.

The motor had a single flat belt that was approximately 5/8" wide and maybe
1/8" thick. Looked pretty skimpy to me, but those types of belts are pretty
strong. I would think it would be smooth running, though. I remember
someone wanting to know if the trunnion was mounted to the table, or the
cabinet (I think that is the way it was posed). A sign said "base mounted
trunnion" but it sure looked like it was bolted to the bottom of the table.
I guess they mean the base of the table. I did not see anything bolted or
attached to the cabinet except the table, but my knees started giving out
and I had to stand back up. The mechanism was definitely heavier than the
open stand model that I have, but I would guess it is a far cry from some of
the bigger saws. I have never seen the guts of a high priced cabinet saw.

The Biesemeyer fence does not say anything about being a commercial version,
but someone else said that the commercial fence was 2" tall and the home
fence was only 1.5" tall. This one was 2" tall and stuck out passed the
rear of the table about 10-12". A little later I stopped in at a Rockler's
(it just happened to be on the way home) and the fence on the Sears saw
looked to be the same fence that was on the new Delta X5. Even had the same
labels on it. By the way, the "tape" showed 31" to the right but I don't
think the fence could use all of that without falling off the end. Could
probably get 28". I couldn't slide the fence over to find out because there
was something else behind the saw that blocked it.

It also came with a miter gauge that had an extruded aluminum extension on
it. Maybe 18-20" worth. Don't remember if it extended further, or whether
or not it had a built-in stop block. And it also had an included hold-down.
Other than that I didn't pay it much attention. If you would be doing some
serious work that required a good, solid, accurate miter gauge, you would
probably want to replace it anyway.

Didn't have a lot of time to examine it further, and I don't think the sales
people would have been very helpful anyway. It is worth the $899 price tag?
My personal opinion is no, but I'm really a cheap *******. $600??? Yeah,
probably.


Wayne



"brad" wrote in message
om...
There is a small review of this new model in American Woodworker, #
108, July 2004, which just arrived in my mailbox yesterday. Some
quotes: "Craftsman started from the ground up... redesigning its
10-in. tablesaws... Sears designers did their homework... listening to
customers and addressing their concerns.... All three look like
cabinet saws... In fact their trunnion systems more closely resembles
the type found on contractor saws than on a conventional contractor
or hybrid saw... more rigid.. All are left tilt machines... "

They actually look pretty nice to me...

"John Pilhoefer" wrote in message
...
I have the opportunity to pick up this table saw pretty cheap (~$600)
new.

http://tinyurl.com/2548w

I can't seem to find any info on this saw.

I does have a Biesemeyer commercial fence.

Any comments.

Also, is there a good web site with tool reviews.

Thanks everyone,

John

No One N writes:

I have never seen the guts of a high priced cabinet saw.

You've got a treat coming. I spent some time last week gazing into the innards
of a Powermatic 66 and a General.

Charlie Self
"The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the
exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

--

"Yahoo" wrote in message
om...
The home tube is 1.5" vert and the commercial tube is 2". The right
extension table is is clearly more than 1.5" and the tube appears to
be roughly same vertical thickness of the ext table

Sorry, but you are wrong. I have the Home shop version of the Biesemeyer
fence and the tube is 2". I don't know what the commercial version is, but
my ruler says 2" for the home shop.

Thank you for proving me correct on the fence..
Ed

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

--

"Yahoo" wrote in message
om...
The home tube is 1.5" vert and the commercial tube is 2". The right
extension table is is clearly more than 1.5" and the tube appears to
be roughly same vertical thickness of the ext table

Sorry, but you are wrong. I have the Home shop version of the Biesemeyer
fence and the tube is 2". I don't know what the commercial version is, but
my ruler says 2" for the home shop.

I don't know about the Biesemeyer fences but with the Jet line the difference
between the "Homeshop" and the "Commercial" fence is the thickness of the steel
walls of the tubing in both the fence and the front rail.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Sorry, but you are wrong. I have the Home shop version of the Biesemeyer
fence and the tube is 2". I don't know what the commercial version is, but
my ruler says 2" for the home shop.

Nope, the home shop fence uses 1.5" high tubes. I just measured mine.
Sounds like you don't know what you've got. Lucky you.


Zeke
Change com to net for e-mail

"Zeke" wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Sorry, but you are wrong. I have the Home shop version of the
Biesemeyer
fence and the tube is 2". I don't know what the commercial version is,
but
my ruler says 2" for the home shop.

Nope, the home shop fence uses 1.5" high tubes. I just measured mine.
Sounds like you don't know what you've got. Lucky you.


Zeke

I just re-measured and I stand corrected. See below the information from the
Biesemeyer web page. I had the commercial fence and did not know it. It is
what came standard on myDelta contractor's saw.



What are the material dimensions of the Home Shop system?

Guide tube
Front rail

Rear rail
.083" gauge
1/4" gauge

3/16" gauge



What are the material dimensions of the Commercial system?

Guide tube
Front rail

Rear rail
.083" gauge
1/4" gauge

3/16" gauge
measures 2" x 3"

measures 1 ½" x 2 ½"

You didn't seem to know you had a commercial size fence above

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. com...

"Steve" wrote in message
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message

Biesemeyer makes two grades of fence (both good) and from what I can
see,
this is not their "commercial" version. What makes a fence
"commercial"
anyway? Sort of subjective.

Hi Ed,

Hey, if you'd like to provide me enough of the particulars so I can ask
The
Question for you right at the horse' mouth I'd be happy to make a stop
and
ask it for you. I drive right by the Biesemeyer office every time I go
to
a
particular Wally Whirled anyway so it wouldn't be a great bother. (It
might
even be a good excuse to stop in and take a look!)

I'm not kidding -- the Biesemeyer place really is just a couple of miles
up
the street and right next to the Junk Yard along the RR tracks. Just
phrase
your question so I don't embarrass myself (I mean so that They Can
Figure
Out What You're Asking) and I'll be happy to show it to them and relay
their
answer.

Now please don't take this wrong; I'm juat offering to be helpful :-)

I know what the Biesemeyer people call a commercial fence. It is larger
and
heavier duty that the home shop fence. It is 42 or 48" long as opposed to
the 36" that I have. Commercial shops are more likely to cut large panels
all day than you or I are.

My question is more about what others, such as Craftsman, consider a
commercial fence. They put the Bies home shop fence on a saw and call it
"commercial" grade. Slick marketing? OTOH, it is a very good fence.

I appreciate the offer, but I think Sears marketing should answer this
question.
Ed

"joey" wrote in message
news:hz7uc.10536$pt3.10084@attbi_s03...
You didn't seem to know you had a commercial size fence above


You're right. It was brought to my attention yesterday. The dimensions
were not easily found on the Biesemeyer web page, but after others mentioned
it, I finally found them.
Ed